The Ramsey Show - You'll Never Build a Strong Future On A Shaky Foundation

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

📈⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a Free Personalized Plan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "What's the best way to teach our adopted daughter financial responsibility?" "How do I navigate my finances after a divorce?" "Can I invest in a side hustle while in Baby Step 2?" "Should I pay off my $400,000 business loan?" "My parents don't support my dream of becoming a fire fighter..." "My husband hid $75,000 of debt from me and won't talk about it. Can our marriage survive this?" "We won $1M on a scratch off and wonder what our first steps should be." "I'm 26 and drowning in $250,000 of debt, how do I get out of this?" "Is it time to call it quits on my business?" "I'm my mother's power of attorney, what should I do with her investments?" "I'm 64 with $80,000 in retirement and I was just laid off, what do I do next?" "Should I refinance my house to build a rental on my property?" "Do I keep fighting for my dad’s business or walk away?" "The home we purchased is costing more than we anticipated. How do we financially attack this while paying off debt?" Next Steps: ✔️⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Help us make the show better. Please take this short survey.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📞 Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET or⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠send us an email.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📱 Get episodes early in the free Ramsey Network app!  💵⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! 📈 For help with investing, get connected with a SmartVestor Pro.⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🏠 ⁠⁠Find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent⁠⁠ ⛓️‍💥 ⁠⁠Tired of debt? Grab Breaking Free From Broke now!⁠⁠ Connect with our Sponsors: Stop paying more and start shopping smarter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠ALDI⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 10% off your first month of⁠⁠⁠⁠ BetterHelp⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠Boost Mobile⁠⁠⁠⁠ to switch today! Learn more about⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christian Healthcare Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started today with⁠⁠⁠⁠ Churchill Mortgage⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 20% off when you join ⁠⁠⁠⁠DeleteMe⁠⁠⁠⁠ Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠ FAIRWINDS Credit Union⁠⁠⁠⁠ for an exclusive account bundle! Find top Health Insurance Plans at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Health Trust Financial⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code RAMSEY to save 20% at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Mama Bear Legal Forms⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠ NetSuite⁠⁠⁠⁠ today to learn more For more information, go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠SimpliSafe⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use promo code RAMSEY for 18% off at ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Nokbox⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get started with ⁠⁠⁠⁠YRefy⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 844-2-RAMSEY Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠ Zander Insurance⁠⁠⁠⁠ for your free instant quote today!  Explore more from Ramsey Network: 💸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ramsey Show Highlights⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🧠 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Dr. John Delony Show⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🍸 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Smart Money Happy Hour⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💡 ⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rachel Cruze Show⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💰 ⁠⁠⁠⁠George Kamel⁠⁠⁠⁠ 🪑 ⁠⁠⁠⁠Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📈 ⁠⁠⁠⁠EntreLeadership⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of SmartVestor Pros. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one bestselling author and host of the new hit, runaway hit on Ramsey Network, it's called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us America. Jasmine is in Austin, Texas. Hi Jasmine, how are you? Better than I deserve, but I could share you some advice. I hear you.

We'll try. How can we help? I am halfway through baby step three and the other characters in my question are my ex-husband who's a good guy but a bad financial role model and our daughter who we adopted through foster care who's about to turn 18. Since we adopted her through foster care who's about to turn 18. Since we adopted her through foster care she receives a stipend or will we receive a stipend for her care every month and we've just gotten approval based on some special needs for her for that stipend to be not only continued to the age of 21 but also increased fairly significantly and I am really excited to use that as a tool to empower her financially help her, you know, start

out really strong. Kind of exciting that you're on here. I actually she I convinced her to read Paycheck to Purpose with me last year when she was looking for her first job. She did it, but she decided she wanted to start with Paycheck and didn't really care about the purpose at that point. That's not abnormal. But I have hopes. I have hopes. And so, yeah, I know that you talk a lot about financial education with kids, but it feels

a little bit different. And my co-parent has very reasonably pointed out that if you just give a teenager a bunch of money every month, that's not helping them. And yeah, what's the best way to handle this? Well Ken, as it would be, happens to have two of his three are adopted and in the same age group as well. All right. So he's the man today. Well, no, not true. But I think that with your child,

I would give them enough money to fail and it not be spectacular. In other words, not the whole stipend, but I would give them enough that you can do some teaching. And one of the things I've learned, as with all kids, they all have different personalities. The Three Ramsey kids are all different in how they handle money.

And that's true of my boys and of course my daughter. And so with our oldest, he's 18, same as yours, and letting him make those mistakes and get to a place where he wants something or he wants to do something. And of course, we're monitoring his accounts and all that. And the biggest moments for us have been, and this is tough for Stacey, I'll be very candid, like she wants to be more hands-on.

And I have a little bit more hands-off approach because when he's broke, it's amazing, Dave, how my words tend to ring a little clearer. And the humility increases with the bank account decreasing. It does. It does. And I also don't have to say, I told you so. I just have to say, here's the reality. And I'm able to go, hey, you're a spender.

And I'm able to talk through basic things. So I would start with give, save, spend. You know, the little banks that we've been popular forever with Ramsey Solutions. I think those three pieces of the pie are really great to teach. And I would model it first, pull back on a lot of the heavy teaching

and look for instruction moments, much like a coach would if I'm playing a sport and the coach sees me mess a play up there's the best opportunity for a coach to step in and say hey the reason you drop the ball is you took your eye off the ball and you turned up field before you saw the ball come into your hands. That's the approach that I would take because DNA is powerful and in this, there's a lot of history because now we adopted out of foster. And so she, is it a daughter?

Is that right? Daughter, yeah. Yeah, so one of the things I would be very sensitive to, not sensitive and I'm afraid to talk about it, but sensitive to become very aware of her past story and how whatever has been her story up to this point when you adopted her, how would those experiences affect the way she looks at money? And I think that could be the greatest way to teach the Ramsey principles, the give,

save, spend, the live on a budget, all that, but within the context of what maybe she thinks about money. And my guess is she has a scarcity mindset and you going into it understanding why she may react that way is going to give you more patience, more grace, and more mercy. So you said a special need. What's the nature of the special need? I'd rather not try to describe it. But college isn't on the table for her, but at least not right now, but like a community college.

Is she able to sustain a career and create a sustainable life? God, Dave, I hope so. She's got a fighting chance. Based on the special need is what I'm asking. Right, yeah. If she doesn't, it won't be directly and completely because of that. Okay, that's all I'm asking Okay, I don't need to know anything else. That's so so yeah, then then

What but it's amazing if you've got a kid that is a valedictorian. I still would approach it with give some save some Spend some wisely earn money and have a written plan to do all of those. All three of those, and that's called a budget. And those are very basic things. You can teach a six-year-old a version of that. You can teach a 16-year-old a 26-year-old a version of that. And the further she gets up the age range towards having 100% control of this money

whether you want it or not, like at 21, the more you're going to have to be discussing this with her like the child of a friend of yours who came to you for advice. You would not have any authoritarian power. Your only power would be persuasion. On that note, would you be willing to unpack this idea of letting her fail because that feels so scary? Non-fatal failure. We opened a checking account, Rachel Cruz bounced three checks the first month. Oh yeah, that's not spectacular. Here's another one. You know, you go, hey, you pay for your gas.

Now that you've got a car and you start paying for gas. So he comes back from college and guess what? He's broke, because he didn't start a job right away. That's a fail. In other words, he's like, I can't drive. So my friends are picking me up. So he had to call his friends and go, I'm literally unable to drive because I have no gas money.

This happened the first week this summer. And that's a fail, because he didn't plan for that. because I have no gas money. This happened the first week this summer. And that's a fail because he didn't plan for that and he spent too much money. And he didn't work at college last semester. And I said, I think you need to. And Ken doesn't own a helicopter. I do not.

So he didn't helicopter in. I didn't. And so that's a fail in a fun way. In other words, he was frustrated. He's like, dad, I can't go. And I go, well, when's your next paycheck? And guess who is thriving now all of a sudden and realizing if I want to do something fun,

that's not in the category of mom and dad. I don't pay for fun, okay? And so what I mean by let them fail is let them be broke. Let them not be able to go to something. And then he learns, I should probably go get a job because mom and dad are no longer paying for it. That's what I mean.

Or I did not set money and savings the way that I was coached to do and so then something happens and I don't have the money to fix it or run it or buy it or whatever it is that can't go on that trip or whatever it is they haven't got the money for because they didn't follow the plan you gave them to follow. This falls in the category of parents them to follow. My favorite. This falls in the category of parents. Natural consequences. Natural consequences.

Mark Twain said, he talked about the 18-year-old who went away to college, completely convinced that his dad was a moron, came back four years later, astonished at how much his dad had learned. Classic Mark Twain. You know? Tell them, but then let them do it. See how it ends up. Life is unpredictable.

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take care of it today. Go to mamabarelegalforms.com. Use the promo code RAMSY to save 20 percent. That's 20 percent off with code RAMSY at mamabarelegalforms.com. Allison is in Gainesville, Georgia. Hi Allison, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yes, sir. So thank you so much for picking up my phone call. Currently. I'm in a bit of a bind. Um, my husband decided to leave our marriage on March 2nd, and, um, he was our breadwinner and he has taken our money and

it's just a really sad situation. So right now I'm in the middle of an unexpected divorce. I'm having, I have my family financially support me through this. I am in nursing school. I am 90% done with it I've picked up two full-time jobs And I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate this divorce financially to allow myself some financial independence Once I graduate and moving forward How long have you all been married on? We will be married four years in August, but I've been with him since

I was 16, and this was very, very much so, not like him. Okay. And you said he took all of the money. What does that mean? He makes a little over $6,000 a month. And half of that is disability checks from the VA in regards to PTSD and other things. Was there any actual savings account or money that he took? Yes, there was $52,000 and I moved six of that and went to move the rest and he got the rest of it overnight and he has spent it since he's left. Wow. Do you not have an attorney?

I do have an attorney, but right now it's a really kind of drawn out process that we have the temporary court and he already violated the temporary order, not paying his portion of things. And every time I save up at the nest egg, it gets depleted by paying the bills like the car insurance, and stuff that I have to have to maintain my job and my schooling. Yeah. So it sounds like your attorney needs to dial up the heat. Yes.

I really want, because your husband in the state of Georgia does not have rights to half of the money or to all of the money he only has rights to half of it correct and so I want the rest of it coming to you now and I don't believe you and I don't believe you spent the other I don't believe you spent the other money I think that's a lie well I will tell you that I have seen some extra spending and I can tell you that out of about 30 of that, 15 has been spent on extracurricular activities, clothes, guns, weapons that he should not be having. Well, listen, I want the guns then so I can sell them.

