The Ramsey Show - Your Financial Progress Starts Now!

Starting point is 00:00:02 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, George Camel, Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Starting point is 00:00:33 The phone number is AAA 825-5-225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life, your mom. It's a free call. Some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Bob's in Chicago. Hey, Bob, what's up? Hi, Dave and George, how you doing?

Starting point is 00:00:51 Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. How can I help? So a few months back, my daughter and her then-fiancee approached my wife and me to discuss moving their wedding up by several months. We made all the plans, had a date picked, and they wanted to move that forward quite a bit. And we disagreed with them. We said, hey, we got a date, we got a venue, we got everything paid for,

Starting point is 00:01:10 everything's moving along. Let's keep it there. They didn't like that. They chose to then get married after about two weeks notice and in a different venue, different state. And we're just kind of wondering, is it right or wrong for us to ask them to reimburse us for the funds that we spent? We're out of pocket. These are non-refundable. They changed it all. And then you were out that money and they didn't care because it wasn't their money? Pretty much. That's the way it feels, yep. How much money are we talking? About $8,500. No, and here's why. I've gone through this three times with kids getting married and setting up wedding budgets and all that stuff. And the thing that I had to keep reminding everyone in my family, including me and my wife,

Starting point is 00:02:03 was it ain't our party. We just funded it, but it's not our party. So the, the problem, the The problem is it's not the $8,500. Your wife's feelings are deeply hurt. The whole family is pretty hurt because it was going to be a big family event, all the kids involved in it, and it was taken away. Did they like a lope here? Were you guys invited to this other wedding? We were invited with two weeks notice, so we scrambled, and we got ourselves there,

Starting point is 00:02:33 spent a fortune getting there, as we hadn't planned on it and short notice and all. But we did make it there. Where did you go? We went to Texas. It costs a fortune to go to Texas? Well, for us, it felt like quite a bit of money. We probably spent about $7,000 getting all the kids and everybody there. We've got a big family.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Oh, you paid for everybody else to go. Yes, sir. Did they pay for the new wedding? They didn't ask us for any money for it, although we had paid for the dress and some other stuff that they had bought already for the existing wedding. Yeah, I think everybody's mad and hurt, and you guys are looking for a way to hit back, and I wouldn't. I think it's a good idea to walk away and just go. This is just, this didn't go the way I wanted to. Nobody's happy, except the little bride and groom, they're happy.

Starting point is 00:03:31 And this is not how we want to do it. And the next time I get ready to interact with them on something that involves money or planning or something, I'll keep this in mind. but I'm not going to hit back. No, I would not. That's just father and in-law advice. That's not financial advice. Well, I do appreciate that. It's a complicated situation for sure, and it's certainly, like you said,

Starting point is 00:03:58 there's emotions wrapped up in it that make us a little bitter. If it's at my house, it's my wife that's royally pissed about this, if it was a mind. I would be like, ah, this is inconvenient. You guys are rude. You're being children, but oh, well, whatever. You know, you want to get married and that's good. So you're married. And here we go. And this is in, I mean, I would have been whatever, but at our house, it would have been, you know, Bradzilla and her mother. And so that's what we would have had to deal with here. So, and that's what happened here. I don't think they're going to pay you back. And I think it's just going to become a low contact or no contact relationship. So the

Starting point is 00:04:38 question is, is it worth souring this whole thing over eight grand? It's already soured over eight grand. And so it's just going to make it worse. I just can't imagine where this gets better. I just wouldn't throw this down. I just let a ride and move on. Twenty years from now, it's just be a not funny memory. That's what it'll be 20 years from now. No one, no one, I'm still not laughing 20 years later. I'm still, don't bring it up, okay? But I got a couple of those in my life. I got stuff that 20 years ago happened. Things everybody knows. Let's just not talk about it. I don't, you know, I've got PTSD from COVID. Don't bring it up, you know.

Starting point is 00:05:10 It's just like, it's not funny. There's still not funny. You mask people, you're still not funny. And so all that stuff, you know, and all that. It's okay. We'll just keep moving. We're all good. We're all here on the same planet.

Starting point is 00:05:21 Life's good. Yeah. Ryan's in Reno. Hey, Ryan, what's up in your world? Howdy, Dave? Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. How can we help?

Starting point is 00:05:31 Yeah, I have a quick question. So I rent an apartment. I pay about $50. $1,500 a month. My lease is up in June, but in part of the lease agreement, I have to give notice two months in advance. And basically, my question is, the market rate for my unit is down $100 from when I originally leased the apartment three years ago. You mean that apartment complex is currently leasing a similar unit for $100 less? Correct. So my question is, should I? commit to a new lease for a year and keep paying when I'm paying?

Starting point is 00:06:09 No. Or should I go month to month and go at the current market rate, which would be $100 less? Well, how long are you going to stay there? Well, now that's another good question. I mean, I'm planning to stay at least another six months, but they don't do six-month leases. Well, then you're month-to-month, aren't you? So you're saying you go month-to-month-month? You get flexibility and $100 less.

Starting point is 00:06:35 your month to month. So that's what I'm saying. And they couldn't tell me when I asked the manager, I was like, if I go month to month, would it be what you guys are currently selling for or what I'm currently paying? It will be or I'm leaving. Yeah, you've got some leverage here. Yeah, I can leave. That's another option.

Starting point is 00:06:56 That is true. Yeah. But it's just a hassle to move everything and go somewhere else. It's not that big a hassle. It's a one-bedroom apartment. It's your buddy's in a six-pack of beer and a pickup truck. that's good that's good okay it's not that big a deal don't don't make us into something it ain't i mean i would go in there and go guys i'm going to go ahead and give you my notice now for june i'm

Starting point is 00:07:17 not going to be here i'm going to go to month to month and i'm only going to go to month if you give me the price that you put up your street price and otherwise i'm just going to leave so what do y'all want to do right what do you all want to do doesn't make sense for me to pay more exactly i'm i'm paying more than some dude walks in off the street and i'm already in the thing. So, you know, I mean, just sit down and talk to manager, have a calm, nice, pleasant conversation. You don't have to be as rude as I'm being, but, you know, you're just making the point that are obvious. But let the message be known. We're going to month to month, and we're going at the $100 less rate, or we're going somewhere else. And if they're jerks

Starting point is 00:07:55 about it, that's a sign you should not be staying there. Yeah, yeah. And it's just an apartment, man. You know, it's not a wedding. That's true. You didn't, you didn't move the wedding. You didn't move the wedding up and cost somebody money. It wasn't $8,500 worth. No, it was $100. But there's a lot of incompetent sort of like the front desk person who can't do anything. And so you kind of have to go above that to someone who can make those decisions and change the lease. Because some people go, it's the policy.

Starting point is 00:08:20 Can't do anything. You know, I think we get it in writing. For sure. Basically, powerless people have the power to say no only. And you go, well, I guess they said no. No, go beyond that. No, no. We're not through yet.

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Starting point is 00:10:46 We've got to sell something that's got dead on it. What do you owe on your cars? So I made a couple of bad decisions in the last year. 123,000 of this bet has just, I've just accumulated in the last year. On what? Vehicle. So I had about, I had a couple of bad decisions that I saw. A year ago, I was in a good financial space.

Starting point is 00:11:10 and I had a rental property that needed some work, and I took out a $40,000 key lock so that I could do that work on that property. I also bought a new vehicle, well, a new-to-me vehicle of 2023, and I owe $28,000 on that. Okay. And what's your household income? And then, so my household income has changed.

Starting point is 00:11:39 In the last six months, I lost my dad, I lost my job, and I separated with my husband. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. So my income is around $75,000. I say you lost your job, got a new job. Good. Okay. Yes.

Starting point is 00:11:59 And how long have you been married? 15 years. I'm so sorry. Okay. Are you all attempting counseling, or is this going to end in divorce? It is going to end in divorce. Okay. I was going to counseling individually for about five months.

Starting point is 00:12:20 I stopped that about four months ago when I got laid off from my job because I just couldn't afford. Okay, so the rental property is going to end up on you in the divorce? It is going to be where it's where I'm living now. I moved into the rental property last month. and my husband kept the house that we were in. Okay. All right. And have you all started talking about how things split up on all this?

Starting point is 00:12:54 Basically, I get my car and my dad. I get this house and it's payments and heatative. So the 123 is all yours? Correct. Okay. But that's the 40 on the he lock on the house. you moved out of? No, the house I moved into.

Starting point is 00:13:15 It has a helic on it. Correct. Okay, what's the first mortgage on? My mortgage is 155. Okay. And the he lock is 40. So you owe 195 and the house is worth what? 275.

Starting point is 00:13:29 Okay. All right. And you make 75 and what other debts have we got then? Is the 40 and the 123? Yes. Okay. So 40 and 28 is 68. What's the rest of the 123?

Starting point is 00:13:43 I have 54,000 in consumer credit card debt that I have racked up in the last. Well, 20,000 of it was prior, prior to this other financial situation. I, you know, I spent 15,000 on a dream vacation before my family split up. and I was in a financial position then that it wasn't such a real. What were you making before? So to get my husband and I together. No, what were you making at your other job before you made 75? 80, 85.

Starting point is 00:14:27 So you didn't take much of a pay cut? What does he make? No. 110. Do you have children? Yes, I have three children. What ages? 19, 17, and 14.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Oh, my gosh. Okay. All right. So my... Let's just put a bracket around this. Let's put a bracket around this on the math part. Okay. There's a lot of emotion and a lot of hurt and a lot of broken hearts.

Starting point is 00:14:57 But the math is you make $75,000 a year. You have a $28,000 car. And you have a house you can't afford. And a car you can't afford. I could afford the house on the car if I didn't have. have the credit card debt, but I can't get out of the credit card debt. No, you really can't. The car is stupid, and so was the vacation. You've got to start calling stuff what it is, okay? I agree. They were stupid. I'd purchase them before. I know. I knew that this was going to be. But to

Starting point is 00:15:26 clean up the mess, right now, you can't defend it then. I can afford the car is not something that should ever come out of your mouth. You have a $30,000 car. You make $75,000 a year. No. The problem with the car is I owe $28,000 on it, and the value is only $27. So? I can't even sell it and get out for a month. You can. You come up with $1,000. Yeah, you sell it.

Starting point is 00:15:49 Don't pay the credit cards for two months to sell the car and get a $2,000 car. Tadda, we just got rid of it. What is the payment on the stupid thing? $1,200. $6.53. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:02 I mean, it's killing you. You told us you didn't have margin. So the thing, because you've been through this tremendous heartbreak, you've given yourself permission to do things you shouldn't have done. Go on a vacation and buy a car and run up credit cards. Okay. So we have to say we have to undo as much of that as we can undo. What do you do for a living? I have three jobs.

Starting point is 00:16:30 My main force of income, I negotiate. and I bring in about $42,000 at that. My secondary income is real estate, and I bring in about $25,000 in that. Selling real estate, selling residential real estate? Yes, sir. Okay. How long have you been doing that? Eight years.

Starting point is 00:16:53 Okay. So it's time to get good at it now. You need to go make $150,000 selling houses. I would love to. I just don't know how. Yeah, your raise is effective when you are. I mean, yeah, you do. You've been around people that make that kind of money selling real estate.

