The Reel Rejects - Captain America: Brave New World Reactions Are NOT Great

Episode Date: February 16, 2025

ANOTHER MCU DIVIDE?! Captain America: Brave New World reviews and reactions are finally here, and the results are... mixed. While Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) takes up the shield alongside Harrison Ford as Thunderbolt Ross (aka Red Hulk), disappointing critic scores and what appears to be lukewarm audience reception have raised some serious concerns. Coy Jandreau & Greg Alba dive into what might be going wrong at Marvel Studios—Cough Cough Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man—and whether their marketing strategy is failing to connect with fans. With Daredevil: Born Again bringing back Charlie Cox, Jon Bernthal’s Punisher, and Wilson Fisk’s Kingpin, and Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four taking their first steps into the MCU’s future, how does Marvel course-correct and reclaim its former dominance? Plus, with Avengers: Secret Wars and Avengers: Doomsday on the horizon, Robert Downey Jr. is set to return... but not as Iron Man—he’s taking on the role of Doctor Doom! Save & Invest In Your Future Today, visit: https://www.acorns.com/rejects Get Your Fantastic Four & Spider-Club RR Shirts: https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Come see us at MULTICON!! https://shorturl.at/2B9l4 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thereelrejects Follow Us On Socials:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  Tik-Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thereelrejects?lang=en Twitter: https://x.com/thereelrejects Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ Follow Coy Jandreau:  Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@coyjandreau?l... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coyjandreau/?hl=en Twitter:  https://twitter.com/CoyJandreau YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwYH2szDTuU9ImFZ9gBRH8w Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Music Used In Manscaped Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB:  https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ready to roll, man. Ready to roll. I'm glad we talked beforehand. And now that we're on here, I just want to say, first off, as we kick us off, Thank you, John Humphrey, for setting all this up. As you guys can see, we are not at the preserve today because it's raining like crazy in L.A. just doesn't know how weather works. And so where we're normally shooting, the weather is, it's, it's all, the power is completely out. And then it turned into a giant snowball effect of a bunch of things.

And one of them was the main one that was like, well, we have to, I don't, I want to be, I want to prove we can be consistent about this. Yeah, dude. And for our tech side of the team, which. which is primarily John. John just came back here. Jared did a bunch of stuff so we can at least shoot today.

Yeah. And this is all him. So thank you, John, for doing that very much. Thank John in the comments. A lot of credit. We're not wearing headphones right now,

so we're going to have to do our best to be person. But anyway, we were talking, and I just want to ask like right away, Coy, I did not watch your review for Captain America, Brave New World.

The reviews are out. Yes. The reviews are not good. I would say, I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good. But I haven't seen it. I was gone yesterday and for the first big movie of the year since part of the tradeoffs here,

a real rejects is we have to, like, some people have to draw the short straws. And I was like, you know what, it's the first big movie of the year, I'll skip it. And Aaron's going to skip it. And so we're the ones skip it. And Andrew, too. So then we're going to react to it here. So we're not, we don't know anything about it. We haven't seen it.

generally low review scores don't affect my opinion yeah and I don't I don't really get affected by hearing other people's opinion I know like you're pretty adamant about not yeah I'm pretty singular like I just don't want to be uh I don't want my subconscious to dance around like was that my take or did I let it be because everybody's a sponge but I'm aware that I'm impressionable if it's someone I respect what was like the summation of your feelings on the movie like what you said in the out of the theater review with John and what else would you want to perhaps elaborate on in a way that is non-spoiler like, did you give it a rating? I, three to five. Like, I'm a five-star system. It's not bad. It's not, yeah, it's just, it's not great. It's not bad, but I also, that's how I feel about the movie.

I think the movie had a lot to say, but every time it had something that should have been said with conviction, it kind of whispered it. And I think that the best NCU movies are like, yeah, like, so it kind of shy it away. Yeah, the best NCU movies, I think have conviction. And I think if you look at Iron Man, it's a man that went from a warmonger to someone that you,

used his weaponry to save people and they literally named the villain war monger like the comics named him first but like the movies that i think have the right thing to say like the found family element guardians the galaxy the winter soldier being a man who dedicated his life to represent a symbol that betrayed him those are the things that make the best of the mc u strong and i feel like this movie had a lot of really important things to say but the things that made the things important are the climate that i think made it change i think the very nature of the environment of the world today is what should have been addressed. But I think the very nature of the world today made them go like, oh, maybe not.

So can I ask you, okay, so what did you think, what did you think Winter Soldier was saying? What did you think Civil War was saying? And what do you think this is saying? So I think Winter Soldier was saying that if you dedicate your life to something that you believe in, if that organization or system changes, recognizing that and then holding true to your ideals of what those beliefs actually are. What do you stand for? What is the flag to you? you are Captain America, but if America

is changing and the system is changing, what do you do in the face of that change? Right, yeah, because it's America you think landed the free home of the brave and they were doing all this like control without free, yeah. And that's why he doesn't agree with the Socovia Corps. Exactly. And that's his arc and he keeps

true to his word. And that's why I don't mind him retiring. I think that he served and he did what he believed was right. And then he earned that off duty time. So Civil War to me is the juxtaposition of Cap's ideals of freedom and being independent and that very thing from winter soldier versus Tony's belief that the greater good is all that matters. He wants to put up, you know, an armor around the

world, but that is at the cost of privacy. So independence versus privacy. Authoritarian concepts that I'm not saying Tony's authoritarian, but he's willing to dabble and look at them and Steve isn't. So civil war is that conflict of interest of what do we do with registration? What do we do with freedom and what those things mean ideally. So that's a very strong message. Yeah. It's privacy. It is something that we have given up.

Those movies are definitely rooted in the, in the themes, I would say. Yeah. They're not turning to the camera being like, here's what it's about. And that's a good written movie. A well-written movie doesn't have to be like. Yes. As much to people say, they don't want politics in those movies. Those two movies are incredibly political.

Captain America. Yeah. Political A. In the government and they might be lying to the people. Yeah. They're very political movies. This one is very aware that it is. standing on the shoulders of those films

while being the first Captain America Sam Wilson movie. The problem is it's a very charged visual and it's a very charged concept that never is charged in its execution. So visually you're watching an espionage thriller with a black man as Captain America

with a black man who was imprisoned wrongfully for 30 years and that takes the back seat and then the other things get brought up and then they take the back seat and then you've got the this is not a spoiler in the trailer. Then you've got the president who is um you know trying to control uh his history and trying to look back as thunderbolt ross like his his is his past misdeeds and we see him in the trailer turn to

the hulk there's so much beautiful allegory towards someone trying to be in control that's in a controlling position there's so much beautiful allegory for people that are diametrically opposed trying to unite the country what sam wilson believes and in this case what some of what we have trying to be careful, what we have the beliefs of Thunderbolt Ross that we know to be literally Ross imprisoned Sam. He was in the raft because of those accords.

We, with just context of prior films, know they disagree on something. The film could have been what it's like to unite the United States even when you don't disagree and seeing across the aisle. I don't think we've ever needed that movie more. And the movie does

grasp it. It's like a feather. It goes, ah, yes. But it, like, it could have been the movie. And what I think might have happened was that was the movie. And then the writing was on the wall of the way things were going to go and then reshoots. And I don't know if there was one reshoot or four. I've heard the movies, four different movies. I've heard they just did the standard.

Whatever happened, neutered the impact of what is the most topical thing. Could you tell it was reshot? There was a decent amount of ADR that was like. And then there was also scenes that were like lighting would be different. There were scenes where I was like, okay, okay, yes, we're here. Not as bad as like a Madam Webb, but certainly not. Marvel always builds in

their additional photography days. This did not feel like that. Okay. And that's a shame because Sam Wilson deserves better. And like Harrison Ford, dude, and like it's in the trailers. Adamantium is spoken by Harrison Ford.

