The Ramsey Show - You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke. Common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Ones Credit Union Studio. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Worshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, taking your calls really for the next three hours.

If you want to get involved in numbers, AAA-825-2-2-25, gets you on the line. Anne is in Salt Lake City, Utah, and what's going on? Hi, thank you for taking my call. My question today is our youngest son is going to be starting medical school in July this summer. He's married and has a two-year-old and then has his wife who's pregnant. They're going to have their second baby in the fall. And our question is, because of the changes in the federal student loan program, they are not able to borrow enough money to even really pay the two-week.

for the medical school. Yeah. And so they're going to need to take out private loans. Oh. So our question is whether we will. Please don't do this. Hey, let me ask you, before you go any further with this, I want to ask you one question. Why do you think they put limits on it?

On how much they can borrow. They're trying to do, they're trying to get the schools to change their policies so they don't require students to borrow as much money. They're trying to get them to lower the tuition. but I think in this kind of in the gap, the tuition isn't going any lower, right? Right. But the crux of the question is, why do you think they're putting caps on how much students can borrow? Well, I think for some professions, it makes sense.

He's going to be a doctor. The question is, and I want, because I want you to think of this, because this is going to inform my answer to you, why do you think they're putting caps on how much these students can borrow? Simply. because they are able to pay them back. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

What kind of medicine is your son going to go into? Still deciding, but he's working right now in a urology clinic and is either interested in that or maybe endocrinology. So I've got friends who are at medical school startups at universities. I've worked with medical professionals my whole career. That's just where I've lived. And I'm just telling you, just parent to parent, my son is. 16, I would love for him to be a physician. I think that's a great noble calling. It's a good position. I mean, it's a good profession. I would, I mean, he can do what he wants at his age. I would tell him, do not borrow money to go to his profession. And that's me having friends that are physicians, working with physicians, working with medical education, and having a kid that I would love to see me a doctor because I don't know what AI's impact. is going to be on in one year, in two years, and 10 years on the need or the ability for that

person who owes $500,000 to be able to recoup that. So good. And a local pediatrician is not going to make $500,000, $600,000, especially with insurance reimbursements. A surgeon, they will. They'll do great. A urology surgeon, they might. And again, I don't, I don't, all that is so regixt.

specific and all that, you know, but all that to say is, you and I, the world we grew up in is the safest thing is go be a lawyer or go be a doctor. Like, that's what we were taught, right? And just look at what's happened to all the kids for the last 20 years who have been told, go to coding, go get a degree in coding, go get a degree in IT, they're out of jobs. You know what I mean? Like they created a thing that's going to take all their jobs away. I cannot. I cannot. not in good conscience. As proud of your son as you are, as excited as he is, if a bank is telling you you're too much of a risk for us to give you this money, to go around the bank and try to figure that out, like the bank's whole business is, I'm going to loan you this money and I'm going to

make money on you paying me back. And when banks say, I'm not going to do that. This is too high of a risk. Listen to what they're trying to tell you. They're trying to say, I don't want to do business with you because I don't think you're going to be able to pay us back. And I know I know I'm blowing up everything and that's not even why you called. I just got to tell you parent to parent, a guy who I worked in higher ed for 20 years. If they're saying we're putting the breaks on this, I would listen to why they're putting the brakes on it. And all that to say is, even more strongly, I would say don't go get private loans because those get people into so, so much trouble. Yeah, that's really tough. So we completely hijacked you. Yeah, totally hijacked. Sorry. Ask your

ask your question, but we wanted to make you clear on what our stance might be. So go ahead and ask your question, just so we can hear it with our own ears. Yes, I guess we're just trying to, you know, my husband and I are, we have, you know, I'm 58, he's 61. We're both working full time. Our combined incomes probably about $225,000 a year. We, we have about $40,000 left to pay on our home. and when our children were kind of going through their higher education process, we really weren't able to help them very much because of kind of the situation we were in, but we've kind of changed that situation now. Great.

And so we're just trying to figure out how we can't, because we didn't really contribute at all to his undergraduate education at all. He funded that himself. And so we're just trying to figure out if we can, if there's something we can do on our end, And so what we were, is that on the private loans, the interest rate is dramatically lower if we co-sign on that loan for him rather than him just doing that himself. So we were trying to figure out how to mitigate that risk. If we had a couple of ideas of how to do that.

I love that you're thinking in that way because I think that's as a parent you do. You want to look at ways to lessen the load, especially financially. even if I did agree with debt, I would never agree with co-signing. So even if I was a person who was like, oh, student loans are fine, I would still say co-signing, please don't do it because here's what's going to happen. You co-sign a loan, you're on the hook for it. His name is on it. He's just starting his life with his baby, his family, his wife.

He might think this is not something I'm interested in paying off right now. That's always going to be attached to you. So if you decide, oh, we want to move, we want to buy a house, we want to do something that might involve our credit. You're attached to it. It's debt that's in your name, and that always has the ability to ruin a relationship. Yes, so you're not only putting his credit score on the block, you're putting y'all's relationship on the block. Yeah. If you all have cash, write him a check today.

Yeah. I will high-five you to the moon and back if you want to support your kid through medical school. Even if you can't do all of it, fund some of it with cash. And say, here's a gift. We weren't able to do this. We're going to give you this gift. But what you're trying to do is take the guilt you have from not helping an undergrad and you're going to put your relationship with your son. He's going to sit at Thanksgiving with y'all. And y'all are going to be his lender. Oh. And Anne, I can tell you, because that's what me and my husband did. My husband's mother, my mother-in-law, co-signed for his loans. And she was the third wheel in our marriage for almost seven and a half years. Why'd you buy that car? Why did you buy new? Is that a new purse? Why did you, why did you'll buy that? And hear me say she is the sweetest, most generous woman. Like, there is nothing, like, I can't say anything bad about the woman. But I am saying because her name was on that loan, that she was part of the marriage. Because when she was ready to buy a house, when she was ready to do things, it was like, when are you guys going to pay?

In the nicest way, when are you guys going to pay this loan off? Are you guys making progress? Right? Because it's her right to ask because her name was on it. She had every right to want to know about it. But as a result, it did become, at many times, a point of contention. And I just, I hated that it was like that. Now everything's good.

The loans paid off is all gravy. But I hated that that's how we got off. That was the foot we got off on in our marriage. And it didn't need to be that way. We just totally ruined your plans. And I'm sorry, you're probably not going to listen to what we said. But, man, if it plants a seed, a doubt in your mind, let it grow. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have.

enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you've got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options.

Take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off dads, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team of Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800356-4282. All right, Haley's in Houston, Texas. Haley, you are on the line.

How can we help today? Hi. Thanks for having me. So I had a question regarding my retirement investments, I guess. I've been investing about 45k a year these last several years, and I was wondering when I can maybe pull back some on that and maybe focus on other things like saving for a house or just other life events. I mean, I want to say today, but tell me more about your financial snapshot because just for those listening, Haley is investing above and beyond what we would say generally. in the baby steps unless you're to the point of baby step seven where you've paid off your home and everything. So what you're doing, Haley, is pretty awesome in the way of building wealth,

but let's make sure that it's in the right parameters of your financial situation. So tell us more. Tell us what you earn. Tell us if you have any debt. Give us the goods. So I take home about 220-ish a year, and about 145 of that is like my actual income, and then I work overtime. Okay. For the remainder. And then I do have 90K in student debt, which is the only debt I have. But right now it's on deferment.

So like they're like I'm on the save program and they're not letting me pay on it right now. Okay. So I don't know. That's one thing I could maybe. You're not letting you. You can pay on it. Yeah. I can.

Yeah. Don't say they're not letting you. Well, it's on hold. And I'm on the PSLF, or I'm trying to. to do a PSLF program. So I'm not wanting to get out of that because then if I change into a different payment plan, it will mess it up a bit. I understand that.

So you're giving me some insight that I am grateful for because it is informing what I think is the best route for you. And what I'm going to say is what John and I did, is what Rachel and George did. I'm sure it's what Dave would have done had he have had student loans. I don't know if he ever did. but so you make a really great income and you've made some what I would call smart choices. There's a, you could have done way worse by, you know, investing 40 to 50% of your income. However, I would pull it back because debt is really serious.

And around here, we believe in our whole heart that your biggest wealth building tool is your income. You need the full force of your income at your disposal to truly be able to, number one, mitigate risk in your life. Number two, be able to build wealth. And then number three, be able to do it in a peaceful manner. Like those are things that we really care about here. So the number one thing that we're going to teach you is debt elimination. Getting rid of the debt and then pledging to yourself that you will live a life without debt, especially consumer debt. And so I would say the same thing for you.

You know, Haley, I'd say let's pause investing for a moment. You've done so well. Let's go back and let's just knock out these $90,000 of student loans. I mean, you're single. Are you single? Yeah. Okay. So are you telling me that if you lived on 190, you couldn't knock these out in a year, round number-wise?

Would you recommend maybe like not stopping investing completely and maybe doing like pulling back like 20K and then putting that towards student loans over the next quarter? What's your fear of investing? What are you scared of? You're putting away a trillion dollars. Yeah, what do you have already? About 270 right now. How old are you? But that's including my tension.

I'm 30. You're not going to believe me because this is deeper than like intellectual knowledge, but you're good. I am way more concerned. Like that quarter of a million dollars in 30 years is going to be a whole bunch of bunch of money. I'm way more concerned. Can I just be a jerk for a second? Is that cool? Can I just be mean? Like me? I got two kids. You make 200 and what did you say 225? 220. Okay. You made 220,000 bucks. You have the ability to repay these two loans that you sign your name on. And you're choosing not to so that me and my wife are as part of our taxes are going to pay them for you.

Now, if you were making $40,000 a year as an assistant district attorney trying to help the lease of these in my community, I'm all about that. Right. Right. And so, like, you send your name to a piece of paper. You're making like almost a quarter million dollars a year. Pay the debts that you said you were going to pay back and then get on with your life. I'm way more concerned about your financial picture long term. You hold it on to these. And crossing your fingers for some government repayment program, which by the way, may come through. It might. It might. It might. they've ticked up they they they have ticked up um how many they're processing and all that that's all good um but man and how long have you already waited how long have you already been waiting for this um well i'm on well they've been on deferment for about almost two years um but i'm technically

almost five years and that's a long time to what and here's the thing here's what's on here's what's at stake because i think this is this is beyond mathematics you're you're clearly good with numbers, you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about wealth. No one's going to fall to you on that, at least for sure I'm not. But part of personal finance, a huge part of it is emotional. We know about the behavior. We know about the numbers, but we forget the emotional part, which is human beings want freedom. We want to feel freedom and we want to feel peace. That is just who we are at the core. And so as long as this is taking up space in residency in your heart and in your brain and in your mind, what's the call?