Starting point is 00:17:10 You've been doing this eight years. You've seen top performers. What do they do that you don't do? So I specialize in our same home buyers and... Not anymore. Now you specialize in money. I specialize in selling houses for money. That's what I specialize in now.

Starting point is 00:17:28 You're not in a position to be niche. You've got to go make money. And I want you to go make $150,000,000 a year selling a bazillion freaking houses. Instead of selling a house every other month, I want yourself five a week. You've been doing it part-time. So imagine if you went all in on the same. This is you are your Miss Real Estate girl with the glamour shot on her business card. The whole thing.

Starting point is 00:17:50 You got to do something to get your income up. How do I come up with the extra hours to put into it when I, you know, my other day job is 8 to 4. And then I just picked up a bartending job on Friday and Saturday evening. I think the bartending went away and you're going to be in the real estate business. Okay. And, you know, and I'm going to start, I'm going to get away from that other day job as fast as I can because you can't pay squat, $40,000 a year. But, boo, boo, boo, boo. So we've got to get your income up.

Starting point is 00:18:20 We've got to think differently about these decisions that got us here so that we don't even ever say out loud again that there was a good reason for these things. They just were happening during a broken heart time and I made bad decisions. And you said that early on and then you went back and said, yeah, but I need the good. car and the car's bull crap the car's it's awful get rid of it it represents a bunch of things about you that you don't like i want rid of it i want it out of my driveway i don't want to look at this thing anymore i want to get rid of it and uh and i'm going to get in gear and start selling houses like a crazy person and that's a good news because you you actually have been around the business enough you know go get a hold of two or three of the top performers and say teach me what you do let me join

Starting point is 00:19:03 your team and help you do with do what you do i got to make more money and i'm getting ready to put it in gear like I've never put it in gear in my entire life. This is a fresh start for old Sarah. And it's a clean whiteboard. Brand new year. Grace, mercy. Time to start over. And then you chop up the credit cards. So first thing you do is you pay food. The second thing you do is you pay lights and water. Third thing you do is you pay the two house payments. Fourth thing you do is you pay the stupid car payment until you get rid of a stupid car. And until you do that, you don't pay anybody, anything. So the credit cards are way down the list. They don't get paid nothing right now. Nothing. My credit. You don't need credit. You're broke. Getting married changes something in you.

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Starting point is 00:21:05 serious about being an adult, do this today. Go to Mama Bearlegalforms.com, use the promo code Ramsey and save 20% on your will. That's MamaBearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If private student loan default has knocked you off track. Well, this is how you reset. Why Refi works with borrowers. Other lenders won't help. And they help you refinance a defaulted private student loan with a low fixed rate. So you can get back on a plan and move forward. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Alyssa in Vermont. I'm in my late 20s and trying to be more organized

Starting point is 00:22:14 regarding my finances. Do you think using AI for things like tracking spending and setting budgets is a smart and practical approach or should people stick to more traditional methods? Interesting. I have seen some videos online of people using AI to try to help them kind of get control of their money, but it really does a terrible job when it comes to actually tracking your actual spending because it can't pull in your transactions. It doesn't know your life. Here's the thing. AI is only as effective as the data set that you feed it. And so if it doesn't have the data, it can't crunch it. And so you have to, you have to build the budget anyway for it to know what to do or it's clueless. It doesn't know your actual expenses. It can't read your mind. It's not a spiritual thing.

Starting point is 00:23:02 It's just you feed it at a data set and it crunches it. That's all it is. And so like we built Ask Ramsey. You go to our website at Ramsey's Solutions.com and you can ask Ramsey. Any question you wanted to on this show, but you couldn't get through on the show, okay? So what is the, and it's an AI tool. We built it. It's, no one else has touched it, but Ramsey. What's in the data set? Five years of the calls from this show and the answers we gave are dumped into the data set. All the financial peace university videos are dumped in the data set. All the books that the personalities and I have written are dumped into the data set. And so it's a pure data set, so it's going to give you an actual Ramsey answer to a money question. It's not going to

Starting point is 00:23:48 give you an answer of anything else. Hadn't got anything to do with Reddit? Hadn't anything to do with a bunch of crap on the internet? There's no, there's no trash in the data set. And that's the problem, Alyssa, with trying to do what you're doing. Because personal finance, the key to fixing personal finance is understanding that personal finance is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge. AI can help you with the head knowledge, but you still got to deal with a person in your mirror. And when you actually take the every dollar budgeting app and lay out and put your budget together, your brain is affecting that and you're making a commitment to you that this is how much I'm going to spend on groceries.

Starting point is 00:24:26 This is how much I'm going to spend on eating out, which is not at all I'm getting out of debt. This is how much I'm going to do whatever with. And you've made a commitment to you. That's right. And so you've began just by the very act of you putting. the number into the every dollar app, you have began to modify your own behavior. AI can't do that for you. Now, once you've got all the data in there, and let's say you've been in every dollar

Starting point is 00:24:51 for two years, are we going to have some AI in the background helping you manipulate your data? Yes. Not yet, but we will have by the time you get there. Yeah. And so, because that's a good use of AI. Because we actually know your goals. We can help steer you, whereas AI is going to be a little more.

Starting point is 00:25:08 It doesn't read your mind. It's going to be a little more agnostic. Yeah, I don't want, you don't want a budgeting tool of any kind that auto-populates the numbers in the sense of, in the sense of it just makes up a number and drops it in there. Because you need to look at it and say, for me, Alyssa, in Vermont, this is what I need to spend on rent. It doesn't need to auto-populate your rent. And when you actually type it into every dollar, you need to go, holy crap, my rent's really high. or, holy crap, I got a really good deal, renting this garage apartment out back from this old lady's house.

Starting point is 00:25:43 You know, I got a deal. And your brain is starting to verify your numbers and your behaviors at that point. And so it's not going to help you spend less on DoorDash. After you've gotten control and have run a budget for many years and AI could access that data, it could be really helpful. But when you're starting, I'm more concerned that you learn to control you than you do math right. Yeah. You know your spending habits. You know what's going on. So I would start with every dollar for sure.

Starting point is 00:26:12 Yeah. Yeah. And if you're working the baby steps, it's going to prompt you, again, like the Ask Ramsey thing, it's going to prompt you what we would tell you to do. So if you wonder what George Camel would say to do, every dollar is going to be telling you right then. When you put that down, it's going to go, hey, by the way, it looks like you're missing this.

Starting point is 00:26:28 Or you're spending a lot over here. Yeah. What if you cut that back to save this much or month? It looks like you're getting a tax refund. You want to adjust that W2. You know, it looks like you're doing this. and you may not want to do that. It looks like you got the, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:39 and we're going to give you some Ramsey input as you're building your budget out. So it's not agnostic. It's got Ramsey flavor. It's not quite as sassy as I want it to be. I want it to be smart aleck. We'll dial it up. Digital smart Alex's hard to get going.

Starting point is 00:26:51 But if I ever figure out how to do it, I'm going to make a lot of money because digital smart aleck's cool. People have been asking for the Dave function and ask Ramsey where it just spits out the Dave response. It's just like, stop doing stupid stuff. Don't do stupid stuff button. It starts with that's a stupid question, but here's the answer. That would be fun.

Starting point is 00:27:07 I would like that. Dave, how do I build my credit? None of that's there. None of that's there. And they're not going to actually do it, even though in my dreams I think it's funny. But yeah. So check out every dollar for free. Download it in the app store.

Starting point is 00:27:19 And always keep in mind that when you are doing anything that doesn't prompt your brain to make a measurement on your budgeting stuff, you're probably off track. Because you need to be making measurements as you go along. And when you're spending money, in marketing, we call that friction. If when you spend money, you feel it, that's your brain telling you. I just spent money. But if you're just like, Apple Pay, and I have no idea. What'd you pay for that? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:27:48 It's on Apple Pay. I just wave my phone and crap jumped in my basket, you know. And it's like, that drives me crazy. No friction at all, right? But, you know, submit, you know, prime, prime, prime, prime, prime, prime, prime, Now it's on auto. 18 cases of toilet paper on the front porch. You forgot you had a subscription to it and it just shows up.

Starting point is 00:28:04 It should, yeah. Oh, yeah. to your stupidity. Yeah, that's it. Regular, regular diet of it. But yeah, that's the thing. You want stuff that tells you when you're off. Here's an example of that. Okay, while we've gone on this, it's good, it's a good subject. When you actually spend green cash with president's faces on them, there have been studies done that shows that it activates the pain centers of the brain. So like you get ready to buy groceries and you slide two Uncle Benjamin's across to the cashier, your brain goes, ouch.

Starting point is 00:28:42 When you wave Apple pay, your brain doesn't know anything happen. It doesn't feel it because there's no recognition. But there's something about our brains going, I just freaking spent money. When you use a debit card and you know it's coming out of your checking account right then versus a credit card that someday I'll pay, I hope I pay. it this month, but I might someday pay it. Right? Bull crap.

Starting point is 00:29:06 There's a difference between the debit card, the credit card. They look just like visually, but your brain is going, you just spent money. It's using your money now. You better have some money in that account when you're using your debit card. When you're using a credit card, you're like, oh, I'll deal with this later. You know, maybe. Problem for future me to deal with. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Using someone else's money. It sucks to be future me. But yeah. But even the debit card doesn't activate the pain center is like cash does. Yeah. If you want to start spending less money, start spending more cash. Go to the ATM. You'll limit your spending because you go, crap, those groceries were expensive.

Starting point is 00:29:44 Well, now it's on trend. You did the cash envelope system 30 years ago, and now the Gen Zers are calling it cash stuffing. They make videos of them stuffing the envelopes with the exact amount of cash, which it's a great trend. I'm glad it's coming back, but they're acting like they invented it. I didn't invent it either. The first time it came up is the 1930s. Wow. Because you got paid on Friday in cash in an envelope.

Starting point is 00:30:07 And you walked out with your paycheck and you broke it up, put a little in a grocery envelope, a little bit in the rent envelope, a little bit in this. And people have sent me ledgers that their grandmother and their great-grandmother kept with the envelopes in the back of them from the 1920s and 30s. And they used to, it was everything was 100% cash. I mean, the number of people that wrote checks. You had to budget. If you wrote a check in the 1930s, you were rich.

Starting point is 00:30:30 Rich people. I mean, nobody about rich people. Only the elite had access to checks. There certainly was no credit cards because there was no credit cards until the late 1950s up into the 60s. And in the 70s is when the credit card actually took off. So, you know, you go back. So, yeah, the Gen Ziers didn't invent it, but I didn't either. We actually sell an envelope system in the store.

Starting point is 00:30:49 We still got it. Rachel's wallet has a built-in envelope system. That's a fancier version. Looks better. Yeah. For the latest. That's what rich people do, the Rachel envelope. Future rich people.

Starting point is 00:30:58 It's a good history lesson, Dave. Thanks for walking us down there. Well, it's good. It's good to remember that you're managing behavior, you're not managing numbers. Running a business is hard work. You're the CEO, the accountant, and the sales team. You don't have time to moonlight as your own benefits department. That's where health trust financial helps. In fact, health insurance is one of the biggest and most confusing line items in your budget. And most of you are overpaying because you're stuck figuring. it out alone. You don't have time to figure out all the fine print about networks and deductibles. My friends at Health Trust Financial have been helping Ramsey listeners for over 20 years.

