The Ramsey Show - You Have to Know Where You Are Financially to Know Where You're Going

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

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Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Delaney are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships Tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. This is The Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money and your profession and in your relationships. Alongside the incomparable, the delightful George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you all. George, you ready to go today? I'm...

It's a Friday. You're not mailing it in. No. I don't even know how to do that. I'm a millennial. Come on. I don't mail anything. There you go.

That's a very good point. You don't even know what a stamp is. I'll explain that to him during the commercial break, but we're here for you America. 828-825-5225. 828-825-5225. Now, we're going to coach you on saving your money, investing your money, making more money. That's what George and I do together,

and I warn you ahead of time, we have fun. This is serious stuff, but we also have fun while we're doing it. Gotta bring some levity to it. Yeah, or else we get bored, and we don't want that. By the way, great looking studio audience today here on the other side of the glass. So we'd love to see you sometime.

If you want to come join and watch the show live, we'd love to see you. All right, let's get started. 888-825-5225. Again, is the phone number, Rob, starts us off in Hartford, Connecticut. Bob, oh, excuse me, Rob, how can we help today? Hi, George, hi Ken. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up? So, I got married about six months ago and I'm trying to dig us out of this ginormous hole of our prior divorces, some poor decisions, and a severe case of can't say no to wife itis. Hold on a second,

what was that? A severe case of what? Can't say no to wife itis. Wow. I liked it. I thought that deserved a... You ran through that too quick. Can't say no to wife-itis. I've got a similar case. It's called can't say no to daughter-itis. My 16-year-old's got me wrapped around her finger. I really struggle. I don't think insurance covers those. Sorry, guys. It doesn't. Yeah. No, unfortunately. It's a pre-existing condition. Sorry guys. It doesn't. No, unfortunately. It's a pre-existing condition. So, but yeah, so, um, long story short, we're probably about 250k in the hole right now, not including the house.

Part of that is, like I said, divorces hit both of us pretty hard. I also got in a car accident in December and then lost my job the next day. So I had like three or four months span that was really tough on us. But I am trying to, you know, we, we make decent income, so we have enough, we have a little bit of margins. So I'm starting obviously baby step two, um, trying to get going on that. But the thing that kills me is, I understand the concept of the smallest to largest, but the problem is almost all of our small debts are all 0% and we have large debts that are 28% and it drives me nuts that I'm going to spend, you know, 12 months,

paying off 15, $20,000 worth of zero percent while the 30% is accruing a thousand dollars a month in interest. And I was thinking, you know, we can take a HELOC, cut that weight by 70%. It adds another $800 to a thousand000 that we can roll into the snowball and get done eight months to a year faster. Rob, you are rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, my friend.

This is not gonna be the solution you're looking for. And I know you can crunch the numbers and see how much you're paying in interest, and that should make you angry. But here's the deal, the people that actually get out of debt, they don't just move around their debts and get new debts to cover the old debts

and pay off the big debt before the, they just do the debt snowball and get so frustrated and so angry that they're willing to work as much as it takes to get rid of the next debt and get rid of the next debt, freeing up the next payment. And you're gonna lose all of that momentum trying to tackle this giant mountain

of the biggest debts with the biggest interest rate. Yeah. So the question is, what are you willing to do and sacrifice to use your savings and future income to get out of this? Yeah, well I- Are there stuff we can sell on this 250K? Are there cars involved?

I recently sold my video game collection for like $5,000. Hey, that's a start. But that was painful. Well, you got no time to play video games. You're gonna have four jobs for the next three years. Yeah, I'm looking to get another job to try and bring in some more income to tackle this. Now, you kept saying,

I'm gonna start the debt snowball. Where is your wife in all of this? She's there. She is in the other room. No, I mean, is she a willing participant in this process? She's in the other room. Or is she like, hey, knock yourself out, trying to get rid of this debt. I'm gonna go over here buying stuff. Is she a willing participant in this process? She's in the other room. Or is she like, hey, knock yourself out trying to get rid of this debt.

I'm going to go over here buying stuff. Yes. She's actually volunteered to get a second job as well. She did that before with her ex-husband who had no ambition at all, so I don't really want her to have to do that again. Well, why? You're projecting something. If she's willing to get a second job, the answer is thanks, babe.

That's awesome. What are you, the knight in shining armor for the last deadbeat? The second job was not what... You guys gotta work together on this. Yeah, her last marriage was not crushed because of her second job. It was crushed because of a lot of other reasons and a lack of unity. And what this shows me is that you are actually creating unity, because both of you have skin in the game and you're walking through this together.

Can we dig in the numbers, George? Please. All right. I'm going to facilitate. I love this. Because you're the money guru. All right, Rob, I want you to just walk, George, through a couple of the, let's just do the lowest, the smallest two debts in the debt snowball and tell us what the minimum

monthly payment is on those. Walk us through those. The smallest two are, I think my Apple card is like $500 and I think there's a Samsung card that's like $1500. Both of those are at 0%. Right, so what's your minimum payments on those? $58 and $133. Both of those are at 0%. Right. So what's your minimum payments on those? 58 and 133. All right. So now let's go the next level up. What's the small, the third, let's go up this, let's go, you know what I'm trying to say, I'm struggling. It's a Friday, folks. What are the next two, the next two debts?

Yeah. I mean, we got like 2,200 and then it starts to jump from the $2,200 we got it goes up to about $6,000. Okay so what are the minimum payments on the $2,200 and the $6,000? $2,200 is well that's a that's another Apple card so the way they do that is installments on your phones. I don't care I don't care I just want to know what the monthly $400 a month you're paying towards that. These are for iPhones? For that one is yeah. I think we can sell some iPhones. We can rock some iPhone 8s. Right? I theoretically yes. I think there's only two payments left on it. So you said it's 2200 bucks., it's more than two payments. That's a whole lot of money to

me, but hey, what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to get George in here, George, I'm trying to show him that's $600 in payments on the first three debts. I knew you would pick up the ball if I passed it to you. Do you see the real momentum here, Rob? Like we're talking about real savings quicker than trying to pay off the other cards. I mean the high interest stuff. Like you need some momentum in this deal. Well yeah I understand that. I wasn't really saying I'm going to switch to paying off the highest one because I know that doesn't work. I know what you said. You said you wanted to do the HELOC for it. We get it. But we're just trying to help you get some momentum. I'm not...

The momentum is the issue. Dave has proven this for decades through people who followed it. It is about momentum. That's what we're trying to help you understand. George? Yeah, behavior is what got us here. Not interest rates, not math. And so I know it's, the interest rate is the easiest thing to get mad at instead of looking in the mirror and being mad at Rob. And man, you you are dealt some cards that nobody should be dealt with, but here we are on the other side and the only way out is through it. And that's the Debt Snowball Method. So hang on the line. I'm going to send you guys my book, Breaking Free from Broke, along

with Financial Peace University. You and your wife sit down, watch all the lessons, listen to the audio book, read the book, get fired up, get five jobs. And if your marriage isn't better at the end of this thing, then we've done our jobs wrong because I'm telling you that's the kind of unity that the debt snowball creates. Yeah. Alright, quick break I'm gonna try on George's bomber jacket see if it fits and we'll be back. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey listen up everyone is at risk of identity theft. I don't care if you're a hermit living off the grid listening to the show on a battery-powered radio. All of your data collected by every company you've ever done business with lives online. Your bank, your doctor's office,

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Visit zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. to the ramsay show alongside george campbell i can call me thrilled to have you with us to believe eight to five five to two five to believe eight to five to to five let's go to salt lake city utah and sean is joining us there sean how can we help here

i'm currently an ultrasound tech kind of functioning as a traveler so i make pretty good money currently i'm worried that worthwhile to go back to it's assistant school for two years and incur like 125k in debt to make a little more money long term. Okay let's break that down. You you set it up wonderfully. You just I need to get some facts. How much are you making now? So I'll probably make like 3,000 a, so probably like 140 years if I take some time off. So maybe a little less, but somewhere in that ballpark.

