The Reel Rejects - Hollywood’s Secret Director Behind Your Favorite Superhero & New Horror Show

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Mortal Kombat, Marvel, Arrowverse, Netflix, & Peacock... The Director Who's Work You Definitely Know But Didn't Realize It Was Him - Kevin Tancharoen - Greg Alba sits down with director Kevin to discuss his incredible journey through Hollywood, from directing superhero hits like The Flash and Arrow to diving into horror with his upcoming Peacock series Teacup, produced by the one and only James Wan. Kevin shares insights on bringing horror elements into superhero stories, working with Britney Spears, the thrill of working with iconic characters, and the challenges of building stories that resonate with fans. The conversation touches on a wide range of movies and shows that have inspired Kevin throughout his career. He talks about The Brothers Sun on Netflix, his work on iconic superhero series like The Flash and Arrow, and Teacup, the chilling new horror series on Peacock produced by James Wan. We delve into the excitement surrounding The Batman Spin-Off with the potential introduction of Clayface, and explore Kevin’s contributions to shows like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Mortal Kombat Legacy, Supergirl, and Iron Fist. Kevin reminisces about action-packed series like Prison Break and DC's Legends of Tomorrow, as well as the darker tones of Inhumans, Titans, and Warrior. Other projects include The Book of Boba Fett and horror classics that influenced him, such as Child’s Play, The Exorcist, and American Werewolf in London. He shares early career influences from The Heroic Trio, Terminator 2, and From Dusk Till Dawn, along with horror staples like The Crow, Scream, Species, and Blair Witch Project. Additionally, Kevin reflects on movies he’d love to reboot like Aliens and Event Horizon, discusses the impact of Resident Evil, and gives nostalgic nods to shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Batman the Animated Series, and Ninja Turtles (1990), which he grew up with and still holds dear. Whether you're a fan of superhero action, chilling horror, or just love a good behind-the-scenes look at the industry, this episode is packed with revelations, industry insights, and fun stories! Become A Super Sexy Reject For Full-Length T.V. & Movie Reactions!  https://www.patreon.com/thereelrejects Follow Us On Socials: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  https://www.tiktok.com/@thereelrejects?lang=en Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Music Used In Manscaped Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER: https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER: https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Reject Nation. I just wanted to hop in here real quick and say thank you to all of you who watched our very first episode of Diary of a Real Reject. That's right. I've already rebranded it because it just sounds better. And a top comment really convinced me I should have gone with my original title. Might as well rebrand this early on. But seriously, thank you to all who watched our first episode to pass 80K on the very first episode to me is an amazing. amazing debut. So thank you all very much. And thank you to all who clicked on this video, because this interview, this sit-down discussion with Kevin Tancheroan, is a conversation I've wanted to have for a few years now. I've been friends with Kevin for quite a while, but there's so much

about his career that I've never actually talked with him about, despite the amount of time I've actually spent with him. Have it documented on camera to me is really cool. One of the few things that I have talked with him about off-camera that we don't really go into during this interview, which I probably should have now thinking about in hindsight, because even though I've talked about it with him. It would have been good for the audience. I'm still learning. I already rebranded the title. What a lot of you guys want to know is he conceived, he created the short film Mortal Kombat Rebirth, which spawned into this live action Mortal Kombat series, which really played a massive influence in the Mortal Kombat medium. A lot of people really believe that

if it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have the live action films that we have today. So not just only revitalize Mortal Kombat and live action, it also revitalized Mortal Kombat as a brand. So it's one of those filmmakers that I really do think deserves a lot more credit. And we dive into so, much in this interview. This video chapters, if you guys want to hop around or just listen to it from beginning to end, the preferred way. Regardless, leave a like, enjoy. And thank you again to multi-house are producing partners on this. And thanks again to the preserve for letting us shoot there. The largest urban jungle in Los Angeles, home with over 6,500 plants and trees. Beautiful place. Thank you guys. Enjoy. I was thinking about this. Yeah. I was telling your wife this,

because we're friends due to your wife's been one of my best friends since I was like 12 or something like that. Even though you've known her way longer than I have, surprisingly. I was like I think I've maybe spent like an hour in total alone with Kevin in the entire time. Is that true? I think I can count it. One time we were going over some random story together that I won't go. I won't say just out of protection. And then the other one was we were on the phone for a little bit together for like 20 minutes going over notes of something. Yeah. We rode in the car to set for something. I rode with you at like five in the morning. Oh yeah. For brother's son. For brother's son. I can say that now. Yeah. Over there. And I'm pretty sure.

that's the most alone time that we've had to get it's always been in a group yeah it's always been in a group or i'm there with you and ashley the entire time so this is the first time i'm like hey i get to be alone with kevin and see if we just get along i'm like i'm sure we just get along we're trying to get along every time we hang out with each other of course of course and i know everyone pronounces your last name wrong what is the pro and to this day i forget how to pronounce you guys last name it's just tantcherowan tantcharoman i thought that's what it was but yeah it's actually i mean listen The Thai pronunciation is different, and I don't even really truly know how to say it properly. But as far as the way people just say it here in the States, it's Tancheroan, and if you, it's super long.

But if you read it, it actually is like phonetically spelled out. Oh. So it's a lot of people get like Tantorone. That's how I used to say it. Yeah, people used to call me tarantula in high school. Is that triggering? No, not at all. I actually, I mean, it's not so bad to have a nickname called Tarantula.

That's actually not so bad. I got, are you related to Jessica? That was my whole life. And you're like, no. No. No. I wish. I wish I was related because she's hot.

That'd be cool. Someone's so hot. Guys, if you don't know Kevin's body of work, I just have his IMDB pulled up because I cannot remember all this shit. There is just so much here. And I was telling Kevin beforehand, I was like, I'm known you for several years and I haven't actually dived into your filmography. That's good.

Until like, yet last night, I was like, I should probably prepare a little bit of information and that was like I had no idea you worked on this much stuff so going through i mean going through the legacy of everything mortal combat legacy you did mortal combat rebirth that's short film but then you've also directed episodes of supergirl iron fist prison break dc's legends of tomorrow in humans arrow the flash several episodes including the first episode of crisis on infinite earths right that's right titans warrior uh agents of shield a lot of episodes of Agents of Shield. The book of Boba Fett. I remember people actually really liking the episode you did a book of Boba Fett, specifying that for a reason. And brother's son, of course,

you're one of two main directors for that, right? Yes. And then now the new series for Peacock, a horror series produced by James Wan called Teacup. That's right, October 10th. October 10th. And I will watch this one. I hope so. I saw a good amount of brothers. There you go. You saw that. I think that's all out of everything you just named. That's probably the only thing you've seen. No, I've seen him. I've seen him. Oh, you saw BobaFed.

I saw a camera point in I mean when we saw BobaFet. John's here. John saw all of Agents of Shield. He's seen your work. Oh, that's right. Okay. And it is fun because I remember, like, I saw all the flash,

I've seen all those DC shows. And sometimes I would see your name pop. I'd be like, oh, I know that guy. Yeah, the whole Vancouver universe that they created over there. It was a, I mean, that whole situation was incredible that they were able to mount something on that scale,

to create like a DC CW universe that was actually a lot of fun and it was good. It felt like something I would have been obsessed with when I, it was around like, you know, 13 to 15 or because of all the fun. It felt like X-Men, the animated series, but live action. Yeah. So it was just a blast to work on. They're hard to work on, though, because, you know, superhero costumes don't look good

during the daytime. So it just looks like people cosplay in leather jackets. So we have to wait for night and you shoot all night in Vancouver and you just kind of get used to it. but it does look better at night. Well, you had the episode, if I'm not mistaken, that first episode of Crisis on Infinite Earth was the one when they switch, right?

Barry and Oliver Switch. I had the freaky Friday, and it was great. Like, you know, Stephen Amel, so it's really fun, but he's always playing this brooding, angry version of Arrow, so to have him get more into his, like, comedy chops and put on the red flash suit, it was hilarious. And he was completely game for it. Do you feel the pressure when it comes to something like that?

Because that was an event TV series. I remember I wasn't even really into the DC shows just yet, but when that trailer came out, everyone was talking about they're actually doing Christ on Infinite Earth. It was a four-part event. I remember that being a huge deal. And you're helming the first episode of that. Do you feel the pressure of that when you're making it?

I think, you know, I always feel a bit of the pressure. But when it came to a lot of those shows, I was already such a fanboy just growing up in general with all these types of characters. So I was way more excited than, most to shoot something like that just because it was everything that I grew up loving. But yes, there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of personalities to deal with.

It's a lot of work. And the cast is super large. And they're exhausted because they work them to death on those shows. You know, if they're not doing their own series, they have to come and do a crossover here and then go right back to set on something else. But so they're troopers. And it's really hard. And you just have to try your best to facilitate all that.

and also make it as epic as you can. Would you hang out with any of them? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, a lot of them, I see Katie Lots every now and then. Grant was awesome. Stephen was great. Melissa was awesome on Supergirl 2, and so was Callista. I mean, everyone was really nice.

