The Reel Rejects - DAREDEVIL: BORN AGAIN SEASON 2 EPISODE 5 REVIEW – THE NETFLIX ERA RETURNS IN FULL FORCE

Starting point is 00:00:00 Citizens of Hell's Kitchen, we are back for Daredevil Born Again, Season 2, Episode 5. This show has just been getting better and better and better. And now I'm feeling better because I'm next to this guy right here. Are you good, Andrew? I'm good. I love this show. Mama Mia. How are you? And goy.

Starting point is 00:00:26 I'm just happy to be here at 7.5. All right, guys. Let's do it, guys. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we have just watched Daredevilborn again, Season 2, Episode 5. And if you'd like to support the channel and get a little something in return, you can go to our Patreon page where you get the full reaction watch alone, re-single with your own copy,

Starting point is 00:00:52 help offset the copyright claims that we often get as well as you can go to rejuctationshop.com. There's other teasing you can go over there to help support the Chanel. Outside of that, we had an episode That was a lot about forgiveness, Atonement, memory. Wow. And a bit of nostalgia thrown in there.

Starting point is 00:01:12 Thrown into the mix, man. Throw into the mix. Andrew, I know that when we started born again season one, you had done a whole rewatch of this entire show as well as Aaron did. How does it feel to go back to this time? How are you feeling about Vanessa, the loss of Vanessa right now? I mean, definitely in the fields for sure. Well, first of all, I like that they recreated the feel, first of all, the Netflix show.

Starting point is 00:01:41 I mean, those three seasons, some of my favorite TV ever, just not even in a superhero show. But I think it's incredibly just compelling when you can make me feel something like this, because Wilson Fiske is a crime boss. And also Vanessa, she's also a cold, ruthless. I mean, she's, there's a lot of depth to the character, but she's also a cold for this killer. She had foggy killed. And, you know, for me to feel this much, you know, when she passes, like, I think that that's a lot of credence to the writers and also to the actors, too, for me to feel this much for characters who are antagonist, rather. and Vincent Donofrio and the actress who plays Vanessa, incredible acting,

Starting point is 00:02:33 and it was just the suspense in every single scene I felt in this episode, the drama. I mean, this is a deliberate slow pace, this entire episode. There is no action at all. Yet I was like, I had never felt the pacing for one second, and I was involved in every single scene. I felt every moment of it. This is some of the best storytelling I've seen.

Starting point is 00:02:57 and the drama, just incredible. And I think flashbacks and nonlinear storytelling can be very compelling, can be very tricky, too. And I think Greg made a very good point when he said you have to justify its existence when you are telling it. And the way they were doing it, the way that it was edited into the storytelling in this episode was so poignant and so well done. Because the way you were showing it, especially with Matt and Foggy, like I was just happy to see Foggy, even if they didn't do it in a great storytelling perspective, I would have been. just happy to see foggy. But the way you were showing it because you have a clashes of ideologies when it comes to Foggy, or excuse me, when it comes to Matt and when it comes to Bolzai, I mean, Matt has this

Starting point is 00:03:39 moral, you know, he's got this belief in morality and he's got justice and all that. And Bolzai's the very dark mirror of that. And he's, he's an agent of chaos. And, you know, Foggy has, you know, has, you know, a lot of, all Foggy's goodness has bled over onto Matt, you know, even through death. And the fact of why he doesn't tiptoe into that literal devil is, you know, it's passed on through foggy over into Matt. And I love that they were showing that through flashbacks and it was just so well done. And really got that that feel from that Netflix era, but also too, while still

Starting point is 00:04:20 staying relevant into this episode, but it was just so well done. And I'm very interesting. interested to see like how Karen, because even though Karen and Matt, they have such incredible chemistry, they also have a little bit of a difference of ideology, too. She leans more over into Frank's perspective when it comes to that. So now seeing

Starting point is 00:04:41 Pulsive being over there, especially he's the one who killed Foggy. I'm interested to see how those interactions are going to go. But this might have been one of my favorite episodes ever when it comes to Daredevil. It was incredible. That's awesome. We're here.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Yeah. Coy, you have a lot of association with Vanessa and Wilson, because you have a lot more comic knowledge than everyone here combined. But you also have a love for the show. You seem affected. Are you conflicted? Are you, what's your feelings here right now? It's really interesting because I found myself very aware

Starting point is 00:05:14 that I was judging bullseye more than Kingpin, and I was very impressed with how good the writing was that I would feel anything, knowing everything Andrew just said, like, that feeling of coldness that Vanessa can have, They've really turned around this season and the feeling of like removal of any sort of humanity you can feel for like a mob boss or, you know, a hypercriminal. But this episode was, it was really interesting because one of my little zingy catchphrases I say all the time when writing is good is that every punch lands twice so you can care about a character. I talk about it a lot because it means a lot to me.

