The Reel Rejects - BRILLIANT! Avengers: Doomsday & Secret Wars DELAYED + Spider-Man 4 Villain REVEALED?!

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Starting point is 00:01:14 Hashtag, you got this. This video is brought to you by DC Studios Showcase, the official podcast featuring our very own. coy genre. More on them in just a bit. Citizens of the Reject Nation, we got ourselves a couple of big things to talk about. We're starting shooting this late, which is great because a big news story happened to drop in the middle of this delay. Sometimes God loves to rain upon us with beautiful, glorious news. News that I feel very positive about. I feel so good about this news, dude. So we've got to talk about Avengers Doom's Day and Avengers Secret Wars.

Starting point is 00:01:46 Spider-Man brand new day. There was this Disney event that occurred. A couple of other news stories. There's video chapters here. I want to kick it off with something extremely positive. I want to talk about with all of you. I've been waiting for this podcast to share to Coy directly leave a like on this video. By the way, we upload these every single Friday, Real Rejects podcast. So yes, if you want to skip this part, you can, but I really want to share this story. I've been waiting a week. Roxy got invited to do a shrinking set visit. And the way it was pitched, it wasn't pitched of like it felt like an influencer one of like you're just going to look at the sets like one of those

Starting point is 00:02:24 yeah and then you can attend the panel that they're going to do great that's how i read it and that's kind of how we interpreted it and roxy knows i'm a huge fan of the show shrinking shrinking is the show that stars harrison ford and jason seagull on apple plus uh it is one of my favorite shows and if it ends when the series eventually ends if it ends successfully it'll go down as one of my all-time favorite shows if you haven't seen it go watch it so and roxy knows how i'm love it i am with it so she we started the podcast. The first thing we ever talked about was shrinking. So I was enthusiastic about going and we were waiting in this giant line at the Warner Brothers lot. It was this four-year consideration panel that they're doing. And the entire time when I'm kicking it with Roxy,

Starting point is 00:03:04 I'm telling her, oh man, I'm just so excited. I don't care if as long as we're like relatively close to the panel, that's all I need. Like I've been telling you, oh man, it'd be so cool to like see Harrison Ford Live. That's all I've been saying. See. Harrison Ford live. And I am eternally grateful to Roxy because she let me, she's been a massive, you know, champion for Apple TV. And so have you.

Starting point is 00:03:29 Yeah, both of you guys. I don't know too many people who talk about Apple TV to me, but you and Roxy are the two who talk about Apple TV a lot to me. And then we get that the person who invited Roxy, agency for Apple, finds her and me, and they bring us to a different line because apparently

Starting point is 00:03:47 they were supposed to be with this content creator group. And I was like, oh, okay. A couple minutes ago, I was just saying I'm happy we're not with a couple of influencers. But okay, yeah, sure, whatever. And I was excited. I was really excited because I'm like, oh, we're going to get a little bit of special treatment. Skip this line.

Starting point is 00:04:03 When we're with these content creators, the craziest thing dawned on me while we were talking. I said to them out loud, this is weird. We're all fans of the show. Not common. why I'm bringing that up and Koi will know better than anybody a lot of these influencer events for these big studios are there

Starting point is 00:04:24 for people to take photos and get the hell out a lot of them are not fans a lot of them don't give a shit yep um sometimes it's bother rare does it bother me sometimes it bothers me depending on the property you know like I I remember I know this person so if he's watching

Starting point is 00:04:40 he's probably gonna be upset what I'm gonna say it anyway there's this person like when we went to this doctor who event there was somebody who dressed up in a doctor who outfit a whole suit got a photo with the doctor never seen the show and it's like shit like that you know yeah dude so they're there

Starting point is 00:04:55 I call them Wikipedia hosts they're my least favorite thing people don't read the bio read a log line and go and then they they danced on TikTok got two million subscribers and all of a sudden they're an expert lies I hate it that's usually what it is and then the people at Apple were like we just want to invite real fans it's like a lot of times the

Starting point is 00:05:12 followers have to be enormous followings to go to these things and a lot of them were like 30 to 60,000 followers on their social media platforms. And I thought that is so rare. Super rare. And I was over the moon about that. I'm like, oh, these are like great people who actually care about the fans.

Starting point is 00:05:27 That's awesome. So we're walking to the first set. After meeting the production design team, we go to the first room. I'm recording. They open the door. We got to rise for you. First person Harrison Ford.

Starting point is 00:05:40 It's fucking Harrison Ford. And I am like kind of freaking out. right now internally and i'm trying to play it cool he makes a joke roxy seems way more used to this and acclimated quickly to the situation much faster than i did people are asking we're and he's a therapist in the show and he's standing behind his desk and he's asking questions he's taking questions um him and lukita maxwell and they're at they're getting questions the whole time i'm like clutching this chair like sweating going like i got to think of a question i got to think of a question I'm like, I have a perfect question I want to ask.

Starting point is 00:06:15 I have a perfect question. It's so different than what everyone else is asking. Roxy then asks her question, and it is almost exactly the question that I had. And I'm like, that's great that she got the question, and this is really her event, and I'm here because of her. That's good. That's good. But I need to think of something else now. And then she starts, Alice starts, the person is Alice starts answering.

Starting point is 00:06:39 And then I think of a question to follow it up with Roxy. And I asked a question to Harrison. I said, did this show, working on this show, hasn't made you more vulnerable in real life conversation. And he proceeds to answer.

Starting point is 00:06:52 And he gives the most genuine, sincere, not the sardonic, sarcastic Harrison Ford that I kind of expected, a very long, sincere answer to which I heard none of it. Because Harrison Ford's answering my question. I'm literally recording him,

Starting point is 00:07:07 like trying to be subtle. And I'm like, uh-huh, mm-hmm, picking up on facial cues. Mm-hmm. But the whole time, like, Harrison Ford's making eye contact me. Harrison Ford's looking at me, right?

Starting point is 00:07:16 Like, that's Harrison. I do not hear a single word the man is saying at this moment, which is great. I'm really plugging myself to get future interviews. The man wants to go to all these events and not make a fool of himself. Oh, my God, Harrison Ford. And the Apple team was so kind. They were like, that's such, you guys have such great questions. Because then we got to meet the rest of the cast, Jason Goldstein, Jason Seagull,

Starting point is 00:07:37 Brett Goldstein, everyone. It was phenomenal. It was one of the greatest days of my YouTube career. I was texting Olivia all night. Like, I wish you were here. She does not give a shit about the show. But I love that she knows how much I'm in love with the show. She hasn't seen it yet, in all fairness.

Starting point is 00:07:53 But it was one of the greatest days ever. And I only wanted to see Harrison Ford. I got to meet him, and that's thanks to Roxy. Dude, that's so cool. I owe her a lot that there's a bucket list that she knocked off. And, yeah, you could watch the whole thing on social media. And there's a vlog that we're also uploading as well. But yeah, I wanted to share that.

Starting point is 00:08:15 And Greg, that's to hear what Harrison actually said by watching the replay of his own. I was so nervous to play back because I edited that video myself. Did I say words? Yeah. I was like, did I actually ask a good question? It seemed like he was really answering the question. Cuts you watching. You're like,

Starting point is 00:08:27 Is this young man okay? I'm going to make eye contact and try to bring him back. I'm so glad that went well. And that's so special. Yeah. I know how much the show means to you. I know how much his work on the show means to you. And I know how much it resonates when you meet someone that you've seen since you were a child that you've respected the work of,

Starting point is 00:08:47 especially someone that's known for being a commodging. And then you get an real connection. That's what it's all about to me is like you want to give someone a little bit of light back that they gave you your whole life. Like the reason I like doing interviews is if I can give someone a little morsel of like, hey, you've given me 30 years of stuff. If I can give you a 30 second thing that makes you realize I did that, I've done it. And to me, that's what interviews uniquely do. And it's so special when it's someone that it's like a lifelong thing. So that makes me happy.

Starting point is 00:09:17 I mean, like Jason, I love the whole cast, but, you know, Harrison Ford was obviously like the pinnacle, the one you want to meet, right? And Jason Segal was unbelievably nice as well. And it was cool because the cast seemed like they really wanted to interact and participate. And they felt like genuinely like they leaped off the screen. I love that Apple brought people that cared. That was the coolest part. That's why those people got to. The reason the actors.

Starting point is 00:09:39 got to interact with people is because they weren't there to be props. Yeah. Like, if you invite fans, you have fans interacting with the people on the show, not people that are like, I mean, short of the glory of Harrison Ford, the average person gets to interact with the people in the show about the show.

