The Reel Rejects - DAREDEVIL BORN AGAIN 1x02 Marvel Breakdown & Review

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Starting point is 00:01:11 Come seek the Royal Caribbean. Itineraries vary by sale date. Ships Registry Bahamas. Thank you to Liquid Ivy and Shopify for sponsoring this video. More on them in just good. Press like, press subscribe, press comments, let's watch the show. this is so good i have so much to say i'm so much to say i'm so glad we're reviewing these separately i've so much to say oh man oh god my body is ready i i feel like aaron and i have the same

Starting point is 00:01:53 stuff we want to say Aaron oh let's talk about the appropriation of the Punisher symbol oh man that was crazy that was crazy because you know that there's this this massive thing in our world where the Punisher symbol has been bastardized to be something that it's not and it's crazy that they're doing that in this show where the Punisher is a real guy and they've mentioned him they've established him so then we're going to actually see him come into this to essentially um not i guess disown them for like of a better word at this moment, but I think that's so cool that we're finally utilizing that thing that's been happening in our world world in a medium where it's not only relevant, but they can denounce

Starting point is 00:02:39 it in a very public way. Yes, exactly. This was great. This is a great follow-up. I love seeing the continuation of the stuff we've established in the last episode in addition to making the things you've seen in the original show even more enriching. The first thing that comes to my mind after the Punisher stuff, which I know you're going to go into more is the fact that Vanessa and Fisk are in therapy with Matt's girlfriend, which he knows

Starting point is 00:03:04 because Fiske knows everything. But her, not resistance, her resentment towards him comes from the fact that he left. And at the end of season three, that was her first time. She felt like empty and hollow because he kept her away for so long. But then that was the first time she was really enveloped into his world. She was the one that was in charge of the FBI agent getting killed. And now, since then, she has gone dissented into darkness fully into his world, and he abandoned her in that world. So the fact that they're in this place now is all because of Wilson Fisk.

Starting point is 00:03:40 And he's trying to get clean as she gets dirtier. But that's the cause of their divided front. So I'm like, oh, my God, that's so crazy. And then Matt happened to try to navigate the law and him being in a position where he's, to defend somebody that's not too different from himself and trying to seize the humanity in somebody who wants to do good and they're doing that in a way where the show is treating that with such care and going even further with the law elements of what we established in the first original series which is great everything's so compelling and we did all of this

Starting point is 00:04:16 character stuff without it having to be super action heavy and it's so weird watching this now because I remember like a few weeks ago the dumb comments from the showrunner like oh ours is not all talking it's all about the freaking action we're just high pace and stuff I'm like what are you talking about this is all gazing I'm like it's not navel gazing to have like committed conversation that's

Starting point is 00:04:36 the beauty of Punisher and Daredevil and Jessica Jones yeah that comment was dumb it was dumb but they they're killing it they're freaking killing it it it does that stuff just as well granted different writer different cinematographer but essentially they're doing it

Starting point is 00:04:52 to the same degree, which I love. I'm really invested in the way that they're enveloping the story or allowing the story to unfold. I'm really enjoying Fiss trying to tow that line while still having his ties and his methodology of being this kingpin. And yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited where it goes.

Starting point is 00:05:12 Match crossed the line. They showed an arm breaking. Oh, my God. Like, they said the tease, like, this is going to be darker and more violent than the original series. So far, I'm like, I don't think we ever saw that in the original series. We saw him like punch or slam a head with a door.

Starting point is 00:05:28 We didn't see the action when we heard the sound and we saw the head falling. But I think this type of show would show him actually with the head in the door crazy. I'm overwhelmed and I'm excited. Greg, what do you think? Um, I'm more sure your close thoughts first. Honestly. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Uh, actually. Yeah. Okay. Um, Punisher to me is a character that means a lot to me. and Punisher represents very specific things. He is, by his nature, not a hero. He does things for his own moral compass, and he does cause a net positive,

Starting point is 00:06:04 and he does save, but the only thing Punisher would hate more than the people that killed his family is dirty cops taking a symbol. So I have always been fascinated by people that are supposed to protect and serve, putting the symbol of a mass murder on their protect and serve mobiles and clothes and whatnot