Starting point is 00:05:52 That idea came to me during Daredevil season one. and it never extended to Vanessa. Like I always was like, you know, Vincent Xenofrio and Charlie Cox. And then I was really interesting because it became Matt and Wilson. Then it became Daredevil and Kingpin and all these different things. They just added layers. But this show, this season of this show, has made Vanessa another angle on that. So I was really impressed with how, you know, in the comic books, Kingpin is, he's introduced in Spider-Man.

Starting point is 00:06:23 Amazing Spider-Man number 50. and you are invested in Spider-Man, and Kingpin is just this kind of brute, bad guy that grows on you through time. Like, you get to know, Wilson Fisk, and he has a son who's a crime lord known as the Rose, which I think the Rose stuff's going to come in, and Vanessa is a compelling character only, like,

Starting point is 00:06:47 after you care about Kingpin, can you care about Vanessa? So in an interesting way, we've been so invested in Kingpin for five years. to be honest like he's probably the villain we've seen the most maybe next to only loki because he's got this he's got hawk eye he's got like he's he's everywhere but it took venezsa getting an episode for us to see a side of wilson that i didn't know we were missing and we've seen him as a little boy but we've never seen that little boy as an innocent so it was really interesting to see a layer of a character that we've seen the i idea of that layer, but we haven't seen it actualized. And it was really cool to use our nostalgia for a show and not use it for nostalgia's sake. I think one of the most dangerous things this era might be known for in 20 years. Like when we look back at the 70s, certain kind of film, the 80s, certain kind of film, I do worry that the 20 teens into 2020s is nostalgia that isn't always deserved. And, you know, as a narrative flashback as Greg mentioned like a flashback can be undeserved but I think even worse than that is when nostalgia

Starting point is 00:08:00 is used as fluff as used as like you know, uh, TikTok. Um, and this did something really interesting where it used our nostalgia, it used our love, it told a non-linear story that brought everything together, but

Starting point is 00:08:16 it also reminded us when we met these characters, so we felt time. Like we just felt seven years, 10 years to the first season, but we just felt all this time. And that subconsciously connected us to Vanessa then. And it put our time with these characters in together. So while they were having Foggy and Matt as like a great element of all the narrative

Starting point is 00:08:38 choices, it also gave us all of this depth of time that I think made us care about Vanessa even more subconsciously. So it's kind of a masterclass and when and why to use things while also kind of masterfully thrown its dick around going like, we could have just made. the Netflix show. But instead, we're going to use the Netflix show as the artist that was on this run before us. Here are these flashbacks. Here are these deleted scenes that aren't actually from that time.

Starting point is 00:09:05 But like, here's this artist representation in our trade paperback. Enjoy this issue with some of that art. And that strengthens this run. Strengthens that run. Brings it all together in a narrative. This sexy. This is real good. Sexy grief.

Starting point is 00:09:21 Sexy grief. Like going to Vegas. Yeah. Well, Aaron. Hi. Now, we have talked so much about the Netflix hero of a television here. Yeah. I am curious, you know, like as someone who often gets fascinated with the psychology of people,

Starting point is 00:09:41 do you find yourself empathizing with Wilson in this moment, or are you like, ah, but these are like bad people? Where is your heart kind of land in this department? man that is a great question and then kind of building off of what coy was saying that this show is able to utilize the stuff that we know and

Starting point is 00:10:06 love about the character of Fisk and then that now extending to Vanessa I feel like it did give me a sense of being even more endeared to him I feel like what makes him so captivating

Starting point is 00:10:22 as a character is the fact that he is both threatening and also very human at the same time. He is someone who was flawed, who was a little weird, who didn't quite fit in. And this romance that he developed with Vanessa in the original Netflix series is what gave him a sense of humanity, is what brought him to be a man rather than a villain and a monster. And granted, those aspects, those were aspects of his character, but his desires, his effect, and his drive was often rooted in him maintaining a piece of his humanity or reclaiming it with his affection for Vanessa. You know, he wanted to shield her from this world for so long in that original show.

