The Reel Rejects - FANTASTIC FOUR (2005) IS CAMPY COMIC FUN!! MOVIE REVIEW!!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this video more on them in just a bit. Thank you. And let's get started. Fantastic four comments in a three or two. What fun, what fun. Well, gang, we just reacted to, I guess it's fantastic for yes. Make sure you do all the, for stick. Not yet. Make sure you do all the YouTube stuff. Hit the subscribe button, hit that like button. Don't forget to ring the notification bell. That way you are notified whenever we drop videos such as these, we still have the other films to react to in the fantastic four universe and special thank you to the fine folks over at Prepper for editing down the highlights we appreciate even though

Starting point is 00:00:52 dr. doom probably tried to stop them they are a job as always fantastic they are fantastic however many of all four all four of them that worked on this we appreciate appreciate them so much. And if you are listening on Apple or Spotify, make sure you don't give us four but five star ratings. We would really appreciate it. And if you give us a four star rating, just know we don't appreciate it. Not at all. Only five. Our appreciation is proportional to how many stars I forgot I and gruff I Yo, yo, I believe we look this up because he's Welsh and there's like whole other rules for that I believe I believe he I looked up a thing of him saying and I believe it is yo and Griffith

Starting point is 00:01:36 Yeah, kind of like Griffith, but like you got to swallow those vowel sounds I just wanted to Check his last name was Lo and Titanic. Oh goody. I don't know how I remember. Because Andrew, that's the kind of stuff you remember. I know, I remember such preposterous things. Anyways, as we always do at the beginning of these reviews,

Starting point is 00:01:58 we like to interact with our Royal Rejects. Yeah, woo! Thank you so much. And we got some questions here. We do, we got the first one up. So we are gonna start with Maurice Gray Jr. Maurice, thank you so much for the question for being a royal reject.

Starting point is 00:02:12 We appreciate it. Junior. Okay, so fantastic four question for Andrew and John. Did you like or dislike this take on Doctor Doom? Traditionally, he's a normal man in armor who dabbles in sorcery, but here he's superhuman who got powers along with the four. Which of those versions do you think is more dangerous? You know what? Is it cool if I go first? Please, Andrew. I feel like you probably

Starting point is 00:02:37 have slightly more, uh, like comic book insight. I actually don't. I haven't read too much about Doctor Doom in the comics That's that's more of a coy take but I will tell you that I just know he's a very powerful and very methodical and one of the most revered and just like He's a very popular comic book villain I I do understand that and I know this is not this and fan for stick is not the most popular take on the character I did like Julian McMahon's performance I thought he did a great job. I do like he yeah, I do like the

Starting point is 00:03:11 How we slowly descended into the madness I appreciated that even though the film as I mentioned earlier had a bit of a frenetic pacing to it Which I get there was a lot of moving parts in the film But I think for the most part did a pretty good job of taking its time with his, even though he's got this godlike complex, which I would assume is probably similar in the comics. But either way, I did like this portrayal of the character again, not knowing what's in the comics. I, and, you know, seeing him go with them into space and having that history I thought this is a fascinating take and again, I thought

Starting point is 00:03:50 Julian McMahon did a great job having presence having a menacing side to him on on top of that and Yeah, I liked it in regards to the contrast of him being a traditional, you know Or traditionally, he's a normal man in armor who dabbles in sorcery. I really don't remember Fan Force Stick to be honest. I saw it the one time. I just remember Craig and I were laughing in the theaters a lot.

Starting point is 00:04:16 I mean, I remember there were times that we were enjoying the film, but also we laughed a lot in the theater as well. Not the kind of laugh I think the filmmakers were intending, but I don't remember that version to be honest. I remember something happened on the I don't remember but what we want and I haven't heard that film revered for its accuracy to the canon either. Okay. Well I mean either way like I don't know. I'm assuming whatever Robert Dine Jr. or the

Starting point is 00:04:43 MCU has in mind is probably going to be more like to this, but that sounds fascinating. I definitely and I definitely want to I'm actually going to start reading more comics in the near future because I've actually gotten into reading just in general a lot more recently. So that does sound fascinating. It sounds really compelling actually too. And also the fact that he doesn't have superhuman powers and again he's just using his methodical mind as well. Just makes him kind of scary as well on top of like he's not traditionally using these powers that he you know he's fighting fantastic for whoever in the MCU or the Marvel can. But I think

Starting point is 00:05:22 that does sound very fascinating to see and see something different too because again I don't remember fan for stick except The name of the title that I do remember but yeah, that does sound I'm curious to see a different take I always say like I don't mind ambition something different as long as it's satisfying and fun to watch on screen But what about you in regards to the question? Yeah I satisfying and fun to watch on screen. But what about you in regards to the question? Yeah. I liked watching Julian McMahon for sure. And I, you know, liked the presence

Starting point is 00:05:53 that he brought to the character. I certainly am not a Fantastic Four expert. I know the basic strokes. And I've heard people, you know, speak on, you know, the character in the comics versus the character in other adaptations and stuff like that. So I kind of knew to at least expect that this might not be definitive. And yeah, you know, it's like for what this movie has to do and for the character, it's weird. This movie does have a good amount of characterization in it. And there are some everybody's got an arc of some variety. And I thought that as like a contextual aspect of the story, Dr. Doom could have like it's partway there.

Starting point is 00:06:37 It's like I felt the history to some degree and it was at least interesting that yeah, he does have some type of intelligent scientific acumen to bring to the table. You know, he's obviously of a different sensibility from Reed and obviously here, you know, he's, you know, this this rich, you know, extravagant, you know, he's like the owner of a bank or whatever, right? A bit is this movie? I don't know. There's that whole thing about the bank and he's like the owner of a bank or whatever, right? A bit in this movie. I don't know. There's that whole thing about the bank and he's talking to the board of the. Oh, you probably might be right. I must have just missed.

