The Reel Rejects - DAREDEVIL: BORN AGAIN Episode 4 Breakdown & Review

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Starting point is 00:00:50 this episode is brought to you by Adidas. When the frustration grows and the doubts start to creep in

Starting point is 00:00:57 we all need someone who has our back. To tell us, we'll be okay, to remind us of our ability, to believe, because their belief in us transfers to self-belief and reminds us of all that we're capable of. We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this. This video is brought to you by acorns and prize picks. More on them in just a bit. Episode four, Daredevil, born again. Commence.

Starting point is 00:01:29 All righty. Well, guys, we just watched episode four of Daredevil Born again. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you give us five-star rating on Apple or Spotify. And also, if you enjoyed this episode, it's because of the fine folks over a paper. They edited down these highlights so that you could be able to watch it on YouTube. So we appreciate all their hard work. They are amazing. Also, rejignation shop.com. It's where you get cool teas like these. We got an amazing shirt out right now. Fiskey business. Go get it right now. let's lead it off greg what do you would how do you feel by the way i want to i want to how do you feel that's good thank you for us oh you're welcome you're welcome that's what i'm here uh yeah no i love the show i think it's a good show i think it's a really good show i feel like uh consistency counts and the the ability to develop and improve and grow and this episode was a good myriad of doing things from the past whilst i'm going to cut this out of the review andrew please yeah thank you um let me cut that so uh let me find this flow again i think it's a good uh myriad of uh things from the past that managed to be a good blend of both okay i'll just talk about

Starting point is 00:02:54 the punisher scene the punisher scene like the punisher scene in particular was like there's a lot writing on how they execute this one scene right now it could just be like a good nostalgia moment we've had characters return or show up on screen we had it with wilson fiske and hawkeye where it's like oh he's back i'm not loving this as much as i thought i would and they did it they made a great punisher scene with him and matt that not that wasn't just a reminder of like the greatness of john bernthal but it's also the greatness of what these two characters can do to bring out of each of one another whilst that they've been like breaking down matt this whole time to rebuild him back up so he can be born again as daredevil and that scene was

Starting point is 00:03:45 such a great like breaking moment for matt that i think this episode is the the best blend of the old and the new when it comes to the new style that these creatives are doing and with the old like this feels like a great sequel episode and so three was my favorite

Starting point is 00:04:07 and I'd probably put like the high I don't know about it as a whole it took me a while to fully grasp like what are they doing with this whole thing with the guy getting arrested over the cereal boxes it took a while like really grasp onto like what is the point of this

Starting point is 00:04:20 and when I did it clicked but the the moments in the last half of this whole episode from like the Wilson Fisk, the messa therapy scene to the Punisher scene and knowing where that's going to lead to, I imagine five and six are going to be like dedicated to the adventures of Daredevil and Punisher. And the reveal of where Adam is this whole time. I just, I feel like it's a, this show has really been like the first episode I love, second episode was like, I don't know how I'm going to feel about this. And now I'm like, okay, I pretty much love this show. And I'd be surprised if it just feels like it's

Starting point is 00:04:54 getting better and better when it's already pretty strong right now. So, yeah, I can't wait for next week. Awesome. Aaron, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. Put my mic back in because we're talking. I liked the episode. I think I'm possibly more in the Greg camp or it was in the second episode.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Not that I had qualms with it per se, but this one definitely felt like a stepping stool episode largely. that being said i did enjoy the stuff that we were getting like the stuff with frank and matt was probably the best stuff in the episode like matt really letting that vulnerability out because frank is pushing him and challenging him to recognize his pain and then connecting his pain to his own i thought that was a beautiful scene and the further evolution or escalation of you know the state of Vanessa and wilson fist's relationship also him being kind of bad at being like a mayor at least the public aspect of being a mayor i thought that stuff was a little entertaining and yeah this one this one felt more like a an addition into the the pressure cooker of matt turning back but