Starting point is 00:11:08 And yeah, his way of connecting with the art world and her was him trying to become the man, the rest of the world, his world didn't see him as. Right. And it was beautiful. watching that and he didn't even let her into his world until the third season. So you get this sense of she was the last tether to something that was tangibly emotional about him from a peer place. And over time, obviously we see in this show, she was kind of, he was the thing that brought, she was the thing that brought light to him. And then he brought darkness to her.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Then she was very much in his world to the point where she was now murdering people at the end of season one. So it was interesting watching that last episode that we witnessed with him kind of doing some things that were reverting back. We're trying to get her out of the city because that's what he did, I believe in, in season three, because in season two of the OG show because he was going to jail. and seeing now all of his choices now have an effect on him as he's mayor, as he is in this era, and his worst fears are now realized, something that never got to come to fruition in that original series. And you really feel for him as we're watching this episode here. And I feel like it was a very smart and unexpected decision for them to slow down and have an episode entirely. devoid of action that we have not really come accustomed to because in the Netflix

Starting point is 00:12:55 shows like 13 episodes we only have eight here even less than the last season so the fact that this was entirely drama this was entirely emotion both on the mat side of the story and the fifth side of the story was an exercise in patience and I feel like one that really paid off it really showed us that these are not just superhero characters but characters that we've become extremely endeared to and I like the fact that he dropped the the voice that we associate with Fisk in that tender

Starting point is 00:13:27 moment in that that hospital room because we've all become so synonymous with the finesse of like voice and like even to the point where they're parading him in the show itself but for him to drop into that innocence

Starting point is 00:13:42 and elevate his his uh his voice to a place of of tenderness and fear and allowing Vanessa to see that where she sees someone who is very strong I think it was it really touched me

Starting point is 00:13:59 in a way because that's just not something that we associate with him and that even in our weakest moments you know we are that is where we're the most human and I'm scared for both Wilson

Starting point is 00:14:15 and for the city shit because we haven't seen this version of Fisk who is he without a Vanessa you know we've seen a version of that in Spider-Verse because she got killed in that and he blamed Spider-Man for that

Starting point is 00:14:30 but in that one she had a son but this version of him yeah I'm scared for what's to come and I RIP Vanessa I think nothing's more tragic than

Starting point is 00:14:45 when Echo wouldn't talk to him. Oh yeah, his daughter. Yeah, yeah. It was really sad, guys. You're all forgetting about that chapter. That was the most painful. And when his daughter shot him in the face.

Starting point is 00:15:00 Really saw a sad side of him. Echo. Everyone's favorite show. I think it's a common thing to be like, I agree with you, what everything you guys said. So I'm going to say I completely disagree with what everyone here said. And you're all wrong. And I'm going to say all the right things.

Starting point is 00:15:18 this this was a compelling piece of television on multi-layers and I think this is a receiving experience that is very complex the whole thing kind of feels like it's about humanity to me where

Starting point is 00:15:39 we intentionally see who Wilson is before he met Vanessa like literally the moments before and then we're cutting to who he is after at the same time. You are seeing who Matt was early on in the days before fog. He let the time of foggy really change and affect him before it was like Murdoch and Nelson.

Starting point is 00:16:02 Before it was Nelson and Murdoch, it was Murdoch and Nelson is like, and how do I let Nelson lead me now? And this show, this episode soon to be about the people we meet in our lives and how they can change us for the better. so you see how Vanessa was able to bring out a different side and change it for the better. You see how foggy was able to change Matt for the better. I actually really love what they did with Matt, especially, because I think in the Netflix era, and something that we have often talked about, and I was kind of emphasizing a lot last week,

Starting point is 00:16:35 how Catholic this show really is. Traditionally, I would get the impression that Matt would do all this in the name of God when it comes to bull's eye. and there was a lot of that guilt, penance, why he would do this to make to atone. I love that he chose mercy, though, not because that's what God and Catholicism is not going to do. I love that he chose mercy because that's what Foggy would do.

