The Ramsey Show - Your Bank Account Shouldn’t Define You

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my pal and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls at AAA 825-5-225. Naya is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Naya, did I get that right? Is it Naya? Naya.

Yes. First try. All right, we're off to a great start. Naya, how can we help today? Hi. So I was just wondering kind of what me and my husband should shut up our budget on, just to give you a quick back story. Me and my husband, we eloped.

We got married early because we wanted to just have a good foundation going forward into our wedding as far as finances. I work in real estate, so the insurance rates got super high for me. And I was like, well, let's elope. get on a normal insurance and then put the rest of our money so that we could cash flow our wedding versus pulling from either of our savings. And we've mostly been able to do that except for the final cost of the food based off of the head count. But I just started reading the total money makeover book. Our original goal was to buy a house probably within the next year, a year after the wedding, the weddings this coming May.

but after starting your book, I realize that we may not have enough to start it based off of the three to six months in savings. Currently, we have about 30,000 in savings. Most of it is in a high-yield savings account, and we don't touch it whatsoever, again, except for pulling for the final count for the food. And I thought that was a good amount moving forward to, you know, get a house. but our three to six months work, our six months worth of savings is about $24,000. So I would like, oh, maybe we don't have as much as I thought. And so I wanted to know your guys' wisdom on, okay, how much do we need to start saving for our house? We're both completely death-free.

We paid our ways through college. We don't have car loans or anything like that. And currently we rent. Awesome. Well, you guys are doing great. I want to encourage you. Everything you've laid out, I'm like, they are crushing it. And I'm glad the book just kind of gave you a little pause to go, hey, we're going to be broke if we just jump into a house with close to nothing down or nothing in savings.

So you're right that we got to get through this wedding first. Then we'll see what's left money-wise. Make sure we get the emergency fund. Then anything beyond that becomes our down payment savings plan. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. How much will the food cost for the wedding?

Right now we're looking at about $3,500. It could go up depending on the final RSVP. but we're assuming we're going to put out 3,500, and everyone keeps telling us that last-minute expenses are going to come up. So in our mind, we're just, even though 3,500 is the amount that we think we're going to spend, we're thinking of 5,000. Sure. Yep, I think that's a great plan.

So out of that, you'll have 25 left, and you said 24,000 is a six-month emergency fund for you guys? Correct. Okay. Yeah, and what you could do just to kind of press play on this and, like, keep moving forward, Because you guys, well, you're in housing. I'm trying to think of your careers, how stable they are. Would you say you guys are in a pretty good spot? We're in a pretty good spot.

I work in real estate, and then he is an engineer. I mean, he has a very stable job. Okay. So what you could do, honestly, because if we say three to six months of expenses, and the six-month side, I always like more, I'm more comfortable with that. If there's, you know, two people working or one person working, multiple kids. There's a lot going on. That six-month cushion usually feels good. But you guys, you know, you don't have kids, the responsibility there, you're wanting to buy a house. So if you

wanted to go to the three-month, the $12,000 versus 24, six-month, I would be okay with that. So you could say, hey, we have $12,000 earmarked after the wedding for our emergency fund. That's a check. That's Baby Step 3. And the Baby Step 3B is that down payment. And you guys will have $12,000 to kind of jumpstart you guys into a house to get you there faster if you wanted to. More conservative people would lean to the six month, but because of your situation, I'd be okay if it's closer to three months of an emergency fund. Okay. Okay.

And is there any, again, I just started listening to you guys in reading the book. I didn't know if you guys had any more suggestions. We always just know the lid below our means, but all of the things that I'm learning in the total money makeover is more than what I've ever known. So I didn't know if you guys had any tips. Well, as far as home buying? No, in general. Life tips. I mean, there's a lot.

That book will cover a lot. You're right. Living on Lustin you make will get you very far on life. You can actually build a whole lot of wealth just doing that. But there's a lot of minutia when it comes to the offense and defense with getting the right types of insurance and not having too much insurance. And you also need to look at investing. And we need to be investing 15% of our income.

And there's match beats Rothbeats traditional. And so all of that gets laid out in the total money makeover to help you live out those principles. Yeah, but where you guys are, I would say now that, you know, working together as a couple is going to be big because money fights and money problems. It's one of the leading causes of divorce in America. I mean, it's just it tears apart couples if you are not on the same page with money. It's a really hard marriage when you're both on completely separate pages. You just continue to have conflicts and butt heads. So I would say that's a big goal for you and your new husband to say, hey, we're going to work together.

We're going to be a team. Our income when we get paid comes into the household, into a checking account, and we see that as the household income, right? Not just mine and yours. This is our money. The more you guys can work as a team and start functioning, the relational side of money, that's a big thing you guys can be working on and talking about. And out of that, you're going to have goals together, right? This house, this is a great goal for you all to say, hey, let's look at the numbers, look how much we need for a down.

payment of at least 5% on a 15-year fixed rate, how much cash above that 12,000 do we need to save? And so you guys will find a kind of a number, a range for that. And then as you do a monthly budget, which you guys need to do together, if you hold on the line, we'll pick up and give you guys every dollar for free for a year. A little wedding gift. A little wedding gift. Oh, wow. Nice. Yes. So that you guys can start budgeting together, because that's another part of all of this, is actually being intentional with your income, not just living below our means and just kind of doing but you're actually doing it with intentionality, right? That you actually know where your money's going.

So there's bits and pieces to all of it. Again, I think that book is a perfect guide to all of this. And you'll reference it back. So just focus on the one thing you need to know at this time. And then you can circle back on the investing side and saving for college one day. So don't feel like you need to learn at all right now. Your singular goal now is get through the wedding debt free. And then whatever's left over, that becomes our emergency fund plus home down payment.

And I would earmark it in a separate high-yield savings account. so that it doesn't get commingled with the emergency fund. That just helps me not feel guilty when I go to use that money for the home down payment. And then just figure out, hey, how much can we realistically set aside each month? Have you guys done that yet to go with our future incomes? We can set aside three grand a month. We're setting aside. Right now with the wedding, we're only setting aside about $800 a month

because we're wanting to pay for most of it through cash flow. But realistically, after the wedding, we have decided we'll set around $2,000 to $2,500 a side. each month. Great. Okay, so that's about 25 grand a year. So in one year, you'll have 25 grand for the down payment. In two years, it becomes 50 grand. Well, plus the 12. Plus your 12. Rachel's very generous with that. I know. I wanted you to. And what really will happen is you guys will be making more money as a married couple who is very intentional, and all of a sudden you'll be saving 3,000, maybe even 4,000. And all of a sudden, this will speed up the process and you might have 50 to 100 grand saved up in no time. So don't

rush it. Do it when you're financially ready. Nobody's yelling at you if you get a house at 28 versus 24. Yeah, renting is not bad for now. And you guys are doing awesome, just like George said. You are on the right track without even knowing it. I mean, yeah, you're in the right direction. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow.

She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off dads, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 80035. 6.42.82. Beth is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Beth? How can we help today? You with us? Oh, yes, I'm here. I'm sorry.

Okay. Crisis averted. How can we help? Hi. So my question was regarding a pre-nup. My boyfriend and I have been dating for about a year, so we're speaking about marriage, and he had mentioned that he would never get married without a pre-up. And I've always been against the idea of a pre-up. I do understand the logic behind them. And he's worth a lot more than I am financially. He has a lot more in assets and all of that.

So I just feel like if a man says that he won't get married without a pre-up, it makes me feel like it's an unsafe marriage for me to enter into because he's planning for divorce, basically, or preparing. for it, if that makes sense. Have you shared that with him? Those exact words? Yes. How did he respond? Well, he said that he feels like I'm being ungrateful because he would be willing to, you know,

take on me in my two children, and I shouldn't question. So this is an act of charity for him, and you should ask for no more. He's already doing the most by letting you into his life. that's I mean that's kind of the that's how it makes you feel does that feel on brand for him like was that a shocking answer you're like wow that's not what I was expecting you to say or was it like yeah it's kind of like his like emmo well I was I was pretty surprised when you said that and it was a little upsetting and I don't I mean I understand that money is important obviously but there are things that I've out of value more than money. And there's no amount of money that would be worth a divorce to me or like dragging my children through a failed marriage and all of that. Sure. Is this second marriage for both of you or one of you? It's the second marriage for me. I was married young, but we were married for about six years.

And when I was getting ready to have our first, our child, he decided. that he didn't want to be married anymore. So I've been a single mom for the last 11 years, and this is his first marriage. He's never been married. He has no children, so he's only, he's been alone his whole life. Okay. And you have one child, you said? I actually have two, so I had a second child.

She just turned three. Okay, okay. Not with him, though, correct? Right. With this boyfriend. Okay. So how much more is he worth than you, would you say? 10 plus a million, a million, half a million, less than half a million?

I don't know exactly. The number that he gave me was 2 million, like between retirement and assets, savings, all of that. Okay. And what is he wanting to protect going into this marriage, exactly? Anything that he has right now. So all of his assets and retirement and all of that, he says it wouldn't. be fair. If we were to get divorced, it wouldn't be fair for me to get half of everything he's worked for. And I understand the logic. And I'm not saying I want half of everything. I'm saying I don't want to

go into this marriage, like, talking about divorce because I'm 36 years old. And if I'm going to be getting divorced in five years, I'd rather not get married. Right, right. No, no, I hear you. I think you guys are just missing each other communication-wise. And he has his reasons and you have your reasons. And neither of you are getting to the root of it and understanding each other. Well, and my problem, Beth, is, you know, I don't think he's necessarily in the wrong, because I will be honest, our teaching around pre-ups, it kind of varies a little bit. Like, we don't really have a hardcore teaching. I think we are more hardcore, no pre-nup for a long time. And as the years have gone on and different situations, different, you know, divorce law in certain states, like, you know, there's an understanding if there is

a significant difference in net worth that if you choose to protect it with a pre-up, like, you know, it's not necessarily wrong, right, in his sake. So I'm not going to say that he is wrong, but where I do think he's wrong and what I get the ick about is the way he's responding to you in it. And it makes you feel like he's valuing his money over you. And that's how it feels. And so that's the problem that I have, right? His response to you at the beginning of this call, what you said. I was like, oh my gosh, that's why I asked like, is this like his, is this how he is, because he kind of sounds like a little bit of a jerk, right, versus someone that's going to take care of you where you're like, I don't like the way this is making me feel. You know, Beth,

and you could, you could own it all and say, this may be more my issue than yours. And I wish he came with some empathy on the table and say, I completely understand how that, how this is, how this does kind of feel off because I could only imagine being a single parent, raising two kids, and then I'm putting this paperwork in front of you that feels so like litigious and it's just, oh, it's not a good feeling, but here's where I'm at. Right. Like, if he like met you in the conversation with it and valued you in it, I think you may be feeling better, but it's like he keeps doubling down and the ickiness of what pre-nups do to people, the grossness, he doubled down on that. Do you know what I mean? Like, he didn't help the pre-nup, like the pre-nup, you know, fight in

that. It doesn't make sense. You didn't set it up well. And what happened here is the pre-nup is a tool. It's not evil. It's just a tool, and he's using it as a weapon to say, well, you should be on, you're ungrateful. Yeah, that part gave me the ick for sure. But I think there is a compromise here where you can, instead of you getting defensive, just say, hey, I'm open to hearing more about what you're thinking when it comes to this pre-up. Can you share some details about how this would be set up? I would love for this to be fair to both of us. And, yeah, sorry, George, go ahead.