Starting point is 00:07:11 You're probably right. I don't know. There was something to do with a bank failing here. And, you know, like, I don't know. I think this. I think it could have been more interesting to have Dr. Doom be more of like an intellectual rival to read in a way that feels like engaged as part of the point of the characterizations in the movie. Like there's some degree of that, but the way it plays here feels much

Starting point is 00:07:40 more like, oh, you know, two friends from back in the day and and one is clearly better at business and the other is clearly more of a scientist and they both have things each other needs like that stuff's interesting as he's characterized and as the powers manifest. I mean, it does sort of feel like we need just like a supervillain for them to go up against. And so like, I liked watching it and I thought, you know, yeah, like his look as he becomes more and more metal, this whole Tetsuo kind of element that's coming in shouts out tetsuo the iron man yeah like I liked the you know body horror quality of his gradual transformation and you know like they give him qualities he's vain and you know he is obviously again an entrepreneur very driven by business and what not.

Starting point is 00:08:28 I would have liked I guess I would have thought that the relationship would between him and read was more rich if it had been the kind of thing where you really felt their personal rivalry in a more sort of in a deeper way I guess or in a more sort of in a deeper way, I guess, or in a more sort of human way. Like, I don't know. It's not like there's no conflict between them. But this was just much more kind of standard villain fare there than what I understand of the comics. Like, I feel like Dr. Doom, I guess, theoretically, is the kind of villain who is like supposed to have a point some of the time. And I think who you are supposed to have a point some of the time.

Starting point is 00:09:05 And I think who you are supposed to be like, well, you know, this is maybe shrewd. This may not be the most benevolent, you know, philosophical approach, but like you can't deny the intelligence and the formidability of, you know, his various abilities. I guess in a way like I don't mind them powering him up and making him superhuman For a story like this. I think you could have very much chosen the opposite and made him Yeah more of a human who dabbles to some degree in sorcery and whose power is Again his cunning and his intelligence

Starting point is 00:09:41 You know such that it is different from Reed's intelligence and obviously Reed less presented here as cunning and more, you know, sort of like a perfectionist. So yeah, I didn't dislike the take. I was kind of aware whilst watching it that this probably isn't definitive. And given where we are in the evolution of these kinds of movies, it's the early mid 2000s. So, you know, it's like the conversion of the character away from the more dramatically interesting thing to the more like action movie appropriate thing makes sense to me, like I wasn't mad.

Starting point is 00:10:19 But yeah, just like this idea here, if they had really made the relationship between him and Reed something more of a point of conflict for the audience like damn I can kind of see how you guys you know could be friends and could elevate each other and yet you know dooms vanity and his pride you know steps in the way of that and so does read like you know read to from what I understand is not supposed to be like the most charming guy in the world. And while I don't necessarily think that that take from what I've heard here is necessarily 100 percent, you know, the comics either, I did get a certain amount of that. Like, he's a he's kind of charming, but yeah, he is also sort of like insular and awkward and doesn't know how to take the cues

Starting point is 00:11:03 from people around him as evidenced by those two storm relationships I'm like, yes the dumbest Marco we know but yeah, no, I you make a very Valid point that their conflict. I think it was it was kind of simplistic It didn't really like have resonance to it and that would have definitely been fascinating But I actually really did and I guess he could make the argument when he was emotionally manipulating Ben, which I thought was good stuff. Like he was very susceptible and easy to be manipulated because that was the whole arc of his film, not accepting himself and wanting to change, you know, back to who he was and not understanding like he's still Ben no matter what.

Starting point is 00:11:44 Yeah. And, but I actually like that emotional manipulation that we were dealing with in regards to Dr. Doom. I would have even, if he would have even been doing that too to some of the other members of the team, that could have been fun and fascinating as well, I think. Yeah, cause I feel like in the, again, I would be thrilled for you guys to come in and kind of engage the discussion in the comments. Cause can. I would be thrilled for you guys to come in and kind of, you know, engage

Starting point is 00:12:06 the discussion in the comments, because, yeah, like if Dr. Doom, because, yeah, it's like it's Marvel's first family. They are such a unit together. But obviously, there's some connective tissue between Reed and Victor, but also all of them and Victor. And yeah, for the idea that he would kind of target them all in some way would also make him appear more formidable. Like what they did here, I think is serviceable in a lot of ways.

Starting point is 00:12:27 And it makes sense again, from for where we are in terms of comic book cinema and the fact that, yeah, you're probably not having people fussing as much over like we got to get people who know these things and psychopedic encyclopedically to come in and like make them canonical. But yeah, I would have bought his super villainy and him as like their arch nemesis Yeah, if they did something like what you just suggested which is having him Yeah, like strip them all down of their confidence and their you know ability or whatever it is You know really prove that he is this mastermind and then have them

Starting point is 00:12:58 Through the force and power of their bond as a family as this found family. Sure, you know realize that their bond as a family as this found family. Sure. You know, realize that this guy, you know, kind of needs to control everything and to go solo and to, you know, he's clearly formidable enough to torment us all. But we can triumph over him if we join together. Right, right. And this has probably been talked about a million times. I've literally not watched anything.