We all get tired at, like, 4 a.m. at a certain point, and I'm not the one wearing a really tight, uncomfortable suit. So you've got to forgive everyone if they get a little, like, I don't know, a little anxious and angry, because I would be too. Yeah. Yeah. It's so weird here. I've talked about so many things over the years.

And I'm like, I'm actually diving into your work that you've done. I'm like, I feel like I should just ask all these questions in our private time. I also forget how long it takes to put those superhero suits on. Like, I have been always saying there should just be a short film about the time like Batman or Superman or. Well, not Superman. He's too fast. But he gets the call. Yeah.

And then has to go and save the person. So every actor I hear about that talks about putting on, that's always the biggest complaint from every actor. Not comfortable. They talk about it being a very uncomfortable experience. And you find that to be very true when you're working on these things. Yeah, because it's not, it's like, it's not just two pieces. It's a whole thing. And it's pretty tight.

If you want to go to the bathroom, it's not easy. So the short film would basically be like, I got the call. he's putting on the suit by the time he's done with the suit that person's dead it just takes forever he shows up and it's just over so these are the original films that you want to be all the network TV you're like I got a pitch I got a pitch for you I got one I'm working on right now it's an art piece about how complicated it is to put on a superhero suit it's time consuming you talked a lot about in interviews of being am I say in a lot of interviews. I mean, I saw two last night.

And you were talking about your influences growing up. And I was like, oh, it'll be interesting to talk about that. And the question I like to ask people when we start these, which is the question I did not ask you when we started this, is who was your celebrity crush growing up? Was it a actor or was it a character? Can you say who it is? Act? My, my, Buffy. It was Buffy the vampire slayer, really. Yeah, I mean, I grew up to that kind of golden era of that WB, you know, the time where it was just about sexy people doing things, you know.

What was it like they, what was the lineup? It was like Buffy, it was Angel and Dawson's Creek and all. So I think between Katie Holmes and Sarah Michelle Geller, that was, those were my childhood crushes. That's so funny because you married a, a blonde girl. That's right. A rather tough, honest blonde girl. Yeah, she's super tough.

Yeah, she's the toughest girl you love her to me. I mean, no, she's honest, though. She's a very honest person. And to me, there's a little, there's a strength in that. Oh, 100%. That she's the best. What was it about like Sarah Michelle Geller as Buffy that you were particularly drawn? Was it just the physicality?

Was it the fact that she was a fighter? I thought it was the character was fun. And she was in a rough around the edges for that time period, I guess. And everyone's kind of, she was a superhero in her own way. And this first time, I think I really saw that on television. Like, I can't name something before that I can say that was holding their own. in that kind of way at that age. So that was something that I, and I also just love genre stuff.

So it was kind of a mix of all of that. I got a chance to work with Eliza Dushku, who was fantastic also. And I tried to talk to her about Buffy. And, you know, I have some family members that are part of the Whedon clan. So I tried to talk about it too. But that was a huge show for me growing up. You feel, the way you talk about it, it sounds like it actually influenced you in some way. It did.

I mean, because of the action and, mix of narrative. It was just an extension of things that I think I grew up loving naturally. And it was genre. Yeah. And for my age at the time, the teenager part of it appealed to me. It was like relatable, even though, you know, none of us are slaying vampires after high school. But to its wish fulfillment, I think at the end of the day, it was just like pure wish fulfillment. Yes. Actually, you're saying Buffy sounds very apt from stuff we've talked about so many times because you mean you've worked on a lot of action stuff but whenever we talk about anything it's horror yeah yeah yeah primarily talk about horror films together and

Buffy what I've only seen the first Olivia my wife she showed me the first like four seasons I've only gone there oh doesn't she love Buffy loves Buffy yeah I never watched Angel but I heard good things about that too yeah yeah don't talk slander I've heard good things about angels yeah I've heard great thing angel's good yeah I know but you Yeah, Buffy is like an action horror show. She is, yeah. And it seems like for you, whenever we talk, so I'm excited to see T-Cup because of the fact that it is, even when looking at the filmography, I can't really find anything that's like directly so horror as C-cup is. No, that was, this is the first time that's specifically more horror-driven.

It's, you know, it's also a mystery and it's a thriller. And I think this genre is something I've always wanted to do. Just when I was younger, I actually wanted to be Stan Winston. So my way into loving film was via horror. So I used to just... What was the horror films that influenced that you saw the line of? I mean, I think it's pretty cliche to say, but American War Wolf in London

then led me to the Howling and then legend and then obviously the first Terminator. So they had pumpkinhead. So there were a lot of creature features, but a lot of makeup prosthetic work that I fell in love with. And that was my career path that I wanted for myself because when I was young enough, I was lucky to go and visit the companies that designed the aliens for the up until Alien Resurrection, I believe.

And Stan Winston's studio. And it just kind of blew my mind. I mean, as a kid, I have so many action figures. So what's better than just a giant one? And I have to give a lot of props to Child's Play, too. Yeah. That gave me a lot of info as well. It's funny.

When you said it sounds like a cliche answer, you said the one thing that I think everyone would say. You didn't say the one thing that I think everyone would act. What is it? The thing. Well, the, yes. Now, I mean, if you compare the practical effects on that one to the, you know, they did a sequel that was primarily all computer generated, I think the first one holds up better. And I'm sad to hear that, like, even in the one with Mary Elizabeth Weinstead, they built

all of them. Those were, they did they did, but then they put CG over them, which was, I would love to see the cut where it was just the practice. practical, the practical effects because they were very well done. If you can watch it like you, watch it on YouTube now, yeah. How old were you when you saw like American War Wolf in London? I was young. So my parents, it's just a different generation.

Like back then, I was allowed to watch kind of anything because I knew. Really? It wasn't real. Like an Asian household? Yeah, I know. I know. Like I watched The Exorcist when I was like five. Really?

And maybe it scarred me. Were your parents religious? No. And they did. Oh, okay. No. All right. So it was just a fun thing to watch together.

I remember seeing Dust Till Dawn in the theater with my mom. Wow, really? Yeah. It got very weird when they got to the titty twister, you know. But it was, that's another one that inspired me too, though, because of, well, Tarantino and Rodriguez were kind of like my teenage kind of inspirations. That lines up. Yeah.

That lines up. For anyone who's into film around our age, you're like, Tarantino Rodriguez, yeah. Yeah. I remember I had a cool enough teacher in sixth grade where everyone was doing like an autobiography on somebody. A lot of people picked historical figures, kind of low-hanging fruit, and I just straight up asked my teacher if I can do it on Tarantino, and she allowed me to. I doubt you'd be allowed to do that in 2024 because I had to give it like an oral presentation about his filmography. But she was cool. She was a movie lover, and she taught us similes and metaphors and all that stuff via star.

wars oh cool so she was great she was instrumental to a lot of a lot of things that her name was mrs. Russell and she was fantastic did you start off your essay with let me tell you what like a virgin's about at that time like it was what was that it was it was reservoir dogs yeah it pulp fiction um those were the two that i've mainly made made the report about and with rodriguez it was no once upon a time in mexico and desperado and so it was It's great. You know, it's actually, it's funny to hear that you weren't, because I wasn't censored either really growing up. Yeah. Especially when it came to violence, I really wasn't censored. Like my, the movies I grew up watching. The ones I watched like religiously were the crow and scream. Yeah. Violent. They were like hard are violence. Of course, it's sometimes when it came to like things that were a little too sexual, they would like half heartedly. I saw species in the theaters of my dad when I was like six years. Yeah. I mean, it is so interesting that like violence is fine. But when it comes to that, it gets a little bit. A little bit. A little. The thing all of us will experience. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, species was like the most, like, erotic horror creature feature, you know, that was a mainstream. Yeah. It was I saw that. It was great. It was things like one of Michelle Williams's first standout roles. That's right. She plays young Natasha Hensridge at the beginning of it. And then she, like, crawls into the train bathroom and becomes like this weird cocoon.

It was, uh, I love that movie. I have a lot of fond memories with that movie. Yeah, as you should. Yeah. The reproductive alien movie. another eight but that's another HR Geiger inspiration yeah that makes sense yeah the eroticism yeah yeah exactly exactly yeah so you know I think they were like oh it works for alien so let's try it on this one and it works it really was inspired by all the HR Geiger stuff did you have a like a movie that you would watch

with your family a lot growing up because I don't know your parents that um it was never like one thing that we watched a lot we just kind of watched a lot of movies you know obviously our blockbuster Hollywood video nights were epic and I looked forward to those but I also consumed television every day like just because I wanted to and Saturday I mean you know I I mourn the loss of Saturday morning cartoons I wish that was still a thing because the lineup on Fox was great it was so good and then the golden era of like Nickelodeon animation which was more adult if you look at it now like Renan Stimpy and hey Arnold or Rocco's modern life like those are those are really cool cartoons that are not pandering to children.

Oh, yeah, that's very true. So I grew up in all that's Don Bluth. You know, you don't really see a Don Blute-style storytelling necessarily in children's animation anymore because it's a bit scarring. I mean, that scene with the mother in a land before time was epically sad. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, epically sad. But I'm glad that that was available to me when I was younger because it clearly inspired me on my career path. That's amazing.