Starting point is 00:06:06 i felt that feeling permeating throughout in the last episode with the the case and his reflection kind of putting back on him and seeing somebody else get their flowers when he hasn't had the opportunity to get himself in the city i thought that was really really cool and interesting. But yeah, I'm enjoying it overall. I like getting the tease of Mews. I'm still curious as to know how he's going to play into all of this overall. I'm liking the supporting characters. I think Heather is really interesting playing both this emotional role for Fisk and for Matt and for Vanessa, but doing it in two totally different ways, one on the professional side, the other, the more interpersonal relationship. Yeah, I'm like I've left feeling

Starting point is 00:06:53 only episode. I'm like, that was good. I wasn't like, hadn't had my, my mind blown, but I was like, yeah, I liked where this is going. It wasn't a step down. It was just like a steady. And that's how I feel right now. Awesome. Fellow geek checked, Coy, how are we feeling? I think I liked it a little more. In my experience, it felt like a escalation to, like, I feel like the second act's about to kick off. And though I don't disagree of the bridge element, like I liked the bridge, I think a little bit more. But I love the paralleling they've done with every episode of Matt and Wilson

Starting point is 00:07:29 and the journey they've gone on that mirrors each other. That has been the strength of the show since Netflix. But this episode it felt like the most literal one where it was, what would it take for two men who have sworn an oath to do a thing to break and fall back into their old

Starting point is 00:07:45 ways? And I really like that Wilson is just under duress of singing. Like I love the pressure of being the mayor being one thing, but also just like people not understanding, you just need to get it done and people not, like he can't take bureaucracy and he can't take the mundane, he can't take people not understanding, like all the things that would drive him insane, like in one episode, we had the bureaucracy and red tape, we had someone messing up and though it ended well for him,

Starting point is 00:08:13 it was him not being able to handle it as usual way, which was a moment of strength that then mirrored his conversation with his wife later, but you also had obviously all the singing and that madden is building up. But I love that underneath, we've always had Adam in a cage. Just like underneath, we always knew Matt was going to come back. He didn't get rid of his stuff. It was always like waiting for him. And then Matt, he's already lost faith in one way.

Starting point is 00:08:36 He hasn't been to church in a year. And that's always been like what the show has been about. I love that him losing faith in the law. And losing faith in that system is what's kind of driving him. So to have Punisher be someone who's worked outside of the law, someone who lost their ability to believe. and I also love that they each used each other's language. Matt referred to service, which Punisher served,

Starting point is 00:09:01 and Punisher referred to guilt, which is what Matt says it's his work. So I really love the visual language of the dance each of them was doing to press the other ones buttons. Matt wanted to press Punisher's buttons because he wanted to fight, and Matt wanted to be there for that violence. So he used the language that would trigger,

Starting point is 00:09:20 which was also an element that I really enjoyed, John or sorry Frank most and that was that use of service and then he was struck by that word and like got viscerally angry and then in turn I love that he was saying guilty guilty guilty a word that would like cause that riling up in Matt as a lawyer and also the moment he's going through feeling guilty of his friend so there's this really incredible use of language throughout this episode that all mirrors the visuals we're getting with them to paralleling that also moves the plot forward all while we have this undercurrent of what's going to bring them all together with like an underlying message and that's muse. And I really liked that the episode didn't end on a cliffhanger with punisher like it could have. And I think most shows would have. Instead it reminds you who the show is about, which is the Daredevil and Kingpin

Starting point is 00:10:04 dynamic being paralleling back and forth and then button of the thing that's going to bring it all to a crazy boiling point, which is me. So I thought this was really well crafted. And personally, this episode felt like a graphic novel to me where I was like, oh, this issue, this is this, this is, oh my God, and then we're done it all! So I got a lot of this. Awesome. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:22 I really enjoyed this episode as well. I agree with everything you guys are saying. Just really quick, to answer Aaron's question about how did Frank know that Matt was Daredevil, I believe in Season 2, right? Yeah, in season, obviously they had that whole scene on the rooftop where they were talking. And then when I believe he was asking him some questions, either in the hospital room or at the courtroom, one of those two scenes, it was one of those two scenes. John Bernthau, Frank gave a look at him saying, I know you are Daredevil now.