So I make good money now. But if I was to go back and be a regular person and not do the travel thing, I'd probably make $80,000 to $90,000. And I'm kind of tired of doing the travel thing, so I'd like to sit down in a spot for a while and keep traveling forever. All right. So if you, let's just fast forward and let's say you got the 125, excuse me, 125,000 in cash to cash flow becoming a physician's assistant, if I heard you correct.

What would be your range of income as a physician's assistant? Probably starting at like 110 and then have to grow from there. Okay. Be my best guess. All right, and Okay, so how long if you weren't allowed to take out a loan? How long would it take you to come up with the money off your current income? We should make it pretty good money. I wrote you down as between 125 and 140 based on how kind of loose you were with that So so I think that's a good range

How long would it take you to cash flow your way to come up with the cash to do it without the loan? Maybe I have no idea. I'd have to sit down and do the crunch numbers probably at least a year. I'd imagine at least like probably two years. Yeah, I was going to say, there's no way you're only making a hundred and- Yeah, I don't own- Go ahead, Sean. Yeah, I don't own a home either. So that's the other thing. I would like to own a home.

Okay, but we got to solve the first problem. So Sean, I want you to take a deep breath and slow down a little bit. I'm going to actually do all the heavy lifting for you and walk you through this, all right? So let me guide you through this. So the first problem we've got to solve is you want to get off the road of being a travel nurse. It's just a quality of life issue. I think that makes a lot of sense. That's the first problem to solve, not the house, correct? True. The house is part of it, but yes, for sure. I know, but I'm helping you by understanding what your priorities are. So that's your priority. So the move for you is, is, well, I'm going to take a pretty significant hit if I don't

have the physician's assistant situation. If I jump back just to traditional nursing, I'm going to take a pretty big hit, correct? Correct. Okay. So we start looking at, okay, when we coach people, we wanna help you come up with a decision, us not tell you what to do. And so we look at, okay, I'm single, I wanna save for a house,

and I wanna get off the road, but I'm making really good money now, I do take a little bit of downtime. So which is the most important goal? Is it to be a physician's assistant and also make around 110? Is that a huge priority for you career-wise? Not the biggest.

I mean, I really like my job currently. It's just more of, I guess, long-term, like what I can do when I'm 60, 65. Yeah. How old are you now? A job that I just turned 40. All right. You're a young guy. Okay. I just turned 40. All right, you're a young guy, okay? So going through these priorities, Sean, I'm going to take the greatest opportunity that

I have to stack cash that would then allow me to set myself up when I am 60. So you don't want to be traveling nurse when you're 60, but you got 20 years to get that physician's assistant degree. So putting yourself in debt right and debt right now, to me, seems completely nonsensical. You know, we're not for debt. You knew that when you called us, but forget our philosophical policy.

I mean, our philosophical beliefs about this. It, I don't care who you are in your position. I just think you've got to be a little bit patient and it just, why put yourself in $125,000 worth of debt when in your case, you don't actually have to. You like your job, you're making really good money. George, I wanna bring you in here, because even if you had a,

even if you weren't anti-debt like we are, it still doesn't make any sense given where he is in his life. And I've been crunching the numbers, Sean, and based on just some quick research, entry-level PA in your area, probably make a 90 grand, which is what you said you'd make just getting off the road.

Now, long-term, you could make closer to 110, 130, but this is not a significant jump to go 125 grand into debt or to even cash flow. Well, he's actually gonna go backwards from where he is now. Exactly, so I would, to Ken's point, be very patient about this and just stack up cash and live like you're a broke college student right now.

Cause if you can put away, you know, 40 grand a year, in two years, this thing's cashflowed. And then two years from that, you're a PA. And so, you've got time. That's right. Sean, let's play this out. You do what George just said, you're only two years of patience there.

And then now you're stacking cash for the house. That's true. And I also saw in-state cost, for example, University of Utah, in-state cost should be closer to 82 grand for this program. So where was the 125? Was that a specific university you were wanting to go to?

That's a specific university just because my degrees are old and there's not very many places I will accept my credits since they're so old. Have you checked all around? Like have you went to the most affordable options and what will you take my credits? Can I get into this program? I feel like there's some more homework to be done.

Yeah, I've checked quite extensively and I have two bachelor's degrees previously. They're just, my credits are so old. So what if I applied like say Salt Lake, I'd have to take numerous classes over again, like chemistry, O chem, and I'm good at those, et cetera. No. I just wanna say,

if we can save 40 grand just by doing some homework and research, I'd rather do that than just say yes to the first one that takes me and use student loan debt to do it. Correct. No, I totally with you. I just, my options are limited to go back to school based upon my educational path and how distant it is as far as the medical field goes.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we've told you what we would do. We just want to save you that burden of debt. You just don't need it. Nobody needs debt. You really don't need it in this situation. Let's go to Scott in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Scott, how can we help?

Hello, Scott. Hi, how can we help? Hello, Scott. Hi, how's it going? Good, how can we help? So I'm 23. I have been dating my significant other for about six years now, and marriage is definitely on the near horizon. Gee whiz, I would hope so.

Six years. I'm kind of struggling. I. Six years. I'm struggling. I'm exhausted already. I'm exhausted. Can't imagine. Well, everybody tells us we're young. How old are you? You're 23? I'm 23.

So the high school sweetheart situation, and you're like, all right, we kind of have our bearings. We're out of school at this point, working full-time? Yes, we're both working full time. OK, and you want to propose in the next six to 12 months? Yes, I was thinking within the next next year.

OK, what's your question, Scott? So I'm just wondering. So we've also been thinking of a house as well, and I just feel like it makes me nervous, you know, all these expenses coming up so soon, you know, you have the engagement ring, the wedding, the honeymoon, and then obviously a house, and you know, everybody seems to be putting 15 to 20% down. Who's everybody? Everybody's broke. And that would be.

I don't know who everybody, I mean, it's rare. A lot of people I work with. I've never met a 23 year old who's about to get married. Who's like, yeah, we're ready to buy a house, buy a ring, get the wedding and do it all in cash. Here's what most people do. They go, we'll finance it and we'll start our marriage off in crippling debt and hope for the best.

That's normal. And so I want you to be weird, Scott. And that means, hey, maybe a newlywed couple can just rent for a year or two or three, get their bearings underneath them and get a good down payment under their feet before going, well, we're married, gotta have a nice house, gotta have a nice car.

So I would focus on one thing at a time. Next up is the ring. We're gonna do a reasonable ring, one month salary max. I don't care how wonderful she is. It's not about the ring she deserves. It's about the one you can afford. Next, let's make sure we can cash flow this wedding between family and ourselves.

Next, let's talk about the honeymoon. All right, I'm gonna pay for a reasonable honeymoon. Next, we can talk about emergency funds and down payments and all that good stuff. So hang on the line, I'm gonna send you Financial Peace University. This is the roadmap for any newlywed couple. If you guys get aligned on this, it will bode very well for the success of your future marriage.

Mmm. That's good, George. One thing at a time. That's it. Very simple. So we're such in a rush. At 23. Yeah. Wow. Got a lot of life ahead of him. Yes, Scott. He's much older. So much older. And by the way, the young thing, I got married at 23.

This is a bit too young. All right. We got to take a break. During the break, I'm going to cheer with George what I've learned about. Bread. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage,

just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey Trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely.

Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchillmortgage.com. That's churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumer access dot org. Eagle Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman so glad that you are with us. AAA 825-5225 is the phone number. Many of you listen to

us, watch us, because you want to invest and invest wisely. And the reality is is that investing can be very intimidating, certainly confusing. And you never want to take investing advice on a TikTok. You need to dive deep. And so to that end, our Investing Essentials virtual event is going to teach you everything you need to know. It's coming up March four and five. Tickets start at $199. This is a two night event, as you can tell by the dates. Dave Ramsey and George Campbell are collaborating on this event. You're gonna get Dave's personal playbook

on real estate investing. And George is gonna do a deep dive as well. George, you wanna give a little snippet? I just did a rehearsal this morning. And man, the stuff we have planned for how to choose exact mutual funds in your plan so that you can invest with confidence. That's great.