That's it. I mean, that's it. That alone, he's like, oh, I can be disarmed now and not have to bow up. Sure, yes. And if you knew going forward how you guys are going to work together in your marriage with money, like that may be helpful too. And that's where sometimes preempts can get a little bit convoluted. If you start commingling finances, which is what we talk about, that you need to be working together and you are one, while his retirement, all that will still be in his name. But we see it from an emotional standpoint as this is our household finances together. Once we get married, we say we are one in every aspect. And I would want to hear that from him to know that like what, like when we say I do and we do this life together, I want to know not only is it going to, is our expectation, is it is forever, right?

That's what we're going in saying. But also that we're going to be one in the subject of money. And he's already started the conversation off as already it's split, right? Like we're going to be two is how it feels. So I just want to make sure in the marriage you guys are working together and that you are being taken care of and that he's been. being taken care of. Like, you know, you both have that give and take in the marriage when it comes to money. And I don't want it to be one-sided. And sometimes, not always, people with that

pre-up mentality sometimes continue it on in the marriage to continue to isolate the other spouse to say, well, this is my money, this is your money. I'm working hard, right? If you looked down two years and if you want to be a stay-at-home mom and he makes, you know, enough for you to do that, but yet he keeps saying it's my money over here. That is, that's not a marriage. And you have to ask for an allowance. I mean, that's where it gets toxic. So I would get a full picture of what money is going to look like in this marriage. And if the pre-up makes sense as a part of that, great. But if you guys are unaligned in every other area with money, that is a huge red flag that we should not move forward. Yeah, that makes sense. So get clear with them tonight, sit down and say,

hey, I want to know more about this. Would I be a beneficiary as long as we're married on your retirement accounts and on the real estate? And any future wealth, any appreciation of the house, and of your retirement accounts, any wealth that we create together from here on out, would I be entitled to half of that? Those are things where you start to understand and get in the minutia of it. You might go, oh, okay, that makes sense.

It just sounded harsh on the front end. Right. Yeah, and he didn't help his case, though, the way he treated yours. That sounds too. So, yeah. Yeah. So I think you go in with some caution,

but a lot of clarity, Beth. And I would not sign anything until you feel comfortable, though. So I don't want you to feel. intimidated. Never feel pressured until like, well, it's better happen now, ultimatum. Yep. That's another red flag. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like if he would break up with me over a pre-nup, then that is him choosing his money. You dodged a bullet there if that happens. I would agree with that too.

You should be thankful. You should write on a thank you note if that happens to spare you. Oh my goodness. Well, we're rooting for you, Beth. I hope you guys can come to a consensus that is fair and equitable for all without the ick. That's the goal here. Most people don't struggle with money because they can't do math. They struggle because they don't stick to a plan. And when your bank makes your money feel confusing or hard to track, plans fall apart fast. And that's why I love Fairwin's Credit Union and their mobile app. Because let's face it, most banks build systems that make it easy to swipe and hard to stay organized. But with the Fairwind's app, you open it and you know exactly what to do. No clicking through 11 menus just to move your own money. Just tap, transfer, and done. You can deposit a check from your couch by taking a pay. picture. You can get real-time alerts so you're not guessing what's in your account. And you can add your Ramsey Be Weird debit card to Apple Pay and tap to check out. See, a lot of banks leverage convenience to make it easier to go into debt, but Fairwinds offers convenience to help you stay in control. It's a huge difference. That's banking that actually supports the baby steps instead of working

against them. So if you want to bank someplace that's both faster and wiser, check out Fairwins. Go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA. If you have a simple tax situation, you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, check out Ramsey Smart Tax. It's affordable. It keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you need a little help. And filing early, which, I mean, there's no real early anymore. It's upon us. But you'll get the best deal and you get that tax dress off your shoulders. So as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash smart tax and file today. You're not too late, but soon you will be. Get it done.

All right. Dan is in Kansas City up next. What's going on, Dan? Hey. How can I help? I just said, so I have some money that a couple years ago I put in with a family member who had some investment stuff that he was doing. And it's not a huge part of like my savings or anything, but it's just a little bit. And I guess it wasn't really worked out in the initial agreement, like what his cut of the money was going to be as he managed the investments. And so we're working on that now.

and what was mentioned to me was like a 2 and 20 structure with like a 10% hurdle. So like we get the first 10% and then anything above that, he would get 20%. But then somebody else mentioned the 25%. And to me, that's 25% number. Is he a financial advisor or is this some back alley deal? It's just a family member who talked to some finance people and worked out some investment thing. And he's been doing that and making pretty good money. This is sketchy all around.

What kind of investment is it? Is it in the market? Like index funds or mutual funds? Yes. It's in, yeah, it's well, it's based on the S&P 500 for the most part. So this is highway robbery. The standard in the industry is around a 1% AUM fee. That's assets under management.

Sometimes it's one and a quarter, maybe upwards of two in a crazy scenario. And he wants 10%. But it's just anything above 10%. But like anything above the 10% if we make over 10% profit on the He gets 25% of anything over that. As you should, though. Does he work for an actual, like, registered investment advisor, like an actual firm? No.

You keep saying, like, well, he's got some guys. Like, he's, like, a middleman, and he's... I would get your money away from this guy ASAP. Who's this family man? Is it an actual, like, a cousin, a brother? Yeah, an uncle. A brother-in-law. If he's not, like, running it through anybody else, he's handled it all himself, but it's just something that he...

Okay, so he's a DIY investor, and he's just offering his service. to you for a steep fee? I mean, we haven't really agreed on the fee yet. What happens if he loses all your money? I lose that money, but it's not a huge part of my... How much are we talking? How much have you given him so far? It's only 10 grand.

Okay, so what I would probably do, Dan, when did you give him this money to invest? About two and a half years ago. Okay. How old is he? 40. And does he do this regularly? Like, is this like a side?

He'd been working on it with his own money for a while before he, like, opened it up to anybody else. And again, is it works for him? Is he using, like, a fidelity or a vanguard? Like, does he have a brokerage? Yeah, it's through a broker. I think it's a e-trade, maybe. Okay, so it's basically it's something you could be doing because he's not really moving money around, does he? He just picked an investment and put it in.

But you'd be better off just doing this. with an actual professional who's licensed. Right, okay. So how much money did you originally put in two and a half years ago? I put $10 grand in two and a half years ago. It's up to like $15,000 now. Okay. I was going to say, I was like, if it's still on $10,000,

this guy needs to go to prison. I mean, the market has done really well the last few years. Yeah, so number one, I would untangle this whole deal. It's just, you know, the whole money, family, minutia, It's not, it just never really ends up good. So I would just say, hey, bro, I just want our relationship to be clear of any level of entanglement when it comes to money. I just, I'm sorry not to feel great about it. You've done nothing wrong.

I freely chose to do this. But I've been, you know, reading some books, doing some stuff. And I just think, are you married? Yes. Yeah. You know, me and, you know, my wife, we've been looking at our entire financial picture. And so we're going to kind of consolidate some stuff. things around. So I probably will just cash out with you and move on. That's what I would do

and not even worry about it. But if you feel like you can't do that and all of it, then I would charge him what the average market rate is if you had an investment professional look at that, which is 1%. Or just say, hey, I've got it. I've got, my wife and I, we decided we're going to work with an actual financial advisor at XYZ firm, and we're going to move our money over there. Yep. And if he gets real upset, that's a good clue that this was a bad idea to begin with. Okay. but I'm glad you are at least up right now. He hasn't embezzled the money.

Is crazy. Usually this call ends with and all the money's gone and I can't get in touch with them. Now that would be weird. But that would not be crazy, Dan, if you went and told him that. It sounds like he likes this stuff and he does DIY and he came up with some deal that was like, all right, I'll make a little bit of money to manage us for you. I don't even know if this is legal. This sounds crazy.

I think it's kind of set up like an investment club type thing. So it's mostly fine. Like I have input into it, but yeah. Well, why don't you just do it, Dan? Well, I don't know exactly what it is. Like, I don't know how to do whatever it is doing. He's not just putting it in a stock and leaving it. He's doing like some covered call type stuff, I think.

Oh, boy. Okay. There's some more risk here. I personally, I would jump on a ramsysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro, and you'll sleep better at night knowing that all this money can disappear. Because here's the thing, you could lose it all, and you have no stake in the game. You can't come after him.

And the fact you can't explain what he's doing, never put your money in something you don't understand. So you've got to figure out what he's doing. So just for your own sake, Dan, don't give someone 10 grand and be like, I don't really understand what he's doing, but he kind of knows what he's doing. You don't know what he's doing.

Did he make any promises? Was he like, hey, man, I'll double the money? No, no, nothing like that. I mean, he gave up, like, yeah, he just said it was doing pretty well for him, and he'd been making, I don't remember what the percentage enjoy that he said at the time, but it was a decent amount. And I was like, okay, like, I'm going to put all my money there, but I have some I can put there. Sure. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least you're not

too late. Hopefully we talked you off the ledge to get out of this weird situation. And it's always a family member. That's the part that I'm glad at least it wasn't a whole life insurance thing where he's like, he said he's managing my money. And it's really just a life insurance salesperson who works at Northwestern who sucked you into this deal. Totally. Yep. Yeah, it could be totally fine, Dan. We may be being dramatic. But from the relational aspect, I would not, yeah, I just wouldn't commingle money and family. I'd rather be a stranger I can yell at. You just put it in an index fund and you'll probably be getting, I would think, the same returns

is what he's doing, honestly. It's not better. All right, Jack is in Lexington up next. What's going on, Jack? You there? Jack? We were so close to talking to Jack. All right. All right. It was a good effort. Let's go to Joe and Raleigh instead. What's going on, Joe? Hey, guys, how are you doing? Good. How can we help? I have a quick, well, kind of quick question. First of all, thanks for taking the call. I just graduated school.

I'm from Indiana. I moved down to North Carolina. I have about 65,000 in student debt. I got my master's, my MBA. And then I have about $7,000 in a car. My work actually kind of, we have a car allowance that I kind of get paid for. But I'm getting married in two months.

And my fiancé, we're very blessed. She has had money put aside for her. It's about $120,000, and it's going to be our money. We're going to combine our finances. We've talked about what to best do with that money as soon as we get married and combine our finances. Part of me thinks, yes, we should just use that money and wipe out all the debt that would now be ours once we're married. But also being a good man, I am. I feel like I don't want to just take her money and do that, but it will become our money, if that makes sense.

And, yeah, we could use it on, I could use some of it and then pay the rest off on my own. But I feel like you guys would probably just say just use it. But it's been set aside for her for a while. Her dad and grandparents blessed her with that. So, yeah, curious to hear what you guys think. Absolutely. Use it and set yourself up. I mean, this money was created for, you know, for her to get a leg up in her financial future.