Starting point is 00:13:20 I don't want to have anything being influenced. But I'm sure the fact that The new doom looks exactly like Tony Stark, you know having that emotional manipulation to like the fact of the world's greatest superhero Who sacrificed himself? I'm sure he's gonna use that to his advantage Oh sure, so I think that you know in itself is gonna be fascinating to see in the future. Yeah, I'm excited from that perspective I'm actually I never really thought about it until this moment to be and I'm sure like many people are like time. That's so easy to think about right away. But I really didn't put that much sock into it was just more the fact that I got rubber. Dr. Doon. But it's going to be fascinating to see like how he plays around with that. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean how that factors into everything with

Starting point is 00:14:06 You know, I'm not expecting much of any doom related stuff Overtly in the first steps movie necessarily So I'm curious to see how again a character like this will be introduced into the MCU in a less definitive environment I mean it Definitive perhaps depending on how the movie goes for like the universe at large Less so for like the fantastic four directly just really quickly and then we will move on to the next question Do you in just guesstimate? Do you see them having a mid or post credit scene with something from? Robert Downey jr. Dr.. Doom I

Starting point is 00:14:40 Maybe I don't necessarily expect they would show him outright, but maybe, you know, some kind of clue, some kind of thing where he's in a shadow or you hear him chuckle or he's. Yeah. Or he says one thing, you know, shrouded in shadow, whatever, you know, a tease. I could say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of like what they did with Thunderbolts, just having like the ship without showing them. Yeah. So so generally generally I'm you know If you really want to like, you know get critical about it. I'm mixed on this take whilst watching the movie It was for me was serviceable and I like Julian McMahon. Yeah

Starting point is 00:15:13 He did great like I actually really liked his performance Yeah, and there were things about you know The character that I enjoyed in the film and then there were other things that definitely like again for this film worked Still could uh yeah Yeah, yeah for the more like you know traditional corporate bad guy kind of take you know is fine For sure next question. We got I think is from Kevby Let me take this one take it away John. Let's do it Andrew and John f4 I still have fun feelings for this movie probably because I went to see it with my mom or simply because I found it just plain fun, which I agree this

Starting point is 00:15:49 I agree. It was this was fun And it's fun to go back to this again this era where you know we're post what spider-man at the very least Yeah, things spider-man and spider-man too Yeah, so this is ramping up as a really viable genre now, and it's just kind of neat to see the earlier stages again. But yeah, I'm glad you have those fond memories, and if you could explain why this movie didn't quite hit the mark compared to, if you had to explain why this movie didn't quite hit the mark

Starting point is 00:16:17 compared to later comic book movies, how would you put it? That's a good question. Okay, I mean, I had fun with this movie too. I don't know. I just there were just times where it didn't maybe have that epicness You know feel to it and it's not quite as epic as it Yeah, like it's weird to say to yeah, like there's it's like a tonal epic. Yeah, there's there's like Yeah, like there's it's like a tonal epic. Yeah, there's there's like Not as much of a triumph and crescendo as you maybe want there to be I like the book ending of the fact that like you get that initial Situation on the bridge that forces them all to come together

Starting point is 00:16:58 And then you kind of bookend the end of the movie with this other public situation where they're all forced to come together except now it's on account of Dr. Doom rather than just some kind of happenstance. It's weird. Yeah. Like because this movie has stuff that works stuff that feels like oh yeah this seems pretty well observed from the comic. It has other things that it's kind of just doing on its own. And then some stuff that does feel like can't be or dated. And I think that part it's it's weird. I thought thing and Johnny Storm really worked. Yeah, their interactions were great. Yeah, their interactions together really fun. Both of those actors on their own are bringing a lot to make those roles

Starting point is 00:17:39 really flavorful and colorful. And so half of your team, I think, is really firing on all cylinders. Reed, I thought was fine. Like, I like Yo and Griffith anyway, so like, I'm happy to watch him. And I think they capture at least some of what I understand is sort of Reed's, you know, knack for getting in his own way and for being so kind of caught up in the science and whatever. You know, the stuff with him and Sue was fine. And the whole like love triangle thing was fine. It was a thing I'm very used to seeing.

Starting point is 00:18:12 And from what I gather, maybe not out of step with, you know, a thing you could do based on Fantastic Four comics. But as it's presented here, it's like the villainy stuff and the romance stuff are like pretty boilerplate. And I think, you know, by comparison, it's like Ben Graham has the best arc in the movie and the most emotional story and the most and the best, I think, synthesis of all the things because he's fantastical. But you buy him and he's got pathos. And, you know, you can have some fun with him to hear in there. Johnny Storm brings the requisite sort of thrill ride

Starting point is 00:18:46 and carefree abandon and the fun of the movie. I didn't like young Griffith and Jessica Alba are appealing actors. I didn't feel like I really got to know Reid super duper well, or I didn't like form a huge association with him, even though I liked again watching his performance and I liked them all in the group setting. There was just I guess it was missing like enough of a thing to really emotionally endear me to read, which he's a character for whom I gather that it's supposed to kind of be like that.