We're getting a lot of questions about this, and we're gonna just lay it all out in a way where you leave so much more confident about your whole investing plan. We're gonna take it all and just make it simple. There's so much noise out there, and we're just gonna go, here's the 17 things you need to know and nothing else.

And so it's gonna be a really good time. Looking forward to it. Tickets, $1.99. That's a good deal for five hours worth of coaching from Dave Ramsey himself. And we're taking your questions as well. So you can email those in if you get your tickets, ramsysolutions.com slash events,

or click the link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube, don't miss it. We're not doing this again this year. That's right. You were talking about all the complexity out there around investing. That's why I was telling you during the break about what I've learned about sourdough bread.

I saw you took a sourdough class. I feel like now you're an expert. Well, there's just a lot out there. What do you do with the starter? How much do you feed it? There's a lot of things out there. Well, it's much like investing. Why I signed up for the sourdough class.

But you gotta do it the right way and you gotta have patience. That's right. You can't rush the process. So there you go. I just want to tie all that in together there, George. See, I signed up. Beautifully done. You all need to sign up for this investing class if you don't understand it, because it's a class. Let's just be honest. Two-night event, gonna be great. And maybe George will tell you a little bit about what I've told him about Sourd of telephone. That's too risky. We'll see. Let's go to Minneapolis now where Jacob is waiting for us. Jacob, how can we help today? Hi. Thank you for taking my call, first of all. I was curious as to where I should start with my money. I recently had a change in careers or chose to change careers and I feel a

little bit lost on where to go from here. Okay so you change from what making what to what making what? So I used to be a CNC machinist making about $25 an hour. I have changed careers to I'm going to school to become a nurse. Currently, I am a CNA making about $18.50 an hour. Okay. How soon will you be out of the schooling and then making nurse money? And what will that be? Should be December of 2026. Okay. And what will you be making? of 2026. OK. And what will you be making?

I believe starting in my area is anywhere from 38 to 40 an hour. OK. So a temporary step back in order to step forward. Correct. OK, great. I got no problem with that. It's very strategic.

OK, so be more specific. When you said to George and I, I don't know where to start, what specifically? How can we help? where's the area that you're not sure what to do next so uh... when i decided to change jobs are also decided it uh... change cities change where i live uh... i live in a little bit more of an expensive area uh... and

i am completely out of debt uh... i have about five thousand five thousand dollars,000 in my savings for an emergency fund. Um, and I'm trying to decide, you know, at the moment I have a couple hundred dollars after the paycheck hits of room to work with. Um, and I'm not sure if I should be investing, you know, at least a little bit. I am 25 years old. And I'm not sure if I should be investing that money

or if I should just kind of keep stashing that away, especially since I'm in such a volatile area of my life being in school. Yeah, great question. Are you familiar with our Baby Steps? I am, yes. Okay, okay. So you're in Baby Step three,

5,000 feels too tight for me for the fully funded emergency fund. So I would take those few extra 100 bucks and start stashing it on top of your 5,000 until you have closer to 10 or 15, depending on what your monthly expenses are. The bigger question is, sorry if I missed this, is your entire schooling cash flowed from here on out?

Yes, I actually qualify for it to be paid for. Amazing. So I don't have to pay anymore. So that's great news. So there's no fear we're going to have to come out of pocket for school? Yeah, except for like books and stuff. But I've got all the books for the rest of my time in school. I've bought all those books that I cash flowed that.

Wonderful. Then you're in a really good spot. You're cash flowing school. You're going to be going from making, you're going to double your income by December of 2026, which gives me a great joy. And then you'll be moving on to investing once you have that fully funded emergency fund, which will likely happen before you finish school. And so I think we want to get you investing, but you got to get that fully funded emergency fund because right now it could take one or two emergencies to wipe out that entire savings account. Sure. Do you know your monthly expenses off the top of your head? There it kind of depends it kind

of seems like things have been popping up just about every single month lately but anywhere from on a normal month I'd say anywhere from 1,000 to 1,200 a month. Whoa. I'm very what is your rent with my? My rent is actually the majority of it rent is about 900 a month But I don't pay for electricity water Internet none of that stuff that stuff is paid for for me so i who uh... my parents okay how are you twenty five

and you're married no no i am in a relationship but i'm not there he said the girl for a gallon sure i'm sorry okay twenty five years old mom and dad are paying all your utilities. That's a sweet deal. That's a good deal if you can get it. I don't think I like it very much, but I think it's time to cut the umbilical cord. Is the agreement that this is until you get through school or longer than that?

Yeah. Yeah. Once I graduate and I'm making the money, I plan on moving out and kind of doing my own thing. Okay. Oh, you're living with them. I miss that too. Okay. All right. That makes a lot more sense.

All right. There you go. Well, thanks for the call. I mean, you're on the way and I love that you're thinking about the margin and George gave you great advice. I keep it simple. Just stack it up because as soon as you graduate, there's probably going to be more expenses coming your way

as you start out on your own, your own adult life. Yeah. All right, let's go to John in Pittsburgh. John, how can we help? Hey. Hi, John, we got about two and a half minutes. Hit me with your question. My question is, is I'm in baby step two,

and I just got an opportunity to move to another city I was wondering if you guys think that's a horrible idea or tell me about the opportunity is it for work it is for work I'm currently located in Pennsylvania and the opportunity would be moving me to Dallas Fort Worth area is it more money it would be more money. How much? Almost another 30k on top of what I'm making now. Okay, I like that. Is it in the same industry? Same industry. It would be a higher position too. So it would be doing what I'm doing now, but sort of managing people and overseeing an operation for a client. Great. Do you

think that sets you up to continue to climb a ladder that you've sort of envisioned? You can see continued growth as a result of this move? Yes. It's a no-brainer. What would be the reason for not saying yes and calling us to get our take? So, I'm married. We have a son. How old? They're attached. The son is seven. Okay.

My wife is 32. What's the attachment? The school attachment. My wife just started a new job that she loves. We also have three horses here on our property that no one wants to get rid of. Of course, who could get rid of a horse? I can't imagine. If the horses weren't the issue or your wife getting a brand new job, would you be doing this and automatically? Quick answer. Without a doubt.

Can you negotiate a relocation bonus to cover those expenses? I don't think that's the issue, George. I think it's, can the wife, I think the biggest issue is this. Can his wife find a job doing something similar that she enjoys? I think that's the issue.

The horses, boy oh boy. I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot pole. I will, sell the horses, sell the horses. Is that like a, oh I forgot, you've got a lot of controversy around that. It's called PTSD, Ken. I got it. Well, we'll talk about the equine population

during the break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options, and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care about what you want. Common concerns like those are why I'm proud to recommend Health Trust Financial.

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you don't overpay. So get out of the maze by going to health trust financial dot com today health trust financial dot com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Kyd and Coleman, 828-825-5225 is the number. Alright folks, for those of you who are aware of the Baby Steps, how you doing? How you tracking along? If you want to take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan, we've got it for you.

All you got to do is go to the show notes, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? And complete the quiz. And there's some real value in this, George. Tell them why. Well, a lot of people just, you gotta know where you are to know where you're going.

And it'll give you a really clear next step to take in the Ramsey Plan with tools, resources, articles, you name it. And so this is a great way to just jump in, send this link to a friend who isn't aware of us, and I gotta say Ken, I really appreciated the Joey Tribbiani, How You Doin' at the very beginning. Yeah, see what I did there?

Yeah, it really sold it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, friends, one of the greatest shows of all time, so there you go. How You Doin' on the Baby Steps, go find out, click the link in the show notes. How You Doin', do they have a How You Doin' in Boston? Yeah, it's a little more aggressive and probably has more expletives, but you know. Give me a PG version of how you doing Bostonian.