And now she's got you. It's a wealth multiplier. So, yes, it feels like you're taking a step back temporarily and it stinks because you're like, man, This was, half her money's gone now that was set aside for her, but you're just setting yourselves up. This is a great foundation to go off of. So absolutely I would do it. And you would do the same if she was in your shoes. And so it is your money, y'all's money, our money. And you're not using all of it. I mean, you're using a good bit of it. I was like $50,000 left. I was going to say, yeah, $48,000 left, which could be the, you know, the starter, or the fully funded emergency funds, right? Part of that could be there. And then some of it for a down payment for a home and you guys keep moving along. So the goal is to get to wealth,

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Open phones at AAA 8255-2-225. Spencer is in Hollywood, Florida up next. Spencer, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello, thanks for having me. Sure. How can Rachel and I help? I was just calling because me and my fiancé, age 25, but me and my fiance are looking to get married. in August, but I have it like a dilemma with her and her mom. Her mom wants to stay with us, but her and mom doesn't have a good, like, relationship, really, that's happening.

And we're kind of like in between of what we should do. Like, she doesn't want to abandon her mom and, like, leave her because she's a single mom with two other little sisters, and we're just having that, I guess he could say, that guilt of that bring her along with her. us. Okay, so the mother-in-law is asking to move in with you all once you get married? Yes, that's correct. Okay. And she has two other daughters? Yes, and the thing is, she has her aunt that lives in Jacksonville. She's in the Navy,

but that's not really like, I guess you can say, there she's a area she wants to live at. Okay, why does she need her oldest daughter? Is it financial? Is it financial? Is it, that she helps take care of the two little ones? Like, what is her primary motivation to live with you all? I think it's the combination of all the things you said, plus more, I guess, for, like, I guess you could say more comfortability. And she really takes on, like, all the responsibilities when I'm thinking about it. Your wife does?

Yes, correct. Yeah. As for her mom and everything. I guess that's like, I guess, if she leaves. That's like, I guess, you know, a gap that she has to feel as a single mom. And then what's the relational side? You said there's a bad relationship? Who's it between?

Well, when I say, like, bad relationship, it's like, I guess, like, you could say, like, hot and cold. Like, it'd be, like, I guess you could say one day, like, they're getting along, and the next day, I guess. You're bringing some drama into the house by inviting her in is what you're saying. Yeah, and I guess, like, with my standpoint, I'm, like, in the middle of it. So I don't want to play like a both sides and, you know, and I respect both of them. And I feel like I kind of gave her ideas like saying like, you know, you can love your mom for a distance and maybe like going to Jacksonville. It's not a bad idea. By the same time, I feel like because, you know, I never live with her mom.

So I'm saying like maybe it won't be a bad idea if she comes with us for a little bit. The little bit turns into a long bit. Yeah. And the long bit turns into, well, this is where we live now. and it's a generational house. And that's fine if everybody agrees to it. But it sounds like you and your fiancé are both like, this is not it.

This is not the life we pictured. Yeah, I mean, I guess with me, I don't mind, but for her, you know, she's the one that. Spencer, you don't mind? You really don't mind. Your mother-in-law, she guys opening the fridge together and the two little kids running around with your new wife. You don't mind?

Oh, well, not really when you say it like that, but... There we go. Yeah. It's okay to admit you do not want this. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean you don't love her. But there's a reason people get married. The old leave and cleave, there's a sense of independence that we're creating a new life for us together,

not dragging everyone along with us and funding their life as well. Yeah. And the guilt trips, your mother-in-law will give to her daughter, because it sounds like the ammishment at their relationship is super deep. and there's not clear boundaries and your your fiance has basically become

in a way another parent to your mom, to her mom. You know what I mean? It's like the rolls have flipped and that's not not healthy. It's not, yeah, it's not the way the progression's supposed to be. And I know life isn't perfect

and there's messiness and things happen. Absolutely. And I'm not saying you abandon her mom or anything. But it is not wrong for you both to say hi, we are both in our mid-20s. We're going to choose to start a life. together, choose to start our own nuclear family, and we're choosing to do life together. And now I'm

leaving the home mom. And that's not crazy, right? And she may have a hard situation, and you guys can choose how much you want to help in that if you want to. But there's no, there's no responsibility there. She's the daughter, right? Her mom is in charge of her own life. And so when she depends and is so dependent and codependent on her daughter, that's not good. And so if your fiance decides, yes, I do not, I don't want my mom moving in with us, I think is not only a wise move, but it's going to be a really hard conversation because when you put boundaries up with someone who's not used to boundaries or new boundaries, it's going to piss her off. Like, it's going to be really hard. It's going to be really hurtful. And she can do it in a really kind way, but she can't control how

her mom's going to respond. But that is going to be messy, messy. But that doesn't mean just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not right. And this needs to be between her and her mom. Yeah. So that you don't need this triangulation where now it's like you're in the middle going, oh, what do you want to do? You be the tiebreaker. You don't want that.

Now you support your wife in setting up the boundaries, but you don't need to get in the middle of it either. Correct, correct. Yeah, that's why I just listen to what she tells me. I give like my advice to her by stay out the mix, you know. And when I come over, it's like, doesn't have to be like. Can I be honest, Spencer? I think she wants you to take a stand.

I don't think she wants you to be Switzerland. Yeah. She wants you to bow up and say, you know what, this isn't okay. And I support you in you stopping this before it gets out of hand. And then go, hey, we're not going to leave you on the street. We want to come up with a plan to make sure that you're covered, that the kids are okay, but that doesn't mean you're going to move in with us. There's other options, right?

If you guys weren't getting married, what would she do? Yeah, so I guess the plan was she supposed to move to Jacksonville, for her sister. I guess that's the plan. It's great. Keep the plan. It's a great plan. Love that plan.

We love the plan. You should be so supportive of that plan. You should cover the moving costs for her to get to Jacksonville. That's how much you love this plan. You see where we're going with this? Yes. I need you to steer the shit. What's your hesitation, Spencer?

What's causing you to not just be like, yes, absolutely? Well, I mean, I guess knowing the hesitation is really I guess what she tells me I guess it's always like mixed emotions I guess you could say like That's fair

One day is something different And the next day it's something else And one day it's like you're saying like You know I feel bad for my mom And she did stuff for me And like you know like Okay what if They had like that idea

What if we did get a house And she came But then it's idea that I would say Oh About like okay One month One year's turns into many years, and that's not something you want.

And is she working full-time? Yes. Okay. And I think her mom just got out of actually surgery and knee surgery. So she's been out of work. Well, she still has her job, but she's out of work for about a month now. Okay. Yeah.

And you guys can be helpful, right? We're not saying you just, like, abandon a relationship by any means. But commingling your whole. lives together. That's a, that's a totally different step. And she doesn't need to feel kids about her mom taking care of her. That's why you choose to be a mom. You take care of your kids. Like, that's what you do. They don't, oh, they're not indebted to you because you took care of your kids. Yeah, that's selfish too. I'm going to have a kid so that they can take care of me in my old age of 42. How old is she? At least in her 40s. Okay. Yeah, she's not elderly.

If this was someone who's like, hey, they need care, this is different. This is a barely middle-aged woman who can work full-time. And yes, it's a hard life to be a single mom with two young kids, but it's not impossible. We hear calls all the time. And so she needs to figure out how to be independent because that's what's actually best for her. Yes. So you're actually doing this out of love, not out of spite. And I think you need to convince yourself of that. Spencer, you need to take an energy, a five, five-hour energy shot before you. Boom. Get a little, get a little aggressive in there, you know. Sometimes I'll slap myself in the face just to wake up and go, all right.

Get in the game, bud. Let's do this. You got this, Spencer. Oh, well, I'm hoping the best for you guys in setting up this boundary conversation. Call us back if you need us, Spencer. And call us back if you do let her move in, and then it's two years later, and you can't get her out, and she's not paying any of the bills, and it's chaos in your house. We'll also try to help you then.

We will. It's just going to be less fun. We'll always do it. You try to, this is the preventative medicine versus the emergency surgery. We need to evict my mother-in-in-law. and her two siblings. I know. Right, right. That's a nightmare scenario.

I know. And what if you guys want to move? And she's like, well, no, we need to stay here. My job is here. I can't afford. So you guys are really locking yourselves in with some handcuffs if you do this on top of the drama and the stress. I wouldn't be doing that as a newly white couple.

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Mike is in Philadelphia up next. What's going on, Mike? How can we help today? How are you? We're doing great. What ails you? Good. All right.

So I have been pulling my hair out the past couple days about a new truck. That's how Dave Ramsey ended up like that, man. Be careful. Pull that hair out, doesn't come back. Just real stress. I'm close to it. I'm fully gray. You know, I used to have a nice space of brown going.

Now I'm all gray about it. That's life. Listen, my car, I've had it on, you know, on the road for years now without a car payment. I love it. I'm the 1% of the world who doesn't have a car payment, I like to say. And now, unfortunately, the car is on a car payment. a lift at my buddy shop on life support. Was this a big surprise, or was it like, yeah, it kind of was getting there?

No, it wasn't a surprise. No, wasn't a surprise. I think this thing was coming, but I was in denial. So, you know, infinity with 250-something something on it, I get oil changes, left and right, premium gas, but I take care of it. And I was really hoping to squeeze just a couple of more, you know, miles out of this thing. before I had to make the jump to a new car. But of course, here we are.

You know, life springs this are here. So I have one of two ways to go. I spent all day yesterday on the Toyota Tundra lot, looking at the Tundra's and seeing how ridiculously expensive they are, versus going to my buddy shop right now, throwing the whole tax return nut on the repairs and driving off and just hoping to squeeze just a couple more miles out of Old Barry is his name.

Old Barry? So, old Barry. Oh, man. Love a Barry. He's been good. Berries are always good. Barry's been,

yeah. Barry has been fantastic to me, and I think he's still got some life left. Okay. Although the friends and family are like, listen, no. Well, we don't listen to them. We don't need to listen to them.

Okay. So, Mike, how much money do you have to buy a tundra? So I have, I would say, about six days up. Six thousand? $1,000.

Yes. Correct. I'm planning also 35 down on it. 3,500? Yes, correct. Down. I thought we were an anti-payment. Thought we were a one-percenter of not having.

The word down is in our vocabulary. Uh-oh. I know. I know. I think Barry's going to feel disappointed in you, Mike. What's the repair cost? Barry is. So Barry all in right now is $2,300, and then now I just got surprised with a new part

plus 800, so whatever that is. 3,100. Okay. So what's the car worth after you do all this? Listen, we're at 250-something thousand miles. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, is it worth $6 grand?

What kind of car is Barry? It's in 2010 and Trinity M35. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Mike, do you listen to the show? Well, do you, do you, do you, do you, yeah, do you listen? the Ramsey show a lot? No, no.

I actually just started following the whole group pretty recently. Oh, okay, okay. We'll be nice then. You were the 1% without a car payment before you knew us. Well, you called a show that helps people get out of debt, not into debt. Trust me, I'm aware, and that's, you know, but I have heard the rare stories where, you know, they're like, yeah, sure, why not? You know, you have this, this and that going on?

Why not? Oh, yes, we do tell people to buy cars, yes, new cars when they have the money to buy them. So people will call it and they're like, listen, I got 600 grand in a high-yield savings account and I want a new tundra. Then we'd be like, Mike, go get you a new tundra. If you have a net worth over a million dollars, go buy a nice car. Mike, you're kind of broke, you know. And can I be honest, Mike? You know this day was coming.

You have a $6,000 and bury in your name. You don't need to be walking around. around on a tundra lot, Mike? Yeah. You'll be a tundra guy one day, but... Right now, it's champagne taste on a beer budget, my friend. Yeah, no, we can't. No, no, no, no.