Starting point is 00:19:21 But I think there are ways to do that in a movie where you can demonstrate that, but also really like leave a strong impression, which I don't necessarily think they did overall. I mean, like the stretching and stuff is the most dated looking effect in the movie. Still fun in concept. And I think Jessica Alba was the most, she coalesced the least for me into the unit and into the movie generally. I didn't dislike her and there were moments that I thought were good in her

Starting point is 00:19:54 performance but is weird. It's like you have half the team that is so strong and engaged and then you have Reed who's like his all right and then you have Reed, who's like, he's all right. And then you have Sue, who's all right. And and you know, their performances didn't super wow me at any point or like really grab me with anything. And then, yeah, Julian McMahon, a lot of presence. But, you know, again, a sort of boilerplate version of this villain. And the movie, too, it's weird. I found myself both appreciating and being. I don't know exactly what it was, because I was like,

Starting point is 00:20:29 I think it's neat that like so much of this movie is about them getting used to the powers and figuring out how to reverse the powers and their struggles after the radiation situation, which I gather is also different in the comics. But like them trying to figure them some selves out as doom is descending into, you know, his life is getting worse and, you know, he's becoming more and more desperate and power hungry. And, you know, you have it's weird. It's like you have their classic definitive villain and yet you're doing

Starting point is 00:21:03 this like big long origin story for both sides of them. And so like it almost feels like after this movie now the real fun can begin. Right. Or something. Yeah. I think I think in subtext what you're saying is Reed just needed a mustache and Sue needed more you know scenes where she was taking her clothes off. But yeah no I hear you. Part of it was like it did feel like they got Jessica Alba to be like we're making the hot girl get naked. Yeah. I think also too, like it wasn't very big on spectacle. And I think you, you know, when you're going to have people come back to the theater, cause there's a film that came out a year after this, which Tara and I just reacted to a few weeks back and it's up on the channels. Go

Starting point is 00:21:40 check that out. Superman returns, which, you know, there's a few action scenes in that, but that film's more of a character study of Superman and Lois. And again, I really liked it a lot more this time around. I remember liking that movie. Yeah, but I remember the first time I saw that in theaters. I don't know if I mentioned it in the review that I thought it was okay.

Starting point is 00:21:58 I didn't, you know, I wasn't like displeased by it or offended by it by any means. But it definitely had a slower pace to it. It was again it was a slow burn and it was a character study which is fine if you want to do that. But I think that's possibly why it struggled at the box office. You know Superman's biggest fight is with in that movie it's with a planet and with an end. It's a great sequence with it stopping an air you know an airplane. I think that's what it was which is fine. And in this movie you know your your action set pieces are that couple minute

Starting point is 00:22:31 fight at the end with Dr. Doom which I thought was a cool fight and then you know the the bridge fight the bridge scene where they're you know coming together I really like the bridge I like the bridge reminded me of like watching spider-man or spider-man 2 where it's like oh yeah they're like really especially these New York based ones where you're like, oh, they're really out among the people for sure for sure And I'm not saying action is you know the defining trait to making a great film or that's gonna guarantee you money Put action in them. No, of course not, but you know, you have to have spectacle you have to have action that does help a little bit and But you know, you have to have spectacle, you have to have action that does help a little bit. And I'm saying with this, and you're just asking me why I think it didn't like, you know, hit the mark quite as a bit.

Starting point is 00:23:10 I think that might have helped just a tiny bit. Maybe getting people to come back a little more. Maybe one more action set piece possibly. You know, again, also too in regards to what John is saying as well. You know, beefing up a little bit in regards to the characters with Mr. Fantastic and with Sue and even Dr. Doom. I think that also, if you do that and you have some action that, you know, is action that it develops the characters as well. Cause that's my favorite type of action. Yeah. Well, actually development action. But I think if you do those couple of things with one more action set piece, I think that

Starting point is 00:23:45 might've hit the mark. Cause again, the, that's what I meant by earlier when I said, you know, it didn't feel as epic as like a spider man to a captain America winter soldier, like just off the top of my head. And this isn't a comparison game. I'm just making a point like captain America winter soldier. I can name some sick action scenes from that film, the hand hand fight scene with Bucky, the scene with Nick fury. And there's no Captain America in that scene when he's in the car and like on that. But those are, but those are scenes in service of the plot. You know what I mean? And their cat and mouse chases too, but they are big on spectacle. Yeah. And I think like even more fantastical movies have like very standout, you know, gripping action sequences or something.

Starting point is 00:24:26 And it's like, yeah, I'm not going to shade the action because there are a lot of good stunts and there are a lot of like fun. I like the two again set pieces. And I think maybe for me, what might have been missing is like along with that. Yeah, it's like it doesn't quite reach epic proportions. And there's something about it where like I never felt like they fully coalesced as the team where you're like they found their groove and their rhythm and now they are finally triumphant. Like, oh, I see the future now. Like even the doom fight at the end felt sort of like a bit rag tag, which is like in context, I don't think is bad.

Starting point is 00:25:02 It's like I'm not necessarily holding it against it, but without that element of like, oh, they're fully formed now. Yeah. And maybe you would have gotten that like, you know, I'm not saying that nobody would get that, but I didn't really like in my just like chest feel that thing of like, oh, man, like, yes, it's all been leading to this. The team is fully assembled. And now I can't wait to see them like take on some classic villain in part two or whatever. You know, it's like I don't begrudge the origin side of things

Starting point is 00:25:27 But I feel like this was so much origin in a way that it didn't feel like it Transcended it like it feels feels like you end if you'd gone maybe like a beat further or something I don't know like it's all here But yeah, it's like it Somehow misses that real launch into the you know strabosphere and some excuse I mean it's tough like an origin story of four characters in one film That's that's a tough tough thing to do. I yeah, or five. Yeah, sorry. Sorry because you have dr. Doom, too I'm sorry. I apologize. You're absolutely correct

Starting point is 00:26:00 No, it is a lot and then like it's and I think the thing is like this. It works as much as it does. It's like this is a real fun example. If you want to, you know, yeah, like start to break apart superhero movies and how they've evolved over time like this movie, I think is an interesting case to study because there is like a good amount of stuff that's well conceived and that works. And not all of that is exactly the comics, but like it, you know, works more than you might expect.