What's up my guy? Okay. Something like that. Okay, I like that. What's up guy? I like that. I like that. That's my bad athletic. That's fantastic. You did well by the way.

By the way, it goes with the bomber jacket. Thank you. I think the accent works. Very tough. Yeah. Let's go to Lynn in Madison, Wisconsin. Lynn, how can we help? Hi guys.

I do need your help. Well, good news. We have got help to give. I mean, I can't think of two guys that are more helpful than us. So you're in good hands. Well, good. Yeah.

I'm hoping to get a dispute settled. Oh, I love dispute. Oh, it's between you and your husband. It is. All right, let me ask this before we get going. Is he by chance in the room with you? He's not. Okay.

He's not, I wish he were. I do too, because I am now starting this new trend here, George. We've done this one or two times. We get both of them on the phone. Yeah, that's more fun. Okay, we'll hear one side. All right, Lynn, let's go.

Let's hear your side and his side. Okay. All right, well, the question is, I wanna know if I'm a Ramsey Solutions hypocrite. Ooh. You're fighting words. I like how you lead off here. We'll see if you're a Pharisee.

Go ahead. All right, well, some quick background. This is a second marriage for both of us. We were just married this past December. Marcy, go ahead. All right. All right. Well, some quick background. All right. This is a second marriage for both of us. We were just married this past December. Okay. I'm age 58. She's age 54.

We have a total of four adult children, two on each side. And I think a key thing for me was I was a single mom for 17 years. So my kids were two and three when I was divorced and I paid maintenance and I paid child support. I carried the healthcare and I paid for all the incidental for my kids. I found Ramsey Solutions after a layoff that scared me to death. So the stress left me, you me in not a great place. And I dug into the Ramsey plan. I bought in, I listened, I did financial peace university

and I started with a net worth of 170,000. Okay. My life insurance was more than my net worth. So coming into the marriage, I was baby step seven with a net worth of 1.9 million. Hey, way to go, Lynn. It was a lot of small vacations at the local park. You're a rock star. Don't mess with mama bear, Lynn.

You listen, let's just call that out. That's hard work. Good for you. Thank you. It was hard work, but it was worth it because now here I am. So baby step seven. And now my husband, he came to the marriage with a net worth of 150,000. And he was one of those guys who never found that he didn't like. He had car loans, he had a boat loan, he had credit cards. He kind of had everything. And obviously since we're married, we financially got into the same place.

So I introduced him to Ramsey solutions, gave him financial peace university. We went through that and he's come aboard. So we've eliminated the credit card debt, the car loan, got rid of everything. I wanted going into the marriage. I wanted a into the marriage. I wanted a prenup and this is where the dispute came. And I wanted the prenup to state that if we divorced, I wanted to the 625,000 that I was putting into paying off our residents accounted for. Now that was if we divorced,

I also asked for a death clause that states that should I die, he gets the house in the entirety and there's no splitting it with my estate or anything like that value. That would be his. So it's just a divorce. If there was a divorce, I wanted that accounted for. And then anything above and beyond that would be split equitably. And it's our intent that our retirement account would remain separate. So the principle of our retirement accounts would remain separate. If we draw anything out to pay for things for us, that's all commingled and everything that all my, on the other cash,

everything would be split equally. If we were, if we divorced, I wouldn't be saying like, oh, well we paid off the car while we were married, and my cash paid that off or whatever. It was none of that. So what specifically is he calling hypocritical? That I wanted a prenup. Just the prenup. But were they fine with certain parts of the agreement? You just laid out a list. Was he against all of those things? All of those things. He's like, absolutely, this is ridiculous.

I can't believe that you're going to be asking for a prenup. Once we're married, we're married, and everything should be equal. I'm like, well, it is equal. I'm just saying, if we get divorced, because I've been divorced before, and I'm now 58, if I split half, which Wisconsin is a 50-50 state, I don't have time to recoup that again.

All right. And how long you've been married? Two months. I'm going to ask a stupid question, George, that I think you know the answer to. I may not. Try me. Can you get a pre-nup post-marriage? Post-nuptial.

You can. Yeah. No, we have the document now. We have it now. Oh, so he didn't want it, but you went ahead and got it drawn up anyway. Yep, we got it drawn up. We got to a place where those were the things we agreed on. I was trying to explain, like, hey, we're

sharing all bank accounts. We're sharing everything. No, no, I get all that. I get all that. So is it signed? It's signed. The prenup was signed before our wedding. But he just resents you for it.

So why are you calling us again? So what's the dispute? This is all moot point, right? No, no, I'm still a hypocrite. I'm still a Ramsey's hypocrite. Were those his words? I'm not truly into the Ramsey solutions. Okay, well, just let me free you of all of this.

There's no hypocrites here. There's no Ramsey Bible that you've sinned against. Pre-nups are a very nuanced thing. And usually what we say is, unless there was a massive gap in Net Worth, and yours truly is not like a, oh my gosh, you're bringing millions and millions in, you have a family business,

there's massive generational wealth here. We're talking about someone who prepared for retirement and someone who's just getting started. And it sounds like he's on the same page, you're on the same plan now. So you're on the edge of like, is this even necessary? But I understand with your backstory that you're just going, hey, I just can't be left out in a lurch,

you know, not unable to retire or something were to happen. So I think you both need to go to counseling and deal with the underlying trust and communication issues, but there's no hypocrites here. You did nothing wrong, quote unquote. So let me release you of that, that no one's gonna quote. We don't have like a blanket policy on that.

No, it's just most people don't need one. And the guy goes, well, I'll make 40 grand and she makes 20. No, dude, you don't need a prenup. We're talking about protecting your stuff from the crazy family around you, not from each other. Yeah, and had you called us before you got it signed, I would have said, same thing that George said,

but I would have said, I personally would not do one because I feel like a prenup is an acknowledgement that we could finish this thing and end this thing. And I'm not judging anybody that's been divorced. I want everybody to hear this. I'm not judging anybody. Okay? I am blessed to come from, my wife and I both come from families where our parents have been married over 50 years. So we have a heritage that we inherit. We saw it. And when Stacey and I got married, there was no out. And we've been married 27 years, and there have been times when it's been very, very hard. There's no out. Now that's our position.

I'm not prescribing that to anybody. I'm not proselytizing today. But I would say that I would have said ahead of time, I want you to go to counseling, because you've got some very natural fears, Lynn. And I understand, I'm empathetic to go, if I were in your shoes I could see where you could get to that point and want to protect yourself. You've been burned. But so is he. And I think that this should have been counseling on the front end. You should not have forced this. I'm gonna say something crazy here. If it were me, I'd tear it up. Woo. And then I'd go to counseling. I think you forced the issue on this and I think you got to read redo it.

That's what I would do. Oh boy. Here come the hate mail. This is the Ramsey show. Hey guys, I'm Jade Warsha and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing. If your payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out refinancing, your student payment and your interest rate are burying you and you feel like you can't dig out, refinancing your student loan debt might make sense. That's because a lower rate could free up

more money in your budget and a shorter term could help you pay down your debt faster. So reach out to the student loan refinancing experts today at laurelroad.com slash ramsey. There you'll find helpful resources like a student loan rate table, a refinancing calculator and other tools. Plus you can get an initial rate in just a few minutes. Laurel Road offers low competitive rates starting under 5% and you can get your interest rate even lower if you sign up for auto pay.

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Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. This is where we help you, America, win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money win in your profession and win with your relationship Triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five I'm Ken Coleman. He's George camel and He may have the best beard in all of YouTube now. You're just trying to entertain me, but I appreciate that

I mean, it's it's well coiffed. I guess in the YouTube world. They can't grow facial hair So I'll take that is that right? Yeah, you know I'm making this stuff up Yeah, the fact that you fact-checked me on that is you know it's just a nice little I appreciate that You got a good five o'clock. I want to throw a little something positive your way You know I mean it was a compliment. That's the kind of friendship. We have you couldn't receive it I was just trying to say something nice about you. Thank you. Let me restate it I was just trying to say something nice about you. Thank you. That's very rare. Let me restate it.