Yeah. That's cool how non-war. restrictive they actually were. Yeah. So they are they like cinnophiles too? Yeah, they love movies. And I think that was a big reason why I even got into this is that we were all very enamored by movies, but specifically I fell in love with the magic of how to make them. Like so I would Ninja Turtles, the 1990 Ninja Turtles, this was I think my first blush into seeing like a behind the scenes of something. And then Terminator 2 Judgment Day also had a VHS behind the scenes. They had a lot.

Yeah, and Thriller had a behind the scene. So I was starting to see, oh, that's how they did this with the bladders here and on the werewolf face or with Ninja Turtles. It was practical mask with a puppet, Jim Henson's puppetry. And I said, this is fantastic. So I was obsessed with Ninja Turtles. So the 1990 movie holds a very special place to me. I liked the second one too.

But that first one, I'm shocked they got away with making it because it is not a kid's movie. It's dark. It's dark. Yeah. I feel like at the time. the people who greenlit that movie didn't really understand

what was going on so they just let the director and their team do whatever they want it because it was a hard-boiled crime drama about kid gangsters and torture torturing a giant rat gangs and yeah it was

and then I think Tatsu even kills one of the kids as an example and a lot of people don't remember Sam Rockwell offering cigarettes that was Sam Rockwell I remember that scene

yeah he's like menthol's yeah that was Sam Rocco? I don't remember that. I don't remember that being Sam Rocko. Yeah, it was like one of the He's been typecast this whole time. Yeah, I remember Ninja Turtles. All of that. I mean, the whole thing was about teenage crime and then the turtle being teenagers themselves and messy. So I hope that when they do like my favorite iteration of turtles that have come out recently was mutant mayhem. I loved it. And I actually went to elementary school with Benji Samin. So that he who wrote it, He's, he's great.

I just, he recently just did rebuild the galaxy and it's so good, you know, it's a Lego movie for Star Wars, and it's great. And his partner, Dan Hernandez, is awesome. So that would have been my favorite iteration because they brought a lot of the edge back. They felt like real teenagers too. Yeah, they actually did. They actually felt like kids. And, you know, it was genius to have Jackie Chan play Splinter because he was hilarious.

Best rolling years he's not in the States. I know, I know. So I hope I've heard they're doing Last Ronan, or the Ronan series. I just hope they tackle that with as much weight as the 91, 90s one did. So you've said like you've grown up on like sort of fandoms and comic books and such. Yeah. And obviously Ninja Turtles, these horror action movies. What were the comic books that you read?

Well, I was really into finding newer material. And at that time, Image Comics was coming out for the first time. So Spawn was a big one, which has got a lot of horror elements too. I think it was either the first, maybe the first one where they had the clown, and then there was another one with an ice cream man. It was dark. I mean, they were basically serial killers out there, like impaling people with ice cream cones and keeping dead bodies and freezers. So that was one that really stuck out to me, not only because of the, the content was definitely intriguing because it was so dark, but the artwork was fantastic. And then also the figures that McFarland put out were so iconic because they were like, mechanical. They weren't like toys anymore. They were like model kits. So that was something X-Men, obviously, was a, I just, I bought a ton of that. So between those, those were the main comic books that I really, and then Marvel, like a lot of

Marvel stuff, I just kind of would browse and have on hand. There was a comic book store in the valley called Comic Kid, which I would try to go to after school almost every day. Oh, you would actually like hang out there. Yeah, yeah. I've always been kind of like a visual, absorbent kind of individual. And I had the cards. Like, so, you know, my, I have a lot of memorabilia.

Wow. It's still stored in a garage somewhere that I'm hoping that one of these days I can display them because all of my action figures have not been taken out of the package. I know. I go there and it's like, it's like those Jackie Chan fight scenes with the antiques. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just don't knock anything. Don't touch anything.

Yeah. But yeah, I just, I went to my parents' house and in the garage, they still have a bunch of the stuff that I bought when I was a kid. And I found all of these toys that have not been open because I wanted to maintain the collector's spirit. Well, you directed at a very young age, if I'm not mistaken. What was the Britney Spears thing? I actually don't know what this whole history is.

So it's funny talking about all this movie inspiration, all the things that I grew up wanting to do. But then I found my, I ended up somehow in the music business. You were a dancer. I was a backup dancer. I was, you know, I originally did dancing for a hobby. Like, it was just something fun to do. And then while I was here in L.A., I might as well get a little extra cash for what I

considered would be for college. So, you know, I would run to different auditions here and just kind of get a Nike industrial or a Fox Kids commercial, but nothing, anything too serious. But as I kept going, I got a gig to dance for, you know, Britney Spears in 1999. And when she was still on the cusp of blowing up, it was a VMA performance with her and in sync. And ever since I did that one, I just kind of stayed within that world. And I worked with one of my best friends named Wade Ropsen was the choreographer. He brought me on as a mentor.

And he really taught me. To the one who married you? Yes, he is. That's right. He officiated our wedding. And I mean, I owe a lot to him. He has taught me so many things along the way, so many skills. and he brought me on when he was choreographing and directing.

So I got to witness what it would take to be in that spot eventually. And then eventually I got to direct and choreographed my own tour and music videos, you know. What music videos? I choreographed with my friend Columbus short, Me Against the Music. Did me against the – you choreographed me against the music? Oh, it's huge. That was a big one. And then on tour, we did a couple other numbers like Boom Boom and, I.

forget what else, a few of them. And then the choreographer that I worked with at the time to handle a lot of the other numbers was Brian Friedman, who's, like, iconic in the choreography world, still is. And he co-choregraphed, I'm a slave for you with wait. Oh, cool. So, like, I was around for all of these, like, iconic moments that have become pop culture now. But when I did my last tour, I directed the tour called the Onyx Hotel, I was 19. Whoa.

And then I was like, I don't want to. I never wanted to be in the music business, so... Pretty high up there. But I will say that when you're like, you know, 15 to 17, it's the coolest place to be. So you record that's huge. Me against the music, like at 17 years old? Yeah, it's like 18, right? Yeah, something around that time.

That's insane. Yeah, it was, you know, back then we didn't have social media. We had like a Canon Power Shot, and I had the bubble. iMac or whatever it was and actually the only thing that would like i had a palm pilot that somehow had service i can send an email and i thought that was sorcery so it what i appreciate about that time was that it was we were in the moment we were actually there and like talking to each other and having experiences with each other and not trying to validate it all on twitter or post everything that was going on to us so a lot of my memories are are because of like human

peer-to-peer interaction, which was instrumental for me. You know, I think in many ways, my time as a choreographer mirrors a bit of what Cameron Crow did, you know, an almost famous. Because I was young and I was always a wallflower. I was never the big voice or anything. I was just kind of the, everyone's younger brother. You know, I didn't, I wasn't quite an adult. So I was, and I looked very young, so everyone kind of treated me as such.

But yeah, after that, my first movie was fame in 2008, and I was 23. 23 years old. Yeah. That's nuts. Well, I learned a lot. You know, I was young and I really didn't know a lot. I definitely learned a lot during that experience. And it's crazy to think that yesterday was the 15th anniversary of the release.

But a lot of great memories on that movie. And I learned so much not only technically and storytelling wise, but also just politically. you know because that was the first time in the movie business which is a business that I wasn't part of until then you've got hopped around through a lot of different things just now yeah and I'm like I got questions about everything okay well I was a massive Britney Spears fan growing up massive Britney Spearsman and I was like like going to I mean John would know like when you're in a at that time it wasn't cool for a boy to be into Britney Spears but I was like unless you had a crush on her I did, but I was like, no, I'd have her out.

Like, we would have, like, our family get-togethers, all my Filipino relatives, and then my cousin, Jessica, and myself would each be gifted the same exact Britney Spears thing. And I was the only boy getting, like, a British thing. Hey, I was there, too, though. You had the greatest thing. You started. Well, no, before I worked with her, though, I was a fan.

I was a fan, you know? I think it was, I was already in the dance business, and she was known as, like, a dance artist. So, yeah, I was a huge fan. And it's so funny, me and my group of core best friends. friends were always very proud of being fans of like the backstreet boys and we went to a millennium tour and we sang every song like it was fun it was a fun period of time for music well you had the you still had like a friends in a community of yeah i didn't i was isolated and made fun but i stuck i still i still love those old songs but what did you learn was there anything from brittany

spears that you learned from her directly about that helped improve your ethics and any way of ethic or discipline or anything like that. Yeah, she her work ethic was just really top notch. And I saw her, unfortunately, work herself so hard. You know, that takes a toll after a while. And she's so kind. So that was something I learned from her is the kindness within the storm of it all is that at the end of the day, she was still in her heart of hearts a very sweet, kind, nice person. So that never change, no matter how big she got. You know, a lot of artists, when they get big, all of a sudden, their attitude changes a bit. It did not with her.