Starting point is 00:10:50 so I believe that's to answer your question he also saved him off the rooftop with his sniper but he didn't take his mask off no no no it was nothing like that but again his mask was off on the rooftop wasn't it when he no when he was chained up no he's like it's not important who you are I don't I don't know when he saved him when he was like fighting in the hand or something like that at the end of season two and Punisher saves his ass on the rooftop he should his mask off yeah Matt's mask was off and then it reveals it's like oh Punisher shot the guy when he has a sniper I might you might you might be right on that but I always took it as...

Starting point is 00:11:20 It's been nine years. I always took it also... Again, you might be right, but I also... I didn't rewatch that season, but I was like... You would think Aaron and I would be honest. That stood out to me because I was like, yeah. Again, it stood out to me because of the way Frank his body language and the way he responded, like, in the courtroom,

Starting point is 00:11:37 like he knows. There was some things I took away that I like the teasing of the niece. I like how intuitive she is. I did mention it during the reaction that, I really like the parallel on how much Wilson Fis sees of himself, a scared little boy that looks up to him in, what's his name, James Gandefini's son. I forgot the character's name, right? But I do like that parallel that's fascinating because he was ready to ostracize him and almost get physical with him. But again, he sees a lot of himself in him when he was younger and what his father used to do to him so that, again, he was feeling vulnerable in that moment to not do anything, not react.

Starting point is 00:12:19 but then also give him a stern warning not to make that type of mistake. I think that's going to cause, I mean, just a little prediction, but I think that's going to cause him because I think it was you, Greg, who said, like, oh, when we were watching that scene happen when he was getting drunk with BB, that is he kind of using her in this position when he's drunk? I feel like he is going to learn from the errors of his ways with her, and he might set her up in the future to do that. So I'm curious what is going to happen in that.

Starting point is 00:12:50 But I find their dynamic and their chemistry is so damn good, those two actors. By the way, just really quick, this has nothing to do with anything. You know me, how I like to do stuff like this. But I find it interesting, the Ben Affleck Daredevil movie, the bully for Matt Murdoch, when they're younger, is James Gandoffini's son in the Sopranos. And then his actual son is in the, in Daredevil. So both James Gandepini's sons, one in the Sopranos. That's right. Fictional Gandalfleck and Real Gandoffini.

Starting point is 00:13:17 I just thought about that. I was like, oh, my God. I totally forgot about that. Random thought. But yeah, no, that scene with, in the therapist's office, I thought that was great, too. I just, again, like how intuitive and we get to see, because we haven't really seen too much of her character. So I liked seeing, like, you could see, too, the interrogation side with Heather, where she's like, so what happened to Adam? Where's Adam?

Starting point is 00:13:45 She was like, she was really trying to question Wilson. I think she had a feeling like he's, even if he is holding him captive or whatever the answer is, he's not going to lay it out there for him, uh, for her rather. So, but I do like that instinct to do that. I do fear, um, because I think Koi is going to be absolutely right that that guy who was a, like, they made it very establishing that that guy is like. Of some importance. Yeah, of some importance. So I have a feeling that you are correct. And I have a feeling too that he's going to hurt or harm her in some way. And that's could drive man off the deep end possibly. We'll see. I think Adam's played by my friend

Starting point is 00:14:21 Lou Taylor Pucci. Oh, really? Yeah. It was really hard to see through the bars, but I was like, I think it's my buddy Lou. Yeah, with the way it was lit up. Yeah, I'm sure. But I think if you guys seen Evil Dead, the new remake with New Dead. Yeah, I love that one.

Starting point is 00:14:35 Lou and that is, and he's friends with Justin and Aaron. I think it was Lou. Really? I don't snap. Okay, do we have a name for Adam? Adam, Lou Taylor. Lou Taylor Bochee. Hey! Hey! She's doing the work Yeah, he's buddies with Justin Aaron

Starting point is 00:14:51 So it makes sense He did this movie spring with him Yeah, it was very quick I was like baby That was John Berthel Oh, Christy! What? What?