Yeah. Because he spent my money on them. So your lawyer needs to be b in some chops, kiddo. Okay, that's thing one. Because you're not, he doesn't have the power to do all this stuff unless you all stand by and watch him do it and do nothing about it. So you get what you tolerate in that part of it. Now as far as putting him and this mess in the rear view mirror, you're working two jobs, you're going to nursing school,

congratulations, great choices. That sounds like a really good way. Your family's helping you right now till you can get on your feet and get the other side of this tragedy, this mess. But if you just stay on the track that you're on in one year, you're going to be in a really much better place than you are today, agreed? Yes, and I agree. And that's where I'm trying to stay focused on. But the frustration lies in that I'm putting money into the savings account for me, but he has already agreed not to touch and move moving forward.

No, don't put any money into savings. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do you not have separate accounts? Do not put any money on anything that he gets access to, ever. Yes, no, I moved. I moved everything. So it's, he doesn't have access to this new bank. Yeah, absolutely. And you just take care of you and moving forward and then you go get your half of what he screwed off with. But I mean, you may have a great gun collection for a little while until you get it sold. That's okay. I literally would back the pickup up over there

with a court order and clean out his gun safe. I know how to hurt a redneck. I'm just saying. Sometimes you say things that I really, really find entertaining and that was a great one. I really know how to hurt a redneck, Dave Ramsey. Allison, what is your income right now with these two jobs? I make about $2200-$2500 a month. One job is stable, the other job is home health care, so I just pick up the emergency shifts that are needed for people. And so it's good to

have this solid one and then the other one just to, you know. How long before you finish nursing school? I have till May of next year and then I'll graduate. And I've already spoken to a lender to kind of give me an idea of what I'll need with the new repaying job with the degree to get the house in my name. But that's, you know, far away.

You know what, I'm not really worried about that house. I'm fine if you just sell that house. I'm in the same boat. I have nowhere else to go. Yeah, you do. Sure you do. There's lots of houses in Georgia. Yeah, you can rent.

You got apartments. There's lots of things. You don't need that house. Well, I have come to figure out that I can quick, I think it's called quick claim deed the house. So the house is $1,300 right now. No, you can't, hon. Okay? You really may need a new lawyer. Your lawyer may be an idiot. If you quit claim deed the house to him, you are still on the mortgage.

Sure. With an idiot. No. Absolutely we're not doing that. Absolutely we're not doing that. Do not refinance it in my name once I graduate. Don't keep the house. Force the sale of the house. And put the money in your pocket to start your new life with. Go rent you a one bedroom and go be a nurse

and work 80 hours a week and make 150 to $200,000 a year your first year from May on. And now let's start talking about buying a house. But I promise you, you would not buy that house. Three years from today and you're sitting on $50,000 or $60,000 as a down payment and you're debt free because you're following Ramsey stuff and you're looking out the windshield and occasionally glancing up in the rear view mirror laughing that that guy's gone.

And when that is you three years from today, you are not living in that house. You wouldn't go pick that house. Three years from today, Allison would not buy that house. That's hanging on to something that you don't need to hang on to. I'd let that thing go. But don't let him keep it either. Force the sale of it and put the equity in your pocket.

Oh, and by the way, that's a way you could recoup the part of the 50 grand in the savings account that he stole. You can get that back out of the equity. His portion. So in regards to the equity, we bought it in May of last year. We refinanced it in February and it gave us an extra $300 a month to put back into our pocket now that we both weren't working full-time. So we agreed to do that. So obviously there's no equity in the home. Oh, okay. Well, so much for the equity.

So if you fill the house, you'd be right. Well, one more reason you don't want it. Yeah. Right. Sell it to get rid of the problem. So if you sell the house, you get the price. Well, one more reason you don't want it. Right. Sell it to get rid of the problem. That's right. I just don't want to incur any more debt because we're going to be under if I sell the house. Maybe. We're not going to get... Maybe.

Yeah. Maybe. So far you've only collected your information from him and Zillow. You need like a real real estate agent and a court order demanding that you all sell this house. And I think you're going to get enough out of it to break even or more I thought you had a bunch of equity I'm sorry but um earlier in discussion but anyway yeah but now now that you don't have any equity it's a super big deal don't keep it you don't want a house up to your eyeballs and a brand new nurse just

finishing up and by the way how you gonna pay the payments from now until then? No, thank you Let's get rid of this thing Well, the the agreement was so with the court order is that he was going back to paying the full amount of mortgage And so I agree to some other that's a temporary thing. That's not the divorce settlement I just I know there's other houses but my thing is if I have I have to wait until I get that degree in order to be able to get an apartment apartments around here

requires bull crap no no no no no no no absolutely a lie nope nope somebody else told you where are you gathering your information? You're not actually... Listen, we sat down, we have the Ramsey personality sit down and call apartment complexes. They call 40 of them. Three said you needed to prove with a credit score your ability to rent. The rest of them said if you put up a deposit and come over here and sign a lease and you show us that you're working and making $2,500 a month and you can show that, then they're going to let you move into an apartment. You are way running.

Listen, don't make decisions based on fear. Part of what this has done is it's made you afraid and you're splashing around. Some of the things you're doing are very good and other things you're doing is out of desperation and fear. Do not keep a house you can't afford because you think you can't rent an apartment. That's a lie. Sell that house and make him sell it. Don't let him keep it.

You don't want to stay on that mortgage. And this guy can't refinance because he's not smart enough. Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us. So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info. Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data

floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in phishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment. So that's why George and I both use and love DeleteMe. Yes, DeleteMe scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene we all need.

We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for. Exactly, and this is not being paranoid, this is staying protected.

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If you like what you're hearing, we would appreciate some help. How can you help? Well, you click the follow button, you click the subscribe button, you click the share button or you cut out the link and you share it with someone. If you're listening on talk radio, you tell people where you're listening and when you're listening and that the Ramsey Show is giving you information and inspiration that's helping you.

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So instead of believing what you're seeing on the internet, why don't you actually look at the facts? Here's an idea. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash market and we've got all the information there. For instance, at this moment there's 1,036,000 or 1,036,101 homes on the market in America. That's the actual number. It's the most homes on the market since 2019. So, and we've got more buyers activated in the market right now than we've seen and so we're not seeing prices go down for the third month in the row we've seen the median house prices go up in America. Current

median house price is $441,000. Now they've not gone up a lot in the last three months but they're going up every month. Interest rates are sitting steady, right below 6%. They're like they're frozen there. And 15-year fixed rates, $5.95 right now. And so it has been for like a month and a half two months. So this market is a very predictable environment to put something on the market and sell it. That's the kind of stuff this data tells you and you get with a good real estate agent that actually knows her stuff that's high octane high high protein and gets it done.

RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes. Dawn is in Louisville Kentucky. Hi Dawn, how are you? I'm good. I am currently in the early stages of baby step two. And I know in order for me to pay off my debt that I'm going to need to get a good side hustle. And I want to turn it into something more than a side hustle. I recently became a commission notary public, and I'm wanting to add to the services that I offer and become a loan signing agent. A what? You want to become a what?

A loan signing agent. A loan signing agent. Yes, sir. You are on the internet. There's no such thing. Yes it is. They help real estate agents close with their closings. No they don't. Real estate agents don't use that. You read that on the internet. Somebody's trying to sell you a course aren't they? And National Notary Association. Yeah, yeah. There's no big money in notarizing stuff either. It's like 15 bucks a squeeze. It's not a big deal.

And so no, there are closing agents and they work for title companies and or law firms that close real estate transactions. Real estate agents use those closing agents to run the payoffs down and to get the paperwork lined up, get the title searches done, and they don't work for real estate agents. They work for a title company and or a law firm that has a title company. And that's who closes real estate loans and transactions. Real estate agents don't have loan closing agents. There's no such thing.

Loan signing agents, is that what you called it? Yes, loan signing agents. How much is the course they're trying to sell you? How much it cost? About $300. That's about $300 I just saved you. You don't believe me. Listen, here's what you need to do. You need to get off the phone and you need to call six real estate agents whose signs you see all over the place and ask them if they use a loan signing agent or a closing agent. They do not. Everyone I'm going to tell you this thing doesn't exist.

I've had my real estate license since 1978. I own hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate. I have never even heard of what the flip you're talking about Okay, and so it just doesn't exist hon And this is just one of those internet things where they're trying to get money out of you to get you to go get a class To do some side hustle that doesn't really exist and it's it's um You know we used to see that stuff in the back of comic books, but um no You know, we used to see that stuff in the back of comic books, but no. Did you just type it in over there while I heard you typing?

I did. I did. What's it come up? AI says it's a thing. A Loan Signing Agent is a notary, also known as a notary signing agent, specialized notary public who facilitates the final stages of a loan process. Yep. That's a notary public saying that, but they don't do it.

There's no actual thing out there. That AI picked that up on Google straight off those stinking people's websites. What happened? That's right. Well, there's multiple links here that are all- All selling a course. Essentially, yeah. Yeah.

But I defy you to find a real estate agent that has one on staff. I promise you. Yeah, I was trying to think what we did when we went to an actual law firm is where we went on our last house. In Tennessee, a lot of the title companies are run by law firms. But in other places, sometimes just the title company does it. Or sometimes in a small town, just the title company does it. It's not unusual for a law firm to be involved as the escrow agent or whatever, but believe me, they have a notary on staff.

A notary is squeeze. That's it. That's what you do. It's not a thing. It's just put their little emblem on there and witness the signatures. It's not a thing. So I've been a notary most of my life. I finally dropped it because I just didn't have any need for it

even when we got six in the building here. But yeah. I think that'd be funny for me to bring my documents to you, have you notarize them. That'd be kind of fun. Well that has happened in years past at Ramsey, but not anymore.

Really? Well somebody's selling their car, they want the car title notarized, I got the notary in my thing, I sign it. That's fun. Watch them sign it. No charge for Dave. I do think there's, to your point, there's just,

if I'm you, Don, I'm gonna go get a better pain side hustle. Yes. That's the play. And your mind is in the right space. I just think there's better bang for your time on that. Yeah, quit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can go do something that's like real. You know, like, you know, here's the thing, you can make about 50 bucks an hour

right now cleaning houses. And that's a whole lot more than you can make doing this. You make $40 an hour depending on which neighborhood you're in in Louisville, Kentucky, right? Okay? If you're a teacher, you can make $50 to $75 an hour tutoring after school. You don't want to go be a notary. You want to be a tutor. Go do something like that that's pretty, I would rather you have told me that you bought a set of clippers on Amazon and now you cut dog's hair. Because that's a real thing and you actually would make money doing that. By the way, you're right. You're talking about an average of $20 an hour for a notary.