She still felt like Brittany from Kentwood, Louisiana. And that was what I learned is that even though people can gain success unlike you could possibly imagine, you can still be a good person in all of it, too. Because in the music business, specifically, you don't see a lot of that. You just don't really see that kind of genuine. nature and she I learned that from her and and just made sure I remembered that you don't have to fall victim necessarily to the kind of like mean streak of it all and when you were moving when you were transitioning into the movie fame yeah was there I'm trying to

figure out how to ask this question when you was was there because all these things about like power dynamics and abuse are being exposed everywhere now so even in the music industry that that's where the spotlight is the time of us filming is that's where a lot of it is being really shown right now. But you being a young director, were you having a difficult time kind of finding your own voice or establishing your own agency within doing this? Yeah, like I think yes and no. I think a lot of the times people trusted a large part of what I was saying just because of my background and the story content within fame. But I will say there was a lot of pushback on certain things that like I would consider cool, but maybe the

producers did not. And I just grew up with this people-pleasing gene. So I think I could have stood up for myself a lot more back then and like held my ground. But I was so afraid of not appreciating where I was making sure that I was easy to work with. And I didn't want to be like a young difficult guy, which was, you know, a tale as old as time is the young cocky guy coming in at than burning out because they were too cocky. I was very aware of all of those tropes. And I think I could have stood up for my own agency a lot more just to retain the spirit of what I wanted

the movie to be. So because I recall, I mean, bluntly speaking, it wasn't received the best, right? No, and I totally understand why. You know, on a pure business level, it did make its money back. and people still find it, but so many things were cut out of the movie. You know, we...

Out of your control. That's completely out of my control, you know, for a rating or a different marketing concept. Yeah, I mean, originally the original version was pretty, pretty much a hard PG-13. Like borderline R? Borderline, yeah. We were dealing with a lot of adult stuff, but we had to ship the rating, I think, to try and appeal more. for a younger audience to try and gather a larger audience. So unfortunately, there were a lot of scenes that just had to get dropped.

And I learned a lot from that experience, too, as far as just knowing my place, I think. You know? Sure. Yeah. It was a huge learning experience. Was it tough in the aftermath to deal with that kind of what I considered a bit of a failure? It was hard at the time, but deeply necessary. Well, you always learn from.

failure. That's the only way to learn. I learned so much more from failure and you got to fail, God knows how many times before you have success. And I think that's just the beauty of it all. Was that like one of, in your career trajectory of growing up, because it seemed like you were having just from the outside hearing this, you're having all these like successes in the teen years and then you get this movie and then you're kind of hit with this feeling of failure. Was that like one of your monumental like learning failure moments yeah and you know and as you said like I agree up until then I had a good thing going I did and was I did I have an ego from that of course I was young and there were a lot of yes is coming my way and everything that came out of that experience became

huge um so I didn't really know what that kind of artistic failure was until fame. And that's why it was such a necessary yet deeply important time in my life and specifically my career too, because I needed it. I needed to get knocked way down and figure out what that was and see if I had it in me to try to crawl back up, which led to Mortal Kombat, actually. That's cool. Has there ever been someone you've worked with where you did find yourself having to get past the nerves a little bit? Michelle, yo. Oh, Michelle Yo, for a brother son. Yeah, I think it's also just kind of this, I had such a huge respect for her.

Not only because of the career she carved out for herself, but a lot of her older movies are just so iconic. And I used to watch them all. Like what? Well, Silver Hawk was one, all the ones she did with Jackie Chan. I think Crouching Tiger is the one that made her famous in the States, but she had such a massive career before. I remember learning that she was a dancer. before I thought that was super cool because at the end of the day like really cool fight choreography is dancing it is balletic in its own kind of brutalism so

when I learned that about her I found something in myself there so I respected it a lot more so when I worked with her on brother's son admittedly I had to get rid of the nerves because I had to go pitch her the show with the show creators at a hotel and like telling her why she should do this role and I just she was an icon to me so it was like I don't know and she you know she's she's she's an Asian woman that I and I have like I think just this gene to really be respectful I know exactly what you're talking like it's just like I don't want to piss her off there's some familial thing that is going off in your brain yeah it's like the subconscious thing and her superpower is that within five minutes or less

she completely takes all those nerves off the table. Yeah. She becomes incredibly disarming. And she, you all of a sudden feel like she is a family member, like a cool auntie, pretty fast. Cool. So that was something that was great to witness and also feel. Because it's funny how, and I won't name, name,

but like the bigger the stars, I've noticed that they are a lot. kinder and more chill. Really? And sometimes when I have worked with stars that are not very big is where I see the attitude. So it's a very interesting dynamic that I don't really know how to fully intellectualize. That's kind of the inverse of what the cliche is usually interpreted to be. Yeah, it is. I mean, listen, you're going to have your superstars that are problematic, but I've never worked

with him, but I've heard the same thing with people like Anthony Hopkins. All right? Like he's just there to do his job. He's very good at it. He doesn't complain. And you earn a lot more respect that way. You know, the crew and the audiences, I think they just, they can see that. Did you ever see, I just remember this Michelle Yo movie I watched, Maggie Chung. It's called The Heroic Trio. I've never seen that one. It's like a martial arts superhero movie. Really? It's pretty awesome. How old is it? It's old. I saw it in the 90s. Okay, because there was this video store on Ventura Boulevard called Toy Mandala that I used to go to all the time. And they had this section in the back where they were just importing movies before the internet. I could just type it in or whatever. And I never saw that there, but I got a lot of handful of her movies from that store.

And I've never heard of that one. I've always been in such admiration of her because I feel like after like post Matrix, a lot more actors have been doing their own stunts and fight scenes and stuff. But before Matrix, you know, there was like Jackie Chan and Michelle Yo and out there's also like Sam O'Hong and U.M.B. And Michelle Yo, as well as like Cynthia Rothrock, I would say, they were these two women who were doing their own stunts. Like you watch Supercop and she is riding the bike on the train. She's doing it. She's doing it all. And she's bursting through the pain glass and yeah. You know, all the. She is awesome. It's like she's always been such a badass to me and to me.

I like you mentioned Buffy I grew up on Michelle Yo and who else was it was like a really I mean Sarah Connor you talked about like Terminator 2 of course you know and I think like usually when people are like badass when we've always been around Sarah Connor Ripley they are badass but Michelle yo though who is a whole other story of that's a real bad she's not just playing a badass like she has to do these own stunts well doesn't have to but she chose to no she chooses to and I think she was brought up in that kind of training where you that's that's the role you play and um but like you said every after the matrix everyone decided they wanted to be kianu i mean he he is an example of someone who takes that shit seriously yeah and it shows everyone says the nicest things about him he

couldn't be kinder and he works his ass off when it comes to all of the martial arts and he has a deep respect for it so i appreciate when i can see that in in other people um and michel yo is um She's still doing it. I mean, she's still, like, doing an iconic role after iconic role. And I think the next one is going to be heard wicked. So I'm very excited to see. That's another thing about her is that, you know, a lot of the times when you, when you see an action star and you're like, oh, but can they act? Like, Michelle can act.

She can act. Mainly she just acts. Yeah. She just won an Oscar. Yeah. She's like a really good. So she takes that craft very seriously as well. It just goes to show that, you know, her discipline.

I want to ask for the YouTube audience. For Brother's son, you had a couple people work on it. They were the ones in the two-on-one fight and everything everywhere all at once. Yes. The Lay Brother. Yeah. Andy and Brian, they are awesome. If guys haven't seen the Marshall Club channel, that's like their big start.

Yep. So I remember when you told me, I was like, the Marshall Club. I was like so excited that they were on the, what was it like working with them? They were great. I mean, just, I mean, talk about just energy. great energy. So yeah, I had a lot of fun with both of them. They're super nice or super chill. They're very enthusiastic and becomes infectious. And they got to, and they did a great job acting. Like we, you know, they, they had a bigger role in that show. And they got to, you know,

have a lot more lines. And it was really great to work with them. You know, those guys are really chill. I got to, I met Brian, like, virtually, but Andy. He, I got to talk about it. You know Andy more. Yeah. Yeah. When we went to an interview with him, they've seen our reactions to some of their stuff and I think they're just so impressed like they're the type of like people I've watched just from this internet videos to where they are now and like shang chi's like oh this is so insane to see where they're at and I really hope they get even bigger I think they will I mean that's just they their work ethic also is unmatched and they work their ass off and Brian is super cool too and I remember we had to ask Andy to dye his hair and I was nervous about that because he's got

that iconic hair yeah I don't think he loved it But he did it. And luckily, it all worked out because they were definitely instrumental to the show. I got to say, we actually, fun story for everyone. Kevin, let me shadow him on set for two dates for brother's son. And that made me go directing looks like a pain in the ads. Well, you met Michelle. I meant Michelle briefly.

Yeah. Oh, I took a phone. Actually, I never posted it again. You should now. Again, now, I took a photo when Michelle, Kevin made sure I got one and like a moron. I posted it for like five seconds. And then I immediately got a call like, you can't post that. I was like, my bad.

And I never reposted the photo. You should now. Yeah. You should now. I mean, that was a great day. You came on a really good day. Then you also came on a really late night. Yeah, that was my interest.