Starting point is 00:32:00 Their focus is simplifying health insurance and serving people with empathy. No pressure, no games. They give you clear, unbiased advice that fits your life and your budget. Most of their clients save hundreds of dollars every month. That's real. money you can put back in your business or into the baby steps. So stop wasting your time, your energy, and your money. You run the business. Let Health Trust Financial handle finding the right health insurance. Go to health trustfinancial.com today. That's health trustfinancial.com. Chelsea is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi, Chelsea. How are you? Hi, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. I was just calling me because I'm looking

Starting point is 00:33:04 for some advice on how I can get my husband to be a little bit more comfortable, how I could encourage him to be more comfortable spending money. He tends to put a big value behind everything that we spend on, as if it's wasteful and that sort of thing. We just... He's cheap. He's very cheap. Yeah, my wife is too. For example, we went, I wanted a five guys burger for dinner one night, and he, you know, joyfully went out and got it for me, and he comes back with a bag from there and a bag from Burger King. And I asked him, who got Burger King? You know, we have two young kids, so I thought that maybe.

Starting point is 00:33:45 And he said, no, the burger at five guys is $18. So he got me a burger there and got himself Burger King. Even though we never were not big Burger King people. He doesn't like Burger King. It's just cheaper. And so he chose. He likes the price, not the taste. Yes.

Starting point is 00:33:59 Got it. That's hilarious. But at least he got you five guys. He burned $18 worth of gas driving across town to Burger King. Yes, yeah. We have a six-month-old, and I preheated the oven to start dinner, and I went in to feed the baby and put him down, and I come out to the oven being turned off,

Starting point is 00:34:18 and he just thought it was just wasteful to leave the oven on, and I was like, well, it was preheating, and he's like, well, the electric bill will go up if we just leave the oven on. That's called preheating, dufus. Yeah. Okay. Wow. It sounds like he must have had a childhood where dad and mom were like, hey, it's tight.

Starting point is 00:34:37 We've got to save money anywhere we can. Yeah, when was he wounded? He did have some experiences as a kid. You know, it was like brand new dirt bikes one day and then, you know, a Hawaii vacation and then suddenly they can't afford the vacation they're on. And they'd have to go to grocery store. And now they're buying food. They can't afford to be there.

Starting point is 00:34:56 You know, we learned from mistakes that his dad had made that. How old is your husband? He's 30. And you guys have been married 10 years? Yep, this year. Okay. Yeah. And so we have, well, I think it starts, it starts with saying, okay, being frugal and wise with money is the hallmark of wealthy people.

Starting point is 00:35:21 Wealthy people are careful with their money. But the Burger King and the preheating the oven is just weird. That's not careful. That's just strange. Okay. So we start with a conversation with you have a natural tendency that's going to cause our family to be very successful. And that is you're going to watch and be careful with money. The downside is that you're never going to be able to enjoy it.

Starting point is 00:35:46 And you're never going to have the ultimate joy of it, which the most fun you'll ever have with money is when you give it away. Generosity. Generosity. When you put a set of tires on a single mom. car and she's working three jobs and it costs you a thousand dollars that's the most fun you ever have in your life when when you leave a three hundred dollar tip at thanksgiving for the pregnant waffle house waitress that's the most fun you'll ever have with money in your life and you can't do that in the mindset that he's in he can't do that his brain won't let him do that

Starting point is 00:36:21 well and so there he he actually is a very generous giver i i i don't know he's not no he's not Because he can't even give to himself. He can't even leave the oven on. That's true. Okay. So no, he's not. I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I think he's a great guy.

Starting point is 00:36:40 I think he just has, if I were coaching him, if he were to call me, I would just say, you need to have some fun. And you need to have some fun. Because this guy is never going to be irresponsible. It's impossible. He's never going to impulse a Porsche. No. It's absolutely not. His brain would explode.

Starting point is 00:37:00 He just can't do it. He couldn't do it. And I don't want him to. So if I get this guy feeling like he's gone wild, now he's just normal. Yeah. Now he's just a regular human now. Because, I mean, he's just wired up about this. So I want him to enjoy money.

Starting point is 00:37:17 There's three things you can do with money. You can invest it for the future, being careful and frugal. You can enjoy it and you can give it to others. That's the only three things you can do with it. And you should be doing all three if you're healthy spiritually, if you're healthy emotionally and relationally. And so, honey, I want us to enjoy the money. I don't want us to be irresponsible.

Starting point is 00:37:41 I'm so happy you're here. I'm always going to be provided for. We're always going to have money because you are going to make sure of it. I'm never going to worry about money because I have you. And you're going to learn to have fun because you have me. I'm going to help you have fun. I'm guessing it's partially why he married you. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:02 I'm the one that plans the trips and the extra things that we're doing and stuff. But, I mean, you're right. He is responsible. I feel like I'm responsible too in the sense, but I feel like there's definitely, I'm trying to try out a way of... I'm not saying you're irresponsible. I'm just saying he's hyper responsible. He is very hyper responsible.

Starting point is 00:38:20 I mean, if I bought a name brand ketchup, you know, he's like, what, did we win the lottery? You know, and I'm like, Okay. Well, you know... Next time you say that, I'm going to hit you with a ketchup. I'm going to smack you across the forehead with a ketchup bottle. Yeah. I'm serious. That's so silly. That's so silly.

Starting point is 00:38:37 Do you guys do a monthly budget? Do you actually sit down and look at the numbers? Yes. We use every dollar. And there's money left over at the end of the month, right? Oh, yes. Where does that all go? Just two investments. I mean, we invest about 20% of our income. We make about $250K a year. And how much are you have in your nest stick?

Starting point is 00:38:59 Our net worth is about 800,000. I see, you're about to be millionaires and you're 30 years old. See, I told you the guys are great guy. I mean, what he's doing is working, but he really has got to dial this back about 5%. The ketchup bottle thing and the cut in the oven off thing and the Burger King thing, that's just over in the weird column, y'all. I mean, that's just, that's strange, okay? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:23 And so quit being strange. I tell him to go to therapy, but I assume. him he won't pay for it. So that's kind of a conundrum there. You might have to tell him it's free. The first one's free. You may be able to see a counselor at our first. Go have coffee with a friend, but I'd have to buy the coffee.

Starting point is 00:39:39 Too frugal for his own good. No, seriously, it's, and I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she talks about family of origin. And it's one of the things that causes people to make the decisions we make in our upbringing. And Rachel and Winston are a little bit like y'all. Winston's the tighter, more conservative one, and Rachel's the fun girl. Right? And Winston really needs Rachel because he wouldn't be any fun without Rachel.

Starting point is 00:40:08 And Rachel really needs Winston because he's super responsible and they've got a great net worth and they do a great job managing money. And she teaches him how to have fun. He teaches her how to save money. I mean, this is an ongoing thing. They've been married 12 years. I mean, this is how they do it. And that's the same with Sharon. It's the dance.

Starting point is 00:40:26 Sharon's the saver. I'm the spender. And, you know. I'm the frugal one in our house. So I relate, but I don't go this far. I don't go this far if Whitney comes home with the Heinz ketchup instead of the, you know, generic brand. But left my own devices. Unless it was Kirkland.

Starting point is 00:40:41 I at least try to go, I find what's on sale. And that's kind of how I shop. Okay. But if Whitney goes out shopping, I don't expect her to live by my standards. Your weirdness. Exactly. I mean, your frugality. But you know what I did is I forced myself.

Starting point is 00:40:55 to spend money in the budget. So I have George fund money. Oh, you know what, that's a good idea. That's why I asked about the budget. Yeah, we need to put a fund category for boy child in there and let him go have some fun. You have to spend some money on you. Otherwise, I did that. I did that and when we first started with Sharon because we had clothing envelopes. We're talking about the envelopes a while ago. And she spent it all on the kids clothes. She said, well, I don't need anything. I don't need anything. I'll just make something out of the drapes. You know, and I'm like, like, what are you, Charlotte O'Hara? I mean, seriously. And so I had to separate the envelopes. We had Sharon's clothing.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Yep. Kids clothing. And you can't spend anything in that envelope except what the envelope says. So you have to spend this on you. And she's gotten over that, by the way. Now she's very comfortable. She's particularly shoes, yeah. But I mean, yeah, she's very comfortable buying.

Starting point is 00:41:44 Isn't this cute? Yeah, that just costs me. Now she's a shoe museum. It's so cute. Yeah. It's unbelievable how cute that is. I'm proud of you guys, Dave. That's progress.

Starting point is 00:41:52 Well, I mean, that's only 40 years we've been working on it. so we eventually get there. But yeah, make him have a category with his name on it, and he has to spend it on something fun. And something is irresponsible and wild and crazy. He needs a hobby. And give him $30 a month to do that. Yeah, make him spend some money on a hobby,

Starting point is 00:42:08 and he'll go, gosh, this is actually fun. And he'll start to unwind a little bit from the tightwad syndrome. That's a good idea, George. That's better than all the other blabbing I did in the whole call. I'm a man of brevity. Yeah. Well, you got right to it. I can tell you that.

Starting point is 00:42:41 Hey, guys, George here. listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, I don't know where my money goes. It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money. Like Fairwind's Credit Union. They're not going to fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency. fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable, and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your smart bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and get the Ramsey BWIRWIRD debit card to go along with it. That's fairwins.org slash Ramsey, insured by the

Starting point is 00:43:37 NCUA. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Daniel is on the line in Salt Lake City. Hi, Daniel. How are you? Hey, fellas. How are we doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help? Got divorced about two years ago. Well, separated two years ago, finalized a year ago. There was effectively starting over financially. Pretty much lost all the equity in the house. And I'm 42. I've learned a lot of the basics on, I've actually learned finance within that point.

Starting point is 00:44:42 I actually understand money now, but it just feels like I'm too late. It feels like I'm too far behind. And I'll never catch up to actually retire at a decent age with my back still straight. Yeah. You said you're 40, right? 42. 42. Got divorced at 40.

Starting point is 00:45:00 Yeah, and your income is what, sir? Right now it's about $85,000. Okay. All right. And so the house and a bunch of the stuff went away. Did you end up with debt also, or are you debt free but have nothing? Are you even? Debt free, but have nothing.

Starting point is 00:45:23 Okay. You have anything in a 401K from before? Yes, but it's, well, so. Well, from before, no. It all went to her. Well, yes and no. It's not like she kept it. The context is one of the main reasons we divorced was she racked up a lot of debt behind my back.

Starting point is 00:45:45 Oh, okay. All right. And so you cleaned out the 401K to pay that, so you got nothing? I've never formally had one because I worked, I worked construction my whole life. And I worked for smaller companies. I never offered a retirement. Okay, all right. I'm just trying to catch up.

Starting point is 00:46:01 So you literally have no debt, but you're renting a house or an apartment? Yes, correct. And you have no debt on your car? Correct. I mean, I did that smart. I got a 2010 Toyota Tundra. I just rolled over 251,000 miles, never broken. I love it.