An average. Yeah, but you don't even get an hour. I know. That's my point. It takes about 45 seconds. Yeah, and you can make way more money doing something else. Yeah, you don't get an hour out of that. If you notarize an hour's worth of papers, you're going to have a callous.

I mean, that's just not... There's no such... I mean, that's a phone book. That doesn't work that way. So guys, since I've been on the air, there have been scam artists of various kinds selling careers that don't exist or that have very minimal. The number of people that have become medical transcriptionists is like probably a hundred or a thousand fold the actual need. Because they read somewhere that if you become a medical transcriptionist that you make no, no, no.

There's not that big a need. There's a need, but if there's a big enough need, a doctor just hires one and work in his office. I mean, it's just not like this massive union out there of medical transcriptionists who just run around. It just doesn't, you know, but boy, a lot of people spend a lot of money doing that. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand, and it leaves too many families unprotected.

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Joe is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Joe, how are you? Good, good. How can we help? Yeah, so when I got out of college a couple years ago, I bought a business on land contracts. And I'm now in a position to pay it off. My accountant told me not to, but I know sometimes you say not to follow accountant's advice, so I just wondered what I should do.

Okay, you understand that a land contract you don't own anything yet? Yeah, gotcha. So your accountant is suggesting that you don't stay in an ownership position. You're in a very unstable and vulnerable position and your accountant suggested you stay there. Because the business is not titled to you. Right, yeah, until I pay it off. I know. I know how a land contract works, yeah. That's what I'm telling you. And so your accountant is a fool. You need to fire him.

Okay, okay. Do you have the money to pay this off? Yeah, about five 50 in the account and the balance is four 50 on the loan. What are you doing? What's your business? I've got a store. Selling what? Um, jewelry, things like that. Watches. Man, you're killing it. Way to go! How old are you?

Twenty-four. So you rolled into a gold mine, no pun intended. I did. I feel very blessed for what God has given me. Yeah, and you're obviously working your butt off. Congratulations. So how long ago did you do this deal? About two years.

And in two years, you put 550k in the bank? Yeah, we profited about 480 last year and we're on track to profit about 500 this year. Dude, you are an absolute stud. I wasn't lucky. You've been, hey luck comes dressed in work clothes, man. Yeah. You've been getting it luck comes dressed in work clothes, man. You've been getting it, and you've learned the business and you're managing the business well. I'm dead serious. If I woke up in your shoes, I'd fire my accountant. He gave you bad legal advice and bad tax advice.

Let me walk you through both, okay? One is the guy that owns the store right now is not you. You are contracted to own the store, and this store is printing money. If he decides to go sideways and not give you this, you're going to have to sue him for title, because you don't have the title to this business yet. So it's very important from a legal vulnerability position that you get this store into your name before this guy looks up and realizes you're bailing money over there. Yeah.

Okay. Or worse than that, he has two glasses of wine at dinner and hits somebody head on and they sue him for $2 million and one of his assets goes to the family that was hit head on and one of the assets is your store because it's not your store it's his store oh that's true yeah yeah you're vulnerable big time so your accountant is a fool the second thing is your accountant is telling you to keep this loan that's not really a loan because you can write off the interest correct well he said because at the write off the interest, correct?

Well, he said because at the end of the year my tax bill will be due. He said I don't want to drain the accounts too much because I'm going to owe like $150 to $200 in taxes. You're going to have plenty of money, aren't you? This is July. True. Yeah, I've got five more months to make some money. You'll be okay.

And you've got $550. You only need $480 plus $1.50. Right. You'll be there. Okay. And he's not, so he wasn't telling you to keep it because the interest is a write-off? No, no. He's just afraid you won't have the money to pay your taxes.

By the way, you've got until April to pay your taxes, not the end of the year. Oh, that's right, yeah, they do April 15th or something? Exactly. So yeah, I'm really scared when someone that I'm counting on to give me good advice gives me bad advice, that means I need someone else to give me good advice. I believe in getting good advice, and the multitude of counsel their safety the Bible says but yeah Wow, I I don't think you were clear enough on that You think I held back yeah, I'd like to give Joe a little bit more not my day to hold back No, I think it's good signed up for that this morning today Joe like paid off today. Yeah, like you're asleep

I signed up for that this morning. Today, Joe, like pay it off today. Yeah, like you're gonna sleep really well. Like crews of business. Now I would go over there with a cashier's check and make sure he signs the paperwork into your name before I put my head on a pillow tonight. Run by the bank, get you a cashier's check right now, go pay the man.

That's gonna feel good. Oh man, well I feel good just talking to Joe. He's just in here. You're 24 years old, he's making 480 last year. Yeah. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Selling some jewelry.

It was very ho-hum about that. But in America today there's systemic problems and the corporations have all the money and the little man can't. Oh shut up! Look at Joe. Let me just tell you, Joe's getting her done, man. I like it. Anthony! Anthony's in Boston. Hey Anthony, how are you? Hey Dave, I'm great. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? Great, thanks for taking my call. I'm really looking for some career advice here. So I'm 26 years old, living in Boston, currently work in corporate America. But my real passions in firefighting, which I've been doing part time since 2018. And recently, I got the opportunity to get hired by a full time department where I grew up. The issue is, is my parents who I've always kind of turned for financial and career advice don't support support this decision. And they say I'm leaving potential on the table because I could be using my degrees making four times as much in corporate America

So I'm wondering if you think I should fall my passion and you know have a lower wage throughout my career four times Yeah, what do you make now? So right now we're making 85 What's your degree? I have my MBA. Yeah, but what's your path? If you play this out, mom and dad, does mom and dad's prediction match up to the actual path that you have corporately? I'd say so, yeah. It's a company I'm at right now. And you would make how much and how many?

Quarter million dollars a year. Just about, yeah. That's what my managers make so, how long did it take to get there? About 10 to 12 years, is where I'm at right now. Yeah, forget it. Plus or minus BS. What are you going to make as a firefighter? I just looked up on the internet, but I want to know what you know. What's the average?

So, I actually have inside of the union contract where I'll be getting hired and my base salary will be around 80, but it'll only increase about 2 to 3% every year. So that's where they see it being an issue if I want to have a family in the expensive market that Boston is. The firefighters that I know typically work 4 10s or three 12s? Correct, yeah, this would be one on, one off, one on, five days off. So that's another thing I have my ability to do.

So use your MBA and do what all the other firefighters I know do and start a side business. Yeah, but what about overtime? That 84 or 80 base, what's your overtime possibilities? So right now it's a lot. So yeah, it could be an extra 15 to 30 grand a year on average. Yeah, I'm seeing multiple sources that have a range of 84 to 134, and these are legitimate like job sites.

I mean, so this isn't like, you know, so you got an opportunity. Here's the point that I would make. You can do very well through what Dave said, side hustles on that downtime or overtime, and if you invest wisely, you're only 26, do you have any debt at all? No debt and I'm pretty good at that. Then I'm going to tell you this right now, you will resent your mother and father if you do what they wish for you. Now, I think their heart is in the right place, they want the best for you, but in this case, this is a open and closed case for me

that you should pursue being a fireman and pursue the life that you wanna live because you're gonna be a very unhappy, regretful and resentful person if you play this out as mom and dad want you to. And for that reason, I would say no, don't do what mom and dad tell you there. And I'll reiterate and say, there was something you were scratching when you went and got

the MBA other than just following their wishes. And so you probably have pretty serious business acumen. And there's no reason you can't start a side hustle that probably doubles your income. Again, I know a lot of firefighters we work with over the years. And it's not unusual for one of them to have a business that makes as much as they make being a fireman. Because of the way your schedule works, you've just got tons of time to do it, to work on stuff.

So I really would pursue that. But I just say love you, Mom and Dad, and I just think I'm going to go this way. And the good news about being 28 is they have an opinion but they don't get a vote. I get it, switching banks is a pain in the you-know-what, but if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to fair wins. Credit union. Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke, charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards, and telling you debt is normal. And that's why I only work with folks who help you

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that's built to help you win with money. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and open your smart bundle today. Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCU. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the runaway hit Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. I got to tell you, Ken, one of my favorite episodes and one of my favorite people, become a good friend recently, just dropped I guess today.

Yeah, this morning. On Front Row Seat. He's moved to our area here and he and I have become friends during the time he's been here. A guy named Jimmy John and yes that's the sandwich. And yes he did sell that organization for billions with an S and yes he has some really great stories. You have to watch this episode of Front Row Seat. You will be blown away. You will learn something, you will laugh, and I dare say you will probably cry. You will cry. And I will tell you, if you have a kid, a teenager, a college student

who's thinking entrepreneurial, working for themselves, if you yourself have got a side hustle trying to get out of debt, watch this episode, it'll put fire under you because this guy started off with absolutely nothing and sheer hustle. And all kinds of obstacles and it's a great American success story. That's exactly right. And he's a good guy.

Oh, he's a joy to listen to. Yeah, it's just funny, he's a fun storyteller. So you're gonna love this episode. Front Row Seat, and you can find it on podcasts and YouTube both. And this episode, I think that episode dropped today row seat and you can find it on podcast and YouTube both. And this episode, I think that episode dropped today. And we taped one yesterday with me and John Maxwell and Pat Lynchione. And those two guys are like walking encyclopedias on leadership and so it, and I, me and Ken got to watch them. I mean, it was like gold. It

was gold. So I was there for the comedy relief and they were there for the talent. But man, it was incredible. Dave dropped some dimes. They all did. It's gonna be special. It's gonna be special. That one, after you finish with the edit,

will be great. I don't know, we're kicking the idea around of releasing it in two parts. Here's the first hour, here's the second hour, because there were no edits necessary. They were just gold. Here's the first hour, here's the second hour, because there were no edits necessary. They were just old. Oh, you're right. There's some stuff. All right. Jennifer is in Boston. Hey, Jennifer, how are you? I am fantastic. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? Awesome. Well, I have a question about how to move forward after financial infidelity. I found out in the fall about a hundred thousand dollars of debt that I didn't know about and we have paid it off. We're in baby step three. We're about halfway through baby step three right now with about 25,000. What was that used to purchase? It was credit cards that I didn't know about and also tax debt. What was the credit card? What was purchased on the credit cards? My husband was laid off and was using a credit card for a time span that I did not know about. Okay, so he was handling 100% of the household money.

