The Reel Rejects - Johnny Depp Vs Amber Heard Trial Week 4 | AMBER TESTIFIES Reaction & Honest Thoughts

Episode Date: May 7, 2022

Amber Heard has begun her testimony in the defamation trial with Johnny Depp leading to a lot of crying & tears, vivid stories, & more. We discuss our thoughts on everything we've heard thus far over the past 4 weeks from witnesses, audio recordings, photos, etc... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/the-reel-rejects/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Amber Hurd's had a couple days of testimony. And here's my thought process on this, was we originally, I just wanted to do like a podcast because have like a real discussion. It's like the back and forth that John and I have when talking about this because I've listened, if I haven't listened to all, I've at least listened to the vast majority of this trial and definitely all of Amber Hurd's testimony as the most recent part of it. And we have a podcast that I was like, we could just upload it to that. And so if there's, we have a video recording going on right now. So if there's no video, there's no video. If there is a video, it's up. I decided, okay, you know what, fine, screw it.

Let's just throw it up there. Because, yeah, like, I know, like here's the truth. I personally, and I consume this trial way more than John does, I personally could do a video about this every day. Like if I really wanted to milk the most popular subject right now in entertainment media, yeah, I easily could because I'm so up to date with it. And it's something I talk about with people all the time. And this would be like the third thing.

Second thing was not even like a real. I was just like that dub of Jason Mamo. