The Ramsey Show - Your Income Is Your Greatest Wealth Building Tool

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Ramsey Show America where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. Happy, happy new year live for the first time in 2025. George Campbell is alongside. Happy new year, Ken. Hey, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

Starting point is 00:00:42 All right, George, you ready to get it started? I hope so, I'm a little foggy. You're a little foggy? Callers are lined up and we're going to Australia for the first call of the show today. How fun is this? Charlene joins us. Charlene, how can we help today? Hi guys, happy new year. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on today? My question about my frivolous spending is where we're at at the start of the year. A little about my background. I'm a single mom to a toddler earning $88,000 annually and working part-time. I have a budget that I think or at least I thought was

Starting point is 00:01:28 quite strong and there's a line item in my budget for food and spending but without sale I'm blowing through that allowance every month and I'm just there's little to no enjoyment with the things that I'm spending that money on and so there's always kind of buyer's remorse and always way more months than there is money and so no matter how I tweak the budget I just can't seem to fix it. It's not a budget issue. It sounds like it's a behavior issue. So give us an idea.

Starting point is 00:02:12 Give us an idea of this. You called it food and spending. I know George wants to know this. I want to know, what do you include in food and spending? And then give us an idea of the consistencies of what you're spending too much money on in that line item of food and spending. Takeout, first and foremost. I hate to cook, so there's a lot of signing out or fast food takeout that's being spent and it's

Starting point is 00:02:47 shopping of any sort. I can't stop myself from just buying anything that I see online or walk past the store or if my son you know he looks at something and there's a twinkle in his eye he'll immediately get it and there's just no second of thought. I just buy and then it's almost immediately after I've made the purchase that I get that buy it from Austin. I'm annoyed with myself that I bought it but you know damage is already done so I'm trying to figure out a way to stop the swiping instead of feeling bad about it afterwards. Well, one way, the easiest, fastest way is to get rid of the mechanism that you are using

Starting point is 00:03:33 to swipe. Is this a credit card that you're using? Yes, yes and no. I've got the cash. I just don't like using the cash because I know that history has told me I'm not going to have enough at the end of the month. So I do use my credit card and it does get paid off every month, but yes, I use the card so that... But you see what would happen there? Let's say if you cut up the card and you only had the cash, which was only enough to cover your bills, you know what you would do?

Starting point is 00:04:05 You would just cover your bills. But then what happens if I can't eat? You use the cash to eat and cover your bills. There's, I don't have enough to eat. And then there's, I'm spending all my money on fast food and takeout. There's a big difference. Because you don't wanna cook.

Starting point is 00:04:22 And here's the deal. Nobody's telling you, you gotta be've got to be the greatest cook in the world and all this, but you're a single mom, so we've got to take care of you and the toddler. And this is going to come down to, I think it's two things, George. One, I'm seeing there's an emotion that you're not handling very well and you're medicating the emotion with stuff and then there's the emotion of guilt or exhaustion or something along the cooking to where you go. I don't want to do it. I despise it so much that I know I'm gonna willingly blow money just to make life a little easier and by the way certainly can understand that emotion.

Starting point is 00:05:07 That's the emotion of convenience. It's hard. You're a single mom. I mean, you got a lot going on and it's a lot easier to just drop by, pick up some, some barbecue on the way home and not have to prepare it. It's already ready to go. So George, I just see there's two, I think this is an emotion issue. She needs some guardrails like you're trying to tell her, but dare I say... Get to the root of it.

Starting point is 00:05:30 Get to the root of this and really lock in on the son's twinkling of the eyes. And you feel guilty maybe because of the relationship status and his father's... I don't know what it is, and I'm not trying to read your mind. But the best advice I could give is I don't think this is a money problem. I think this is an emotion problem, and you're medicating. Okay. Yeah, I kind of feel that too, because I know that financially I'm okay. I just don't know how to stop. Do you have debt right now?

Starting point is 00:06:07 Yes, I have 13K in a personal loan and 10K in student loans. Okay. What helps me is having a goal for money instead of just it existing. And so what I want you to do is start to reframe that money and go, nope, that's not takeout money and shopping money. This is get out of debt money. And I'm gonna allocate that money beyond once my bills are paid. We're gonna prioritize our budget. So your budget's great, but it's just a plan.

Starting point is 00:06:34 If you don't follow the plan, the plan's useless. I've created workout plans that I never follow. I never actually worked out. On paper, it would work if I did it. I'd have a six pack right now, but I don't. And the same thing applies to your money. So once you start laying out your budget going, okay, I have to cover my rent, my insurance, I need to put food on the table. Beyond that, any extra money is going to go toward debt. And once I'm out of debt, you can start to loosen the reins a little bit.

Starting point is 00:07:00 Yeah. And I appreciate that, George, you're absolutely right. But Charlene, I have to challenge you. You just told us, and a lot of people listening and watching that you don't know how to stop and I think therein lies the problem. You do know how to stop. How do you stop not buying takeout? You tell me, what's the answer? You just don't. You find another avenue for food. We start meal planning and we grocery and we budget. You know, quote from Mama Camel, we have food at home.

Starting point is 00:07:34 We have food at home. I mean, this idea that I don't know how to stop, Charlene, you're a really nice person. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but that is you are acting like a victim. Like, oh, there's some mysterious thing about me. There's something wrong with me. There's something in the universe.

Starting point is 00:07:52 And you're not saying this, but I want you to sound out. You hear how silly that sounds when I say that? Mm-hmm, yeah. You're not a silly person, are you, Shirley? No. Stop acting silly. Stop today. It acting silly. Stop. Today.

Starting point is 00:08:08 It's a daily choice. George, let's give her some stuff. That's how you build discipline. Let's help her out. What can we get to her? She's in Australia. I don't know how we do this. We can still send, you know what?

Starting point is 00:08:15 I'm gonna send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Read that all the way through. Read the Margin is Breathing Room chapter. Read the Spending is Self-Control chapter. That one was written for Charlene. It's got your name on it. So hang on the line. Kelly Breathing Room chapter. Read the Spending is Self-Control chapter. That one was written for Charlene. It's got your name on it. So hang on the line.

Starting point is 00:08:27 Kelly's going to pick up. We'll get your address and get you that book. And I hope 2025 is the year you build the discipline to say no. Today's the day, Charlene. You're not a silly person. You told us all. No games. We believe you.

Starting point is 00:08:40 So stop acting silly. All right. Serious business coming up next. We'll cover your calls and George and I will discuss when do you stop saying happy new year? America and the world needs to settle this. And we will next. Hey guys, this is Jade Warshaw.

Starting point is 00:08:55 Listen, I get it. The student loan situation is bananas, but it's time to make progress, not excuses. So if your payment and interest rate have you treading water, refinancing could be the solution for you. Look, if I were in your shoes, I would contact Laurel Road today

Starting point is 00:09:12 and get a free 30 minute consultation. You'll work with a student loan expert and you'll go over your refinancing options. Hey, for refinancing to make sense, you've got to check certain boxes, like making a good income. And bottom line, Ramsey's advice is that you only refinance if you can get a lower rate or a shorter term.

Starting point is 00:09:30 Remember, the point is to pay off debt faster. Maybe you just need to keep rocking the debt snowball. But if refinancing does make sense for you, Laurel Road offers low competitive rates and interest rate discounts are available for stuff like auto pay. Listen, you can't mess around with student loans. If you want them gone, you gotta go hard.

Starting point is 00:09:48 So go to laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more and schedule your free 30 minute consultation. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. Helping you win in your life. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel and we are here for you.

Starting point is 00:10:10 Triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five, triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. Well, we're rested and relaxed. We've had a little bit of downtime and back live today here on the Ramsey show, by the way, a

Starting point is 00:10:23 beautiful and I do mean beautiful, studio audience today. Folks from all around the country joining us live here in our Ramsey Solutions World Headquarters. So fun to see them. And reminder, you can always come join us. We have free coffee, free baked goods, and all kinds of things. And love coming out and saying hi to the folks during commercial breaks. Happy New Year to you, George, and Happy New Year to our growing audience. And this begs the question because I think of these things and I could certainly be called neurotic, but I think this is a conversation that serious people want to have. And we're always helping people get free of debt,

Starting point is 00:11:06 free of toxic relationships, free of meaningless work. Okay, I think people want to be free of saying happy new year. Are we done with it as a society? Well, so today's my first day back in the office of the new year, and so I see people. I've already had a couple of meetings this morning. And the obligatory, Happy New Year!