Correct. And the way he covered the lack of income was he borrowed for the family on credit cards Exactly, and you didn't know about it because you're not involved in the handling of the money. I Was not at that time since I found out about that. We have combined finances. I insisted upon that I insisted on counseling. I insisted on a budget and we use every dollar budgeting app, but he hates the budget He says sharing accounts and the budget are the worst decision he's ever made. He doesn't track expenses. He undermines the budget by going on solo trips and spending when and where he wants. Every question about the budget turns into a huge argument, the threats of leaving,

and the perception of others is incredibly important. So even having a budget is embarrassing to him and I don't know if we can get past this. I don't know how to get on the same page. I don't know how. I don't know what to do. How is therapy done? I'm sorry. Um, it hasn't gone well. He hates going to therapy because when he goes to therapy he feels like a failure. Because he's failing, yeah. It causes you to feel like a failure. When you're failing at your marriage and because you do whatever the flip you want to do regardless of the

implications of it, then that would be embarrassing in therapy. That makes sense. That's logical. It's kind of like eating 17 donuts and then going and seeing your trainer. You know, I mean it's like, yeah, it doesn't go well. Okay. Well, I, you know, this is not a financial problem, hon. It's a marriage problem. It's manifesting itself. It's manifesting itself in the finances. But it's a I want to do what I want to do thing and I don't want to be aligned with and be in agreement with anyone else. I don't want anyone else speaking into any of my decisions. I don't really want to be married is what he's actually saying, I'm afraid. I hope not, I hope I'm wrong, but that's kinda what the,

you know, Deloney taught me a saying when I'm hanging out with him, his PhD in counseling, he says, behavior is a language. I say that all the time. And that's what this is, is what I'm seeing. Regardless of what you're saying, it's what you do. And what he's doing is screaming, you know, I don't really want to build a life together. I want to be able to do whatever I want to do when I want to do it, like a four-year-old on the cereal aisle throwing a fit because they want fruit loops.

I agree. It's very immature what you're describing. Because you can be mature and say, hey, part of putting the budget together is I want to have money to do X. And that's a fair argument. But instead just going, well, I don't really like this. It's the worst decision I've ever made because it's actually somebody holding me accountable now for my ridiculous behaviors So Cali, that's so sad. I'm so sorry

Well, I you know, I think the answer is in your pastor's office and in your marriage counselor's office That if the two of you can solve for building a future together rather than Trying to be roommates. Hey Jennifer, do you know enough about his past to know if he comes from an entitlement? Very much so. I had a sense of that. I am no therapist, don't want to try to be one, but I'm just, I got a hunch. I would talk to the therapist about this, get some real professional insight, a pastor as well. But I think it's, do you want to, if this

marriage could be fixed, would you do whatever it takes? Absolutely. Okay. I wouldn't have stayed with the lie. That's what I thought, okay. I mean, he's been lying since the beginning of our marriage. I had a hunch that he- How long have you been married?

Six years. Okay. Let me finish this thought, Jennifer. Okay, I just wanted to get to you. How long have you been married? Six years. Okay. Let me finish this thought Jennifer. Okay, I just wanted to get to you. Yeah, no, I had a hunch and I don't know why I had that hunch, but I had a hunch that he came from entitlement and I think if it were me with guidance, I would draw a line in the sand and put him in a situation where he realizes he's got to decide.

I think he's threatened you before to leave and I think that's a spoiled brat play. It feels very entitled and I don't know that he doesn't need his bluff called. And I think it's that serious. But I'd get some other insight on that. I'm not talking about a threat, but I mean a real boundary, a line in the sand.

If you don't change, this is done. I don't think he's ever had any consequences in his life. I talked to somebody about that. That's just a home. His mommy's a helicopter, right? Just, they're perfect. He's perfect. Yeah, that sounds right.

The latest argument from this weekend was because I just realized that after months month, he still hasn't switched his direct deposit over so that it's going into our joint account. Yeah. Well, I would have realized that the first week, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's the marriage counseling office that this gets saved, kid.

It's not here. I'm sorry. Sorry you're facing this. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life can get messy and work can be stressful. We all know this. And when our work lives and our regular lives collide, our minds and our bodies feel it. There's a ton of research about the impact of workplace stress and bad bosses on your mental and emotional health.

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Hi, how are you guys? Thank you for taking my phone call. Sure. How can we help? A few questions. Mainly, me and my husband were blessed about three weeks ago when he just went into the local gas station and just grabbed a random scratch off lottery ticket. Ended up being a one million dollar scratch off ticket.

You gotta be kidding me. Are you for real? Yes, yes. We're still in shock. Tell me really quick, how did he tell you? What was that like? really quick. How did that, how did he tell you? What was that like? Oh, I'm confused. I was completely confused. He, I don't know, he panicked. He couldn't make, he couldn't even make a sentence. He panicked. Exactly. He ran home, which was only just a couple blocks away and I

Forgot the car. I don't understand. Yeah, where was the car? That's great. No, well he drove home. He drove home. Oh, I'm kidding. He probably shouldn't have because he was so, so home. That's so funny. Wow.

Okay, so you've been in contact with the state, I assume. Yes. We just claimed it about a week ago. We tried to do our research. We are way in over ahead. It ends up being, we both agreed to take the lump sum, which ends up being $600,000, which we are still happy and feel very blessed to have that. It's more than you had the week before.

Now you have a different appreciation for taxes, don't you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now, that's the lump sum because the million was a payout over a number of years, but that's not net of taxes, correct? No. After we finally receive it, which should probably be another month or so, and after taxes, it ends up being a little bit over $400,000.

Yeah. Yeah. Hello. And who told you that? Who told you that? Oh, when we went to go claim it, they broke it all down for us. I mean, that's kind of what I found out in my research. The state told you that?

Yeah. Okay. No, no, no, no. Stop. Okay, stop. So first thing we're going to do is get a tax professional. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.

To find out what's real and what's not there. And the state of Illinois has a tax and, of course, the federal government has a tax in the United States. So, but you need a tax professional that can sit down and work it all through. We don't research numbers this big We don't research information on the internet Everything on the internet is true Abraham Lincoln said that Not so you get bad information there and you get bad information when you use

Bureaucrats at the state who hand out lottery proceeds. They're not tax professionals So it's gonna be worth a thousand dollars or whatever it is 500 bucks to get some professional tax advice. That's your first thing you do and you can get one just going to RamseySolutions.com find an ELP and endorsed local provider that does taxes that is Ramsey trusted that we have vetted and we know what they're doing and they need to go and you need to feel very calm and peaceful when you leave their office after having Learned about what the actual taxes are and they can show you know just a few minutes to the penny Okay, I think the numbers you got

Yeah, I think the numbers you got might have been aggressive. I don't think your taxes are gonna be quite that bad But they are going to be bad Okay, yeah, so yeah, you're gonna learn about that then you figure out what you've got left after taxes think your taxes are going to be quite that bad, but they are going to be bad. Okay? Yeah. So, you're going to learn about that. Then you figure out what you've got left after taxes, and then what are you going to do? Two things that we planned on is we want to pay off the house, and we do have credit card debt. Okay, how much are those two things? The house is right

underneath a hundred thousand and then our credit card debt would be about twenty-three thousand. Okay, I like those plans. Those are good plans. Okay, and what do you drive? I drive a Kia. My husband and I both have cars that are completely paid off. I know. How old are they? How worn out are they? Mine's still in great condition, I think. It's a 2015 Kia. So you don't need to upgrade yours. What about his? I think he probably wants to upgrade his because it's starting to give him a little bit of car problems We've been having to fix it up a little bit. What is it? It's a 2017 Chevy, so Sort of a little bit newer, but it's like I said his is giving us a little issue lately

Okay, so you put a budget on that and you don't break that budget. What's your household income? Good question I believe he makes about $50,000 a year. I probably make a little under that $40,000 or $45,000 a year. So the people that have regrets and that people tell ugly stories about after they win the lotto are those that are not intentional. You have to be very careful and very intentional. So kind of what we're doing right now is what I would recommend and that is we begin to lay out before the money gets here after meeting with the tax person first thing we do is pay taxes, second thing we do is this, third thing we do is that, and so on.

And you basically have a budget, say we've got $500,000 or whatever the number is, and we spend that. So we spend $123,000, we put another $20,000 on car, so we spend $143,000. What are we going to do with this? We're going to give some, we're going gonna invest some, we're gonna invest a lot, and we're gonna go on with our lives by being on a budget and not tap into this money. And I don't care if you wanna go on a trip and celebrate,

I don't care if you wanna upgrade your couch, all of those things are fine. Those aren't the things that get lottery winners in trouble. The things that get lottery winners in trouble is when they get a half a million and they go spend five million. Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I want to be very careful. Like I said, I'm overwhelmed. I didn't know where to start.

The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. So we're going to write the number at the top of the page that we're getting after and then minus taxes and then minus house exactly minus credit cards and cut them up so they don't grow back. And don't walk around acting like you're rich because you're gonna figure out pretty quick you ain't rich. This is sweet and it's very nice and I'm happy for you

but you didn't get five million, you got 500,000. And it'll be gone in about an eye blink if you're not really, really careful. So I kind of want you to be not terrified and not paralyzed with fear, but I want you to have a healthy fear, a healthy respect of someone just handed you a loaded gun and you don't know anything about guns. Be very careful to learn. I have that fear already.

Okay. That is why I called you guys. I'm just scared if they'll be gone before we know it. No, no, no, no. You keep saying that. It won't be if you do what I'm talking about. If you write down where every one of these dollars, give them every a name before they come, we're going to put 150,000 in savings. We're going to spend 50,000 renovating this.

We're going to go on a cruise for 10,000. I don't care what it is as long as when you total it all up it equals the amount you're going to get and just make a list down the page until every dollar is going into something generosity investing fun upgrade car pay off credit cards trip. I'm making these things up. I don't know what they are, okay? But write them down, and then both of you look at that, and you've got a little time to get ready emotionally.