And the little kid in me was like, what? Like, it was so cool to hear Harrison Ford be invested. Like he's having a great time. Like Harrison Ford is not phoning this in. He's incredible in the role. Anthony Mackey is Captain American in his own way.

There's a lot of interesting commentary in the Super Soldier Serum and all these things. But every time there was something interesting, they're like, let's go to an action scene that doesn't really feel as important. And that felt off. How was the action? I've heard. I've seen like a couple of responses.

The one response that, because there's certain, there's certain personalities out there who seem to generally like most things, right? I'm not going to say everything, but it seems like most things, they tend to lean positive. Some would say that's me. Someone would say that's you. I think in the TikTok world, like soups is one i've heard several opinions about this movie surprisingly and soups was one of them and soups came out matt ramos and he was very upfront about like i didn't like this movie

and one of the things he talked about was the action mean bad and i was like it was it was one of those moments from like wow you know i don't really take anyone's opinion on it and i'm i will be able i know me well enough to know that like in a few weeks when i'm vod i'll be able to wipe this late clean sure have your experience have my experience exactly you know and i know me well enough to know that when I've heard a lot of dogging, which I didn't think he was doing, but what I've heard enough of dogging on something, I tend to find the good. Yeah, yeah. If I didn't hear too much good, I didn't find the bad.

Like, it's the way of my mind. So I understand we're not wanting to hear too much. So my point is I just need distance from the opinions, uh, and a few weeks from now. But yeah, when it was, I did have that effect as an audience member who hasn't seen it. Because normally with these movies, I'm kind of with the crowd now, right? I'm with the like the reviewers, the social media influencers. I'm hearing the opinions. and but I'm also, I also have my own opinion because I just saw it.

Right. I didn't see it this time. So to see that, I did find the effect of, oh, there must actually be something wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Especially from from soups, you know. Yeah. So is the action like not great to you even?

I really liked the third act action, but I was already at that point aware that I didn't love the first two acts. I thought the story got better in the second act. Like the first act I was genuinely worried. And I'm, and I'm glad I could tell. this to people if they haven't seen it spoiler free it gets better but then the second act i found myself like ebbing and flowing in and out of being interested and the action was never what brought me back in so i'm not saying the action was bad but it was never enough to be like if i was out in a moment the action

never brought me back but then in the third act the story and action reach a point where i'm like oh great yeah but i mean that's a journey and his captain america anthony macky do you do you genuinely feel like he is the new captain america or does the movie did the movie not quite get there i genuinely feel like parts of the movie made it very clear and it felt like it, but other parts of the movie, phase one was the first Captain America movie and he had an entire movie to become Captain America. They literally had a montage. They had all the like stuff. And then I feel like he became Captain America when he came out of the ice. Like he was capped the whole movie, but coming out of the ice is what Captain America is to me. They throw him in his Captain America because of the

events of Falcon and Winter Soldier. That felt weird. And I had to kind of adjust. So I don't know if I was adjusting because of the format of the movie. I don't know if I was adjusting because, you know, Steve Rogers is capped to me in 15 years of lore. I don't know if I was adjusting because in the comics right now, but there was a moment of like, oh, right. I did at moments go like, yeah, Captain America, but it's also

a movie that says Captain America a lot. And I don't know if I don't notice that in other movies, but I kept being like, I got it. He's Captain America now. He's Captain American. Well, there's like scenes where there's like groups. Like, Captain America, Captain American. I was like, we get it.

And like, I don't know. I don't know if I just haven't seen the other ones recently enough. Like, maybe they do too. But I noticed it in this one where I was like, we can, yeah, he is. Like, it's like when someone says someone's name too much in a script. Hey, Greg Alba. You know, Greg Alba said, you know, Greg.

Like, it's like that. And I don't know again, if it was because of a crowd scene or what they were trying to do. But I was very aware of it. And then there were times where I was like, dude, he's Captain America. Like, I felt it instead of hearing it. I wanted to feel it more. And I felt like that movie was in there, but it was buried. And I think those are the two things I would want to change about Marvel is the, the specificity of vision, which is when I was talking to the beginning, like, you asked me what Winter Soldier and Civil War were to me. I knew exactly what it was. I even know what this movie could be, but I think Marvel needs to get back to that. Like, this is this movie's message. Now, saying that, I can already see the comments of like, we're beating over the head by messages already. Every movie should have a message. I'm not saying the messaging should be so contrived and beating over the head, but a movie should have a message. I think a lot of the best movies, believe it or not, I think it was like,

like Tycho Waititi when people liked him said this fascinating career that man's yeah he used to be like the shit and now it's like tycho watch it's so crazy what a career so wild how one movie can do you in like that and I'd be so scared to work for marvel if I was any like if if you could see where Tyco went from and two yeah it's kind of it's it's not really right it's nuts anyway um but I'm I obviously don't know I don't know the quote word by word but I remember him talking about it and it was like a light bulb moment for me as someone who likes to write which is a lot of times you just have to write what you're feeling like just on paper not I have a message and theme in mind let me go in and now write the

story right you write the story then on the after the first draft or second then then you're like okay I think I know what the movie's about I think Aaron Sorkin's even talked about yeah yeah it's like after you write your first draft you might have an idea what the movie's actually about then yeah and and I think then it becomes about refining that theme refining the film to fit that. So when I do hear about all these crazy reshoots, it does start to sound like shit.

It's a committee movie type of deal. Of course, I'm going to go in and be like, wow, there has to be a movie where it like turned out like great still, right? I mean, I'm sure Marvel's had many times. Yeah, we don't know because we just loved it. Marvel's had them. I mean, Iron Man wasn't even like finished script-wise.

Like the disaster of the thing that started the MCU was a lot of like, we are figuring the shit out. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, of course, like, if there's a world to make it work, it's just when you look at generalities, when you look at what's happened before, it's really easy to surmise like, oh, man, there might be some real problems with this movie. And I'm sorry to hear that.

So what does Captain America mean to you? And what did this movie miss then in terms of what Captain America is? So Captain America to me is the ideals of what freedom represents. Like when I think of America, I think of freedom. I think of the freedom to choose, the freedom. of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of, it's, those stripes and stars to me are freedom. Like, that's the American exceptionalism I kind of dabbled with talking about Top Gunn. Like, to me, it's like, we do what needs to be done.

But then there's also the United States element of freedom doesn't mean someone else gets hurt because of you. We're united. We need to make sure it is fixing societal things. Like, we are united together, but free. And that's a tricky juxtaposition, right? What is the greater good that doesn't cost you your freedom and does your freedom impede on others? And so to me, America is finding the balance of you being able to feel like you're as free as to do the things you want to do that don't harm others and America respecting that, but also making sure that it is a functioning government and country. So it's a constant balance act because we change constantly.

like a hundred years ago was 1924, 25. And like, that was a different country. You know what I mean? Like three people ago was the 1800s. And like, we had different issues then. We had different problems then. We had different. Like, so as America evolves, so too does Captain America.

As American ideals evolve, I think the country needs to be a living organism like the English languages. Like our language changes. Every year we get new words in the dictionary. Every so often. And that's why, like, I'm a big believer in us agreeing to things and as a country going, like, this is what I believe in. But I also don't agree that just because it's written down once and worked for a time, it's forever.

Like, I don't necessarily think that everything that got written with a feather should apply to today. It was written with a feather. So, like, Captain America to me is likewise an evolving character of what are today's problems? What do we need to address? how do we find the balance of freedom for self and freedom of government. And to me, Captain America is, I'm doing my job. Like, Captain America is the individual that makes sure that the American citizens are represented in a way that feels true to his American ideals. And he's empowering the little guy.