Starting point is 00:11:27 Happy New Year! And so I asked the question for myself, but for you today, and the American people, and people watching from around the world, at what point should we stop saying, or should we feel free to stop saying it? And I think that the end of this week, the very first week of January, I think you should be free of never having to say it again.

Starting point is 00:11:55 So we're in the first week right now. When does the week end in your mind? Well, the first work week, because you're back in the professional rhythm. So we're talking Friday or Sunday? I'm going to go Friday. Okay. So Friday, end of business, no more Happy New Year. You don't have to and you shouldn't have to. Now the question then becomes what happens if you show up on Monday

Starting point is 00:12:15 and you haven't seen some of your team, which is going to be the case, and they say Happy New Year to you, do you reciprocate? I think you have to reciprocate, otherwise you're a weirdo. Yeah. I'm not gonna offer it up past week one. So you don't agree with me? Do you agree with week one? We should all stop.

Starting point is 00:12:33 Unless it's an acquaintance I haven't seen in a while and it's still within the two week window. I'm gonna give it two weeks for someone you haven't seen. Maybe it's a phone call, an email. Very nuanced, George. I just think the world we'd all be better off if we all said, week one, happy new year. After week one, can we move on?

Starting point is 00:12:52 I will say this, it doesn't bring me- I just think it makes everybody's life easier. It doesn't add any value to my life. It doesn't bring me any joy. All right, before we get to the phones, one other quick thing here, because I take issue with what you said. I would like to come in Monday,

Starting point is 00:13:06 and I told our super producer David this in a meeting, and he agrees, and he's one of the nicer people on the planet. So I tend to feel confident about this position. If someone says Happy New Year to me come Monday, I'm going to pass. I'm just going to go, hey! How you doing? Hey! I couldn't stomach the social awkwardness. Well, I think if you let it sit

Starting point is 00:13:27 and don't respond at all, it's weird. But if, just try it. Say happy new year to me like it's Monday. Hey, happy new year, Ken. Hey man, what's going on? How was the holiday? That was smooth. See?

Starting point is 00:13:37 You fooled me. But now you're asking me about the holidays. So I wanted to model this for everybody. Now you're trying to get me to go into the past. No, I'm not. Instead of moving to the future. I'm having what would be normal conversation. I don're trying to get me to go into the past. No I'm not. Instead of moving to the future. I'm having what would be normal conversation.

Starting point is 00:13:47 I don't have to respond in kind. You don't care about what happened over the holidays. I'm gonna suggest that you don't care about how happy my new year is. I would agree with that. See, we're all just saying something. Why are we saying it? That's how we exist in a society, Ken.

Starting point is 00:14:01 There it is. I hope we've set some of you free. If you see me in public. Don't say it. it on Monday and you say happy new year to me understand. I'm changing the lane. I'm changing directions I'm not gonna say it and I feel very good about it. I hope you get trolled come Monday with so many happy new years Well, here's what's great about the trolling for all you people who disagree with me and you're taking shots at me in the YouTube comments I'll never know cuz I don't look at them. I will send them to you. I will mail them to your home address. George on the other hand is in the comments. I sleep peacefully at night. I'll screenshot it, print them out, and assort them all in

Starting point is 00:14:36 an envelope. And I won't look at them. If I see a shot of text come through, George, I'm gonna I'm gonna ignore it. Wow, this guy's good. All right, here we go. Fort Myers, Florida. Aaron is on the line. Aaron how can we help? Okay hi George. I don't know if anyone wished you happy New Year yet but happy New Year. You get one more day. And one more day. You get today and tomorrow show. Don't make me hang up this phone. I'm not going to. I said I'm gonna be a man of my word. Happy New Year, Aaron. And everybody can tell I can mean that. All right, Aaron, what's the call? All righty. So my wife, she's in flight school. She has a hundred hours. She's about to get her private pilot license. She has two years left. So we

Starting point is 00:15:23 sold our house. We did the whole Ramsey thing sold our expensive cars my wife and I are driving a we have two cars but you know we have a nice 2010 Prius and you know we're trying to be smart with our money but so I have about 50,000 left in savings we bring in72,000 a year. Her flight school costs about $50,000 a year. And we had $80,000 in savings in September. So the money's going quick. And I don't know if I'm going to have to go into debt to, well, we are going to have to go into debt to continue this flight school. So you currently have enough to get through one of the years in savings.

Starting point is 00:16:07 So we're really concerned about the final year. Yes. When is the money due? Is it due exactly a year from now? So we pay as we go. It's about a grand a week. Every time she goes, she pays cash. Is there a discount for paying cash? No, there isn't. All right, so wait a second. This seems a reasonable goal. This seems very impossible

Starting point is 00:16:35 to you, doesn't it, Aaron? The way you're presenting, this feels like a mountain you can't climb. True or false? I'd say true because we went through about $20,000 in savings in September. Yeah, but you had it. You saved it. My question is, what must happen between the two of you to make the additional $50,000 above and beyond your current income? That to me is very doable. The two of you have to come up with $50,000 and you got about two years to do it or a year or so to do it. Is that right? Yes. Did I

Starting point is 00:17:14 get my math right? Is it a year or two years from now you got to have the 50? Oh so we're paying it as we go but I you know my math tells me we're gonna run out of money probably within six or seven months. But you just told me you have 50K in savings and a whole year is 50K. So you could cash flow the entire next year. And that's without saving an extra penny. So you guys can make, between the two of you, an additional $50,000 by selling something,

Starting point is 00:17:45 picking up some odd jobs, a side job. Am I right or am I wrong? Is this possible, Aaron? Yeah, so I was looking at getting another job. So I'm working 40 hours a week as an estimator for a construction company. I was looking at picking up shifts at the Olive Garden and I think I'd probably be able to bring in maybe like another grand a week doing that.

Starting point is 00:18:10 Well, that's exactly what you said you guys were cash flowing, so it's possible. It was a yes or no question. You sounded like a politician on a Sunday morning show, which I appreciate. So I'll ask again, with both of you being committed to not going into debt, which is how you've lived your life to this point, could you guys come up with the $50,000 when it's needed, yes or no? I think right now we're looking at maybe coming, I think we're, I feel like we're going to be short. But you should run for Congress, you should run for Congress. That is a fantastic avoidance of two direct questions. George, I see the balance of my time

Starting point is 00:18:49 to the gentleman from Massachusetts. Well, Eric, you're saying, I feel like, I feel like, let's put it on paper and go, we have 50 grand in the bank, we need 50 more grand one year from now. Here's what that looks like. We need a grand a week. We each need to come up with 500 bucks a week.

Starting point is 00:19:01 Here's what it's gonna take to get there. What would you do? What would your hack be? I'd go get that side job and have her get some skin in the game too, Each need to come up with $500 a week. Here's what it's going to take to get there. What would you do? What would your hack be? I'd go get that side job and have her get some skin in the game too. Also working so that we're not missing each other. I mean, they can shlup breadsticks together at Olive Garden. Hey!

Starting point is 00:19:14 Then they're together. And you're eating for free. You're eating for free. And who doesn't like the endless salad over there? I'd stick to the salad. Those breadsticks will do a number on you. Well, that's why I said the salad. You don't want the endless breadsticks or else you can't fit in the plane.

Starting point is 00:19:27 That's a problem. But we digress. Hey, it's doable. A theme already in today's show, George. What's that? People don't feel like they can. We're going to maybe have to address some feelings a little bit later. All right, we'll be right back. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Show. Don't move. This is the Ramsey Show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life.

Starting point is 00:19:48 Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so much. That's why you need a knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place. I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet divided into 15 simple categories. Plus, they've got

Starting point is 00:20:20 checklists that tell you what to add to each folder so your family won't have to guess where everything is. So start getting organized today at knockbox.com slash Ramsey. Your family will thank you. That's knockbox n ok box dot com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio by my colleague George Campbell and we're thrilled to be heresey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio by my colleague George Campbell, and we're thrilled to be here for you. 888-825-5225. You got a money question? You got a Paycheck question. I want more in my paycheck, Ken. I'm your guy, so we want you to make more money and keep more money to that in, George.