Starting point is 00:09:56 There's always going to be in the back of your head. Oh my God, Indiana Jones and Hans Hollow are here. But it's about the show when you invite fans. So I hope that becomes more of the trend. Like, I do think the ebb and flow of social media, we've reached an apex and it's starting to dip. And I think we're going to see more of the specificity, I hope, and I would love if more people become like Apple, where

Starting point is 00:10:14 the job of inviting people becomes twofold. Like, it's looking at the numbers, but then looking at what the page is posting to get those numbers. So that makes me really happy that they did that. Because I think Apple is the best streamer by and large, consistency, output, choices, boldness, all the things I want from someone making stuff that isn't going to theaters, because they don't have to make $100 million on a thing because they've got that product and this product and all the things they do. And I think that's really beautiful when a company leverages that

Starting point is 00:10:43 instead of just being like we can be a monopoly. So much love to them and much love to that event. That's cool, man. I'm jealous in a positive way. I'm writing down, one of the things I forgot to write down

Starting point is 00:10:53 for our notes, I want to talk about the studio now that it's over. Oh, dude. Great show, guys. All right. Yes. Let's get into the breaking news

Starting point is 00:10:59 that everybody's going to click in this video for. Let's get into the thing that everyone wants to talk about. Moments before we hit record, it was revealed that Disney has changed release dates and this is something that we have talked about so much on this show about how it's

Starting point is 00:11:16 coming too soon it's feeling rushed and as much as we get crap for saying stuff like that we are saying that because we're not we're not trying to join the train of screw disney and screw marble that is the complete opposite where we wanted it to be delayed so they can make a better thing so we can they can have the time to do what they need to do to tell the best story possible. So do you have the exact release dates? They have moved from Doomsday was originally supposed to be out in May of 2026.

Starting point is 00:11:47 Not just May, but literally May 1, 2026. Guys, that is what today is the 21st, so it is one weeks to the end of May, so 52 minus 4, 48 weeks away. That is not going to happen. I did not want a movie to come out in 48 weeks that is currently filming. It is now

Starting point is 00:12:05 coming out December 7th, 2020. which is a much better release date. And then we were originally supposed to get Secret Wars on May 7, 27. Now it is coming out December 17th, 2027. A year? A year. Perfect. So they're still a year apart, but they're a year apart of 18 months from now.

Starting point is 00:12:27 That's amazing. Like, that is so much better. That's amazing. Before we go into it, did you see the Disney Blockbuster Consumer Products banner? No. They had an image of, they had a Doom image. They put in the banner. and this is like from Disney

Starting point is 00:12:40 is it like doom like it am I about to see the first doom this might be it here I'm gonna put the laptop down and you can lift it up this feels like a historic moment all right check it out

Starting point is 00:12:52 oh it's Alex Ross art okay that makes me happy but they're officially choosing the classic gimmick okay this gives me hope because Alex Ross is the foundation of photo realism for art and paint style for me

Starting point is 00:13:06 it's clearly what they're basing a lot of fantastic four off of this a lot of people are going to consider a reach but i accept you if they're giving us alex ross tone fantastic four and in they're giving us dr dooms first image by alex ross maybe we'll have a more connected fantastic for to dr doom than i feared that's a reach i accept it but this being their first image does give me some hope that's cool yeah there you go you want to elaborate a little bit more on why you think this is a good idea about the release date Okay, so I think the biggest problem with the movies that haven't resonated as much as the movies that have is the movies that have resonated from the entire MCU. We're talking phase one through five have been the ones that felt like they had a vision to me.

Starting point is 00:13:49 Like whether that's Iron Man, Guardians the Galaxy, Winter Soldier, those movies all came from people that had a plan. Yeah. And what's crazy is Winter Soldier was the Russo's first Marvel 4A. Like that's crazy. They had done community. And it's funny, because if they got like greenlit now, the internet would be like, oh, the guys that made community are doing an Avengers movie. Like, it's insane to look at what the culture was then as far as reacting to things. But the great denominator is James Gunn got to make a trilogy of Guardians films because no one was invested in that group of teams.

Starting point is 00:14:20 And then he made his own vision out of it. I think Winter Soldier was a very bold swing in the specificity, one as Iron Man was coming out of nowhere. It was a paramount release that Marvel was still licensing stuff. Like, they were writing that movie on the day. Like, it's a crazy thing. I think this allows the film to not be as made by studio because so many of the films that haven't worked, to me, Thor, the Dark World, my opinion, multiverse of madness, to me, the marvels, the ones that I consider the, the, the, were the ones that felt like they were already filmed before a director came on board. And to me, when they said the release date was May 1, 2026, and they're doing the chairs in April or whatever, like, they're just. now starting to film to scale. How much has to be done in post-production if they're going to be

Starting point is 00:15:04 wrapping within 10 months of it being final cut, which means how much is already done? That isn't directors getting to make something. That's a team that's already assembled a thing and they're just putting actors in place. To me, this is, hey, we started working on this. We realized the scope and scale of it. We now have to adjust and we're going to trust you guys to adjust accordingly. I think the strength of Thunderbolts was it felt like a director that had a vision and they trusted, Marvel trusted the film enough to not call it New Avengers. They trusted the movie to come out and then be like this. Now, the movie is now broken even.

Starting point is 00:15:39 It's not making gangbusters, but that faith means more to me than the movie doing hundreds of millions of dollars. That belief in your director, in your cast, in the writers. That's what this feels like to me is that same faith in, hey, we had this whole plan, but you're telling us you need time. Let's give you some time. Let's give it our visual effects artists that are underpaid and overworked more than nine months to give us a final cut like this to me is a strong release date still like summer is

Starting point is 00:16:03 great so is christmas so it's giving us that opportunity it's still releasing them a year apart and now brand new day opens before doomsday cool which is exciting and now there's only two movies in out of marvel for 2026 i think that's great news every bit of this is great i'd uh add on a tiny bit more this gives them a chance to evaluate as well depending on how reception for stuff goes because a lot of the time when they green light this stuff and then they're shooting shit i imagine that's probably one of the conundrums they've maybe run into like with a project like iron heart or some of their other ones that they delay and like oh shit but it's already done yeah yeah and because you know there's there's a there's a delayed effect that happens a lot

Starting point is 00:16:47 with these movies when like ah this is not working in the hollywood sphere right now but we've already shot it yeah this allows them time to be like okay thunderbolts did well let's see how Fantastic Four does. Is there anything there that we should magnify or work on? People love Pedro. Put it more like that's obvious. You're right. That's a really good point. They can be reactionary in a positive way. Yeah. Not reactionary late game panic mode. Let's re-ed, chop this up or do some stupid reshoots kind of. We've seen the complete opposite where it goes bad. This allows time for like true assessment. Actually, I want to reframe that. They're not going to be reactionary and they're going to be responsive. That's the word I'm meant to say. And that's what this

Starting point is 00:17:25 feels like. It feels like a response, not a panic. Yeah. And so, I mean, I definitely felt like the Doom decision, and I've been on record and people get mad at me, but I stand by it. The Doom decision felt like a business decision in the show business. It felt more business than show. And I have long felt that Downey has not made that choice. Even like Sherlock and the things that he does clearly because they make a lot of money. But that still feels like he wanted to do that. This, I'm sure he wants to be Doom. I've loved what he's posted about Doom. Like that shot of the MF Doom quoted comic and like the things he's presented, I've loved. I didn't love the Downey Jr. Tony's. Stark flourish with the chairs, but short of that, everything he's done has made it feel like I did Oppenheimer. I played this type of character. I love working in the MCU. What if I could do this? Let me stretch. I loved your, your conversation about Kirk Lazarus out of, out of Tropic Thunder. And like now I'm reframing it that way. Adding this, this doesn't feel like a business decision. This feels like let's let creators. This feels like a show decision. So I'm getting more and more excited for Doomsday by the day. Like every decision since the initial, me being like, I don't, I'm

Starting point is 00:18:26 worried at Comic-Con everything since then. I'm like, okay. Do you see, it's really easy to spin a story like this and say, oh man, that must mean Disney's and Shambles or something like that. And we might see some videos do that. I would advise people with caution that like I sincerely believe that is not the case. I think this is for the best. What do you guys think? Leave your thoughts in the comments below. We do have a couple of questions from patrons that are linked to this subject in a way. So I wanted to make sure to shout him out. William Daniels says,

Starting point is 00:19:01 do you think it's possible that Doomsday is going to be all about showing how strong and dangerous Dr. Doom is similar to how they treated Thanos in Infinity War? I think it'll be a largely Doom film. Like I'd say it's going to be like 70-30. I think Thanos I would say was like 65-35, maybe approaching 70-30. But we had content. text for Thanos, even abstractly. We had like a bit of a looming presence. We have not met Doom. So I think they have more work to do with Doomsday than they even did with Thanos.