And he's making sure that people that can't fight are being fought for in a just way. Like, he's justice in balance, but not in the punisher way. Yeah. Do you feel like the ones? of Chris Evans truly capture that? I do. I think Chris Evans elevated the character from the comics. Like, I like Chris Evans'

take more than the average Captain America comic. I think it's more palatable. I think the cornyness when it is there is more digestible in the medium of film. Like, I think the cheese inherent to wearing a spangled suit works when it's a little cheeky versus like, that guy's red and white and blue

and fighting people. Like, it doesn't always translate in the page. It does at times, but it doesn't always. I think what Chris Evans did and what the Russo others did and what Joe Johnson did really found a way to balance all that. And to me, it's very indicative of the 2000s. Like, um, there's an ultimate comic run where, you know, Captain America's like edgier and he's like a little bit more violent. And there's this really iconic, uh, frame that's like a splash page and, and Captain America's pointing to the A in his head. He's like, do you think this stands for France? And it's literally about like not giving up. And like,

that's the most like post 9-11 thing, right? Like, we were like, and like, that's of that time. And so that's what I mean about evolving. Like, I think that's the Captain America we saw him as in the 2000s to some people. And I think Chris Evans really beautifully represents what he was in the 2010s. And I think there is absolutely an element of people feeling like they're not seen and people feeling like they're not represented that Sam Wilson embodies in so many ways, one, as a black man, but two, as a guy that isn't on super soldier serum that is fighting alongside gods. And he's like the everyday guy. Three, as a military man, that's just trying to do the right thing. Like, to me, Sam Wilson absolutely embodies 2020's ideals for what it is to be like,

I need to be represented to. And that, that to me is an important element of, I mean, we have representatives in this government. Like, that's a part of what it is to be an American. I heard a point of view from, I believe it was John Campi, actually, who said that he doesn't think, like, he likes Sam Wilson as Captain America, but he doesn't think Captain America should be leading the Avengers just because he got the title, the mantle passed down to him. Should be like earned he thinks? Yeah, I think so.

And I think he was saying like, uh, if any, if we're going to just go by like military and longevity and whatever it's like, maybe Rodey would stand a better chance, I guess, like, whatever the, I honestly, I don't want to act like I'm quoting him. I'm just what I paraphrasing the air. Paraphrasing what I remembered him saying. Yeah. But it did stand out to me. And I was curious to know, like does this, do you feel like Captain America needs to be the leader?

of the Avengers. And if so, do you think Sam Wilson should be the leader of the Avengers? And does this movie do anything to elevate that opinion? I think Captain America should absolutely be in consideration. I don't mind if there's an element of like, we should figure out who the leader is. I think that's an important dynamic to a team. So I think that should be part of the story. I don't think he should necessarily be like, my name's captain. And like, that would be, you know, a little like, all right, great, you got a title. But I do think there is a military leadership angle. Like, I believe in Cyclops as a leader because he's a tactical trained leader. He should be the leader not because of popularity or not because of seniority, but because he's

tactician. So in that way, Captain America over like Dr. Strange. Like, Dr. Strange is more powerful, but he's a bit of dick. So, like, he shouldn't be in control or in charge. So, you know, Dr. Strange has seniority length of tenure, but I wouldn't say that would be the thing. So I think it would be a subjective element of like what the leader needs to be doing in that moment. And that's why there's often multiple leaders.

There's like Cyclops and Storm. So, but I'm really curious, you ask me some great questions, but like, what do you see America as? What do I see America as? Yeah. Because that's such a hard question. I had to answer off the dome. I'm really curious if I made a fool myself. No, I mean, I guess that answer is always ever evolving, right?

You mean, America, the country, not Captain America. Yeah. I mean, I answered both. Okay. I'm just curious. I hadn't considered it. I've never thought about it since history class. It's been such a journey to me to even figure out, like, what I even feel

about Los Angeles as this micro that's the one microcosm right of like the part I inhabit when all these fires were happening I was like damn where's what is LA pride it's been a real question on my mind you know I've been getting really into my Filipino side and trying learning to have like more like Pinoy pride and just thinking about Los Angeles I'm like man I don't even have much pride about being from L.A. And you're actually and I'm actually from here what I do know that I love about LA is kind of what I love about America is it's I know for some reason this word is just such a trigger point for some reason I love the diversity I love that almost everyone I meet out here is some hodgepodge of a bunch of different races outside of you

my 100% Irish friend now no you're not 100% but most people I meet are like some type of like crazy mixture of things and then I love that when I hear like you're like a hundred percent Like, I don't, I'm no expert on how any other countries are run. I barely, I'm barely even intermediate to understand how other countries are run. Yeah. I love that across the street from me are neighbors who have been there for me in really, really, really, really, really tough times who have very different political views than me. And we can get along.

And I love, I wish America was represented more like that where, like, we talk a lot about the other side of people. on YouTube. Yeah. I absolutely would love to have conversations with, like, there was one guy I said who at the Mufasa screening, I often see on like a nerd rodic video or something like that. And he was in the group and I wasn't like tense. I was like, I want to engage. I want to talk. I want to hear other people. And and to me, when I think about America, it's really easy to get it inflated with what social media tells me what America is versus when I actually. actually travel because I noticed everyone's bubble, everyone's state and world or whatever

is affected by algorithmic point of views. In terms of like Captain America, this conversation is really interesting to me because I'm asking you these questions because I don't really have super strong opinions about Captain America. You asked me about Captain America, I would go, wow, like it is very like two dimensional. It's almost akin to like a two dimensional version of a Superman, right? Like, yeah, he wears a suit. I'm an American guy.

Thumbs up, I'm nice. And that's about it. Like, you do the right thing. And I would agree in how Winter Soldier in Civil War, especially, because I'm totally on Steve's side in Civil War, I would totally agree that I feel Chris Evans did so much for that character. Yeah. To represent a struggle in the face of adversity of not just complying, which is really strong. That's, that's one of the hardest things to do. when you're especially in a position like that just because he i love those movies because

like it's actually this conversation make as i i've often found winter soldier to be actually overrated and my opinion is very much like drastically yeah that's i'm just sorry i just throw that out casually for anyone else i say that i i don't like i don't i don't i'm not in love with that movie as much as any as as most people because i'm not really in love with captain america however reflecting on stuff has making my perspective kind of enhance and then looking back on the movie I'm going but that movie did it right because of they really set the obstacles up for this guy and I don't know what I want from a Sam Wilson, a Captain America. I don't know and I'm like breezing through reviews and it's like I've been saying like I want this to feel like Anthony Mackie's Captain America but I'm like

I don't even know what that means to me of yeah of what that like when I walk away I'm like yes he is Captain America. I don't know what it means, where you seem to have like a really deeper understanding of what you thematically, morally believe Captain America to actually exist as. And I think I spent a lot more time thinking about it than the average person. Yeah. And, uh, but I feel like you, just because you do doesn't mean it's not there in the, and the deep recesses of other people's minds, you know, that's got to be, I'm saying, it's not a negative or positive is I think that most people don't think about these characters and what they represent to them or how they would write them or what they'd do differently outside of like the

movies two hours and then maybe half an hour after like i i i've thought about what sam wilson would do in a movie i wrote i've thought about with if i met someone that like captain america how i would describe why i like him but what's ironic is i'm more of an iron man guy what got me to like captain america was chris evans's take but i'm still more of an iron man identifier so it's interesting that like a lot of people would assume and a lot of people have told me like oh Captain America. It's probably your favorite. Like, that's how you, you know, you come across. Like, everybody thinks to me as like, oh, shucks and happy and joy and like just saying the positive. But I identify way more with someone in a position of like, I got to make sure my people are good.