Starting point is 00:26:26 It's not a train wreck, but there's enough stuff here where you're like, I see how this could have been better. And it's not about effects, you know, it's not about, you know, maybe a certain type of action scene could have been added to create a greater sense of triumph. But mostly it's about, again, script and story choices that you had all the ingredients for. And I think you just could have taken in a slightly more engaging direction

Starting point is 00:26:48 or a slightly more unique direction because of the fact that Fantastic Four comics are psychedelic and cosmic and, you know, sci fi and stuff like that. And I appreciated elements. It's like there's so many elements that like you can see in one light and appreciate, but then look at in a different light and go like, but if they had chosen maybe something slightly different, we could have, you know, really hit the mark with this. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So it is. Yeah. But I think your question, Kev, is like nicely put because, yeah,

Starting point is 00:27:19 it's like it doesn't quite hit the mark compared to a lot of other stuff. And it is at least for me in these moments, you know, just having finished the film, I'm sitting here going like, damn, there is undeniably a lot of good about this. But yeah, why doesn't it fully land? Yeah, because I was not again, I was terribly offended by the movie as I was watching it. And this might believe my third time seeing it.

Starting point is 00:27:40 And I'm like, fun and pleasant. And it has that tone, that vibe, that just timbre that 2000s era superhero movies have that is distinct. And it's fun and pleasant and it has that tone that vibe that just Tambor that 2000s era superhero movies have that is distinct yeah, you know they don't feel like this quite the same way anymore but Alrighty from Sorry, I forgot we're doing that from sci-fi

Starting point is 00:28:01 Extremists thank you for being a royal reject. And for the question F four, I was 10 or 11 when this came out. We need to know which one was it. Yeah. I was 10 or 11 when this came out and remember really loving it. Even now years later, I still think it's a fun movie. It is a great question. Do you think the formula for standalone hero movies could still work today or have we become so saturated with connected universes and cameos that it would be difficult? The new movie has an asterisk because obviously we know they are coming to the MCU. Sure.

Starting point is 00:28:37 I'm oh, are we I mean, I assume we're talking about any comic book films, right? Where we do. OK. I mean, I because Yeah, just because, yeah, like so few things are developed anymore to just be a one-off. I mean, I think one-offs can still work. I mean, I think the Batman is a good example of that. I love that film, and as of right now, we're treating it as an Elseworlds film, right?

Starting point is 00:29:00 To the current deep, what's the new- DCU. DCU? Yeah, nice and simple. Sorry. MCU, DCU, MCU. Thank you. Keep it very simple. Right. I mean, I think that is a great film. And if we are going to continue to treat those and else else world film, it's, it's almost like kind of a, a Pandora's box of like, what the hell is this now? Whereas everything used to be like not really connected for the most part. So it's, it's almost like rare nowadays, which is, it's a good point that he's, you know, you're making the sci-fi extremists. So I, you know, I'm glad that

Starting point is 00:29:36 we're still sticking with some here and there, but yeah, I, again, I think Batman is, or the Batman is a good example of them. I would still like to stick with it. I like films that feel very personal. You still feel and but that you don't have to rely because I think to John a lot of times we get into these which I love these connected universes do not get me wrong but there's times where I fun. Yeah of course but and when they do it right and the executions there it's it's so satisfying and gratifying as an audience 100 percent but there's also times and this is just more nitpicking from my end but there's times where like I'm watching a film like Captain America Winter Soldier which is my number one favorite

Starting point is 00:30:16 MCU film but I'm watching that and I'm like at the end I'm like didn't they call Iron Man right there I'm watching Suicide Squad I'm like why isn't Wonder Woman or like that? And that's the sometimes the nitpicky things that can arise when I'm like, because we're in a connected world right now when a world that's why they came out and said like fantastic for the new one is like in a separate, right? Right. For that very reason. Yeah. Makes that makes total sense. I haven't been following any of the news, but I'm glad you explained that to me. So no, I will not have a nitpick of that, but I know that one takes place in the sixties. Right? Yeah. It's the sixties and it's some other universe according to the director, right? You know, I'm not looking at much about it either, obviously, but, but

Starting point is 00:30:55 yeah, they did at least. Yeah. The headline was yeah. Like because people are going to ask why did they come and help out with that? Oh, see, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. Well, what do you think? I think it can absolutely still work and I miss it that. Oh, see, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. Well, what do you think? I think it can absolutely still work. And I miss it. I mean, it is an interesting time because I think probably the way the business works, people are looking for anything that can become a franchise fast. I think there is something to be said for the fact that even within a franchise, you arguably should still be able to work as a standalone film. But to what you're actually getting at, I think.

Starting point is 00:31:31 Yeah, I mean, like, I think it's just up to somebody to do it and to find the right character, whether that's creating a new character in this language of storytelling for movies in this case or, you know, adapting someone who hasn't been adapted. I'm curious. I wonder what else worlds can do for us, because it's almost like you can kind of have your cake and eat it too, because it's like, you know, if D.C. comes out under this, you know, the D.C. you comes out with a bunch of else worlds. I feel like you can enjoy the one off nature of that and what that allows you

Starting point is 00:32:05 for storytelling while also having the sort of back of your mind sensation that like, oh yeah, but this is still a part of like, you know, one, you know, bigger umbrella, even if it's not actually interacting with any of that other stuff. I would be curious to see somebody do just like a full on standalone and commit to that, whether or not it becomes a franchise. But maybe, yeah, just having it be its own franchise with no spin-offs because yeah there's so many the the machine the shared universe machine has become such a kaleidoscope now I think it absolutely could still work I think it would

Starting point is 00:32:38 probably strike people really directly if they did one and it did work because again people are so used to and we are, I think, taking for granted at this point, they're like, everything is going to become a universe or people are going to at least try to make everything a universe or part of a universe. So, like, I think at some point someone will do it again and it'll probably be a breath of fresh air. And my hope would be that superhero cinema in general, DCU Dark horse starts making their own cinematic universe whatever spawn, baby My hope is yeah, my hope is that we could do both, you know Like let's have a thriving world where some stuff is shared and some stuff is you know?