Starting point is 00:21:01 Tell people the best way to make the most of their money. What would you say? Well, you got to kind of do a the most of their money. What would you say? Well, you got to kind of do a financial audit of your life. Income, what are my expenses, and the best way to do that is through a budget. And our team created an amazing app that's free to you. Go download it. It's called Every Dollar, where you can plan your spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most, all in an easy to use app. And if you've got a spouse, they can be logged in, full accountability, transparency, and that's what it's gonna take. If you've got money goals in 2025,

Starting point is 00:21:28 I don't care what they are, the budget is the crux of controlling your money goals. So go download it for free in the app store or Google Play, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. By the way, there's all kinds of gold in the show notes. If we mentioned something and you think, oh, I didn't get that, just get to the show notes

Starting point is 00:21:47 and everything is linked there for you fine folks. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Erin is going to start us in this segment with, she's in Denver, Denver, Colorado. Erin, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. Thanks for taking my call. You bet, what's going on today? So I have a question regarding my student loans. They're serviced by Mojila and they're being mismanaged by Mojila. They're still occurring interest

Starting point is 00:22:19 when they should be at 0% and so I'm just curious if I continue to fight the battle with them to get the interest correct and reapply all these payments that they've been splitting between interest and principal. Or if I go ahead and just, I have two loans with them and I'm in a position to pay off one of the loans today. So if I just go ahead and pay that off and just continue the interest battle on the other loan sequence. Do you have this agreement in writing where it's super clear that you are indeed supposed to be at a zero percent situation right now? Yes, I have letters from Mohela dated back to July that say I'm on zero percent while the loans are in the courthouse

Starting point is 00:23:07 because I'm on the safe repayment plan. And so I will be at 0% until that court case is finalized, which currently my account states I'm in administrative forbearance until April 30th of 2025. So I've continued to make payments because 0% means 100% of my payment then goes to principal, but that's not what Mojila is doing. Yeah, I mean have you talked to somebody up the ladder there? The highest I can get is somebody that's quote an advanced agent in their resolution team. I have talked to somebody in that department

Starting point is 00:23:46 probably six times. Same person? Every time I call. No, I get a different person every time. What's the answer? What do they say to you when you tell them what you just told us? They say, oh yes, we see that and we'll get this six and seven to 10 days. And this has literally been going on since July. How much interest is there in talk specialty? How much money is on the line here? Total between the two loans, two dates, it's $1,800. Okay. And how long have you been fighting this?

Starting point is 00:24:18 How many hours have you spent? That's my thing. Like it's, I'm on the phone at least two to three hours every time I call between like whole times and actually speaking with someone. This was my gut. And then I'm circling back. Was that Erin is worth more than the time she's spending

Starting point is 00:24:34 and the brain calories she's burning for this. I would be done with it. You said you have the cash to pay off one. We'll fight it on the back end and they'll write you a check if you wanna continue fighting it. And I hope they do resolve it and they'll write you a check if you wanna continue fighting it. And I hope they do resolve it and they'll write you a check for the difference

Starting point is 00:24:48 that you were owed. But I would be done with it. I'd pay off both loans if you can today. Attack it with everything you got. Yeah, unfortunately I can't, I'm not in a position to pay off the second one. It's just under 60,000, but I am in a position to pay off the smaller one.

Starting point is 00:25:03 Are they gonna do the same kind of garbage to you on the $60,000? They are doing the same thing. So I'm, I'm, every time I call, I'm fighting them about both loans. Are you in control of, of when the payments are happening? So currently, yes. Currently, I actually don't have to make any payment. So what I have been doing is sending money aside into my high interest savings account until I got to position to a, either the loans had came up had, were going to come out of the 0%. And then I would dump everything on the principal or till I had enough time, enough in the savings to pay off the loan in full.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Because that's coming directly from Mojiva, because they're telling me every time I make a payment, it's a consolidated loan. So they look at those loans as being one loan, even though they're two separate, like subsidized versus unsubsidized. So they'll proportionately split my payment. Can you go in manually and apply money to the principal on one of them? Nope.

Starting point is 00:26:11 They tell me I can, but on their website, I cannot. And if I call to ask them to do that, it is still the same system. Like this Mojila system is broken. I'd like to get the CEO on the line. That's what I mean. These two loan companies are inept. Sis, this is on purpose. They're malicious at worst That's what I want to do. I mean, these two loan companies are inept. This is on purpose.

Starting point is 00:26:26 They're malicious at worst, they're inept at best. I say malicious. You're gonna spend more in attorney fees trying to fight this than you should be owed an interest. So I just don't think it's worth the fight. I would aggressively pay these down. I wouldn't even wait till you have all the money in full. I would just start putting all the money you can

Starting point is 00:26:42 on the principal every single month until it's gone. Okay, so even though they're gonna continue to make the payment applied to principal and interest? Well, the faster you pay the principal down, the less interest you're gonna pay. Right, the less interest. And so if you just let it sit and they're charging interest, it's gonna be worse.

Starting point is 00:26:59 George, I disagree with you on this one. Not about paying it off, but I would fight this. The reason these people do this is because enough people put up with it. And Erin, I'm not in any way casting judgment on you. I'm saying every time you get somebody on the phone, I would take their name down. Yes. I would take their name and ID number. And I would tell them I'm recording the conversation. And then the next time I talk to somebody, I say, now listen, this is what's happened.

Starting point is 00:27:26 I've documented all this. How many times has this happened? I've been lied to. And I am gonna hold you personally accountable. Do you wanna be held accountable for this? Cause I'm recording this. And whatever you got, I would get very, very serious about this

Starting point is 00:27:41 because they play this game to wear people like you out. And I wouldn't quit fighting because George, here's the deal. If she does that, she's going to keep getting ripped off. She should not be paying one cent of interest via the agreement. And I wouldn't just throw it away. These people need to be dealt with. And the CEO of this, she needs to go public. You know what I would do? I would go to, is this a Canadian company? Oh no, sorry, Denver, you're in Denver, I'm sorry. I'm looking at- I'm in Denver, so this-

Starting point is 00:28:12 Go to the local media. The local media is based out of Missouri. Go to the local media. They love this stuff. Local media. I'd call every one of them, their hotline. I'd go, I'm getting ripped off, and I represent, I would make a stink out of this

Starting point is 00:28:26 They do not want bad publicity. I've contacted legislators and the Colorado Attorney General's office. Forget them. They're worthless. I can absolutely contact news stations. I would go social media and I would go I would publish it all and I'd go to the news You got to fight these people George. The other piece of this, Aaron, that I would go, I would publish it all and I'd go to the news. You gotta fight these people, George. The other piece of this, Aaron, that I would personally do, I would be researching all over the internet in Reddit threads, I just looked them up.

Starting point is 00:28:51 This is not just happening to you, it's happening to a lot of other people. I would see, are there people who are getting resolution? What is being done? Who can I contact? And there's power in numbers and power in other people's experiences. So I would be doing a lot of homework to figure out how to get to the bottom of this.

Starting point is 00:29:06 But at the same time, I don't want it just consuming every fiber of your being for the next six months. I agree with that, but you can take it up several notches. But I am Mr. customer service. I am Mr. I'd like to speak to the manager. So I get it. I'd like to speak to the CEO. That's what I'd like. It's kind of reminds me of that scene from Christmas vacation where cousin Eddie goes and gets the CEO in his pajamas Oh, yeah, puts a bow around and brings him to the living room to answer for the jelly of the month club This is that's what happens in movies. This is Aaron can't do that. No, no, but this is wrong

Starting point is 00:29:40 It's like trying to talk to the Wizard of Oz. Sorry, Aaron. I wouldn't quit fighting I don't I don't think we should let big companies steal from we the people and they're stealing from you. This is wrong. Oh my gosh. All right. Quick. The American way.

Starting point is 00:29:55 We gotta fight, Ken. Can I get a quick little, what's the pill I like to chew when I get into this? A Tums. A Tums. I'm gonna take a Tums. Antacid for Ken. On behalf of you the people, I'll calm myself. We'll be ready to answer more questions coming up. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Starting point is 00:31:19 f-a-i-r-w-i-n-d-s dot org The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Campbell. The phone number is 888-825-5225. We're answering your questions about your money and that includes how do I keep it, how do I budget, how do I get out of debt, how do I make more money? George and I are combining on all those fun topics today for you. includes how do I keep it, how do I budget, how do I get out of debt, how do I make more money. George and I are combining on all those fun topics today for you. Alright, today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi.