I will put a suit of armor around my world. And like, I'm much more sarcastic than earnest, especially when confronted. So it's interesting that like Sam Wilson to me, I don't have as many years. He's only been capped for 10 years. He's only been capped for 10 years. He's only been capped for 10 years. of for anyone, I have a vision of what I would do with that character more than I do. I know what I would do with Steve Rogers. You see, earlier in this talk, you said something that I had never concluded and I'm like, well, yeah, that just makes sense of when I asked you what Captain America means you start talking about America for a reason, and that's what we're talking about it, right?

Because America's constantly changing. It's evolving. You're right. It's 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 20 years ago. America's constantly changing. People change. People develop, people grow. whether it would be good or bad depending on the opinion right and and so like the idea of captain

america being a representative of that culture is cool to me because it's kind of like it could be like an american james bond in a way where he represents like because i don't feel like james bond really represents like the u k at the time but if they i mean in terms of like handing off the mantle or recasting i don't think it would be as big of a deal like a couple of decades from now or something because it's about Captain America representing what America is at that time. And I do think the divide of, I'm like, you know, you hear people constantly say like America's more divided than ever. It's more divided than ever. And I go, well, I'm no historian, but it feels like we had a war over this. I feel like it's always divided, isn't it? There's always

like, there's always a division. And the point is you don't go to jail for something for just having a different opinion. Yeah. And you don't, you don't, or at least you're not supposed to. You're not supposed to be like condemned or criticized or something. You're not supposed to. Like that's the rule, right? And I would like a Captain America that does represent unity.

So it's interesting talking with you as someone who hasn't seen the movie, as someone who watched the trailers and did not get anything of what you were talking about thematically what this movie's going for and to hear it and be like, I could actually see a version of how they did miss that mark. I have a very clear vision of like a few things. things I would change that would be small tweaks that would change everything because I know what I want. Did you see the reviews before they came out? I avoid because it was only two days that I think the embargo dropped like 36 hours. Do you know what it's at? Do you know what's not now,

John? The reviews for Captain America? Huh? Like Rotten Tomatoes, you know the score by chance? 54. Okay. I think it came out of like 48 and it was like 52. That's like Eternals level. Yeah, but Eternals was like the first. Yeah, I don't think Marvel is the Goliath it was. I think just as far as like immunity. I think there was like, oh, you gave Marvel a bad review and like it was unheard of and now it's not.

I think the reviews I was like, how does this make me feel? Do I feel nothing? What's wrong, John? What's wrong? You have a panic? Oh, there's water coming in? Oh, a lot of it. Oh, there's about two inches of water behind me, Greg.

um we're gonna just keep this is LA does not know how to want it is substantial no we're not going to just keep it going we're going to have a little pause in between here reject nation how are you feeling I've been thinking a lot about feelings lately maybe because it's new years and new year's resolutions they can be tough to stick to don't you know I can't count how many times I've set a goal only to let it fizzle out by february but what if some of those goals could be made automatic you just need a good transition to talk about it and you know what I'm excited to talk about it. It's today's sponsor, Acorns.

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Supporting them supports the channel. But more importantly, it supports your bank account. Because of the subject matter, there's one thing. thing I got to say. Payton inclined endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorn. Compensation provided a vesting involves risk. Acorns advisor LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures atacorns. Thank you again, Acorns for sponsoring this video. We're a rejignation. All right, 30 minutes ago is a weird podcast. Weird podcast. 30 minutes ago, I saw John get some wild eyes. And I was like, what is going on in the paranoia in

John's eyes? And then we looked down and the whole ground is flooded. Absolutely flooded. So you might see some people in Koi shot by him working out there, had to call people over neighbors, very helpful, helping out right now. They know that we just want like 15, 20 more minutes to wrap this up. Then we got people here who did not handle the drainage when they worked outside. And now there's consequences to that. So basically we were like, but we did a lot of work to make sure to get this podcast back up and running today.

The show must go on. It must go on. We're going to wrap. this up and we're going to be efficient. This isn't the meandering ones like the last two and maybe it's better. Who knows? We'll find out in the comments. We should call this episode how to fix Marvel, hell or high water. Oh my God. Wow. Wow. What a journey. Okay. So you talk to me about America. Yeah. And about your take on Captain America being more fluid because you're taking America is a little bit more fluid. I was surprised at the rigidity in my specificity of my beliefs

in America and Captain America and my specificity of Sam Wilson's goals. I didn't know I had that many opinions, and I did, and I think that's where we were. That's where we were. And I wanted to talk about the Captain America bad reviews. Okay. Because I'm in that position where I have not seen this movie yet. You have seen this movie. And it's interesting

to see someone who's usually pretty positive about Marvel, clearly have some negative qualms with it. Not saying you're a negative person about it, but I could see the qualms that you have been pretty honest about. And to me, when I think about the reviews, my mind immediately got a little disheartened because it's not what happens in these

situations that they look at box office because that seems to determine all levels of success for some reason that if it makes a lot of money great and they often focus on opening weekend and then sometimes that conversation gets a little bit sad because the legs on a movie do not sustain itself to show like the word of mouth on this isn't great I don't know if audiences are going to love this more than critics do I'm really curious to the audience score because historically they're really low Rotten Tomatoes. There still is a decent bump. Yes.

And right now I think 51% is Rotten Spanos. As of this moment, John looked it up on the break. And then we don't have an audience score yet. But I do know only our friend group and like local critics like that consensus isn't strong. But I think some of the flaws in the film aren't stuff that the average movie going might be vexed by. You know, this might be fun. But it has to create excitement. It has to create some level of.

enthusiasm and passion. That's what Marvel did so well in its heyday and it's prime time, right? And what Marvel does now confuses me because sometimes they get something great like your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. One of the best shows they've ever made and it came out with a wimper and it's, I think up there with X-Men 97 good. I don't put that lightly. No, you don't. And I would agree with you. I think it's a fantastic show. And yet Marvel seemed to not care about promoting it when more than making money, what they really need to do is prove quality and consistency. And if they have something that is a qualitative product, they should be putting that out there. Especially if you have something you're not sure about like cap four. They're coming out simultaneously. If you know

everyone's going to go to the movies, but you have something that's ace in the hole, go like, to like curb the bleeding. Exactly. Because then the conversation goes, see, this is the MCU now. This is Marvel now. When you just had an amazing product. on television that you'd seem to really just care about putting a few YouTube notifications out for. Four weeks of that show when it could have been 10. I know people are probably sick of hearing me say it, but that could have been a 10 week conversation and it could have overshadowed, even though theatrical is always going to be bigger, it could have overshadowed some of the negative sting. And then you're leading right into Daredevil. This could have been Daredevil while

it was airing and the Daredevil episodes are late in the run. They could have had Daredevil on two shows while they were nursing the wounds of Cap 4 if they didn't have faith in it. I have this question, though, about Marvel TV. Yes. It got me thinking about Falcon and Winter Soldier seeing this reception. And at the time when Falcon and Winter Soldier came out, I most certainly did not have this thought that I'm about to share with you. And now when I look back, I'm curious to know other people's thoughts on what I'm about to say.

And I'd be really curious to know yours. I feel like it was probably a massive disservice to Anthony Mackie as Captain America to have his next thing be a television show that is shared in conjunction with another character and then be about other stuff as well. I think that actually was in detriment to the impact of him being Captain America, the new Captain America, because he's already going to be going up against the fact that he's taking over the mantle from Steve Rogers.

He doesn't have superpowers. No one knows Sam Wilson anywhere near as much. I get the show was supposed to be like intended, so you get to know Sam Wilson more. But the second you put something on television, I think they put too much stock in there. It feels there's something in the subconscious. Yes, there's something in the subconscious of people's minds. It's on the small screen.

It's not as significant because it's on television. As much as Marvel wanted to be like, this shit is so significant. Yeah. Our new Marvel Disney Plus stuff. Which is so ironic because the golden age of TV was right before, like breaking bad and all that stuff. And I think they originally wanted to ride that wave. But then enough negativity came out. so the stigma kind of affected the executives.