Starting point is 00:33:20 Isolated or one-offs not everything has to even be Marvel and DC But yeah, I think the saturation with connected universes and cameos presents a difficulty in terms of like the business expectations. But I think it also presents you an opportunity for people to miss that and for someone to step in and answer that missing

Starting point is 00:33:41 of, you know, this aspect of the form. Absolutely. And so wild to think about how back in the day everything was all standalone films and like getting a connected universe, like really, really getting it was like such a rare feat in itself. Getting a direct sequel was a victory. Yeah, that for sure. But like, it's it's amazing how the tables have truly turned regards. Yeah. Crazy. All right. thank you so much for the question.

Starting point is 00:34:07 We appreciate it. There we go. There we go. Helping our editors out. All right. Reject Nation. When we started our Reject Nation shop, I honestly thought that we would only sell to like a handful of people who liked our channel.

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Starting point is 00:35:31 Thank you, Jay. Yeah, a lot of you guys like are consistently here in the Q&A and I really appreciate your enthusiasm. Which Fantastic Four characters are you the most like? Let's do something fun sorry finish the question by the way Andrew I know if you knew this but Stanley was a mailman oh my god did catch that I did not notice it was nice to because the second he showed up I was like oh that's right of course we'll have a Stanley cameo how lovely game two things one we should just name a movie and you have to get

Starting point is 00:36:04 and say what the Stanley what cameo was Oh god, that would be a good one. I would fail Now you would a lot of them, but it would be fun. Give yourself a give yourself 14% credit you would not all right. All right, 12% I know he's Hugh Hefner and iron. Yeah. Hey, there you go How about this instead of we saying who we think we are fantastic for how about we say who we think the other person is? I'm gonna go easily Johnny storm. That's what I was gonna say about you. You're Johnny storms All right, we're both Johnny storm. This guy is mr. Fantastic. He's the smart I'm telling you whenever we have a technical issue or something is a problem. He

Starting point is 00:36:43 Figures it out. he is the most intelligent being I'm seriously he really I've been grim and you're mr. fantastic yes very intelligent and you're very flexible and you're very attentive be honest you can tell people I'm going to your soup storm I wish I was that good looking. Good God. Are you know yourself? No, I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess if I was choosing for me, I would say like a combination of Ben Grim and and the parts of Mr. Fantastic, where he's like a bit oblivious to cues and like gets in his own way.

Starting point is 00:37:21 And I'm not a brilliant mind, but I can certainly kind of like lose forest for trees sometimes. I would, yeah, I would say the not the smartness of the smartness, not the intelligent side of Mr. Reed Richards, but I would say the awkward side, not seeing things right in front of him. I would say that that portion of Reed Richards. You know what I mean having to be told things sure that are so obvious I Would say that I would identify as myself. I wish I was as cool though as John Johnny Absolutely, oh

Starting point is 00:37:59 Wait did you say you wish you were as cool as me both both I didn't mean to yes and that You are absolutely as cool as me? Both both. I didn't mean to yes and that you are absolutely as cool as me. Never, never. Let's see. Who else do we got in the queue? And I think there was one more, right? I think I saw. Did we answer that one? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:38:17 I don't know exactly which group this is set as. This is aimed at as a group. Are you more of a post? Because, you know, the the post there are multiple movies shooting related to this post so Tim Pierce Asks as a group are you more fantastic for or Adams family like as a group like the reject? We'll call it that I I think we're of Magnificent 7. No, that's right. You said that up top. Yeah I think we're Magnificent Seven now. That's right. You said that up top. Yeah. Are we more fantastic or probably more fantastic for as much as I would love to be the I mean

Starting point is 00:38:51 but the thing is we don't like Johnny and the thing. Then they argue it a lot even though it was for fun banter like I feel like we don't really like the whole group like honestly we don't really argue at all. I honestly. We don't really argue at all Um I mean there there could be times where you know there have to be you know people are trying to get on the same page There are discussions or like oh we got to debate something or other to figure out such and such a thing This car did you roll up and throw I was gonna say I guess Like how could we be an Adams family? I'm Lurch I'll be I guess I have to be cousin it by default. Uh.

Starting point is 00:39:30 Ew, that's not bad, Andrew. It's not bad at all. I've been working on it for, since 1991. Not bad. I still know who the composer of that film is, Mark Shaman, who also did one of my favorite baseball movies that was directed by Billy Crystal in 2001. The Addams Family? 61 movies that was directed by Billy Crystal 2001 the Adams family 61 that was made in 2001 that was mark Adams family movie score mark Shaman mark Shaman

Starting point is 00:39:50 That's funny So that so a film that everybody is that I think people just imagine is directed by Tim Burton and has Danny Elfman music has Neither of those things Barry Sonnenfeld that's funny. I never actually that makes sense, but I've never actually thought about Tim Burton, which I should be in that way Yeah, it's Barry Barry Sonnenfeld. That's funny. I never actually that makes sense. I've never actually thought about Tim Burton, which I should be in now. And yeah, it's Barry Barry Sonnenfeld, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, it makes a cameo appearance in both that in the train and in the in values as the parent of David. What's his crumbles? David Krumholz. Yeah, he's his parent. All right. Did we I thought we had one more, but maybe we don't. Are you sure we don't have four more? We have four.