Starting point is 00:31:52 If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see a way out, good news, you might need WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan built for you. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter why, r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lucas in Oregon. I was in the medical field for five years. I left that job to help my dad with his company and take care of my mom who is sick.

Starting point is 00:32:26 My mom ended up passing away and I've stayed at my dad's company for three years. Recently, my former boss called and made me a great offer to come back. What do I do? I'm currently making 60K with my father, but his company isn't stable and we're trying our best to get it profitable again.

Starting point is 00:32:41 If I went back to my former position, I'd be making $72,000. I just bought a house and need stable income, but how do I leave my dad? I've really helped his company." Well Lucas, this is a heavy question and just reading it feels heavy to me and I'm not walking this out. So I certainly feel bad for you in that this is a tough decision, but I think it's a clear decision. Clear decisions aren't always easy, and this is a clear decision that's really tough. And what I mean by that is, I think it's very obvious that you should go back to your former

Starting point is 00:33:18 employer. You enjoyed the job. They've given you a great offer. Your words, not mine. And you only left them to help Dad out. You've helped Dad out tremendously. But it's not your responsibility to run Dad's company. It's not your responsibility to grow Dad's company. You're going to have to do what is best for you. If you do not, you will resent your dad, even though he's done nothing wrong in this situation.

Starting point is 00:33:47 So I think you asked the question, how do I leave my dad? I think you leave him with respect. I think you leave him with clarity, and I think you leave him with confidence. If you can achieve those three things, then what will be a tough decision will be less tough. In other words, I'm going to leave with respect and honor. I'm going to treat him very, very well.

Starting point is 00:34:15 I am going to be super clear with him as to why and when and how. And I think, again, that will then allow you to be confident that you are in fact doing the right thing, George. So that's, I don't know what you wanna add to that, but please do. That's a tough situation. The red flag's with dad's company. Cause Lucas says, hey, I've been there for three years

Starting point is 00:34:36 and I've really helped his company, and yet we're trying our best to get it profitable again. That's scary. That might mean that this business has some serious flaws that you can't fix if it's been three years. And so if it's unstable, you're putting your own family in jeopardy by staying here and you're leaving on the table a 20% pay raise with a more stable company. So it's not to say this is a forever move. Maybe he gets it profitable again and five years from now you step back in or one day you take it over. Who knows? Might be doing him a favor but yeah in this season my dad

Starting point is 00:35:06 realizing we shouldn't try to keep this afloat he needs to get someone who can help this business or he needs to figure it out and I don't think you're the secret sauce there might be a savior complex going I'm the one who needs to save this and with mom passing that adds a whole nother element of you know trying to stick together with the family but I think it like you said Ken it's gonna lead to resentment. Lucas, thank you for the question. We really believe in you,

Starting point is 00:35:28 and you gotta do what's best for you on that, and that ends up being best for everybody, is what I have found. All right, Ontario, Canada is where we go next, and Emily is there. Emily, how can we help? Hi guys, how's it going? Can you hear me?

Starting point is 00:35:40 Yes, we can hear you well. Yes, so I was overpaid about $6,000, and since it's over a certain amount, I'm unable to repay it in full, and they're only giving me the option to garnish my wages. Should I put the $6,000 towards debt repayment, or should I store it in a high-yield savings account until it's time to get my wages garnished? When will the wages be garnished and how much per month or per paycheck? I have no idea. I actually have a colleague who's in a similar spot and she's been waiting about a year for

Starting point is 00:36:09 those wages to be garnished. And I don't know how much. It's usually between 10 and 20 percent of the paycheck. Okay. And will you be able to still accomplish your budget with 80 to 90 percent of your take home pay? I think so. Or your net pay? Yeah, right now I'm putting almost everything extra

Starting point is 00:36:30 onto debt repayment, so I would just have to scale that back a little bit, but I am living far below my means. Okay, so it's either I pay off the debt faster now, knowing that it'll slow down later when the wages are garnished. Right. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you're not in a situation where you're going to owe six grand all at once,

Starting point is 00:36:48 which puts you in jeopardy if you don't have the money. So I'm okay with using this money to expedite your goals, knowing that I'm going to need to ratchet down my budget later on. Okay, that sounds good. I really needed the reassurance. Yeah. What's your total debt you're trying to pay off? Yeah. I really needed the reassurance. Yeah, what's your total debt you're trying to pay off? Yeah, so I have 24,000 on my car

Starting point is 00:37:07 and I have 210 in a mortgage. Okay. So just really the car is your consumer debt? Yes. And this will get it down to 18,000 and then how quickly can you pay it off at that point? My New Year's resolution. So I'm trying to get it paid off by next December.

Starting point is 00:37:23 I really think if I buckle down, I can do it. So one year? Yes. Okay. I see where you're going George. Emily, do you see what we're coming up with here on this plan? If you can knock the 18 out in one year, and we believe you can, love that that's your resolution. Now all of a sudden, let's say it takes a year for them to start garnishing, what's that car payment that you're paying right now? every month Right now I'm putting $1,000 on the car. However, I just thought like I moved into a duplex that I purchased I just signed a tenant and I'm getting 1,600 additionally

Starting point is 00:37:58 So that will all be rolling over onto the car as well, right? But my point is what I'm trying to make the case I love what you're doing and what George said because by the time they start to garnish you're gonna still be a heck. You freed up a payment. You freed up a huge amount of money to where you're not even gonna feel the garnish. So we love that plan. Okay. Yep. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. Really fun. Let's see, Simon in Boston, Massachusetts is next. Simon, how can we help? Hi, I'm a 22 year old. I'm debt free. I just recently graduated from college and I have a job I really like so far in the data field at a big tech company. And I essentially want to figure out how to make sure I'm putting my money in the right

Starting point is 00:38:46 places and being smart with my money. All right, Uncle George. I love this. I feel like this is right up your alley. Well, it's so much more fun, Simon, when you're debt-free and this money can go toward building your future instead of paying for the past. Exactly. So I love that you're thinking like this at 22 instead of how do I upgrade my life now

Starting point is 00:39:05 that I'm in my big boy job? Instead you're going, hey, I want to make sure I make the most of this and don't blow it. And so that's where the budget is going to come in handy. And so you're going to list out your income. Do you know what your income will be? Yeah. So I'm about four months into it right now.

Starting point is 00:39:20 The base pay, this is all pre-tax, is 78K a year. And then I never know whether to kind of include this or not, but there should be a 7,800 bonus around April. Awesome. Well, you'll include that in April's budget. Okay. And when that happens, you can apply it to your next goal. That might be for you getting your emergency fund in place.

Starting point is 00:39:45 Do you have three to six months of expenses saved up right now? Yeah, I've got about 17,000 just in my bank account. Let's go. Okay, and then are you investing right now in the company retirement plan? Yeah, so right now I kind of have it at 10% because I just don't want to throw too much money

Starting point is 00:40:04 and then I'm planning to move out in the next couple months. So I don't want to have nothing ready for that. And that will be into a rental probably around $1,800, $1,900 a month. Okay. I would ratchet that up to 15%. You make amazing money with no debt. So you're going to have no problem finding more margin to throw toward maybe a down payment

Starting point is 00:40:26 for a savings account there. But that's gonna be your key. I would have a focus goal, and for you that might be that down payment on a house. Would you agree that's the next goal once you're investing? Yeah, I mean, I don't really know what kind of, where I wanna move permanently, but I definitely would like to invest in real estate as well at some point. That'll come later. Right now I want you to find a

Starting point is 00:40:48 primary residence as you get older and it's gonna take a lot of money, especially in the Boston area, so I would sock it away, hang on the line, I'm gonna send you every dollar premium, our budgeting app, for free so that you can get started and make a plan for this. But he's on his, he's on the waken. This is on his way. Way to go Simon. Simon says, how do I stack some cash? I didn't think of the Simon Says reference. I was there for you. Good hour.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Don't move, more AMS show coming up. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year, it's starting to get a little bit colder, it's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just wanna stay inside and get cozy and for me my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets watching a movie sitting by the fire

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Starting point is 00:42:10 Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in,

Starting point is 00:42:45 triple 8, 825-5225, triple 8, 825-5225. Happy New Year to everybody. We're only gonna say that, George and I, for two more days. One day only. And then you're gonna have to get over it. We won't be on the show tomorrow,

Starting point is 00:42:57 so we'll see what happens tomorrow. So this is kind of your day to say happy New Year and get a response. Because next week when we're on, if we're on together, not happening. You're not hearing it. Not hearing it. We're done with it. Maybe happy Tuesday. Yeah, I'll do that. I like that better. All right, let's get it started. Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona, where Kelly is waiting. Kelly, happy new year. How can we help? Happy new year, guys. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. What's happening? My question is where would a mastectomy reversal fit in

Starting point is 00:43:29 on the baby steps? I've looked into my insurance and my fiance's and neither one covered it. It's going to be about $10,000 and we do have consumer debt, obviously not working that together at the moment, waiting until we get married, but just kind of wanting to plan. Do we pause that and stock up the money because we want to start a family or what would be best? How much debt do you guys have separately? about 15,000 and he has about 50. Oof. And I'm assuming he's in agreement with this reverse vasectomy? Yes. Oh boy. I gotta tell you, that's a good dude. How old is he? How old is this guy? He's 42 and I'm 33, so I'm a little bit older too, so we're not wanting to wait. So time is of the essence.