I was because Kevin knows my main passion is writing. Yeah. And I was like, I've been interested in learning about how to direct. And so I was like, oh, let me just see if I could share. And they're like, cool, you're going to be here at 5 p.m. to 5 p.m. I was like, what? And watching that was incredibly eye-opening into the hardship of it. And weirdly, the biggest takeaway I got from it was how nice you are to everyone there. As I've been around a lot of environments, I myself, like having to be in leading positions, I can get stressed and take it out. And I have to like be very mindful about the affect I'm having.

at the lead energy here when the cameras are not rolling, but like you're directing and everything, what do you think is, if you have to boil down the quality of being a leader on set, what would you think it would be the most important quality? I think respect, honestly, respect. Because that's the thing is that when you're, yes, there are stressful moments. But I think at the end of the day,

I try to pull back and realize how lucky I am to have this stressful moment where I'm stressing about like a martial arts sequence going, taking too long, right? That's what I have to stress about or like a superhero is not hitting a hose perfectly. Like, come on, these are these aren't really stressful things. This should be fun.

And everyone on set is there because they fell in love with movies first. So when you recognize that and you treated more like a collaborative process, it is significantly more fun. Like making, you know,

when we were all kids, we made movies, with our friends, like a little silly things with a handy cam or whatever we had available to us. And I think people, when they get into the business, yes, a lot of the business is very, very, very serious. It does get very stressful. But you should still remember what you're doing. And every craftsman on that set is an artist too.

So I really like there's not the, I don't like the sense. I've been on sets where somebody is definitely like, it's my way and only. And I think that works for certain people. I just know, I don't know everything. And I appreciate hearing other people. So on set, when you have that collaborative spirit, I think everyone works harder because they want to be there

because they feel respected. Yeah. So it sounds like you empower and you lean on other people's strengths. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think one of the biggest strengths that I've witnessed in a leader is knowing when you're wrong, knowing that you don't have the answer and that someone else has a better answer. Because so often, you know, when you're dealing with higher-ups or, you know,

massive producers, a lot of times you get a note just for the sake of getting a note, like they feel like they have to give a note. Oh, yeah. And that's, I get it. I mean, all that executive world is something that I couldn't even begin to understand how stressful is because it's corporate and it's it's tough you're trying your best not to get fired so I know there's a lot of hard stress that comes from people in their position but when I witnessed like Brad Valchuk is actually a great example he was open to hearing everyone's ideas you know at the end of day he does make the final call. But he was great when he knew he didn't know and allowed other people to have the expertise. So I think that's a massive strength is to know when you just don't

know. You don't have to act like you know the whole everything. Have you ever had like an aha moment from listening to interviews with other directors or talking with the director directly? I actually think a lot of that style of shooting came from when I was doing a lot of research and watching videos of Robert Rodriguez. Oh, really? Yeah. And when I worked with him on Book of Boba Fett, it was just kind of cemented how great of a leader he is and how infectious his movie lover energy just infects everybody.

Because at the end of the day, I truly feel like he's one of the. where directors who is still making it because he loves it so much. It's like somewhat not political with him. He just wants to make things that he gets excited about. And that is something I think to strive for because we just want to make movies. We want to make TV and it's fun. And he was very respectful to everybody on set and took the time to hear everyone out. And I think that would, I got a lot of, a lot of inspiration from the way he worked.

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packed with premium features like available massaging front seats that only feels extravagant. And the way you talk about how to work with people on set reminds me a lot about what I've heard Vince Gilligan say with Breaking Bad.

I remember him saying the best idea wins. Yes. Actually, I remember you did something that made me feel very special one day, you're doing a case you guys don't know with actual filming um and it it was like even just more affirmed when i was on the set for that was like wow sometimes doing a five second shot can

take hours to set up like just the and then you got to think about that for like a whole episode of television or a movie and they're like wow it's insane and there's like this one shot with someone playing with like a video game controller and i was just next to you and then um you could you were saying like something's off about this shot and then i suggested something you let me suggest something and then you applied it and I was like yeah have one thing in here no it's I mean that's a I don't even know if the shots in the show but I just that I mean but that's a good example of just you don't have to pretend you know everything I think that's the wrong energy to put out there at the end of the day the goal is to just make it make it entertaining and

make it good and if someone can help you do that then I don't know what the problem is you know that's really fair yeah I mean at the end of the day everyone's there because they They, yes, it's a business, it's the way of life. They're making money. But if you got into that business, I do truly believe in some way in your past, you fell in love with movies and specifically movie making. And I think you just have to honor that on set. Don't treat anyone like they're just doing this little thing for you.

It's a big part. Absolutely. I remember, you see, did Book of Boba Fett. I don't know these episodes of Agents to Shield. You seem to have this really great friendship with me. I went. She's great. Yeah. And did that start with agents of shield? Yeah, it started with Agent of Shield and then she just ended up becoming like she felt like a relative. She, you know, we would always have fun on episodes together. She'd come to family parties and she's another one

who, you know, she's iconic too. She's done so many things and big iconic roles. You meet her and she's just like one of the nerds like that's the thing is that she's just very fun very fun she makes you feel special she's hilarious um and it's she's having fun so you're having fun like she gets a kick out of doing fight scenes and unfortunately every time she sees me she reminds me but she has gotten injured probably the most on the fight sequences that i've done oh really yeah and i feel really bad about that it's it is an unfortunate situation but um they came out fantastic i i did me or brief you introduced me to her briefly yes i immediately told her for some reason i cite street fighter whenever oh my god yes and i know

like street fighter has had this sort of i feel like that movie in particular has had a uh so bad it's good quality yeah it's got a room like the room you know it's got a i mean the story is behind it also just a story in general like who who who played street fighter and said this is just this is what the movie should be like it doesn't it doesn't make any sense but um she did have one of the that she had one of there's like one moment in there with ral julia where the uh whatever the tuesday line is um with the day your dad die talking so she is part of like the one scene that has like the line that people actually that people love and i remember when even when i was a kid i was like what is this origin

story with blanca i don't understand what this is and dulcim never fought. He was a scientist. What weird planet is this a street fighter movie? Of course, I saw it a hundred times. I loved it. I really did appreciate at the very end when they all hit their character poses. For no reason.

No reason at all. It was great. It was great. They even had that video game. Did you ever play? It was a street fighter over? The live action. They got the actors to be in it.

And for summary, it's supposed to be exactly like Street Fighter of the game, but it's worse for some reason. Yeah, I mean, that's not what you fell in love with. That's the game. I mean, Mortal Kombat is the one that set its claim at like the live action. Yeah. Like the first two or like or three. I don't know.

We're all like live action capture. But still to this day, I think the best street fighter adaptation has been the anime. Yes. The animated movie. Yeah. That's a bad. I remember Ken and Vega fighting. Vega and Chun.

Oh, yeah. Vega and Chun Lee. Yeah, that was great. There were some gratuitous Chun Lee in that in that movie, the like the rated R version yeah but it was a great movie that's the one where like raii spends like 20 minutes doing a had to like yeah and also it was just a brother the found family story yeah the relationship between ken and ryu was like awesome it was a brother you grew up on anime as well i yes i did a lot of but like a lot of the things that i grew up watching it was all the

darker stuff so what was like your favorite anime growing up ninja scroll that's a you did we were not censored did your parents know about that one yeah I don't think they really watched it. That was really inappropriate. It's really inappropriate. But it was so stunning. Like, I remember the animation being gorgeous.

That movie disturbed the hell out of me. I don't get that disturbed all of us. That disturbed the hell out of me. The big rock-like creature, like just literally ripping limbs and, like, drinking it. I was like, oh, my God, that's going to be branded in my head forever. There's a lot of sexual discomfort stuff in that movie.

A lot of uncomfortable stuff in there. But that, that's one. Akira is so clean. cliche, but it's obviously a masterpiece. If there was an anime you wanted to adapt, is there one that would come to mind? Oh, Ninja Scroll. You would want a new Ninja Scroll movie? Oh, yeah, because that is epic.

It's like, could be epic. Have you actually thought about this? I've thought about it a little, but I don't know. It's like you definitely would need a budget to make that, right? Because it can be very grand. What I do like about it, though, if you peel back all the pieces, is that it is actually quite intimate that story. It is just about like one guy experiencing these random monsters along the way. So there's a way to reel it all in, but there's still an epic scope at the

end and the whole storyline has a pretty big impact. But yeah, of course, someone is great. I think I truly believe that at one point, when they announced 47 Ronan, I was like, oh, they're going to do the Ninja Scroll. If it was well received, they would have done. Yeah, yeah. And that movie, unfortunately, just didn't do well, because I saw that as an opportunity to, like, kind of take a lot of inspiration from Ninja Scroll and just make it live action. But I do think that if that did well, then, you know, Ninja could have had a chance. Yeah. Is there a comic book character? Because you've dealt into so much of the comic book world, the Age of Shield, Iron Fist, other stuff in humans, flash. Yeah. Did you, is there a comic book character that you've known? like, oh, I would love to adapt this one.

Yeah, and I think it's also another popular one. And I believe, I believe Matt Reeves is trying to get this one off the ground if I read that correctly on some fan blog. But Clayface. Oh, you'd want to do a Clayface? I mean, that is so, that episode is epic. I love that, that episode. Of the animated series.