Alongside George Campbell, the man with the best bomber jacket collection and all of you two content. That's the Ken Coleman I know and love. Oh, so you'll receive that one. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I can't grow a beard. I can choose what I receive.

All right, well folks. I have agency. You figure it out by now. We like to have fun while we help you out because there's breakthrough on the other side of these calls. So let's get to it. Julie is in Tampa, Florida. Julie, how while we help you out, because there's breakthrough on the other side of these calls. So let's get to it. Julie is in Tampa, Florida. Julie, how could we help today?

Hi, how's it going? Good, how are you, Julie? Oh, thank you for taking my call. I prayed and God put you guys, I'm like, I'm just gonna go to the top. My pastor's kid here, so. Oh, hey, you're talking to a pastor's kid. Yeah, I didn't know. I'm like, I'm going to my dad, my brother, my mom. I'm like, no, I'm just going to go straight to the top about money and call them. So thank you for taking

the call. That's brave. I'm glad you made it through. You're here for a reason. So tell us, what's going on, Julie? Lay it on us. All right, I'll be fast. I can feel the weight that's on you right now. I can too. I'm really interested about what's coming our way here. Okay, go Julie. I just got through a pretty major health crisis that could have killed me.

Major surgery. I think we stopped counting it. Seventeen hospitals stays last year. Oh my goodness, Julie. And then I had a complication I was admitted four more times. Um, the problem is my parents have taken on some of the medical debt and we had to move in with them while this was going on. Now we owe them 50,000.

Uh, I don't know about 16 months ago, we decided to do the financial piece, you know, the day of Ramsey program, and which I refused to do because you're running me so much of my debt. I didn't want to do it. I'm like, no, it's dad telling you what to do. But we paid off almost 28,000 already, a medical debt.

So it works. And we have our thousand in our checking account and we're doing snowball. How much is left now? So now all that's left is my mom and dad put 50 grand on like six zero percent credit cards and they're coming up to expire and go to 30%. They're afraid they're gonna lose their house.

Oh my goodness. Why would they take this on? It was- Why couldn't you just go through the hospital to pay them and be in debt to the hospital where you could actually negotiate? That's what I was thinking. And it was partially dental and cars. It was a little bit of cars, dental and medical, those three things.

And my dad got soups in and help, big heart, driving me to appointments and my dad swoops in and helps big heart you know driving me to appointments and my husband's working just a lot of love but we all agree we made a terrible mistake we should never combined it and now here we are and we my husband we've married 25 years and he has never been sick, never got the doctor and he works a very, very dangerous job. Um, there's been two deaths out at the plant in the last six months and he fell with extremely high blood pressure and was put on, um, what is that temporary disability for six weeks.

So he's struggling with his health and he doesn't, my question to you is, this is where the rift is with my parents. He doesn't know why we can't move out, continue Dave Ramsey, which we have a, you know, track record of doing it and, and be on our own heel. It's a lot better for him with the rotating graveyard to have a quiet, dark room. Right now we're in a small house, one little noise. Why can't you move out, Julie? My dad's like, if you move out and you're not gonna be able to do these. He wants us to do his plan. I want to do Dave's.

What's your dad's plan? I'm gonna go back to this. Hold on a second. I don't even care about dad's plan because we're gonna get lost in details that don't matter. You called, you wanted our help. I'm gonna ask the question again. Why can't you and your husband move out? My dad wants us to stay until the death paid back to him. Okay, I'm gonna ask it a third time. I'm gonna ask it a third time and you're gonna see where I'm going Why can't you and your husband move out of your parents house? We can we can afford both then that's what I'm getting. Thank you, sir in the lobby. He was tracking with me It took three times Julie. Yeah, but listen, this is why you called my parents. No, no, listen, there it is

That's the real reason that's the real reason And you have a lot of respect for your dad. You also feel a massive amount of guilt. The heaviness that George felt at the top of the call is guilt. Yeah. Well, I got news for you. Yeah, I deal with that. Well, I got news for you.

You've done nothing illegal. You've done nothing unethical. No, it just happened to me. Yeah. Yeah, but you guys did some nonsensical things with the credit card. All the money stuff was really. But here's the deal.

Your dad doesn't get to tell you what to do. You guys have been married 25 years. How old are you? Yeah, I'm 47. My husband's 51. And my husband's telling my father we're going to have a meeting tomorrow. So this call is perfect timing.

They don't talk about it. Are you holding your husband up? In other words, if you had already given him the green light, would he have already moved you guys out? Yeah, I think I'm part of the problem, maybe, because I'm so concerned about my parents. And I think my dad's living in the what if, will COVID happen? It's not his life.

George, I want to bring you in here. I've been- I'm just, here's the deal. Your dad decided to take on that credit card debt in his own name, that's on him. And so he cannot guilt you or manipulate you into doing anything. So have a written agreement

of how we're going to pay this back, and it's going to have nothing to do with your living arrangements. He's holding you in doing anything. So have a written agreement of how we're gonna pay this back and it's gonna have nothing to do with your living arrangements. He's holding you in a prison. You know what's gonna happen? Miserable. You know what's gonna happen? You're gonna end up hurting your husband while trying not to hurt your dad. Well that's my fear is because my husband, his blood pressure is because of the stress of the job. Just imagine an oil rig that on land. It's so dangerous. Julie, Julie, Julie, Julie, you're taking on the weight of the world right now.

Julie, stop. God bless you. I want to give you a hug. I don't want you to feel me criticizing you, but I want you to hear me. Oh, I can take it. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I'm not criticizing you, but I'm trying to be so blunt with you. This is what I call it. Your husband needs you to support him. Yeah. Period. There is nothing else. I don't want to lose my husband.

I mean... Then move! Move! Then he needs a new job. And that's going to be a new chapter for you guys. I wish we could call him right now. And tell him... He's here right now.

He is? You want to say hi? Yeah, you want to say hi to Jake? Jake, Jake, can you hear us? Hey guys, how you doing? Hey Jake, Julie wants to support you, so you gotta make the man move now. We just talked to her about it, we told her. She's got to follow you, she wants to follow you, but she's also trying not to hurt dad. So now it's time for you to go, babe It's gonna be okay. I'll support you dealing with whatever dad's gonna throw at you, but we Are gonna leave and cleave. We got plans tonight. We're going to Home Depot We're buying some boxes and we're going out and by the way, I ask you permission. Are you willing to lead sir?

Yes, sir. Well, and that's been the whole challenge. No, no, we gotta go. I'm so sorry. I got a commercial break. I'm not being rude. Lead! Go get the boxes now! You know how when you go against what society thinks is quote normal, like avoiding debt, it feels weird at first? Well, I'm here to tell you that is okay. I want you to be weird if that means you're being intentional, including

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and still get the care you need. Plus, programs start as low as $98 a month. So go to chministries.org slash budget to find out more. That's chministries.org slash budget. Running a business is freaking hard. It's easy to get caught up in the daily challenges and fears that keep you stuck. That's why I want you to reserve your copy

of our new book, Build a Business You Love, where we share the proven system that helped us break through those challenges and build Ramsey Solutions from a card table in my living room to a $250 million company in the process. When you pre-order today, you're to get more than three hundred and fifty dollars in bonuses for free including an enhanced audiobook experience, early access to the Build a Business You Love ebook, and instant access to our hiring playbook so

you can start transforming your business right now. Build a Business You Love, the essential guide for every business owner like you that wants to grow yourself, lead your team, and scale your business. To reserve your copy go to ramsesolutions.com slash store ramsesolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Kamel and Ken Coleman and it's Kamel and Coleman. That's a law firm you'd hire right there. Yeah that is isn't it? What would we specialize in? Probably personal injury would be on like the park benches, buses, you know? Real better call Saul vibe. I can see both of us doing

commercials together talking about call us. You know like that whole it's so smarmy. Yeah we'd be very smarmy. I think we would. And that's the vibe we put off. That's right. Tyler is in Dallas, Texas. Let's go to Tyler. Tyler, how can we help?