Starting point is 00:44:29 That was my next question. So now I see why you're trying to do this quickly. Yes. Well, not the procedure. We want this doctor to be steady and slow on that one. Take your time. On behalf of every dude who's listening and watching this call right now, ewww. The next question is who's paying for it?

Starting point is 00:44:47 Yeah. Well, they are. They're going to wait until they get married. Like together? Yeah, we're going to wait until we get married. Okay, when is that? At the end of the summer. Okay.

Starting point is 00:44:57 So, we'll call it, and are you wanting to immediately, you know, try to have a family at that point? That's kind of the plan. I'm a little nervous, just not for the financial aspect, but for the medical risks involved with the procedure. But he's talked to his doctor and is willing and all in. So yeah, we're going to want to start as soon as possible. Okay.

Starting point is 00:45:22 And how old are you? I'm 33. Okay, so because this is a financial question, and I know George is more than ready to answer this, but I feel like we've got to have a real conversation for a second. There's no guarantee that it's going to work, and I'm sure you guys know the medical percentages of it happening, but there's no guarantee.

Starting point is 00:45:44 There's also no guarantee that even if the procedure goes fantastic, that you guys are gonna be able to conceive in the timeline that you would like. You acknowledge this, yes or no? Yes. And so I don't wish that on anybody. I mean, I want everything to work in the timeline, but it has to be discussed when we start talking

Starting point is 00:46:06 about a $10,000 bill, and you know we don't want you to go into debt. So George, I bring this up to say, I think I want to make the best financial move, period, for this couple, not the best way to figure out how to pay for this procedure, which may or may not yield what they want it to. Yeah, I mean, there's risk there, for sure. Does that change? I guess my point is, I'm asking you a question on behalf of Kelly.

Starting point is 00:46:34 Does that change your advice? I may have a different take than you. My take is that if this is, I mean, this is a very unique situation, so I'm not going to say this is blanket advice for anyone who called in, but for Kelly, I would say, let's pause the baby steps and let's both stack up as much cash as we can, make sacrifices needed, make minimum payments on the debts until we're married, we have the money to do the surgery and the reversal,

Starting point is 00:46:58 and then we'll push play on the baby steps. All right, that's your take, huh? That's my take. I mean, this is, you know, starting a family that kind of supersedes the baby steps. If this was, let's say, you know, IVF or something like that, Dave would say, hey, let's pause the steps and let's save up to pay for this in cash. The goal, the A1 is not going to more debt. A2 is payoff existing debt.

Starting point is 00:47:20 Well, we do, George, we do make $165,000 combined, so it shouldn't take more than three months. So what if we aggressively said we're going to save up the 10K and then pay off all of our debt before we're even married? Well, but then does that change your timeline, Kelly? We have a two-part question there. What's your answer? Yeah. change her timeline. Kelly, we have a two-part question there. What's your answer? Yeah, I mean we can't, our finances obviously aren't combined and we are both working them separately. So he has, you know, a second job as well. I am

Starting point is 00:47:56 working towards that as well. So I mean it's possible that we might be able to knock out a lot of it in the next six months. Well, now there's a total goal of, obviously it's not combined because you're not married, but we're looking at $75,000 paid off in, let's call it seven or eight months. Mm-hmm. So collectively, can we be throwing 10 grand a month at these debts?

Starting point is 00:48:19 That might look, you're throwing four, he's throwing six, whatever. But the goal is, can we be debt-free with money in the bank to pay for this? Yeah. By the time the, and you gotta pay for a wedding, right? Is this a small courthouse situation? Or is this lavish?

Starting point is 00:48:33 Yeah, it's gonna be a small. Yeah, what's the calendar on this? Courthouse and then he's in the doctor's office the next week? Like no honeymoon, straight to the emergency. It feels like what I'm hearing. Am I right, Kelly? Or tell me if I'm wrong.

Starting point is 00:48:47 No, so it would be like an elopement situation where it would be a five-day wedding slash honeymoon and then come back. And then when is he going under the knife again? Well, he has to meet with a specialist, a urologist, but he's talked to his general doctor about it and they see no problems with his age or the reversal, but they want him to go to the urologist to get it scheduled. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 00:49:14 So we're on the same page. No reason for debt. I'm tweaking my advice though. I'm going to rescind it and go, let's attack this debt and then we're going to be able to save up for the surgery within a month at that point once we're married. I am in agreement with that George. I was going to go not, I mean it's not that I disagree with you and Dave on the family first but it's like, can we wait a little bit?

Starting point is 00:49:34 Can we get married? Can we, you know what I mean, before we start putting this pressure on ourselves to get pregnant that- Yeah, we're not talking about waiting two years. We're talking about waiting a month or two. Yeah, at max. Something like that. I just, that's, A, it's all cash, Kelly, of course.

Starting point is 00:49:47 You guys don't need to go into debt for this. But to George's point, you could pause the baby steps in his plan, but I don't think we need to do that. I think you guys can knock the debt out and cashflow this procedure. The reason I like putting the debt first is it puts fuel on this debt-free journey because now you have a much deeper why.

Starting point is 00:50:05 And when you have that deeper why, you're willing to take on that second job, you're willing to do the extra shift because you want to get to that surgery and get to having that family. So what we want for you, Kelly, is debt-free and baby on the way. That's what we want and I think that's what you want.

Starting point is 00:50:20 Is he on board for all this? Yep. This is a good dude. Yep, he's great. Listen, all you had to say was he's 42 and he's gonna go get a reverse vasectomy and this is a good man. This is a good man.

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Starting point is 00:52:18 That's ramsysolutions.com slash store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. Triple 8, 825-5225 is the number to call in. You got a question about saving some money, getting out of debt. How about making more money in that paycheck? Well you got the guys today to help you out with that. Thrilled to take your call. Triple 8, 825-5225. All right, George, do you have a bit of a real estate prediction as we start the new year? What do you think about the housing market?

Starting point is 00:52:51 What do you think? Do you pay attention to it at all? Yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster. I thought things would kind of just start trending nicely. You know, we're gonna see rates start to continue dipping slowly, but it's been a little bit, whoop, it's back up, whoop, all right, it's down a little bit, whoop.

Starting point is 00:53:04 So I think we're gonna see more of the same in 2025. Not a... I think over time, we it's been a little bit of whoop, it's back up, whoop, all right, it's down a little bit, whoop. So I think we're going to see more of the same in 2025. I think over time we're going to see a dip, but I think in the meantime it'll be a little bit of a rocky road. Okay, all right. I'm reading some stuff where some people think it's going to be a good year. I think it'll be good. It shouldn't take longer than we would like it to. Okay, all right. Well, that's why we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. That's right, it's called Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. That's right, it's called Ramsey's Real Estate Homebase. This is the place with all the tools and resources you need, whether you're buying or selling, George.

Starting point is 00:53:32 And half the battle is confidence, if you're buying or selling, so that you're making good decisions, you're gonna find things like calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, even a video course, all with practical, easy-to articles, a podcast, a book, even a video course, all with practical, easy to follow steps so that you can navigate through buying or selling.