Of the animated series. Yeah, I mean, it's such a great time period. The fact that he was like this actor and the mutil, you know, it's the body dysmorphia of it all. There's just so many, there's so many psychological elements to that particular character that I think is just perfect for live action. Do you have an actor that you would be like, if I were to fan cast someone as Clayface? Oh man. That's, that is a little hard. I mean, I've gone back and forth with like Ben Middleson to Evan Peters to Tom Hardy. Like they're just like kind of, but it's, it takes an emotional depth. that I know all three of those guys can portray to make that iconic.

I think it has a chance, like, that's why the Joker is so awesome because of the psychological depth of that character. It's like, it's brilliant. I do think Clayface could be not only brilliant in dealing with certain psychological issues, but also on a visual level, it would be really fun to figure out how to do it. Yeah. Because it is, if you can figure out how to do it practically as much as you can,

I mean, obviously you would need computer help, but that would be one that I would love to finally see like a real version of it. It sounds like it would be the amalgamation of literally everything we talked about today. Yeah, I mean, I've always said that's the one character that I think would be just epic and scale. And when I was younger, I wanted to see Gambit.

And I finally did. You finally got a gambit. Finally got just a little bit, though. Just a little bit of the Gambit. But I also saw that clip that was released, where he looks like he went through the portal. He might be around still. Yeah.

I think it was too, it was too good of a thing not to try to revisit, you know. So anyway, I got to say, like, I know we're not talking about Deadpool and Wolverine, but it was how great was it to see Wesley? That was awesome. I mean, that first movie, I think, changed a lot for me, too. Do you emote in, and, uh, are you, I feel like when someone's in the level you're at, you kind of get used to stuff and you go to the theaters a lot. I know you do.

Yeah. Do you find yourself like, what am I trying to say? Okay. Like when Wesley Snipes showed up, I freaked out in the theater. I was like really loud. Do you get that way with movies? Yeah, I do. I still do.

I mean, I try my best. It's really hard to, a lot of the times not to sit and try to analyze the technicalities of everything. But if I can just sit as a fan and watch it, yeah, that was a movie that I turned into a fan boy. Because it was like everything 15 year old me would have been. Like, what the fact? Even younger probably. I don't know. I don't know even.

I don't know when the X-Men animated series was out 97. So I was. 96. Yeah. There's a show called 97. No, yeah. 96, 96. I just got to subtract one.

95. I mean, how many seasons was the original? Oh, God. It's four or five. Four or five. Yeah, not that many. I remember the, and that's another version of, like, animation that they took pretty seriously. Like, the first two are sad.

Like, morphed dying and. it was not like happy that those, those shows were not like just pure silliness. They were like dealing with some harder issues, which was awesome. And Batman the animated series, too. Yeah, that was beautiful. They were beautiful. They were cinematic. Yeah, they were, like, I would believe that an adult can watch it with their kid

and still get like the same or a different storyline and have it appeal to them. Do you recall the first movie you went to where the crowd was kind of was cheering a lot? Terminator 2. Oh, the crowd was going crazy in that. Yeah, because I remember vividly when I was younger, I was a kid. I had thought we were going to go see Problem Child, too. And I was like so excited to see that movie. And my parents decided to run an audible and said, you know what?

we want to go see Terminator 2, and I was mad. I was like really upset. I was like, fine. And then my whole life changed after that move. I mean, like, yeah, I remember going home after that. And that was another one of those, I'm obsessed with behind the scenes stuff. So I had to see how they did it, right? Because it was groundbreaking.

But I remember I went home and I took some tinfoil and I ripped pieces off, put it on a scotch tape, and then with a red Sharpie outline the little kernels and, like, put them all over my face, like, bullet. Oh. Like a little bullet thing. Terminator wounds? No, like the Arnold T-800. Oh, that's what you're going for. Yeah.

So it's like just little pieces with a little red around it. So, and I just ended up becoming completely obsessed. Had you seen Terminator 1? No. So when you saw, did you think Arnold was a bad guy when you were watching it? Actually, I really, I don't think I did. You piece together. You're like, I know the twist.

He's all right. I think, yeah, because it was definitely, obviously the opening is super funny when he goes into the bar. I just thought that was all hilarious. It was in the mall where you knew he wasn't a bad guy. Right, right. So I never, since I didn't know the first one, I wasn't really sure to be nervous that he was a bad guy when he first showed up on screen.

And I also remember just thinking Arnold was the coolest guy. he is ever when I watched that movie I believe that is my I talk I go between Matrix and Terminator I believe Terminator 2 is my favorite movie of all time it's I just rewatched it again like a couple weeks ago it's so good and that's the thing about Cameron is that he's he's really good at pacing but he's also good his action sequences are always so masterful because they're always fluid they're always shifting like you think this is the goal but oh no not anymore because this happened and then the like he creates obstacles after obstacle over each other that feel

seamless. They don't feel like, oh, let's just do this so that we can have this sequence where they're on a, on a collapsing skyscraper. You know, it was story stuff. There is like emotionality, I feel in some of his action scenes

that semi make me want to be moved to tears. Like when he picks up, when Arnold grabs John Connor off the bike and the chasing, when he saves him I'm this there's something about that moment that that gets to me no other way he grabbed him and it's all very brilliant visual protector yeah I mean I cried at the end of the terminate 2 when I was a

kid I mean when and then I still cry I cry more yeah and then just to add a little salt to the wound having him do the call back to the thumbs up I was like oh my god this movie is fantastic yeah theatrical or special edition which ones do you prefer I because of the purity of my experience I like the theatrical version because that's the way I experienced it the first time I have watched all the other versions, right? But I think I retain a little bit of a love for that one because to me, at the time I watched it, it was perfect. Because I've watched a special edition recently. And while there's like scenes in there that I do love a lot, like the whole iconic one with the mirror with the Hamilton's twin, I love this learning the smile scene.

I think that's really fun. There's a lot. But at the same time, I did watch it going. The theatrical one definitely is like a sharper. It tighter. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

that's some of the hardest things as a director to do is cut something awesome. Mm-hmm. Because as cool as that one scene might be, pacing is more important. Yeah. So that is a real struggle. Yeah. When you're like, oh, my God, I spent all this time shooting this thing and it's great. It's got that one camera move that I thought was awesome, but you just got to let go.

What's your favorite franchise? I have a guess. It's hard because a lot of the ones that I loved turned sour. What were you going to guess? Oh, well, yeah. The fact that that guy has reinvented himself, God knows how many times. It's just a testament to the creator. I mean, he is, Don Mancini somehow was able to move with pop

culture than we create it. Yeah. I mean, I prefer the first three because that's what I grew up on. Those are horror films. The second one, the first one is straight up a horror movie. Yeah. Like there's not really any comedy in there. Second one introduced a little bit of comedy. Third one, even more. And then somehow he became this iconic, hilarious little murderer. Yeah. I didn't love the brides of Chuckies, the seats of Chuck. All that stuff. I appreciated. but I still retained a lot of love for the non-stitched-up version of Chucky. The opening sequence of Childs Play 2 was specifically something that I just re-watched where they took the crispy guy and they like turned it into a new thing.

So my favorite are the first two. I think the most re-watchable one is two. What scares you? Like, okay, when you were a kid, what movie really scared you? Exorcist scared me. Exorcist was the one that really got. I think I get scared of movies. movies that make you be like terrified to like live in your house or um something that can happen

to your family like it's one thing to see a creature feature and you're like okay yeah i mean i'm not going to turn into a werewolf kind of thing but movies like the exorcist where it just happens to someone you love and the whole horror scene takes place in a bedroom your bedroom i think is the most effective like i remember how terrified and this is into a career where i knew how movies were made right But I had, at the time, I was in Australia for promotion for fame. And the distributor over there in Australia was about to distribute this little tiny film that they've acquired with no stars called paranormal activity. And they were like, do you want to go to a screening of it? We're doing it for a bunch of distributors.

I said, sure. So I went in and watched it by myself, not knowing anything, anything. That night, I had a hard time falling asleep in my hotel room. Wow. Because I was just nervous about being sleeping. Yeah. You know, so when you can get people to that point where they're just terrified of something that's in their everyday life,

it's way more terrifying than any zombie thing could ever be to me. Yeah. The suburban horror of it all is, but that movie terrified that crap out of me. paranormal activity, I remember not having seen anything. I just had people being like, have you heard of this movie? Have you heard of this movie? I went to the theater to watch it. It was packed.

I said it out loud to someone like, yeah, I've never heard of it. And then because I said that, every stranger around me started conversing me, like, yeah, I don't know anything about this. People have been talking about it. Like, it's a good movie. It was that was probably the most word of mouth experience I have ever been to. And it was, now people laugh at it. But that movie terrified the shit out of it.