Hey guys, how's it going? Good, what's going on? So I'm in a position or a predicament, I guess you could call it. I have two job opportunities. One being a former employer that I was laid off with workforce reduction and a new job Both have benefits and you know both have a downside to them and me and my fiance

We're just kind of stuck in the middle of which one it would be best And I'm just trying to seek out some advice maybe an opinion of what you think would be best, and I'm just trying to seek out some advice, maybe an opinion of what you think would be best. Okay, great. So give us the pros of, we'll call it job number one, and let's go with, that's going back to your previous employer. Did I understand that right? Yes, sir. Okay, so give me the pros of going back there. So the pros for that one are, is going to be the pay. The pay is significantly, it's about 40, 40 to 50,000 more a year.

What's the total? Well, it's hourly, but like I said, it was previous. So I cleared about a hundred, a hundred and ten. Okay. Which does there. Okay. The two jobs there. Okay. And the retirement's also really good. The benefits are about the same for each,

but one of them doesn't have a pension, and my former employer does. So that's what you mean when you say the retirement's really good is the pension program? Yes, sir. Okay. What's the second job? What's the difference in pay?

Difference in pay, I'll probably make in close to 70 there, 60 to 70. And another thing is the shift difference. So that's a big one. We have two kids and our third's on the way. And that's kind of where we're- Is it the same industry? It's a little different. Previous job was manufacturing automobiles and the new job would be repair and maintenance on aircrafts. Okay. And you're torn between this? I mean this is a massive pay

difference. The shift to me, shifts can shift. Sorry for being cheesy. No, of course. But it's not like you're stuck in that shift forever, but my goodness you're talking about the difference between 110k and 70k. Yeah, and there's one more thing there. So my previous employer, they won't pay for school or anything like that. They have some certain programs that they'll cover, but this new job, starting day one, they'll pay all tuition for any school I want to do. So where do you want to end up? Now this changes the entire conversation for me. Where do you want to be 10 years, 15, 20 years from now?

What are you doing professionally? I want to have my own business. Doing what? More than likely construction. And would the degree that the second option would be willing to pay for it, would that be an absolute must to get into construction? I see that there's benefits for it. I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that. So let me put it this way. My policy on any degree has always been and will always be this. Is the degree, I don't care if it's undergrad or grad, is it the only way to do what you want to do or is it the best way to do what you want to do? So answer the question that way. Is it the best way to do what you want to do? So answer the question that way.

No. Then don't freaking do it. It is wasted time, which is our greatest asset as humans is time. And it's wasted money. So man, I just saved you a lot of time and money. And with three kids, is your wife working outside the home or she home with the kiddos? She's at home. She works from home. Okay. I would not take the new job. I'd go back to the previous employer. Yeah there's

not enough pluses on this new one to take it. Which way were you leaning? Well I was kind of in the middle because I mean I've worked. No you weren't. No you were not. You know it's impossible to be in the middle. There was a way that you were leaning before you made the call. Which way were you leaning? You couldn't get a hold of us and you had to make a decision in two minutes and you're on the phone and they go, I can't get you in with Ken and George today. And you got to give an answer. Which way were you leaning? Tell the truth. Probably the money.

Yeah, because you got a brain and you got people who rely on you and the money in this equation sets you up better to be a business owner than this degree does. The construction business is an expensive business to get into. That's right. You need a lot of cash. A lot of cushion too. You need a fat emergency fund. You need no debt. And George, take it away on the pension thing too, because we don't want him just relying on that pension. I wanted to bring you into that.

Pensions over time have way underperformed the market. And so I know it sounds alluring because it's like, well, it's guaranteed income, but you can do better investing on your own in any company retirement plan. So I would not make the decision just for the pension alone. That's a fine by-product if they have it, but I would not make your decision based on that.

And then financially, are you guys in a good spot? Do you have any debt? Do you have an emergency fund? So yeah, we have an emergency fund. We have about two and a half months in that. Debt, we have just her vehicle left. We've got everything pretty much. What's left in her vehicle? As far as, say it again. What's left just her vehicle left. We've got everything pretty much what's left in her vehicle And as far as say it again, what's left on her vehicle?

Thirty thirty thousand and how much do you have in savings? For our personal savings or the all liquid cash you have access to including the emergency fund Probably eight thousand. Okay. We've got some work to do here liquid cash you have access to, including the emergency fund? Probably 8,000. Okay. We've got some work to do here. If you're gonna follow the Ramsey plan, we've got to knock out this car loan before we're working on that emergency fund.

But you also told me you have a third baby on the way. Yes, sir. So let's pause and stack up cash. But as soon as baby and mommy are home healthy, let's push play and dump that savings into the car if you do decide to keep it. You may decide to sell it, but that's, you know, your income supports having a $30,000 car, but not a $30,000 car loan. That's a lot. So George and I have, we've spoken. You take the better paying

job because of the long-term play here. And man, I just want to reiterate this. There's a really handsome guy out in the lobby that was shaking his head when I was giving my little, is it the only way or is it the best way degree thing? I want to just reemphasize that because I know that's new to people in the show. And I have found, because I've coached 10,000 people on this very issue. Ken, should I get a degree? What should I do to grow in my professional development? And the degree is, when it is the only way, it's a no-brainer. When it's the best way, it's still a no-brainer, but you may need to be patient.

But this idea that, well, I can go get a degree, and they pay for it, and now I got this degree and all of a sudden, this piece of paper, I can see it, it's a degree. People think it's like a Willy Wonka golden ticket. It's a diploma, yeah. And it does not guarantee success. And I just can't say it enough, George, because this comes back to Borrowed Future.

This comes back to some of the podcasts that you've done. I mean, this is what, you talk about traps in your book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on student loans, and I quote, you're very, is it the only way, is it the best way? Because it's a trap so many kids fall into because they think, well, this is the only path.

If I don't go to college, I'm gonna be destitute in my little town and never make it anything for myself. And the truth is, I see more people who took on crippling student loan debt for a degree they didn't care about that had no real marketplace value, they had no passion in, and now they're left picking up the pieces,

working a job because they have to, to make the payment. This is the insanity, this is the loop. Let's go to college to get a job to pay off the loans with a job. And it sold to us as, it sucks, but you gotta do it. No, getting a student loan or going to get a degree that you can't afford is not like going to the dentist. You gotta go to the dentist.

You don't have to go to college. And I just think that that's the cultural message here and I think it's slowly eroding as we see the crazy compound of student loan debt. So really crazy. That's why people are going to the trades, they're starting small businesses because they're going, I don't want to be like that guy.

150 grand in student loan debt, nothing to show for it. Yeah. Ugh, that's crazy. Do you floss regularly, George? Three times a day. Do you? Yeah, probably too much. I want to learn more about that.

Very offensive, my dentist asked, do you floss? Can you not tell? Doing it so much man. Wow. I'll learn more about your flossing technique on the break. Thank you. Don't go anywhere we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships. Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships, but all those labels can distract from what's really important.

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People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack, get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place?

And that's what makes the Every Dollar Budgeting app a game changer. With Every Dollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending. And from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back and save more money. So how much money are we talking here?

Well, the average Every Dollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget. That's the hack and if you ask me, I think you're way above average and you'll save even more So what do you do and still listening to me go download the every dollar app for free and start saving more money right now Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman George camel is with me Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. This is your show, 828-825-5225. George is going to coach you up on how to save and invest your money and I'm going to coach up on how to make more money. So that is the combo today. Time for our Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by WhyRefi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much

as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead. That's why when WhyRefi when the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead. That's why when WhyRefi, and that's actually when, WhyRefi can help. Refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Find out more at WhyRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Kyle in Colorado. I'm 30 years old and earn around $200,000 per year.