Starting point is 00:46:21 I car will go another 250. That's a great car. Yes, sir. Okay. And you're working in construction, so that's perfect. truck for it. Absolutely. Well, I've taken it, I've taken a promotion. I'm now in the management side rather than the field install. Okay. All right. Well, here's the thing. The biggest thing you have to overcome

Starting point is 00:46:42 is not the mathematical challenge of being okay by age 65, because that's a laydown. You definitely are going to be fine. You're going to be a multimillionaire. We could show you how to have a million bucks in a nest egg by then. But easy, maybe two, okay? But the biggest thing you've got to overcome is two things. How long were you married? Well, we were together for 21 years, married for 14. Yeah. Okay. So you're grieving a death, a broken heart, a relationship that died after 21 years. And with that goes a broken heart, it goes anger, it goes loss of confidence in myself, because I let this go on longer than I should have, the part you played in it that you just kind of turned a blind eye and then finally you didn't and all that crap. If you were just starting fresh without any scars on your heart

Starting point is 00:47:41 and you were just 18 years old and all smiles, we could just turn you loose on the world making $85,000 and you'd go have a bunch of money pretty quick. But you've got to overcome the lack of confidence in yourself and quit looking in the rearview mirror. It's smaller than the wind shield, that's called grace, start looking forward instead of backwards so much. I don't learn a few lessons that I didn't, that I did wrong, but I want to not do those again. But that's all I got from the past. The rest of the past is just gone. It's past. It's over. Let's go forward and say, okay, because George, 15% of 85,000. Did you run that? I ran the numbers for him here. From 42 to 67, you'd be investing a little over $1,000 a month. If you follow our plan,

Starting point is 00:48:23 15% of your household income, you'd have $1.4 million. And that's at $2,000. 10%. If you get 11 or 12, you're talking 16, 17, 1,8, and that's if you never going to raise. I think you're going to have $2 million or more at 65. If you do what we teach and you follow it. So you're going to live on a written budget. You're not going to borrow money. You're going to have an emergency fund. And you're going to put 15% of your income, whatever you make, the rest of your life, away into good retirements and good growth stock mutual funds. Get online. Go to ramsysolutions.com. Find the smartvestor pro in your area that we have vetted. and that we trust and that does stuff the way we teach, and they'll sit down and go, okay, your company has a 401K,

Starting point is 00:49:03 you can do this, or it doesn't, and you can do that, and you can do this, and you can do this, and you need to be putting aside in your case right around $1,000 a month. That's about $15,000 a year, I mean, about 15% of your income. And if you never get a raise in the next 30 years, which would officially make you a loser, okay? If you never get a raise, you're still going to have over a million and a half dollars. That's with no employer match your whole life in a retirement account.

Starting point is 00:49:30 If there's match and you get raises, it's going to be more than that. But you're going to have to do this as methodical. It's just every stinking month, $1,000 goes into something. And I don't know what your mix is, what you're going to be able to put it in. But we're going to put it into Roth 401Ks with a match first, and then we're going to put it into anything with a match second. And then we're going to put it into Roth IRAs and all in good growth stock mutual funds. and you're going to have serious money.

Starting point is 00:49:58 And stay out of debt so that you can do that. And when you start dating again someday, and he's like, uh-uh, well, you will. But once you get past this a little bit, you know, you're looking for someone that wants to join you in this wealth-building venture, not suck the marrow out of your bones. And so you're, you know, because you can't make enough money when someone's sucking the marrow out of your bones to end up with anything but broken even at 42,

Starting point is 00:50:29 which is where you are. So you're fine. You can become wealthy. And you're going to have a lot of money if you just simply follow this plan. But the biggest impediment you have today is a broken heart and confidence that it can be done. Because you're sitting there saying, I don't know if it's too late. You're a 42. You're not even close to too late.

Starting point is 00:50:53 If you call me up in your 72, we'll have this discussion. But you're 42. You've got decades to make the truth. What's happening, he's comparing his 42-year-old self to his 39-year-old self who had a bunch of money. But his life was imploding. It sounds like it's been ongoing. But whatever is 34-year-old self, yeah. What I had and now I don't and now it feels like I'm behind.

Starting point is 00:51:14 Exactly. That's fair, too. You'll hear callers on the show who are in crippling debt at your age, who still have a mountain to climb cleaning this mess up. And you're actually in a good spot. Yeah, you're all things can. You have a great income. You don't have to talk anybody into this. It's just you.

Starting point is 00:51:27 The guy in your mirror is the only one you got to talk into it. That's the only one that can mess it up. That's very, that's a lot easier than the way you've been living. You've been trying to push the rock up a hill by yourself. And man, so yeah, you're going to be fine. So you hang on. We're going to get you set up with every dollar. And I'm going to send you a copy of the book that started the whole thing, the total money makeover with the baby steps and show you exactly what to do next, what to do next.

Starting point is 00:51:52 I want you to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, but you're going to do that in just a few months. And then you're going to kick in on this 15% of your income, and you're going to retire with anywhere from $2 to $3 million at age 65 to age 70, somewhere in there. That's where you should land. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped, and you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window, but you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey Way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind in a wild market.

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Starting point is 00:54:20 Hey, Art, how are you? Hey, Dave, hey, George. How are you doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help? So I got a question. I'm calling to find out if our plan is possible. My fiancé and I want to retire within the next five to seven years.

Starting point is 00:54:41 I'm 42. She's 45. We'd like to retire early. What are you going to do with the rest of your life? Travel. we like to travel. We do a lot of travel in now, and that's the plan. We have an RV now.

Starting point is 00:55:02 You know, that's... So for 40 years, as long as you've already been alive, you're going to travel. I like to travel, too, but my God, son, you're going to do nothing for the next 30 years but travel? Until we get bored of traveling. Okay, I can't... I don't recommend that as a life decision. I don't think that's going to make you as happy as you think it is.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Now, if you want to travel a lot while you have something that you actually do that contributes to your life and contributes to things, that's fine too. But I wouldn't do nothing but travel unless you said I'm going to do that for two years or something like that. That's fine. But to have that to be your only plan for 30 years is pretty shallow. And I can't recommend that. I don't think it's going to make you as happy as you think it is.

Starting point is 00:55:55 That I'm just going to tell you. Anyway, let's answer your question anyway about your numbers. So your fiancé, when are you getting married? That's probably within the next year. Okay. Got that tacked down, not at all. Okay. And how much do you have saved?

Starting point is 00:56:18 So I have 45,000 in my 401. I've got 10,000 in a high-yield savings, 10,000 in a brokerage account. I've got $50,000 in cash. I've got a rental property that's paid off. Right now I only have about $45,000 in debt. What does the rental property produce? $1,500 a month. Man, you're going to be on beans and rice.

Starting point is 00:56:48 You're not retiring in five years. You're going to live on $1,500. You're going to travel on $1,500 a month. So, no. I mean, I plan on. obviously contributing more to it in the next five to seven years. Yeah, like five or six hundred grand? What do you make?

Starting point is 00:57:13 Together we make almost $200,000. Okay. All right. If you want to save $100,000 a year for the next five years between the two of you, and you get very specific on your marriage date so that you can do that safely without putting either one of you at risk, $100,000 a year. be 500,000 and then you've got the 1,500 a month coming in from the rental property.

Starting point is 00:57:34 That'll produce 50 grand a year, give or take. So you'd have a $65,000 or $70,000 income to live on. That's not much traveling. Also, with her, she's got 240,000 and her deferred count. She's got 50,000 in her off. And I'll also get older, I'll have money when I turn 60 equals full security. You're not going to turn 60 for 20 years.

Starting point is 00:58:08 And you say you're 42? Yeah. That's 18 years. Yeah. Okay. The answer to your question is no. I don't think you're going to be able to do what you can accomplish with the money you've got. If you want to, you're just going to, if you do, it's going to be a very thin budget.

Starting point is 00:58:28 I mean, we're talking if gas prices go up, the RVs park. I mean, I don't know where you're going to be going on this kind of money. Because we're talking about you're going to have maybe $50,000, maybe $80,000 a year to live on without destroying your nest eggs that you're building between now and then. And traveling full time will eat that up pretty quick. Yeah, I don't know what kind of traveling you're talking about doing. But if that will do it for you, then yeah, you could do it. But that's a lot of truck stop food right there, man. That's, we're not doing fine dining here.

Starting point is 00:59:02 There's no Michelin stars involved in this process. Yeah. And you said you had only $45,000 in debt. And that tells me you've probably been funding a lot of this travel on credit cards with money you don't have. And that part scares me. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would look for a different process.

Starting point is 00:59:25 And because I don't think this is, you don't have the math. ready within the period of time we're talking about. So what I probably would do is this. I might retool and reset what I do for a living that gives me a lot more flexibility to where I could travel 30 or 40% of the year, work the rest of the time, not necessarily consecutive time, but take off a week here, a week there, two weeks here, two weeks there, that kind of thing. And the rest of the time I run this business that I start.

Starting point is 00:59:58 and I'm making $100,000 a year and I keep an income stream going to fund the travel and then let the nest egg build. I think you're going to have a better quality of travel and a better quality of life overall than I'm having trouble picturing how this dream works out to be anything that's dreamy. I don't think it'll last for long is the problem.

Starting point is 01:00:26 You're going to have to go back to work eventually. If it does, it's going to be a lot. stuff on the cheap, which will get old faster, you know, and given that you have an income potential for another 30 years, you know, that, there's something left out of the equation here. I'm just not comfortable with this. So I'm not going to, I wouldn't do it, so I can't tell you to do it. That's, I don't tell people do stuff I wouldn't do. I can answer your question. And the question is, you don't really, you're not really going to have enough money in five or six years to do this well.

Starting point is 01:01:04 It's going to be very tight if you do it. And you're going to struggle. And I would rather have a hybrid thing where I'm working less, but instead of not at all. And traveling less than you have in your mind, but are able to do it in a better rate, a better quality of travel, get to go places, you know, that you really did dream about going to see. But it's more of just a downshift. Instead of just, it feels like we're running away from a career I'm burnt out on rather than running to something. That's what's bothering me. Well, I find that a lot in the fire movement, Dave, and it sounds like that's kind of what he's after here.

Starting point is 01:01:45 Well, this is not. The financial independence retired. The fire movement's even got better goals than this, though. The goals associated with this are just horrible. I mean, the fire movement is not. They're a little more clear about here's the number. Well, you need a bigger number. It's always got a bigger number on it when I see that stuff.

Starting point is 01:01:59 It's not, you know. It's a seven-figure number that they can live off of as a bridge until they get to as a retirement. So describe to people of the fire movement because it isn't what we teach, but it's out there. It's existed for a long time, and it's called financial independence, retire early. And essentially it's let's work our tails off, get our income way up, keep our expenses way down, and then invest the margin in non-retirement investments so that we can use that as a bridge to live from 45, 50, 55, all the way through retirement before we can access those funds. And some people do it.

Starting point is 01:02:33 And I think the later you do it, the better your life is. The earlier you do it, what we find is that they either get bored or they run out of money or their goalpost changes and they realize I can't do this. I got to keep going and keep investing. Well, it's very few have done it successfully for their whole life. The idea of not working is much more appealing when you hate everything you do. Which is a lot of these jobs. And it's unrealistically appealing because I'm now 65 years old.