Yes. Because I feel like even the executives aren't pushing the shows even when they are good, like Spider-Man. And it's so interesting when they're like, they doubled down on TV

and now they're like these big movie tent polls, but some of their TV is better than their movies, but they already have this like, oh, the TV didn't work. Yeah. It's really weird.

And I don't think it's a one-to-one comparison because, you know, you do this long enough where you start to hear like the certain columns I come in, right? And immediately I could hear people going, what about Wanda Vision?

Right. What about Daredevil? Well, in terms of WandaVion as a character from the movies who then got a television show. I actually think that did wonders for Scarlet Witch. I think that absolutely elevated people's love, mine too. Drastically, I didn't really care about Elizabeth Olson, Scarlet Witch, until that show.

And suddenly, she became one of my top MCU characters because of how effective she is. Now, whenever there's talk about her returning, I get really excited. Her and Dr. Strange excited the shit out of me that she's actually going to be in that. Falcon and Winter Soldier, I thought, was a good show, but certainly being sandwiched between that and Loki, which is the one you actually remember, those two, there's one out of, usually it's like, that's the only one you remember. Actually, in this case, there's two you really remember, and there's one, you kind of forget it came out.

Yeah. And so I think the quality, I do think that had some level of impact to show. It's kind of like subconsciously telling your audience, even though I know this wasn't their intention. Their intention was this is going to be a way to get us excited. I think that in this case. especially because Captain America is movie. I think it actually

might have played some affect and enthusiasm. Because the marketing in this movie was all about Red Hulk. It wasn't really about Captain America. I think the marketing is a huge problem. I think Marvel needs to look at their marketing. To a complete start over again level.

The marketing, I don't want to give anything away about the movie, but the marketing of the movie is very different than the movie in only bad ways. And the way this movie is marketed is a lot like Age of Ultron, where knowing the marketing, if you have any sense of movie format, theme structure, and especially if you have comic book knowledge, you sit down and go, oh, wait, am I just putting puzzle pieces together to get to the third act? The movie. And that's really detrimental if you want someone to spend 20 bucks of their money and they hear the movie's not that great. And then they watch the trailer. And then that's the experience. They're not going to leave like, I want more of that. They're not going to have repeat viewings, which is how you get these billion-dollar movies. They're not going to have people wanting more of that storyline if they feel like they've already been spoon-fed it. I, I think they had to do a red hulk heavy marketing campaign because the initial buzz wasn't strong enough they're like oh we panicked and they literally had toys for red hulk at mcdonalds a year and a half ago

with the original release date i'm gonna ask you for a minor spoiler are you barely in the movie red hulk i don't know if we should on a friday say how much he's in the movie i feel like he's barely every time i've seen the trailers i'm like i bet he's barely he's in the movie more than the trailers but not enough more okay i think it's fair is that the I think, I think, I don't know if that's a spoiler. They should not have put a single Red Hulk shot in the trailer. I feel like a fist or something. Or an eye going red.

Yeah, but not like a full on. The movie has a format that makes it feel, imagine if Memento was like, by the way, this feels like they're like alluding to things that the trailer then is like months ago. Yeah. And so there's no way to suspend disbelief to enjoy the experience. If you know Z, how do you enjoy tea?

like and and that isn't the complete it's not the whole thing i will safely say there is more red hulk and red hulk is awesome and that fight and everything you do get that hasn't been spoiled momentous yeah that said if you know red hulks in it at all you're undermining an experience and marvel used to do we're going to show you the first two acts and they used to keep the third act and sometimes they'd even do fake stuff like infinity wars hulk thing they can do that and they should do that because they're using so many characters i think the market in this movie is like at least $300 million of it being not as successful. I think a huge part of the legs are going to be how much the marketing messed up the movie.

So I think Marvel's two big things they need to focus on are focusing on theme, focusing on that, like what we talked about before the flooding. What they need to focus on are that directive and also their marketing needs to find a new way to make the experience hype without being the movie in short form. So when you say the marketing being bad, are you saying that? the movie was shot. Reshoots were probably done just for marketing. I know that's not what you're saying.

But is that part of the subtext at all? That wasn't what I was saying. But I do think there are things that are new that probably don't fit as well because they were trying to fix things due to marketing. I think they were reactionary. I think Marvel is less, they have less of a vision and they have more of a reason. and they have more of a reaction. I think they listen a bit too much to the overall consensus

and the problem is that consensus changes in two years. So if you make something for the 2027 audience in 2025, by the time we get to 2027, and I think fan impact is important. Look at what happened with Sonic. Look at like the good changes. But at the same time, if you're waiting for the crowd to be like, good job. You didn't

make art. You made like, you know. Another content piece. Yeah. So I think these movies like Iron Man was hiring a guy that couldn't get work. couldn't ensure Robert Doudi, Jr. A winter soldier was like, what if we make Captain America have to go against the grain? Like all of their biggest swings, the rewards were, oh, that's so surprising. If you're giving us just like, that's not surprising. You're just like feeding us what we already expect. So I think they're a little reactionary and they didn't used to be. That's been

a big problem with Marvel as of lay with all the stuff we've talked about in the past too. That was my first feeling with Russo brothers being hired. Well, you know, my downy problems. Like I, I honestly think, and this is all coming from a place of constructive criticism. I always want to be artists first and the art experience first. But at the end of the day, I know they have shareholders and I know they've got to be a certain level of like profit and all those things. But if you're only focusing on the business and not the show, your show's going to suffer. If you're only focusing on the fan and not the creators, your art is going to suffer. And I feel like the bold swings of hiring very inventive directors and bold writers, that goes away if you're so worried about your

bottom line. And I get it has to be a balance, but the balance feels very skewed right now. Yeah, and I think getting Harrison Ford, too, in your movie is a huge get. Oh, it's huge. Like Harrison, if you guys watch Shrinking or even the clips I've seen of that Western show he's on, like, this guy still cares to act. When he, when he's got a role, he can, he can really chew on. He's so good in this, he's, he's great. And he's good in the movie. Yeah, he's so good.

It makes me so happy because he's saying things that are like comic stuff. So, like, my little childhood heart is just like hearing Harrison Ford say the words that I've only read, you know, like it's so special to be like, oh, that's a thing I've read since I was a kid. and it's Harrison Ford putting his all into it. Okay. But it still doesn't feel like a story that is singular. So even with Harrison Ford, like Harrison Ford reading the phone book would be interesting.

Doesn't mean I want to watch it every day. You get to have Harrison Ford, like he'll make it better. Yeah. And there are moments I've got that. Yeah, I get what you mean. But when I look at the future of Marvel,

a lot of people do come out with what you just said, Daredevil. But they got Daredevil next. There's something weird in the Marvel movies and the Marvel television. Now it seems like Marvel really wants to separate themselves from Marvel TV to a vast extent. Like I said,

I feel like there's a stigma, which is so strange. Even with Loki season two, like that doesn't seem to have much of an effect playing into the bigger picture, even though TVA's reference in Deadpool and Wolverine, that's about as far as it's really gone with Loki. Yeah, right?

Unless I'm totally missing something drastic, that seems to be the biggest extent is, The TVA factored in, not even what appears to be the same kind of TVA. Yeah, they kind of broke their own canon. Yeah, a different kind of TVA factored into Deadpool and Wolverine. And Daredevil for all accounts could be a great show. But is that actually going to have an impact on the conversation changing around Marvel with their quality and consistency? Because, again, it's Marvel TV.