And so when the check comes, it's boring. Yeah. Because you just execute your little list. Right. And there's no emotion. There's no four-year-old dancing around the kitchen. We've already had that moment. That was pretty cool. I'm okay with that. But don't dance around the kitchen after you get the check and change your plan. Develop a

plan and then it's boring. You just execute the plan. Got it. Okay. Now the second person I'm gonna send you to is you need to sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, someone to help you learn about investing and decide where you're going to invest some of this. Yeah. Okay. I would really appreciate that because we really don't have much of a... Yeah, and they need to have the heart of a teacher and they can show you, okay, you could put this much into a Roth, you could put this much into a Roth you could put this much into this and you can start your mutual funds over here and so on. How old are you guys? 40. I'm 40 my husband's 39. If you invest $300,000 in seven years it'll be $600,000 and seven more years it'll be a million too and in seven more years it'll be 2.4.

Yeah, but you got to keep your stinking hands off of it and you got to invest it. So go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and sit down with someone with the heart of a teacher. You got a real opportunity to change your family tree if you're careful. George, I went my whole life avoiding being on the internet. And now everything I do in my life, my professional life, my personal life, everything's on the internet. And so now identity theft protection means the world to me and my family. And I'm the resident techie millennial here. So I've been

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worry about, one less thing to be anxious about and it lets me be a dad that sleeps at night. Yes and all you got to do is go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282 to protect your family with the most complete ID theft protection available. That's Xander.com So when it comes to cultural phenomenon, like things that are popular on television and things like that, you know, there's a whole curve you can look at on anything out there. There's early adopters, the people that are the first to the party, there's the early majority, the late majority. The last to the party on these things is called the laggards. And when it comes to cultural icon things like what's popular on television, since I don't watch television much, I'm

definitely a laggard. Like I was several years behind before I lost my man card watching Downton Abbey All my friends had already lost their man card watching Downton Abbey It was already a thing of the past by the time I got there. Yes, they saw but I watched them all I watch I was just a Lager and I just got there very very late. And so I distinctly remember in around the year 2000 when MTV was failing and they started that no one was

watching music videos anymore so they started putting on some teenagers on a thing they called a reality show just following teenagers around being teenagers and the second show I think they ever put out all everybody started talking about it and I was the last of the party and I was a laggard and I turned it on and this hardcore rock star is just debilitated by his former drug use, Ozzy Osbourne, and he's screaming through the house at his wife, Sharon! Sharon! And that's the only thing I remember about the first reality TV shows and Ozzy, we just heard he just passed away.

Yeah. So God rest his soul. 76. 76 years old. Did you take that and start doing that to Sharon in your house with the accent? No, no. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Never used the intercom system. No, I never, no. I was afraid to because I would afraid of the reaction I would do.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I know her and I don't think that would have lasted very long. That would just not go well. No, it's a different, and you know, the English hillbilly accent together just doesn't work out. It's not bad actually though. But sad to hear Ozzy's passing. Yeah.

He's iconic. Iconic. Absolutely. One of his contemporaries had moved to Nashville a few years ago. We got to know him, Meatloaf. Oh yeah. And Meatloaf was a fun guy. He was a character. And I got to know him, spent a lot of time with him.

Never met Ozzy, but Meatloaf passed away in 2020. And I really miss him. But an incredible dude. It was a lot of fun. So that era of those guys and gals, they're special, especially for an old dude like me. I mean, that's pretty cool. I got, Mama, I'm coming home in my head right now. There you go. There it is. All right. Zach is in Philadelphia. Hey, Zach, what's up?

How you doing, sir? Not bad. How about you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So, first of all, thank you for taking my call, sir. I've listened to you for a while, but unfortunately over the last couple of years, made a few bad financial choices. Oh, you weren't listening. You were just listening. Yeah, I was.

Okay. I got myself out of debt the first time using your guide. Oh, you really did? Okay. I did, yep. I did. I got myself out of debt the first time using your dad's directions. Oh, you really did? Okay. I did, yep. I did. And then I went to the military, had some crazy things happen, including getting in

a big car wreck with someone that wasn't insured. So I kind of racked up some debt there in addition to student loans, things like that. So I'm just looking for your advice on- So how much debt have you got now, hon? Uh, about $250,000. Yo! Yep, a lot. What? How much are that student loans? Uh, about $190,000.

Are you a doctor or a lawyer? I have a master's degree, so my undergraduates in architecture and economics, and I have a master's in real estate development. For what? Oh my God. What are you doing for a living? So like I said, I just got out of the Marine Corps. I was an officer.

I'm looking at going back in, but I am in real estate development now. So I developed real estate on the side. So these degrees were pre-military? Correct, yes sir. Oh wow. So you've been hanging around with this stuff. Well, thank you for your service to the country, hon. How old are you?

I'm 26. Okay. Well, I mean, you already know the formula, man. You've done it before. It's just got a lot more zeros on it this time, right? It's got a lot more zeros, yes sir. Yeah, and so it's income minus outgo. Get the income up and the outgo down and throw everything at the debt.

Are you single? Yep. Yes sir. Okay. What will you make this year in your real estate development world? About $95,000. Okay. And you're single? Yes sir. Okay and so you're

living on I don't know beans and rice, rice and beans and how much are we gonna throw? 60,000 at this? At least sir. So I mean I just got out of the military, I'm back living with my folks. I have pretty much no, I don't pay any rent. I don't really have my work pays for food. So most of that money I can throw towards the debt. I have about $25,000 in liquidity. Good. Let's just throw everything at the debt. Throw everything at the debt. Throw everything at the debt and do everything you can to increase your income without doing something stupid and irrational to get you into a bigger mess of some kind.

Real estate will do that in a heartbeat. But let's just keep rolling with the income and it sounds like it's going to take you three years unless something changes on the income dramatically, doesn't it? Yes, sir. I mean, I'm projected to make probably $150 next year because I just started. But I'm just wondering, the actual APRs on his debt is relatively low. So do I start putting some money in CDs to beat the APR? My personal loans are at 2.9%. They're specific to the military. Honey, we're not trying to make a spread. We're trying to live.

Yes, sir. Good to make a spread. We're trying to live. Good to go sir. You've created a dead gum mess. You can clean up the mess. Quit trying to do math. The only math you need to do is how much I can throw at this debt. There's no trick bag to get you out of this. The trick bag is you go make a pile of money and you throw a pile of money at your big old mess. Yes, sir. That's how you do it. I mean it's really not, there's you know, you need to put your MBA calculator up and just go, go how much money can I make and how much can I not spend and throw, thus throw out everything at this. And there's no tricking out of this. If you start trying

to trick out of this, that's where you're gonna get yourself more broke. Okay. No, let's just say how fast can I do this? How deep can I sacrifice? How singularly focused can I become? And that is the answer to your equation. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I can say is, is you're young enough that you can dig out of this. It's not going to be fun, but I mean, work like there's no tomorrow.

I'd be taking on two and three jobs and Stroke that check tonight what Dave said that you have 25,000 liquid cash tonight I mean follow the baby steps so 23 of that or 24 of that is immediately today You need some momentum today shock your system and get you know start writing out your plan You know how to run spreadsheets run them run your spreadsheet out get on every dollar download the app start out, okay, what's my debt-free date if I make 90 and then I make 150? And what else can I do without getting myself further in debt to get out of this debt? And then the last thing you need to do in this thing, Zach, is you need to analyze what broke in your brain because your brain was working and then it quit working. And what happened?

What caused your brain to break? I had to do the same thing when I went broke and lost everything. Okay, what was wrong with my theory? I had to do an autopsy, bring in CSI and do an autopsy on the patient because the patient was a moron in my case and I want to go, okay, I patient because the patient was a moron in my case and I want to go okay that I don't be a moron anymore so I need to stop doing this what is it what was what did I what did you what things did you believe that were wrong you nailed it in his case he believed that a master's

degree would make him so much more money in the field that he's in and it's not going to you call that out immediately 190 of the 250 is degree related. I know real estate developers all over America, the number of them that have a master's degree in real estate development is precisely zero of the ones that I know. It is not a requirement to do that world. And he swallowed a broken, incorrect cultural message that an MBA is gonna automatically put you in a different tax bracket. And that's just a bunch of garbage. Boys and girls, the secret sauce to your success is in your mirror. It is not on a college campus. It's not in a trade school. It's not your mama's advice. It's in your

mirror. You get off your butt, you leave the cave, you kill something, you drag it home. It's in your mirror. You get off your butt, you leave the cave, you kill something, you drag it home. If you want a sharper axe, then go get a little education. That's fine. But quit looking to education to be your success. Your success is in your mirror. It's your get'em. Get'em! That's where success comes from. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages it's hard to get ahead. That's when Y-Refi can help refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you.

Find out more at Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Colin in Arizona. How do you know when it's time to leave a business that you helped start? I earn $500,000 a year, but the toll on my mental and emotional health is substantial. Considering my persistent feeling of disrespect from the other owners, the income has become irrelevant. The business brings in around $3 million a year.

Despite this, there are no regular meetings, no formal policies, and very little collaboration between owners. Most decisions are made by a gentleman's agreement. When I raise concern, I'm told, don't rock the boat. I want to grow the business, but the other owners have an attitude of working on the business doesn't generate revenue. My only debt is $350,000 on our mortgage, which we could probably pay off if my partners buy out my shares. At what point is walking away the right thing to do?

It feels like, Colin, you've reached that point. Look, this is a situation where I don't see an end to this. This is going to be a consistent frustration, and this does have an impact on you mentally and emotionally when you've got a three-headed cow here at the ownership and this is sticky, it's gross, and if you can get the other owners to buy you out, it feels like the time is right. Pay off the house, sounds like you're entrepreneurial, refocus, and I think this is the right thing. Based on what I know here, this doesn't feel like this is going to get any better.

There's two reasons that you need to be bought out immediately. One is you're miserable and you're done. Two is the misbehavior of the business operations are going to cause the failure of the business and you're going to ride the horse till it dies and it's going to die. The DNA change of death is already in the workings of this business. The things that they are not doing like operating the business well are going to cause the failure of the business. Their lack of character and the way they disrespect and treat another owner is going to be one of the things that that lack of character that is one of the ways it manifests itself in the way they treat you. That doesn't mean

that means to me that you're not the only one that gets treated that way. The team and the talent gets treated that way. The customers and the vendors get treated that way. These guys are buttholes and this is why partnerships are the only ship that won't sail. Is this right here and this will cause the end of the business. So you cannot be under the illusion that this is a perpetual $500,000 a year income. It is not. It's going to fail. I don't know when exactly. It might be five months, it might be five years, but the probability of this being your income from this business if you stuck around miserable

for an extended period of time is precisely zero. That's the second reason that you get out because you don't be under the illusion. You can't compare your decision to, ooh, I walked away from half a million dollars. You didn't because there's not going to be half million dollars. Right now it is. And so as they say in Tennessee, as we say in Tennessee, get out while the getting's good. This be the time, brother. I'm going to run, fruck my hairs on fire.