Starting point is 00:15:00 I got to say to this show Not being predictable I'm impressive Yeah, it is But like that scene with the guy In the bodega stealing the stuff I'm like he is so ungrateful And I just thought

Starting point is 00:15:13 That's what we were going to stay with them Like okay cool But then when it got into the real life stuff and what he was explaining, like, holy shit, this is actually hitting deep, but I was also not expecting it and the way it was affecting Matt as well, and like shaking his faith in the system as well, and also us as an audience. Like, I was not expecting that. Again, this is the type of writing and the type of storytelling that I gravitate towards, and I was really appreciative of that. Reject Nation, like many of you, I'm assuming, I didn't come from what you would

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Starting point is 00:18:49 flawed systematically flawed and as it progressed it's like oh that's brilliant like what what they did in this episode with him because it's such a small tiny crime but even down to the tiny not like some massive televised trial of punisher or white tiger but a really tiny crime And, like, oh, man, I can't even really fix something like this on this kind of level. Like, you're talking about how he's learned, how he's really beginning to see the law is not effective. And there's so much about the conversation of what is vigilantism, is that okay? And I think this is the, because even the other show, the seasons are constantly having the debate of like, should I be a lawyer? Should I not?

Starting point is 00:19:35 Foggy didn't want me to be daredevil. He says, I should just go by the law. It's constantly the debate that he's having. and I feel like part of where this show is going to land is some type of true, genuine marriage of both in some way. That seems like it's always been kind of the goal and he's never quite achieved it. And I think in some capacity we're going to get there,

Starting point is 00:19:56 but that requires some extremism on both sides before we can find that perfect balance. If this ends like the Mark Wade run where he reveals that Matt Murdoch is Daredevil and tries people in court as Daredevil, I will lose my mind. And then Dr. Strange has to erase the memory.

Starting point is 00:20:13 No one knows who but if they go registration act they're like people reveal on their identity I'm going to lose my mind. I also really I love it for what they did with Wilson Fiske here. Like we guys were pointing out

Starting point is 00:20:25 both of both the points you two were making particularly was one is you're seeing this side of him hating being mayor and it's actually kind of funny like it's funny in a way where I was going to myself throughout this episode like he just seems so human in the therapy session it's missing

Starting point is 00:20:46 some of that larger than life like terrifying Wilson Fis presence it really was it's amusing it's entertaining but man I am kind of missing that and then to have the ending moment you're like holy shit this guy's got everyone fooled even his own wife who he would let in on everything that that was the ending moment in season three with her was I'm gonna you're gonna know everything Yeah. And this, he's not, he's lying in therapy. He's lying directly to her face at dinner. Like, oh my God, the monster has been there.

Starting point is 00:21:18 And he's literally just having this, like, fancy ass feast to himself. Where in public, he is embodying the person. He's lying to literally everyone, including Vanessa. Including us. Including us. Like, we, the viewers got the same treatment and did not see him for who he was anymore. That's the difference. It's like Matt's lying to himself about what he.

Starting point is 00:21:39 he really wants to do. Whereas Wilson knows he's lying. Wilson is intentionally doing. He's like, I'm just going to keep putting up this act. And so like it didn't. It was weird. Like as a packaged episode as a whole, it took me a while to really get like, what is this episode doing? But by the time it ended all those questions that I was sort of having about how it was feeling, I was like, damn, this episode's brilliant. Like I actually really, I give this episode a lot of high praise for its final effects that it had. And it's last like 15, 20 minutes greatly recontextualized the experience of the first half of the episode, too.

Starting point is 00:22:17 I agree. Yeah, I thought it was really strong. And it was crazy that in the first couple of episodes we had a conversation about how, oh, Wilson Fis just eats his little egg. I thought it was chicken up the time, but he eats his egg and he just one asparagus. And he's trying to be good.