Starting point is 00:17:00 That Foggy would want him to show mercy to his own killer in that moment, you know? Yeah. And with the parallels that the show is constantly drawing between all these characters, it was neat to then cut to Wilson, who you know is not going to show mercy, you know? It's going to be like a completely antithetical experience as to what Matt is doing.

Starting point is 00:17:22 So it's cool. It's like this pivotal positioning experience in this episode for where it's placed at in the season because you're watching a trajectory of what's going to happen with Daredevil and Bullseye because of the choice that Matt makes on forgiveness for the killer. Now to the same killer, Wilson is going to probably make a completely different choice. You know, and not let the good. because he kind of like did like as you were saying Aaron like he kind of did

Starting point is 00:17:50 attack some of that that light that Vanessa probably did have and she got consumed a little bit by Wilson's darkness and then going to the Netflix stuff it was confident it was so interesting to me that they were able to replicate that because I still as a viewer

Starting point is 00:18:06 kind of I think generally I still prefer kind of the look of the Netflix one there's just a bit like there's like a certain everything so like like colors specific And so I'm going to cut back to like the present time of Born Again, which has been looking great this season. It just didn't have as much of like a cool like nix of contrasts. You know, it's like, oh, okay, yeah, this looks like it looks like it's a good looking show.

Starting point is 00:18:32 But we could all identify Netflix for a reason because there was something super specific about the way it looked. Where I can't say like that specificity is this strong in every frame of Born Again. again I don't want that to say it's a bad this is a really good looking show it's just there was a there was a signature appeal about the way the daredevil Netflix era looked so it was it was a big that's where I meant by like conflicting for me

Starting point is 00:18:59 as a bit of a viewer I like I like you're right quite like they part of the part of the appeal of what they've been doing with this season has been like the blend of doing born again and honoring Netflix era and this one was like oh they could have done the Netflix show and I like I like what they're doing

Starting point is 00:19:15 though so I don't want them to just do the Netflix show but I prefer the little so I'm like in conflict with myself I don't know if I'm making any sense the respect the respecting the Netflix show while doing their own thing but I like the assessment that you were saying about it could have just been like you know what if we wanted to yeah you guys want to be born again all right but like we were saying about like mixing in like a different type of artist and going back to that it really feels like a comic in a way I didn't think that could be captured like it's such a specific thing of like look at Ron Garnie's art and then look at Chetto's art and they managed to make it not feel like it's to me a negative it just goes like

Starting point is 00:19:51 and we're now in a new show. Yeah. To me it was a really confident move. Surprising. Surprising. And dude, Foggy's presence. Oh man. It was so good to see all the hensis. So good to see him. He does not miss a beat. I thought it was right to my heart. I thought it was going to be like a little cameo. It was he was like a supporting player again. You know? He was at the premiere and I thought it was just because, you know, he's part of the lore, but then I love that they actually gave him a beat. And I didn't even think of the arc structure, episode five.

Starting point is 00:20:20 We have basically a three-hour movie left. Like, they could make, like, this is the second act. They could just do a crazy third act, three hours. That's what I feel like it's like, that was the inciting incident of like, yeah. Yeah, man. And the way they introduced Buck doing that

Starting point is 00:20:35 in the flashback, too. I thought that was very fascinating. And the tension and suspense with, I mean, we talked about it, a couple episodes back that they the interactions we saw with daniel and buck and that they were building towards this a little bit and how it felt like a soprano's episode i mean this episode was like gray's anatomy soprano's lawn order meets daredevil and uh the lawn order stuff i was like that guy booked a solid guest star he's got to eat off that a while but to that point though andrew is like that when you're bringing up buck that's that that's the part that like what both you and erin are talking about

Starting point is 00:21:07 is wilson affected venezna to this point that she and Buck is like, but no, he can change your life for the better. Yeah. And it's not, though, for the better.

Starting point is 00:21:17 And you're seeing that's what happened with Buck. That could be happening to Daniel, too. Wesley died, even though I know it was Karen, but Wesley died. And Wesley, he trusted the most.