Like, why is that worth it for you? Especially, now, don't get me wrong. If you were making $40,000 a year and it was a struggle, I can understand it a little bit more. But girl, you've got the means to pay this off so quickly. This should have been gone. Like, this should have been out of your life. And I would just hate for you to postpone the amount of freedom and autonomy that you can have inside on the inside because you can go out and buy what you want right now.

But on the inside and just say, yeah, to John's point, I signed for this. Let me let it go. And let me make you feel a little bit better about something here. How old did you say you are? 30. I'm 30. Okay. So you're 30 years old. You've already got 270,000 sitting in your investments. Let's just say, you know, until the age of 60, let's pretend you didn't invest a single more dollars. Like you just were like, you know what, I'm not going to put nothing else in here. And we just let it grow because that's not going to be the case.

it's already $7 million. Okay? Wow. I feel like it's not. No. Because. That's not real. No, you're so young.

It's because you're so young. And then if we just say, hey, she's going to spend one year and pay this off. And then she's going to jump right in at 15%. Right? Because 15% for you is about $2,700 a month. And let's just say, okay, we're going to start that at age 31 since we're going to take a year and pound out this debt. And then if I calculate it, you're at $13,000.

million dollars. Do you think that's all right? Can you scratch by on that? I think you can claw by, you know, on the 13 million. And sure, we could do the math on, well, what if we added an extra year to it? Okay, let's do that. Let's say, okay, let's account for the year that she just didn't feel like paying off the debt. So let's add another year to it. Okay, it's 14 million. You know, you got a million more. But do you see what I'm saying? Right. A million dollars is a lot of money. there's time to make it up is what I'm saying. And then some. It's a year of time to get completely free to feel like, you know what?

I paid my debts in this world. I did what I said I was going to do. I love that. And then from there, the good news is to your point, because I think I heard you talk about this. Yes, you can pause. After you pay off the state, you can pause investing. You can pull back to 15% and save up for your down payment. Hey, you could even pause for two to three years completely if you wanted to in order to stack up a down payment fast.

Okay. Okay. So you'd recommend I completely pause, get the loans paid off, and then, you know, from there on do whatever. And Haley, this is just me. This is just me. I'm only speaking for John DeLone here. If they come out next year and say all student loans are forgiven forever, I wouldn't be mad because for me, it's an issue of integrity. I signed a piece of paper that said, if you all help me get through college, I'll pay you back. And I did what I said I was going to do. And so what I wish I had that money back? Yeah, because I paid six figures back. But I did what I said I was going to do. And at the end of the day, nobody can take my integrity from me.

So I'm going to be okay with that. But yeah, I'd get it paid off because it's the right thing to do. And more importantly, you've got the means to do it right now. So knock it out. And there's just something to be said about no one having to save you in life with money. It is a good feeling to say I took my income. I paid my debts. I did what I needed to do.

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Hello. I'm good. How can we help? So I want to know if I should continue to support my wife with her continuous education. Tell us more. Okay, so I'm 39. I'll be 40 here in a couple months. She's a few years younger than me. She's worked a job for 10-plus years, was let go about three years ago. I stepped up and got a better job making more income. So now I make, you know, $100,000 and was able to support our family.

She went to school. First was medical billing and coding, finished that, then she went for phlemodity, finished that, then she went for medical assistant. And she's wrapping that up. They're doing mock interviews, found out that she's only going to make about $20 an hour. we've got about $25,000 in student loan debt, and I just don't feel like that is acceptable. For the amount that you spent on these certifications?

Correct. I do see that the amount that we're in debt equals about a year's worth of her income, but now she wants to go for to be a nurse, the RN program. And that's going to add probably about another 20,000. My big concern here is less about the education and the money. My big concern here is the way you're talking about her tells me y'all are not together on this at all.

Like, you know what I mean? I want a supporter. I know it to what? Because I know perpetual students. I was one. who went to school a lot, so one, to get credentials, but two, so I didn't have to deal with the real world.

Right. And it wasn't until me and my wife sat down, and she was like, hey, what are we doing here? Where are we headed with this? Because these three jobs, she'd be a nurse by now. Yeah. Right?

But if she learned along the way, I actually like the medical field. I like doing this part of the medical field. I can become a nurse. That's not a bad trajectory. What's the thing beneath the thing here? Because you sound frustrated with her. Like it's not acceptable. She didn't set the market rate. Y'all may not have sat down together and looked at, hey, we're going to spend this much money. How much is this job going to pay? And y'all didn't do that calculation together. And that would be frustrating. But I would tell you, as a husband, you own that as much as she does.

Like supporting your spouse isn't just blindly writing checks. It's, y'all are united on your decisions. here's why we're doing the things we're doing, and here's the sacrifices we're both going to make together to get where we want to go. That's being married. But like, you're blaming her, it sounds like. You know what I'm saying? I'm not, I'm not blaming her for it, but you're right. I like that where, you know, where are we going with this? Yeah. You know, what happened after the RN, you know, is there something else? Like, yeah, it sounds like you're worn out because every time you think it was the end of the line, it, something else is the problem. And now we got to go for the next thing. Am I right or wrong? I am. I'm kind of burned out with work. I'm a truck driver,

so being gone all the time and not being with my family all the time. I mean, I'm not having that too income, you know, that strong going forward. But I'm also optimistic and I like to look towards the future. And that's why I agreed to the schooling. Like, oh, yeah, like, we, you know, we can both make, you know, six figures. That's great. Where did you get that number? You just made that up in your head? Yeah, I think they said that she would be around like 76,000. And I make, I mean, I'm at 40,000 right now as of this week for this year. So I think I'd make about 110 to 115 realistically. Would it help if you took, obviously in the past, it sounds like you took out student loans for education. Would it help you get on board with what she's trying to accomplish if you said, hey, I'm for this, but we just need to cash flow.

I don't want to go backwards financially to make this happen. How would you feel about that? And how would you feel about that suggestion? So being that at my age right now, I don't have any retirement. And that's been my main focus, like the main thing on my mind. is I need to get my 401K built up. Okay. I don't want to work for the rest of my life.

I actually do want to retire. Right. Okay. Right now, as far as I cash flow in it, I just don't have the means paying for our entire household off of just one income. How long have you guys been married? 16 years. Okay. And is this is this the first marriage for both of you guys?

Yep. Okay. Tell me, okay, so here's what I hear. And John, jump in at any point. It's almost like for 16 years, I don't know what you guys were doing, but now all of a sudden it's like we got to lock in. And it's you're ready to lock in, but she's almost still like finding who she wants to be.

And I mean, I'm playing the field on this because I agree with you. There does come a point where it's like, we need to make a decision. We need to lock in and go forward with that. I feel you on that. I also feel you on not wanting to burn extra money because there are fish to fry like retirement and making sure we're paying off debt. So it sounds like a really kind of come to Jesus meeting needs to happen with you and your wife

where it's I need to understand the career hopping. Do you know where it is that you're wanting to go or are you still feeling like you're in experiment mode? Like tell me for real. Like tell me what you're really thinking so that I can understand where you're coming from and we can take some time and like cool out on that and then come back together and really talk about it. But understanding where she's at and her understanding where she's at is going to be paramount on this. And she may not know.

And I want you to redefine the word support. I'll take Kelly Daniel, who is the producer of my show. She supports me in that show. She supports me by saying, hey, you did this really well. and she also supports me by helping create a vision for where we want to go with it. But she also really supports me when she says, hey, you blew that. You did not handle that call well. And so you supporting your wife by saying, quote unquote, yes, yes, yes to everything,

and I'm going to get a job where I'm dying because I can't keep doing it. And then I'm going to start keeping secrets about how scared am about our future. And I'm going to start keeping secrets about how my back hurts and I can't move and I'm not sleeping well. That's not support. And so support is you, my buddy Will Godera says every, he's one of the world's best restaurateurs. And he says every shift, the wait staff goes and fills up their pitcher so they can spend the rest of their shift making sure everybody else has water. That's support. But they can't first start by supporting all of their customers if their pitcher's empty.

And so you have to expand your definition of support is I'm not just going to block. finally say yes, yes, yes to everything. Support looks like, hey, let's take a half day. I'm going to take a half day off of work. I'm ahead of schedule financially this year. Where are we going? Who do we want to be? What do we want our house to feel like? And right now, this debt is scaring me to death. I would love for you to be a nurse because you could be a nurse into your 70s. And AI will take parts of nursing away, but it won't take the human contact away. Like, that's a thing she could do for a long, long, long time. And maybe we can't afford that for the next two years. Let's settle into this full-bottomy job or whatever for two years. But support is,

I'm going to be honest to put everything on the table, and let's co-create a vision together. Hey guys, health care is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing, and most of the time, it feels completely out of your control. But there is a better way to handle it. Christian health care ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health-cost-sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new. idea. CHM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven, and they've shared over $13 billion in medical bills for their members. Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions, and you don't have to wait for open enrollment. Now, let's talk about how CHM helps your budget,

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That's CHministries.org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. The phone lines where we have Nick from Sioux City, Iowa, on the line. Hey, Nick, how can we help today? Hey guys I just wanted to call First off big fan of the show

Thanks for taking my call I listen to it all the time So the reason I'm calling is I'm a small business owner I've got about nine employees now And my main guy Is He's

Great guy Works hard, shows up every day But I think just made a lot of poor decisions You know when he was kind of younger And getting started He's only about Probably 28 29 years old. He's got four young kids.

You know, I remember he was buying some vehicles from some used dealerships and probably paying, you know, top dollar and not getting good interest rates and, you know, probably spending more than what he should have out of the Git. Over the last several years, I've, he came to me and said, hey, I'm, you know, I'm short. I'm not going to be able to make my house payment. I'm not going to be able to make my car payment. Can I borrow some money? I've always lending money. just slowly took it out of his check, you know, as the weeks and months went on after that. He's to the point now where him and his family are down to one vehicle. The other, he has a loan on that vehicle. He has a loan on two other vehicles that he doesn't even own anymore. He had to turn them, he had to basically give them back to the bank because they were broke down. How do you know this much?

Well, when he keeps coming to me for money all the time, I feel bad. And I'm like, what's going on? hey, oh yeah, I'm like, you work your butt off every week, man. Like you work, you know, 60 hours a week. What do you think is going on? If you really, I mean, not in a gossipy way, but if you just had to say like, you know what I think? Da-da-da-da-da. Like, what do you think's going on over there?