Starting point is 00:40:27 We got Sci-Fi Extremists. We got Kev B. We got Jay Rushton. While you're doing that, I'm going to get some of the stuff up and ready for us. Tim Pierce. Fantastic four question from Maurice Gray. We started off with that. Hell yeah. Hell. Yeah

Starting point is 00:40:51 Okay, I think we are a set Andrew on patron questions. Okay, so final thoughts um Goodness, I was really bummed out about Ben Grimm's first wife I didn't I guess I don't know if that again how much of the origin that is and I get that you need The conflict to really drive home how much this is wrecking his life, especially with the way they played that. And for the fact that Lori Holden is a really good actor, I think, and is somebody like I felt like it's cool for her to get the check, obviously. But I thought she was a little wasted in this. And I was like really bummed that there was just like no attempt from her to talk to him whatsoever. She just

Starting point is 00:41:25 showed up and the first time she's frightened and in that first time outside on the street you're like okay fine I'll benefit the doubt she's terrified how does she know this guy's actually been but when she shows up in the bridge scene and they're they're like yes you know he created something of a mess in the way he handled that. But also the whole family just saved the day essentially. And she shows up and she's just like, no, she's got to really. Yeah, it was in the ring. I was just like, this is such a weird moment that doesn't. I could see a different way to the same result

Starting point is 00:42:00 that feels way less like on the nose and silly. And, you know, yeah, like in Sue Storm, like with the powers, like that's an example of something where I was like, yes, on the nose when she starts to go invisible, when she starts to describe the feeling of invisibility. But I was like, thematically, I like this. And yeah, like this had some fun production values. You can see the seams where it wasn't, you know, quite up to obviously the expectations we have now for CG effects and stuff like that. Decent take on the story.

Starting point is 00:42:30 Definitely room for improvement. But this was like fun enough and had enough lovely physical elements, like great sound designs and fun shots of an appealing cast. I wouldn't say the chemistry of the Fantastic Four as a complete unit clicks entirely. Two out of four. Yeah, it's like two out of four, like all cylinders firing. You know, thing and Johnny Storm are great.

Starting point is 00:42:54 Sue and Reed are our varying degrees throughout the movie. I didn't I didn't really fall in love with them together. I didn't think they had like tremendous shared chemistry together. But I do think that Johnny and thing elevate them and help them to be more endearing than they could have been. Yeah. Doom fun performance could have been more interesting. Yeah, like this is a really fun kind of chronicle. I think if you look at it from the perspective of like, yeah, these are,

Starting point is 00:43:23 you know, the some of like yeah, these are you know the some of the earlier by our standards now attempts at really kind of flushing out this genre now that we'd had like Spider-Man and spider-man to really lay down a new definition of how we can do this and Yeah, you feel some of that energy and it makes me excited to check out the next one because hopefully they can improve on what we Got here. Yeah No, I still enjoyed the film. It was it was fun I'd say the best way to describe this film Easton origin. Yeah, and I did like, you know the way was executed in regards to the arc and the tragic nature of Ben Grimm I thought that was done very well of Michael Chickless's performance and I like the character

Starting point is 00:44:04 I like the look of the makeup no the practical look definitely looked fine and it would it's cool to watch a movie that does have like clearly a lot of work going into both the physical and digital effects and Yeah, some of that stuff is dated so that stuff looks really good I think the human torch stuff looks pretty good actually to personally human torches is probably their best like oh that's definitely got to be CG Elements I would say like that looks pretty dang good even still and you know the Mr. Fantastic stretching ability you're kind of like I get it I get why this there was a couple times when he was doing like some face stuff that looked really good and then it would like transition really nicely in the same shot. I thought that looked actually okay. Yeah. So yeah. No, I do agree with you. The chemistry

Starting point is 00:44:50 between Jessica Alba and I'm not going to attempt to say his name but read a little bit left to be desired. But which is a very focal point obviously to the fantastic four. But I do feel like you was very much elevated by the interactions between Johnny and by Ben. It was so much fun. And also, too, like, it was volatile as well. And it was interesting to watch, like, you know, it... Because at the same point, you really feel bad for Ben, but it's also fun to watch because Chris Evans' energy is really... Yeah. It's emblematic and it's present at the same time so they have like a lot of

Starting point is 00:45:29 fun odd couple yeah you get why yeah Ben's getting mad at Johnny but Johnny's funny so like yeah yeah yeah you can feel and enjoy them both in different ways yeah I mean that work really well yeah and I like you again like you as well I really like Julie McBann's performance again I don't know the character as much as I should other than The little snippets I do know and I I got to rewatch the show Earth's Mightiest Heroes Which I think is one of the greatest animated shows ever I remember the character being in that a little bit and loving him in that

Starting point is 00:46:01 So she loves mightiest here I'm telling you you and koi need to watch that on this channel. Get in the comments and let them know how the door that yes. But yeah, I mean, again, I like seeing that that descent into madness. I think that was well done, whether he had super or superpowers or not. And it did feel a little bit like Norman Osborne in terms of the company companies being taken from me and stuff like that. Very yeah, just kind of classic familiar set up. Which find it, you know, I mean, I could have done it. It is just it felt I guess what I'm trying to say is it felt a little formulaic.

Starting point is 00:46:37 Total. No, yeah, that's that's what I mean by boilerplate is like it's it's a pretty familiar villain story. boilerplate is like it's it's a pretty familiar villain story and it seems like from the comics there probably could have been potential to do something more interesting and more specific for sure but I think Julian McManus was such a great actor and his performances is great that it didn't bother me as much as it normally would have to see that kind of trope. Great voice too. Oh he really does and I like the way he changes it to when he's in the mask. Yeah, Marco. It's actually very sinister, too.