Marvel TV seems to be something that Marvel themselves are like, we don't really want to like, associate with the television. I don't know why they're like this right now. It's interesting because that was the same thing with like the Jeff Loebair of Netflix stuff. Like there was a separation of things. Like Agents of Shield was like a little bit, but not really. Like they dabble and it's always been this thing. And then I thought with Wanda Vision that was going to

be like, yeah, but then multiverse of madness was like, no. Once our show started tanking, they started really wanted it, like secret invasion and all this stuff. Like once they start really going downhill in terms of starting getting more misses than the auto where that was overshadowing the conversation because I think, because that's the

strange part is like i do think you need the good tv yeah i think that the part of marvel's reputation kind of being damaged goes to the television shows as well when we start thinking about the tv shows or people were checking in every single week with the new big marvel event episode of television and not loving it not for most of them i would say but for enough of them that affects the conversation of marvel so i do think it's important to elevate your marvel television talk as well that's why you should elevate your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man when it is going great because part of this thing that they're rebounding with with qualitative product, that is factoring in the unqualified reception from the TV shows. So elevate your TV shows instead of just going, all right,

Daredevil's good, but that doesn't really matter. Right. And I think the optics need to be consistency. Like we keep talking about consistency in general. Marvel needs to be seen as the brand it was, which is like hit after hit after hit. If you've got a hit like Spider-Man, you need that win right now. You need to put the flag up of like, we did a good. And then like, Dared of a following, it would have been like, oh, look at this one, two punch. Cap four didn't work out as much as we wanted it to. But we got these two wins. It's really odd that they've got these wins that they're not giving the love like you're talking about.

And then they're moving to the next thing. Like, it doesn't feel like there's any time to celebrate anything. And I know this year is nine properties because of things being held, because of the strikes, because like there are so many variables that's how their control. But at the same time, I don't feel like it's being handled in a way that is celebrating even when the wins happen. No. And that's my big problem with it. Fascinating.

Yeah. That's what it keeps coming down to for me. It doesn't feel like an event. Because it's a strange point where there was a time to me when reviews like this would come out for a Marvel movie. And it would be like, oh, oh, man. Now it's like, yeah. Guess so. That's what happens.

Do you feel like Daredeu's out in two and a half weeks? I'm starting to because I'm rewere. watching season three. Okay. And honestly, when I caught a snippet of the trailer again and I was in conversation with Aaron Alexander was like, yeah, dude, you totally said my train of thought that I just kind of kept to myself when I saw the Daredevil trailer. Because I'm excited for Daredevil. I can't wait. Daredevil is like my favorite watching season three again. First off, when I watched season three back then, I don't know what state of mine I was in or like who I was as a person because I was part of the camp that wasn't so positively receptive to a lot of it.

I love all three seasons. And I forgot about, yeah, and I'm pretty, no pun intended, I'm a pretty big defender of season two. Season two tends to get a lot of flack. And I'm like, I don't know I kind of love season two a lot. I don't think it's the wrong one. Season one's like perfect to me. Yeah.

But I hadn't seen Daredevil in so long. The new show is coming out. I'm like, I should at least pick up where we'll be last left off with Daredevil. Let me watch season three again. And I've been so in love with the experience. And I completely forgot why I even love. the Daredevil show. I just know I love the Daredevil show. I forgot why, though,

because it had been so long and there have been so many different television shows since then. Yeah. So here's my concern that erupted from Daredevil, for Daredevil going into Marvel shows. Because there's Marvel TV, and then there's Daredevil. Oh, yeah. Daredevil's like, Aaron said it best. It's like

a Showtime series. I wouldn't call it HBO. I call Season 1 HBO. Sure. I would call the later ones Showtime. More show Qualitative-ass cable television that is violent and mature. Yeah. With good writing, but, you know, it's superiors. Yeah. And it's like, I love the Dexter series.

And like that totally fits for Showtime. Totally fits for Showtime, right? I love Showtime. No slight against them. And I think Daredevil is completely, you could tell it the Red and everything. You totally say it'd be in a Showtime show. And when you watch that show, it is primarily characters just going through shit and talking to each other. And that's what imbues the action in the violence.

A lot of people talk about, and myself include, like, it needs to be rated R. It needs to be rated R. It needs to have violence. I think you can do a Daredevil show without it being hard R. I don't think you can continue this show. You can't do Daredele's Season 4. Yes. You can't just suddenly expendable three of this.

Right. You're going to get a lot of backlash because the violence is telling of the world. The violence is linked to the DNA of the, like, sometimes the violence, while consistently cool, it is also sometimes really disturbing and uncomfortable and it doesn't feel like

oh shit. It's an important part of the show. It's icky sometimes, you know? I remember in season two, like when Elektra kills that one person from the hand and Matt is just watch like he's just a kid, you know?

Like that's like a lot of people talk about like the head smash scene which is great, very telling a kingpin and like the bowling balls. There's like a lot of great violent moments but I'm talking about the general vibe of it is important. splatter on the white of the wall with the rabbit.

Like the bunny, that splatter is how I feel about the show. That's telling a story. It's also marking an experience. You're scarred like they're scarred. That violence is key. So you couldn't do a season four. I totally agree with you.

But I also agree that PG-13 Daredevil in some future duration could work if they start that way. I am also likewise worried about the show only because they're saying, I trust the directors implicitly. The showrunner saying like, I don't want just two characters standing around navel gazing. I'm like, I love that. I'm like, that is the show.

that's why you like that away from me that's like that's why you like foggy that's why like i'm like when i'm looking that's where like karen so i like vincent's and offrey his kingpin there's a lot of times his dialogue and just his experience talking it is like riveting dude watching this season knowing kingpin is going to how he's going to come out of what he's the situation is in and you're seeing all these little manipulation genius is incredible right it is incredible and also with uh with uh with uh with Vincent Donofrey as acting as well. Then it made me go, oh, yeah, Hawkeye. Right.

Oh, yeah. I liked Echo, but it is not this. It is not this. And I hope they found their way back. And so then the showrunner comments because I, that's, that's the part is like, I have a ridiculously high standard for this new dare level. And that is to be on par. That's all I'm saying, not exceed just be on par with the seasons that came

prior to it. And like I said, there's like a vibe to Marvel Disney Plus television. Yeah. There's a look. There's a look. There's a vibe. There's even a conversation tone. Yeah.

Even with the best of the Marvel TV stuff, you know, like Loki season two is one of my favorite Marvel things ever. But you're like, yeah, that fits in the Marvel Disney Plus thing they got going on. It's the darkest of, but it's still in that same toolbox. And the part that Aaron and I were talking about was the CGI mask that's floating. That was a screenshot screen grab for everyone for the Daredevil. trailer. Yeah. I was like, yeah, this wouldn't be in the original show. That's very much Disney Plus. It's very much a Disney Plus. But the news character feels way more Netflix showtime.

Yes, it does. So like, I'm wondering if they have found the way to do that. Like, I know a lot of people, and this is going to be sacrilege. And I'm sorry for the comments. Uh, I know the flash didn't work for everyone. But one thing I did think worked was the way Muscietti blended Snyder style and Burton style in a few of those moments that it felt like this mashup of artists. Yeah. And that is very hard to do directing wise to get a style right. I'm not saying the movie. movie work, but I think those elements worked. It felt like Burton at times, felt like Snyder at times. I'm hoping this Daredevil show is able to bridge the gap between the showtime flavor and

the Disney Plus flavor and then move forward in this amalgamation and that'll make everything feel better, but that's a tall order. It's a tall order and I'm not 100% compliment because it's the thing about Daredevil's like it could be a really, it could be one of Marvel television's best and it would still fall short I think Daredevil is the best adaptation of Marvel. That's why Penguin was so loved. Penguin's not a violent. It's not all about violence.

It's not all about action. It's there. Yeah. But it's not about that. Like the violence comes from within it. It's the character's turmoil within that. Like the violence is reflective of what the characters are going on underneath. Like, I mean, the season three has the oneer, which is also not just a cool oneer of action scenes.