Starting point is 00:53:50 If you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals with peace of mind, go to ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. Super easy to remember, ramsysolutions.com slash real estate. Or click the link in our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or via your favorite podcast and again all the stuff we tell you about if you go I didn't hear what he said show notes My two favorite words George. It's where you get everything that we talk about. You don't have to stress. All right Let's get back to the phones Raleigh, North Carolina is where Ryan sits and waits for us Ryan. How can we help? Hey, how can we help?

Starting point is 00:54:27 Hey, how you doing today? Oh, we're doing well. What's going on? I've got two, well, I got a main point and a question for you. My main point is my wife and I got married in May and we are debt free. We paid off 65 grand in less than 12 months. Congratulations, man. That is big time.

Starting point is 00:54:46 Yeah. Yeah. Super happy about that. God is good. And FPU definitely helped us. Love to hear it. And what's the question? Yeah. So we're just a bit concerned about my mother. She's 69. She has about $4,000 in retirement, so you know, not a whole lot. And we're just a bit concerned about, you know, doing things the biblical way, honoring the Lord, honoring her. You know, when my grandparents pass, she's not gonna really have a whole lot left from them. So, you know, we are kind of preparing ourselves for the financial burden of maybe having to

Starting point is 00:55:36 take care of her. And you know, it's not that we don't want to, we definitely want to help her out, but you know, what exactly advice would you, would you give to us? You know, we've, we try to get her FPU, she doesn't really seem too interested in that. So what advice would you give us? Does she have debt? Luckily, she does not have, I think maybe, she has maybe like one credit card that's got like maybe $300 on it. Other than that, no. Does she own her home?

Starting point is 00:56:06 No, she doesn't. She rents. And does she have any kind of income? Outside of, give us the whole income situation. That would be if she's taking Social Security or not, any other kind of pensions, and then a job. What's her income look like? Yeah, so she has social security and then she takes that and then she also substitute teachers, but a recent kind of job event has maybe ruled that out. So we're trying to encourage her to just get like any job. She has a college degree. She could go be a bank teller, but she's very picky about what she wants to do, and you know, so she's not very encouraged to go find a new job. What's her Social Security benefit payment?

Starting point is 00:57:01 I think it's between 12 and 16. Is that enough to cover her bills? Barely. Did she ask you for your help? Your advice? Not really. So you know every now and then she'll ask me for money. Do you give it to her? Yeah, it's my mom, man. Yeah, I do. How often is she asking and how much? I would say probably once a month and, you know, anything I can do, whether it's an extra 20 or

Starting point is 00:57:35 Why would I get a job when I have Ryan? Yeah. He's the best part-time job out there. I get to sit at home and I ask him for money and he sends the check. Do you see what's happening here? That's a good point. You're not helping her, you're enabling her. And while I'm with you, it's great to, let's respect, honor our mother and father, it doesn't mean we enable them

Starting point is 00:57:57 and continue to let them have, you know, live lives that are of misbehavior. So the truth is you can't, I wish we could change people because I know you love your mom and it's a very honorable thing to want to do, but I would not fund her retirement and go, well, mom, don't worry about it, we got you.

Starting point is 00:58:13 We'll sacrifice our own financial future since you didn't prepare at all. And if you're gonna give her money, it's gotta be a gift, which it has been so far, but there's no good future here. What if she lives to be 99 for the next 30 years, you're just funding her misbehavior? Yeah, it's not good. And we gotta look at the long-term future, not just how do we help her in the next year.

Starting point is 00:58:38 And so we're gonna have to let her experience some pain so that she actually wants to make some changes. Well, if she still has her health. Is she healthy? Yes, she's actually no medications, great health. I think this is... You called us, if it were me, I'd have a sit down with mom and I'd do exactly what George just said. I would say it to her and you've got to be very respectful but say, Mom, I realize because I love you so much,

Starting point is 00:59:07 because of all you've done for me, I've been enabling you, and I can't do this. And I'm afraid I'm going to resent you, and you are in a situation where financially, you will become a massive burden for me, and that's not how I want you to end, and I don't want the next season of our life to be this. I think this is a real honest, but very respectful conversation to say, I don't think you want I want you to end, and I don't want the next season of our life to be this. I think this is a real honest

Starting point is 00:59:25 but very respectful conversation to say, I don't think you wanna be this to us, and I don't want this because I want the time that we have left with you to be about relationship and honor, not resentment and burden. And I think that's the conversation you've gotta have. She may not respond well, may not like it, but you've got to do this for you.

Starting point is 00:59:46 Cause I'll tell you the person we haven't discussed on this call that I'm thinking about the most and that's your wife. This thing gets really sour pretty quick between the two of you because you, by enabling your mom, put your wife in a really, really tough situation that she didn't ask for. And I'm telling you, as a guy who's been married a long time, I'm

Starting point is 01:00:11 telling you you're not thinking about that. So I'm trying to be kind of that older bro right now and say this thing is not only could create a wedge of resentment between you and your mom, even worse, a wedge of resentment between you and your wife. And I hope this is a wake-up call for you. Have a respectful but very clear conversation, George, to where mom knows now there's a new reality and she's got to do something about it. Has you talked to your wife about this?

Starting point is 01:00:39 What does she think? Yeah, we've talked about it. She definitely doesn't like it at all. And so that's why I'm trying to figure out. That would be the only reason I need to say, okay, if you're not comfortable with this, we're not doing it. She's going to have to rely on the government for the rest of her life and make peace with her decisions. George, in 30 seconds, what would you say to him about the fact that mom's only got $4,000, she needs to get a job, what is she doing on that retirement play?

Starting point is 01:01:10 Let's say she's healthy. Yeah. What would your advice be? She needs to work as long as she's physically able to create as much income as possible, save as much as she can of that income, get an emergency fund in place, invest as much as she can, because compound interest, you know, she could live a better life than if she does nothing. She's not going to have a wild retirement, but we need to paint Because compound interest, you know, she could live a better life than if she does nothing. She's not going to have a wild retirement,

Starting point is 01:01:27 but we need to paint the picture of, hey mom, here's what the next 10, 20 years looks like if you continue down this path. Another follow-up question, what do you think about long-term care, given that she's healthy now? Well, she can't afford it, it's the problem. Well, but if she works, she can.

Starting point is 01:01:40 Yes, no, you don't think so? Maybe, yeah, I think it'll be pretty expensive for her. She can look into it, but it might be out of of the out of that something that he may look at. Oh It might be hey mom be with God and the government Medicare is gonna and Medicaid's gonna have to take care of wow All right, good. I don't know that's in the it's in the carts. I gotta run quick break be right back with more recalls This is the Ramsey show Hey y'all, it's Rachel Cruz. Just about everything costs more these days and unfortunately, healthcare is no exception.

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Starting point is 01:02:37 health care provider, CHM is an affordable option that aligns with your values and makes it possible for your family to save on health care. Plus, you can join at any time, including open enrollment. You guys, CHM has been helping Ramsey fans for 15 years, and they're the only health cost sharing provider endorsed by Ramsey. So, you can trust CHM to take care of you like we would. Programs start as low as $98 a month. So find out more and join today at chministries.org slash budget, that's chministries.org slash budget. Are you determined to get out of debt and build wealth this new year?

Starting point is 01:03:16 Then don't leave out an important step, which is having the right insurance. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get by with minimal coverage or no coverage at all. Because when Murphy comes knocking and he will, you'll start backsliding further into debt if you don't have the money to pay for it and if you don't have the right insurance. So take our insurance coverage checkup. We make it easy with a free tool that helps you find out if you have all of your bases covered. To check

Starting point is 01:03:37 it out go to ramsaysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash checkup. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Happy New Year America. So excited you're with us. Triple 8, 825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. You got a question about your budget. You got a question about your debt. Not enough check left over at the end of the month. Boy, oh boy, do you have the two guys you need today. George is going to help you manage the money and I'm going to help you make more money. That's our goal. So give us a shout. 888-825-5225. Zach starts us off right now in Salt Lake City. Zach, how can we help?