Starting point is 00:47:10 And again, I do. And I do like that godlike complex that he that he has, that he's above everyone else. So, yeah, there's some of that character in there. Yeah, for sure. So really quickly. 100 percent rotten tomatoes, Andrew, before you even look it up. Yeah, I told you they said stop making superior movies Because we've done it. What do you actually think? Just just do critics first critics

Starting point is 00:47:35 46% 27% 27 audience 55 45 okay, I was the least closer with the audience yeah I can see it I can see it it it's fun and charming bub in context now but especially if we were watching it with none of the you know past several years in mind it might read different and the really quick the critic consent and critics consensus was marred by goofy attempts at wit, so far acting and bland storytelling. Fantastic Four is a mediocre attempt to bring Marvel's oldest hero team to the big screen. I could get down with that. I

Starting point is 00:48:14 mean, yes, like a lot of the plot beats are not very unique. And and I mean, yeah, the acting varies. I think you andith's performance as Reed is OK is decent. And I think Jessica Alba could have been better. I hate to say that. Like, I hate to, you know. But she was definitely the character who, like, sometimes I was like, OK, yeah, buy it. And other times I was like, I don't think, yeah, this is not the most flattering take. Yeah, I mean, I think she looked great, but it looks great the whole time

Starting point is 00:48:48 Yeah, yeah, what uh, do you want to guess budget or do you want to just go for box office only budget in? 2005 for this God a hundred hundred million dollars Hey Got it. I'm gonna say we like, we're, Spider-Man 3, I remember being like hugely expensive and it being like one of the early times I would have been aware of that. So I feel like this would have been more like standard budget for this kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:49:15 You got it on the mark. And then worldwide. Box office? Box office worldwide. 350 million. 400, wait, 350 million. 3, 350 million, 450 million. Hey, 333. You were on it today. You were on it. Just really quickly. I'm just going to do a couple like just do well enough to get that sequel.

Starting point is 00:49:35 I'm like, Stanley has said that Michael chick list is thing is his favorite performance in any Marvel film ever. I don't know how up to date that was. Sure. Terms of right before Stan passed. But that's what it says at the top of the trivia. I would I would absolutely. That was our top praise thing of this film was Michael Chickless's performance and the character he leapt off the screen because he's got like Chris Evans as Human Torch. Obviously very fun doing his thing killing it Chris Evans he's really good at that character and it's before he played it a bunch more times

Starting point is 00:50:09 but he's doing his thing where his like thing chickless is acting through all of that like he is hands down the best like all-around performance of the movie for sure for most of the shoot, Michael Chiklis was terribly uncomfortable in the hot thing suit. The final street battle, however, was filmed in Vancouver in December, leaving Chiklis as the only comfortable one of the four. The rest were in skin-tight blue uniforms.

Starting point is 00:50:39 Let's go. That is justice for Chiklis. Seriously. Vancouver is not very warm that time of year. Oh, no. As part of this, as part of his costume for the thing, Michael Chickless wore prosthetic teeth. He did mention that.

Starting point is 00:50:54 Yeah, I was going to say, teeth look cool. Yeah, to prepare himself to speak with the prosthesis, Chickless wore them when reading to his children. Oh, that's cute. Okay. Let's just do 11 more now four more four more Jessica Alba had a kidney infection during the filming and nearly fainted when she was with Julian McMahon in the space station scene Julian calm Jessica down as he was doing a doctor evil and first impression and choking around Jessica down as he was doing a Dr. Evil impression

Starting point is 00:51:25 and choking around. Oh, that's cute. That's nice of him. That's very sweet. Aw, RIP. You got very dear facts on this movie. I would just do one more. At around the 48 minute mark, while being examined.

Starting point is 00:51:39 Four, eight, four, is two fours equals an eight? So much four, Andrew. You got it. At around the 48 minute mark while being examined at by read Ben mentions that he used to smoke in the comics the thing used to smoke cigars up until the early 90s when Marvel's new editor-in-chief Joe Casada instituted an anti smoking policy for all the company's characters banning them from being shown smoking on panel. Wow, okay. Makes sense too, because there have been a number of,

Starting point is 00:52:11 I wonder where this movie falls in relation to like, the renewed, yeah, crusade against on-screen smoking. I remember when they were like, we're gonna add smoking to the box when they tell you what the thing is rated, whatever it's rated for. They're like, this is BG 13 for thematic elements, some violence and smoking. I remember that. I remember that.

Starting point is 00:52:32 Thank you for smoking. I love that movie. Oh, and last one, Michael Chickless was offered the role of the thing after Jennifer Gardner suggested him for it. Look at that. Elektra coming through. Let's go. I guess she had, that makes sense. She has pull. She just did Daredevil. She's like that. Elektra coming through. Let's go. I guess she had that makes

Starting point is 00:52:45 sense. She has pull. She just did daredevil. She's like hey hire this guy. Say am I missing a connective thing that they worked on together. Is that that I don't know. She on was he on alias was she on the shield. Oh not sure. Either way. Let us know what the connective tissue between Jennifer Gardner and Michael chicklis's want to know anyways guys if you have stayed with us through the entire portion of the reaction and the review we appreciate you guys are amazing we will be doing fantastic for I believe it is called rise of the silver surfer right you got yes fantastic for two fantastic for more. Yes. Anyways, thank you again so much. We appreciate it. We will see you on the next one. Take care.

Starting point is 00:53:30 He says the stretchy arm.

The Reel Rejects - FANTASTIC FOUR (2005) IS CAMPY COMIC FUN!! MOVIE REVIEW!!

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