Do you know how much a tundra? You know how much a payment's going to be, Mike? I bet it's, what, 900, what, 900, close to a green... Easy. $1,200 down is a drop in the bucket for a brand new tundra. Hey, do your math. Let's, Mike is new. So show...

You want a, like a car loan payment calculator? Yes. So, listen, Mike, this is what your car payment would cost you. As Barry's sitting there on life support, but he's got another life. Okay. What's the price of the car? How much would a new tundra be? I know you know.

I believe it. Well, we don't need that. Just say like, just say. I do need to know. Oh, he's going to do investment. If he invested, sorry, George. She's just yelling at me over here. Mike, give me a break.

Will you pull up the investment calculator? Oh, got it. Okay. I see where you're going with this now. So Mike, if you went and got a new tundra, okay, and you were like everyone else in the world, and you put away, how much you think a payment is? Probably, can we call it 900?

1100? How much you think? Yeah, let's call it about 9, 950. All right, 950. How old are you? 950. How old are you, Mike? 36. 36. 36. Let's go to 62.

So let's say you're like everyone else, Mike. You go, you get this new tundra and you pay a car payment and you do it over the next, you know, five years. Then you're done with it. The tundra is five years old. You're done with the payments, but you're like, you know, I want the new tundra. You didn't save anything in the meantime. I want the 2030 tundra. So then you go get a new one and you stay in a cycle of car payments because that's what ends up happening.

So if you paid a car payment every month now until you're 62, that's your life. Versus if you keep Barry alive, you start saving up and you pay cash for your cars and you invested a car payment. You paid yourself that car payment. How much money would he have at 62? At 62, you'd have $1.4 million. Of that, you only put in less than $300,000. Compound growth did the heavy lifting. Mm-hmm.

So. Or you could spend 50 grand on a car that was worth 40 that's now worth 16. And be paying payments. Six years later. Correct. Now, let me ask you this. You know, the option to a lease to buy, you know, brings that. Oh, no.

That's even worse, Mike. Who sold you on that idea? The guy at the dealership? The tundra guy. Just wondering. Right, right, right. You know, I had a feeling. So, but I figured, listen, it's worth a shot.

to call in and just see what, you know, I know, and especially me, like I've been paying my, paying my debt down like crazy. How much debt do you have? And I'm almost getting ready to do that debt free scream. Okay, yes. Don't ruin this moment. You're going in the right direction. Keep moving, Mike.

Couldn't come at a worst time. One foot in front of that. But you know what, Mike, you have the money. You have the six grants. So you're able to fix Barry. Cover the repair. You still got three grand. Yes.

Then how much could you save up every month once you're a complete? debt-free. How much could you save in a car fund? Well, let's see. Could I ask through, so, you know, my emergency fund is back up. After this payment, the emergency fund is back up and replenished. Yep. I mean, I could. Could you put away $1,000 a month, $2,000 a month? What are we talking? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, because I don't have a rent or a mortgage. And what's your income?

So that's 85. You make $85 grand a year. So you could buy up to a $40,000 car if that was your only thing with wheels and motors on it. With cash. And you just told me you could save two grand a month. Yeah. 24 grand a year? Yeah. At the end of, yeah, think about it. In one year, you could have a $24,000 car. And if I were you, Mike, I'd go find a $24,000 tundra a year from now that's used, that someone else said, I'm done with that. I want the fancier, newer one. 100%. That's the right way to go if you want to build wealth, Mike. But if you want to look good and feel good for just three seconds, you go get that new car with a big old payment. But man, I don't want to see future Mike

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How can we help? Hey, so my question is I am a new mom, and I had a baby about seven weeks ago. And my question is, oh, thank you. My question is, does it make financial sense? at this point, really strongly considering transitioning from full-time working relatively well-paying medical job to a stay-at-home mom with losing all benefits and all those kinds of things from my current employer, also while considering my husband's employment kind of

decreasing grossly year over year. I'm just kind of lost at what to do at this point. What does he do? Medical sales. And the sales just aren't coming through? Well, it's a very seasonal area where we live in Florida. So, you know, most of the year, you know, relatively busy, but in the summer months, definitely drops off quite a bit. So kind of over the last two years, kind of bring home has been decreasing.

just based on volume. Overall. Mm-hmm. Okay. What was he making? What is he making now? I would see the range between 4 and 600,000. Oh, wow.

Well, that's a healthy range. Yeah, we're a little on the lower end. Yeah, a little on the lower end kind of on the trajectory for this year. Okay. Does he see volume picking up next year to get back to that half a million or 600? probably not until 27 when more hospitals kind of open in the area. Next year.

Yeah, probably in the latter half of next year, I would say. Yeah, does your lifestyle support you guys living on $400,000 a year? I mean, he has two kids from a previous marriage, so there's three kids total now. and I have been the one carrying like the health insurance and all of those kinds of things up to this point. His company doesn't provide that. That's not a benefit? No, because he's an independent contractor and a Navy veteran.

So he gets all his care through the VA. Okay. And family's not included in that? No, it's not. Okay. Do you actually know your total household expenses? in a given month? It is,

mortgage is probably 2,100-ish in that range and we owe maybe about 240 on a house. Okay. You know, then just like your regular electric...

Would you say you guys spend $10,000 a month to keep the household running? Between all of the things that's probably generous. Is that child support included? There's no child support.

work. Okay. Well, I'm doing math here going 10 grand a month is $120,000 a year and take-home pay. So even if you made $250,000, you'd still be able to cover all of your household bills easily on his income alone. Yeah. Now, the part to factor in is getting marketplace health insurance, which you can check out our friends at Health Trust Financial at ramesyslutions.com, and they can search for you to find out what it's going to really cost, is it might be $3,000 a month. You've got a budget for it to cover health insurance for now. But I think you guys can afford that. But even if your bills are 13 grand, if you're making $400,000 in a bad year, you're going to be okay. Yeah. I mean, and I think the biggest thing for me is transitioning from my contribution to all of that, which last year I brought in about 250 to going from all of that to zero. Now is that 250? It feels like, you know, like I'm not doing my part, you know, as a partner.

Well, the hardest part about staying home, Chantal, is disassociating your work identity from your human identity as a mom. And that part is legitimately hard, because this is all you've known. You've worked really hard to build this career, haven't you? Yeah. So, yeah, invested all this, you know, master's degree for the last 13 years, been working my butt off. Yeah, and it got you here. It got you to an amazing life.

And it's, I think what you're going to have to do is grieve that over time. and go, man, I work really hard for this and it's not the right next thing for me. Right. Do you have this new baby now? And so that's your new thing that you were contributing to as well as the household. And I think that has so much nobility and merit to it, even if it doesn't come with a big paycheck. 100%. And I say that as someone who's my wife stays at home and had an amazing nine-year career here at Ramsey.

He was at the top of her game and dropped it all to be at home. And it was a really hard decision for her emotional. but it wasn't hard financially because we set ourselves up. And you guys have done the same with this amazing income you have. Yeah. I think the other portion of that is, you know, I have been working towards, you know, obviously investing in retirement 401K, rough IRA, trying to set ourselves up, you know, at first some point that we be able to transition. So, you know, I'm going to lose all of that too as far as like corporate contribution. Sure, but you'll roll over any retirement stuff you have. You can roll

that over to an IRA. It'll continue to grow. And you can do a spousal. Spousal. Roth IRA. You guys may have to do the back door considering how much you make. I do have one question, Chantelle, then I want to get back to what you were saying. Is the 250 you're contributing part of the 400 or he's making 400? He's making 400. Okay, good. Okay. I wanted to make sure our math was right. Okay, perfect. Yeah, you guys are, if you don't build wealth making $400,000 a year, you really screwed it out. You don't have a financial problem until you have an identity problem is what it is. And the hard thing is, is so much of the applause of our world today. The scorecard at which we place our worth is our income, what people see, success, positions. All of that is what is

applauded in our world today, which is really sad because a lot of that ends up being empty. Now, if you can flip that and say, hey, that is not who I am, this is a skill set that, you know, was God-given, and I've worked hard at it. And that's a great part of me, but that is not, that's not who I am. It's maybe a part of me, but it's not my full identity. And so taking that apart, I think, is so important. And for you and your husband to sit down, and I would love him to affirm this in you that this is our household income. Like, yes, you were contributing to it, but regardless of who makes the money when it hits a checking account, we are in charge of it together. Like, you have as much say still into the money. And to the

even if you're not bringing it in. That's a healthy perspective. And it's going to be hard for you because you are very intelligent. You're very hardworking. And I'll be honest too. I mean, I felt this way when I went on maternity leave even. You might go a little stir crazy. You might be like, oh my gosh, I'm making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for so long, or I'm nursing or I'm, you know, washing burp, you know, burp cloths constantly in swaddle blankets. It's like there's a monotony to a new world that you've entered into. And so if you have to find a little outlet to kind of, like find that part of you that is so gifted, that's great too. But honestly, embracing the season you're in, it's going to go so fast. And I know everyone says that. And I even hate to say it,

because I rolled my eyes every time people said it. But it does. I'm like, it just, it flies. It flies. And so your contribution, if you're wanting to stay home and that's where you feel like your spirit, your soul is pulling you, listen to that. Listen to that. Okay. Yeah. Because it is. They're only so little for so long. Yes. And it's going to be exhausting. You can get a job again one day if you miss it. Yes. That's the good news. You're so talented.

And you're going to be tired. Like it's a different kind of tired. I think it's more tiring to be home. I could not trade places. Versus functioning with adults, you know, and having adult conversation like we are now. So yeah, you'll miss some elements of your work life for sure. But if there's ways you can still have yourself fulfilled in those things, whatever that looks like is great too. So, man, but I would, I would say, listen, listen to your heart and be home with that baby.

if that's where you're being pulled. I much appreciate your all's help. Yep, absolutely. Good luck with the transition. Congratulations. I know seven weeks in, I'm surprised you're able to call in coherently. Oh, man. That's the most impressive part.

It's exhausting. So tiring. So tiring. It is. Those baby ears, they're beautiful, but they're exhausting. I'm in it. I got an infant now. I got a toddler and I get home and I'm like, I thought I was at work.

Now I'm at work. That was a joy ride. compared to what's going on over here. I know. And I know parents are all different seasons, but it does get better and better. I know. Like our season right now.

I roll my eyes, but it's true. But right now, I'm like, it's perfect for us. Like a five to 11 year old, I'm like, stay right here. Y'all are, it's so fun. Don't grow. Don't become dramatic teenagers. Hey, guys, George Camel here.

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Based on average annual payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for full details. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y Refi. Defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and over. overwhelmed, but Y-Refi helped you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. That's why R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Toby in Missouri.

I'm 25 years old and self-employed with an average salary of $100,000 a year. I have a net worth of $400,000 and my fiancé would be out of school and getting a job within a year starting out at 95,000 a year. I have saved 200,000 to put down on a house for a down payment. Should I buy my dream home for $450,000 in the best neighborhood in town or a house that cost $200,000 in an okay neighborhood knowing that we want to move into another neighborhood in the next couple of years? We have no student loans or car payments and we'll be getting married later this year. Ooh, okay, a lot of variables here. It's like a little riddle. A lot of timing. I'm going to big. Yeah. Well, I'm wondering, can you wait to buy the house until you're married? Oh, for sure.