Starting point is 00:22:29 He's on the path to losing weight. But in the darkness and the secret, he has this whole carb-heavy feast in the shadows of where nobody can, see him except for this guy who's getting the, he's getting the experience of the kingpin in private. So it's this thing that's privately

Starting point is 00:22:47 creeping back up. How he loses bad food to taunt. Like he did it with the Philly cheese stick. He did it. He did it. Adam right here. I love it. I'm sure he's not, yeah, I'm sure he's definitely not feeding that guy. Yeah, and also too, Aaron, we talked about this

Starting point is 00:23:03 in private. It's been interesting because this is, I assume, canon right, to season one and two of Punisher. Yeah, sure. Probably. Yeah, we mentioned that it's interesting because Frank, he retired. He's Punisher. He retired. He's Punisher. And now it appears he's retired again, right? He's spotting a kill, right? He's still hunting. Okay. And he's credited as Punisher. But he's not, he's not the vigilante punisher. Like, he's, I think he's just, Frank

Starting point is 00:23:29 the killer. He's just not using the moniker. Yeah. Well, I did see in the background, there was like a hundred guns in the background. So I guess, yeah, he still because. Pretty active. There were like on. Like on. he's still kill monitors yeah yeah true okay because i wasn't sure just because it seemed like he was it it appeared too that he was being secluded in that manager's office so i wasn't a hundred no that's his layer i think what they're doing with have you have you guys seen i mean you must have seen it mine hunter yeah yeah i love i think what they're doing have you any of you guys seen mind hunter the netflix i've started never finish it but there's this

Starting point is 00:23:59 the show never concluded but they were building up this this real killer uh btk killer and they would cut to him like at the beginning of an episode or end of an episode. Yeah, that's right of that muse. Yeah, that's what I'm building to. Because without a lot of screen time, we've got a lot of anticipation. This guy's like a serial killer, you know. And the name of vigilante is a video, but he's a serial killer.

Starting point is 00:24:20 The part of the show that I have not, it's weird. Like, there are, I don't want this to be taken the wrong way because there's aspects that I really like. And I think they weirdly have chemistry yet. I feel like there's so much thinness about the way it's being executed at the same time. Like, it's possible to have multiple feelings about a subject. the relationship with Matt and his girlfriend. There's something there that just feels so, like, thin on execution and paper,

Starting point is 00:24:47 in spite of them having great chemistry, in spite of me liking the therapy stuff. Like, they're moving really fast. It's mounting to something. But I'm like, she's kind of just serviced as a love interest with a therapist, as a therapist who has, like, no sneaking suspicion about any of activities that he does. But at least she hasn't let on that she has any real. Unless if I can play devil's advocate. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:08 Yeah, if I can play devil's out of game, I don't think his life has been challenged for a point for there to be a riff. Because I feel like once he dawns daredevil again, that's where he has to be in a position to be in secret. And then that challenge their relationship is what I'm saying. Every time you got to them, they're just like, I like you. I'm saying that I think the nuance. Now I live here sometimes. I think the nuance comes with the conflict, comes with the raising of tension and stakes all around. I also think a problem is we haven't spent a lot of time with that.

Starting point is 00:25:33 No, we haven't. And there's no real depth to their bond of conversation at all. I liked, like, Vanessa learning, uh, availing her past. That was cool. And you're like, oh, no wonder she's attracted to a Wilson. Wilson's a terrible husband. Because he's like, he practiced like, I didn't even know you had a dad. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:53 A father? Like, what? You had another man and your wife. Your dad, like, all this time you've been together. Like, you never asked her a single question about her parents? I also, I definitely don't feel for her safety. And I also think that it would have been a very, like, the original version of the show had a different woman as, like, his wife. Yeah, it's true.

Starting point is 00:26:09 Like they recast to get the original Vanessa. So all of those scenes, I'm like, what would this show have been without that entire, he's the co-lead of the show? That's right. That's right. They brought them back. This is the show. So I'm so glad this is the one we're actually getting.

Starting point is 00:26:21 Yeah, and one last thing I wanted to say, and I'm not enjoying what I can talk. But I think this episode better than the other episodes executed that that relationship with them and paralleling the fact that they were both struggling to not be men who succumbed to their values. violence because he apologized to frank for hitting him and they're both seeing what they're trying to do their intentions are both failing or not working in the way that they would hope it would

Starting point is 00:26:48 work uh matt with the with the guy with the with the market stuff and then Fisk having the red tape with him around him for the building stuff but then you see the thing I loved about this episode he wants to do these things because he wanted to do the gentrification like tear down the old buildings and like build new stuff um in the original series right but the thing that's interesting about this version of it is they're showing that and then immediately following up with well Fisk isn't doing this stuff he's