Well, I think part of the problem is, and that may not a problem, but I think he's a person who's just not really motivated by money. It just doesn't, it doesn't, you know, do anything for him, maybe. Some people are just like that, I guess. Yeah, that's right. he's pretty laid back. So it just doesn't really bother him. I don't. And that's the thing.

And that's honestly why I'm calling because the last thing I want to do as an employer is get between one of my guys and their significant other. Like I don't want that at all. Yeah. I just feel like, I just feel like, you know, I'm willing to help. But when it's every six months and I'm just helping and, you know, I actually bought him a truck. I bought him a used truck to let him. And I just gifted it to him, you know, so he. titled it and everything. And now that's having some problems.

You're not helping it. You're not helping anymore, Nick. I just got to cut the cord. Well, my good buddy, Henry Cloud, he wrote a great book. But one of the first stories in the book is a family that came and they had a young adult kid who kept asking for money and asking for money. And they, you know, the family came to him as a psychologist and said, hey, how do we help our kid? And he said, the greatest gift you can give your kid is some problems. And that sounds heartless, right? But for a guy that doesn't care about money, he's going to care about having a roof over his family's head. And until he feels that,

and you keep bailing him out, and by the way, you're making it worse for him to come to work every day. And this sounds counterintuitive because you're not just his boss. Now you're his bank. and that shame he feels every day, he feels it even heavier. Yeah, that's eventually going to lead to one or two things. He's either going to leave the company because he can't handle it and you're going to cut him off. And so he's either going to be mature and go, yeah, that feels right. And that's good. And he's going to keep working there.

Or he's going to go, I can't believe this guy cut me off. And he's going to leave. He's going to blame you for his bad decisions. Let me ask you this, brother. it's rare in my world where somebody is great in every aspect of their life except for one sliver. I have to believe that a guy that handles his personal finances this way, that handles his home this way, his marriage, his kids this way, that has to impact your business. Is that true? I'm sorry, say that one more time.

So it's very rare in my world that somebody has everything in their life together professionally and just, When they get home, everything's a dumpster fire. This has to bleed into his work, right? Maybe not. I mean, I run a small construction company, you know, so he's directed by me every day. I mean, he knows, he knows what to do and, you know, under my guidance and supervision and he has a good job. And I think it's a little bit of, you know, to be honest, I almost think he likes coming to work because it's a little bit of a break from probably what's going on there.

You know, I feel two things. One, you know, I don't like seeing somebody work that hard and, you know, struggle at that point, especially I rely on this guy. I mean, this is my main guy. And but at the same time, I just, I'm like, well, if you can't get to work, that affects me now. Have you tried gifting him the gift of knowledge versus money? tried, you know, getting them on with some of the Ramsey products or anything like that,

financial peace, every dollar? I should probably try to do that and push that a little more. I've always been very cautious. I try not to ask too much. I try to just kind of stick to the, you know, I just don't want to get, I don't want to get too personal. I don't want to seem like I'm pushing. Well, you've already been personal. Yeah, when somebody comes and asks you for money to pay their rent, it's personal now.

I get that. I just, I understand what you're saying. We've already ventured into that. I mean, at this point, if I, if I were in your shoes today, and I think this is where we're at with this call, yeah, I'd probably, I wouldn't wait for him to approach you again. I would approach him and I'd say, you know what? I've been thinking about your situation and I think I made a mistake. I really wanted to help and I gifted you money and I did all this. I think that was the wrong move on my part. I really should have shared with you some of the things that have really helped me. And that's a great on route for you to say, you know, here's the plan I follow. Here's a great podcast. I even, you know, here's every dollar.

I was able to get you this one to get you started. And use the line that we use with folks. Say, if I give you, if I gift you this, will you do it? If I gift you this financial piece and this every dollar, will you promise me? If I give you the total money makeover, will you read this book? And pose it to them like that and just say, man, I don't want to see you struggle. I'm grateful that you shared with me what's going on, but I don't think me giving you money is the answer anymore. And I'm not, I can't keep doing that, but I can give you this. And then that way you're helping him, but you're also pushing him out. Like, don't, don't come over here.

Asking me for money anymore. Ransy Solutions even has a HR benefit called Smart Dollar, which is, which giant companies use and small businesses use it. But it's a way to teach employees. A close friend of mine is the CFO of a landscaping business. and he realized a lot of his guys were blowing so much of their money and they were struggling at the end of every month. And so they got smart dollar for the team. And it's like, hey, as a company, we're all going to do this. We're going to learn these principles. But you've got some great data, which is I've given you a truck. I've given you money multiple times. That's not helping. And so I'm going to stop doing something that's not helping.

And I can help you here. And hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of Total Money Makeover. I'll send you a year of every dollar. we'll send you the digital financial peace university product. We'll send that to you. And you can just turn around and gift it to him if you'd like to. But man, you've made it personal by getting into his finances. And so when somebody comes and asks me for one time help, done, easy. Somebody keeps coming back and saying, can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money? We're going to have a deeper conversation, a bigger conversation. Well, yeah, because at that point, it's what we would tell anybody. It's symptoms of a bigger problem. It's a systemic issue. Yeah. And putting a Band-Aid on it, It's, it just, it does not work. And I think that enabling calls are probably some of the toughest calls we deal with because you do. You want to help as a human being. If you're a, you know, any sort of conviction inside of you. Yeah, you have a pulse. You feel guilty and you want to help when you see somebody else hurting. You want to help them carry that burden. Like that's just who we are as people. I think we just have to be careful of how we do that and make sure that we're not making it worse. Yeah. Rarely is throwing. money at a problem, the solution. If somebody needs to eat today, done. Throwing money at that problem, we'll solve that. They'll get a meal today or a place to stay tonight. Like 100%. I'm all about that. But if somebody keeps coming back and coming back, the greatest way to help somebody is to peel, it's back up 30,000 feet. And if somebody's struggling, they got two cars they're paying on that they don't even have anymore in a third car plus the car that you gave them is falling apart.

Man, you got bigger issues. It may be that as his employer, hey, I'm going to pay for 10 counseling sessions for you and your spouse. I'll cover that. And or all pay for 10 financial coaching sessions or something with Ramsey. But man, yeah, I would not loan somebody I care about money. I'll either give it to them or we're going to have a bigger conversation. When you've worked hard to buy a car the right way, you paid cash with no payments hanging over your head. The last thing you want is to worry about it every time you drive it. That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automation. as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. See, most people don't stress about their car because it's older.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair One's Credit Union Studio. Let's go to Alexis again in Des Moines, Iowa. We got two calls from Des Moines. What's going on, Alexis? Yes, I'm calling because I'm trying to get my husband on board, and we have three mortgages. So we're a little bit of a mess. On the same house or three different houses? Well, two houses and then a mobile home, the best one.

Okay. So tell us how much. you owe on each house and what it's worth and do the same for the mobile home. Okay. Tennessee home is $147,000. It's worth probably like $3.40. Okay. Mobile home probably worth $60.

Where is that located? In Iowa. Okay. And we probably owe $63. Iowa, main home, primary home. now we owe 257 and it's probably worth $2.90.

So you could sell your Tennessee home in a state you don't live in and clear both your debts today? Technically, but his family member lives there, so he didn't want to sell. But that sounds like his family member's problem. I don't want to be cruel. I know that sounds cruel.

Why do you all own a home and you're paying a mortgage on a home that his family member lives in? Well, they pay rent, so it's the rental to them now. So they do cover that one. How long's the lease for? It's yearly. They want to do longer and in hopes of purchasing it. Well, that's not an option.

But I'm just saying, like, what's the lease, the immediate lease for? Until September. September. So what's your big question? How can we help? So he's also had five different jobs within the past year because we had to move back to Iowa because my mom has dementia and to help her care. So if he doesn't like a job, he quits and get another one.

But he makes more than I do from work because I work a job that doesn't pay as well. What do you make? So I make 415 from work. He makes about 6 to 4 due to his pay decrease. And then we have monies that come in from our military service. How much is that? Table veterans. How much do you get from that? Probably about

70K. Okay. So what's your month look like? On a monthly basis, how much are you bringing in? On the low end, 12.5, on the high end, if we include like the rental income, back child support that I receive and other miscellaneous, it could be about 18,000. Okay. So there's a lot going on here.

You know, when you called you're like, oh, man, we're a mess. And it's actually doesn't, it's not as bad as I feel like it sounds. I think you guys have a lot of money coming and it just sounds like there's disorganization. You've got the income there and you've got assets that you can sell to really simplify this really quickly. I think you just feel disorganized and unorganized. So what I would do if I were in your shoes is come September, I would let that family member know. And as few words possible, basically, we've got to simplify our life. And part of that means we've got to sell this property.

And so in September, when the lease is up, you'll have to move out. And I know that you had dreams of maybe buying this place. And if you want to buy it in September, fine. But we're going to have to put it on the market because we've got to get our life together. Right. And so I would say that. And then, you know, there's $193,000 in equity there that you need to get your hands on. I think I missed it when you said the mobile home was worth 60.

Did you say you owe 63 on it? I owe 63. I'm not exactly sure how much it's worth. It's a 2025 like I just bought it last year. Okay. Who'd you buy it for? Huh? Who'd you buy it for?

It was for us. So we were renting and then the cost of rent. And then I thought it would be easier just to purchase that. Because with our cash flow when he was making more money, it just seemed like I could easily pay that off quickly. and then just... And then he quit his job, and Yel went and bought another house?

He didn't quit his job. So he was living in Tennessee. I was living in Iowa, so we were living in two states because I had to get here quickly to help with my mother's care. Rent in our area is still high for what you're paying for,

old homes and stuff like that. So to me, it makes sense to just be paying rent. I was like I'd rather waste it on a mobile home. Okay. But you don't need it anymore. He was a sign on for that. So he,

So then I just got the mobile home in my name. Right now, our son that's in college here, and then our older son, they live in the mobile home right now. Your sons? Trying to get their life together. Yeah. Okay. So, and how old are the sons? One is 20 and one is, well, one's 21, one's 19.

Okay. So what I would do with the sons are, do they have jobs? One is on medical leave from work. And then the other one, he's a college student, so he doesn't have a job. So I would say to the sons, I'd say, again, same narrative. Your dad and I, we've got, we're trying to get organized. We're trying to get our financial life together. We've made a couple of mistakes.

Part of writing those mistakes is we've got to sell this mobile home. And so your options are, you can hang out, you can move back in with us for a couple of months, and then you've got to figure out an apartment or if you're going to live on campus. And that would be what I say. and you've got to get a job so that you can fund an apartment for, especially for the 21-year-old. For the 19-year-old, yeah, you can extend, I think you can extend more grace there.

