The Reel Rejects - EDITORIAL: Marvel Phase 4 Is DIRECTIONLESS?! I Beg To Differ...

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

With Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness out, many feel like the future of the MCU, as led by Kevin Feige, lacks direction & interconnectivity with Wandavision, Loki, Spider-Man No Way Home, Eternals, Shang-Chi, & the rest of the titles comprising Marvel Phase 4. We discuss a Possible Avengers 5/Secret Wars, Kang The Conqueror, Fantastic Four's Doctor Doom, Secret Invasion, Captain Marvel, & More! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/the-reel-rejects/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and with generous cargo space it's ready for big gear and even bigger getaways the CRV trail sport hybrid learn more at honda.com slash CRV I think what they're doing right now is getting us super acquainted to understanding the rules and the definitions that way when the rules are being broken

we understand the stakes and we could follow what the hell's going on in this movie because because of the fact of how crazy all this is going to be. This is all going to be nuts, and it is all going to be connected. And I think it's already connected. They're just not making it as obvious because it's not as simple. I'm here to defend Marvel. What's going on there, Reject Nation?

Greg and John here today. What we're going to talk about today might seem pointless to some, yet I don't think it is pointless, especially when I go online. And I see this being kind of a common. complaint. For some, this may be already like an obvious answer. For others, I guess I'll try to offer up a glimmer of hope if that's what you're looking for. I don't really know. What we're talking about today is Marvel's Phase 4 has it been directionless? I am often hearing that some people are feeling about Marvel Phase 4. It makes sense to me why some people might actually

feel that way. Yet I don't actually agree with it being directionless. I think there's kind of a fascinating point that we don't know where exactly the MCU is headed. We have our ideas of where it could be going based off comics and such and a bunch of clues that have been given from the shows and movies. But I wouldn't call it directionless. So before we hop into this, if you guys can leave a like, that be very much appreciated. All right, so looking through Marvel Phase 4,

there's been a lot that has been introduced, you know, like starting with Wanda Vision, starting a lot more sorcery abilities, a lot more supernatural elements with things like Moon Knight. And then you have things that seem like they might be the big, game changers for the MCU hands down. You know, you had like Loki and the timelines breaking apart with He Who Remains at the very end of it. You had the multiverse with Spider-Man No Way Home. And then you had Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness. And I think as viewers,

what were so used to with Marvel for the Infinity Saga is things just feeling, you know, very connected in a very obvious way. Phase 1 through 3, which I find funny when you think about it because the whole thing was leading up to the fight with Thanos, getting the Infinity Stones. It's something really easy to like wrap your head around. It's really like physical, really clear through line that we're building up to a big batty by the end of it and we know who the big batty is. But what's funny to me is how Joss Whedon just threw that Thanos came in there just for fun and didn't have no intention of it like building into what it became. But that's what it is. And I feel like that's really set our expectations for the Marvel Cinematic Universe

going forward. So with this one, I can actually see why people feel like it's maybe not connecting so much because they're introducing all kinds of elements, yet the movies and shows are not really going out of their ways. Other than like Dr. Strange connecting to Wanda's story and Wanda Vision, a lot of the movies are not seemingly referencing the events of prior installments in Phase 4 and going because of this thing that happened in Phase 4. Now this is happening in our movie. You even had to have Kevin Feigy at the premiere of Dr. Strange, too, say, because of the events of Loki, what Loki and Sylvie did, that allowed the events of Spider-Man No Way Home to happen

and the events of Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness to happen. But the movies don't say that. While the movies are not maybe going out of their ways to really point and go, see, look, look. Hey, remember this guy? I think it's because the multiverse is something so vast and dense and complex. and they're bringing so much from the comics into the fray. Because what do we get with Loki? We had timelines, and then you have multiverse, and then Dr. Strange, too, introduce what?

Incursion event. And then with Eternals, you have gods. Even godlier gods. Yeah, you have these cosmic entities. Right now what I think Marvel's doing, I think they are having a through line. The common belief is that they're building up to Avengers' Secret War. I could see that happening. I could see that being like the big ultimate cataclysmic.

event. I believe the comic run, my God, I should have really done a refresher on this. I read the comics before Wanda Vision came out and my comic retention memory in detail is not the strongest, so correct me on anything I get wrong here. Because there was like Secret Wars in the 80s and then there was like 2015, but the one before the 2015 run was I believe it's a comic called Out of Time. I think it's called Out of Time. And I think that's what they're building to first, which has like a new group of Illuminati members from Earth 616. There's incursions happen. and they're trying to figure out how to save their universe while dealing with incursions in the multiverse that eventually segues in to Secret Wars.

I feel like that's where we're going first as maybe like the next Avengers 5 movie with everything that's been set up in place. What I think is cool what the MCU's been doing is they've been allowing more often than not. Sometimes you get things like a Black Widow. I don't really feel like the unique voice of the director in that movie. Base 1 through 3 had a lot of different genres. It did feel more like Marvel's directing. this movie than it is like the own director's voice and I feel like you hear like that more often Kloos Aeternals felt like Kloos Jow's movie. Sam Ramey's Multiverse Madness felt like Sam Ramey behind the

camera. The shows really feel like the director's medium way more than just Marvel committee. Granted, Marbles come in the hands are definitely all over that thing. I think what they're doing is something that'll kind of creep up on us in a way that may not be so obvious is that by the time we get that crossover event, what you're seeing is a battle for a lot of different authorities happening right now. You have, like, everything with the TVA introduced there. You have King, who's at his own multiversal war, and now King's back, and he's probably going to want to dominate Earth 616. The situations with incursions set up by Clea at the end of multiverse of madness. You have Eternals, the gods, you know?