Why the urgency right now to get the, I would get the $450,000 house, but I would wait until you're married. Yep. Because then you know that you know that you know both incomes are there. Because what if, God forbid, maybe the wedding gets pushed and you're stuck with a mortgage payment that's a little tight for your $100,000 income, which is amazing. But you take on a $250,000 mortgage. I don't know what the payment's going to be compared to your take home pay. That's right. That's right. Right. Yes, I would assume that after you get married, you guys would be making $200,000, you put, and maybe rent for one year, right, before you jump into the new neighborhood and save an extra $5,500, right, to add to the down payment. And if you put $250 down on a $450,000,

Oh, my goodness. Beautiful. The options you have will be amazing. You'll pay off the mortgage fast, and then fast forward, let's say your fiancé wants to stay home one day. And we just took a call about that. Guess what? It's a no-brainer. You're like, yeah, our mortgage is a thousand bucks a month, or it's paid off, no-brainer to do this. Or you jump in right now with that mortgage that's a fixed payment and it gets tight if she decides to stay home. That's the kind of stuff you need to think about with a home. It's a long-term decision. So I would wait, I think renting is wise for six to 12 months, then jump on it and get that dream home, my friend. That's a great question. He's in a good place. Yes. Because we do, I mean, if you guys didn't have like a

you know, a big goal of like, oh, we want to be here and a $200,000 house was sufficient. And you're like, no, this is perfect. This is what we're wanting. And that's great. But if you know you're going to be moving up and home in three years, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't stare step in. You don't want to be jumping in and out of homes within a three years span. Because you have the money. Yeah. It's expensive. There's realtor fees. There's closing costs. It's a hassle to move. You want home appreciation to actually, you know, have some foothold here. And that's going to take at least three, four, five years. similar to the stock market because in a given year, the home price could actually dip for a little bit. And so I think you're doing it the right way. Toby, I would just be patient and wait until you're married to pull the trigger on the home. That's awesome.

All right, Patrick is down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee. What's going on, Patrick? Hey, how are you doing today? Great. How can we help? Great. So I'm 26 years old, and I just landed a job straight out of college. I agree. I make about 73. $30,000 a year. I don't have any credit card debt. I do owe on a vehicle, and I've got about $63,000 dollars saved in a CD account and in savings. And my CD account is about to renew here in the next month, and I'm really just wanting to know, is there somewhere else I can put my money to really let it grow, and then how can I start to utilize these savings for the future?

Great questions. You're doing really good at 20, What is left on your debt? What's the balance? So I only owe $25, just shy of $26,000 on a vehicle. Only. That's a lot of money where I came from. It is. It is.

And I'm more than willing to pay it off, and I'm comfortable paying it off right here right now. Do it. Do it while you're on the phone with us. Prove it. I've been putting it in the works, but I just want to know, you know, I've got a considerable amount of money left over, and I just really want to be able to put it to work, especially since the job I'm in is a good salary, and it's only going to increase throughout the years. Right. Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

I'm not, and I want to start. Okay. So let me run you through some napkin math here to help you. You got 63 in CD and savings. I would not renew that CD. I would get out of that and just park it in high-ield savings. you're going to use 26 of that to pay off your car loan, right? Yes.

So that brings you down to 37,000. Now we need an emergency fund, unless you have other savings outside of this, but you need three to six months of expenses saved up in an emergency fund. You can park that in the high-ield savings. How much would that be for you? I think for six months it'd probably be about 24,000. Great. So we're going to take 24 out of the 37, which leaves you with 13,000.

That's really the number we're working. working with. And now think about it, you got an amazing financial foundation, no payments, six months of expenses saved up, 13 grand two now invest. And what I would do first is just fund a Roth IRA for the year. That's $7,500 right there. Are you tracking with me on what that is? You know, I'm new. I've heard Roth IRA, but I'm not going to lie. I'm not familiar with it. No, it's all good. I'll give you a quick explainer. So an IRA is just an individual retirement arrangement. It's just an account that's outside of an employer where you can invest money with some tax advantages. And so there's traditional IRA, which means you're going to get,

you're going to get some tax benefit now, but you'll pay taxes later when you withdraw it. On the growth. And the Roth version says, hey, what if you use your after-tax money, essentially your take-home pay to fund it, but then you don't pay taxes to Uncle Sam ever again? And so I love that tax-free growth, the rest of your life. I mean, you're a young guy, that's some amazing opportunity. So funding that for the year, the maximum is $7,500 for 2026. So you can open up a Roth IRA, fund $7,500, and you'll still have some money left over, which is incredible. And then beyond that, you've got to think about what are my future financial goals. Do I need to upgrade the car? Do I need to save up for a home down payment? And so you want to think about short-term goals, high-ield savings, long-term goals, let's invest it. Yeah, and Patrick, at that point, you know, we have the, we have what's called the seven baby steps. So it's a $1,000 emergency fund, get completely debt free, everything but the house. And then a three to six month emergency fund. So you've done all of that because of the savings that you've done so well stocking, stockpiling that cash. And then baby steps four, five, and six is what you're going to move forward with. And babysept four is funding 15% of your income into retirement. So that Roth IRA would be included in that 15%. So from now on, Patrick, you need. need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement. So that's Roth IRAs.

It's about $11,000 for you. Yep, $11,000 a year. Okay, it needs to be going in an investment. So Roth IRA would be included in that. Does your employer have a 401K? I'm still fairly new and I'm figuring all those numbers. I do know that we have a pension after if your age and your years serve equal a certain amount.

Okay. Yep. So if there is an option for any kind of retirement, within your company, then, you know, that would be great. And any kind of investment. So sometimes there's a match as well to where they go, hey, if you put in 3%, we're going to also match 3%. So you doubled your money, 100% percent return, just like that.

So that's the first place to go. And then beyond that, like I talked about the Roth options. That's after tax money, but it grows and you can withdraw it without taxes again. And then beyond that, if you run out, you can go to traditional options as well. And I'll walk you through this, Patrick, in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'll send you a copy. There's a chapter called Wealth is Patience, and you, my friend, have all the time in the world to be patient.

You're a young man who's doing great. Yeah, you're on the right track, Patrick. So just remember, stay out of debt, invest in the long-term CDs. Percentage-wise, you're getting what? What do you think of CDs right now? Probably one, two, three? Upwards close to four, but not quite. Okay, okay.

Better than I was thinking. But yeah, you're going to get better returns investing your money in the market. But again, doing it wisely. And George, in his book, will walk you step by step by that, so make sure to read that when that comes to you, Patrick. Can we do some quid pro quo, Patrick? Can you promise me you'll pay off the car if I send you the book? Absolutely. I'm planning to do it, and I knew that was going to be the first thing that we're going to tell me. Yes. Well, dude, think about how much is the payment on that thing?

What's the car payment? It's about $5.13. You just became $6,000 a year richer. You just got a raise just like that, Patrick. Man, I'm happy for you. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of breaking free from broke. Enjoy. Rachel, a key theme on the show here is getting control of your money takes intentionality. And the application of that requires a budget. There's just no other way to do it if you're not paying attention to your money. And so we created an app for that called Every Dollar so that you can actually take control of it. Find the extra money.

Use that margin to help you build wealth and get out of debt. And the newest version of Every Dollar builds you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. The Ramsey Plan is baked in. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands of debt. in hidden margin, you'll feel like you got to raise. So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Go start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. You know what I was just doing during the break?

What are you budgeting? Tracking your transactions? Yep. She practices what she preaches. Yes. And it feels so good. You got a little dopamine hit? Well, the Costco one hit.

Oh, that one never feels good. That was not like fun, but it's in the budget. It still doesn't feel good. Costco, science will study Costco for years to come as to how they convinced everyone to spend hundreds while somehow thinking they saved money. I know. And my kids get locked in on certain snacks. There's like a little protein drink. It's like a little monkey on the front. They're so expensive, but they're $9 off. So I was like, you know. I thought about that. My daughter gets her a little like pouches, you know. Yeah.

And my wife likes the crunchy, like clean ones. Oh, yes. They're like two dollars a pouch. So when she doesn't finish one, I'm like, you're going to finish that pouch. Dad paid good money for that pouch. We're going to put that in the refrigerator and you're going to reuse that pouch. I know. I know. That's life. All right, John is in Virginia Beach up next. What's going on? John, how can we help today? All right. Well, so my wife and I have just finished paying off all of our credit cards. Woo-hoo. Good feeling. Nice. Good job.

We are moving on to our bigger debts next. We have a student loan, a HELOC, and we also have a car note that we're paying off. My question is, the student loan is the next largest one. And her student loan is through the government, and it's in forbearance right now until, I think, 2028. So there's no minimum payment that's required on it right now. Do I start paying on that since it's the next smallest one, or do I go to the next biggest one, which is the truck note? And like paying additional on it. That's a great question. So what's the total balance of the debts?

Student loans right at $14,000. The truck is right around 20, and the HELOC's right around 47. Okay. What's the smallest student loan? Up next. So her student loans got all consolidated into one back under the previous president's administration, so it's all wrapped into one payment. Okay.

Well, here's the deal. Interest is still accruing in forbearance. Sure. So even though they're like, hey, you don't have to make a payment, that balance is ballooning because you're not knocking down the principal at all. So I would absolutely treat it like any other debt and just attack that one first at 14, How quickly can you knock that one out? Probably in about a year, maybe 16 months at most.

Okay. So 12 months from now you're moving on to the car loan? Correct. All right. And then the helox next. All right, you're on the path. Yeah, I would absolutely knock out that student loan. The problem and the thing I hate about forbearance is it makes people think they are like,

who, I got some relief. Yes. And they look at the balance six months later, and it's so much bigger than it was the last time they looked at it. Yeah, that was my concern. Thankfully, they're low interest. I think it's a four and a half percent interest, which obviously is low, but the interest is still accruing and adding to the balance when I'm not making payments on it. So I just wanted to make sure that that was the right next move. The interest could not be low enough unless it's gone. Zero percent with no payment is the only one I'm okay with. So I would knock it out just as aggressively as if it was 40 percent interest. That's the spirit that will get you out of this fast and not be a grueling, you know, four-year journey. So can you knock the rest out? And let's say, under two years? Probably maybe a little over two at most, but I wouldn't, I don't see why not.

That's the spirit, John. Well done, y'all. Well done. And you got the credit cards out. That feels good. Those ones are real icky. Not fun. Hopefully you cut them up.

All right, Kegan is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota up next. What's going on, Keegan? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's going on? So I am a full-time law student, and I'm living with my parents. or I'm in school. They are supporting me, you know, providing me with food and housing. I'm going

to graduate with no student debt, and I'm wondering what I can do to pay my parents back once I graduate. Wow, that's amazing. First of all, way to go. Going to law school debt-free. How did you do that, by the way? Because we got a lot of calls of people saying it's impossible. Well, you know, my wife and I are big fan of you guys, so we wanted to try and do this debt-free, so I studied hard for the L-Sat, got a high score, and I managed to get a full scholarship. Whoa! Wow, well done. So just be a boy genius like Keegan, and you can avoid that.