Starting point is 00:06:25 and not understanding the hypocrisy of making someone who murders to solve problems that's not your job to murder tax recipient so yeah like it's a mess when those to protect and serve and the punisher symbol are directly opposed to each other the punisher is a commentary it's a conversation

Starting point is 00:06:48 it's a it's a it's an entity that is not not what cops are meant to be. They're not meant to punish. They are not judged during an executioner. And so I have always been very bothered by that symbol being appropriated incorrectly. And to use the platform of the show where Punisher will be to look at those people that misunderstand it to that level feels like reclaiming the words that have been stolen in a powerful way. words have power to me symbols have power to me

Starting point is 00:07:22 it's really important to me that the source of the word and the symbol be acknowledged for what it is before it's bastardized and so that since it's a comic thing it's like Snowflake with Chuck Pollanick

Starting point is 00:07:38 and the most ignorant people weaponizing the word snowflake not knowing a gay man used it in his exploration of sexuality to call out week to see the word woke be taken and abused by the very people that are the racist that don't understand

Starting point is 00:07:53 that is a black cultural word about staying aware and surviving in a hard to survive environment and that word being stolen. It is painful for me as someone who values language and who values symbolism, who thinks that all humanity has that I think separates us from the animals

Starting point is 00:08:10 isn't opposable thumbs. It's our ability to think beyond simplicity and have nuance. And to me, nuance is language. To me, storytelling is the evolution of the human experience and sharing emotion to have something

Starting point is 00:08:21 that is the human experience of sharing emotion that my favorite source of is comic books because I think of it as the Trojan horse of morals and ethics and what it is to

Starting point is 00:08:30 be good without the mess of religious problems. I love that this is the platform by which we can

Starting point is 00:08:41 call out the hypocrisy of the Punisher symbol and cops. It really made me happy. Ye. yeah it's very Rorschach it's just so like

Starting point is 00:08:51 it was like four frames I'm like oh god they're doing it yeah they're going but this is more mainstream this is like the big it like

Starting point is 00:08:59 Disney has a call out like this is crazy I'm still thinking I know I am not as I will be the guy who will say I am enjoying the show and I'm not just saying that

Starting point is 00:09:15 I am not as hype on the um at some stuff i do think what that showrunner said is very naive and here's where i disagree with you guys i think it shows i don't think the writing of the dialogue scenes are anywhere near on the level of the dialogue scenes of the first of the of the prior show i think it's very much like i think this is a visually driven show i think it's a very tight show and i think they're doing something different and it's like i like the build that it's ascending to you could feel there's a crazy crescendo it's building to the whole time and that's what i mean by like

Starting point is 00:09:48 it's a visual show i don't find the actual scene work dialogue stuff anywhere near on the same level as the prior shows i just plain and simple down did you feel that way in episode one too a little bit and i waited for episode two to be like okay yeah this is a consistent feeling that i'm having and i i feel like uh i kind of forgot about the showrunner's comments until you just brought it up and i was like that's what it is yep it kind of shows i'm like there's something that feels a little bit more uh i don't know it's doing something different i'm not i'm not saying i just want like season four of daredevil like i was i enjoyed the first episode more than i did this episode and you guys took a lot of like great things to say and i

Starting point is 00:10:36 feel like matt he straight up tried to murder bull's eye in the last in the first episode and we don't see much of what he did of how he's dealt with like how he just full on went through with that and now he's just murdered two people and I'm looking for- Allegedly

Starting point is 00:10:54 one of those guys is definitely dead and if he's not dead then that's some bullshit I don't they have to be dead because like then that opens up a case where he's on the hunt and maybe that could be a cool show but if he did just kill those people

Starting point is 00:11:15 I hope the show truly deals with the consequences of that the show's pulling some punch the show's not pulling punches the show's punching they're killing off foggy right away and then they're having Matt kill at the very first episode

Starting point is 00:11:29 he didn't think I don't think he thought Bullseye would live no no no he waited for foggy and once he knew foggy was dead he's like and you don't get to live anymore yeah well do I have to and so and but the show has done nothing to acknowledge