It is also a rich dialogue tension scene where he's getting captured by Albanian. prisoners and having to talk his way out of this and not reveal he's blind while doing it. It is a really great season and I, I, I, I, I, but then it's like, well, let's say this is a success. Will Marvel hype this up and use and use this show to help change some of the conversation around it? And mature up their audience. Like, we are 18 years into this run. Like, I, I've literally used Daredevil as an example since Daredevil season one of like the punch lands twice, because you care about Kingpin, you care about Daredevil. It's one of the things I say most about when you have good writing.

The punch lands twice. You feel it all. But we also are at a point where 18 years into the MCU, we need the audience to grow up like Daredevil was. So I hope this show makes it so like, you know, a violent punch is emotionally impactful and physically violent, not gory for gory's sake. I think if you make something R-rated,

you can do it the wrong way and the right way. I'm hoping Daredevil shepherds it in the right way, but we're two weeks out. That's what I'm concerned about with the violence. Because they're like, oh, we've got scenes that are gorier. And I'm like, that's not what we're here. Sawtraps. Like, I don't need to watch that movie. I need to watch Daredevil.

Yeah, it's about the emotion that is associated with you watch the violence. Yes. And the conversations are key to the entire experience. I trust the actors. The journalism of Karen Page, the lawyerism of Foggy. The earnestness of Foggy. Yes. Opposite the cynicism of Matt that is earnest.

I couldn't imagine. I'm like, what the hell was this show that they were going to do before Karen and Foggie? that thing, whatever that was? Yeah, I was like, was this supposed to be some, like, giant action narrative? I think Mark Wade, like, they did a run that was very, like, cheeky and self-aware. And I think that would have tied into the more she-hulk take. But that would have not worked with the audience that loves Daredevil, the adaptation we've had so far. And the resolve that Matt is always dealing with when it comes to Catholic guilt and his relationship with God.

Yeah, that's violent this way and this way. That is a hard conversation to write into a show and make it real and believable. And, like, that's the part of Matt Murdoch. That's beautiful. He is struggling internally and physically a lot of the time. It really feels like that's why we love Charlie Cox because it really feels like this is a human being. That we've lived through stuff with. He doesn't have super strength and he just got he's got super skills, but he doesn't have super strength.

Yeah. And, you know, and She Hulk, I let it go when he's doing like weird ass flips and acropeze. We were like, all right, I guess he's just a superhuman. He just appeared from nowhere. Like, fine, I'll do it on She Hulk show. Yeah, sure. That is in her comic. That's a different tone.

Exactly. That's her narrative. Yeah. But in the Daredevil show, I'm like, that's what makes Daredevil so loved because we know this guy could really get hurt. But the good news is Daredevil into Thunderbolts and a Fantastic Four is theoretically, that could be a comeback. That's what I always hear. Consistency could be. I mean, that's a hell of a trifecta.

Are they, I'm saying, are they, do you think they'll actually utilize Daredevil, though, to give momentum to the top of the conversation? I think hopefully starting next week. they really start going like, okay, it's Daredevil. Like, I really hope that becomes the event of Marvel's new year. Because they didn't really push Captain America. They did not certainly push Spider-Man. I'm hoping they're waiting to like late quarter one and they go like, this is our time because they have nine properties this year.

I really hope there's like a cobweb shaking moment with Daredevil that goes, Daredevil, Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four. We're back. I want all those TikTokers that drive me insane yelling their catchphrases to have something. I want to feel that energy of Marvel again. I want that event moment. And I hope that starts with Daredevil. God, I hope so, too, man.

I want it for Marvel. I want it for comic fans. I want it for me. Do you know why I'm feeling so strongly about this? This is the total of the inverse structure. We can end it here. All right. This is the inverse force.

Let's talk a lot about why. And then we'll briefly talk about the main subject. Now I'll talk about the main subject a lot. And we'll talk about why. All this kept coming from yesterday. It was Olivia, my wife's birthday yesterday. And I took her to Disneyland. And we went on the Guardians of the Galaxy

a ride and it started there. I'm like, oh man, I love these guys. And then I'm like, when you walk out of a Disneyland ride, you go into the shops, and then you got all the guardies and the guys and toys and everything. I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of cool because like, this is so different from the comics to my understanding.

It's so different to the comics. And the James Gunn really made it his own. And look how special it is. Like, when you see them. And then I'm like looking at other Marvel shops. I'm walking around Avengers campus and I'm going, oh, yeah, I got Iron Man stuff, the Captain America stuff, the Spider-Man stuff. All these things. Then I Followed by this weird, icky feeling that started feeling like artificial because I love Disneyland and I love being able to go with my wife after being with her for almost 10 years and being like we still have a blast together when we're together for more than like 10 hours straight and we can still have like an amazing great time and I treasure my I treasure that trip a lot and then it's like isolated private moments I would have when I'm thinking about like I just passed this billboard that had Spider-Man on it here and some suddenly something feels like

This is the product that was bought, and then they stopped caring about the shaping at a certain point with the quality of its actual storytelling. And you start feeling it on the grounds of Disneyland. Yeah. And then I started. Then when I was in line, I saw the reviews for Captain America. I was like, oh, that's a bummer. Yeah. And then I saw someone dress as Sam Wilson.

And I was like, oh, man, no, I don't know if anyone. Oh, I didn't get excited. I was like, I don't know who's excited about this. version walking around around I don't see anyone trying to take a photo I'm sure plenty of people go and take plenty of photos with them I'm just saying like watching it and passing

was like oh it's a little bit of a yeah a bummer on the heart and yeah so it did start hitting me like in a personal feeling vibe because it was bringing me back to like that's why all this is here to begin with at Disneyland because of how much of an emotional impact Marvel has left like the journey

of Iron Man and believing in these possibilities and getting escaping into the multiple like the world of the Netflix shows versus the world of the movies were two different worlds where they were two very cool worlds that you can get lost in and we this is our third time we're doing this show and magic I had never felt the loss of Marvel magic more than to be at weirdly Disneyland wow where they're parading their products in front of me and felt like products and it just felt like what I just said it felt like a product and and now that's what it it suddenly felt like

this is what the world. It's the movies have caught up. But it's not all, but that's the problem. I'm part of the problem. I'm contributing to right now. Is that not every movie they make is like bad. I was about to count her.

I started hosting with like in, in a real way with Winter Soldier. I like the first thing I was doing heavy press on was the pre-production of Winter Soldier. When they announced Falcon, one of my first videos I ever did was at a network called bite size networks about the, oh my God, they're going to do Falcon.

And I looked at his comic wardrobe. And I predicted how they'd adjust. it. So this movie particularly Captain America 4 was so important to me because it's like the full arc from like Falcon, Sam Wilson, that's when I started hosting. I hosted the 23 in the road to end game at the L cap. I literally was there for three

days hosting the movies and then like landing with end game. My first red carpet was Infinity War. Like I came up through this and like a lot of the new generation of internet folk, they were children when these movies started. So they've come up with this as like it's a novelty. But like I was reading the comics when it was

something you hid. I was hosting when it was like oh that's crazy they're making a movie with falcon in it and now it's gotten to the point where it's so commodified that we take it for granted i'm still able in a movie that isn't what i wanted it to be which i've made clear that is still good but not great to find the magic in it my issue is that i don't feel like marvel is breathing the magic into it for people that don't have it already like built in like i've already got like a little store of the fairy dust that goes and then i go oh that's falcon if you don't have that i don't know what your feet is And I want that feeling that people got with Iron Man again when like no one knew who Iron Man was

I don't care who you are. You probably didn't know Iron Man in 08 and it was still magic. I think that we need to eventize the stuff. We need to decommodify it a bit. We need to find that magic without it feeling like a product for people beyond me because I'm going to love anything at least a little. But it's for everyone else that that little spark and you did not feel like it's a product. You know, weirdly I actually do feel that that's what I mean when something is like not being

receive well that card of the conversation does overtake my mind and my emotions and i forget like oh yeah i just i actually did love the last movie they did a lot dead pull them over here like wait a minute i love the shit and i just and i love spider man and i just and i love spider and so i get what it's like to be a part of that where something happens and and and i think like well marvel is the leader of all this and in a situation like this i go well where does marvel like often put most of their attention the thing that they really need to make a lot of money so So all I get that like, no wonder you prop up and push a lot of this Captain America stuff because you need this to make a lot of money. Yeah.