Starting point is 00:21:26 And then it happened with, now it happened with Vanessa, too. Yeah. The consequences of, the consequences of what happens when you become loyal to Wilson. And let's see what happens to Daniel now in the next three episodes

Starting point is 00:21:36 because now he's been put into a level of fear after witnessing what he, what he thought Buck was going to do to him after BB used his kindness and you know, and, you know, leaked that a couple different times and he thought he was going to die, literally.

Starting point is 00:21:54 So, I mean, we saw his lip was literally quivering. Yeah. Before, sorry. No, I was going to say his plausible deniability is now gone because he's like, I feel like things are going on, but I don't want to know, I don't think anything's going on. Now you're in the thick of it. Now you're involved with bodies.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Now you're probably. going to go to Red Hook and see the kingpin in his full unbridled rageful glory now. How are you? See a lot of death. How are you feeling with Bullseye? I mean, I thought he gave a great performance. How are you feeling about

Starting point is 00:22:24 what the path they're taking with him? I think it's interesting because I in Kirk me from my, I believe it was in your interview they were talking about how they're doing something different with Bullseye but like doing the redemptive stuff, right? And I feel like with

Starting point is 00:22:40 Yeah, they got a response in the comments. Sure did. Are you serious? Yeah, people were not. Why are these guys doing the show? They don't understand bullseyes and wild dogs. They were very divided on the idea of like, can you redeem a psychopath? And they're saying he's not a psychopath.

Starting point is 00:22:57 And I'm like, there's an argument to be made for a guy who's been on a mass murder spree for quite some time. Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting because he has, he was so well defined in that original show as someone who, like, needed a sense of structure, needed these kind of guard rails to keep him from going off and doing something crazy. And then for him to then be manipulated by Fisk into becoming this thing.

Starting point is 00:23:23 And I feel like once he fully went off the edge, like he'd been trying to prevent himself from doing for so long like this pressure cooker, now that he's kind of come on the other side of that. For me, it is a plausible thing to see him want to become better. Like in his own twisted way, trying to get redemption because he's been manipulated and guided his whole life. And now he's trying to find a sense of direction for himself.

Starting point is 00:23:48 I think that's a very interesting direction to take the character, even though he's doing it in his own kind of fucked up unhinged kind of way. He's still trying to find what goodness, what does righteousness mean for him? And Matt being somebody who, for better for worse, seeks, you know, God's grace and forgiveness and mercy and now that also being translated and reminded that foggy is someone who kind of gave him some of that as well i think it's interesting kind of coming into this place with bull's eye and feeling like he got even or he's done right by matt because he killed vanessa and now him and fiscron the the same playing field as far as losing somebody at the hands of of him so i'm like that's a very interesting kind of take to to you know play with and I'm wondering where that character goes next as far as what does justice

Starting point is 00:24:45 look like for him what does he want for himself in the wake of quote unquote evening of the odds or settling the score you know can you forget bullseye because sorry I'm no I was like yeah I think it's just interesting to what we're doing here can you forget bull's eye

Starting point is 00:25:01 he played baseball I mean yeah and that's the reason I'm going to forgive him because he played baseball yeah no I think that is an interesting pat to take and I mean we talked about before they have very similar parallels too and i mean wilson did take out his his uh the woman that he i think he was even though he's uh was doing crazy and he's a weird evil shit and it you know before that i mean wasn't going off the deep end yet until wilson manipulated him then when he took out his woman that's really what led him on the path to going this route and uh so i think it makes sense to take to go this

Starting point is 00:25:37 you know, a route of redemption with Bulls. I personally like it. I think it's a good way. And I really felt empathetic towards them in this entire episode. I think it really humanized the character. You know, again, I think it speaks a lot to the writers for me to humanize

Starting point is 00:25:53 with a psychopathic killer. So I think it's fascinating, but that's me. I think if they can redeem Shaw before we knew that Han was still alive, then we can. can redeem bull's eye. Yes. And do you,

Starting point is 00:26:09 what's your take by that? I think it's the most comic booky thing to wait until like a fifth season and then be like, we're going to give you some time with the guy. They're not really like redeeming him. They're just giving him. Depth. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:23 I don't see any of this as like his redemption arc to where like so all of a sudden he's on the Avengers. I see it as giving us a run of a villain. This is the bar with no name. Like we're just getting to know the villains. So therefore we understand. how they work more than it is like, well, now he's a good guy killer. Like, this is a show where you've got Punisher just killing people and you are like,