Starting point is 01:04:15 Hi, yeah. So my wife and I have been kind of mulling over a decision that we're, we've been trying to decide whether or not to move is kind of what we're looking at. So I currently, uh, bring in probably about 130 if thousand between two different revenue streams. Um, and the salary from one of them sits at about 80 K and there's an opportunity, a couple opportunities. I have to bump that up to about a hundred K a year. The issue is we're still in baby step two. We still have about 90 K to pay down. And if we did make this move, uh, to this new job, it required me to move. Um,

Starting point is 01:05:07 and we're just not sure if we should do that because we don't necessarily want to get out of the home that we already own. Um, and we know that even if we did sell it, we most likely would not have the ability to purchase a home wherever we move to. We'd probably either have to rent it out or just. Yeah. Okay. So it makes a lot of sense. And by the way, really mature because I think the traditional response,

Starting point is 01:05:35 the human response to a job offer with more money is to go, well, I feel like I gotta take it because I'm an idiot. I'm a moron. I mean, crazy. Not to take a big bump like that. And I think you're probably feeling some of that and that's very natural. But for you to say, well, I'm not sure we wanna make that move. I think that's mature.

Starting point is 01:05:52 I only have one other question on this one that I think would make it fairly obvious to me. If you were to take the new job and let's put the extra bump in salary aside, would that put you on the ladder that you eventually want to be at the top of? In other words, does it fast-forward your ultimate professional goals?

Starting point is 01:06:11 Yeah, it moves me in the right direction for sure. I work in IT, and this would bump me more into like a network engineer versus just like network admin. So kind of a move in the right direction for me as far as career path. Well, then I would consider that more than I would, man, we really like our current house. Now that's me. And I think George, you can make the case and I'm bringing you in, you could make the case and I said it was mature to go, I'm not sure we want to leave this community.

Starting point is 01:06:42 I'm not sure we want to leave this community. I'm not sure we want to leave this house. I think that's also, George, equally something to consider. Just the kin answer I would always lean towards. I want to move up the ladder. If I've got a good opportunity and I've got to give something up. John Maxwell, my former boss, legendary leadership guru, said you've got to give up to go up. And so the question is, Zach,

Starting point is 01:07:07 what are you willing to give up to go up? The Ken answer, and I'm gonna see that to you, George, my answer is I'm gonna give up the comfortable home, the zip code, the friends and family. That was my question is how great is your life in Salt Lake and what would it be like where you're gonna move to? Would you be miserable in this new area? Is cost of living any different?

Starting point is 01:07:29 No. Family, you know, as you weigh those pieces, because here's the thing, there's gonna be a nice, you're gonna find your new dream home wherever you move to, eventually. It may be a year from now when you rent for a year, and you go, wow, that was a fun adventure,

Starting point is 01:07:42 so I don't wanna make a long-term decision just based on, well, I like the home we're in. So where would you be moving? Right. We have a couple options, because it would be for government contract work. So I could either go north about an hour and a half from where we're at, and I'm not going to drive two hours each way. That just doesn't make sense to me. No. north about an hour and a half from where we were at and I'm not gonna you

Starting point is 01:08:05 know drive two hours each way that doesn't make sense to me no so you'd be moving other option would be moving there or there are some options and opportunities with the same employer to go out to like the Kentucky like Southern Indiana area what does your wife think about this? She's on board for moving. She's been wanting to get out of our town home for a while now. Well, you buried the lead, man. Happy wife, happy life. You said, I love my home. Your wife says, I hate this home. Well, we both wanted to get out. It's just the financial...

Starting point is 01:08:39 So you don't like this home. You said, I like the home we're in. You like the price point of the house you're in. But we like the payment. There we go. But you got George here. George is Mr. Budget Guy. By the way, how does this not make sense to make more money? We're talking about a $20,000 bump in your main salary. You still got the opportunity to make extra money on the side as well, like you are now, correct?

Starting point is 01:09:04 Yes. George, help them out. And if you're making more money and moving to a lower cost of living area, you're going to get more house. So you could get a better house for the same price for the one you're living in. You're scared of the unknown. If you move to Kentucky, for example. You're scared of the unknown.

Starting point is 01:09:20 Just go to Indiana or Kentucky and do a weekend visit. Yes. And go look at housing housing spend a couple hours tonight On one of those real estate sites. I love these things They you can type in literally the area zip code and it'll show everything about these these apps. It's amazing There's a website you type in a zip code. It'll show you That's not what I always say I was trying not to endorse anybody I appreciate that I've got my personal favorite you saw me pull the plane up a little bit there starts with an R yeah I like it it's good

Starting point is 01:09:52 information though my point is in the comfort of your home tonight by the fire start you guys could start looking at real houses and real prices in these areas where you could go work this is is the thing. You're scared to death of the unknown, and the answer to that is go get some answers. Are they covering any relocation expenses? This particular employer wouldn't, and I guess that leads me to a follow-up question. Should we keep the place we currently have and rent it out?

Starting point is 01:10:24 No. We thought about that? Don't do that? Just sell it? No. You don't want to be a long-distance landlord. That's our position across the board. Okay.

Starting point is 01:10:33 It always sounds like a good idea in theory until you have to deal with the reality of it. And I love Dave's philosophy on this. He goes, if you lived in Kentucky, would you go searching for a rental property for a town home in Salt Lake City? The answer is no. So therefore, let's get rid of it. We're holding onto it for the wrong reasons.

Starting point is 01:10:53 And you need that money to then roll into your next house. Where did scared Zach about the new house payment go? Now he's a real estate guru. Yeah, now you're a real estate baron. What's going on? You're all over the place. Yeah, no,'re a real estate baron. What's going on? You're all over the place. Yeah, no, I get it. We're having some fun.

Starting point is 01:11:10 We've just been mulling this over for a while. Trust me, we're having a good time. If you take the offer and you're going to make the move and they're not covering any moving expenses, then we'll pause the baby steps, stack up cash until we make the move and we settle in. Then we'll hit play again. And making at that point 150K,

Starting point is 01:11:26 you're gonna knock out your debt faster and you'll likely have a home eventually. Maybe you rent for a little while and just put that money from the profits and savings and you'll get a home a year from now. Once you've settled in, figure out the neighborhoods, schools, all that good stuff. Yeah, I gotta tell you, George and I are in full agreement.

Starting point is 01:11:42 The two judges here on the panel, move or not move, move or stay, we say move. This is a no-brainer. I think this is what your heart wants, am I right? Yeah, we wanna get out, we wanna home for our kids to be able to throw up. Bro, this is a no-brainer. The studio audience is just waiting for you to make this decision. They're gonna be throwing rocks at the glass here in a second. They're going to throw rocks at the glass if you keep asking questions about this. This is a no-brainer.

Starting point is 01:12:09 You know what? You've done a very good job of thinking through everything, but you're overthinking now. You know? Okay. Do it. You guys have been so smart. If you get off the phone and say, hey babe, we're moving, I'm taking the offer, would she be stoked?

Starting point is 01:12:22 Yeah, I think she'd be happy with it. We'd be both very happy with it. It's a little ways away from family, which, you know, gives us her some pause. That's her biggest thing. Mine was the money part, but she'd be totally on board. She wants the news. Is she near you right now? Are you guys in the same house or building?

Starting point is 01:12:43 Are you separate? No, she's at home. I'm actually at work right now. All right, my friend. Listen, I'm putting you on hold. Zach's on the clock. Zach, you're on the clock. Call her right now and say, hey, listen, I just talked to these two, Nitwits, and they think we should move.

Starting point is 01:13:00 And she's going to be thrilled. It's going to be okay. That's why they make planes to fly and see family. All right, don't move. Good work there, George. Yeah, you're nit and I'm wit. You feel good about yourself? Yeah. I think I get to be wit. Nit and wit. I like that. That's good. All right. Quick break. We'll be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. All right. Let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Starting point is 01:13:33 Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramsysolutions.com slash agent. ramsysolutions.com slash agent. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money win your work and when with your relationship triple eight eight two five five two two five is phone number alongside george camel and ken colman excited to have you with us dan starts

Starting point is 01:14:17 off in tampa florida and i feel gentlemen get the new and how are y'all? Good afternoon, sir. How can we help? I've got a quick question. So I have been setting aside, budgeting a couple of dollars every month the last few years here towards an engagement ring. I will not likely be spending that money anytime soon. And so I was wondering if there's a better option. I mean, I'm sure there is, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on a better option or how to use this cash

Starting point is 01:14:52 rather than just have it sitting in the drawer and losing value on rising rates and everything. So there's no one in mind, you were just saving up? I'm single as a pringle. Wow. You're really looking ahead. Hold on a second. Did you say single as a pringle as in like a chip?