And next time you get ready to be in a partnership, don't. And this right here is the reason. Heather is with us. Heather is in Orlando. Hi Heather, how are you? Good. Thank you for taking my call, gentlemen. Sure. What's up? I am the only child of a mother who's just diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia. Prior to that I got healthcare surrogate. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. to that, I got healthcare surrogate. Thank you.

Prior to that, I got healthcare surrogate and POA. Someone told me to have our quick claim deed the house. And I did because it was paid off. Why? I know, I didn't, I kind of panicked before the diagnosis came. Well, you have a power of attorney. You don't need to quit claim the house. Oh, I understand.

All right. So anyway, so you've got power of attorney. And how old is your mom, hon? She's 73. What's her name? Judy. Judy. Okay. And your dad's gone? They're divorced. Okay. She was single. Okay. And her house was paid off. I am a widow of a VA, so I have VA benefits. So I am able to transfer over my VA benefit on her taxes now, so I would get the widow and the homestead. Oh, on the property taxes?

Yes, sir, yes, sir. I see. All right. But I'm finding all of these, I'm overwhelmed with all of the Disney stocks and Merrill Lynch and computers, like all these different ones, some were inherited by my grandfather when he passed. So she has some investments that you don't understand? A bunch of them, like from different companies. Who has been managing those?

Does she have a financial planner? She just has Merrill Lynch and these companies that are holding these stocks. She originally started at Disney, so she has Disney and Penn State Oil and just like so many. Okay, but you have documentation on all of it. Yeah, I gathered as much as I can. Merrill Lynch suggested that I do a state attorney to tell me what to do with all these. Do you have any idea what the value of all of that is? I know just alone, the Merrill Lynch with the retirement and those stocks is $500,000.

Okay. All right. Good. Well, and a estate planning attorney would be a good thing, but it's not going to help you with what your problem is. Your problem is you feel overwhelmed and inadequate because you don't understand all of these investments, and that's not bad, it just means you're human. Yes, sir.

Okay, an estate planning attorney doesn't help you with that. Okay. So what you need is someone in your corner with the heart of a teacher. And if the folks at Merrill Lynch are not able to teach you what this stuff is and get you comfortable with it, and it sounds like that their only thing they've thrown at you so far is just getting a lawyer, but that's not the answer to the equation. The answer is you need someone in your corner that teaches you how to manage this well for your mother and I assume you're the sole heir. Yes sir. Okay and so for your mother and really ultimately

you are managing this for you because she probably won't need this money. Yes sir and I need to add on a mother-in-law's suite. Her house is paid off, but I didn't. A home equity loan or a VA loan? No, you don't. If you've got a half a million dollars, you're not going to go borrow money to do this. Yes, sir. You're going to use her money to add on anything that needs to be added on. Okay. Because I was confused by the Mary Lynch lady when she said, oh, if you cash out before she passes, if it's worth ten dollars, you know, the UK taxes on adult, nine of it. And if she wait till

after she passes, then you get 11 of that. That's called a stepped up basis. That's right. She was right about that. But that doesn't matter. We're not cashing the whole thing out. We're just going to cash out enough to do whatever it needs to take care of your mom's physical needs at your home. Yeah, until a little while. I would spend that as a minimal amount, okay? So the best way to become, to do away with being overwhelmed, always is to take a big problem and break it down into little problems.

Yes, sir. Okay? So how many little problems do we have here? Well every one of those accounts is a little problem until I understand it. Getting a bid on and paying cash for the least work we can do to our home to take care of mom. I do not want you spending a hundred thousand dollars adding a wing on your house. Don't do that. Okay. For a 73 year old with a dementia diagnosis. So, now we're going to spend the minimal amount, we're going to take care of mom. We're not

putting her out in the backyard in a dog house or something. We're going to take care of her. But we're also not going to build a Taj Mahal on the end of your house. So, you need to have some basic information on those things. I would recommend that you get someone else in your corner. Go to ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and get one of these SmartVestor Pros that's got the heart of a teacher to sit down with you and begin to unpack this and sit there with someone with a teaching heart until you understand what's going on. It may take you a little bit, that's okay. But that's now your new job. You need to learn how to manage this half million

dollars and you can do it. It's not hard, but you need somebody to help you with it. Music Hey guys, George Campbell here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators. If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th. It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Delaney. It's totally free and when you register, you'll be entered to win our $3,000 giveaway. So just head to

fpu.com slash rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com slash rally. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America Open Phones. A triple 8, 825-5225. Ken Coleman is my co-host, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of a brand new hit on Ramsey Network called

Front Row Seat. Be sure and check that out, particularly this week's version that we just dropped. It's excellent. All right, Lisa is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Lisa, how are you? Okay, thank you for letting me call you. Sure, how can we help? Well, I thought I was doing work that I loved and I thought I was locked in until I got to my full retirement age, but the company that I worked for did away off. And so now I find myself 64 years old and not quite ready to retire, but needing to look at it as a possibility.

And I don't know what my next steps need to be. What did you do? What was your field and title and all that jazz? I was an editor. An editor. And had been doing it. I've been doing that for, well, off and on for many years. What type of editing? I was a specialty auditor. I worked on directories for professional and trade organizations. So it was part technical writing and part journalism, but I've done both of those in my life.

So I enjoyed the work, but it's done now. Not necessarily. So one of the things, first of all, this is the kind of thing that just knocks you kind of off kilter, and there's a lot of emotional stuff with all that. One of the things in the days ahead that you wanna really make sure that you focus on is how much skill you've developed

and how transferable that writing experience is. You've got multiple different types of writing disciplines that you can prove, and the skill of editing, really play that out and go, what does it take? You don't have to answer this on the air for sake of time. But if I were to ask you, tell me the skills involved in being a good editor, and you would answer that. And that's a good exercise to write that out,

because what's important right now is you have to continue to work, correct? Is that what I'm getting? Well, I was planning to, but… Well that's different than do you have to work? I'm not sure yet. All right, give us the rundown on your numbers and we'll come back to the work part. How much is in your nest egg? I have about 80,000 in my nest egg and then I have about

another 16,000 that I have saved in my current or my most recent company's retirement program so I'll roll that into the other savings that I have. And I was, my baby steps are a little bit out of order, but I have about, just about 9,000, a little over 9,000 in consumer debt. I own a home. I have about 70,000 left on my mortgage. And I think a part-time job is completely reasonable, but I'm not in a position to relocate. And I think we're near my bottom. I think you're looking for a full-time job. You don't have a very big nest egg. You've still got $70,000 in debt on your house, and

you don't have a, you know, you're not telling me you got some kind of $20,000 a month pension coming in or something like that, so it sounds to me like you're still working. Probably at least till you're 70. And so yeah, you're looking for another move in your career, so back to Ken then, you know, proximity principle. That's right. And so what, if I were you, I am reaching out to everybody I know

to tell them that you're a free agent. I would try to get as much freelance stuff as I could right away. And this is for momentum sake, right? So you absolutely do need a full-time job, but in the interim, tonight, like when you get off the phone call, we're looking for some freelance writing projects or editing projects. You scour the internet if you don't know how to do it. You get, you know somebody that's in their 20s and they'll

show you and you're looking at everything available and you're focusing on your experience and what you've done. You have an impressive resume. That's the first thing. Let's get as much work as we can right away while we're looking for the full-time job. And for you at this stage, you're going to have to look outside of this lane that you've been in, because it's very unsettling to be at a company for so long,

and then all of a sudden I'm out. And so you're looking at any kind of writing gig that you can get or a job where you're editing, and you've got experience and that's what you're leading with. I'm a good locker room presence, you know. Tell the story, don't be ashamed of being laid off. This happens at large companies. Own that narrative, confidence up. And I'd like to give you my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle. This is going to walk you through in a really plain spoken way. What are my next moves to connect with people so that opportunities knock on my door?

So hang on the line and Kelly will get you the proximity principle. Tony's in Denver. Hey Tony, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. So I'm currently in a, I have my property at 2.75% and I am looking at refinancing at 6.9%. However, I'm doing it as an investment. I'm trying to build a shop in my backyard. I already have a renter lined up for $2,000 a month, but I need $100,000 in order to build it.

Is it smart to adjust my mortgage rate at this point in time? It is not smart to borrow money to build a shop in the backyard. Okay. We don't teach people to borrow money for investing. Okay, now the other thing is, is I do have a rental property, is that I'm currently getting income from.

What would you suggest in order for me to build that 100,000 to invest in building a shop? Why do you need a $100,000 shop? Maybe make it the case for that really quick. He's renting it for $2,000 a month. Yeah, but there's more to it than that, isn't there? Well, I want to build this mechanic shop that's going to have lifts in there and all this

and get the electricity, the plumbing, all that. I'm between 60 to 100,000. Yeah, but what's the end ROI on all that investment? What do you hope to do with that equipment? I hope to utilize it to just rent it as a shop and use it as income. Okay, so you personally aren't gonna use it for your business, you just want to get it to some mechanic. Yeah, I actually have a buddy whose shop, they raise the rates and he's looking at building some and he wanted to sign a contract with me for about five or ten year lease. Okay.

I wanted to get the rest of the story. I don't think this is a good idea at all. This is a bad idea on multiple fronts. Number one, I don't borrow money to do investing. Number two, I don't borrow money to do investing to take care of my buddy's problem. Number three, I don't build a shop on the back of my property that there's only one possible tenant for. If this guy goes sideways, gets in a car wreck, or gets his nose down in some cocaine, you

now have an empty shop with a bunch of crap in it on the back of your property that you can't rent. And guess what? Life happens and it sounds a lot like that stuff. So, no, no, I'll pass on the whole thing. Even if I had 100k cash, I'd pass on this one. Wow, Dave's a dream killer. Wow, Dave's a dream killer. No, Dave's a nightmare killer.

I see nightmares where other people see dreams. Hey guys, George Campbell here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro who will only get you what you need at the best price.