Starting point is 00:11:42 that and I think they should and maybe he's like hiding from it there are things I'm like pontificating a little bit I think and so perhaps they will acknowledge that I know you want to speak Aaron I can feel it but I just are and this is exactly why I wanted to go last because I was like once I start talking I'm going to get no no people want to come in a pushback yeah um so yeah the that then that's basically it it's like there's there's something that feels like they're they're really a lot a lot of what we're watching feels like it's very much about everything and in the calculation of uh the i just i don't know i just i think the die i said i would hold this to a higher standard than i would other mc u shows i'm happy to be watching it i think

Starting point is 00:12:29 everyone is doing an excellent job the choice to demystify before like the past couple weeks i've been calling olivia my wife i've been being like you're my venessa like we'll run the business together just like joke like I just talk like that to her so I love I love that they're like totally demystifying this and bringing it to this real way

Starting point is 00:12:51 and also to go I don't know what Wilson Fis is possibly planning here of like does he really he could just really be wanting to go to couples counseling he could be choosing to go to couples counseling specifically just to get to Matt Murdoch on some way like there's there's a lot that comes into the fold

Starting point is 00:13:05 that comes into the fold with all this stuff but and perhaps there's some style adjustments I'm having a hard time like kind of like clicking with um because at times it's super stylistic and all the in all the ways that I'm loving and then other times it feels so like casual the way they do it like with the white tiger stuff yeah yeah it's like it sometimes it feels like they have to shoot this in a rush but then but but I love the surrounding elements of it like where they try to where they utilize like music and sometimes it feels like they're throwing a lot on the technical side to try to

Starting point is 00:13:42 like ump it up when the previous shows just needed actors and the script and that did a lot to really drive at home and have mood and aura where this is like a little bit more bombastic with its camera work and sound design and music and there's like they're throwing a lot at you and yes i love the five seconds of the punisher tease and um to open up the conversation of having to do that the punisher moment to then liken it to season two when he has the rooftop argument about whether or not killing is okay and then he kills these cops and so much of what matt deals with is like do i kill or not kill and he didn't even seem like he tried not to kill them and that's what fucking bothers me to be totally honest with you like he just was

Starting point is 00:14:32 like i'm murdering these guys and that kind of bothers me more than the foggy thing this is what people must have felt during batman be superman because i was like that's like a new iteration i'm like this is the fourth season of this same matt murdock and i i don't feel like he showed any um restraint in what he just went and maybe who knows maybe they're not dead it just certainly seems like they are so yeah this one actually angered me a little bit at the very end um because of the way that was handled where he didn't even say he tried not to kill them. I know some people are like, what else is he going to do? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:15:08 That's what Daredevil struggles with. He struggles with shit. Maybe I should kill them, but I can't because I'm Matt. I don't disagree with anything you just said. And while still enjoying it. And that's what's interesting for me is I intentionally didn't rewatch season one through three before because I was like, I don't want to have a direct linear compared and contrast because I consider Daredevil. on Netflix, the best adaptation of Marvel comics. Like, if it's a Marvel comic and it was made into a thing,

Starting point is 00:15:37 my favorite of that is Daredevil on Netflix. Because the mess of MCU continuity, it's hard to even quantify. But if it's a Marvel comic, Daredevil. So I was like, it's not fair to anything to be like, what's your favorite thing ever? And it's like compared to that. So I kept them separate. I definitely did not like the second episode as much as the first

Starting point is 00:15:54 for a lot of the reasons you just said. But I also think I'm very consciously trying not to think about the show i'm trying to think of this as a soft reboot season one but also be like oh look at they did that up there that said if they're dead and they don't make that the entirety of the rest of the season like of him i'll be as upset as you are now yeah but because of where season uh because of episode one i'm like oh they're doing bold things and then the next episode they follow it up so i'm not mad yet if we open episode three and he's like bag it oh no no no no no because right now it has the option to be like what have i done