Starting point is 00:26:47 well, he's kind of right. And you've got like, Kingpin killing people. And you're like, well, that's not right, but you're like, but he loves his wife. Like, it is meant to elicit these emotions. So I think it is very black and white, two-dimensional, whatever surface level it is to say, like, it's a redemption arc. And I don't think that's fair to the character's journey or, you know, When we're talking to Benson and they're having to tell us a journey of their thing,

Starting point is 00:27:14 they're having to truncate the whole thing. And that to me... Without spoiling. Exactly. They couldn't even say whether or not the bitch and apartment 23 is in the show. But that to me is a very interesting way to get people to watch a thing without it actually being the action item of the goal. So I love when we have a villain arc.

Starting point is 00:27:34 I love when we get to get to no shocker because I'm like, that's a fast. guy and he's just yeah like I want bull's eye to have more layers than just like I good throw yeah if it's just bad guy who just kills him like okay I've seen that a million times so this was interesting to me because it isn't to me redemptive it also

Starting point is 00:27:50 kind of plays into my thing I was talking about either last week of the week before about like the moment I'm like Matt no like this is the pinnacle of that like I think Karen is going to be feeling what I feel about every time Matt's like the system works be like so to me it's exciting to see

Starting point is 00:28:06 potentially another character be like Matt, you got a problem. It's your own guilt, right? Yeah, it'll be interesting seeing how those two characters kind of go ahead in the face of Bullseye now being in their hideout, knowing where their hideout is. Yeah. Well, guys, do you think Bullseye should join the Avengers? Definitely. Leave your thoughts to him.

Starting point is 00:28:26 I never noticed his collar was comic accurate until we got to see him close up. They did the three striped. And he has the Bulls and his mask as well. Does he? Yeah. That one's easier to miss. There's certain shots you can't really see it. We didn't even really talk about...

Starting point is 00:28:38 Give me that 4K. Pauls, I need to see that shit. The cinematography in this episode was absolutely incredible. The handheld. Yeah, you mentioned it during. I did like the end of the same thing. Well, the Netflix era had a very specific handheld. And I was like, damn, they even replicated that shit.

Starting point is 00:28:54 How do you... How'd they do that? Actually, I want to know that before we were... Oh, yeah, you said the director, right? Yeah. Something. I think it was Angela Barnes. Can you...

Starting point is 00:29:05 Can someone look her up on it? Did see if she did... One of the Netflix. The name sounded very familiar. Yeah. She might direct it to some of it born again. Even totally just really. Yeah, I love the specificness of it.

Starting point is 00:29:15 Because I remember the Netflix show specifically within like courtroom scenes or like interrogation scenes using a lot of like light greens and like light oranges and stuff. And this one used a lot more dark blues and shadows. She's prolific. She did episodes of mythic quest. She did episodes of, okay, she did do do do. I need to get to her in alphabetic, not alphabetical chronological. IMDB stop glitching, stop glitch

Starting point is 00:29:38 Ocean Atlanta, respect Oh, hell yeah. Love that. Episode of blind spotting as well. Nice. Scrolling back, scrolling back. Because that would have been what? 2016?

Starting point is 00:29:50 2015 to 18, right? No? That name looks so familiar. Yeah, I mean, she's on a lot of really good TV. She did a hell of a job. Yeah, I would have, I would have bet that it was like a terrible director. That too.

Starting point is 00:30:02 Well, it doesn't surprise me if Bensonmore had to have established a visual language for this show and then kind of how they talked about in the interview, like having a, like a, I don't know if it's a pitch bible, but like a specific way they shoot Matt and Fis. Yeah. And they would go back and do everything to that level of scrutiny. Yeah, and yeah, and go back and kind of

Starting point is 00:30:20 Justin Aaron, your geniuses. Yeah, attention to detail. Good job, everyone. Well, I've got a headache and I didn't want anyone to know that till now. I'll let you guys go. Bye. Bye, bye, buy. And sync out.

The Reel Rejects - DAREDEVIL: BORN AGAIN SEASON 2 EPISODE 5 REVIEW – THE NETFLIX ERA RETURNS IN FULL FORCE

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