Starting point is 01:03:07 And so my contemporaries, my friends have sold their businesses, and some of them are the most miserable they've been in their lives because they don't have anything to do. They travel and they play golf and they fish. And they're productive, smart people. And they travel and they fish and they play golf. And they're not very good. And they're not having as much fun as they were when they had their hand to something. and they will tell me that often. They're like, I envy you because you still work.

Starting point is 01:03:34 Well, you like the work you do. That makes all the difference. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am right here because some extraordinary women in my life, mentors, friends, my wife, my mom, because they're all amazing. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between the responsibilities and expectations

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Starting point is 01:05:05 H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey. Sarah is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 01:05:32 Nice. So quick question. My aunt is hiding debt from my uncle. Do I get involved and tell him? Quick question and then convoluted story that kind of goes along with that. Oh, it has to be. They're like my parents. Yeah, got to be a great story. How old are these two? They're in their 60s. They have no retirements. One is not working on Social Security. My aunt is not working on Social Security and husband is. How did you get into the middle of this? They took me in when I was a child and raised me, so they're very much like my parents, and their kids are very much like my siblings. Okay. Are the other kids in on the secret as well?

Starting point is 01:06:14 Most of them, as far as I know, that's who I've heard a lot of this from and from my aunt herself. Okay. Why haven't they told her, him? Or him? Because, yeah, that nobody wants to be the rat. and now it's also generational. The daughter is doing the same thing to her husband, hiding that. Okay.

Starting point is 01:06:41 Well, I mean, you've got two options. One is you just stand back and watch this thing unfold, which is bothering you, I can tell. And I don't know the depth of your relationship. It sounds like more of a mother than an aunt the way you're describing her. Correct. And I don't know how dysfunctional the lady is. I can tell she's a little bit. or a lot, but I don't know how bad it is.

Starting point is 01:07:04 So what would happen if you sat down with her and said, Mom, what you're doing is wrong, and I love Dad, and I'm not going to let you do this to him. So you have four days till Friday evening to tell him. If you haven't told him about Friday evening, you're going to see my smiling face here Saturday morning. I'm going to tell him. I can definitely do that.

Starting point is 01:07:28 She has shared some of her debt already with him, but she's hiding some of it because she's, She thinks that he's going to end up controlling everything she has and get really angry and blow up, which has happened in the past. Well, I think that's probably, that's probably accurate. Sounds like she needs that. Yeah. And guess what? When you lie and deceive and cheat and hide target bags under the bed, then it's not cute when you're 60.

Starting point is 01:07:57 It's just dysfunctional. It's gross. So, yeah, I think he, you know, I don't think he should react any differently. But what they should do is put a game plan together that the two of them both have full transparency and they start handling their money together. And then she can buy whatever the two of them decide together that she can buy. And he can buy whatever the two of them decide together that they can buy. And so that we don't have to retire and eat dog food.

Starting point is 01:08:29 Yeah. Yeah, and that's the proper way of handling this, is that not just get mad and become controlling, but get mad and go, okay, we're going to control this to the point that you don't do anything except that we do it together, and I don't do anything except that we do it together. And that's the fix for this. But it sounded like your reaction to my suggestion was that might work. You tell her, you have a deadline, and if you don't do it, I'm going to tell him. Yes, I have been in the middle of a little bit of stuff before where she's tried to hide something, and I said, no, you can't do that. And we won't help you with that.

Starting point is 01:09:08 And she didn't talk to me for months. Well, that's okay, too. So I was, okay. I mean, because your other option is just be the rat. Yeah. That's the third option. One's do nothing. Two is say you have till Friday, or I'm going to tell him.

Starting point is 01:09:23 That's not being a rat. That's being an adult. I agree. And a rat is I sneak around behind her and use information on her against her, and that's being a rat. But just telling the truth in a dysfunctional situation to help clean it up, that's being an adult. And think about this. Their financial mess is going to become everyone's problem eventually. She's already trying to make it their problem.

Starting point is 01:09:50 That's why we're worried about that. And you are in the middle of this then, say, hey, this is going to affect us. it's already affecting us, and we can't live like this anymore. You need to talk to them. I love you and I love dad too much to participate in deception and in things that are going to bring you all apart rather than together that are going to cause you to be unsuccessful rather than successful. We want you to be successful, and it starts with you coming clean, and then you guys put together a plan, and I'll coach you and be your cheerleader on how to do that if you want me to.

Starting point is 01:10:20 But you have until Friday, Mom. And then Saturday, my smiling face. is going to be sitting there and on the front porch with a cup of coffee with that and you're going to know what we're talking about. Yeah. And that's just because I'm not going to, I'm not going to be a part of deception. That says things about me, not about you. And I'm not going to do that.

Starting point is 01:10:44 And I love dad too much to, you know, to be a part of something that's hurtful to him just to protect you and somehow you're going to corner me like I'm eight years old and I'm a rat. I'm not a rat. I'm an adult, and this is dysfunction, and we need to clean it up, and we need to get transparency on it and alignment on it, so we can work to a forward future that is fun and successful again. Joseph is in Athens, Georgia. How are you, Joseph? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 01:11:17 So I am 30 years old. I've lived my life very frugly, and I've tried saving as much as I can. I currently have a mortgage, which is my only debt, and I'm paying that off aggressively. And I'm getting married in about a month. Good for you. And thank you. My future wife will be coming in with a substantial amount of debt. How much? And I have about 220,000.

Starting point is 01:11:47 Good Lord. Is she a doctor or a lawyer? She'll be a pharmacist. All the debt is from student loans. Just for grad school. She paid a lot for her pharmacy school. Okay, so she's going to make $135,000 a year, right? About that, yes, sir. Almost like I've done this before.

Starting point is 01:12:06 And she got $220,000 in debt, and you make what? It's rained significantly over the last four years. Last year I made $450. Good for you. What do you do? I own a roofing company. Good for you. Man, I love it.

Starting point is 01:12:22 Yeah, you're printing money. and how much do you have saved? If I pull everything together, it's about 700,000. And non-retirement, or does that include retirement? There's about 50 in retirement, and the rest is just stock accounts. Okay. So after you get married, you could just write a check and pay off the student loan, right? I could.

Starting point is 01:12:48 Every time I go to, well, based on your teachings, I would never do that until the day after we get married. Good. But every time I go to get that in order, sell stocks or things like that, it's hard. Oh, yeah, it makes you want to throw up a little in the back of your mouth. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's the buffer that you've built.

Starting point is 01:13:10 It's really hard. I mean, you're a frugal saver, and we're getting ready to go the opposite direction at 100 miles an hour. Of course, it makes your stomach come up in your throat. If it didn't, you'd be weird. Yeah, that's, yeah. Now, are you guys aligned on the money values and general going forward and over doing this again um we are um pharmacy was always her dream and

Starting point is 01:13:31 she actually was on a full ride for undergrad and this is all grad school and she got completely screwed then okay it's all in state oh yeah she paid she paid double triple what she should have okay and it doesn't matter now it's behind her but are you guys aligned we're never doing this again for any dream or anything or anything i want or never again i couldn't do i can't do it again i can do it one time honey But if you think I'm going to live my whole life doing this, we are completely aligned on, we have no intent to ever have debt on anything ever again. And she's saying that loudly and with strength in her voice, not just going along with Joseph. Completely bought in. Okay.

Starting point is 01:14:13 All right, cool. Yes, then that's what I would do. But I will also sympathize and empathize with you that, you know, you're going to need a good, stiff double shot of bourbon right after you do this. Oh, my gosh. She's worth it and this sucks. Both and. She's worth every dime of it. But man, it's just, that's hard.

Starting point is 01:14:31 You've been working a long time to build this up. You've got a lot of calluses, a lot of roof and shingles slung over your shoulder to get to this. And now you got to write a check. You're going to build it right back up. Oh, man. Oh, they'll be there in no time. Speaking of things that make you want to throw up a little bit, tax season is here. But gross.

Starting point is 01:15:28 If you want some free checklists and. and guides that'll help you file, go to ramsysolutions.com slash taxes, and we'll help you with the process. It doesn't cost a thing. I noticed the word was free. Did you notice that? Chris is with us in Miami. Hi, Chris.

Starting point is 01:15:45 How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So let me give you a little bit of what's going on. I'm 25. I just got out of jail eight months ago.

Starting point is 01:15:59 Since then, I've been out of program. Brown, which has been allowing me to work. They allow you to work after a certain period of time. So I've been working about six months at a car wash or a detail of ship or whatever. I have a few certifications. I saved up 6K, like 6.6, but I have debt. And I'd say that's like around 13,000. I could like break it down.

Starting point is 01:16:26 But that's another thing I have going on. And I mentioned the certifications I have, but not it. It's not like, but I just, I'm kind of lost at finding a career too. So I'm basically just trying to like invest and change my life around and everything like that. Good for you. Good for you. Way to go. I'm proud of you.

Starting point is 01:16:47 So how long were you in jail? I was in jail 10 months. For what? A felony? Yes. Okay. Do you want to know the charge? I don't care if you want to tell me.

Starting point is 01:16:59 It's fine. There's an aggravated battery and a Grandf Auto. Okay. All right. So have you got all that kind of behavior stuff in your rearview mirror? Because that's going to be a condition for you to be successful. I mean, obviously that has to be something we never go near again to be successful in a career and in business. Agreed?

Starting point is 01:17:22 Right, of course. Okay. I mean, that's obvious, right? Yes. Okay. Cool. I'm just going to say it out loud because I'll make sure we're all on the same page. So I'm proud of you, man.

Starting point is 01:17:33 Good for you. So we're going to get a clean, fresh start. How old are you? I'm 25. Okay. And you said you're working in a car wash now. What are you making now? 14 flat tips with tips.

Starting point is 01:17:48 Okay. All right, cool. And what do you do to get tips? Like super dry the windshield and all when they come through the car wash and run around and smile and make sure they get a super extra touch of niceness and you're smiling and they give you a tip. Is that how that works? Right. Yeah, basically.

Starting point is 01:18:07 Yeah, lots of energy and eye contact and smiles and people skills, right? Yes. That's a good thing to practice, by the way. That works in the boardroom. That works at the car wash. That works at the table when you're serving in a restaurant. That works just about anywhere you go. Okay.

Starting point is 01:18:24 So that's a good thing to work through. Those are soft skills. Yeah. Exactly. Now, is the plan to continue to work there for a while, or what's your plan right now? The plan? Because I could be leaving the program earliest in June, latest in December, if I get an extension. The plan now is to save as much money as possible.

Starting point is 01:18:48 I'm at 6,000. I want to leave with 10,000. Good. But the plan now is to save as much as possible for when I have to pay rent and start living on my own and find a career. Like, I can't even stress that enough. Yeah, good for you. I like that a lot.

Starting point is 01:19:04 Okay, what are you thinking about doing as a career? I'm not sure. I can tell you the couple of certifications I have. I have a certification in Oshutton. I could join the union, be a loved that I heard that's a good thing. I have a fourth-year-old certification, and I just got certified and being a personal trainer. I had an interview.