Starting point is 00:19:32 You see, like there's the conversation that people often say, and I think it's because I think people usually say this because the Russo brother said this, that Thanos is the protagonist of Infinity War. And there is an extent to that in which I agree. But I don't feel like the movie is from Thanos's perspective. The perspective the movie adopts is he's definitely the villain of the story. So, you know, like, protagonist's perspective are two different things. Yeah. I feel like with this question and what we're considering is like, is there a possibility that this movie's actually from Doom's perspective? Oh. That's at least how I would like them to treat Doomsday. I feel that'd be very unique. Yes. I had not considered that. I hope so. I would

Starting point is 00:20:11 love a Robert Downey Jr. led film to be Avengers Doomsday and then to find a way to have me be as connected to the characters I need to be. Because you can connect to. a character in one movie. That's how most movies work. But can you do that in a shared universe that you're an Avengers film colon, Doomsday? If they make this a Doomsday film that has the Avengers in it, I am way more on board. Yeah, I think it would be cool if they did it from Doom's perspective. It's his day. Even if you how you use his day, even if you see how he sees the other Avengers and you're actually in his point of you. Imagine if you will, that opening scene of BVS when you see Bruce Wayne seeing how he sees Superman, a whole movie like of that

Starting point is 00:20:54 of how Doom sees the world. Yeah. And not not the same trickery of like he's the protagonist, but really he's the villain of the story. I think that right now in the comics, there's an event right now called One World Under Doom. I've talked to you about it a few times. It's their big summer event. It is so good at manipulating you with Doom has caused, you know, open borders. He's caused like universal health care. He's caused all of these schools to get better education. He's doing all this stuff. And all of the people are slowly going like, he was a bad guy. But look at all the good he's doing. And all the heroes are like, it's Dr. Doom. And so we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop, but he's demanding complete complacency.

Starting point is 00:21:32 Like, he's giving you this, but you're still under Doom's fist. And I would love to see something where it's so well written that you're watching a movie going like, but I see the net positives of his decisions, but it's like at what cost. And that could happen. if you've got the lead that way. There's so many great movies that have you follow an antagonist, and they're still the lead of the film. Like, I think Fight Club is that. Yeah. Like, it shows you all the power of like, you know, anti-consumerism. I agree with you. Capitalism can be bad. I agree with you. Doing all this can be bad. Oh, wait, but we're blowing stuff up. Oh, wait. I've started to agree with this, like, urban terrorist. If they make doom that, p. I would love it. Like, that's a movie.

Starting point is 00:22:10 I love it. Maybe now they have time. I love the commentary and the comic you're talking about. Sometimes tyranny becomes so overpowering that when someone does the night, the slightest nicest of things, the bar is so low that we over-glorify whatever that positive thing is. Yeah, it's like Stockholm syndrome, right? Like someone like you're trapped and they give you water and you're like, I needed water and now I love. Oh, no, but they trapped me. Yeah. All right. We're cool.

Starting point is 00:22:35 That strange day when you're shouting out something quite often and one day they randomly turn into a sponsor. Let's backtrack a little bit first. know koi gendro one of the core hosts here at real rejects our comic book expert our lore guy the guy who can take a throwaway character and turn into a giant conversation yeah that guy when he told me a few months ago that he was auditioning for the official dc studios showcase podcast i was genuinely excited for him then to see him actually land that spot wow he's the comic correspondent on the show right alongside host tyler coates and frankie smith who i met at multi-com by the way if you thought she was sweet on camera she's even sweeter in person she's a

Starting point is 00:23:19 fantastic human being coy with them it's perfect and honestly it means a lot to us here too because supporting this podcast i don't know if i've got to say the whole thing now the dc studios showcase podcast it genuinely feels like supporting part of real rejects so in case you missed the memo what is it the dc studios showcase podcast is your inside source for everything DC Studios. It's hosted by fans, made for fans, and gives you exclusive insights and interviews you won't find anywhere else. Every other Friday, Frankie, Tyler, and Coy break down DC's biggest news. Dissect the latest shows and films and highlight the must-read comics. Guests already include Lauren Lefronk from the Penguin, John Gunn from Creature Commandos,

Starting point is 00:24:09 Katie sack off from the Watchman animated movies, and trust me, there's a more coming. I mean, I mean, Superman's not even now. And James Gunn's Superman on the horizon, they're diving deep. That means interviews with the cast. And James Gun himself, talking about what that character means to him and where the DC universe is headed. It is a fantastic podcast. And if you are a DC fan, this is the podcast to be subscribed to. You can watch episodes on Max or Max's YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcast.

Starting point is 00:24:37 New episodes drop every other Friday. Do not miss it. Show some love. Support Koi. Support the podcast. It's DC Studio Showcase. Thank you again for sponsoring this video. And then Ty at our Patreon.

Starting point is 00:24:49 Thank you. Our super sexy rejects. He says, do you think Doom will use Loki or Franklin Richards now that Sue's Storm is confirmed to be pregnant as his power source in replace of Molecule Man? I do hope we get Molecule Man because that's a character I'd love to see. That's a brief description of Molecule Man. Molecule Man is like one of the most overpowered, omnipresent, omnipotent,

Starting point is 00:25:10 omniscient characters because he literally controls things at a molecular level. So they had him basically be a, like a battery in the Secret War story where it's like that infinite power because he can literally reframe things at a molecular level. But that also means he's so overpowered. They don't use them a lot in the comics because like, what do you do?

Starting point is 00:25:26 So he's also like fully mad. He's an interdimensional madness because he's kind of untethered to reality because of his ability. So I'd love to see someone like a Matthew Lillard or a Ben Foster. You know what I mean? A Lakeith Stanfield. Like someone that like has that manic energy that they can kind of just feel unhinged.

Starting point is 00:25:42 So I would hate to lose that and have someone like Loki who we've had this great trajectory on. The god of stories would allow for that battery element for that infinite power. Franklin Richards, by the way, if you guys don't know, he can create entire galaxies and universes and realities.

Starting point is 00:25:57 So it's an ability to satiate Galactus because it's like, here I made one for you, eat it. It's not sentient. But Franklin Richards also doesn't have that madness. He's a kid that's just trying to figure out what it's like to have this much power. I think the element of Molecule Man that makes Secret Orso

Starting point is 00:26:10 interesting is there's like a ticking clock to your power source so if you use loki he's good now and if you use franklin richards that's a kid i think molecule man would be better but if you don't introduce a ton of characters because you're already introducing doom i can see them doing that cool cool good answers thank you guys thank you super sexies for submitting those questions there for us we're going to move on to the next story now all right next one spider man brand new day um let me go again next one is spider man brand new day spider man four so the disney's blockbuster consumer products panel an event that i did not know was an event until we started filming today there was uh apparently some like banner or image there that featured so they're thinking this might be the villains of the

Starting point is 00:26:59 movie scorpion about time boomerang and tombstone street level also they've been Those are all street level. Really street level and really like henchmeny. That's like a very approachable crime saga, which is what we've been wanting. Scorpion is the one we have talked extensively about Michael Mando returning, really, really wanting that. Tombstone. It's great. Well, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man reintroduced him.

Starting point is 00:27:29 Yep. So he's popular again and also spectacular Spider-Man used him well. He's in the Spider-Man's like geist, but he's not so big people have associations with him, which is exciting. Yeah. And I think you get some free reign on interpret. As long as you eventually arc him into tombstone, you know, what tombstone looks like in all. But the origin or personality traits,

Starting point is 00:27:47 I think you get a little bit more free reign on what you can do. Because he's not as, yeah, exactly. He's not his household. Like, I don't know anyone that didn't think your friendly neighbor in Spider-Man did a great job reinventing him. But that's because people aren't like, but he's got to be blah, blah, blah. Boomering.

Starting point is 00:28:00 Am I reading this right? Is there, I mean, there's a boomerang in DC, obviously. Oh, yeah, there's a 70 Spider-Man. And he was really popular for like the 70s and 80s and Spider-Man. I don't. I can't say I mean, he's not popular now. Yeah, he's got, he's a pretty cheesy guy. And I love him because he's like, you know, he's one of like in the era of like the slider and the big wheel and hypno-hustler.