Yeah, I mean, the first one is just so good. But, you know, talk about another franchise that they kind of oversaturated, you know. But it was magical when it came out. And also, you have to give credit to the OG that even is the reason why paranormal existed was Blair Witch. Right. I mean, talk about social media without social media. Like the internet was barely alive and there was like a website about it and you thought it was all real. yeah and all of that promotional stuff made you truly feel like oh no this is not like a movie this is

something real this is a found footage these these are not actors and back then you couldn't just like type it up and it was just like i guess it's real because it looks real and you know there's articles online about this Blair witch thing so that was a brilliant move i mean is that arguably the movie that invented found footage i would say john the absolute first, but it is like the first of major. Major ones, right? Yeah, because I couldn't name one before that. But that was the one that I was like, oh, my God, this is a great new genre.

See, that's leadership, John. I don't know everything. There you go. I learned. So what's like the most rewatchable movie for you? What's the one that every time you watch it, you get something new? Aliens. aliens is the pick huh why aliens there's something in that movie that is so i know every beat of

that damn movie but i feel like there's truly something in there for everyone it's like such a great genre mashup of a movie with a dumb amount of one-liners that have become iconic i don't know what it is about that movie and i am not really sure how to analyze it but every time i rewatch that movie, I am having the best time. Yeah. There's just something in there. I love the first one too, but that's, you know, that's a slower burn. It's a no-ar.

Yeah. I can put aliens on and it's just like I'll get a little bit of everything, you know? I think it's unquestionably the superior. Like, I know there's always a toss up between alien or aliens. And for me, I go, I mean, aliens has everything. Well, you know what, I think, okay, so we're talking about franchises, right? Yeah. I think Alien, and maybe this wasn't by design, it's arguably the biggest franchise that's actually an anthology.

Every movie is like a weird different genre. Yeah. Like the first one was it's weird, not weird, like Slow Burn Noir. The second one is like an action-packed one. The third one is a jail movie. Jail movie. You know, the fourth one is a comic book film. Yeah.

It was the first time it turned into this, like, you had the camera moves and everything felt very comic booky. It was a basketball movie. Oh, yeah. Ron Perlman with his one-liners. Oh, there's one that just doesn't hold up well at all, but what was it? He's like, chicks. It's like, waste of damn ammo or so.

I don't, it just, I rewatched it. I was like, oh, that certainly does not hold up and was a dumb line back then, even. But that scene where they go and see all the clones is still burned in my memory. That's disturbing. I saw that in the theaters and my dad. But it is, it is when you break down all those movies, it is interesting that they are all different. Except for Romulus.

Romulus, I really, I really had a good time watching. I love Romulus. I did, but that is the one that's like, let's be like a lot of the alien. Yeah, I think that just went back to one and two. Yeah, primarily. Yeah, which is, was a breath of fresh air. Yeah.

Especially coming off of the ones that were very long and not as action path, you know. Hermesius and Covenant were its own things. thing i love that fed i just came back and i said you know what guys we're gonna go right back to where we started it's gonna be an actual horror movie with some action in it and uh go from there yeah i want to make sure before we wrap but there's a couple of things i do want to just touch on randomly agents of shield i've i mean it was a popular result i've never seen it but people i am i'm constantly being told to watch it i feel like there's been kind of like a this uh this just this

long gestating love for this fervor for it that keeps growing. I agree. It's great. And, you know, I got to give a lot of props to my sister and her husband, too. They were the showrunners and wrote that show with a lot of really talented people as well. But they show ran it. And it is a really fun show. Like, it's really fun.

You fall in love with the characters. The action is good. You actually give a shit about what happens to the characters because they are a family. I'm sad it got like overshadowed by the big Marvel like with the movies and there were certain storylines that they couldn't tell because of it but I thought they constantly reinvented themselves like the ghost rider season was awesome did you work on the ghost rider season? I did yeah I worked on I think all of them oh really yeah you directed the finale didn't you I did it was a lot of fun it was really sad to let that one go because it was a family too but I'm people who seen it love it

it. And a lot of people watched it when it was out. But I think newer fans are now discovering it on Disney Plus. Was it my John was asking earlier? Was there anything, uh, in your time of directing that you had personally pitched of like, hey, we should do this, try this. You were most proud of. Yeah. The first, the first time we did a winner. Oh, you pitched the oneer. Yeah, the Chloe Bennett Quake winner. Cool. That was the first time the show did something like that. Wow. Yeah. How long did it take to chore or something like that? Oh, it took a minute. And I hand it to everyone for allowing me to do it

because they were a little nervous about it. They're like, you sure you don't want to shoot another angle of this? I was like, no, because then it'll be used. I don't want to do that. It just was one shot. And kudos also to Chloe for nailing it. I mean, I think she hurt a little bit of her elbow or something during that, but she was so on board.

to make that thing work. And our camera operator was jumping up, kneeling down. It was exhausting because it was handheld. So, you know, he didn't have like the gimbal. He was like doing crunches and he's like doing squats and going up and making sure this thing. It was a team effort because there's effects going off to like squib hits and smoke and all that stuff. But it was great. It was great.

What was your, do you have a favorite memory of working on the finale? The finale was an emotional experience because, you know, everyone on the show. show in the episode was saying bye to each other. So shooting that scene where they're all basically going, we're going our separate ways was highly emotional. And we didn't even shoot that last, right? Like we shot that. Oh, wow. That's weird. That's the thing is that we had to shoot everything at order. But that scene was specifically so emotional for everyone because yes, they're saying goodbye on the show, but it deeply affected. They've been doing that show for seven, eight years. So that's a long time to get to know people and work together in hard time to good

time. So that was a, that was a emotionally draining day. When you say emotionally draining, are you like watching the monitors crying yourself? Yeah, when they cry, I cried. That's the thing. And I had been a part of it, luckily been a part of it for so long that I had a lot of emotional investment in there too. Of course. But yeah, they were, you know, they genuinely liked each other. and it was hard for them to say bye. What was the actual last scene that was shot for Aeis of Shield? Oh my God, I can't even remember.

It would be a great sound by. Yeah, I don't even know what it was because I think it was like something small. You know, like that's the thing is that you don't, you can't really, in a perfect world, you designed the schedule to be like the last scene or the movie is the last thing we're shooting. But it just never turns out that way.

Like I wish you would need a budget to do something like that, like a big budget to control your schedule to somehow magically fit in that little window. But I can't remember. It might have been like an insert for all I know. I don't remember. So you have to do the goodbye scene and they're like, all right, I'll see you tomorrow.

Oh, yeah, exactly. It is weird. It's weird, but it's impossible to schedule anything. So it'd be hard to do that. To my understanding with Network TV, you get less freedom. It's more like a writer's medium. And was there a show, though, that you did work on?

I imagine might be Brother's Son, but maybe outside of Brother's Son, where you felt you had a little bit more creative freedom than usual. Yeah, I mean, besides Brother's Son, I was given a lot of freedom on Shield. Once I was able to prove myself, like I definitely, because that was my first TV episode ever. Okay, cool.

I got a shot. Wow, that started like everything. Yeah, that started. So I had to prove myself, a lot of support from my sister and Jet. as well, but they allowed me to do oneers and things. And then once I was able to be known that I can confidently put something together, I was allowed to explore different types of things.

Yeah. And that was a lot of fun. And then brother's son, I had a lot of freedom because Brad was so great. And Byron was so great at allowing space for that. And I got, I had a lot of freedom on Teacup as well. You know, Ian McCulloch was really great at being a collaborator. He's another one of those leaders who knows when he doesn't know and allows people to have an opinion and have a voice. And actually, he was like that with everybody.

I'm excited to see this show because like I said, we went through your filmography and a lot of it is mainly in like this action area. We've talked a lot about horror in the time we've been together. And Teacup is at least being advertised directly as a horror story is there's, it's kind of, because it's such a mystery. Yeah. And I heard it's like based on a book, but I hear it's like not really loose. It's pretty loosely. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's definitely, um, the approach is to me, it feels like a Twilight Zone episode, which I, the whole thing. The whole thing. Okay. It feels like a horror Twilight Zone episode. And you can't tell us why it's called T-Code. I cannot. So there's a mystery as to why it's called T-Code. Yeah.

I literally tried figuring out when I was watching the trailer. I will say as far as the press run has gone, you just cannot. answer much because it's all a mystery yeah that's why i was like what the hell do i ask i'm gonna talk about agents of shield yeah yeah i don't know what the hell if i can't even talk about with tica besides the fact that it comes out what with directing it though does it feel a little bit more um exciting for you since it is a horror show yeah i i really i have such a deep love for the horror genre because i think it encompasses so many things that i love as far as filmmaking is concerned but i also feel like it's a fan first genre as well.

Like fans love horror. They like making horror. It doesn't matter if it's low budget or high budget. There's an artistic obsession with that genre. I'm one of them as well. Like, I'll watch any horror movie that goes from $5 to, you know, whatever, James Juan level movie, like The Conjuring or something like that. And there's something in there for everyone.

And I love that it has a lot of. subgenres too yeah like horror has so many little offshoots and you can't really say that about many other genres yeah you'll have like action comedy or buddy comedy or um but horror is just like just all these different venues that you can go yeah so um it was great to be able to not only work on the show and explore that side that i already love but also work under the guidance of people who are very iconic within that genre is there an element of tea cup that Because the trailers are so short, is there an element to it that you can perhaps tease that doesn't spoil it? Like, I'm kind of getting, because a lot of what we've talked about off this podcast has been like Mike Flanagan works and stuff like that, like horror dramas.