Go to RamseySolutions.com slash insurance, RamseySolutions.com slash insurance. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our Every Dollar trainings. These are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find $9,000 of margin. That's the average and some people get more using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth. Plus you can ask questions live during the live Q&A. Sign up for free at ramsesolutions.com slash webinar. Maria is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi Maria, how are you? Hi Dave, I'm good, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up?

Yes, so a little context. I'm married with two little kids and I work in my dad's company on paper, I'm the CFO, but really I just handle the bookkeeping and admin work. I did inherit a small ownership share from my guardian father when he passed away. The business was doing 12 to 15 million dollars during the COVID boom, but the sales have dropped back to pre-COVID levels, which is about seven to 10 million. And over the last two years, we've lost about $1.5 million and we're carrying a million dollars in debt. I personally taking a 50% pay reduction to help with costs,

but fortunately my husband got a raise and I started my own bookkeeping on business on my side and together that's replaced what I lost. So personally we're doing fine financially. The company feels like it's failing but my dad won't take my advice or make the hard changes. I feel like I should focus on growing my own business because I'm afraid if the company fails I'll lose the other half of my income too. At the same time though I feel guilty stepping back because this was supposed to be his retirement and so many family and

friends work here. And with two little kids, my time is already stretched in. So my question is, do I step back and focus on building something I can control or keep pouring myself into the family business even though it feels like it's a sinking ship? Pre-COVID, it was making $7 million and making a profit? That's correct. Yes. So why making $7 million post-COVID $7 million and making a profit? That's correct, yes. So why making $7 million post-COVID is it not making a profit?

Advertising is one of the biggest expenses that we just seem to not be able to get control of. It's something that seems like it has changed drastically in the past two years. You're talking about paid media online? Yes. Yeah, it's gone through the roof. Yeah. And you guys have not adjusted your media sources and continue to spend like you... So he's spending money even though he knows he's losing money?

That's correct, yes. Why? What does he say? It's worked for so long, he doesn't see why it's not going to work kind of thing. It costs four times as much that's why it doesn't work now. That's correct I 100% agree with you on that. Pretty simple thing there's no ROI or as we say in that world no ROAS. Mm-hmm. So I mean I just had a conversation at Ramsey this week about this. Mm-hmm. I hate the freaking paid media. It's a crack addiction because it works and it costs a lot and then they, what do they do? They come in, they quadruple their costs since COVID and so I'm getting out of the business.

I can't stand it. It pisses me off every time I write one of those checks to those people. So we're moving away from it as fast as we can, finding other sources for our customers. But no, the landscape has changed. So to act like it's always worked so it will always work, that's a ludicrous statement. I mean, if you were buying cars and reselling them and all of a sudden the cost of the car went up 4x You wouldn't say well, it's always worked before that's a dumb butt statement So, how old are you I'm 30 so your dad's 60 He started Yes, he did. What kind of business is it? Outdoor teak furniture. Okay. And your location doesn't have high traffic counts so you are a destination site that's why you're buying your customers? Yes that's correct we're pretty much fully online.

Yeah well the needle has moved. Our cheese got moved. Remember the old book who moved my cheese? Spencer Johnson. Yeah that's the one. And I'll be out scurrying around looking for my dad gum cheese. Yeah. What would, just, I'm gonna ask a hypothetical here. What would dad do if you quit today? How would he handle that? What would he do?

He would not be okay with that. I do handle, I'm the only one in the company who handles pretty much all anything admin. Right. And he's completely stepped away, you know, in COVID time, he was planning for retirement, right? So he kind of stepped away a lot of his duties. Right. Second question. Who's running the business? You? She is.

Not necessarily my uncle, I would say. He's doing all the sales and marketing and we honestly just did a huge layoff. Have you had a really – So let me ask this. No, she hasn't. You've thrown some darts, but you've not dropped a grenade in the middle of this yet. No, but have you had the hard conversation with dad? Not yet. Not yet, no.

Okay, you've got to do that number one. So I think you sit down with your uncle and your dad and say, guys, we're going broke. And I do not intend to ride a horse until it dies. This horse is dying. So you guys have got to change directions here for this business to survive, otherwise none of us are going to have a job and I'm not going to ride the horse until it dies. So we need to come to some agreement about the spending here and the spending that's not working because other companies that are online have adjusted their media spend to

become profitable and they adjusted their media spend down. Ours is down 20 million dollars at Ramsey because of they've been screwing us and that's what same thing they're doing to you okay and I start naming these companies names but some of them are broadcasting this show so that's what it comes down to so that that So that's what you're dealing with, are these platforms. And so you and your dad and your uncle have to sit down and devise a business strategy in today's environment, not yesterday's environment, that is profitable and that we can all agree to. And boys, if you're not gonna do this, you're gonna be doing it on your own.

You don't have to be mean or threatening, but it's just we are losing a million dollars. We can't keep doing that. That's not sustainable. None of us are gonna have a job. I'm not gonna sit here and watch this happen. I love you both, you uncle and dad, and I'd like to stay here and fight with you, but I have to believe in the strategy that we're using to fight this war, and right now we're fighting what's known as a losing battle. Right. And stop it. And so I think you're going to have to have that conversation. And it's not threatening, like throwing a fit, like I'm'm gonna quit if y'all don't behave

It's we have a business problem You all aren't addressing it and no one's gonna continue to work here because no one's gonna have them You're not gonna make a payroll right? We're gonna go broke. I mean you can't make you can't lose a million dollars a year, but for so long agreed Agreed. Yeah, it's been two years Exactly, so yeah wake up and smell the coffee boys million a year, but for so long. Agreed? Agreed, yeah. And it's been two years. Yeah. And they should not look good to you. Exactly. So, wake up and smell the coffee, boys. Something's got to change. And the only thing I would add to what Dave said he's spot on, I would add to them, just

so it doesn't feel like a threat, because there's going to be an emotional reaction to this is what I gather. Just this conversation. I would say, listen, if you guys don't agree with me and you want to move on without me, I got to move on. Here's one thing I'm going to do. I'm going to find my replacement. Because you're going to need somebody to do what you're doing and I think you do need to address that. If you want me to help you find and train the replacement, I'm willing to do that. I'm not mad at you. That's right.

But I'm just reading the tea leaves and y'all aren't even looking at the tea. And I'm the one sitting there looking at the numbers, boys. You can't lose a quarter of a watermelon and get a bigger truck. It doesn't work. Right. It's pretty basic business stuff here. So yeah, I'm sorry, hon. That's pretty standard stuff, but your dad is living in 2018 and 2019 emotionally, and he wishes he could go back there, and this is his wake-up call that he can't. I'm afraid old Dave has to face those things from time to time, too.

It's getting old things, a pain in the butt. This is The Ramsey Show. Music Does having more money and less stress sound nice, but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially I can help you finally get ahead. You can get breaking free from broke today at ramsysolutions.com slash store.

That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Lowry and Stephanie are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey. Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Hayes, North Carolina.

Okay, welcome to Nashville. And what's Hayes near? It's about halfway in between Boone and Winston-Salem. Oh, beautiful area. Okay, very nice. And how much debt have you guys paid off? We've gotten a little over $700,000. I believe it's $710,000.

Whoa, how long did this take? Eight years. Eight years. And your range of income during that time? Went from about $ hundred to a hundred and eighty. Okay cool what do y'all do for a living? I'm a nurse. Nurses. Both of you? Yeah. Okay wow very cool. So I'm guessing with eight years and seven ten maybe you guys paid off the house. Yeah. Whoa! Looking at weird people. Congratulations! So how old are you two?

44. Lauer will be 44 next week. All right. Very fun. And a paid for home. What's the home worth? It's about $250,000. Excellent.

Very cool. So $250,000 of 710? Oh, nursing degrees. Well, we had a lot in there. That's like our, yeah. How much of the 710 was the mortgage? Well, the first mortgage we paid off was about 350. So in this process, we started in a house

that was much too large for us and the mortgage was too big for us to pay. So we paid that or sold that house, paid off lots of other things. We had our two other houses too. My old house, her old house, all that stuff. And the one that was too expensive. And the one that was too expensive. And you sold all three? Yes. Yes. Whoa, so that's a lot of the 710. Correct. Okay, and now you're in a house you can afford. Yes. And is it paid for? Yes.

Oh wow, okay, so it worked out. Yes. Once you decided to not play real estate monopoly. Correct. Okay, all right, I got you, good deal. So tell me the story, what happened eight years ago? How long y'all been married? 14 years.

Okay, so six years into marriage. We got three houses and stuff we can't afford. Life's not fun. What happened? We had decided at the end of 2016 to find a financial piece class. Lowry had heard about you and heard about the class and he said, I want you to find a class and I want to sign up. We were having just so many challenges, paycheck to paycheck, all the classic stuff. She's looking at me like, why haven't you paid this bill yet? Well, we get paid in a couple of days,

I'll pay it then, you know, that kind of thing. So just week to week, the fights, the disagreements, that was getting pretty intense. And it was just a realization that something had to change. Yeah, something had to change. So we started Financial Peace in February of 2017 and it took us about three weeks into the class for us to just look at one another and say, how can the two of us be so educated and so stupid. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha that we could possibly sell. We sold two rental homes, a truck, a camper. We paid off student loans. We paid off probably- Seven credit cards.

Seven credit cards. How much student loan debt was there? About 60,000. No, that wasn't it then. Okay, credit cards. How much credit card debt was there? Probably close to about- 40.

40, yeah. Okay, so it was really just you all were disorganized and you're normal. You had normal debts. Very normal. Very normal. You had normal credit card debt, normal student loan debt, bought a couple rental houses or kept them instead of selling them. Yeah.

Bought a house you couldn't afford. And so you're just asleep at the wheel and you look up and go, okay, we're going to try driving now. And all of a sudden the fights turn into celebrations as everything starts selling. Correct. Yeah. And all of a sudden the fights turn into celebrations as everything starts selling. Correct. Yeah. So we were consumer debt free by the end of 2018. One year. Yeah, almost two years because February 17th when we started, so December of 18, consumer debt was handled. The excess mortgages were gone. We just had our primary house. Did you decide in the initial swath to sell it or was it selling at the second stage?

That was probably about seven months into the process where we were like, hmm. This is also a problem. Yeah, when we're looking at the numbers and we realized, you know, we were well over 25% and we were failing it still. And it was just, time-wise, it just made no sense whatsoever. My dad used to say, recognizing there is a problem is 90% of solving it. And so that day when you came home and looked at her and said, I'm going to find a financial peace class, I'm done, I'm over this, I've had it.