Starting point is 00:28:21 Like Spider-Man had a weird rogues in the 70s and 80s. Well, Jai Courtney is now dead in the DC movies. Bring him in. So you can definitely use a boomerang now without it being confusing at all. I also, you were just talking about my mom. Molecule Man a second ago in the last story. I've got, I've got maybe my favorite pick for Molecuman, it just hit me. Okay, sure. Jonathan Tucker. All right. I pitch him all the time. But that guy's manic energy. He also looks like he might snap at any moment. He's got like a cool build. Be cool to see

Starting point is 00:28:52 Molecuman instead of a tiny guy be like kind of physically intimidated. Jonathan Tucker, Boston. So, okay, with Tombstone. Yes. The strong albino hit, man. Boom. Filed down teeth, whispers. Who do you think would be a good live action casting? What kind of interpretation would you hope for if they are doing a tombstone. I would love to see. There's a kid. His name escapes me. He's growing up, so he's probably in his mid-20s now. He's the lead of

Starting point is 00:29:16 one of my favorite shows, Wu-Tang and American Saga. He has this incredible deep voice. He plays the Riza. And Wutang and American Saga, by the way, if you watch any show, I recommend that isn't comic-based. If you like any of my non-comic-based stuff, Wu-Tang and American Saga is breaking bad

Starting point is 00:29:32 levels of good. And if you like Marvel, how it assembles heroes, imagine a show, that assembles rappers that form the basis of what rap is today but in real time brings you like crime and drama

Starting point is 00:29:43 from the early 90s it's so good the lead of that did you have his name there Ashton Sanders Ashton Sanders approved got knighted by Denzel himself

Starting point is 00:29:51 put him in I think he was an Equalizer 3 because I got really excited when we watched that Ashton Sanders I think he'd be about the right age for like if you want to make Tombstone like the new

Starting point is 00:30:00 crime boss like they did your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man if you want to go that way I think if you're going older it's a shame they didn't use my baby boy Heimdel nearly enough because Idris Elba man if you've seen Luther

Starting point is 00:30:12 he'd be a great crime boss like a British guy Richie S crime boss but he's been utilized so I want to go a little younger but I'm trying to think of an older like wise street do you have anybody for

Starting point is 00:30:26 for Tombstone uh my in pick is really odd I was thinking Forrest Whitaker for some reason I'm into that, especially after, I mean, he's in the Disney house, and he did great work on Andor. He did do great work. He's got that very intense, like, manic whisper. And he showed up in havoc as crime boss guy.

Starting point is 00:30:46 That was fun. It was fun watching him, and I believed him in it. And I feel like he's an actor who kind of gets underutilized. And he was in Black Panther, but I don't think he is anymore. Am I right about that? I don't remember what happens to his character. Actors in Black Panther, I want to use more Sterling Kim Brown. That man only got five minutes of screen time.

Starting point is 00:31:05 and he's one of our best working actors. Sterling K. Brown for anyone, but he'd be a great tombstone. He's very intimidating once to me. He looks good in a suit. It would be cool. Well, they are, I mean, Coleman Domingo would be cool.

Starting point is 00:31:15 They are casting him for... That's incredible. Yeah, Coleman Domingo would be a bitch and pick. Yeah, what about boomerang? They're saying, Australia. He's Australian, too. He's a boomer. It's the most cliche.

Starting point is 00:31:26 I think you just get Jack Horton, but play like a different... Like a different extreme. Still Australian, but not the same thing. I'm going to go because he's one of my favorite Australians and Disney loves him. He's a little old, but that could be funny. Ben Mendelsohn. Oh, that would be fun.

Starting point is 00:31:42 I want Ben Mendelsohn as an aged boomerang, but he's still like, quippy and witty, but he's like, I don't even need to move. He is in the universe already, though. Love me some Ben Mendelsohn. He slept on. I feel like this is a pretty cool story. That's dope, man. If that's true, that gives us the street level hope we've had. And it dawned

Starting point is 00:31:58 on me that two of these villains are main villains. I mean, two people's not really a villain. in your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, but they're two main characters in your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. So maybe it's not coincidence. Maybe they saw the response to that.

Starting point is 00:32:12 And they're like, oh, look, a street-level thing went well. A street-level thing that went incredibly well that was dealing with multiverse implications. Yeah, which is what they've been pitching. Can you imagine if that show is somehow like a companion to the movie? Like, it's not. I almost guarantee it.

Starting point is 00:32:24 But it'd be so cool if by the time we watch Spider-Man 4, we're like, wait a second, all the things we wanted, all the Spider-verse stuff to connect the MCU, this does. Like, that'd be dope. if we had any sort of parallel. And I do think Spider-Verse 3 is going to bring it all together. I certainly hope so.

Starting point is 00:32:40 But yeah, well, Billings, you guys wanted this Spider-Man movie. Leave your thoughts down below. And you're casting. On our community post, I put out a question. Okay. Sorry. On our community post, I do have a Marvel-related question that I thought might be an interesting thing to talk about

Starting point is 00:32:54 considering what we're talking about right now. It's kind of a long question. So I'm just going to read it once. Quentin Anthony Anderson says, would love for you all the touch on the increasing apparent reality that after years of Marvel touting how interconnected its movies and shows would be, Marvel seems to be moving right back to the old model where the two largely don't have anything to do with each other. While I'm sure cinnophiles will say, great, quality over canon, it also was a complete 180 in terms of the value

Starting point is 00:33:22 of proposition of the shows to viewers. You have to watch Loki. You want to understand King Dynasty, as well as the deal, I'm sure many of the actors who have signed on thought they were getting. I'm sure plenty only said yes to doing a Disney Plus show because they were promised or at least implied to eventually get to the big screen in a big profitable Avengers team up. Except they literally came out and said you will see less connection. These movies have been from the older era of thinking. I think it's a very good point. It is interesting that we are kind of getting agents have shielded again where it was like,

Starting point is 00:33:50 look, Sam Jackson. Oh, shit's fine. We need something to avenge, but Clark Gregg's back. How? But like so, yeah, it does feel like that. Also, Jesus, Tombstone, bring Keith David from the spectacular Spider-Man. He'd be amazing as like a statesman tombstone or Dennis Hayesbert. What a voice.

Starting point is 00:34:08 Those are two other tombstones. I'm still stuck in casting. I think TV-wise, slowing down is a net positive. I think they should do more special presentations that could connect to the movies. I think if they want something that anchors Disney Plus as a must-subscribe thing, they should focus more Whirlf by Knight-esque. They should have maybe origins of characters. and things that are connected to the movies,

Starting point is 00:34:30 be oneers. Because I do think there is a bit of a homework element for not us. Like we are, it's so hard, especially even people viewing, I'm sure, because if you're watching a video about Marvel and DC and comics, there's a certain awareness just inherent to it.

Starting point is 00:34:47 There are way more people outside of our bubbles that would see watching six weeks of TV as homework in a way that we just can't. I don't see it that way, but I know that if I talk to someone, and they're like, wait, wait, if there's been two seasons of the show, that feels intimidating when it's not your job or your vocation. So I think a one-off, like a one-shot, like in the comics, something like a special presentation is more realistic.

Starting point is 00:35:09 I do think it's also a bit smart of Marvel to, you know, if you're building the shared universe that is 36 films deep, I don't think it's realistic to then expect people to watch 50 hours of TV. And if you're going to do something that feels like it's approachable in post-secretor Wars or even leading up to Secret Wars, I don't think people are even going to want six hours of Moody Night to understand who he is. So I think this is a smart direction

Starting point is 00:35:34 as someone who couldn't get through agents of shield. I'm so sorry. It was nice for me to not have that be a prerequisite. Like, I don't enjoy the network TV feel of that show. Like, I'm not a network TV guy. Like there's a certain acting style, a certain lighting, a certain energy to that show that just isn't my cup of tea.

Starting point is 00:35:54 I imagine there are people that love Marvel that don't like the Netflix Daredevil because they don't like that level of darkness or maybe it's not their style like possibly. I don't know any of them, but it's possible. So what if you don't like that and then you feel like you're missing something in Spider-Man? So I see the merit in it as a comic fan. I love the interconnectivity. But as someone that enjoys this universe existing, I don't want it to break under the weight of itself. And I do think we've gotten to the point where it's a lot more weight and expectation than it is joy for the casual fan. That's true. That's true. I got nothing to have to that.

Starting point is 00:36:28 All right. I said a lot. I had a lot of thoughts, Greg. That was great. That was great. Thank you. I'm glad you're going to answer that question. Justice for Agents of Shield.

Starting point is 00:36:36 I'm so sorry. I felt John's eyes peering into my skull when I said it, but it's how I feel. I think those are all very good points. I do think in some way, though, they have to be brought to the movies, at least some of them, for the real payoff. I'd be really saddened if they didn't, because. there are still like millions of people at least who expected that to happen and they do feel like they'd be rewarded with that when charlie cox showed up for two minutes and spider man no way

Starting point is 00:37:07 home that was awesome you know and yes he is like the top at the top of the top when it comes to like marvel tv but for these other characters especially like a like a moon night or something that's the secret wars is for man oscar is you know i know that's that's kind of my point is like this they will get that. I just don't think they're going to build those blocks forward. But Thunderbolts, the TV show, seems like it was necessary viewing. Do you think it was? I still haven't seen it, but like I'm rewatching, I rewatched Black Widow, which by the way, this is kind of crazy. Dude, it's so much better than people think it is. It's in my top third, man.