But you can't keep this mobile home that's going down in value every single day that you have it. That really, I don't think if you sat down, let's pretend that you were just living in the Iowa house. You didn't have the Tennessee house. You didn't have a mobile home. You're just living in your house as it is now. I don't think you would go,

you know what, the boys need some place to live. Let's buy them a mobile home. I don't think you would make that choice. I think you probably would have said they need to get a job. Maybe we'll help with an apartment, right? I think your train of thought probably would have been down a different line. And so what I want to challenge you to do is be very intentional about what stays in your life by default versus what you actually want it to look like. And right now there's things in your life by default. The trailer is there by default. The Tennessee house is there by default, right? So that's what we're trying to do to get organized and go, this is not actually what I want. Let's get that out of here. Let's get the next thing out of here. And then let's take that money

and actually pay down some debt and create some security for ourselves. It seems like you're two hard conversations away from cleaning up your life. But it seems like y'all are doing a lot of gymnastics to get around those two uncomfortable. conversations. And in the process, you're making your own marriage really uncomfortable, right? Yes, he doesn't agree with selling the Tennessee house. Like, he's fine with keeping it. So, like, creating a plan to pay it off. Again, ask him the question I ask you. I want you to go, this is your homework. You have two pieces of homework for me. The first homework is look on Kelly Blue Book or look, however you sell campers or trailers, find out what the thing is worth and get it on the market.

That's a piece of homework, number one. Homework, number one. Homework, Number two is I want you to pose the same question I posed to you to your husband and say, hey, let's just pretend for a minute. Let's be intentional. In an effort to be intentional, let's pretend that we were just here in Iowa. We never had a house in Tennessee. We never had that. And we thought to ourselves, let's buy a rental. Would we on purpose look in another state, specifically Tennessee and choose to buy a rental there with the intent of a family member moving there? Would we choose that? And just wait and see what he says, because I guarantee the answer is no.

And that's going to help him see that this happened by default, which means we don't have to stay there. We can make changes and do things on purpose. When you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits, a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you. A lot of so-called debt relief programs leave people wondering, am I actually protected if I get sued? When all you've got is a legal plan added on as an upsell, of course you feel stuck. But Guardian isn't another debt relief company. They're real attorneys.

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So if you want real help instead of a sales pitch, go to Guardianlit.com slash Ramsey. That's Guardian, L-I-T-com slash Ramsey. Attorney advertising, results may vary and no specific outcomes guaranteed. Let's go to our Ramsey Show Question of the Day. Today's Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y-R-R-R-R-Fi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But Y-R-R-R-R-E-F-Y options with payments built around their real-life situations. Learn more at Y-R-R-E-F-Y.com.

That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Melody in Connecticut. She writes, I've been married for over 40 years, and I've always managed our household finances by myself. When we were young and broke, it was my responsibility to worry about budgeting for groceries, bills that need to be paid, etc. My husband recently retired and opened up a separate savings account solely for his Social Security deposits. I do not have access to those funds, so my paycheck now has to cover the mortgage utilities car payment and all his incidental spending. He never asked, if we have enough money to cover his purchases. Oh, Jade, I'm getting pissed off. I'm me too, me too. He just expects my paycheck to be enough. How do I get him to understand that without his income,

I can't cover everything now? My gut tells me, tell him, we don't have enough money to make the bills. But my gut also tells me you've tried that. He don't care. He don't care. Uh-uh. I think he has made,

this is your phrase, John. People speak in action. and the pictures. What is it? Yeah, we think in pictures, but we speak in, I mean, we speak in words, but we think in pictures. Yeah. But his actions are speaking very, yeah, behaviors of language. That's what it was. Yeah, behaviors and language. He has said, I don't care, and I care so less that I am going to separate myself from the hole over here and do my own thing on the side. And by the way, that's what I'm getting from this. He did that 40 years ago when he said, I don't care, you figure it out.

And he's left you to manage the whole house like a coward for 40 years. I don't want to deal with reality. That's your job. I'll go make the money. And then the day he retires, he's like, cool, this is mine now. Yeah.

I mean, she's right to be concerned about that. She's right to be frustrated by that. No, frustrated and concerned. She's right to be enraged by that. Thank you. You're right. I was being light-handed. by that. Yeah.

Gosh, Jade, here's the thing. I speak to so many men who are awesome and they are busting it on behalf of their families and their spouses and their kids and guys who are going to counseling for the first time in 30 years and guys who are patching

stuff up with their dads and their aging parents. When I read these, I get overly mad. Oh, yeah. Because it's such a coward, unmasculent, brave way to do life, to just cash out of your own life and put all of this on your wife as you've done for 40 freaking years. Melody, I hate to tell you this, but you have a spouse that doesn't care. Doesn't care about the stress you're under has never cared for almost a

decade, I mean, almost half a century, doesn't care that your math doesn't line up. He wants to do whatever he wants to do. Doesn't care for whatever. And this is going to sound petty. I don't know away outside of an honest conversation, hey, let's look at the bills together. And I'm assuming you've done that. I don't know another way to deal with this kind of thing than to deposit the money in your account and start Venmoing him or start asking for him to pay bills. Because that's how he's living anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask something to you, John, about this because I think we get a lot of calls. And this at this point is going beyond the Y-Refi question, because we get calls all the time where a spouse feels this type of situation where another spouse has really just separated

themselves, has kind of just walled off in a certain area, whether it's they keep all the money to themselves or they're keeping money to the side or whatever that is. And you can always tell that this has been a pattern that's been going on for a long time. And when I hear that, I'm filtering it through, oh my gosh, if Sam Warshaw ever tried it, like it'd be unsolved You'd be texting me in the middle of the night and saying, hey, we need to hide a body. Exactly, exactly. And so what I want you to answer, John, in a tactful way is how much of this is, it's easy to point at the, in this case, the husband and go, I can't believe he's doing that. Oh my gosh, this guy, this guy, this guy.

But how much of it is the other spouse who's been allowing a certain type of behavior to persist? Like, where does that pendulum fall on what we allow versus what we get? At the end of the day, and this is. the hardest thing about talking about marriage. The only person you can control is you. And so, yes, it's easy to look back and to say, for 40 years, you have made me dot, dot, dot. The honest thing is for 40 years, I have chosen to carry all of this weight for the house. You're participating. I've participated. And that feels like victim shaming and blah, what I want people to hear that as is empowerment.

I chose this. I wish I hadn't have chosen it, but I did. I won't choose this any longer. And so no matter what you're going through, there will come a moment, a loss of a spouse, a loss of a child, a horrific incident at work, whatever, the loss of a job. At some point, the question emerges,

what are you going to do now? Yeah. And if you get to that question and you immediately start to loop over again, but they did and then you're just going to spin your life on the on the on the rent cycle at some point meli has to say okay what am i going to do now am i going to keep doing this for the next 20 years of our marriage until i die and resent the last 20 years or am i going to make a change now and that change may cost you the image of the marriage you think you've been propping up for half for half a

century right it may be that this guy has been out for years and you're just going to make it concrete. It may be that when he realizes this is kind of, I'm kind of lame. Like I had my little pity party when I retired and this is not how spouses do life together. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't realize how bad it was or whatever. And Melody has to be honest about, has she blown things out of proportion for 40 years? And we don't have any money. We do. Right. Yeah. And he's just like, whatever. And so all that comes into effect. But your question is a good one. Everyone who comes to me and saying, hey, I want to work on our communication and marriage. What they're asking me is, how do I get my spouse to do what I want them to do? And someone's like, we need to learn how

to fight. It is, how do I get them to do? I want them to do. Yep. The hardest question, the hardest answer I always give is you can't make them do anything. The only thing you can do do is be the best version of yourself in your marriage. And that means I got to be honest about what I participated in and I got to be real honest about what I'm going to do next, period. I wish it was more complex than that. And I know that's simple, but it's very complicated. I wish it was more, it was harder than that, it's that simple for melody. And I also think there's got to be, if you truly want to be happy, and I'll add this on, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you also have to do what you're going to do without an expectation from them. Because you can't go, I'm going to

put it in simple terms. If you're like, man, I wish my spouse would be more servant-hearted towards me. So all the time, you're like, would you like a glass of water? Would you like me? You're doing all these extra things hoping they'll do it back. You hope there's an ROI on it. Yeah. And then when they don't, now you're still getting resentful and angry on the inside. So it's almost like you have to do right just for you without the expectation. So you can feel like if the incomes, I know I did all I can do. And I did. I tell couples all the time who are thinking about getting divorced. Give yourself six months to be the best version of yourself. And that's the person who is looking past the dirty laundry to say, hey, I saw how hard you're working at work. Thank you for being in this house. That is the person who looks past the or 10 pounds or the past the gruff or the eye roll, give yourself a chance if you're sitting in a divorce attorney hearing that you know, I showed up as the best version of myself. And if you can do that and your spouse says, I'm not interested in being married to you. Wow.

It's going to make it hard. Yeah. But you'll have inner peace because I did the best I could. You'll know. Don't show up to the table being like, well, yeah, I did do whatever. So almost every time when two people decide I'm going to be the best version of myself so I can be in total service to my spouse and they do it back, ain't going anywhere near a divorce office, right?

Because y'all are building the life you want to have. You're building the marriage you want. And the hard part with all of this is when you truly are the best version of yourself, you're doing the best you can't. That is so vulnerable. It's scary. Because you're putting yourself out there every day. And your spouse may say, don't care.

Don't care. Don't notice. Don't care. Ooh. But I'll tell you this, when you're going is, is, let me go back to like something as silly as high school sports it's easier to be like well if I had just worked out I would have been fast whatever it's scary to put all the work in and still

be seventh place oh man right yeah but you you stop running because you're like that's as best as I can do right I did my best and so Melody ask yourself not what does he get ask yourself what am I going to do now this show is sponsored I better help. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our relationships and on our mental and emotional health. Money fights are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I have struggled over the years with money

conflicts over and over again. Therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about giving you financial advice, but it can give you strategies to better communicate about money, help you build healthier ways of coping and help you build a plan to move forward with your mental and emotional health and your money. I want you to consider talking to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals. BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they work according to a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform and if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy

can help. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey. Mark is in Fort Myers, Florida on the line. What's up, Mark? How can we help today? Hey, John. Hey, Jade. How are you guys today?

Doing all right. Great. So the reason I'm calling is my father and mother-in-law, they just moved down to Florida about almost two years ago and after he retired. And After speaking with my wife, they're going to be out of money in about 20 months.