I owe $255,000 on my house and $50,000 on my vehicle. I max out my 401k every year with a current balance of $150,000. I also have a Robinhood account with roughly $,000 in it and invest 500 there every month. Cash on hand is around 20,000. I'm wondering if it's better to invest in the stock market or pay off my truck and home before considering any other investments outside of my 401k and monthly contributions to Robinhood.

Well, he's almost there. Yeah, at least he's questioning his decisions. That's a good start to wonder if you're even doing it the right way. So here's the truth, Kyle, you can do what you want. You have an amazing salary. You can out-earn your stupidity for a long time and afford that payment for as long as you want, my friend.

But if I'm in your shoes, I'm following the Ramsey plan. I'm gonna get rid of that vehicle ASAP. It's not too much for your income. So if you wanna keep it and pay it off aggressively, I would, my guess is your Robinhood account of 15,000 is not retirement, so you could cash that out along with your 20K on hand, and that'll get your loan down to about 15,000, and making 200,000,

that thing's done within, what, 90 days or less, your vehicle loan is gone. Now, regarding the house, would I put extra on the house, I would be on 15% of your income. And so if you're talking about 200,000, that means 30,000 a year going into retirement accounts, that means you could max out a Roth 401k, you could do a backdoor Roth IRA,

and that would get you to that 30k. And then you can move on from there to paying off the house with any extra money beyond that, which you should have plenty of when you free up that $50,000 vehicle loan payment. Goodness, that's gotta be probably an $800, $900 payment right there, if not more. So that'll free you up to start throwing that on the mortgage and get you on track for the baby steps. Yeah, I love the advice. Couldn't agree more. I mean, he's putting $500 a month in the Robinhood account. So if we just start moving that over as well to the truck, that's gonna be gone soon.

So he's gonna knock the truck out quick and then you start working on the house. Yeah, he's probably taking home 13, 14,000 a month. And so you could, if you just get on a real bare bones budget, you could knock that vehicle out in probably two months if you got serious. I love that. I like this plan.

I like it. Thanks for the question. All right, back to the phones we go. 888-825-5225. Andrew is in Austin, Texas. Andrew, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Sure, what's going on? Yeah, so back when I was going to college, my parents and I took out student loans to pay for them. When taking out the loans, there was no conversation about me having any responsibility for the parent portion of the loans. Now, six years later, my parents are blaming my sisters and I for not having any money in retirement and

for filing bankruptcy and saying that after all of that, we're going to have to take over the loans because they shouldn't have to worry about that this time in their lives. And I told them no, but that caused a bunch of arguments and I suggested family counseling and that was rejected too. And I guess just want to know, are we in the wrong? Having tried to help them, it seems like they have no willingness to change and letting money come between the family. Now what they've done is gross to put that on you. You are not the solution to their financial mess and they're just in a real pickle and looking at their pile of debts going well if the kids didn't cause all of this harm to us we would be in a very different place. The truth is they've been reckless

for a long time with their money. They didn't have a conversation about what was gonna happen with college and student loans. They decided to take on all of the debt in their name only with this Parent PLUS loan with crazy high interest. And now they wanna pin it on you and they're in a bind. I'm not buying it. And I'm guessing the relationship with your parents

has not been great for a long time. That is correct. Yes. It's been transactional and very well. Look at what we did for you and this is what you have to do for us. And I'm also guessing there is a lot more debt laying around here than just these parent plus loans. As far as I know, yes. You know, they're never open about it. So I wouldn't know for sure, but the bankruptcy wouldn't even impact it. Yeah, bankruptcy does not discharge student loans.

Right. So why would they do it if it was only the student loans? Exactly. Do you know anything about their financial picture? I don't know exactly. No. They've never been open about it. This is just so warped. The way you describe this, I just think you need such clear and very high

boundaries that are in stone, like concrete boundaries, not flexible plastic fencing boundaries. This is just so weird and I think there needs to be a real clear clean boundary established and walk away from this nonsense. Because this isn't just coming at you, they're coming at your sisters too, you said. So this is so unhealthy and so, and I use the word warped on purpose. You got to make a clean cut for now and hope for healing. Hope for something, but there's nothing you can do anyway. So them putting this guilt trip on you because they're desperate. And I don't wanna be too critical, George, of the parents.

It is warped, it's crazy unhealthy, but they are hurting and they're desperate. And this smells of desperation. That's usually when you go to blame everyone else is when you're backed into a corner like this. And so the best thing you can do is be kind, be firm, be respectful, set the boundary and let them know, hey, listen,

I'm not in a position to pay this back. We never had this conversation. There's nothing in writing saying that we were gonna be obligated to pay this debt. You guys decided this is how we're going to help and quote, pay for school. And therefore it's your responsibility. And if you're in a position to help, if you're going,

hey, we got the money sitting in savings and we wanna morally do this, that's fine. But you have no legal responsibility to pay this back. And I wouldn't let them guilt trip you into saying, well, if mom and dad are gonna be homeless unless you foot the bill, I'm not buying that either. Yeah, I agree. That just feels so manipulative. Let's see if we can get Eric in. Eric is in Atlanta, Georgia. Eric, how can we help?

Hey, how are you guys doing? Good. What's going on today? Hey, so I have a pretty personal question here. So I would say I'm pretty far well off in terms of financial stability. My question is if I should save for an extra rainy day, and that extra rainy day meaning marriage and future kids most likely, or should I be a little bit more selfish with my spending and just kind of boost my own standards of living. Well, I want to release you from the selfishness. Let's find option C, where it's not save for a fictitious family. I don't know what we're saving for, but or save for me to buy a nice car.

What's going on financially with you? Do you have a bunch of money laying around? Well, let's see. My net worth is right around three hundred fifty000. Okay. And I already have a house that's already paid off as well. Amazing. And you got an emergency fund? The emergency fund is pretty much whatever is in my high yield savings. Yeah. How much is there? Yeah, 200,000. $200,000? Yeah, that's what I put in my higher savings for the maximum ROI on interest.

Okay, but what are we, I like money to have a goal and that is way beyond a six month emergency fund for you. And so what would be your next goal? Are you saying, hey, I don't really have one? I have a pay for house, are you investing 15% or more of your income at this point? goal? Are you saying, hey, I don't really have one? I have a pay-for house. Are you investing 15% or more of your income at this point? Yeah, 15% is already invested into retirement funds each year. Okay, you sound like you're you are the eternal

saver and so it might be time to upgrade some things in your life reasonably. We're paying cash. We're not gonna have this be a large portion of our world, but if you want to buy a few nice toys, go for it. Yeah, but he's in such a position that I'm not worried about him having money for a future family. Yeah, you're fine. It's a line item in the budget.

You know, a family doesn't show up and you go, I need $100,000. It's just a line item. That's true. For a ring. You're doing good. And then for a wedding. You'll have the savings ready to go, my friend. I'd get out there.

I'd get out of the house and start meeting some people There we go. There we go All right. This is the Ramsey show. We'll come up with a dating plan for Eric's life on the break Hey guys our two-night virtual event investing essentials is almost here There's a lot of confusion out there about building wealth So George Campbell and I are breaking it down and teaching you how to invest with confidence. You'll learn how to maximize your 401k and mutual funds. Plus I'll be sharing my personal playbook for real estate.

But hurry, time's running out. Investing Essentials is March 4th and 5th. Tickets start at $1.99. Grab yours today at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Alright folks, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell is alongside me. You know, money and relationships are two of the most important parts of our life, and a lot of stress, a lot of conflict around those two areas. But you can win in your money and your relationships. But if you need some help,

we've got a new tour. The Money and Relationships Tour. Very creative. I wonder how long the team Money and Relationships Tour. Very creative. I wonder how long the team spent on that. Sadly, they probably came up with 17 cool names and then decided, let's just make it clear. Yeah, the Money and Relationships Tour. It's Dave Ramsey and John Delaney hitting the road for six nights.