Starting point is 00:37:42 It is much better than I remember. And I'm trying to recall, like, why did, like, I was seeing some of the stuff of why I didn't really like it when it came out. But I think as a random installment in the Marvel universe when you're not like comparing it to other shit it's fine it's fine like i think elaine is great um i liked david harbour a lot more this second time around and do i feel like i didn't really get to know scarlet johansson much better not really do they not really have an understand like they set it up like oh right well she's the human avenger but then she like survives the impossible shit and the craziest shit all the time when like when she does superhero landing before that one widow like takes herself out

Starting point is 00:38:23 like oh that's what I remember this movie starting to lose me which you like fall down in Lance I think the villains are a problem I just don't think it's nearly as bad as people marked it to be at the time I and maybe not a third my top 30 marks I haven't really done it in the last like five films but it's probably like upper middle and that's saying more than people

Starting point is 00:38:39 gave it credit for yeah and remember Black Widow being that first movie outside of like Thor of the Dark World in the Marvel Pantheon was like something's not right Marvel right now has something yeah but I've come around on it.

Starting point is 00:38:55 I actually, I enjoyed it. It's a fun movie. I think it's really fun. I love the whole opening. The opening is one of the best openings in Marvel. I was about to say the opening. The opening is so impactful and powerful. Yes.

Starting point is 00:39:05 I do think it kind of contrasts a little too harsh with how Lexi, David Harbor, because he seems like a ground, like a good grounded person. And then he's like a cartoon. That he's like a froggy cartoon years later. Like a Russian mayor. He's like, this is like so hardcore. What happened to you, David? Harbor in those 20 years. Did you shoot the opening later? Yeah, you know, because this does not

Starting point is 00:39:28 line up. I don't see the, everyone else seems like they link to that memory. But the one person playing themselves again, the only person that plays the older version of themselves. Yeah, it's more than just him pretending to be an American dad, because even when he's interacting with Winstone, Ray Winston. Yeah. Yeah. When he's there, right? That's the one. When he's interacting with him in the flashback, he doesn't like change into Lexi. Right. Right. So yeah. But the movies so, and it got me excited to actually watch Thunderbolt, so I'm going to rewatch Falcon and Winter Soldier. But you see that payoff, though, it's, it is, it is rewarding and like on a selfish point of view, but not all these characters need to get movies. I think when the MCU was

Starting point is 00:40:06 hitting all of them out of the park or most of them out of the park, it was something audiences were excited to endeavor on. I think the problem is we saw what the box office numbers of Thunderbolts and not everyone showing up anymore. So adding homework to people not. Like, I think just the weight, it's too many weights in the balloons. The balloons need to rise again. And, and I think That's why right now it's a good idea. I'm saying this for the longevity of the MCU. I want another 50 years. I don't know if that's realistic.

Starting point is 00:40:31 But I want this to keep going, and I do think eventually the way it's going to pull these things down. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Well, that's our thought. Those are our thoughts on it. Thank you for asking that question. We're going to totally take a different turn here right now.

Starting point is 00:40:47 I'm talking about something different. This is not Jaden. I'm curious to what you guys think of the show, the studio. and maybe some of you guys' story being in a similar space. The studio, if you guys don't know, is an Apple TV show written and directed by Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, the duo behind Superbad.

Starting point is 00:41:11 This is the end, neighbors, some great comedies. And Seth Rogen stars in it. He plays a head of studio named Matt, taking over Continental Studios, and a big part of the appeal. that you do with this character is he loves cinema and he feels like now he is contributing to being a destroyer of cinema this constant tug and pool of like what's a green line and and not and a lot of people Seth Rogen has said it's very much inspired by like the Larry

Starting point is 00:41:41 Sanders show so then you think of like other shows the Larry Sanders inspired like it's it's to me it's it's a blend of of curb your enthusiasm meets Birdman those are my two I was going curb and entourage. I can see some of the entourage is a lot more like hangout though. Oh, that's the curb element. Like curb is like a slice of life in a weird setting. And then the hang is when they're off set. Like that, that to me is the entourage element. Obviously, the Hollywood stuff. Well, I think this show has an unusual intensity. It does. Like they're, the way they manage to take things that might seem like, not all the time. Sometimes it's like they're dealing with a lot of money. But I love when they could take something that feels micro, but they make a

Starting point is 00:42:21 huge problem out of it one of the best this show is shot in an incredibly unique way there are no cuts so not every show not every episode is like a oneer there's one episode that's a oneer and it's called the oneer it's a great episode it's the second episode's amazing but what i mean by they never cut is that whenever you go to a scene there's no cuts so every single scene that's stitched together with like five uncut scenes usually and set rogan and evan gober directed at all so it's a tightly scripted show like this show needs a tight script it's not the judd apato set rogan era of improvised comedy you are watching filmmaking yeah it's crazy because it's not whenever it feels like a thing that is a reverence or masturbatory way of hollywood it still does

Starting point is 00:43:11 it in a way that feels nice and it also really shows the difficulties and the struggles and the hardships and the ugliness yet it also makes you appreciate cinema it is a full rounded show where i've i've never seen a comedy show that made me so tense and stressed out consistently and laugh a lot like it has that like curbinger enthusiasm thing of uh you know something's just going to go terribly wrong for this guy you know it's the most embarrassing shit's about to happen like every single episode but more than curb i i am literally like tense. And Seth Rogen has usually implemented that. I'm a huge Seth Rogen fan. He's usually implemented that into his work. He knows how to find the intensity, super bad, finds those thriller elements.

Starting point is 00:44:00 This is the end, finds those horror elements. He knows, that's why he's a great producer for things like the boys and preachers. I was going to say, like, his comic stuff is so intense and high octane and so palpably like, ah, and then the levity that comes out of that tension. And I love this character because this is a guy who can be very unlikable. Because he needs to be liked. That's what's so brilliant. And what a great eye line for anyone that loves movies. Like, I feel like people that love movies as passionately as we do, as passionately,

Starting point is 00:44:26 you probably do to watch this as passionately as people that watch the studio. It's so reasonable to be like, but I just want the movie stars to like me. Like, it's such a, I identify so much more with this character than I'm comfortable with. Like the day I got on TikTok, I felt like the day if he's like, I'm ending society. Like I hate that I have to be part of like certain elements of our job feels like it hurts art for me. and our job is so much defending us doing the things that isn't about defending art. Like, I feel like so many of our conversations are about the reactions to the internet or the reactions to the arts that we discuss in the internet.

Starting point is 00:44:59 And I think that's because we're so in tune with like, I don't want to mess it up. I want to be a part of the solution, not part of the problem. And that's such Seth Rogen's character. And I love that there's a character in mainstream art that is about someone being like, look, I just want people to like me. I want to be on the right side of history. I want to move things forward, but everything's at odds with each other. Like the Kool-Aid episode with casting Ice Cube.

Starting point is 00:45:20 Like, I have been in so many rooms like that. I have been, I know every one of these executives. Like every single person in the show is an executive I have melt and dealt with. All of these situations are so this town, and it's perfect. And it's cool that the show spans a good amount of time. Yeah. Like a year or something. Cinema con.

Starting point is 00:45:36 It spans a year, but each episode, and it's a serial show, but very episodic at the same time. You can watch them out of oil. it's better to watch them in order yeah it's almost like a connected anthology story of this one guy in his team you know uh because yeah it is they have like amazing guest stars and when the guest stars are there they're full-blown characters and it's not like cameo fodder in the way how some of them are like this is the end yeah they're fully playing an important part of the plot as themselves elevated and they show up to play yeah yeah franko doing the work soie cravitz some of her best Zoe Kravitz has two episodes and she is incredible.

Starting point is 00:46:16 Yeah. Incredible. And it's more than, I'm here to just take the piss out of myself. They do that. Sure. But not in a way that feels like they're winking at the camera. Like Ron Howard, when he shows up,

Starting point is 00:46:28 it's like a supporting role. Yeah. And I haven't seen Ron Howard act his ass off like that in a long time. The fact that the people playing themselves play it at the cost of themselves is so joyous to see like Ted Sarando's taking the piss out of. of himself was amazing and I didn't expect that from him. It makes me appreciate the people that are willing to take jabs like that. And that's what reminds me of entourage.

Starting point is 00:46:49 Like when Val Kilmer showed up as the Stone Sherpa in the first episode of Entourage, I was like, that was before Val Kilmer like, kiss, kiss, bang, really became his tone. And I was like, this is Iceman. Like, what are we doing? And so to have the show have cameos that are part of the story that are taking a bit of a jab at the town while loving it, it's so hard to balance sardonic humor and a love letter. And this show feels like it's a love letter to Hollywood while being very aware that we take ourselves way too seriously. Yeah. And I think that Seth Rogen really embodies the

Starting point is 00:47:19 cinephile of today, of the kind of guy who keeps wanting to go back to like old Hollywood in a way. We can't call him Marty anymore after they shut down the movie. That scene to me was the moment. I was like, I love this character. When he ruins Martin Scorsese's Passion Project final film, goes home and watches Goodfellas and then Sal calls him Marty's like now it's Mr. Scorsese now that summarizes the whole character to me and I love it. Yeah, I don't want to

Starting point is 00:47:48 spoil the show for anyone. I want to encourage people to watch this show. I want to thank Sal Saperstein. You'll see why. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Sal Saperstein. The way they construct everything is easily Seth Rogen's best role. I agree. He is not playing himself.