How do you know this? They've always been big spenders. I know this because my wife, who's actually a financial planner, she finally just took over for them. They never wanted to use her in the past, and now they have, and now she's got all their information. And anyway, they've always been big spenders, never paid off their mortgage in all their big earning years, and now it's not looking so good. so I'm really just fearful that they're going to come to us in time and need financial help. So I'm just not sure how to really navigate that. So I think...

Or maybe what discussions do you. Yeah, that's a great question. Let's just you and your wife get together and run the exercise. Like they call us. What are we going to say? Because you can't control them. The only person you can control in this equation is you. And so assume they're going to call and ask for money.

and have a pre-agreed-upon message from you and your wife as to what we will and will not support. Do you think your wife and you do agree on what that message should be, Mark? We do. And we have talked about it. Her and I are in complete agreement. I think the most frustrating part is that he, so they moved into a community and he's on the HOA board. And he's working almost 40 hours a week not being paid. Yeah, but man, go out and get a job.

Yeah, but like you're... You can't control that. Yeah, your compassion is real, dude, and I want to honor your compassion for your father-in-law. But what you're doing is you're taking his choices and potential future issues, and you're dragging them into your present, and you're the one dealing with them.

Or as they say, in NAA, you're drinking poison hoping he gets sick. You know what I mean? And so what I'm not going to do with the precious time I have with my wife on this planet is spend time worrying about other people's decisions, especially if we've already aligned on our response to the consequences of their decisions or the potential consequences, right?

That's anxiety is grabbing a potential outcome in the future into the present and trying to solve it now. That's just a recipe to ruin today. It doesn't solve any of their activities or actions, right? And so, yeah, he's making idiotic choices. He's making bad choices with his money, and he's trying to build reputation in his local community. A, I get that. If he just moved to a new place, he wants to be on the in-crowd and get to know. I get that.

And also, he can't afford to do that, right? But if y'all are already aligned on what your response will be, you've gone further than most married couples do. So I applaud you for that, man. Now your choice is to look at your wife and say, hey, what kind of fun can we have today? I don't know the other option other than just. to choose misery on a problem that you can't solve. Well, I'm curious. Your wife is, you know, they've given over the information to your wife.

She's helping them. Surely she has said to them, here's what I'm finding. You got 20 months left. And I'm sure she's made some suggestions. How have they reacted to that? Yeah. Yes, she has. And he just keeps saying, oh, I have a plan.

And we're like, but what's the plan, dude? Like, you're not telling us. and so we just don't really know. How old are they? He is 69 and she is, the wife is like 60. Okay. Are they with it? Like, are they, is everything still full capacity?

Is it possible that they have money or assets that you guys don't know about? If he says, I have a plan or I'm fine? Yeah, there's the other side. What if you just trusted him? Cool. They got a plan. Yeah, I guess you're right. I don't know of anything, but you get to, anything that you're thinking right now is the story you're making up, right?

Right. And so let's deal with a potential bad story and let's choose to make up the most positive version of this story. That's not being Pollyanna, that's not being in denial. That's just saying I get to choose which one of these things I meditate on every day. One of these stories that I make up is going to let me sleep a little bit better. And the other story is killing me. It's going to give me a stroke. and it's not going to change his financial habits at all.

Dude, I totally get your frustration. I mean, I get it deeper than you can possibly imagine. I won't talk about it on the air here. And at some point, you have to decide I'm not going to strangle myself and lose oxygen here over a problem I can't solve. I will have an answer for what comes. And so be it. Jay, we're just talking about this off air. if you and I and all of our teammates here on the Ramsey show, if we could just get people to,

if we could empower people to hear this message, you can only control you. That's it. I literally think the world changes. Absolutely. And I don't say that in a every man for himself, but like take care of your house, take care of you, and take care of the problems that are already in your lap. Don't create new ones and then drag them in to your lap. And if other people want to go do wild stuff, I don't like it. I hate it for them. I hate it for us. But I can't do anything about it. You don't have to attach yourself to it or it doesn't have to become the conversation that you guys circle around every night when you do dishes. Yeah. And maybe once a week. All right, 30 minutes. Let's just get it all out. And we just rag on. How could they do this? This is crazy. And then we're done. Let's go to dinner. Thanks for the call, Mark. I wish it were different. Let's go to Scott in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Scott?

Hi, how you doing? Doing great. Excellent. Let us have it. Okay, so I'm in this predicament where my friend from Primera, I just started by him, Roth, IRA, you know, with him. And he's telling me that, okay, so I have an investment property in Las Vegas, and I have a house here in St. Louis. I want to sell the investment property in Las Vegas, and I'll come out with about 250,000. I want to pay off.

The only two debts I have left are my Jeep and my house here in St. Louis. I can pay them off and be, you know, Scott Free Step 7, you know, on top of the world. Yes. You know, but my, he's telling me I'm the stupidest guy in the world because my mortgage, rate is only 2.85. Get a new financial advisor, dude. All right. Get a new one. He's forgotten that there are different, there's multiple components of money, right? We get caught up on the dollars and cents. We all know about numbers. Then there's the behaviors. You need to budget. You need to avoid debt. And then there's the emotional sense. And we talked about this earlier.

So much of money is emotional. It's how we want to feel. We want to be free. We want peace. It's who we are. He doesn't have to have to deal with your peace. He wants the arbitration. He didn't make any money if you're not investing the gap to him. Yes, sir. Yeah, he wants to give me a put. He says, take that 250, put it towards some kind of annuity. Dude, fire him today. Today.

Today. Okay. Today. All right. Well done. Because here's a thing. Bro, I'm telling you, I've been on both sides of this equation. When you sleep in a house that nobody can take from you.

Yes. I will pay 3% in what I call a sleep tax on what my mortgage, my interest rate is, versus when I could be theoretically getting in the market. I will pay that sleep tax every day of the week because no one could take my house. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, sir. Yes. I love that.

And there's the other part of it where if we do want to get into some facts and data we can, we've done the largest study of millionaires here at Ramsey. so much time was put into this study. And we found that when we look at millionaires, baby steps millionaires, net worth millionaires, whatever you want to call them, it was clear that these people, they valued paying off their houses. They paid for their homes, their home residences. They were maybe purchased with a mortgage, but it was a priority to pay them off to where they had that ownership. They had that piece. And so that's something that we know. It's not just an emotional thing. It shows itself in the numbers as well when we look at everyday

millionaires. And this is what I love about smart vester pros. You tell them what your goals are, and they lock arms with you to accomplish your goals. They don't call you stupid and try to sell you a product. We talked about it on our last call with Scott, but if you need help with investing, you need a good smart vester pro in your corner, someone who's going to listen to you, right? They're not going to sit back there and tell you that what you're doing is stupid and not explain it to you. You don't want that.

Our smart vester pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the the heart of a teacher. Hear that. Heart of the teacher. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years, which means these folks are going to sit down with you. They're going to listen to you. They're going to teach you. They're interested in you understanding so that you can work together. SmartVestor pros can create a plan to help you reach your goals and help you make informed investing decisions. We'll show you up to five SmartVestor pros in your area for free. And then it's up to you to vet them. You can interview them. You can decide which one you want to work with. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash smart vester to find an investing pro near you, or if you're

listening on YouTube or podcast, go ahead and click that link in the description. Hey, real quick, we were talking about this off air with Brother Scott there for that last caller. I like that dude. I did too. I always try to be compassionate here. So I want to put myself in the seat of his financial advisor. And I have a client that comes and says, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to sell a rental property that's in another state. Uh-huh. And I'm going to. And I'm going to, get $250,000 of equity. I want to pay off my house and pay off my Jeep. And it's a logical question.

What's your interest in your house? 2.9. Okay. I can get you, the market returns the last two years have been 23%. It can feel financially foolish to do that. Yes. And if you're looking at a calculator,

I want to honor that investment guy on the other side of the table. You're right. Yes. You're right. And I think that's where if you are walking in to sit with a financial professional, whether it's somebody you found in the yellow pages because I'm 180 years old that you found online or a smart investor. I think it's important to come in and say until I don't owe anybody anything, I'm solving for peace. And then we'll start solving for return.

And I get what you're saying. I appreciate it. By the way, I will never, ever, ever, ever put my money in an annuity. I know that you make more money on that. I'm not going to do it. But I do get there is a math problem. here where you think what I'm doing is foolish. And mathematically, I'll even agree with you. That's right. That's right. As for me in my house, we're solving for peace. We're solving for not

owing anybody anything. And then we'll start playing the calculator games. Yeah, John, I'm glad that you said that because that is so true. When that guy, when that guy called in and he said, yeah, my investor wants me to do this. My first brain goes to, well, yeah, like there's a lot worse you could do with that money. Right? And I want to remind people listening. We have a method that works and we have a way of thinking around here. And it's not just numbers. We're always factoring in the person. We're factoring in who you are and how you want to feel. Right? And that's been a theme throughout the show, even just today, where we're trying to solve for people's freedom. We're trying to solve for their peace. And that goes beyond mathematical equations. Math is certainly a part

of it. Numbers, of course, we're talking about money. Behavior is part of it. We talked about that before. And the emotional part is also very, very real. So when you say, sign up for the Ramsey plan. Yes, we're giving you a series of seven baby steps. Yes, we're telling you to budget. Yes, we're telling you to live on less than you make. But it's also that. And it's so that you can have, it's not just building wealth, but it's having this life of peace. And it's being able to give like no one else. So later you can give and live like no one else. Like that's the whole part of it. And so peace is at the core of that every single time. And so you're going to hear that theme throughout the show and we answer people's questions. All right. I love that discussion. But now we're

going to get to Jen who's in Scranton, Scranton, Pennsylvania. How can we help, Jen? Hi, John and Jade. How are you guys doing? Excellent. Ridiculous. We're running a scam called a podcast. It's the best. That's funny. That's funny. Well, I'm hoping that you can help my husband and I settle a disagreement. Yes, my favorite. Not that you guys are disagreeing. Just I like this type of call. Awesome. Our question is, should we be on the hook for part of the student loan debt that our son accrued due to that advice that he received from us when he started college when we ourselves didn't know any better about taking student loans. Great question.

So you advised him to take out the student loans back in the day? Yes, we did. And I don't even think he was really ready to go to college initially. So he changed his major a couple times. And there's some health issues thrown in there as well. So he's racked up about $60,000. luckily he's graduating in June with a Bachelor of Science and Supply Chain, Logistics, and Transportation Management. You know, he's job searching.