Starting point is 01:15:13 I did. I gotta tell you, I've never heard that one before. It's very exciting. I apologize, my ADHD was flaring. Go ahead, George. Doesn't take much to excite Ken these days. Well, I like it. I've never heard that before.

Starting point is 01:15:25 It's a good line. But it makes sense. I'm getting it. Thank you. Okay, so you're saving this money for a future lady in your life. It doesn't even exist. That is the plan. She exists in prayer and thought, and that's about it right now. Are there other things that you should be saving for? Uh, I'm sure there are. Do you have any debt? Um, kind of. I have a-

Starting point is 01:15:55 Dan. So I- I had a sense that it just didn't add up. What do you have? What is sort of? What does that mean? Well, I have about $41,000 in vehicle debt and I say kind of because it's technically under my, I have a full-time job but I also have a side business cleaning gum from public

Starting point is 01:16:21 roadways and sidewalks and stadiums and all that jazz. And so the vehicle is technically under the business. But it is... Dan, you signed the papers. Not the imaginary business guy. How big of a car do you need to get gum off the road? It's a truck just to haul around the equipment. What's the truck worth? The truck is worth, I checked this morning, $58,000. And what size truck is this? It's a 3 quarter ton, so around $2,500.

Starting point is 01:16:53 And you need something that big to haul around the gum getter upper equipment? No, not necessarily. I can downsize. You see where we're going here? All right, George, walking through getting rid of this monster. He doesn't need this giant $58,000 truck for a side business that scoops gum up. You're going to make what, 16 grand in profit that you could then use to pay cash for a used truck? I could, yep.

Starting point is 01:17:22 That's what I'd be doing. Ding, ding, ding. Listen, if we're on a first date and you're telling me about your 50,000 gum truck, that's a red flag for me. You know what I mean? I totally understand. The reason I went with the, I bought that vehicle as opposed to something used is just when I go to demos and meetings, I wanted a vehicle that was clean and looked nice.

Starting point is 01:17:43 Nobody cares. When you're like being presentable type of thing. Nobody cares. When I'm hiring gum guy, I'm not going, he better show up with a nice dually on that thing. I'm hiring the one guy on the planet who's gonna get the gum off the street. They don't care what your truck looks like.

Starting point is 01:17:58 In fact, they kind of expect you to drive. In fact, if I'm hiring a guy today to come get gum off the street, I kind of want to see the guy that's got a car with two-tone paint on it, the bumpers beat up. I go, now that's a guy who can get the gum up. Then I go, he's not charging me for his truck payment as part of this. I see a guy with a beat up truck, I go, he's going to charge a fair price.

Starting point is 01:18:20 I see a guy with a $50,000 truck, I go, I'm getting taken to the cleaners. Would you consider, Dan, getting this gum off the public streets? That's a dirty job. Have you heard of this concept? My friend Mike Rose got a very popular show called Dirty Jobs. I think it's... I'm familiar with it, but I don't know much about it. But would you consider what you do, pretty dirty job? It's not a fun job. Well, you can be, yeah. Alright, my point is you don't need a fancy truck.

Starting point is 01:18:47 We're trying to drive this home. So get rid of that. What's the car, what's the truck payment on that? Um, yeah, y'all are gonna love this. About $700 a month. There's your ring cost when we get the lovely lady interested. So sell the truck, use the proceeds to buy a used truck. You can use some of your savings if you need a $17,000 truck if you really need it. And then whatever money's left over

Starting point is 01:19:11 becomes your emergency fund. And let's start stacking money on top of that to get to three to six months of expenses. Then we can start investing and any money beyond that, we can begin saving up for a ring and a separate account. But truthfully, I wouldn't even start saving until I meet this person. Yeah, I agree. Because you're making enough money to where you can cash flow a nice ring. That's what we're getting at.

Starting point is 01:19:32 Yeah, clearing that $700 payment, it's not going to take you long to save up another 10 grand for a ring. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You got it, Dan? I said we're talking a year and a half at that point. Dan. And you probably should be dating this person for a little while before making that kind of commitment.

Starting point is 01:19:46 Yeah. Drop the truck. You don't need a fancy schmancy truck. All right, get rid of the truck. Keep scooping the gum. Retained earnings, more profits. Start listening to Entree Leadership Podcast. All right.

Starting point is 01:19:59 He's got himself in a sticky situation, Ken. Oh, there he is, folks. There's George. I thought it was gonna be all rainbows and gumdrops. I'm supposed to do the dad jokes, but you're dad now, so welcome. By the way, the Ramsay Network app is the only place to get the full episode of The Ramsay Show.

Starting point is 01:20:16 So for instance, this is our second hour. If you want to get the third hour, the only place you can get it is the Ramsay Network app. You can download it for free using the link in the show notes or by searching the Ramsay Network in your app store.. Now if you're on radio, stay tuned. We still got a lot of show coming to you. And to that end, how about a question from the Ramsey Network app? What do you say, George? This is from Scott. He asks, my wife had significant student loan debt with multiple loans. We paid off most of them. The last one is a mortgage

Starting point is 01:20:41 against her parents' house. It's about $29,000. They want to move soon, and we need the loan in our name. Do we take out a personal loan, refinance our house, get a HELOC, or something different? What say you, George? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, how about those options? Mortgage against her parents' house, $29,000. They want to move. We need the loan in our name. Because her last student loan is a mortgage against the parents' house. Oh yeah, yeah, I would refinance.

Starting point is 01:21:09 That's probably your best option for the best rates and terms on that thing, is just to refinance it. Because the HELOC will have a variable rate in a lot of cases and it's going to be higher than what you'd get on a traditional mortgage rate. And the amount shouldn't be a problem to get that amount. Small amount when it comes to student loans. Exactly. And personal loan again, not gonna have quite the terms of a mortgage.

Starting point is 01:21:28 So I'd contact our good friends at Churchill Mortgage and get a refinance done on this. And it looks like they've paid off a good amount. We don't know the amount of money they've paid off, so it looks like they've got the discipline to do this and that gets them free and clear of the parents, which is, again, Always messy.

Starting point is 01:21:43 You're always preaching about this kind of stuff where family members come to the table, they want to help, so they go, hey, well, you can do this, put it on our blah, blah, blah. And then you get in a situation like this. This one doesn't seem like it's sticky. I hate what the gum pun is still going, but nonetheless. As soon as they want to move, now you're in a pickle. That's right.

Starting point is 01:22:03 That's right. So this is why we preach, just stay out of that stuff altogether. Yeah. Wow. You give me a lot to chew on today, Ken. So make it stop. You can do this. You have the ability to keep doing this.

Starting point is 01:22:17 This is all my brain wants to think about, but instead we have to work. We have to be professionals. I'm trying to think right now, like this whole situation, like where this young man got the truck, right, and he's in the gum business. I need to Google this business. Yeah, yeah, scooping up the gum off. And I'll bet you he's getting paid by municipalities. It sounds like these are public roads, things like that.

Starting point is 01:22:38 So I was going to come back to this. I wanted to get to the network app question. But coming back to the situation, this is a really good potential business for this guy because if he does a really good job, then you start getting... He's the go-to gum guy. ...all over the state or wherever, and it's pretty easy money

Starting point is 01:22:55 because not everybody's lining up to do that, but he doesn't need the fancy truck. Is it relegated to just gum? That's the question. Is it any sticky substance on the road? I got to believe if you can get gum up, you can get gunk up. Maybe it's gum and gunk. I don't know, but he doesn't need I'm trying to come up with an analogy You don't want to blow up in your face. Have you seen that that business college hunks hauling junk?

Starting point is 01:23:14 He could be like college hunk Getting rid of gunk. I Don't like where you're taking with that. I did come and gunk and then you're had to bring in college hunks Nobody knows why everyone knows the case. You did gum and gunk and then you had to bring in college hunks. Nobody knows why. It's a business. Everyone knows the business. You know this business? There's one lady in the lobby who's apparently paying attention to the college hunks.

Starting point is 01:23:33 Nobody else in the lobby even knows what we're talking about. I'll fill Ken in on this break. All right. We'll look it up only on your computer though. All right. Good hour, George. Thank you, sir. This is The Ramsay Show. George thank you sir this is the Ramsey show you

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