And because it's such a small cast, I found myself wondering, is this more of like a drama and then horror? Or is it horror first and then drama? I think every horror, good horror movie is actually a drama hidden because if you don't have the interpersonal relationships that have conflict and have weight and have context, like, just texture to it, the horror doesn't matter anymore. So I do think every good horror film I've ever seen is kind of a drama just underneath it all, which is why I think it works so well, because everyone can relate to those issues. They're very relatable.

I think, yes, there's drama in it. A lot of mystery. And when we go full horror, it goes full horror. Awesome. I can't wait. K&B did the effects. Oh, cool. Yeah, so that was.

What else have they done? Walking Dead. Walking Dead. It was a big one. Greg Nicotero. That's his company. Okay. So this gets violent.

It gets violent. It's bloody. All right. So I'm going to, John, if you want to help out with some speed around questions, This is the part we can do a clip out for this one. This would be fun. Okay. We got the director and producer of teacup here.

We're going to do some horrid speed route questions. Okay. What is the most underrated horror movie this year that you've seen? Underrated horror movie that I've seen? This year. Oddity. Audity. What's oddity?

It is, I think it's, I forget it's, it's, where is it from? I think it's from Ireland. It's an Irish horror film. I watched it on Shudder. U.S. audiences will not. be familiar with the cast, but it's so well crafted. Okay, cool. What's your favorite horror movie you've seen this year?

I need to go through all the ones that I've seen and there's a lot of them. I think long legs. Long legs. Yeah, I just saw it. Even if you can consider that a horror movie. I consider it a horror movie. Yeah. There's a horror. Yeah, yeah. But it's also like a serial killer movie. So it, you know, it would be like calling Silence of the Lambs a horror film, which I guess

to some it is. Yeah. But I really, what I loved about that movie, was the tonal continuity, which is very hard to come by. I think in a lot of films was that, like, you stick to the tone and you just never move away from it. True. That's a really solid point. It's hard to do that because a lot of people have so many ideas and it just kind of runs

off the rails. But that movie was very solid in making sure that every damn scene was as tense as it was. Yeah. And the restraint, I think a lot of, like, that's really hard in horror is to know when to just not do something. True, true. So I will say that's probably one of my favorite. What's your favorite performance in horror?

Well, there's a recent one that came to mine. But it's, again, like, this is wondering whether or not it's horror or not, but Willa Fitzgerald in Strange Darling. Everyone keeps talking about this movie. Is epically great. I mean, I only knew her from the Scream TV show, right? And some little roles here and there, but when I saw that movie, I mean, it is a hell of a,

performance. Scariest movie theater experience you've ever had. Oh, paranormal activity. Okay. Yeah. Paranormal activity. Johnny got any? Yes.

What's the best dance movie? I knew that. Oh, the best dance movie? Who did you ask for a movie? What's the best dance movie? I mean, okay, there's two levels.

Okay. I really, really love Step Up 2. Okay. Because it's super fun. But if you go back, all that jazz. Okay.

To me, it's one of the best. dance movies ever made haven't seen that one or step up it's a you know Bob Vossey directed it and it's about mounting a Broadway show and it's great cool yeah i think a great question would have been to ask you how has your career in dance influence or directing you know i mean action choreography that's for sure absolutely yeah yeah i think because of my love for the way dance films were shot back in the day with like jean kelly and Fred Astaire and Stanley Donnan and Busby Berkeley,

it does lend itself to how action choreography should be shot. I was never a fan of overcovering something. Like, okay, let's just get this from every angle, and then we'll edit it together later. So if you watch a lot of the greats from back then, as far as a dance scene, like go rewatch some of those classic singing in the rain. It's a white shot. And they just move with people.

And if you have the talent to do it, let them do it. Sounds awesome. Yeah, so that would be. If you could help any reboot, what would it be? Event Horizon. You would helm an Event Horizon reboot. Yes. Okay.

I would love to do that. That's a movie. That's, I don't know if that's underrated. I think a lot of people can appreciate that movie, but that is a movie that also left a very big impact on me. All right. Yeah. What horror video game would you want to adapt?

I still would love to adapt. resident evil in like an actual like really adapted from the game i always thought it would be so cool to do resident evil where you direct it let me tell you how to direct your movie you like walk into you know how there's always like you can like walk into the next shot sometimes you can hear the zombie and the other shot then you walk in and it's there like i look like the way that game was cinematically shot the first one is that's terrifying yeah it was um that was my first survival horror game I've ever played. And I think I loved it because of how cinematic it was. And listen, I've seen all the movies. I think they just took a different turn because

the first one didn't really stick to the source material. No. I just would want to make the scariest version of Resident Evil. It deserves it. Yeah, like action second, not action first. Sure, sure. Yeah. Best non-chucky horror icon. Best Chuckie, non-chuky, non-chuky. Non-chuckie horror icon. Sounds like Nunchuck, but... Yeah, yeah, that actually... Because of my age, the one that was the most impressionable to me was ghost face. Ghost face.

Yeah, that's where my mind was going to. Yeah, just because that's another one of those movies that was like a kind of like a very big part of my inspirational... I don't know, library. Excellent. Yeah. John, I'm going to pick just one more from here. I'm going to go with what is the best CGI horror. effect or sequence in your opinion?

Oh, no. None. Honestly, that's a horror CG. That's a weird line that I never think works very well. There were some moments

in mama that I thought. That was literally what I was thinking was mama. I was like, if he did that. That's so crazy. Yeah. I will say there were some, but with that said, I've also seen the real actor do the contortion. And I was like, why didn't they just leave it as that also, right? But I will say, yeah, that was a good one.

Yeah, there's the one particular. I've only seen the movie one time in the theaters, but that was like the first good January movie. And I remember there was like something where the mom literally just, it's on the shot of like the adult and then suddenly it just turns with her. Yeah. I remember that being a really terrifying one. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, really before we go, you've brought up your sister so many times, Marissa. Yes. She, I mean, I only got to meet her a few times. She's unbelievably sweet. Yes, she is. Told our mutual friend, Arshod this too, just recently about like you and you and Ashley are like two of the most humble people I've ever got it in now. And this was like saying this in private. Now I'm putting it in public, so I look good for saying this. But, no, I really, I really do mean because I was like,

I'm like, I could dive in all this stuff about here. I'm like, you guys are never the closest to braggadocious about anything ever, nor do you guys ever resemble any ego. And I feel like Marissa is like the exact same way. Oh, yeah. She is so unbelievable. Like her, the energy she radiates is so sweet. And it's like you guys are this family that works in cinema.

And I'm surprised I didn't ask a single question about you guys being siblings growing up together. Did you bond a lot watching movies together? Or did you not, did you find a friendship later on in an adult? life. We found our friendship mainly later on in adult life because our age gap is quite large. So as we were going through milestones growing up, we always kind of missed, it was a generational gap. Okay. But as we got older, we got a lot closer. And I also, I mean, I got to say witnessing her as a leader is something that inspired me heavily because of the way she treats people with respect. And in many ways throughout my life, I think she's been a huge reason on why I'm doing what I'm doing

because, you know, when I was younger, I just imitated her all the time. Oh, really? Yeah. She was a dancer and so I would just like want to do what my big sister's doing. So I would mimic her. Oh, that's cool. And then that's how I kind of got into everything. You never really hear about like the older sister being the inspiration. Yeah. I mean, I basically have, you know, tried to follow a lot of the things she's done. And so it's definitely, it's definitely a big part of my, my upbringing, but also just my inspirations on how to conduct yourself. That's cool. Yeah. I, I'm really happy to know you both. Well, don't really know her, but I'm happy to know you.

Got a lovely home to. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And now my niece is awesome. She'll be a part of that whole group at some point yeah she'll be a film director as well i think i mean we'll see she's a great dancer now everyone's i could honestly ask like a billion questions about these things and i'll get to ask him in private yeah when we go to not scary for yes on wednesday yeah that'll be fun that'll be really fun um thursday actually please don't go on the different day uh oh was it thursday thursday yeah okay got it yeah we see joker the day before john oh yeah but you guys get to go to a special screening right yeah okay yeah unlike you we have connections i was like It doesn't come out on Wednesday.

That doesn't come out. Yeah. Okay, cool. I'm excited to see how that does. I'm excited to see it too. Kevin, thank you so much for your time. No, thank you.

I should do the T-cup plug. T-cup, not about Get Out and not really about a teacup. Why is it called T-Cup? T-Cube. T-Cube, tune in October 10th for the two-episode premiere. It's two episodes every week, right? Every week, and then it concludes on Halloween night with the last two episodes, which is the ones that I directed.

Oh. Ooh, you get the Halloween one. I get the Halloween one when no one's home. When everyone's out, enjoy Halloween. You go watch this shit. Thank you, Kevin, for being here. I'll talk with you probably in text relatively soon. Sounds good.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. And thanks, John. Thanks, John. Oh, my God. Oh, fuck. We only talked once on text. Ted.

I was like, it's not Tim. Sorry. Ted, thanks for being here. Thank you, guys. Thank you.