I don't know if he's necessarily the most motivated to job search right now. He is working full-time. But he, I don't know, I think morally because we gave him the bad advice and we kind of pushed him to go to college before he was ready, I kind of feel like we're on the hook morally for that. My husband, he's been in the trades. He never had any student loan debt. I myself, I'm a teacher, so I have a master's in teaching. So I got some student loan debt from, you know, for my profession.

I've since paid it off and whatnot. But so I thought that, you know, our son was just doing the normal thing. Yeah. So we have money. Yeah. The big question is money. Could you write him a check for 30 grand today? No, so here's the deal.

We're graduates of Financial Peace University. We're currently finishing Baby Step 2. We're going to have $113,000 of consumer debt paid off by June. This coming June? Yeah, this coming June. Yeah, so we're just, yeah, so we're really close. Thank you. So I don't know.

what do you guys think? Should we at some point help and pay it back? I want to say something mean, okay? Is that cool? Okay. Yeah, totally cool. And my husband's here right now with me too. Oh, nice. What's your husband's name? His name is Mike. All right, Mike. We hear you on the line. Chime in at any time. Okay, so here's, I have this conversation a lot with folks who called the show and they want to go into ministry. And they went and got a degree in something, and not necessarily a dumb thing. They got a degree in business, and they took out 70 grand, and they call and they say, quote, unquote, I feel like I'm being called to the ministry, right? Or I want to go do this other thing. And what I

always tell folks is, you dug yourself a hole that you have to, with integrity, refill before you start living into, that's why we tell people to don't go into debt, right? Because then you're faced with these moral dilemmas. And you, regardless of if you think, you morally have an obligation to your son, you don't have any money. And so you can't. And it might be something that you sit down with your son and you say, hey, we're this old and we're still wrestling with debt. We want to walk alongside you. And so in five years or in 10 years, if you've paid off this much, we'll be in a position to help you. This, like something like that. Okay. Jade and I may disagree. I like the way you're thinking. I wouldn't make it so caustic as

you've, like, it's not a moral failure, but I do love the Maya Angelou quote, like, do the best you can. And when you learn more, do better, right? Like, change what you know. And so I, I like that you are going, oh gosh, we told you to do this. And by the way, growing up in Houston, Texas, where it's a thousand degrees, when I was a kid playing soccer, like six, seven year old, we were not allowed to drink water during athletic events because the prevailing science was it would give you cramps. We had to eat orange slices. right? It's a madness. And my parents didn't know any better. None of the parents did. And so we'd be like, I need some water. I'm dying. And they're like, no water. It's bad for you. Right. And so as a parent,

you do the best you can. And then when you know better, then you sit down with your kids and say, man, I mess this up. And so here's the next thing going forward. And so when it comes to money, man, yeah, your kid took your advice and now he's 60 grand in the hole. And yeah, I think it's right for you to say, hey, we gave you bad advice. We don't have any money. We're working to dig this thing out. And we're going to like, man, the quicker you can get this paid off, that'd be awesome. And if we get in a position where we can help you, we're going to. And I would. I'd treat it like the baby steps. You know, you pay off your debt, save up the three to six months, start investing. And when you get to baby step five, if you want to say, instead of

putting money towards a 529, which is what we would and should have done, we're going to put that towards the debt payments and help you run this thing back. I actually really love that idea because that's probably what you would have done if you had a little bit more time, right? You would have put a certain amount aside every single month to put towards his education. And it's not too late to do that. It's just going to have a little interest on the side.

Right, it's on the back end. Exactly. Probably he didn't just take out loans just for tuition room and board. He probably took out the full loans and had his fund too, right? And so some of that, he needs to have some skin in the game too, I think, also. I don't know that you need to swoop in with $60,000.

and wipe it clean. But I like the idea of you saying, hey, we gave you bad advice. And so we're going to be a part of paying the Piper on this, but he has to have some skin in the game, too. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Jay. This is John. And we're going back to the phone lines where we have Mark in Charleston, South Carolina. Hey, Mark, how are you? Good. How are you? Doing good. How can John and I help? So I was really close to, I was $300 away from being financially, or debt free aside from my car and mortgage and then a bad life event, send me spiraling down. And I have recollected all of that debt back.

So I'm currently, including house and car, I'm 169 in the hole with about $20,000. in personal debts. What happened, man? The mother of my child cheated on me with a guy that she was employed for and send me back down to an unholy lifestyle, I should say. Can we, can we, as we dig out of this, and Jade's going to give you an ironclad path, okay? Okay. But here's where I want to start with it. okay yeah a real bad thing happened and what is my and going to be and it's my responsibility

i want you to own i went and chose to handle this bad thing in these ways i did yes okay there's no doubt about that okay um that ownership is critical for the next step yeah right and so man i hate that that dude i wouldn't wish that on anybody i hate that happen to you and I hate that like your default setting was I'm going to go run back and make a bunch of bad decisions and unhealthy decisions and here I am. And so that sense of ownership will be what gets you out of this mess. Cool? Yeah.

All right. Same team. So let's spread it out because I do think that mentally it helps when, and this is for anybody, when you're listing out your debt smallest to largest, baby step two, which is the step that we pay off consumer debt. It is just that. It's consumer debt. And so let's leave the mortgage out of it for a moment.

And that's going to help you mentally to get your head around what the task at hand is. So can you tell me what your debt is aside from the mortgage? $65,9-11. Okay. And I want you to list out what those are. For now, they don't need to be smallest to largest. Just list out what they are. Oh, yeah, they are.

So, like, tell me how much the car is. Tell me how much is on credit cards. me how much is personal loans that sort of deal? Okay, so the car I have 37178. Personal loans that are right now past due are 18 to 88. Okay. And then the rest are all in collections, which is 10,44. Okay. So the good news is I see a couple of things right away that we can do to get you some quick wins because when you're in Baby Step 2 paying off the consumer debt, it's all about quick wins. That's how you maintain just feeling good about it, right? Thank you. I was looking for the word. That's how you maintain momentum. And that's for anybody listening. So whenever you have debts and collections, that can feel terrible because you've overdue and they're blown up your line. 1,800 pay me is calling you. But the good news is now you have bargaining power. And so instead of paying $10,400, you're going to pay like 30% of this. And so you're going to save up.

Your first number one goal is, okay, let me just, instead of paying them a bunch of small payments or coming up with a payment plan, I'm going to meet my other minimum payments. And I'm going to stack up any other margin that I can for a little while. And I'm going to save up, I don't know, $3,000 or $4,000. And then I'm going to call them up and I'm going to settle all of these individually for cash. and I'm looking for 20 to 30% of the actual what to do. So if you have one that's $4,000, you can offer them to $200, two or $300 and see if they'll take it.

Do you see what I'm saying? Okay. And when you do that, you want to make sure you get the deal in writing before you pay. Don't give them access to your checking account, and you want to make sure it's in writing first, and they will do it. They have the means to do that. So if you talk to someone on the line that says, well, I don't know if I can do that. Yes, you can.

Hang up and call to the next person, okay? So you're going to have to, that's going to feel like a full-time job to do that. But trust me, it's going to be worth it. You're going to save $7,000 doing it that way. Okay, so that's homework number one. Homework number two that I see right off the bat is this car. So it's 37,000. Do you happen to know offhand what it's worth?

Probably around 35. Love that for you. Sweet. Okay. So you have a couple of options. I don't know what your income is. tell me what your income is. So reliably, my, so I'm on VA disability.

Reliably, it is $4,080. Okay. And what is it unreliably? Unreliably, it can vary from six to seven grand. Okay. What's the 2000 that you're getting that, doesn't always come through. From a side hustle.

Okay. What keeps you from getting a full-time job? Like even at Home Depot. Well, it kind of is my full-time job. So the mother of my son and I, we share custody and the days I have him, I don't work. And that's only due to lack of support right now. But hopefully my parents, my parents and I have found an opportunity for them to move down here to where I'm at. And they can help out.

So after that, then I can turn this side hustle into a full-time business operation. Okay. What does child care look like? Like when you, how old is your son? He's five. So is he in school? He goes to school right now. but he only goes to school for three hours a day because he's in early childhood development because, yeah, he has autism.

Okay. Okay. So for now, and I know you're working on that, but just for today, we'll say that I think that the best thing for you to do right now is to save up the margin from your $4 to $6,000 and do this debt collections deal. And in the meantime, yeah, I'm going to go over to the credit union and I'm going to say, hey, I need a $7,000 loan. and 2,000 of that is going to go to meet the difference on this car, and then the other 5,000 is so that you can get a junker in cash to keep yourself going. Maybe you spend 6,000, but the point is, I want you going down in debt from 37,000 to around 5 or 8,000. Do you see what I'm saying there?

Yeah. Now, my guess is that your credit is horrible. It's, yeah, terrible. Yes. At this point, and I'm just telling you this, I think that any of the, is going to be better for you. As far as interest rate, I'm not saying get a payday loan. Never, never do that.

But if you have, if you can put it on a credit card, if you can put it on any sort of personal loan, that is going to be good for you because we're going from $37,000 to $8,000, right? So this is a good thing. And now that you've got the momentum back, you'll have that money back in your pocket. You can knock that debt out because that now becomes your smallest debt aside from the collections, okay? And so once the collections are settled, now we're tackling that person.

loan that you took out in order to get out of this car. And in the meantime, you're selling that car, Kelly Blue Book, personal sale is what you're looking to do. And that's going to free up so much money because I know that that car payment is going to go back into your pocket. And then from there, now we can start working on the personal loan that's past due. And because it is personal, you might be able to pop in there and make a deal on that too. Likely not. But at least now at this point, we're just looking at chopping down an $8,000 tree, which you can do. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next.

Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free. to use. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. All right, we've got Kelly, who's calling in from L.A.

What's going on? Kelly. How can we help today? Hello. We spend $1,700 or more on gas every single month, and I want to know if we should get a hybrid. That's a lot. Whoa. That's a lot.

So, to put it in context, I've filled up today. my truck, and it was the most expensive it's ever been by like $25. And I actually, Jade and I were talking off air, like the thought of me struggling to make it. And then all of a sudden, I've got to fill up once a week and I have an extra $100. Like, that's a lot of money. Yeah. Where do you get $1,700 a month, though? So my husband is a private investigator.

He works in his car. Yep. If they turn it off, then he's like cooking. So the engine's always running. and he has to travel really far distances about a year ago. He bought a truck, and then it went up because the past mileage was really bad. So it's just added up, and now the more he works, the more it costs us. Yeah.