Like, this is something where I think we are building two secret wars, but I feel like by the time we get there, that's when we're going to see how it's all connected, as opposed to telling you beforehand how it's all connected, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's a really good point. I feel like they still want to be able to surprise us, and that's only gotten harder. And, too, I feel like if you think back on the original phases of Marvel, we now have the benefit of 2020 hindsight in that that was a three-phase build-up to Thanos. So I don't expect the same kind of cataclysmic culmination out of phase four necessarily. And yeah, I mean, we have had phase four introduce a lot of gods and a lot of new characters and a lot of committees that try to oversee but not necessarily interrupt what is happening on Earth

or whatever realm is subject to the story. The pandemic probably did figure in Koi said something that's always stuck in my mind of like, I think they had a five or 10 year plan that got interrupted by the pandemic, and now they're figuring out probably a new 10 year plan. But I still feel like, yeah, it's a first phase of what's to come. Even though it's phase four, even though it's continuing out of what we know already, they're still doing a lot of setup and there's still, you know, I think a lateral motion that can happen there. And yeah, I think a lot of us are a little taken aback and I feel like this is probably due to the

that there aren't as many direct acknowledgments and direct crossovers, especially with things like Loki, and they've had to remix these films. So how it appears to me is more like, yeah, they might have had to kind of hamper some of that huge interconnectivity given the uncertainty of just the world right now. But at the same time, yeah, we have already speculation of Secret Wars coming down the pike. And I feel like they are well aware of that too. And they probably want to make us, you know, focus on a whole array of other things before getting. there. And so, yeah, while phase four doesn't necessarily feel like it has a direct end point it's trying to get to, it has had a lot of very consistent themes and character dynamics that it's been establishing thus far, at least. And I think it'll be interesting to see how Marvel changes how

its phases work and operate moving forward, because the first three phases are good to start with. They're kind of crisp and contained. You know, they're five or six movies, maybe a little bit more than that, but a culminating in some kind of Avengers thing, I feel like we could see a change to that moving forward because they also have to make us not get too used to like, okay, there will be five or six movies and then the Avengers. There will be five or six movies and the Avengers. So yeah, I'm curious to see how they emboldened the interconnectivity of the shows and films moving forward. They did stress that at, you know, the unveiling of a lot of these shows and it hasn't played out in such a connected way as they suggested. So I feel like that's something that they

want to do. I feel like they just haven't been able to do it just yet. Well, I think it is all connected we just don't see it as clearly yet you know like the shang chi post credit scene had captain marvel in it and the marvels is probably going to factor in heavily to everything we're talking about right now you know and then we got secret invasion coming up because i think there's so much information like the comics enough are difficult to keep up with that for bringing this to movies you have to kind of take this one step at a time so that way we can understand these definitions better so that way when things start running into chaos we kind of understand what chaos is, as opposed to there's a whole bunch of mumbo-jumbo words being thrown around. I don't quite

get the differences between incursions, timelines, and multiverses. I think that the first three phases were so much about saving the universe, and I think what we're building to is saving the multiverse. You know, we got King the Conqueror coming back for Ant-Man quantumania. I think that obviously a lot of people are speculating on is that King would be the big multiversal baddie, especially the way Loki set the events and considering who Kang is. But if we are really headed down this path, I am curious to know if Dr. Doom will actually be the big baddie when it comes to the multiversal threat. It would be cool if like we think we're getting Kang to be the big batty, but we're really building to is Dr. Doom, who has like a mastery on the two things

that are being introduced heavily right now in the MCU, which is magic and science fiction crap. The cosmos. Like there's so much things that Dr. Doom is the master of. And when it came to secret Wars, he was the big baddy of it. He ended up taking like bits and pieces of the multiverse, creating his own world, battle world, I think is what it's called. That's where the big crossover event happened, which got a new future for Marvel Comics moving forward after Secret Wars. There's a whole mix of things. So I think what they're doing right now is getting a super acquainted to understanding the rules and the definitions. That way, when the rules are being broken, we understand the stakes and we could follow what the hell's going on in this movie. Because

because of the fact of how crazy all this is going to be. This is all going to be nuts, and it is all going to be connected, and I think it's already connected. They're just not making it as obvious because it's not as simple. Even if they borrow from Secret Wars, I think that's all it's going to be. I think they'll really borrow from it. Civil War was very different in the comics than it was in the movies. The Infinity Saga is very different, too.

They might be borrowing, like, the main idea, but I think they're streamlining some of it to make it more digestible for the average audience member. I'm here to defend Marvel. Get that paycheck. Marvel's got to pay me my money. That's right. They need your help.

Don't hold out hope, guys. Just stop. No, no, don't. It's all going to make sense. It'll connect. You'll get your cameos. I promise. All cameos are coming.

You get your Iron Man 2 level of inter-crossover. It's all common, guys. Anyway, what do you guys think? I'll talk with you guys soon.