Starting point is 01:19:26 I didn't get the job, but the people at the program, are telling me just to keep going and stay positive. So those are the three certificates I have right now. Okay. I have experience in other jobs, of course, but it was like... On the short term, on the short term, I like the welding and the forklift, because you're probably going to make $30 to $40 an hour at either one of those. And the personal trainer is going to take a while to build a book of business

Starting point is 01:19:53 where you start making a living. That's like a nights and weekends thing to start building. Yeah, that might be some... That might be my side hustle, and I practice some of those soft skills we're talking about, and, you know, your people skills and so forth while there. Meanwhile, I'm driving a forklift 40 hours a week, making 30, 40 bucks an hour. I'm looking for that right now if I'm you. So the good news is welding and anything, the trades where you're driving something,

Starting point is 01:20:18 those kinds of things, there's a shortage of help right now, and it's a really good job market for you. So if I'm you, I'm going to start really looking for those two things right now. even though you're not going to start today, you're still in the program. But I want to know 16 people that are hiring forklift driving within a 30-mile or 40-mile radius if you're going to stay in the Miami area. Or if you're going to move up into Fort Lauderdale, where are we going? Where are we going to get that kind of a job? The good news is that's a big metropolitan market there, huge market, one of the top five cities areas in the nation. And so lots of things happening there in commerce in welding and in forklifting.

Starting point is 01:20:58 So I want you to go, you know, practice those interviews a bunch of them and stay positive. And anybody you can get a connection to that will give you a chance and give you a job. And then when you get there and you land that first position, it's very important that you become the best employee that company has ever had. that they are so proud six months from the time they hire you that they gave you a shot because you're early, you leave late, you work hard while you're there, you're accident-free and careful, you're kind to the people around you. You don't stir up crap. You get the work done and help everybody else get their work done.

Starting point is 01:21:48 you're like a dream come true of an employee. That's your job. It's not just to do the job. You've got to do the job plus everything else so that everybody's happy they gave Chris a shot at his new life. And you know what will happen then? Five years from now, you'll own the Forklift Company. So a friend of mine owns a Forklift Company right now. He doesn't have any branches where you are.

Starting point is 01:22:21 but they're in seven cities, hundreds of millions of dollars. His father bought the Forklift Company, but he started as the janitor and worked his way from janitor to driving to management, bought the Forklift Company. His dad passed away a few years ago. Buddy of mine runs the whole thing with his brothers, and that's your future. That's your grandkids we're talking about. but it starts right now with Chris change in his life. That's where this can go.

Starting point is 01:22:56 And it can start with something as simple as you're the best employee they've ever had. And by the way, start practicing that at the car wash today. Those skills will transfer right over. Everybody that's around you that's negative, stay away from them. Everybody that's around you that's positive, you're going to become who you hang around with. When they're smiling and they're happy and they're grateful for the job, I'm grateful. I've got a towel in my hand. and I'm not in a jail.

Starting point is 01:23:21 And I get to clean this windshield right now. And I am the happiest human being that's free on the planet right now. And, you know, you just got a just attitude of gratitude. Who are you hanging out with? Who are you acting like? And then I want you to start reading books like a crazy man and applying yourself. I think you're going to do really well. I'm excited for you.

Starting point is 01:23:42 I think you're going to have a great new future. And part of the reason I think that is a guy like you that calls a show like this. you got a real shot man the guys like you that don't call a show like this they're going to be they're going to be back in jail they're going to have other problems but when you reach out and you say how can i change my life what can i do that's the guy that that's the guy that's the guy that goes and wins you're the guy that they write books about later that's that's what you can be so you hang on defray screamed is one of the most inspiring from those that have been incarcerated and they come out man they'll get some leaky eyes absolutely absolutely

Starting point is 01:24:19 Hang on, we're going to give you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do. It has an assessment in it. It's our gift to you. I want you to take the assessment. I want you read the book. Remember, you become who you hang around with and what you read. So choose who you hang around with and what you read.

Starting point is 01:24:39 Because 10 years later, you're going to look just like them, buddy. That's how it works. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Dave is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Dave, how are you? Yeah, I'm doing well.

Starting point is 01:25:40 Thanks for taking the call. Sure. My question is a financial question and I guess a spiritual question. Okay. I was raised to respect both my parents when my parents got divorced when I was nine. My dad never ever let me speak ill with my mother. he passed away in June. She's still alive, and she's going through struggles right now,

Starting point is 01:26:05 and since December we've come out of pocket almost $13,000 to pay for things for her, and it's starting to put a dent in our savings and our planning. And I'm wondering where that line between respecting your parents and putting yourself in jeopardy, where it ends. Well, you're a good man. You take after your dad. So what has your mom gotten herself into this $13,000? What's the deal?

Starting point is 01:26:34 Well, she went into the hospital in December with an illness. She got out. She retired from her job at 52, and instead of taking the life cycle pension from her company, she took a cash lump sum option, and she spent all of that in about six years. How old is she now? She's 76. Okay. So she's been living off of Social Security and any amount of money that I've been able to provide her.

Starting point is 01:27:08 And Medicare. And that as well. And so the 13,000 was what Medicare didn't cover on the hospital stay? So 13,000. We're trying to move her up to the Raleigh area where we're at from Florida. So we've tallied up how much it costs for the U-Haul. she's in the hospital again down in Florida so we tallied up like U-Hauls, flights,

Starting point is 01:27:31 doctors visits that weren't covered so yeah it's starting to become kind of a Okay so she's currently in the hospital And so the 13,000 is not happened yet But that's what you think it's going to take to move her and clear up the mess Oh no, it's happened already yet That's what we're at so far Oh but and then so there's more to come if you move

Starting point is 01:27:51 Yes correct Okay is her is does she own a home there No, sir. She's been written since she moved to Florida. What's her Social Security every month? Her income. Around 2100. Okay. All right. Well, so let me pan back just a second, and then we'll come in and actually work on the mechanics of how you can actually help her, okay? But let's pan back from the thing of honor your father and mother, the Bible says. That does not mean that we honor dad doing cocaine.

Starting point is 01:28:32 Okay? It means that we honor the position of father, not the misbehavior of the individual who holds the position. It's the same as when we pray for our leaders. We don't necessarily have to like them personally or their politics, but we're still supposed to pray for our leaders. Pray for the president, right? and so I agreed with almost nothing Joe Biden said, but I believe in praying for the president. So I prayed for Joe Biden.

Starting point is 01:29:02 Okay? You follow me? And you can go wherever you want to go with that. The same thing's true here. So we want to be honoring of the position of mother, but that does not mean we participate in dysfunction or allow it or enable it or something along those lines. So having said that, now how does that play out in your situation? I think you're already on to it.

Starting point is 01:29:24 What do you guys make a year? We're about $250,000 a year. And how much money do you guys have saved in your nest egg? Close to $2.2 million. Okay. So you don't have a financial problem due to mom. You have an aggravation. And it's an aggravation as well as, you know, a lot of our short-term savings where, you know, you build up.

Starting point is 01:29:46 You have $2 million. Shut up. The next paycheck will refill that. No problem. $13,000 is not a problem. Okay. We'll figure this out. All right. So, but having said that, so you're really not going to go hungry because of this, but we've got to put something reasonable. So I would move mom up there, write a check. Honestly, if I got $2 million, I ain't no U-Haul involved. I'm paying somebody else to do the move. But you do whatever you want to do. I'm not taking my pickup down there. But you do whatever you want to do. But that's me. So anyway, I'm going to get her up there, get the hospital bills cleaned up, and then say, okay, mom, you are dependent on us.

Starting point is 01:30:24 to be able to exist. So that means I am now managing your budget. So your $2,000 that comes in, we're going to put you on a budget to live on that. We're going to find you a one-bedroom apartment that you live in near us. So you can come over and see us on Sundays after church and we can have dinner and whatever. And you're going to be in a nice little apartment that you can afford on $2,000 a month. We're going to manage your medical events with Medicare. And my wife and I, my wife and I, we're going to help you a little bit.

Starting point is 01:30:54 bit here and there as we need be, but this is not an open checkbook. We're not in Congress, and we're actually going to manage this thing, and you're going to live on what you have to live on because you've spent all your money. And then I'm going to help when I have to, but I'm not going to help because you misbehave. So, Mom, I'm going to help you with this budget, and you're going to have this much for food, and you're going to have this much for lights and water, and we're going to pay your rent, and you're going to have, is she still driving? Yeah, she's capable of driving. Does she have a car?

Starting point is 01:31:27 Yes, she does. Okay, so we're going to keep the car up. We're going to keep insurance on it. You have the gas in the car, mom. And so you're going to live on that, which means you're going to have a fairly meager life, but that's what you signed up for in this process. But I will make sure that you're not homeless or hungry.

Starting point is 01:31:42 Yeah, and that's the road we've been on. We got the apartment two weeks ago. We moved her stuff up from Florida last week, and unfortunately during the package, process. She had to go into the hospital unexpectedly. So, yeah. Yeah. But that's, that's, you know, and so you've got X number of years to manage the relationship and the mathematics. And that's the way you will honor your mother. But that does not, but it is not honoring to her for you to open up a checkbook and she gets $10,000 a

Starting point is 01:32:15 month to blow. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Nor were you planning to. Yeah, you weren't, that wasn't, that wasn't why. you called. But yeah, I'm just, I, my point is that this philosophical thing I hear, sometimes people say, in the name of honoring my father and mother, I'm going to justify my enabling. You're not doing that. You're not wanting to do that. But for everyone else listening, I'm trying to put that out there. That is not what the Bible means on that. And so, nor what your dad meant that you were to not speak ill of her. And you have done a good job of

Starting point is 01:32:49 not speaking ill of her. You gave facts of things where she, She's messed up, but there was no drama in your voice. You just got this thing I'm carrying, and I want to be a good person and be kind to my own mother. And that's good. You know, you should. That makes you a good guy. Yeah, you're there to make sure she's not homeless, prevent the catastrophe. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:09 But you're not there to also make her super comfortable and have a lavish lifestyle. And so there's a balance there. And I think that boundary is hard to set when it's your own mother and father. But I just think you say, this is what it is. And she doesn't have a lot of choices. You don't get a vote at this point. It's the life you set up for yourself. Because she started taking my money.

Starting point is 01:33:25 Once she started taking my money, it's my vote. And so now I'm going to help you. Now I'm going to love you well. And you may or may not like the process, but I'm going to love you. You're going to protect her from herself at this point. That's the way you honor her. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next.

Starting point is 01:34:22 Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Bill is in Rochester, New York. Hey, Bill, how are you?

Starting point is 01:35:16 Good, sir. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, I wish I could say that. I retired at the beginning part of the year January 1st, growing my job. I've been doing part-time real estate for a couple of years. Now I'm doing it full-time,

Starting point is 01:35:34 but it looks like I'm going to be making over the threshold for Social Security Administration to start taking back some of my income through the real estate. Oh, you mean not taking back the income? You mean taxing it? Correct. Yeah, where they tax it 50 cents on the dollar. Yeah. And I'm just wondering that the money has started coming in from Social Security yet.

Starting point is 01:35:59 Do I cancel the claim and just stay with the real estate, or do I keep that Social Security as like a security blanket? But then I'm going to end up paying a lot of money if I do as well as it looks like I'm going to. You've already claimed it? The claim is in. Okay. But it hasn't started yet. They lost my paperwork. Oh.