Is he in a position where, like everybody's having to do right now, where he can escalate his rates to cover the gas? I mean, they have like a gas reimbursement, but it's only, I think, like, 803. since a mile or whatever. And it hasn't gone up? It was that at before it, yeah, it hasn't increased. I'd be, if I were him, I'd ask about that. I'd say, hey, obviously, you know, and I don't know how long he's been working for that

company. Let's say he's been there since 2020 and the rate's never gone up. I'd say, hey, I've been here. This has always been the reimbursement rate. Obviously, prices have gone up. Is it possible that we can adjust this with inflation? Because I'm spending this X amount of percentage more than I was in, you know, when things started and kind of just lay out the numbers in a diplomatic way.

Yeah, I talked to one person who works in the oil and gas industry, and he said they're doing something called a supercharge, which is we're telling y'all as customers right now, it's going to go up, but it's not a permanent price increase. It's just because things are bananas right now and so uncertain. What keeps you all from just taking the truck down and trading it in for a Prius? Yeah. I don't know I actually had never even thought of that

Yeah We got the truck for about 9,000 He really wants the same truck because he's kind of tall So he wants something where he can spit I'm a big guy too And I drove a Prius for years And Dave used to laugh at me But I'd say what, that thing got a million miles to the gallon

It's pretty sweet Could you sit in it for 12 hours a day Oh yeah, it was awesome Oh, maybe we should look into trading it in then Well, like, and let me be super, like, transparent. I don't drive one anymore. Now I drive a truck, right? But it's less for, it's less because I'm a tall guy and more because I do a lot of outdoor stuff.

And I got place out in the woods that I've always having to use a, I use the truck, if that makes sense. But get something as comfortable, but yeah, split the difference and get what makes sense. But the point is you're going down and you're going to a vehicle that has better gas mileage. That's the point. And obviously not going into debt for it. And that's the main thing for me is like pan out from the gas situation. Millions of people right now are having to deal with the fact that their job is different now. Whether it's because of AI, what's because of gas prices, it's become energy sectors is a zoo right now.

Like whatever you're having to do, step back and ask yourself, what changes do we need to make in our house? We don't want to be making these changes, not by our hand, but it's in our lap. I've got to make some changes. And stay inside your value system, which is we're not going to borrow any money. We're not going to leverage this moment and get ourselves in a two or five or 10 year dilemma because we were uncomfortable right now. And so either you all need to adjust your spending up or down to accommodate the increased gas prices or maybe his boss will say you're right. Or maybe 83 cents a gallon. I mean, 83 cents a mile of reimbursement.

That's pretty good reimbursement. maybe all we're using the extra as to pay bills with, and now it just needs to go with what the reimbursement's designed for, which is to pay for the gas, and you've got to cut spending somewhere else. Or maybe you just go take the truck and get a used Prius or used hybrid Camry, and you're off to the races.

But it doesn't give you permission to go be reckless with your spending and borrowing. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes, everybody's feeling the gas prices go up. All right, John is in Denver, Colorado. John, how can we help you today? Thanks for taking my call. So I'm a bit of a pickle, and I'm just wondering if I should sell my house.

Interesting. Give us the deets. I love pickles. So, yeah, a little bit delicious, but maybe not this one. So I bought my house around two years ago with a friend and a few family members. And the plan, yeah. Strike one, strike two, strike three. When you say that, can you clarify that?

Can you clarify, when you say you bought it with them, is everybody's name on the mortgage? No, unfortunately, it's just me. So you're the only one on the mortgage? No, that's actually good. That's probably the best case scenario, actually. Okay, so you bought the house with your brother and two friends? My sister, her fiance and a friend, yeah. Sister, fiancé, and friend, okay.

And basically, I'm in a situation right now where almost all of them have completely moved out. And now my mortgage is looking like it's going to go up, like around 200, 200, 200. $200 by June. Okay. So. Why? Do you have an adjustable rate mortgage? It's not an adjustable rate mortgage. I think it has to do with my property taxes. Yeah.

Okay. So it's going up by $200. Unfortunately, the value of my house has gone down. So I think if I sell it, I'd talk to my real estate agent and I got it down to a reasonable price. Why did the value go down? Or did you overpay? The value actually, when it was evaluated when I bought my, house was actually, I think, like, 15 more than what I paid for it. I think there's just not a lot of good comps in the area. So there's not, like, the value ends up being a little bit less than it

was. Tell us real numbers. Tell us what you bought it for and what you think it's worth. So I bought it for $460. It evaluated for at $4.75. Okay. And I just got an appraisal like a few months ago because I was fine I'm doing a refinance and it evaluated at $450. Yikes, I'm sorry. Yeah, quite a bit of a difference. So I'm in kind of a situation right now where I did the math and it's looking like

after commissions for the sellers and buyers agent I'm going to be losing money on it. But is it worth it to just do that, take on like a little debt and just pay that off or hold out even though realistically it's going to be really tight being just me. How much is a little money? Because one time I took $4,000 to closing with me to get out of a house. And that was the beginning of me and my wife starting Baby Step 2.

And it ended up changing our entire life. If you're talking about you're going to be $50,000, now that's a different story. I think with fees you're going to be getting close to 30. Yeah, it's looking like at worst, it's going to be around 30. And at best, if it doesn't, you know, if I don't sell it at a reasonable price, it's going to be around like 15. So not great. But at least like if I were to get like a personal loan and come up with a little bit of money

myself, like maybe cover a little bit of a difference, you know, I can't see myself taking more than like a year if I work really hard to pay that off. Well, because I'm also thinking you've got time, like when the house goes on the market, Like you've got a couple of months there to save up some cash. Like, realistically, in three months, how much cash could you save up? I mean, I know it's hard because you don't have roommates anymore and you're trying to pay this big old mortgage. But is there anything you could do to start stacking some money towards this? I don't know, to be honest, with no help, it's going to be really tight.

It's the problem. The reason why I want to sell in the first place is because I feel like it's going to be so tight. I'm not going to be able to put money away. Can you like? And I'm going to be a situation, you know, where if something happens, I just end up losing the house anyway. Can you rent out the rooms? Can you do, like, temporary rent out the rooms to other folks while you get this money together to sell the house? You know, I've looked for, I've been looking for rentals when people first started leaving. And I haven't really had any luck with that.

I've tried furnished finders. I've tried reaching out on, like, Facebook Marketplace, joining groups. And I've even lowered the price three times at this point. And maybe it's just because they don't want to have like a roommate or, I, I'm not exactly sure, but I just haven't had any luck finding someone interested. I mean, this is a cautionary tale. We tell folks all the time, you know, do not buy a house with the intent that somebody else is going to help you prop up the mortgage payment because this sort of thing happens all

the time. The only way out of this is through it, you're either going to have to take a personal loan for the difference and eat that cost, or you're going to have to find a way to buy yourself time with roommates or stacking up the cash yourself. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices. interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts

who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey Solutions.com slash agent. That's Ramsey Solutions.com slash a... The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection that you need. All right, we got Sam, who's in Fresno, California. Sam, how can we help today? Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. So I am a single mom of a nine-year-old.

her dad hasn't been around for about five years. He actually gave up parenting time if I agreed not to pursue the court order child support. I spent $100,000 on legal and travel expenses, and that just had a major financial and mental impact on me. I'm sorry, how much did you say you spent? $100,000. Oh, wow. Why? Wow.

He wasn't looking to reach an agreement. he was just looking to ruin my life, which she did. Okay. So I'm in a great relationship now. You know, we're making future plans talking about what, you know, marriage might look like for us. And we have discussed me potentially working less to be more present for my daughter. And, you know, I'm aware that I'm the one with the child. He doesn't have any kids.

And I don't want to put more on him than is fair. I've had resentment in past relatives. I do not want to recreate that. So how do I lead into building a life and finances together without feeling like I'm taking from him or like I don't deserve that? I think you're asking like three different questions at once. And that's why the outcome feels so heavy.

And so number one, your body's working perfectly. Like, your child's dad gave your child up for a number, right? Like, what kind of scumbag does that? I get divorce. I get breakups, but I can't... My daughter's been gone for two days. She comes back today, and I haven't been able to catch my breath. And I'm not special, right?

So, like, your body has a lived experience with a terrible human being. And so forget the money and forget the support. port and all that. Your body is saying, hey, we've run this before and it doesn't end well. And all that means is it's just trying to keep you safe. The second part of it is the story you're telling about this is my body feels a certain way. It must be because I don't deserve it. You're making up a story about yourself, right? Yeah. And so what we're going to stop doing is making up stories about ourselves. We're just going to tell the truth. And the truth is I'm worth being loved. I'm worth being a relationship where I'm safe. I'm worth being not connected to a

scumbag who would give his child up for a number. And that tells me all I need to know about a grown man. Right. Like so all that kind of stuff. The third part of this is you're obviously really smart and really talented. Fair? Yeah. Okay. So you know just looking at data that attaching yourself to a boyfriend, no matter how stable he is, how great of a guy he is. He might be awesome. That still puts you in a very vulnerable position. Uh-huh. Right? Because you're trying to build something, you're trying to build a house without a foundation without legal protection, without emotional, like we looked at each other in front of our friends and family and priests and God and said, till death to his party. Like, you're trying to build

a house without that foundation. And your body's right to sound that alarm. And so I would rather, you may be past dating, right? That sounds like 16 year olds do, right? But y'all are boyfriend and girlfriend. It's awesome. Nobody roots for love more than I do. I love it, right? And so now is we're going to talk about values conversations. Who do we want to be? What kind of life do we want to build together? And then when you're ready to say I do, and he's ready to say I do, put his money in his actions where his mouth is and you too, then we're going to start combining money because now I've got a foundation that's, yes, it's got some legal protection, yes, it's got some emotional spiritual protection, but it's you and I, we put a stake in the ground on this day at this time in front of these

people and said till death to us part. And now we're going to say, let's share a checking account. And then you're going to have to practice. I say this with a smile on my face. If you were here in person, you'd see me smiling, right? Like some of it, this sounds so callous. You're just going to have to get over. Like, I don't want to feel resentment because he loves me and wants to take care of me. And then you're going to have to go, I have that feeling. feeling's dumb, right? And I'm going to, like, if we're married, we're building a life together, and I'm going to be a part-time mom, and he's going to be the full-time employee, awesome, because we are building something together. Right? And he is in a relationship. He's thinking

about marrying a woman who got done real, real wrong. And so he has to know part of him loving you well is being extra transparent, extra honest, extra patient with big feelings. Because your big feelings are right. They've kept you safe up until now, right? Yeah. Yeah, they are. You get what I'm saying? So there's multiple problems here and you think it's all one big bucket and then you feel crazy. When you pull the problems apart, man, my body's working pretty dang good. I'm not going to start building a house without a foundation under it. I'll start talking about the design, the architecture and design plans. That's awesome. But we're not going to start building. And, man, until that day, I'm taking care of me and mine,

because that's what I got. That's my responsibility as the adult and the parent of this kid. Yeah, I can't ever let go of that. Like, it's been so long. It'll hang on to you until you practice being seen and known by somebody else.