And they're gonna be taking on all topics. They're gonna be taking questions. Gonna be kind of live and unscripted, unfiltered. Raising money smart kids, how to and unscripted, unfiltered. Raising money smart kids, how to fight fairly in marriage, finding contentment. The cities are Louisville on April 21, Durham, North Carolina, April 23, Atlanta, Georgia, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, Texas on May 7, Kansas City on May 9. You don't want to miss this. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash tour, ramsysolutions.com slash tour. If you're listening via podcast or you're

watching on YouTube, click on the link in the show notes. Which by the way I should say, the show notes are a treasure trove I should say. I didn't say it well, but I did say it. A hidden gem. Anything we talk about, if you didn't catch it and you're on podcast or YouTube, go to the show notes and we've got a link for you. All right. Jordan's up next in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Jordan, how can we help today? Happy Friday, guys. How are you guys doing? Happy Friday, sir. So I'm 26. Um, I have a house that's paid off.

Me and my fiance have minimal to no debt. Probably the maximum we have. I have around 1100. She has around like 14 to $1,500 in debt. I started trading options about five years ago. Wasn't successful. Sort of sat down for the past two years, three years, researching, studying markets. You guys are king of investing. So I wanted to get your advice on it. I started about four or five weeks ago with a $660 and my account is now

sitting at 4800 and $200. $200. So I don't know if I should continue with the strategy that I'm using of trading options or do I move to a different strategy? Well, you've called the right show and the wrong show. You're not going to like what I tell you to do and you probably won't do it. I would tell you to stop day trading immediately and focus on long-term wealth building through your normal day job income. Do you have a normal day job? Yeah. So that's actually what got me back into trading because I started this current position on that. I work four 12th a week, so it gives me two to three days to day trade. I'm currently making 42.35 an hour I believe it is or 32.40.

Okay, so you're making about 85 grand a year if you're doing that 40 hours a week. Correct. You said you're doing 48 hours a week so it's probably a little more than that? Correct, yes. Okay. And what makes you go I need more? Clearly you're enjoying doing this and you haven't been burned by it yet. Correct. Okay, let me tell you that-

Well, no, I have been burned the first two years. I wanna say I've lost close to four to $5,000 within the first two years. Okay, so here's the stat and you fell perfectly into it. 97% of day traders who persisted for more than 300 days lost money. And many people go borrow money to make trades, going into debt to leverage, right?

And we've taken some gut wrenching calls in the Ramsey show from people who have lost 30 grand, 150 grand, even $300,000 by day trading. And it breaks my heart. And here's the problem, it's easy to feel like you're the exception 150 grand, even $300,000 by day trading. And it breaks my heart. And here's the problem. It's easy to feel like you're the exception when you're winning. Correct.

And it's easy to go, well, it's always gonna be, I'm good at this. It's just gambling at the end of the day. And if you do your research, it's just researched gambling, which still has a lot of risk. And I'm with Dave Ramsey on this. I just hate losing money. And so the easiest way to avoid that is to not gamble it. And so what I do is I invest into retirement plans.

If I want to invest outside of that, I would invest into an index fund and a taxable brokerage account and call it a day. And so I would focus on- Yeah, because here's the problem. You're spending hours and hours of week staring at these screens, trying to time the market. And instead the better thing to do

is instead of timing the market is just have time in the market through compound growth and a long-term strategy. This is the tortoise beats the hare. You've heard that? I've heard that. I've also heard the whole gambling, it's short money gains, don't get into it.

You might win now, but you're gonna lose it all later. Yeah, and I don't think it's worth the mental calories. I don't think it's worth the stress, the anxiety, the risk. Our plan is all about peace. You've heard it, financial peace. And so can I tell you how many times I've thought about my investments over the last six months? Zero.

I go, oh, market's down. All right, I'm gonna go get a coffee. I just don't care because I'm investing for the longterm. And if you're investing for a shorter term purchase, like real estate, just park it in an index fund, let it ride, that's what Dave does. And when he finds a good piece of property, he'll cash out enough to buy the property.

But I would never encourage anyone to do single stocks or even a single crypto coin. And day trading falls squarely in that with even more. Cause now it's a whole career you can make out of it of saying I'm a day trader. And so, man. You know what I heard this morning? You're too smart to do this stuff.

You know, I heard on the news this morning, got to get your quick take on it. What's that? There is now, there is a crypto bar in New York City. Oh, I have heard about this. Have you heard this? Yeah. And I was thinking of you, I heard it,

I was like, I wonder what George knows about this. So I guess- I'll tell you, it's the worst place to meet a woman. Oh man. Because he won't find one in there. Yeah. So if you just wanna hang out with other crypto pros. Yeah, Stuart Varney was asking,

this was on Fox Business, Stuart Varney was asking his female co-host who was talking about it, he's like, can you pay for your beer with crypto? And she's like, yeah. And she's like, you wouldn't know how to do it. So I guess Stuart has not jumped on the crypto train, but very interesting. Yeah. A crypto bar. I've got a dark curiosity. She said it's full of crypto enthusiasts. Oh, wow. So there you go. So my point is next time you're in New York doing media, I think you should go do that for TikTok and Instagram. Just do a little drop in. Just see if anyone starts filming me saying I saw George at a crypto bar. Yeah. That could be fun. No thank you.

All right. Let's go to Sarah in Denver, Colorado. Sarah, how can we help? Hi, I'm excited to talk to my money heroes. How are you? Wow, you're a money hero. Hold on a second, let me put my cape over the chair here. There it is, there it goes. How can we help? So, my husband and I are in our 40s and we're doing great for ourselves. We're maxing out 401Ks and IRAs and we're paying off the house with double payments. Wow. And we're kind of deciding, trying to decide what to do going forward, you know,

once everything's paid off and exploring some options to help our adult kids. So one of the things that we thought about was encouraging them to save even more for themselves and offering them the possibility of maybe, you know, if they put forth like a third of their Roth Mac for a year, would we double that, you know, and give them the other two thirds?

And so I guess I just wanted to find out what you guys thought about that. Yeah, so essentially you wanna gift your children money to help set them up for success and wealth down the road. And there's a lot of ways to do that. How old are the children? They are 23 and 24. Wonderful, and they're all working full time,

gainfully employed? Well, there's one that's doing a little better than the other, employment-wise, money-wise, and they're still learning for sure. That's great. Well, I like the idea of sort of a match because that encourages them to actually do the behavior instead of you doing it for them.

But there's a lot of ways to do this. If it's not wealth, it might be, hey, we wanted to gift you some down payment money and it has to go toward the house. And so there's a lot of ways you could do that. I love the idea of just contributing to that. I don't know, if you just wrote them a check for $3,000, would you trust that they'd actually go invest

that into an IRA? That's the question. Yeah, I do think that both of them would go do that if that was the intention, yes. Okay, I would demand proof as, because I'm that guy. I'd be like, all right, here's the deal. I'm gonna give this to you. I need proof in one week that you've actually deposited

this money or else I rescind it. So it's okay to give with strings attached because they're gonna benefit from it. And here's what you should do, sit down with an investment calculator, show them what this money will turn into when they retire to 63. And they're gonna go, oh my gosh, mom,

you didn't give me $3,000, you just gave me $150,000. That'll get them investing. I love that play. I'm starting to do that with my kids and they're starting to pay attention a little bit So I love that advice uncle George will come over I'll show him the ropes We need more uncle George around the house. All right folks Appreciate you being with us. This is the Ramsey show The The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential.

That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show, Front Row Seat, is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never-ending desire to learn and grow. Each week, I'll be joined by industry leaders and world-class experts to have a conversation

about how to get better, move up, and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio, we'll have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions, like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life,

and discover your next steps to grow. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge, and inspire you. Check out Front Row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.