Starting point is 01:36:26 Well, I mean, if there's a way you can back out of this because of that, that's the way to do it. Because once you start, there's no stopping. So how much you're making in the real estate business, Bill? Right now, this year, I haven't made a lot of like $700 for one deal. But I've got one that's under contract. My listing goes live this weekend. and I've got two other ones that I mean. So how much do you think you're going to make in the real estate business?

Starting point is 01:37:00 Well, I'm at least $30,000. Okay. I don't think $30,000 is going to break the means test, does it? $24,000 is what they're saying. Oh, $24,000. Okay. And the taxes, they tax half of it, but they don't, the tax is not 50%. Half of your Social Security becomes taxable.

Starting point is 01:37:21 which is 30% of half or 20% of half. Okay. So how much is your Social Security supposed to be? $2,800 a month. Okay, so $1,400 becomes taxable if you break the means. Is that right, George? Is that how it works? Yeah, but I'm looking at the table here.

Starting point is 01:37:40 It's up to 50% if you're making $25 to $34K as a single person. Up to 50% is taxable, not taxation. Exactly. Right. The benefit. So if you're in a 20% taxable, bracket, that means 20% of $1,400. So $280 a month. So $3,000 a year is the tax bill. Whoopee.

Starting point is 01:38:10 And then I can make... You can make it whatever you want to make. Oh, I thought it was taxed on how much I make over the 24. No, you said 50% of the Social Security becomes taxable, right, George? Yes, so under 25K, it's 0%. It's that 25K at up to 34K is what's taxable up to 50% of the benefits. The 50% of the benefits become taxable. So if you go make $100,000 or you're going to make $70,000 in a real estate business,

Starting point is 01:38:45 $1,400 a month becomes taxable, right, George? Yeah. Okay. And if your tax bracket is 20%, your tax amount on $1,400 will be 20% of $1,400, which will be $280, which is about $3,000 a year. So I don't think it's going to be as awful as you think it is if you continue this. That's my point. Go make a bunch of money. And I'm also saying you can withdraw the application within the first 12 months.

Starting point is 01:39:11 So I think you're still good. If you don't need it right now and you want to work, then don't take it. Yeah. If you're going to go make a bunch of money and you don't want to deal with this, that's fine. but my point is it's mathematically not that big a deal don't miss out on making an extra 40 or 50,000 or 50,000 dollars because you've got $3,000 in taxes if you do. That's not, that's not, that's not, that's not. We're stepping over dollars to pick up a nickel, so it's not worth it.

Starting point is 01:39:33 Don't don't, don't let that be a demotivator to you. So if you want to pull it, George is saying that he's reading up on it right now while we're on there. I don't know this, but he's saying you can pull the app up it into the first 12 months. So pull it if you want to pull it. But otherwise, go to your tax. person and sit down and make sure the calculation I'm doing in my head on the air is correct because I could be screwing this up. It's possible.

Starting point is 01:39:56 And you can connect with the tax pro. If I understand right, if you sit down with one of our tax pros, go to Ramsey Solutions.com. They'll tell you what it is. And you can figure out exactly what it's going to be. If it's what I think it is, though, it's about $3,000 a year. If I understood the deal right, if you go over $40,000, say. If you go make $40,000 or $50,000, that's going to create an extra taxation on half of your Social Security becomes taxable. And if you're in a 20% tax bracket, then that would be 20% of $1,400 because 50% of $2,800 is $1,400. So that's how I'm doing the math. But if in case I'm messing it up, double check it with a professional.

Starting point is 01:40:37 And then you can decide what you want to do, whether you want to pull the app or not. I'm pretty sure that's an accurate thing that you can pull the app up to 12 months. Yeah. And it sounds like it haven't even gone through yet. Yeah. So you're fine. I'm not super concerned about that. I'd dial it back and not fool with it if I were you. Because this real estate stuff could take off. Yeah, it sounds like you got some, sound like you fooling around and making some money. That's awesome. That's fun. That's cool. I like that. Andrew is in Indianapolis. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

Starting point is 01:41:05 Hey, Dave. I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? That's good. I have a question about some student loan payoff strategies. I currently have about 170. thousand dollars in student loan debt private and federal. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? I'm a software engineer, but I had a stay on my loan due to a co-center bankruptcy and interest racked up on a private loan. It's a private loan. Very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, so about 135 is a private loan, and then around 30 or so is federal. What are you making now? 170. Oh, good. Okay. So when we get through with the call, I'm going to put you on hold and Christian. Our phone screen is going to pick up and put you

Starting point is 01:41:49 in touch with the Y refi people that we advertise for. And they specialize in student loan, private student loans that are in default, recasting them, resetting them and getting a lower interest rate. They also have a possibility, check on this, of a lump sum discount on your loan. They know how to buy your loan out at a discount and let you buy it out at a discount. And so if it's 130, let's say you could buy it for 80. I want you to scrape together the 80 and take it out if that could happen. So when we get done with the call, that's going to be your other assignment. But let's go ahead and go into what your question was.

Starting point is 01:42:28 Great. Yeah, so I actually already refinanced. So I went through one provider at a 9.85 percent interest rate, and I just got it down to 5.81. Okay. And my question is, I'm going to pay off the federal student loans in about eight months. Good. I'm paying off very aggressively about $5,000 a month. Good.

Starting point is 01:42:50 And after I pay off my federal loans, I was wondering if you think I should aggressively pay off the private loans at $5,000 a month, or if you think it would be a good idea to pay off the minimums every month and invest about $4,000 or so into S&P 500 or any investment. because I understand, and after three years, take out the sum for the remaining private student loans and pay it off and then have potential upside from market gains. I understand that option one just aggressively paying up the student loans, guarantees an equal rate to my, or equal return to my interest rate. You've left some math out of your equation. Yeah. The math you left out of your equation is risk. Right.

Starting point is 01:43:37 And peace of mind. And so here's the data point that I'll tell you. We studied and interviewed, researched 10,167 millionaires. Nine out of ten of them became millionaires starting from nothing. The number of them that said I became a millionaire by not paying off my debt and instead investing to more quickly pay off my debt, the number of millionaires that actually did that plan was zero out of 10,000. so no one that has money tries crap like you're trying to pull.

Starting point is 01:44:13 Instead, they just pay it off and are free and then take a wonderful $17,000 income and get in attack mode and go build some wealth because I got rid of all my stupid debt. I talk to people on the Ramsey show. 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. they're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our every dollar budget app. Every dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget. It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personal. to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the every dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today. Roman and Jennifer on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey guys, how are you? Better than we deserve. I love it. Where do y'all live?

Starting point is 01:46:13 Jackson, Tennessee. Jackson, Tennessee. Just up the road. Well, welcome. Good to have you guys. Thank you, sir. And how much debt have you two paid off? $154,000. I love it. And how long did that take you? 23 months. Good for you. Whoa! That's quick. And your range of income during that two years? I went from $148,000 to about $154.

Starting point is 01:46:34 Good. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a teacher. And I'm a district manager for a local convenience and QSR destination. Excellent. Very cool. What kind of debt was the $154,000? Boy, it was one car, one credit card, and 11 student loans. Wow. Did you sell anything to do this? Because $75,000 a year?

Starting point is 01:46:56 Everything. People thought we were going crazy. Like, they literally called. We did not sell the car. We had enough equity in. We decided, and she loves the car, so we decided to keep it. But we went through and realized that we had a whole bunch of stuff in the house that we didn't need. Okay.

Starting point is 01:47:12 So just decided. What were some of the big ticket items you guys sold? A couch, a chair. just a bunch of furniture items. We had multiple living room sets and had one and a half living rooms. We just figured it. We had accumulated a lot over the years

Starting point is 01:47:25 and never really gotten rid of anything. Wow. So I thought it was time to... Okay. But there wasn't any $15,000 or $20,000 items then? No, no. Okay. So most of this was cash flow through your income.

Starting point is 01:47:33 We picked up, both of us picked up second jobs. He was door dashing and I worked at AAT restaurant. Wow. Look at you. And we cut our expenses to the bone. I can tell. Yeah. Because, I mean, you made 150, but you paid off 70s.

Starting point is 01:47:47 $25,000 a year and paid taxes. Gee. And ate food and stuff. We ate at home, Dave. Yeah, I'm telling you. We quit the restaurants. I'm telling you. People thought we were weird.

Starting point is 01:47:59 Because you were. We were. Because normal's broke. You don't be normal. You want to be weird. All right, guys. So how long y'all been married? Be 20 years in May.

Starting point is 01:48:08 Okay, but two years ago something happened. What happened? They cut this loose. Well, it was about two weeks before our 40th birthday. She's four days older than me. You married an older woman. I did marry an older woman. That's right.

Starting point is 01:48:20 Lasser. We were doing our taxes for 23, and we realized that we had the best year we'd ever had, and we had nothing. Nothing left. It was all gone. And so I just thought, you know, I got a very good year-in bonus and decided, you know what? This credit card is gone. We're going to get rid of it.

Starting point is 01:48:38 And so paid off the credit card, and it took us a couple months to really kind of get on track with the entirety of the lifestyle. after we paid that credit card off. How'd you plug into the Ramsey stuff? Well, we, uh, through my company actually offers a smart dollar program. Oh, your company offers our stuff. Yes, absolutely. And, and.

Starting point is 01:48:58 What company? I work for Dodge's Chicken. Oh, yeah. Okay. And so we, we have the smart dollar program and I'm a, I'm a very big advocate of it. We have a monthly meetings at all my stores. And every time we, we have one of those meetings, we play a little day video and we watch some of the stuff and trying to get them engaged in the program.

Starting point is 01:49:15 So that hopefully we can hope. not just do this ourselves, but share it with the other folks who we're working with. Yeah. Way to go, man. Now you're the poster child. You've actually lived it. I love it. Your story is the most inspirational part to them. They're going, this guy did this plan. I'll do it too. We need a Roman video. Wow. But it's been a great blessing. God has been with us the whole way. So that showed up at your company about the time you guys made this decision? A little bit before, but I didn't really, I didn't really dive in until about that window when I realized that we had the option. When you looked at the tax return and then you paid off the credit card, you go, okay, I'm going to do that Ramsey stuff at work.

Starting point is 01:49:51 Yes. Okay. Yes. Because for those of you don't know, smart dollars are a program that companies buy as an HR benefit for their whole teams. So like U-Haul, Costco, all their employees have been through our smart dollar program or had it available to them anyway to go and learn how to get out of debt, be on a budget, all the stuff we teach. So, wow, man, way to go. Proud of you. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:50:13 Very cool. How's it feel to be free? weird like it's it's it's I had to change my perspective because um how long ago were you a hundred percent you're debt free everything but the house now correct how long ago were you debt free everything but the house do you remember uh December 20th no I'm talking about before when you first got married we weren't no we we've never been this is the first time in our adult lives you've had debt for your whole lives yeah we were the ones who kept the kept those student loans around like a pet we thought it was just something we're going to hang on to for the rest of our lives

Starting point is 01:50:45 Just make the minimums and let it ride. Yeah, unfortunately. Oh, yeah. So you come out of school, get married to student loans, so you've been the whole time with that. Yes. Up until 23 months ago, you turned it on and now you're debt free. Yes, sir.