Just be as smart as Keegan, and you can do it. Yeah, Matt, that's incredible. Okay, so did your parents set up any arrangement with you? Did they talk about any financial aspect of you living with them and them covering food? No, they are just doing this out of the kindness of their heart. They want to support me, and they know that this is a goal of mine. And so they have no expectation that I pay them back, but, You just want to.

I just want to, and I don't think they would take just a check for me to say thanks. That's what I was going to say. You write out a check. He's going to rip it up, I'm guessing, right? Yep. But will you still feel like you did your part in attempting to pay them back? I think that might ease some of my burden, yeah. Well, you know what you're giving them?

The flex of saying, oh, yeah, my kid's a lawyer. That's what every parent wants, man. You're giving it to them. The check can not touch that. They're just proud of you, aren't they? They are. They're very proud, and I know they don't expect anything, but I thought maybe I'd take them on a vacation or something.

That's a fun idea. Yeah, I think that's great. Force them into an experience. And, you know, sometimes it's hard, Kagan, even, you know, as an adult, to accept the generosity of others. It kind of puts you in a humble position, you know what I mean? To have to, yeah, accept that. And so there's something beautiful about that.

that your parents had the ability and have set you guys up and that you guys have been so smart. I mean, it's unbelievable the decisions you guys have made. So, yeah, I think there's for sure ways that you can be creative and, you know, take them on a trip or, you know, whatever that looks like. I think that's great. If you, like, notice around the house, man, that grill could use an upgrade. Once I graduate and I get a job, I'm just going to surprise them with a great grill, you know. So there's things you can still do to be generous. Yeah.

And there's stuff like that too, you know, depending on where they are financially, you know, that as you guys start to build wealth, that, you know, it's a beautiful thing to be generous to people that don't expect it or don't feel entitled to it, you know. And so that's part of living like no one else. Later you get to live and give like no one else. And giving to your family is one of those things that you absolutely can do. So yeah, I'm all about that. I think that's great. I think it comes from a good place in your heart that there's and there's no, you know, weirdness of feeling like, gosh, they're expecting this or they have to. It really is just your, you saying thank you to them. And I think that's beautiful. Yeah. Thank you so much. Absolutely. I'm inspired by this.

I know. And I feel like paying it forward is one of the best things you can do. You do this for your family. You set them up so that no one in your family tree ever goes into debt. That's a pretty incredible legacy to leave. That goes way beyond repaying them an unknown amount. Like, what does this really cost? I don't know.

I'll try to check for five grand and call it good. Yeah. Right, right. I don't think they're needing it or expecting it. It sounds like they're in a great spot financially. Yes. So they're not put out by you staying there. But it's impressive.

The whole story just makes me go, that's how to do it. I know. If it was ever a poster child, it can be done, and that's how to do it. And he said, we've been following you guys a long time, and we just decided, I don't want to leave law school with debt. Yes. So what did he do? He found away. He worked his butt off to get a great LSAT score so that he got a full ride.

Yes. Is that difficult? Sure. Is he privileged? just, no, he just worked his butt off. He was smarter than you because he worked harder than you to be smarter than you. That's how it works. I think I probably could work that hard, and I still wouldn't get me.

I would love for Rachel. I want Rachel and I to take the L-SAT just to see who fails worse. We should just take the SAT or the ACT again. Yeah, honestly, you could give me a common core math problem for a fifth grader and I'd fail it. Listen, it is humbling doing homework with a fifth grader. You're like, oh, man. Even solving for X at this point in my life would add some anxiety. It's pretty, yeah, when the fraction is.

come in, you're like, oh man, I got to remember how to do this. It's crazy that we didn't end up using it. Like, I know math teachers out there are really angry with me right now, but who's using the Pythagorean theorem? Well, not that, but we use math every day on the show. We're sitting here. Basic math. Basically dividing by 12 all the time. How much you make a year? Divided by 12. I've got an investment calculator at Ramsey Solutions.com at the ready. I know. But take that. Oh, man. We need Dave back here with his financial calculator, the old school one at the desk. Oh, yeah. Just, just, just. Back to analog, Dave.

Let's go back. He's going to keep that thing alive. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at AAA-8-25-2-2-25. Michelle keeps us going in Phoenix. What's going on, Michelle? Thank you for having me on the show.

I'm excited. Oh, we are too. Don't be nervous. Rachel will guide you through this. Okay. I'm the anxious one. Where do I start? You tell me, what ails you right now?

What's the main thing on your mind? Oh, my gosh. Well, my husband and I've made stupid decisions, and we are, I've just turned 58. My husband is going to be 57 in August. How do we overcome our large debt plus our house and the bills that come with that, but we have debt. Okay. So if you just kind of parse out the conditions.

consumer debt versus your mortgage debt. How much consumer debt do you have? Oh, gosh. Let's see, that's about $10,000, $10,000, $20,000, almost $50,000, about $48,000. Okay. And what's your household income? We have $98,800 before tax and insurance. Oh, and also I have a school. I will have school debt because I'm going to school. I was dumb going to get my master's, and I graduate in a month thinking it was going to help me, and I should have done it when I was younger. So that's on top of the 48? Yes. How much more? I think, well, to be honest, I was kind of confused when I looked at the FASA, it looked like it was 18,000, but then when I looked at my school's website, it said 28,000. Oh, boy. Okay. Yeah. Yep. All right, that puts us at a grand total of about $76,000.

And consumer debt? Making 98? Okay, at least now we have facts and figures. That's all we're trying to do right now is sort of get out of the emotion and overwhelm and just go, okay, what's actually the reality of our situation? Right. So break down the other $48,000 in debt. A credit card for $10,000, about $10,790. Personal line of credit, about $11,560.

air conditioner. So we had to buy two air conditioning units for our house last year because they broke in the middle of the summer. And we were at what then didn't know what to do. So we ended up having to get a loan for that. And that's about $25,083. Yeah. And then the school debt. Are either of you able to increase your income in the foreseeable future? To be honest, that's what I was hoping I would be able to do. And I didn't have any luck. And it could be the way I interviewed. view. It could be my age. It could be everything wrapped into one. That's why I thought getting my master's, which is something I wanted to do years ago. But I started and then I stopped back in 21 when my mom got sick. And then I thought, I'm going to finish it in hoping that would help me. So we ended up getting jobs that are hard labor. And for our age, I'm actually kind of, you know,

I was kind of embarrassed that I had to go back to a hard labor job, but you got to do what you got to do to pay a bill, you know. But I have been there for two and a half years. So I was hoping to grow in that company since I've already been there. Will the MBA help you? Will I give you a raise? Not necessarily. Not the job I'm in right now, but I was hoping it would help me get promoted, but the job is kind of, it's kind of a different company, how they promote within. Well, if I were you, I'd be going, how can I use this MBA to double my salary so that I can get out of debt before I retire? That's really the goal now is can we get out of this thing in the next three, four, five years, maybe stack up retirement. Do you guys have anything in retirement?

No, Mel, and that's the other night. It was one of the stupid things we did when we moved from Minnesota to Arizona. We used my husband's retirement and pension at that time, and then we were pretty good, but then we were making dumb decisions. What do you mean you used it for the move? You cashed out? Well, no, well, we cashed it out, but we bought a place that was paid for, and then we ended up selling it thinking that would be the way to go, and it wasn't the way to go. We should have kept it because it was paid for. But now you have a mortgage.

And now we have a mortgage because we had to have a bigger house. This is the whole thing. We had to have our daughters and grandbabies live with us. It was kind of a- Michelle, the key word in your life you need to get rid of is we had to. That is what has caused you to be broke. At every turn, we had to, we had to, we had to. Yeah.

You have to retire with dignity. That's the only have to at this point. So everything else is out the window. Yeah, out of the 98th that you guys bring home a year, what number do you bring home? What does he bring home? Mine is 40,408. I wrote it down before so I could be ready for the call.

Yeah, that's great. And then his is 54,392. And of course, it's all before tax and everything. Okay. And we're not doing 401K. Okay, tell us about the house. How much do you owe on the house? What was it?

343,658. You owe 340. And how much is it worth? Maybe about 500,000. Okay. What's the payment on that? Yeah, 2270. And what's your take-home pay every month?

Is it close to like $5 or $6,000? About that, I think, total together. Because I think he brings after, and he pays the insurance, so $6,000,000, per week, maybe, give or take. Do you still need this bigger house? Not really, and I've talked to my husband about that, But he's really set in his ways and hard to change, but maybe it will. And he does hard labor at 57?

Yeah, we work at the same company. Well, he's going to be set in his ways until he realizes he can't keep this up for 10 years to climb out of this mess. Right. And then he's going to be forced to. So if I'm in your shoes, truthfully, based on what you've told me, I would consider selling the house, clearing all of your debt. That way your income can now be used to fund retirement, and you guys just rent for a while. and if your income goes up

and you can own a home again, that's great. Okay. Right now, you're stuck. Yeah, you could clear 150 out of the home. Man, I don't know, there's a part of me, I don't know, George, that if you could go, I mean, and it's going to be a different type of lifestyle, Michelle, so I just don't know if how you guys would feel about this. But if you could find something, a $200,000 condo or $100, I mean, if you could get a $1.5,

I mean, I don't even know. Yeah, downgrade and pay cash. Pay cash, and then that frees up 2,500 a month that you guys could throw at this debt. Because that's almost half your take-home pay going out to this mortgage alone. So you're not going to be able to make headway on your debt. And you guys need to start being creative because you're going to be working for another decade. And if you can't stay in this job, then you guys are going to start getting creative and think through where else long-term could we be to be making even more money, if possible. Obviously, I know that's ideal.

There is another thing, too, that we – so my mom just passed, and we did – get a little bit of inheritance from her. So we ended up buying a condo and paid cash for it as an investment property. What? You buried the lead, Michelle. Go live in that thing. Forget your renters. Can you go live there?

I wouldn't want to, but I mean, you got to do what you got to do sometimes. Yeah, you told me you're willing to do what it takes. Or how much is that worth? Probably about 150. So either move into it or sell it. Yes. And then you can maybe stay in this home. Yes.

The mortgage is still too much for your take-home pay, so it doesn't solve that problem, but at least it clears your debt. True. Yeah, I'd sell the house, and I would go moving something smaller, and I'd sell that investment property. Michelle, you guys have $78,000 in consumer debt, and no retirement. No, sell it, pay off this debt, invest the rest, and be done. That's your choice. You can try to work until 70 and maybe get out of this thing and still have a mortgage, or you can do it our way. and find a path to freedom way sooner.

That's what I would be doing if I was in your shoes. I ain't doing hard labor. Look at me. If you want to grow, get better at communication. Until you figure that out, you're not going to move forward. I've been there. In my new book, Stop Talking, Start Communicating. I unpack the one thing that unlocked communication for me, the disc assessment.

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So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about $439,000. The number of homes for sale hit a million for the third month in a row. So buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. The average 15-year fixed rate dipped to 5.86% last month. So if you're debt-free, you got a fully funded emergency fund, a solid down payment. Now is still a great time to buy or sell your home. So to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy yourself with confidence, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash market.

Or if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube, click the link in the show notes. Stephen is in Nashville up next. Stephen, welcome to the show. Hi there. Thanks, taking the call. Absolutely. What's going on? So a few years ago, a friend of mine came to me and asked to start a business.