And she's like, finally. And then we go to class and you instantaneously got aligned, didn't you? Yes. That's pretty amazing. I was confused on the way to class. We only have like maybe a 10 minute drive to class and the first time that we drove,

on the way he was like, I think they're going to tell us that we need to cut our credit cards up. And I said, why on earth would they tell us that? Why would we do that? And then we got a couple of classes in and I was like, oh, oh, I understand this now. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, you guys got aligned

within three or four weeks, five weeks of each other. Oh, very, yes. And for the first time really in six or seven years. Absolutely. And then once you got aligned, it was like boom, execute, execute, execute, execute. I mean, because you guys are used to coming up with a treatment plan as nurses,

and then follow the treatment plan, the patient gets well most of the time, hello. And so you just, you use your same training, but just use the way your brains work, but in a different setting, in a different compartment and department. Yeah, I have a follow-up to what Dave just pointed out and asked.

So once you got on the same page about what you needed to do, the baby steps, did the tension, even though you were still in the debt, did the tension that was causing the fights, did that subside? Absolutely. See, that's a key point I want couples to hear. Tell us why you think that happens.

I think that the tension that we had between one another, we focused on the problem. We put intention on the problem and started focusing on that instead of what he and I were doing wrong. And two, we developed a plan together. We were able to actually work together towards that specific goal.

And that expanded to everything else. So the takeaway. From how we raise the kids to whatever. Okay, I just wanna make sure, I just got this thought. You took it to intention and that relieved all of the tension because it was just, now we have a way out. You didn't have a way out before.

That's great, I just hope couples hear that. That's why this plan works so well. And it's why so many times over the years, people in the past would come up and they go, you saved our marriage. I'm like, you went to the wrong class. The sixth class was down the hall. I mean, they're like, no, this is,

we've been going to marriage counselors and couldn't figure out how to be together. And all of a sudden, when you have a common goal and the enemy is outside the house, the villain is no longer inside the house, it changes everything. And once you learn to fight together, like you said, towards a goal,

then that applies to everything else, like raising kids, it applies to every other department, compartment in your life. So way to go, y'all, I'm so proud of you. Thanks. Who was cheering you on? Well, in the beginning, I'll just say,

there was a lot of people that thought we were crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we mostly had help from people who took FPU with us and the coordinators at that class. What church was that? Triad Baptist in Kernersville, North Carolina. Okay, thanks guys for teaching that class.

Within the last three years, we have been able to host financial peace at our church. Oh wow. And we've amassed a good close group of friends who have been very supportive. Very good, what church is that? Fair Plains Baptist in North Wilkesboro, North Carolina. Wonderful, all right, bring the kiddos up to do the debt free stream. Tell us their ages and names. What church is that? Fair Plains Baptist in North Wilkesboro, in North Carolina. Wonderful.

All right, bring the kiddos up to do the debt free scream. Tell us their ages and names. Okay, this is Lawson and he's 13. And this is Selma and she's 11. And they survived this. Selma has never known life without Dave. We used to drive around in the car together and listen to your show in debt free scream.

Is this gonna be a day free scream here? Selma, I'm so sorry. Oh boy. All right, Lowry Stephanie Lawson in Selma, North Carolina. 710,000 paid off. What a wonderful story. Eight years making 100 to 180, sold everything in sight, got their lives back.

Count it down. Let's hear a Debt Free Scream. All right, three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! What a cool couple.

That's fun. What about you? Yeah, I'm talking to you. What about you? Our scripture today is 1 Peter 4 10. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Henry Ford said, a business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Oh, I agree.

Folks, if anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance, and we only recommend term life insurance. Life insurance has one job, replace your income if you die. We never recommend any kind of investment insurance like whole life or permanent life. It tries to do two jobs at once and it does a bad job at both. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your

annual income for 15 to 20 year level term insurance. For more info and resources use our term life insurance guide. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash term life guide or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast or just go to zanderinsurance.com. Amelia is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Amelia, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question on budgeting priority whenever you are in a long-term rainy day period. A little bit of background, we purchased a house, we saved quite a bit of money up. We saved a total of $65,000 before we purchased our house back in February of last year. And we purchased the house and unfortunately we purchased it and the previous owner had completed renovations that did not meet code and caused immediate concerns to

the house that we have now subsequently been fixing and are also being held to bring the house up to code because of the stuff that they did, unfortunately. Did you have a home inspection? We did and unfortunately, so we have gone through, we are in a lawsuit right now. Yeah, I would bet. The whole inspection. And with the former owner. The former owner, fun fact, the former owner was also the real estate agent, and they're

a flipping company, and they are very, I mean, they're terrible people who are acting as general contractors and as a business, and they're continuing to do it. They have 14 other houses in the neighborhood. Okay, so how much money is this costing you out of pocket to fix this house up? So far, we have spent $86,856, and we have to go to complete everything. I've got estimates, and we're fully working our way. Total amount at the very end will be a hundred and fifty four thousand nine hundred What's this house worth?

375 is what we purchased it for we negotiated. It's saying right now that it's worth 410 As is As is we can't sell it right now with its open permit, but if I were to sell it today Backing's gonna gutted. So if I would have felt today, we were't sell it right now with its open permit, but if I were to sell it today, the bathroom's getting gutted. So if I were to sell it today, we'd probably get maybe $3.80. Yeah. What's wrong with just selling it today? You can sell it with an open permit, by the way.

It's just a cash sale. You can't get a permit mortgage on it. But an investor could buy it. If you could get somebody to give you what you got in it, get out. Get away from this thing. And then we would lose the, well that's true, so we would just lose the money that we put in for the down payment and what we're currently at and what we've currently invested to try to bring in. No, you said you paid 380 and you're 375 and you get 380. Yes. So the down payment would be coming back to you.

The down payment would be coming back to you. You don't lose that. But you would lose any additional money you put into it since you bought it. Which so far is 80 grand? 86. Yes. And then you got to put another 150 in it, so you're going to be upside down in this thing. No. I'm sorry, another $72. So $72 is a good amount. Oh, a total of $150.

So it's a total of correct. All right. So let me see, $380. So $375. So you're going to have $525,000 in a house when you're done that's worth what? When you're done? $475,000. Probably when we're done with everything because we're upgrading.

Since we have to have got some stuff, we're upgrading a little bit to add some more value. Like for example, we're adding a bathroom. So if we were to sell it with all the upgrades done, we could probably get around $450,000. Yeah, so you're going to lose your bet. So you're going to be $75,000 in the hole when you're done with this plan. Why is this a good plan? The only reason we're kind of sticking with it was our lawyer with the lawsuit that we're going and we're suing them.

I think unfortunately we're going to rely on them. Yeah, but the question is are you going to get anything? Even if you win the lawsuit, they're broke, probably. I hope not. Oh, they are. They're broke. Yeah. The good thing is we do have a guilty verdict already has been determined by the State Fire Marshal for the home inspector. So they have been found guilty for missing all of the Okay, so are they writing a check? We're not sure yet.

The lawsuit is an umbrella. They're suing both the previous owner, the real estate company, and the home inspector. So the lawyer is saying, we need $150,000 or $154,000. I don't care who pays what, but that's what we need, and then let the three people that we're suing figure out how to pay it. So the home inspector had state farm insurance? Yeah.

Maybe? I think so, yes. That's weird. Okay. All right. And they've already agreed to settle at least part of it? They have not agreed to what amount, but they have agreed that they have admitted a, yes, there's an admission of guilt.

Okay, so they're going to write a check of some kind. Exactly. All right, so you're going to get some of this. So you're probably going to break even when all this is done, is what you're saying. That's what we're trying and we're pushing for, yes. And how long has this saga been going on? Since February of last year. Yeah, probably another year and a half.

In the meantime, we've been for debt-wise, I think that I'm trying to figure out budgeting. I think you're in the middle of a hurricane. I don't think you're getting out of debt while you're in the middle of a hurricane. Thankfully, there's not much. Yeah, I think you've got one problem right now, and it's a big enough one that you're taking on everything. I think your baby steps and all that stuff's on hold until you get these lawsuits settled and get some checks in, get the stinking renovation done, and then you get on with your life. And then, yeah. Did the new information she gave you change your mind on putting it up for sale and see

if they can get a cash buyer on it? Yeah, I think they're probably going to wait and get the settlement out of it because it sounds like they're going to probably get their $150. It sounds like this lawyer is probably doing a pretty decent job. But I really, honestly, if State Farm is writing a check for the building inspector, you're probably going to get that money. The money you're hoping to get from the fl inspector, you're probably going to get that money. The money you're hoping to get from the flipper, you're probably getting nothing because that

flipper's probably broke. Most flippers are broke. And so I just, I'll bet you they got no cash and I'll bet you're going to get nothing out of them. Which is probably why they sold it the way in the 80s. Because they cheaped out on all the repairs and then they flipped it instead of doing them properly. And so it's an unscrupulous flipper. the repairs and then they flipped it instead of doing them properly.

And so it's an unscrupulous flipper. And so that's what she's describing anyway. I think she's, you may get most of your 150 and at least enough of it that you're not going to be upside down in the house by the time the smoke clears on this, so to speak. Wow. I'm trying to think how to avoid this for somebody else listening. Well, if the judgment against the flipper holds,

if it goes through, even if they have no cash, would a judge award them an asset? Put liens on their other stuff. But that still doesn't mean you're gonna get anything. Exactly, okay. That's what I was trying to figure out. Broke people can't pay. You can sue them and it doesn't make them have money.

They're still broke people. Right. And so that's this misnomer that if I sue somebody, I'm gonna get money. Not necessarily. They may be broke. I mean, I've got judgment liens against people. I'll never see the money.

They didn't pay their bill and they're never gonna pay their bill and they don't have any money. It's not, it's no sense sitting up at night going, oh, but I have a lawsuit. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter at all. The only people that really make money on lawsuits are lawyers. They're the only ones.

So, gosh, what a pain in the butt. I'm so sorry, Amelia. Sorry you're going through that. But I guess the way you avoid this in the future, folks, is you have a little more confidence in the real estate agents you're working with and with the quality of the home inspector. Obviously, this home inspector was inept. I was thinking through that. I'd become friends with a general contractor.

Yeah. Because that's somebody you theoretically trust and say, hey, would you walk through it? Yeah. Yeah. Pay them. By the time she's finished with this, she'll be a general contractor. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. What if you could watch the Ramsey show before anyone else? Well good news, now you can. For the first time ever, you can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey network and Google Play

or the App Store or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.