Starting point is 00:48:05 It's like he has everything you love about Seth Rogen. He has funny he's got the dry wit it's all there but it's not in the usual way you believe him as the suit you believe him as the guy who's running this studio and you also believe him as this human being who's in a position that's way over his head so you kind of you kind of do root for him even in his most like sometimes he's very unlike him oh yeah like the doctor episode I feel does on your watch with you yeah she loves it she does okay I want to show Olivia generally doesn't like Seth Rogen's work okay but I'm like I kind of want to show it her because I think this might be a

Starting point is 00:48:37 gateway in because like Anya loves Seth Rogen but there are types of humor that are similar to Seth Rogen she doesn't like so I was worried when the show started I'd be like but but I love it like I love it so much I was protective of it so I was so glad this was the right type of comedy for her

Starting point is 00:48:53 Catherine O'Hara who's also in The Last of Us right now she's amazing in the show Ike Barrenholz dude we didn't see him for a while and I'm so glad he's back like he was everywhere for a bit and then there was like three years I was like where's this guy and now he's I believe the first one they worked on together was neighbors.

Starting point is 00:49:09 Yeah, hilarious. Nick Stoller directed that. Nick Stoller's in this, and he's great. Nick Stoller director. Nick Stoller directed Neighbors? I thought it was Seth. I thought that was Rogan and Goldberg. John, check the tapes.

Starting point is 00:49:20 I'm 90% sure it's Nick Stoller. I'd put money out if I was a gambling man. Nick Stoller usually directs the rom-coms. Survey says Nick Stoller. Yes. He did? Yeah, dude. What Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg wrote it?

Starting point is 00:49:33 I had that wrong this whole time. Andrew J. Cohen and Brendan O'Brien. Oh my God. I really thought that they... That's why I was so excited to see a minute because I was like, oh, neighbor's reunion. That makes more sense now. But yeah, I think it's some of the best work of all of them.

Starting point is 00:49:45 Catherine Hahn. She's the one who I'm noticing a hit or miss with people I talk to. Interesting. Some people think she's too little too cartoony. She's big. I think she's definitely the biggest one of them all. She's making choices and committing to it.

Starting point is 00:49:58 But undoubtedly, like I like actually talking with my friends who are in the industry and work with studio heads and shit. So it's like fun to see. their take on it. And yeah, they have a hard time getting on board with Catherine.

Starting point is 00:50:10 I feel like, I've never met a Catherine on. Oh, that's the one that I definitely know. Yeah, there's someone I know that we text about her outfits because he identified.

Starting point is 00:50:19 It's really great. She dresses like a Gen Z PR person. I respect that. Well, there's a whole list of cameos just to kind of entice you guys to watch this show. All right.

Starting point is 00:50:28 You have Martin Scorsese, Ice Cube, Zoe Kravitz, Adam Scott. I'm not trying to ruin like some of the really solid of Anthony. Mackey. I'm telling you about when they're like actually characters in there.

Starting point is 00:50:40 Zach Ephron. Anthony Sard does have a pretty fun role there. And Sarah Pauley as well. It's a really unique show and it messes with genre. The music is, it is like such an anxiety induced music. That's the part that reminds me of Birdman the most. Oh, I see that. I also want to give credit to someone we haven't mentioned it all yet somehow. I think his third most iconic TV role after Hal and Walter White, Brian Cranston. Yeah. Good God is Brian Cranston amazing in this show. Yeah, it shows us why he can do comedy. He's a genius. It's so funny. Like, I don't know. The show, it's everything I wanted to have it be. I, uh, shameless name drop of the week. Uh, I went to the premiere and it was incredible. And like they, they really cared about

Starting point is 00:51:21 the whole thing feeling like an old Hollywood premiere. But the coolest conversation I had about it was with someone that's been in this town for 30 years. That's why I'm bringing this up is, I was talking to someone that was a child actor that is now still doing acting and does a lot of cons and does a lot of like podcasting and stuff and he was basically describing the evolution of this town and it was a really cool conversation about how the town kind of repeats itself and like it was the repetition that was interesting because this show is so topical but these are problems we've had forever and i think a lot of people talk about IP being the death of hollywood now but there's always been stuff like the western has risen and fallen musicals have risen and fallen and it was

Starting point is 00:51:55 rider strong i'll just name drop rider strong and i had this great conversation for like 40 minutes about the different eras of hollywood that he's seen and now he's doing these cons and how much he loves the cons because he gets connected to the people that have seen it from the outside and it reminds him why he does it and he said this show was something that reminds him why he does it because the eye line of someone that's such a cineophile but it's Seth and like connecting with Seth over loving filmmaking

Starting point is 00:52:15 he feels like the show translates that in a new way and I thought that was a really cool insight from someone that literally was like born into this and it was just it was really funny I also briefly got to talk to Seth Rogan about comics. I had to and I basically thanked him for greenlighting all the projects no one else would and he was like it's

Starting point is 00:52:31 actually funny because it's been the easy your stuff to get greenlit because they're the unknowns, but then I can put all my passion into it. And I really want the people like you that read it and loved it to feel seen, but also to make sure that people discover it. And we had this long talk about IP adaptation, the balance of Hollywood versus like the musts and the necessities and the core elements. But then I asked him like how he was able to get this edited so fast. Like how do you do a show that's so topical, film it like that, have all that buttoned up. That is so scripted. And he's like, it's the predictability of Hollywood. The problem is there's all these cycles.

Starting point is 00:53:02 the reason Hollywood falls apart is all the things I'm doing. We've been done with this show. And I was like, that's crazy that he's able to like map out 4D chess, have the show filmed and everything else. He's like, this is going to be a problem next year and have that ready. So like two very cool, insightful conversations. I really, this show is, I think, my favorite show on TV. I've heard you say this before and I can understand the concern that it might not have like

Starting point is 00:53:24 a broader appeal or it might be a little too niche. And I think that's where the magic comes into the characters. I think we all know what it's like to feel like we have imposter syndrome. I think we all know what it feels like when you want to do your best. You have different intentions and then you end up having to do something that might go against your intentions, you know? So they managed to find a way to take this. Usually the studio had, in a movie talk, they're the villain. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:49 And this really does show you like, oh, yeah, they could get fired at any moment. It's a hard job and the pressure surrounding it, nor is it a pity party for studio people. No. It's not at all. It's not victimizing them or being. like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. It's just a human portrayal, but that consistently aims to make you to entertain you. It is one of the most entertaining things I've seen. And it is a show that it was weekly television for me where I could not wait till Wednesday. I waited. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:54:19 that's the first show since Ted Lasso and Trinking. Like those are, and all Apple. Those are the shows where I'm like, it's that day of the week. And I haven't had that in a long time. Yeah. Now you can binge it. So please watch this show. It's kind of crazy what Apple can do. because I'm not really aware of how popular they are. I know they got like a couple of shows that are super popular. I did a review and it's pre-2020-4 Koi numbers. Like my page was dormant for like pandemic until like April of this year. I'd occasionally put up a review.

Starting point is 00:54:46 My review did those numbers. Like I just, I want to like be a piece of getting the word out about this. Yeah. Because I tried and I'm like just people don't know it and I want them to know it. Well, the Apple, it's interesting. I think some people might gawk at Apple because they're Apple. You know, oh, the tech company is now doing television shows so it can feel like insincere.

Starting point is 00:55:07 But we got to remember, Apple's thrived off of wanting to innovate and create. Their products were about being creative in a stiff world. Yeah. Like that's what the mission that Steve Jobs had was. I feel like this is that being applied to TV. And of course, they're a corporation. So I don't want to suck any D right now or some shit like that. I'm just saying that.

Starting point is 00:55:26 They did not send us iPhones. Yeah, they're not going to send a shit, right? So when they, but when they, but when I. see the stuff they're producing at such a high quality because they have all this money from all the other things they produce. Yeah, that's what I was saying earlier. All the tech industry money, they're able to like produce these very creative filmmaker driven shows and throw all this money at it to make it great. Like I saw the first episode of Murder Bot and it's so fun. It is such a fun show. I'm like, God damn, the money and creativity that they actually have at their disposal

Starting point is 00:56:01 it's kind of gnarly. Killers of the Flower Moon. They threw all that money at Martin Scorsese. I think if you're going to be a giant corporation that makes billions of dollars the least you can do

Starting point is 00:56:12 is throw hundreds of million dollars at art and I'm so glad someone is like I hope that's a precedent for some other company to go like perhaps also the arts. Like I feel like this is a great way to show like it is a mega corporation but look what we made.

Starting point is 00:56:24 Well I think they're in do you know they're just going to finite game and infinite game? Have you ever heard this? No, tell me. So finite game is like a really easy thing to pinpoint down basketball. You know, like whoever gets the most points by the end, they win the game. And then there's infinite game where there's really no winning.