It's a landscape service, you know, project-based business. And things have been going well. You know, we've been growing, making money. And then out of the blue said that, you know, he can't do, doesn't want to continue the partnership anymore. And we have an operating agreement. So I said, okay, well, we'll go about it the way that the agreement says, get a valuation done.

and I kind of did that, whereas he is saying, no, the business isn't worth anything. It's only worth what we own. And I believe that's different based on, you know, the goodwill and the cash flow and the profit that we've made. And we've kind of reached a stalemate at this point. And I don't really know where to go from here as far as how to kind of leverage the situation to kind of get this clean and over with. So does he not want to pay him? to get a valuation because he thinks it's worth nothing? Is that the deal?

No, he doesn't want to pay for the company. He kind of just wants to dissolve it and then start the exact same thing on his own, you know, the second that that's done. What does the valuation cost? I mean, 1,500 to 2,500 depending on... And have you done that already? Have you gotten an evaluation? I've got an informal one, and then I spoke with an SBA lender.

That's a friend of mine and gave him our tax returns and said, hey, say I was trying to buy out my business partner, what would you guys approve, you know, on a loan? Because obviously they're not in the business of making bad deals. And they set a valuation of around 775, you know, so making my 50% shares anywhere from that 350 to 360 range. Yeah, that's a big gap from it's worth nothing to it's worth three quarters of a million dollars. Now, I would not go into debt to buy him out. If you wanted to continue this, you could do some sort of like profit sharing agreement. Yeah, sorry. I'm a little confused. Is he just wanting to leave? He wants out and wants to start his own. He wants me out.

Oh, he wants you out. Oh, I'm sorry. He basically wants to run a solo business. And I was like, well, just let him leave and you keep the whole business. Yeah, what does the operating agreements say if the business, one of the partners want to get out? It says, obviously, get evaluation done, you know, then multiply that by your shares. We're 50-50 owners. And then you can either do it through an SBA or if the operating agreement says a 20% down and then four-quarterly installments for 60, you know, 60 quarters, so basically 15 years, which is kind of egregious, I think. And that puts me at risk in case, you know,

he defaults. And I would, you know, whoever's on the other end of that, I wouldn't imagine that that's a very... Do you guys have any debt in the business currently? Yeah, like equipment and machine loans, probably a little over $100,000. I'd just, I don't know. thing, 120,000. Hmm. Well, I mean, if the agreement says you get a valuation, then I don't see how it's illegal for you to take that out of the business checking account and go get a valuation.

What's stopping you from doing that? That's not the issue. It's that whatever that valuation comes back as, he's going to say, no, it's not worth that. I'm not paying that. Why don't you just buy me out? And then there's a two-year, not-compete attached to our operations. agreement, but... Well, if it's worth nothing,

then you don't have to buy him out. Isn't that what he's saying? That's what I'm thinking. I don't understand. Let it be worth nothing and go, all right, there's nothing to give you. And then he can leave and start his own thing, right? Yes, now the other part of the that comes into it is

I picked up my, essentially my life and moved out of Nashville down to, you know, we're kind of in his home turf where he grew up. I'm from Ohio. Football brought me down here. And so I'm in a area. that really the only reason I moved down here was because we were running a business that was that was doing well.

Well, are you capable of running the business on your own or hiring someone to help? Sure. Yeah, no doubt. I'm definitely capable, but if he's going to turn around and start another company. Well, where do you want to live, Stephen? About, you know, in the Nashville area. We're about an hour and some, you know, an hour and change. Okay.

So you would rather live somewhere else. So then why don't you go get new clients elsewhere? I can do that. Obviously, you know, selling the house that I live in now, I got my first child do in a month, not even a month plus in a month. My wife's, you know, we do a health insurance through her job here. The logistics of it all are just not great to leave with no form of compensation or buyout in that case. I'm guessing nobody would actually buy your business. I mean, no, probably. We're not in a very desirable location. And that's his argument, is that it's not worth. Yeah, he says it's not worth.

Obviously, if we sold it to an outside buyer, it would be tough for them to do that. Now, all the contacts that we've built in the last three years, if he is still going to continue. Is he going to poach all the current clients? I mean, yeah, essentially, yes. if we were to divide ourselves right now and I start my own company and you start your own company and we're going to be competing, you know, for the same clients.

He's going to say, hey, I started my own thing. Come over here. Sure. Yeah, you guys need to come to a consensus on what these next steps are. Otherwise, this is going to be a bloodbath. Exactly. And there's debt time. Now the debt part is the risk. Yeah.

It's an LLC, you know, so we each have 50% of it. Okay. So if he leaves the business, he's still liable for the debt. Yes. Has he thought through that? Unless I were to say, unless I were to,

well, no, he doesn't want to leave the business. He's not going to leave the business. He wants to get me out of the business. I thought he wants to start his own. Yeah. And you don't want to do this anymore, right? I do, but I'm not, I don't want to, I'm not going to do it by myself down here.

And he can't afford to buy you out to do the solo. I mean, he could. He's saying that he won't, though. Yeah. That's what I'm so confused about. He wants to do a solo. He can't afford to. You got a couple of options.

Either you guys just dissolve the business. You start your own thing. He starts his. You sell the assets, pay off the debt, and just say, what a bad deal that was. You go your way. I go mine. And you've got to outperform him in your new gig. You know what I mean?

To get it competition-wise. Because you're not willing to move. I just asked you in the middle of the call. And you're like, well, I got a baby. on the way, a house, my wife. So you're not moving. You're stuck regardless of the business. So you either are going to do this business or do a business like this or you got to go find a different job or you go move and do this business. If you feel like the competition is too much. I would move. You know, I would move if, you know, we each took six figure salaries last year.

And essentially nothing's going to change for, you know, for my partner. Whether we dissolve or he buys me out, Like he's still going to continue like business as usual. Well, you. And so without me in the picture, there goes a six-figure race. So I'm figuring if I could be compensated somehow for, you know, giving you the other 50% of this company guy. Yes, but Stephen, it doesn't make sense. If he wants out, if he wants the business by himself, then yes, then he needs to write you a check. I 100% agree.

And if he's not willing to write you a check, then you can say, I'm not leaving the business. Then he has to decide he's out and he may go start his own. own thing and then yeah you got competition in the area but it is what it is so yeah but i still have the infrastructure and everything of our business correct yeah yeah so you got to you got to say good luck bud game on yeah and then you can that's kind of what i was thinking that it was going to end it on is well if you're not going to buy me out then we're going to continue to be partners 100 this is a classic we can do this the hard way or the easy way but yeah the debt tied to it's a whole other thing you guys got to figure out maybe you guys form a new agreement you guys form a new agreement

saying, hey, we're staying in this thing until the debts are paid, and then here's how it's going to get divvied up. I think maybe you rip up the current one and draw a new one up that makes sense for both of you because the current one is not really working. A ship that does not sail, partnership. Nailed it. It's a hard thing to do that. And it ruins the friendship. It does. On top of it all. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same, kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show.

Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz. And in the third chair, we've added a special guest. We've got Matt Clark, president and chief operating officer at Churchill Mortgage.

You've heard of Churchill because they've been our trusted mortgage partner for more than 30 years now. And Matt has over two decades of experience at Churchill. He's got some deep industry knowledge. So we wanted to bring him on to help explain to our audience. What the heck is going on in the housing market? When are the rates going to magically come down, Matt? Where is your crystal ball? Well, if I had a crystal ball and I knew where rates were going to go,

I wouldn't be here right now. I think that's the biggest question for us. You'd be on an island somewhere. Be on an island somewhere. Oh, man. It's so hard. Rates are just unstable right now. With everything that's going on in the geopolitical climate, with the war in Iran, with oil prices,

I mean, rates are very sensitive to those things. And so it's really hard to tell what rates are going to do. They're quite unstable. Rates are kind of like trust. They get worse really fast, and it takes a long time for them to come back down and get better. And so I just think right now people just need to recognize that they got to be patient. And there's no way to really predict what rates are going to do. Yeah.

Would you say you're pretty confident? They'll probably, like, would we ever see in our lifetime the like 2% again? Like, do you think that's probably from the past, would you assume? Ever is a long time. Yeah. But I'm not banking on them coming down to the 2% again. Yes, to what it was. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you find that there's some golden handcuffs out there with people that are hanging on to their 3% rate and so they'll never going to move now. They're like, well, now I'm stuck here. This is my starter home and now it's the forever home. Yeah, I do. I think we call that rate locked that people are afraid to let go of that rate. And at the end of the day, I think if they can afford and they want to buy a house right now, even though their rate may go up, if it fits their budget, it may not be a bad idea. Yeah, absolutely. Well, speaking of budget, first time home buyers, that's the most frustrated population out there because they're going, dude, how do I step into this

jump rope going 90 miles an hour. I'm going to get hurt. What do you say to them when it comes to rates moving around, how much that affects their mortgage payment? I would tell them to focus much less on the rates moving around and much more on is their budget ready for them to be a homeowner. And as soon as they feel like their budget is ready for them to be a homeowner to jump in. I want to talk about pre-approval. It's someone we don't talk about a lot of the show, but it's one of those things where you go through the process and you're like, I didn't understand I needed to do this. So talk about pre-approval. And Churchill has something special called certified homebuyer. We do. I mean, when I think about pre-approvals, I think there are really three different types of,

quote-unquote, approvals that a lender can give you. There's, they have a phone call with you and collect some general information and tell you, yeah, I can approve you for X amount. And that's a pre-qualification. And they take that piece of paper and they bring it to their real estate agent. That agent presents that when they make an offer on a home. And quite frankly, it's not really worth a whole lot because it's not gone through any evaluation. We most likely haven't collected a lot of documentation. Then there's your standard pre-approval where you collect some information. You're on credit.

You see what the financials are. You look at income statements. You look at W-2s. And you make a high-level credit assumption based on some automated models and we send you out with a pre-approval. And then there's what we do at Churchill, which is what we call a certified homebuyer. And with a certified homebuyer program, we actually fully underwrite your credit and send you off with a fully credited approved approval, which allows you to really shop with confidence. And we put on top of that a rate secured program where we lock you in for an extended period of time 90 days. Oh, wow.

So that it takes the uncertainty of that approval away. because you know if interest rates go up, you're already protected. And you get to keep that lower rate. You get to keep that lower rate. And if they go down, we just lock you in when you find a house at the market rate. So you get the best of both worlds. That's impressive. And on top of that, we throw on a $10,000 guarantee to the seller so that if you present an offer to a seller with a certified homebuyer,

we guarantee that seller that your credit is good. The only thing that could go wrong there is appraisal or title work. and if something happens, we pay the seller 10 grand. Wow. So just to back up that process. That's impressive. So on a spectrum, let me recap this. You have the, this person might be good for the money.