Starting point is 00:16:31 what have I become do I need to figure out like I do I go back to church like that is what I think is coming and then that'd be an interesting conversation with Punisher like how are you different from Punisher if you just did this and that's what I hope that symbolizes in addition of my experience so I'm hoping it's a conversation of like I left being Daredevil does Matt Murdoch kill like I want to see what Matt's discovery is because Matt has killed in the comic books and then had to look at himself and figure out what that meant yeah I would like that episode three four five six seven eight nine if that isn't the case I think I'm holding Greg's rage for next week. Like, it could come. I was just upset that he didn't even try not to. Like, well, we know Superman tried to not snap Zod's neck. At least Superman was like, fine, we got to talk. Yeah, you know. It's so fascinating because I, it's interesting because you didn't watch it because you didn't want it to affect your, your viewing.

Starting point is 00:17:26 And it's been a decade or almost. So, like, it's a nice distance. Right. And I did watch it and it is affecting my viewing, but I think in an opposite way that it's affecting Greg's viewing because I just watched three seasons of this man try not to kill people. And he's really on the line.

Starting point is 00:17:44 He's always constantly on the line of like, I'm going to kill this guy. But that line has never been tested or actively in the face of somebody he loves being in danger because the reason why he's coming to the edge in the first place is because the people in his lives are threatened. So once that has moved past the point of being threatened, that line has now in a higher state of being tested because it's immediately below him in his earshot. He hears more intimately the people he loved dying.

Starting point is 00:18:13 So him approaching that line, the only reason he didn't kill Fisk is because Vanessa was there to tell him to stop. If she wasn't there, Fisk would be dead right now. But he didn't have that opportunity within this scene. So yeah, it made sense that he throws Point Dexter over the edge. And he didn't care if he died or not. And I felt he had him there for a second, and then in his rage, in his upsetness, he threw him down. Also, Matt is a character that struggles with guilt and really struggles with rage. And I feel like in the face of this show where it seems like the one thing that's missing from this show so far is his relationship with Catholicism, right?

Starting point is 00:18:49 So I'm getting the impression that ever since the thing that happened, and this is me filling in the blanks. He doesn't go to church anymore. They clearly had that church scene to demonstrate that he rejects. With him not going to church anymore, he doesn't have that North Star. So I make sense to me in the face of that, he would take it a step further. A guy who already struggles with towing the line of going too far. I would love the challenge. I love the challenge, though.

Starting point is 00:19:14 Don't get me wrong. I love the challenge. Like, I've been through enough games and movies to know myself well enough to be like, I might be upset now. But as it plays out, I might be like, that was a brilliant choice down. And that's why I'm waiting till the reaction. Because that just happened. I have all the fear of episode three causing your reaction. But I'm currently in the glee of, like, right now I'm in like, I just saw the best trailer ever and I'm in peak possibility mode.

Starting point is 00:19:43 But if I sit and watch the movie in the first act, I'm like, oh, they didn't do the thing that my head cannon did. His right to promise you, I'm not reading any of the comments on this video. That's fair. Because everyone's going to love the show. You're going to be that piece of crap. Why aren't you a better shell? but no i mean i got i'm no i just gotta be honest like i'm not going to sit here i do i do think the writing is a little bit um the dialogue specifically the scene work dialogue is a little bit

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Starting point is 00:23:18 I only watched season three, but it reminded me of like, oh yeah, this is why this show is amazing. did catch up like you have the context recently you watched all of it you watched season three so we're all I just wanted to point out we're all in very different positions of yeah what we did in yeah yeah I might would have felt like you even without knowing episode three if I had just watched it

Starting point is 00:23:35 because that's why I didn't and like I want to watch the first three seasons leading up to the finale of this because I know by the time I get to episode like six I'm gonna be like a junkie for more dare to yeah and I do like but I'll say like I embrace and I love that they're doing something different like that is cool to me and bold that they would go

Starting point is 00:23:53 with such a distinct style the choices that they have committed to in terms of the way they handle the visuals surrounding Matt and the way this feels like a horror movie I think is great like I think it's a really great thing. You know what I'm just saying that? The Equalizer