You're going to have to, it sounds nutty. You're going to have to teach your nervous system, not intellectually, but through practice, that I am worth being loved, and that's hard to do. It just takes time. It takes practice. Yeah.

But you're saying like you are, on the right path. Yeah. And I know that doesn't feel like you're on the right path, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like me and you are, this guy has won the lottery with you. He thinks so. Okay. Do you believe him?

Well, I'm working on it. I am working on it. That's awesome. That's good. That's a win. That means you're moving in the right. You don't just say, no, I don't believe him. You're like, I'm working on it.

That's awesome. That's awesome. yeah yeah it's definitely like we've been together yeah well i mean it sounds like you're on the on the right path here but if you were my sister if you're my daughter i i would your body would be working perfectly if it was like man i don't know if i should go all in and let this boyfriend of mine take care of me and make myself economically vulnerable emotionally vulnerable relational vulnerable bring another man into my daughter's life after she's already had just nonsense in her first image of of a male role model.

Like, your body's right to not anchor into that. Wow. To not build a house without a foundation. So your body's working pretty good. I love that. I think we have time to take Matthew and Virginia Beach. Matthew, we're up against the clock, but I think we can help you. What you got?

Hi. I have about $140,000 for my engineering degree that I got. I'm in student loan debt. I built up about $70,000 between my savings and my brokerage. account. It's kind of tough because the numbers kind of say long term I'd make more money. If I would leave invested, but I could pull it out and pay off my debt. Listen, I'm going to take that money every single time and use it to pay off debt, only because, and I said it earlier in the show, but I'm going to say it again, one thing we

believe around here, and we know it because we've seen it work with millions of people and not just folks out there. John's done it. I've done it. George, all of us. And we know. We know that your income is the biggest wealth building tool you have. You need your income at your disposal and that's the way that you build wealth. So as long as you're paying money in debt payments, you do not have your full income at your disposal, nor do you have your full range of peace or freedom. And so by you taking this money out of savings, this is non-retirement funds, I'm assuming, you can take that money out of a brokerage account, cash it in, and pay off this debt, you are one step closer to freedom. And you're one step in the right direction to having the

full power of your income work for you. And so I would do that every single day, a million times to find that freedom. John? I mean, yeah. That's the easy. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the easy button. That's a no-brainer for me. And I get it. We all like the feeling of seeing a pile of money sitting there. But if you just do basic math, you will realize very quickly, if I have $140,000, but I have $70,000 of debt, or if I have $70,000, I'm sorry, in cash, but I have $140,000 of debt. I don't actually have $70,000. I'm negative $70. You're just holding the bank's $70,000 for them. That's right. So the math will also tell you that we're right. When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing,

not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our every dollar budget app. Every dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the

every dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today. Our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, Joshua 1,8. Keep this book of the law always on your lips. Meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be

prosperous and successful. J.K. Rowling said this. British accent. Do it. It is impossible to live without failing at something. Unless you live so cautiously, you might as well not have lived at all. Terrible.

That was horrible. I mean. Harry. Moving on. Moving on, we've got Lucy who's in San Jose, Lucy is in San Jose, California, not San Josie. How can we help Lucy? Hi, how are you guys? Good.

What's up? How can we help? Yeah, so I'm in kind of a difficult situation. I'll kind of explain my debt first and then the situation. So I have $57,000 in student loan debt, and the interest is around 6%. My payments are $640 a month. I do have 13 months left of forbearance. So if I needed to defer at any point, I am able to do that.

But obviously, the interest is still accruing if I do go on forbearance. That's right. I have $13,000 in a car payment. My car broke about nine months ago, and I just got a new car, used car. Okay. The payments on that are $275 a month, and it is a 9% interest rate. I have no idea why I have good credit, but I tried to get it lower, and I couldn't. So that's at 9%.

Okay. And that's my debt. And I have $14,500 saved. And my dilemma right now is that I've been having a lot of health issues. I had to get a couple of surgeries just from actually injuries, like accidents. And following that, I started to have like a lot of health issues, just like insomnia and other things that kind of started from that. And my health is kind of like really deteriorated.

I'm 30 years old. I just turned 30 in March. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And then also I realized that I have mold in my apartment. Oh, boy. It's hidden, but it's definitely here. And I've spent a lot of money out of pocket trying to like get the apartment complex to do something. And they're basically because of the air test they did, they're saying that it's not significant enough. How do you know, how do you know that it is significant enough? enough? Well, to be honest, like just to save your guys this time, it's really hard to know

what you're dealing with unless you can find it and it's hidden. And I know that it's here because my apartment has a very earthy, bad smell when everything's closed up. And it even kind of lingers even when everything's open. And when they tested it, it just didn't, it didn't show that there was mold or that there was enough mold? Right. It said there's a normal amount of mold and apparently the air test isn't super accurate because it's kind of like a point in time so it's like it could fluctuate right and so to be honest with you I don't know that it's affecting my health yet and it's also very hard to know because when's the lease up I've had so I'm on a month to month lease which is nice you're out so roll out move yeah so here's what I did um and just so you guys

No, I do make good income. I make $1.35 a year. And after I live in California, which is a mistake. I'm going to try to get out of here. But I, after taxes and everything, I take home $7,100 a month. Good. Go ahead. Sorry.

Oh, no, I'm saying that's good. Get to your question. Tell me what you're trying to do. Okay, so here's where I messed up. So ideally, I want to pay off my debt as soon as. possible. If I stayed in a rent range that I'm at now, I paid $2,500 with everything, I could save like $2,000 a month, which is great, or not save, but put that towards my debt. Sure. What I made the mistake of doing is my emotions took over, and I found an apartment

that would be really good for my health and that I really like. And rent here is just insane. I got locked into a good rate because I moved during the pandemic. You already took the lease. You already signed up for something new? I did sign it. So my question is, is like, do I, do I break it because it's 3,400 a month? That's with everything. And given the debt that I'm in, I, I just, yeah. So I probably need to pay the first month's rent because it will definitely get rented quick.

It's a great place, which is 3,400. But on top of that, I'm going to have to pay rent where I am until I find a new spot. That's hopefully cheaper, but it might not even do that much. Which you were going to have to do anyway. Yeah. So that part is, that part's neither here nor. there because you signed a lease anyway that you were going to have to pay two rents, which is wild. Oh, no, no. I wouldn't pay two rent, actually, because the date that I selected as my moving date,

there wouldn't be a double rent. So it would just be for the one. But hold on. You have $14,000 saved. I would take that first month's rent, go hand it to them and say, I'm out of this lease. I haven't even moved in. And I'm breaking the lease. And if you got cash, thank goodness.

Yes. And then on your drive home, have three. other apartments you go look at. Okay. It's this, all of this emotion and the story is compounding on itself and it's a really simple, I'm going to pay $3,400 and we jokingly say it's your stupid tax. I did something dumb, right? I got emotional and I did a thing.

Cool. We've all done it. And it's going to cost me that. And I'm going to be down to, what is that? 10,000, 11,000. Right? In savings. And then I'm going to, on the way home, I'm going to put a deposit down a new place and

then call it. Yep. Okay. Yeah, and I should get my deposit back from them. Sagan? I actually had 18,000 saved, but I had to pay a $3,000 deposit. And you won't get that back. Or will you?

I should get it back. I don't think they can legally keep it because I didn't move in. Okay, great. Like, there's no cleaning or anything else. Well, then it might just be your own $400. Yeah. Plus the rent that I'm paying here. So, yeah, it would be like I'd be losing like $5,000.

That's fine. John and I are fine with all of that. You cannot stay at the new apartment. so if it costs, whether it costs you $500 more to get out or $5,000. You got to leave. You got to leave because you can't handle that rent. And then from there, I did the math and I should still be able to save. You can't handle it.

Around $900 to $1,000, but you think it's not worth of. Darling, you're broke. You've got $57,000 of student loan debt. Yeah, you're broke, hon. And I say that because I love you. Like, you don't have any money. Okay. And you're going to feel house poor.

And it's going to take you. double as long because to your point, it's going to cut into your margin by over $1,000. So it's going to say you double as long to pay off the debt. That's, it's not worth it. And what was your car note again? How much do you owe on that car? $640 a month? No, it's $275 a month. No, no, no. So this, yeah, 275. Yeah, you know, I think I was trying to justify it like this is a one-year commitment to get my health in order. I know, but just to tell me how, tell me how much you owe on your, on your car. 13,000. Yeah, I just got the car in February, I put $2,000 down.

Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go settle up with the apartment complex, ASAP, today. Uh-huh. Because here's the thing. I know about autoimmune issues and overall general health issues, the more stress you have, the more all those things are exacerbated. Right. And so let's stop going, like, let's don't say, like, I'm going to take a year for my health because your body is going to register 50 to 60% of my take home income is in this apartment.

Right. It will know you're not safe. it will know that debt's only going up because I can't even barely keep up with the, you're going to pay minimums on your student loans and the balance is going to move $1. Right. And so your body will be keeping that score to quote VanderKulch. So let's go get cleaned out of that. And then this afternoon with whatever cash you have left minus $1,000, I want you to pay the car off.

Yep. Keep $1,000 saved. That's your starter emergency fund, no matter what, keep a thousand. Just take action on these things. Yeah. Okay. No, that's what I figured you were going to tell me to do. I think I just needed that reminder.

Yeah, it's hard just with the health stuff. It is. But this is going to help your health. Yeah. This is going to help you, to John's point. Reducing stress. Yes. And there's just something good about taking action.

Like, you feel like, okay, I've actually done something. I didn't just get the research. I didn't just ask more and more questions. I actually went and did the thing and I can see the results. And I think that if you literally take to heart exactly what John said, which is I'm doing this. I don't know what time it is in San Jose, but if it's past business hours,

I'm doing this tomorrow. I'm waking up bright and early. I'm going down to the apartment complex. I'm paying whatever I owe them. They're going to refund me back what they owe me for the deposit. Then from there, I'm literally going back home. I'm making the final payment online on my car. I'm keeping the $1,000 aside.

I'm going down the bank. I'm putting it in a high-yield savings account. You will have done three major things for your future in less than 24 hours. And all you'll have left is $57,000 on student loan. Love that. Then you're free. All right, we're out of here. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.