But right now, gears need to shift, I think. I think what you need to prop up and it wouldn't, I don't feel like it's going to cost insane amounts of money to really try to keep putting out there that this highly qualitative, well-loved thing, like a Spider-Man show. Yeah. Is something that would cost them exuberance amounts of money. Arguably your biggest hero. Just talk about it. Your biggest hero would like, and I. It shows good.

Such a great show. This is just an ad for Spider-Man. It is an ad for Spine. That's what I mean. I will taste it. Marvel with Spider-Man. Stop commodifying, but watch Spider-Man. But you see how our conversation seems to like not really, at least on my end, kind of put Spider-Man

in a separate camp when talking about Marvel, we're talking about the MCU. I'm even doing it. I'm, I'm compartmentalizing it. When I'm like, no, it's supposed to be a part of the same umbrella. It's supposed to be part of the same thing. And it's supposed to be part of the driving force of this conversation right now. But we keep going, you should do something kind of like a Spider-Man and then focus. focus on the quality of that and uplift that.

I'm like, they could literally do that right now. Like someone just has to press a few buttons on a keyboard or something and make it happen. Yeah. But they don't do it. I do think in terms of this magic you're talking about Thunderbolts.

Oh, dude, I have so much. I every trailer, I'm like, Cunderbolts and Fantastic Four, I think can do that. And I said it in the trailer reaction for Thunderbolts that with these two trailers, even though these characters come from prior things, there's something about the way they're pitching these trailers that feels like you could kind of just walk into this movie.

Yeah, I agree. That you don't need to have seen Falcon and Winter Soldier, Atman and the Wask, Black Widow, and all, you know, but it still feels like Marvel. It still feels like Marvel. It feels like it would help, like, sure, it's a nice, enhancer experience. Right. But it doesn't feel like I need to go and watch those and do a bunch of homework. It looks like the kind of movie that you could be in, like, the Midwest, and a dad just

watching on a Saturday night or go to the theaters, have some popcorn. That's what I mean. I feel like your average person can easily just go and have fun and enjoy this movie. Fantastic Four in a separate universe, smart-ass maneuver, because then you definitely, more than likely, maybe the other than a potentially

confusing post-credit scene, you can go in and enjoy the movie for what it is. You already had to go two hours by the time you're confused. Exactly, exactly. And then that might open up the door to why no more.

Same way how when you watch Iron Man, we're starting an Avengers initiative and half the crowd is excited. The other half is like, what are the Avengers? It used to be like, we get a little extra bonus, but it doesn't cost the normal person anything.

That's what they need to find. find again. And I think Thunderbolts is that. I totally agree. I think Fantastic Four is that that's a little why I'm worried about like what Doomsday and Secret Wars have to be because that's so niche and so specific. That's two years away. But I really hope this year they find that rhythm again where it feels like everything is important. Not like this is important because we said so, but not that. It's a weird feeling. Yeah. I mean, everything just keeps coming back. And stop giving away the third act. Everything keeps coming back down to money. And right now it's like, well, if you want to keep that money going, elevate your quality products.

Elevate the ones, even if you don't think it's going to be a juggernaut of a hit, let that conversation over. Like, Ted Lassow is a show that doesn't seem to do big numbers for a lot of people who cover it on YouTube, but everyone's heard of it because apparently it's one of the best shows all time and shrinking, same thing. A lot of, like, the best television shows, I'm aware, are some of the best television shows that I've never seen, like Severance. But everyone's

Apple TV I watch Three Apple TV shows But everyone keeps talking about these shows And I understand that maybe I don't know the actual financial number They make multiple seasons So they must do well

Well Apple's an interesting spot Where they get to have everything They make be marketing budget Because it's advertising for their products Yeah I know it's great for them So they literally like can write off everything I walk in an Apple sort of fix something And I'm seeing an ad for severance

It's just blasting in the background Yeah, it's so perfect, right? And they can have, like, iPhones in the TV show. They're like, well, they actually worked on me to watch Shrinking. There was like this funny ad that they have, no dialogue on shrinking. I'm like, I should watch this show. It's Harrison Ford and Jason Siegel. This looks like a fun cut to.

I'm affected my psychology of therapy. Our second episode because of shrinking. Yeah, yeah. So, but I think that's what Marvel needs to do with their, with their stuff that is getting good feedback. Yeah. I think they need to look less like a corporation for a little bit. Go back to their creativity. and I would love to have those conversations with people that love it as much as I do

without feeling like there's a little asterisk of like we should jump on this because they're down right now and I do feel like that's part of it John has the water looking thank God no I got a boogie coi's got to leave we survived a lot survived we survived we survived John got here at 1 p.m. it is now 6.11 p.m. It is now 6.11 p.m. And we got a 45 minute podcast Send or something. What if I've been an hour out or how long it is? We literally mid-flood filmed a podcast.

I'm proud of us. Mid-flood. We stopped. We got this train back on. I'm proud of us. Anyway, Captain America Forges out. What do you guys think? Does the negative reviews bother you?

Do you agree or disagree with the critics? Leave your thoughts down below. Please thank you, John, for handling this multi-con, baby. Keep a lookout. We are going to be there February 22nd. All the rejects will be having a panel, and then Koi is hosting a separate one. and I'm supposed to be hosting a separate one. It was announced in the, what newspaper was that?

Hullet Report. Variety and Hale Report. Both? Yeah. We fancy. We're in the Hollywoodport variety that's like, wow, you don't need to be A-list to get your name in there. No, not anymore. No, you didn't let anybody in the right name to get your name on there.

Makes me feel valid. Yeah, so we're going to be there, and I don't know what I'm doing yet. But it'll be good. I'll be good. I'll be there all day. I'll be there all day. I'll be there all day talking to people. It's going to be a good time.

It's going to be a good time. And every dollar goes to the wildfire relief, and it's literally 35 bucks, which is insane because cons are hundreds of, it's the least expensive way to meet a lot of awesome people that I've ever actually as a nerd scene. And I do regional cons. Like this is unheard of. So it's a dope thing for a dope reason for a dope price February 22nd. Have you seen the lands of the fires yet? No, I have been. Like Altadina. I haven't had the heart to. I've been to Altadena to help, like help, but I haven't been able to drive around. I haven't seen the grounds yet myself. I know I can't unsee it, so I'm trying to, like, live as long as I can't. I'm very aware of the trauma of the people that I've gone through because I've met people, and the visuals are going to make it real in a different way. It's already real, but I just haven't had the heart yet.

I would like to face the reality of it. Because, yeah, when I think of palisades, I do have the memory of how beautiful the palisade. And Altadina. Altadina is one of my favorite neighborhoods in L.A., and it was one of the places I was looking to move. so I've got a very specific, like, right now it's still mythically the same. Okay. Do you know what I mean? And once that goes away, even though I've met people and even though I've experienced

loss through them, as soon as I see it, it's gone. So I'm trying to, I know it's immature, but I'm like, keep it in my memory. Yeah, I know. We'll see it one day. Yeah. But I do want to go. I mean, I've been helping, uh, and my fiance has been doing such amazing working all today to helping so many people out.

And I know a lot of people in the South Palisades help out. But yeah. All right, guys. Thank you so much. We'll see you guys soon. Thank you.