Starting point is 00:24:09 trilogy as it descends into Denzel kind of being a boogeyman and like you're like I've been rooting for him and he's like I just killed a lot of guys like I get that from Matt where I'm like I'm with you because of your prior events but now I don't know how much i trust you yeah like i love the match i love the cut when wilson fist is in the office and it just cuts the time square i love the the absence of daredevil and how the city feels it

Starting point is 00:24:33 like there's there's a sense of despair over new york city and all they care about is daredevil not spider man hawkeye r man he's not here but no i don't really give a shit about all that emcee shit it's really i like that buildup to like where's daredevil where is daredevil and that i love that parallel for the court there's just with white tiger don't give me wrong there's a lot i really really love about it and i and there's something i love kind of about the casualness of discovering white tiger to then go like he is nowhere near as experience as matt and that's why he's freaking failing and that apartment i kind of like that he's just a dude and like where does just a dude put a white suit like he wouldn't have a layer he would just be like

Starting point is 00:25:17 I put it in a box out of my bed. Exactly, and how he was born from, how he was born from a missing piece. How he was born of the absence of Daredevil, I think is really cool. Like, there's a lot plot and a lot of choices that I really love what they're doing. But yeah, there's some execution stuff that I'm not a huge fan of right now. Yeah, it's interesting watching this show knowing that it's three, I guess like what, four episodes shorter than the original one because it's nine episodes.

Starting point is 00:25:46 Is that math? Yeah. Yeah, so the... 9, 4, 13, but this show, the original show, it was the perfect marriage of plot meets character development, and it seems like this one so far, though it does have character development

Starting point is 00:26:02 as a prominent part of the show, it's so far, it seems like it's more leaning on the plot than the character development is so far, it seems like that balance is not as congruent as it was with the original show. but I'm still willing to give it a chance for it and I do agree with you on the fact that it's not the second episode was not as good as the first episode but I'm still willing to give it that time to grow into what we know it to be I like the fact that we went three seasons with the original

Starting point is 00:26:32 show I guess technically four if you got defenders of Matt's journey not killing and I'm curious to know what happens if he did cross that line who is Matt on the other side of this does he re-discover his faith? Can he find forgiveness within himself for committing that act? Maybe the reason why he stopped being Daredevil for that year is more like a self-preservation thing to try to save his soul because he didn't kill Point Dexter. Maybe in his eyes that's God giving him a second chance to not cross that line. And now he has crossed that line.

Starting point is 00:27:05 And what does it mean in the face of that? The first time we hear Daredevil mentioned was him saying to Foggy, like I didn't think you'd want to have the excuse. So it'd be interesting if, like, there's an addiction to Daredevil, which we've dabbled with in the first three seasons. Yeah. But if there's something to him not having that out and he goes too far. Like maybe he didn't want to stop. Maybe he seemed like he was trying to not do it. They were kicking him until they pushed him to the point where he just.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Once he broke, like he doesn't have the restraint because he's not getting his punches out. Like day to day, he gets to meet up people and he's not getting that out. And that's what Wilson Fiss was telling him in the diner. Yeah. So I'd like to see that. I get what they're going with. And I'd rather have a show provoke me. than be like, all right, you're doing with the last show.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Yeah. So, honestly, I'm more, there's, I'm not just saying it. Like, I'm more thrilled by having a conversation like this and, and a debate like this. And a strong emotion towards it. Yeah, a strong emotion. Um, rather than like, yeah, you're, you are trying to replicate. I'd rather than try not to replicate. And, and I appreciate boldness.

Starting point is 00:28:05 I'm a last Jedi fan. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, three of us. Three of us. I was doing the elliptical and I saw elliptical at the gym and I saw Luke Skywalker throw the lightsaber over his shoulder

Starting point is 00:28:16 on the deal like, uh, I have a funny ass moment. So I'm all for at least 100,000 of travers deviating. I'm all for try. I'm all for the boldness. If it, if they honor if it's if it's still somehow makes me go character wise and

Starting point is 00:28:34 they're handling it via through the character and it's called born again. So as this. was an action of Matt Murdoch not necessarily Daredevil, right? Which is, you know, it's an argument to be made about that. So I would like to see I'm looking for, I'm looking for, I can't wait for next week. And I'm glad this is the pause. Yeah, I cannot wait for next week