Starting point is 00:56:42 Like if your channel, if we both do a review of the studio and your and your video gets more views than me, how does that really affect me? You know, it's an infinite game. We're in an infinite game situation. I think a lot of streamers are in finite mentality in an infinite game. So they're trying to be like, we got to be. We gotta beat Netflix. We gotta beat Disney Plus. We gotta beat this. And then when it's not going according to plan, they're kind of panicking and people are getting fired and all this crazy shit. I think Apple's playing the infinite game where they're like, we're focusing just solely on quality. We're focusing on our fans. And we want to just keep building up that reputation. Keep building that up because down the road, this level of quality and how we're attracting all these top level talents who keep wanting to work with us, they're playing infinite. And that is the smart way to do it. And having that mentality does help in general as a person with trying not to compare yourself to people and like realizing like, oh, it doesn't really matter if this person does more than me.

Starting point is 00:57:40 Because sometimes I might do better. We're in an infinite game. Yeah. I like that. And like our careers are an infinite game terrain. There's no one to really beat. And I think Apple is very much aware of that. And that's how they play the game.

Starting point is 00:57:50 I love that take. And I've talked about it for years, I think since Ted Lassa, they're my most consistent streamer. I really like that perspective because, yeah, they have the bandwidth to not be. actionary yeah they get to be responsive they get to be responsive because they have all this fucking I love the dream to be responsive billions and billions of dollars you want to take a swing in a Scorsesey film yeah we got it well it's it's a unique it's a unique streaming service in the weirdest way and in and what I mean by that is when I go to any streaming service I'm looking for the stuff I'm familiar with yeah the movies and shows I've seen in the past but when I go to

Starting point is 00:58:27 Apple it's mainly their shows it's all the original their original, like they have other stuff, but usually it's like, wow, they really promote and push forward their original stuff. And that's what I mean. They're in the infinite game. Yeah, I'm so excited to hopefully have any of you watch the studio after us ranting. Please, in the comments, this is what I'm going to be looking for. Anyone, discover the studio. Or shrinking. It gave me such joy. Two very different vibes.

Starting point is 00:58:53 I personally prefer shrinking more because I love the way it makes me feel. where a studio, when I watch too much of that back-to-back, I get stressed up. I really enjoy shrinking because of the way it makes me feel like we've achieved therapy being normalized. But I feel more seen with the studio in a way that I don't normally feel seen. I feel like a lot of art I can identify with elements of a character. The studio makes me feel like I'm not crazy. And that really helps me. Ironically, the shrinking show, that is about feeling insane.

Starting point is 00:59:23 The studio show makes me feel so seen. It's really like a warm blanket, which I don't know what that is. says about me but i love that show a warm blanket of anxiety well johnny ready to react to severance i am so ready g give me severance give me the shrinking give me silo give me anything and everything from the apple very anxiety driven severance i like that that's their theme we're trying to figure out like we're doing some new directions here real rejects i'll give you guys a little bit of tease about it and part of that new terrain is i'm starting to go like what i'm Can we build out instead of going, this is popular show, let's cover a popular show,

Starting point is 01:00:02 or we think this might be popular, let's cover it, right? Because, yes, a lot of work does go into this, and there's financials evolve, the whole shebang. But then, you know, you have a little bit of extra stuff set aside so you can experiment a little bit. Infinite game. It takes some risk, infinite game. No, seriously. That's what I agree. Some of the things I've told you about a year ago, we look like we're approaching implementing because we're in that mindset now.

Starting point is 01:00:25 keep a look out for my Jurassic Park video with a Tara. Oh. And the trilogy we're doing, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I mentioned... I'm very excited. When we film it, when we film it, we'll mention it.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Once it's in the can, I'm excited about it. Yeah, I was thinking about it. I'm like, okay, let's see we're doing like the studio, and it's only getting like 5 to 10,000 views. But what if we do actually start to help that? If we can affect people watching it, I'm so happy. Yeah. And then what if that starts to grow and then naturally,

Starting point is 01:00:53 both in the infinite game, we're our view our viewership for that would grow over time and as well as Apple I don't know there's a lot of a lot of different parameters we've had things where we thought that with stuff before but they've just capped off yeah those seven people did enjoy our video but hey whatever we can and put out some word about it I think that we just did here right like I I love this show for that like platforming art we want to spotlight and if we can grow that into full form reactions great too yeah well thank you guys for being here um i was a little bit in a weird headspace today and apologize for that but hopefully didn't show too much thanks coy for bringing the a game as per use thanks john for manning this ship

Starting point is 01:01:34 down my friend is er uh let's uh with a patreon question all right patrons um i've been really loving our patron community a lot lately always have but now more so than ever and let me see here i had. There saw one question here that I thought would be a fun thing that we could even clip out. Oh. Marco Tunstill. Once someone says this, I'm like, I want to read it. Hopefully not too deep. Here we go. But how do you guys think dealing with comments has changed you? Like, would you say it has caused any anxiety to worsen? Sometimes when I listen to you guys, it almost sounds like you got PTSD from dealing with commenters. When you're talking, you go and watch the comments are going to be a bunch of angry people or something like that.

Starting point is 01:02:20 um cool how do you feel comments has changed you let's let's backtrack a little bit oh when did you start doing stuff on the internet um i started full time i i think like in the way that i see comments now 2019 i started part time with before deadpool came out so i was doing youtube with winter soldier but i wasn't doing it on my own until 2019 and i didn't start my own page until a year ago april okay so those three tears. Like, I've accelerated from 10 years to five years to one year. But your exposure to comments about you began in 2019, 2018? I would say, uh, 2018, 2019. They were, I saw all. How old would you have been? Uh, 30. Okay. So, uh, I restarted this in 2013 was when we went gung ho. So it's been about 12 years of comments for me. So about 22 years old is when my exposure to comments

Starting point is 01:03:17 began and we're bringing that I think it's important to note that first because that's when the exposure begins but how would you answer the question? When was my soldier? 2012, 2014? I think it was 2014. I'm not sure. John, could you check for me? Release dates are not me. I just remember that was the movie I really started going gung-ho. So yeah, to bring, now to bring back the question now that we're there. It's April 4th, 2014. Yes. Cool. All right that. So about 2014 is when I was like reading screen junkies and those things. I noticed them feeling personal. when I started doing my own channel to scale. That's why there's two different times for me.

Starting point is 01:03:51 But exposure would have been 2014 as far as like people talking about me on someone's channel. Got it. Got it. Okay. So roughly about a decade. Yeah. So how do you think comments has changed you? Um,

Starting point is 01:04:02 I think I'm, I think I've separated people into two types of people. Um, people that are, uh, on the internet to intentionally but malicious and people that are using the internet. And I think I have, the same amount of faith in the average person, but I think I have absolutely no faith in

Starting point is 01:04:23 users. So like, I think the person that goes on YouTube and absorbs YouTube and is entertained by YouTube and watches and learns and grows is someone that uses it as a platform. I think that there's a reason the only two types of people you call users are internet people and drug addicts. Like, there are people that are users and those people I don't have much faith in because of comments. So like I think that there are people that are weaponizing their anonymity on YouTube and other place that have message boards. I think there are people that are seeking an outlet for their hurt because they're hurt and broken and that's a place where they can lash out. But I don't think of that as the average person and that took growing. So I've gone through

Starting point is 01:05:04 phases of I love the internet. It's immediately a community. It's a communication. It's an outlet. It's a way to like gather like minds. And then I had a phase of like enjoying that we're growing this thing together and the largely the comic book community is rallying towards us getting these movies and stuff because of the internet. And then the late stages of, you know, the golden age, it started getting so toxic that it wasn't fun. And then I had to separate, like, if I want to believe in mankind, I need to believe that mankind isn't all these people. So I had to separate into users and consumers. So it has made me more paranoid of users because they look the same. but it has made me more optimistic that when I look at the number of comments and it's like

Starting point is 01:05:50 a thousand comments and the video has 30,000 views, I just have to take a second to go like, hey, that's one out of 30 that even comments. And out of those are maybe 100 bad people, that is such a small number. So remember the 30,000, remember the million, remember those people and don't let these people be your bad day or your belief in society. I think it's really easy to fall into society's crumbling, everything's wrong, everything's bad because that stuff pops up. That stuff gets more likes. That stuff gets people gloving on. They don't make positivity bots. They make negative bots. They don't make news stories out of good news.

Starting point is 01:06:21 Often that's why some corporation bought John Krasinski's some good news because it makes news look bad. So I think you need to keep that in perspective when you look at comments because it definitely makes me doubt mankind when I'm not being steadfast. I felt like a lot of that talk was what you were saying, well, very invaluable was a lot about your observation about commenters. I didn't, there's something about, I feel like there's something missing though. I didn't fully grasp like, how are you a different person from it? Because I, I had to separate what I see society as. Got it. I mean, maybe I'm not being clear.