Starting point is 01:50:57 Wow, that's so cool. Did you guys have a goal of we're going to do this in under two years, or was this just you guys went so hard you didn't realize it? We watched the video, and any time that I would make a bad decision, he would remind me, he would say cheetah, and I would have to stop. We had to watch out for the cheetahs. We had to watch out for the cheetah. That was the key word was Cheetah.

Starting point is 01:51:17 That's burned in your memory after watching those videos. Yes. Cheetah! Cheetah! And I would, I'd know what he was talking about and I'd have to refocus. I love it. We took FPU in the fall of 24. I just want to shout out our director of Bonnie Droader.

Starting point is 01:51:31 She was awesome. She really helped us out. Very cool. Very cool. All right. Now that you've done it, you sacrifice really deep. I mean, you went hard in the paint, man. I mean, this is hard.

Starting point is 01:51:44 Was it worth it? Absolutely. We were just discussing on the way up here. We almost don't even know how to make decisions based on what we want to do. It's always been what we had to do. And so it's going to be a big paradigm shift for both of us, figuring out how we do, how we live our lives at our direction at this point, because it's always been just doing what we can to get by.

Starting point is 01:52:04 And so it's changed a lot for us. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. What I want to do instead of what I have to do. Yeah. That's incredible. So what will you do? What's the first big thing to celebrate?

Starting point is 01:52:15 Well, Dave, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go play some golf. I like it. Because I gave up golf right after I picked it up. Okay. Because it was too expensive. I realized that was the first thing I'd get cut. Yeah. And so we cut the golf.

Starting point is 01:52:26 So I'm going to pick up golf again. This is our fourth time here being in Ramsey Solutions and every time we've seen doing these. And it just really inspired us to, hey, it's all about the little things in life. And so we don't have to do a big, big thing to celebrate. We're free. We're here together. And this is the start of something new for us now. Amen.

Starting point is 01:52:44 Amen. Amen. So Jennifer, who was the spender? Who's the saver? I'm the spender. Okay. Me too. Yes, I'm the spender. He's definitely. He's my nerd and I love them. So now that you're free, can you relax a little bit and enjoy it a little bit? I can't. I'm going to go get me some cozy our sheets now. Yes. Rachel and I talk about those. They're the best sheets I've ever around.

Starting point is 01:53:06 I'm excited. That's all I've talked about. Are they still advertising with us? Oh, yeah. They're fantastic. Okay, no. Actually, we're going to get you a set. We're going to take care of. We'll spear you. George will take care of that. I'll make sure it happens for you.

Starting point is 01:53:22 If they're an advertiser, I can get you a set of sheets. Dave can just make it happen like that. Just like that. Not for the kids, though. I think you ought to celebrate, man. I mean, this is good. I love that. That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:53:33 It's great. If they get a shout out, they'll at least give you some sheets. 32 million people just heard this. That's fantastic. Way to go, you guys. out of you. And you brought the kiddos and what are their names and ages, have them come up and join you. All right. We got Caitlin, who's 19. Kela, who's 18, sorry. And then Carrie, who's 10. Okay. And they survived this two years of sacrifice.

Starting point is 01:53:58 We caught their senior years with it, so it was tougher for them than they should have been. But Caitlin has cash flowed her first year of college, so she did not sign a loan her first year. Love it. Where's she in school? At Fried Hartman University. Oh, yeah. Yeah, very good. Okay. Perfect. Well, congratulations you guys. We're proud of you. Your heroes. Look at this family. This is a family that's free right here, man. They are free. They are free. They busted it. I mean, you busted it. $154,000 paid off in 23 months, making $148 to $154. They didn't do nothing except get out of debt. Man, that's impressive. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Okay, ready? Three, two, one. We're dead free!

Starting point is 01:54:53 Incredible. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. And they're getting two every dollar subscriptions and some sheets from Coz's the Earth. Man, they won big today. Yeah, well, you've got to make sure that all that connection happens and get this done now. Who needs game shows? Just come to your debt-free screen. That's how you win bigger out here.

Starting point is 01:55:08 Get games and prizes. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelmed. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to

Starting point is 01:56:18 take the next steps toward your home goals, go to Ramsey Solutions.com slash real estate. That's ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. Our scripture of the day, First Peter 5-10 and the God of grace who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast. Theodore Roosevelt said, courage is not having the strength to go on. It is going on when you don't have the strength. William is with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hi, William. How are you? I'm excellent, Dave, yourself. Better than I deserve. What's up? So I've got two kids in college.

Starting point is 01:57:11 I'm going to get them out, both debt-free, but one of them's going to go on to med school, and I don't have that money set aside. Okay. Looking for some directions and some advice. Okay. What's the conversation been like with them? Did you promise them, hey, I'll cover your undergrad, but the rest is up to you? No, there was never that promise, one way or another.

Starting point is 01:57:40 I mean, we've talked about it, and they are willing to take on the debt. And, of course, I don't want to see them take on the debt, nor do I want to take on the debt. I wouldn't, for sure. If they want to do it, it's, of course, up to them. They're grown at that point. Well, I mean, we have talked to more than 20 people over the last several years that have gone to med school without. any student loan debt and they've used several different methodologies. The first thing is to get over the idea that you have to go to the one school that accepted you that happens to be the

Starting point is 01:58:29 most expensive school in the freaking world. Because when you go in to sit down with your MD, no one asks where you went to school. You ask, can you fix my broken body? That's what you ask, can you help me heal? That's what you ask. You don't ask. I honestly, one of my good personal friends is my personal physician. I have no idea where he went to med school. And I've known him 15 years. I don't care. He's going locally. Yeah, I don't care. So the point is, I want him to go where the least expensive possible med school. That's thing one. Thing two is look into what are called MD PhD programs. And not all med schools have them.

Starting point is 01:59:19 Some of them that have them are famous, like Duke, very difficult to get in. But if you can get into the PhD program, you become an employee of the university, and then med school is free. But you're working as a TA and working as a, you're working as a TA and working. working on a PhD as well while you're working on the actual MD. And so it's a complicated process, but the bottom line of it is you get med school free because you're an employee. And that's how the programs work.

Starting point is 01:59:55 Those types and it falls generally under fellowship programs, those types of things. So I want to learn about that. I want to look at that. And an obvious one that is not necessarily popular, but that is obvious and everyone knows about, but not everyone elects. is the military will pay for it if you join the military. Gotcha. And, you know, but you're going to give up a few years of service to the military in return for...

Starting point is 02:00:21 After graduation. After graduation. And after your an MD, you're going to serve as, you know, in the medical field within the military. You're going to serve your country that way for a while because your country paid for your education. But you can go free. That's the ways that I know of. George, do you have any other methodologies that you can? go and not take out on the debt?

Starting point is 02:00:41 Similarly to the military, there's one called the National Health Service Corps, and it's similar where you serve in an underserved community after graduation, and they'll cover your tuition. But that's a reimbursement in it. They'll provide scholarships, and there's loan repayment options, but the scholarship route would be the one to go, obviously, to go debt-free. So the key is doing a ton of research, picking the cheapest school possible, and then doing your best to cash flow it, and they work part-time if they can,

Starting point is 02:01:08 and if you want to pitch in to help cover that, you can, but you're under no obligation. So I wouldn't feel guilty for it. But this is going to, you're going to help them come up with a plan. That's the best thing you can do. If you've got cash that you can throw out to help them get through and you want to do that, there's nothing wrong with that. Or if you can find room in your budget or, you know, room in your asset base or something to help them and you want to do that, that's okay.

Starting point is 02:01:32 There's nothing illegal or immoral about that or even against the Ramsey plan. I don't mind a parent paying for grad school if that's what they want to do and you have the money. But I would coach you, William, as the dad, not to go into debt for your kid to go to school under any circumstances. No parent plus loans, no single time. I would do that. And here's the problem. We automatically assume I'm going to go $250,000 in debt to go and get an MD that I'm going to become an MD and I'm going to make a lot of money in as an MD. Those are negative assumptions. because everybody that goes to med school doesn't graduate.

Starting point is 02:02:09 Same with law school. We see a lot of that. Some people don't make it out. And you know what does graduate? Whether you graduate or not, those loans are still there. No contingency of, well, if and when you graduate, then you can pay us back. Yeah, it's nothing like that. And so, you know, try flunking out of med school and having $150,000 worth of debt.

Starting point is 02:02:28 That'll piss you off. That's a bad plan. Oh, or come out and, you know, the type of medicine you want to serve in. is, you know, been taken over and socialized, and it's very difficult to get a job making over 80 grand, and you could have made that driving, you know, as a diesel mechanic, and you wouldn't have been $250,000 in debt. So, you know, you don't want to go there. That's not the direct, that's not how we want to build this out.

Starting point is 02:02:54 So we don't build this out on, oh, I'm automatically going to make $400,000 a year for the rest of my life. No, you're not. There's no automatic, nothing. All right. Carrie is with us in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Carrie. How are you?

Starting point is 02:03:06 Hi, good. Thanks for having me. Sure. How can we help? So we accepted placement of a two-week-old little foster baby, very unexpected as we had closed our license a year prior. But she was directly related to our adopted kiddo. So we're just feeling really discouraged because our land came to a halt then. And now we're kind of, this was back in November, now we're kind of picking up the pieces and just, wondering for any advice. Why did your plan come to a halt with a two-week-old?

Starting point is 02:03:43 Well, we, because I needed a leave of absence from work. And I still was making an income because we own our own business. So I'm still working, doing some work from home. So you gave up your job to take in a foster child. I didn't. I still can have my job. But I'm having a hard, so we own our own business. So I have gone back to work already, just only three to four days a week.

Starting point is 02:04:13 And it's just really hard finding that family balance. Does the state of Washington pay anything for foster care? Yeah, they do, yep, which is helpful. How much? It's just less. It is for her, because of her needs, it's like around $1,400 a month. But you were making a lot more than that. Yeah, but I am still making some.

Starting point is 02:04:35 I work from home and I go in a few days a week. It's just with her needs and the lack of child care. The balance is just hard. So what is the timeline on this foster care? I probably won't know. I mean, it's going to be a while at least 18 months of her age. And then actually at 18 months, if she's still with us, she can go into daycare full time.

Starting point is 02:04:58 So that will be helpful. And it's because they don't take spots. There's not very many spots for infants in my area. So. But I mean, a two-week-old, so it sounds like the parent is gone. Yeah. Yeah. So the likelihood we have her will be a few more years if, and then, you know, we just don't know what will happen.

Starting point is 02:05:22 But we felt really obligated to take her in like we wanted to, and it's so special. But I just feel like our flight, we were doing so good. We actually closed their life. There's a direct cost to this call on your life. And you chose the call. You answered the call. And with that, goes the cost. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:05:45 I just feel so guilty going in more than I probably could go in one more day a week. So this is not a financial question. You just want to be there more? No, it's a financial question. She cut her pay substantially to take on a foster care that's $1,400 a month. Now, there's a problem. But you just have to accept that that's what I chose to do. You can't say it's so special and not take the math with it.

Starting point is 02:06:08 The math goes with the special. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace. Christ Jesus.

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