Starting point is 00:28:52 still to see episode three because I'm like, now I really got to see how this is. And this is why you're repaired is that moment. Like, I think the reason one and two repaired is because they needed the andor space, but now we're all like, we have to wait a week. Yeah. Another thing that's interesting about this show is the fact that when they originally shot it, right? It was the fact they didn't have Karen and Foggy

Starting point is 00:29:10 included in the show at all. And now they put Karen on the other side of the country and they killed Foggy and then they're not in this episode at all. So I'm curious to know how much Karen is going to play a part in this role or in this season.

Starting point is 00:29:23 But I know that they just announced that she was extended and it's going to be in the second season. Yeah, her contract. Oh, what? Why would they ruin that? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, they put it. Oh, God. She lives.

Starting point is 00:29:39 I'm sorry to tell you that. She's a horse ghost. Don't do the whole anyone can die thing and tell us that they're going to be back. Did you hear they announced today? They announced it today. A cast member. Do you hear they announce today? Matthew Lillard.

Starting point is 00:29:51 Matthew Lillard too. I love him so much. I hope he's Jester. Because he's my he's my time travel carnage casting. If I could time traveling pull anyone from the past 90s, Matthew Lillard for carnage. Speaking of course, it's fun. I'm pretty sure Karen Page is with Tom Hardy's been.

Starting point is 00:30:08 Oh, right now over there in San Francisco, too, which is in San Francisco's like motorcycle with better. But I'm guessing they put them in as a sense of continuity, but Karen is not going to be a poignant part of this season of the show. I think she's more important next. Maybe part of the redemption. Maybe she's still in the terms of dialogue scenes. I felt like the closest this show has come to matching it was the scene when they were after the trial of Bullseye and Kim. I mean, Karen, we're out, and, like, all that subtext of, like, all that shit going on underneath. And Matt's like, no, no, I'm trying to, like, connect with you and she, she can't or something.

Starting point is 00:30:47 Like, I'm like, this is the closest. That's the closest, I feel like it's really come to capturing that. And that's possible. Yeah. The show did a great, the original show did a great job of capturing that emotional melancholy. And I feel like this show hasn't quite done that yet. They haven't really dove in deep. And I feel like now that we put Matt in a position to reenter his relationship with their devil,

Starting point is 00:31:07 I think maybe we'll get some of that in the third episode We haven't had that internal conflict thus far I'm still gonna say top tier marvel so far Even though the second one dipped from an A plus down to an A minus for me I'm still I'm still elated that it is this good This invented a minor But yeah episode two is still an A It's just a minus versus A plus for me

Starting point is 00:31:25 Episode one like that was as good as the my favorite So like we're still at an A like average for me I just want to defend a little because I know we've We started positive went negative I just want to still say like Why we go negative? why we're going to do that trailer thing and put this in front of the review reaction that way we get our clicks no but i i think uh it's still exceptional and i and i'm still like i'm so excited for next week now that we have a week of like fiending yeah yeah yeah no i can't i i'm still

Starting point is 00:31:54 looking for i might now i'm like i am more curious than ever to see what they do now with episode three i'm curious to see now that if matt has killed what his relationship with the punisher is now going to look like right now that they've crossed that line what a timing also So, aren't you glad to split this into two? So you had the joy for the review? I am very glad. Yes. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:12 It's a lot to chew on. That's I'm just, now we dissect it. All right, we'll be back. Next week, you lovelies, for episode three of Daredevil born again. Are those men dead? Will it be addressed? Has Matt murdered? Will punter should be like brus.

Starting point is 00:32:26 See, it's easier. We'll find out next week. Please hit that like. Leave a comment. What do you think? Are you more mine and errands like exuberant glee with a side of, if there are problems, we'll get there. or Greg's side of, there are problems we'll get there,

Starting point is 00:32:39 but I still have exubering glee, which comes first. Because I'm curious about us out in the comments below, and we'll see you next week.

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The Reel Rejects - DAREDEVIL BORN AGAIN 1x02 Marvel Breakdown & Review

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