Starting point is 01:06:53 I think I'm a different person because if I read those comments and I see the negative, like, I would have less faith in mankind. And I think I did for a time, but I think I've gotten back to realizing those are either hurt people, not real people or the exception to the rule because the average person doesn't spend their time on writing comments. So I think it's given me a bit of a thicker skin because I have to

Starting point is 01:07:19 like separate but it also has had me at times doubt humanity and has brought me back into going look no no no look at the numbers look at the statistics look at the actual thing. So I think there is some PTSD because there has to be like a certain amount of aversion because like art isn't made for everyone

Starting point is 01:07:35 that's the point. Art needs to evict you know certain types of people. It also needs to elicit certain emotions. So if I don't disagree, if I don't agree with someone's comment, it isn't about the person. It's about maybe we see the art differently. So it's made me more, I have to not knee jerk react because there are so many variables. So I caution, I think it's how it's changed me most. When I meet someone in person, I don't assume we're going to have a problem. When I read comments, I assume we're going to have a problem. I would agree with that. Whenever I go into the comments, I'm immediately, I'll admit it, I'm afraid. I'll

Starting point is 01:08:09 almost every single time, even though we had that experience with the Fantastic Four trailer where I wasn't affected by the amount of negative comments dished our way, I still have the apprehension of it. You know, it's been kind of a topic. It's been up in my life the past 48 hours, even recently in the last meeting we just had, is how like, you know, I feel like I've been a part. I don't feel like I know. I have been a part of essentially two cults in my life before YouTube, right? and the reason I bring that up is because my mind especially back then has been susceptible to influence you know and when this channel started of course unpacking it later a lot of it was you know wanting to get recognition get love get validation get noticed and so when it's happening via through comments it's validating and when it's not it's devastating and there were both very powerful emotions at all times and then it's kind of a weird timeline we live in now

Starting point is 01:09:10 because it's not it's not normal to walk around with a box in our pocket that gets us all these messages at any moment in time it's not normal to be exposed to this amount of feedback about who you are your opinions and stuff and i've been through you know online drama i've been through that uh the ringer and that was that that that supersedes uh you know hate comments it's a completely different terrain when you're in the territory of other people's videos and feel like you're part of a reality show now like that kind of shit is uh that shit for sure is like it felt like PTSD and i think it did affect me and i i assume everywhere i go people do not like what i do uh i think people are lying to my face if i mean totally frank and when people a lot of times i feel especially

Starting point is 01:09:57 in if it's in the youtube space it's if it's in the industry space there's a lot of reaction channels that have started post real rejects. We are not, we were one of the early ones, but reaction channels have now branched off to like a billion different things, right? From music content to a bunch of different types of versions of movie reactions, so on and so forth. And there's a bunch of amazing reaction channels out there. And a lot of them did start after Real Rejects time.

Starting point is 01:10:19 But there was a very specific period where reaction channels were the target of YouTube. They were the cancer, quote unquote, the cancer of YouTube. And there's like two to three other YouTubers I can think of who were. lumped into their real rejects was often lumped into that cam but the the pro of that it made me go i don't want us to only be a channel that relies on a big expression i want the commentary so before we used lean on to like you know i come from late-night talk show background of admiration so we lean more into the comedy back then and we always really cared about the commentary you know so even when we get like shit on the superman trailer reaction going viral uh and hitting the trend

Starting point is 01:11:02 page. People like, oh, reaction channels, the laziest, someone will inevitably say that. The laziest channel goes trending. And I'm like, you mean like there's, there's two and a half minutes of the reaction? It's a 23 minute video. Yeah. It is 8% of the video. Like, it's 10% at most. And our commentary is from a perspective of emotional connection, film connection, comic connection. Like, it is the farthest thing from that low comment denominator. But the comment affects you. And that's what I think is really interesting about. I love this question because going into the comments is literally, it only is those two things. It's only going to elevate you or devastate you. It's only going to be like, oh my God, and why do I do this?

Starting point is 01:11:41 I am not apathetic to it. I'm not at all. And I still do it. Like, I don't know why I read those anymore. There's, like, I think I always want the connection. I always want to connect to people, but we aren't, we don't have the gray matter to connect with that many people. We're not supposed to. Like, there, there's only a volume of people we're supposed to ever know. And I love our job. I love that we connect to so many people. But it is overwhelming. And I think a lot of the devastation comes from being threadbare because we are so vulnerable to so much because the whole point is opening up. The whole goal is to like, let me share my joy with you. It would be, if we did like accounting YouTube, I wouldn't be like, they don't like my math.

Starting point is 01:12:16 But since it's our opinion, that's here. And so when someone's mad at this part of you, not your analytics, that's hard. So I get why so many people do angry YouTube because it's easy. I get why so many people say, I hate this thing because worst case, your comments. are people going, well, I like it, but you're still the guy going, well, cynicism means I'm smart. And cynicism is the furthest thing from intelligence. It's the easiest, dumbest thing. So I think the reason that we're so affected is because it's an earnest wanting people to feel joy. Here's the trajectory I notice with most YouTubers when they start out. You start up a

Starting point is 01:12:53 YouTube channel. You've heard the cautionary signs of, hey, don't read comments. You've even told that, but you're also getting the opposite of bites. You have to engage with comments. You have to create engagement with your community. So you should be replying to every single comment. At first, it's good. You're growing a community. And then you start getting some negative comments. Then you start overthinking it.

Starting point is 01:13:11 You lose sight of logic. You lose sight of real numbers if your video is getting like a 99% like ratio. But you saw a couple of negative comments. You're kind of in this mindset because you're not used to it that, oh my God, people hate me. And then before you know it, you start filming videos with this in the back of your mind that people don't like you. And then you're kind of changing the way you're behaving.

Starting point is 01:13:31 to acclimate to the people who, when you're assuming you're going to get a hate comment, and then you have to find a way to work around this before you know you're retaliating really harshly in comments. And people are like, oh, come on, you're supposed to be better than that. You should be used to, like, then you got a lot of, then you're getting people judging you for how you're handling hate comments. Yeah. And when you're just being a fucking human being.

Starting point is 01:13:53 Right. And this is not only my experience. This is most people, I notice, when they deal with it. And then when people change on YouTube, via through it. via through these experience, it's like, well, you know, you got to understand, you're getting like a bunch of arrows on your bag. And so sometimes it does harden you. It's caused me to be more disciplined. It's caused me to be more logical. I feel like it's led to a much better channel. And yeah, you know, but I'm older now. It's been like 12 years or something. So I respond to it

Starting point is 01:14:21 differently. But for sure, I would say 100%. Like this is a topic that I feel like this is an easy thing that people say a lot, but I really do feel like we can unpack this for hours. sure and I totally agree like defining part of my life 100% I mean it's a decade yeah and that's all reason I re quantified the winter soldier is it's it's it's a very clear 12 years for you it's about 11 years for me a little off and on but a strong six years for me that is a lifetime yeah of just having access to thousands and tens of thousands of people being mad at you that's not healthy so I do think it's not the way we're wired I don't think it's the way we're meant to be I don't think we're meant to be exposed to it but it's the juice is still worth the squeeze like I still love people more

Starting point is 01:14:58 than I hate the comments. So I think that's why there's two. That's why I had that long preamble. I had to separate. Otherwise, I shouldn't do this. But I've learned I have to separate. It's why I'm not on Twitter as much anymore. I think what people also, if there's one piece of advice, I would like to give people when it comes to comments is you have to be honest with yourself of why you are reading comments. Just be real with yourself. Some people will tell me I'm reading it because I feel like, you know, even though some negative ones, I feel like I could get good feedback. Absolutely. That could 100% be true. There's been a couple of negative comments that I could think. of that actually made me reflect and change the response to agatha led a different direction of

Starting point is 01:15:35 like oh the tide has changed now where people want more more sincerity which is great because that lines up with more what i want to do to be more sincere and so sometimes there is a a golden truth there but more often than not i'll see people who say that who think they're just loaded with hate when i'm like no you're not it's only a few comments it's only a few but you but you think this and so sometimes it's like if you want to if you want to dive in because you're kind of addicted to it just admit it yeah admit you're addicted to it i mean i'm i'm addicted to my youtube creator studio app i'm opening it all the fucking time and i'm not as honest with myself i often will blame the way it's built but the reality is is like i got to take responsibility

Starting point is 01:16:16 and i have i have my own addiction to it and i think people need to be honest with themselves too about what it's a it's an emotional process you know like i know some people are so thick skin that they can they're it's they're impenetrable but that's that is I think the minority of people who deal with comments majority it is a hard thing and it is a reality to deal with it's not easy when you're on the receiving end and we have to have sympathy for people and empathy for people yeah I totally agree great question because I think about it all the time and I think about how it's affecting me and I think about like whether it's worth it and this isn't something I want to deal with forever but I still think it's there's more good than bad yeah absolutely thanks a question great question

Starting point is 01:16:54 thanks for being here guys Thank you.

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