You have they're probably good for the money with a standard pre-approval. And then you have the, they are definitely good for the money with the certified homebuyer program. And you're able to go into that. So, you know, we have a lot of new listeners to the show. I feel like even most of our callers, they're like, I've just gone on to you guys. So people that are looking to get into the market, but they're doing the baby steps. so they're working their way out of debt. They've now have an emergency fund,

and then they have some money for a down payment. Okay. At that point, you know, their credit score may be tanking as we speak and or it's undetermined if it's been long enough, right? They don't have a credit score. So that is one thing that's a little different with Ramsey that we say, yes, you can still get a house without a credit score. And we always recommend you guys,

because you guys are always the place that we say to go to because not everyone can do it, not everyone will do it. But what does that look like to get, a mortgage without a credit score. First, I want to make sure people hear this clearly. Getting a mortgage without a credit score does not mean credit score doesn't matter if you have one. Yes. It doesn't bypass your current score. It doesn't bypass a bad score if you have one. So the tanking one, not good. You can't really buy them. Yeah. Tanking one is a challenge. But when you when you come to us with no credit score or what's called an indeterminable score, we look at trade lines. We look at your

ability to pay your bills. And so you have to have more than just living in mom and dad's basement and not paying any bills on your own. You actually have to have some sort of established history of taking care of your financial responsibilities. Things like cell phone bills and other utility bills or other types of monthly payments that we can use to create an alternate credit profile and move you forward on a no score alone. And that's on top of 12 months of rental payment history. Because a lot of people say, well, I live with mom and dad. We never had an agreement about it. And you guys go, well, we don't know that you can pay a housing bill on time.

12 months of housing payments is part of that process as well. Is it that? So, yeah, so that's the important part. But it can be done, which I think is. I mean, I've done it. And I know that that's not saying much because everyone goes, well, it was easy for you to say, no, I got out of debt, didn't have a credit score. And you guys are the specialist in no score loans.

I imagine you've probably done more no score loans in the modern world than any mortgage lender out there. More in the modern world than anyone ever. And we do it better. I talk to real estate agents. They go, you can't do that. And I go, yeah, I can. You've not heard of Churchill mortgage? Where have you been?

Watch me. Oh, my goodness. Well, I do want to hit on closing costs because a lot of people, we talk about the down payment so much. Yes. And then people forget that there's other costs associated. So what should people expect to pay when it comes to closing costs in general? This can vary widely. Yeah, closing costs consists of a lot of different things.

One, there are lender fees. Every lender has their own administrative fees, processing fees, underwriting fees. then you have things that are going to be consistent across the industry. You're going to have to pay for an appraisal. You're going to have to pay for title insurance. You're going to have to pay for credit report fees. There are state taxes and tax transfer fees that you have to pay for. And so when you think about rate and you think about getting to the closing table,

there's a lot of things that will impact what you have to bring to the table in your closing cost. The key is getting that transparently put in front of you early on so you're not surprised at the end. And you can get those estimates from your loan office. Or you should be. Help me understand all of the things I'm going to be paying for so that I'm ready. Yep. You want to be caught up. H-O-A fees. All of those things end up surprising people at the end. Yes. Which creates problems for them not having an amount of cash to come closing with. To be able to do it all. Yeah. So the full pictures is so key. So someone that is entering into the market for the first time, they may feel kind of intimidated and they're like, oh my gosh, am I ready?

Can I do this? Like what are a couple of tips? you have. We'll say for first-time home buyers, and maybe people that haven't, you know, maybe they do, they locked in the 2% and they're like, we're never going to move. And they're like, okay, actually, we're going to look for another house. But it's been decades since they bought something new. What are a couple of things that you're like, okay, this would be good. From your seats, you're like, these are things that you probably need to do. Well, one, talk to somebody who's going to be patient with you and ask you the right questions. Find out what you're trying to accomplish and where you are.

I remember so well when I bought my first house, 23 years old. I had a child. Another one on away I was desperate to buy a house. I found a realtor. They put me in touch with an agent, a loan officer. They had a relationship with. And all I wanted to do was tell me how much I could buy. And I ended up not knowing anything. Yeah. And so I let my anxiety cause me to make a bad decision and bought a house that was more than I could afford with a mortgage at a rate that I knew nothing about other than they told me I could afford it. That's good. Get the facts. Ask the questions. That's good. Now, thank you for being here.

If you guys are ready to start your home buying process, the Ramsey Way Church Hill Mortgage can help. They're the folks we trust. And they have a special offer for you. 500 bucks off your home appraisal credit at closing. Only at churchill mortgage.com slash Ramsey offer. Go check it out. Thanks again, Matt.

Thank you. Thanks for being here. When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term sacrifice

for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it? Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our every dollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day, ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the every dollar app and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 510, He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income. This also is vanity. Chris Rock said, wealth is not about having a lot of money, it's about having a lot of options. Well said. Yes, I agree with that. Both Solomon and Chris Rock, bringing the heat. Love it. All right. Charlie is in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Charlie?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. So I've been retired for about six or seven years. I'm 67 and retired about 60. and we're currently worth about $2.4 million. Awesome. And annuities and IRAs, Roth IRAs in our house and emergency fund about

or high yield savings about 300,000 and emergency fund about 50,000. But so my call is that and we were debt-free and in Social Security we make about $56,000 in social security a year. Okay. Between my wife and I.

And we have our annuity that pays about $25,000 a year. Okay. And which we haven't even started taking yet, but that's what the current balance would, I mean, the current flow would be. Okay. And then also on the side, I officiate high school and college sports and make about $25,000 to $30,000 doing that. Wow. That's an impressive side hustle.

Yeah. So I have, we have these assets, but I'm still, I'm more collecting than I am spending. That's my problem here. You want to start decumulating instead of accumulating. I can't seem to let go. And if I, you're like my wife and I took a road trip just a week or so ago. and I hooked up for like five additional volleyball games. It's one of the sports I ref so I could pay for it, even though I could pay for it.

Gotcha, yes. It doesn't represent reality. It's just you're stuck in your scarcity loop right now. Yeah. Yeah, that is hard. And I'm just wondering, what's a good way to try to change that? You know, like my wife says, well, I say, I need stuff. Did you just go out and buy it?

And I was like, well, I got to go get a gig before I can buy so I can pay for it. Did you grow up with money? I know. Are you the first one in your family to be a millionaire and be at this place? Me and one of my other brothers, he's probably worth about $4 million probably. My other two brothers and sisters probably not close. Okay. So you guys have all done pretty well.

Do you guys have a great financial advisor that you meet with? maybe yearly to look at everything? Yeah, so I have a Dave Ramsey-approved person, and he just retired, so he turns me to another guy. So I just got with him at the beginning of this year. Oh, good. And so I just talked to him a couple weeks ago, and I told him I wanted to get together and talk about taking cash out just like we went on a cruise last year, and I go, okay, I've got to get all these gigs before I can go and pay for it. Right, right, right. Oh, well, I think the idea of you working and still having a passion for something is just good for you as a human being, right?

I still think there's like, you know, you still have this thing on the side. A reason to get up and shower is helpful. Yeah, that's great. So there's kind of the two ends of the spectrum here that you've got to think about. One is just the facts. That's why I asked about the financial advisor because sometimes when you actually see the numbers and see, okay, we can spend X amount extra per year because you're bringing home probably around what eight, nine grands a month between your. roughing, you know, those games and the pension and everything coming in. And so anything above that, you know, what could we in a safe way spend extra? And you can look at that number and say,

okay, great. And if you want to continue to spend that, that's fine. But what I would say, though, is I would, this is the emotional side. So you have the tactical, you have the plan of what you can spend. And then what I would say is you don't have to spend all of it, but you need to be spending something extra every month, Charlie. Because with money, you need to be giving some. You've done your savings. I tie. Yes. That's great.

Yes. So you do, yeah, you're giving, you're saving, and spending. Those are the three things that you need to be doing with money. And they all need to be balanced. And the spending is what's off for you. And so you kind of almost have to rebuild this habit of letting go of some money and not having this tight control that you have because, you know, it's wild because on one end of the spectrum, money can.

be such an idol for people that worship it and they spend it and there's like the vanity side right of just the scripture you just read george but then on the other end it almost becomes an idol because it has so much control over us out of this fear that something's going to happen and i'm not going to be okay and that fear it's not rational right you got 2.4 million dollars sitting there and so we don't want to be unwise with that but there needs to be some freedom in your life charlie and and right now the equation of The freedom to me is letting go with some and spending and enjoying it. And so is there's things that you can do that are fun with you and your wife and you're like, hey, or, you know, I don't know if you have grown kids or grandkids, but, you know, find something meaningful. I'm not saying you have to go buy a bunch of crap and just, like, have a bunch of stuff.

But if there's things you can do to enhance your life or to make things easier, if you guys need someone to come clean the house once a week, you know. Buying your time back is one of the best ways to spend your money. buying experiences with people you love. Dr. Arthur Brooks says one of the best things you can do with your money. So we do have three kids and 17 grandkids. Oh, wow. How fun. What a full life.

That's great. Well, when they become fourth graders, we take them on a 3,000-mile road trip. Oh, that's fun. Yes, yes. And we have one coming up this year. Destination is Yellowstone. We go White River wrapped in. We're going rodeos.

Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. But, yeah, and so I just got a, my wife tells me that, I just need to get out of that mode of saving. I had to go from a saver to a spender. Yes. And it's been a hard transition, even though when she wants to do something, I'll go, okay, I'll go get a couple gigs and you can pay for it. Right, right.

And so. What if you just cut the side hustle for six months and said I'm not going to do it and I'm going to spend money? Would that free you? And that's a hard, that's a hard thing because I'm in a leadership role. one of the side gigs. Oh, they need you now. Okay, man, you're running the show. And you enjoy it, right, Charlie, in general?

Well, this is my 50th year officiating. Whoa, that might be a world record. That's amazing. That's impressive. I don't know about that, which I appreciate your advice. And, you know, I do listen to you quite often. You talk about side gigs and delivering you and stuff like that. I would encourage you to tell people to look into officiating wrestling or officiating in general,

because I do make 30 to 50, 60 bucks an hour doing that. Oh, that is. Is it wrestling? Is that what you said? I do mostly wrestling. That's what I have 50 years and 25 and volleyball. Okay. And I pro baseball at one time also.

Wow. Good for you. Well, I would have a little dream date with your wife and, you know, buy the apps, buy the desserts, the stuff that makes you feel guilty and do it without guilt. And then have a little dream date where you go, hey, if we were to spend X amount of money this year, where would we divvy it all out? and then put it in the budget and go, hey, we decided, remember we pre-decided that we're going to send the money over here and we're going to buy this thing here. We're going to go on that trip here.

We're going to do it. So you sort of force yourself to flex that muscle and eventually you'll feel less guilty writing those checks and swiping that card and all of that. Yeah, because it's all about balance at this point. And you guys have done a fantastic job, Charlie. I mean, unbelievable. What careers did you and your wife have to accumulate $2.4 million of that work? My wife was a stay-at-home mom until our young. youngest went to, I think it was high school. So she did 16 years as a dental assistant. Yeah.

And then I was, I don't have a college degree or anything, but I was a computer engineer for IBM, IBM mainframe engineer for like 30 years. Okay. Good for you. That's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And one thing to do with that SmartVester Pro, Charlie, that I think will be helpful, is they can walk you through your current withdrawal rate of, hey, you're spending $50,000 a year out of this much of your nest egg.

That's a 1% spend. You can go up to three, four, five without ever running out of money. And they can show you the actual dollar amount of, hey, you could up it to 2% or 2. or 2.5 or 3 or 4, which is $100,000 and still never run out of money. I think some of those facts from a trusted investment advisor will free you to go, oh, you know what? we can loosen up. I don't have to take on nine more gigs. I can do it because I want to, not because I feel like I need punishment. That I need to. That's right. That's right. Well, well done, Charlie. You guys are a success story. Absolutely amazing. Good problem to have.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.