Starting point is 00:27:16 not addressing the stuff that's actually a problem he's just doing the stuff that he feels will build his legacy up and I think that's an interesting there was invalidated in doing things by the book he's going to build Fis Tower right yeah it seems like it looks like a building towards

Starting point is 00:27:30 mayor Fisk with Fis Towers that's why I like the laughing because it feels more like the comic book Kingpin that yeah I thought he was buying Avengers tower um but i thought he was too and then thunderbolts got it yeah uh but yeah lane owns it i do like that one scene we got two with the dirty cop who apparently is fully healed now um with him maybe months have gone by that's why they lived together even months still he's a scroll yeah he could be but i do like that whole scene where he was threatening mad about you know going to

Starting point is 00:28:00 the bar association etc like i think there's an interesting setup there coming with you know the adventures of daredevil and punisher like going after those dirty cops and all that. I'm really excited especially if we do have Matt reveal that he's daredevil. I could see that happening in this season. That might have been the White Tiger purpose to give a different life. I hope you mentor is White Tiger Jr. You don't feel like that would have been

Starting point is 00:28:20 leaked by now? I'm watching this as quick as we can. I know. I feel like it would have been leaked that's true. I'm saying off the internet. I've muted so many words. Yeah, I hate Twitter. Yeah, I'm saying. He didn't leak. Everyone suspected it but didn't leak out. Oh, it leaked immediately

Starting point is 00:28:36 after the wash. No, yeah. The next day. Wow. Yeah. But the show. It's actually you. Yeah, you were like, oh, my God. It's the Day of the Avengers leased.

Starting point is 00:28:43 Yeah, but the showrunners, they said, something happens. It's going to piss off fans. I'm like, why are you even saying? Yeah. I remember it leaked a long time ago. I remember hearing the rumor about that and I totally forgot. I assumed it was the old show. So did I.

Starting point is 00:28:58 So that's why I was like, must not be this one. Yeah, yeah. But I, that's why I'm like, you know, we're watching this a little ahead, but like, not super head. So in the meantime, I'm just like, no internet. Like, I just don't want to. But yeah, I think that's all I got to say in this episode Now Koi understands what I had to go through for Deadpool and Wolverine

Starting point is 00:29:14 God damn it It's better though, I'm happier not on the internet Yeah The gift I mean you definitely get a lot more peace of mind I'll say that And thanks done Do you any more final thoughts guys before we know

Starting point is 00:29:26 Welcome back Frank I'm glad Aaron finally had an episode Yeah Maybe I'll hate the next one The key checks are going to hate one together Yeah Yeah, so we love hating things. Anyways, guys, we hope you enjoyed it.

Starting point is 00:29:42 If you stayed with us this song, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Make sure you tune in next time when we will be back with episode five of Daredevil Born again. And see you guys later. Take care. Buss. Tyler Haig. Dude, it's time to declare you.

Starting point is 00:29:58 You're the king king. Of our YouTube channel. Oh, my God. Yes, you are. Here you are. smashing heads getting your own Vanessa dude I can actually you know think about it and all sincerity you'd look pretty dope in like a kingpin white suit wouldn't he oh yeah absolutely white suit he just undercutta what you guys got a lot of screens I can watch the

Starting point is 00:30:24 whole city yeah that's where kingpin does and dare us three yeah we finally found You need, after all these years, all these, the fact that we talked to him about multiple screens, the one thing that actually fits the same as Kingpin, and there has multiple screens watching over the city. Which would be good. I would be happy if you were watching. You would be a benevolent Kingpin, I feel like. Yeah. It would be a very chill-ass Kingpin. You're like, I'm the King.

Starting point is 00:30:55 I got to do good by the people. Yeah. I got to look after everyone. And even if you're beating someone with both hands, like a large, you know, angry baby, there's still like, you know, that pleasant look on your face. We would get the sense that, like, really, this is probably what's for the best. That's more than true, John. More than true. You're the kingpin.

Starting point is 00:31:14 You're the kingpin. You're the kingpin, Tyler. Hague pin. Ooh.

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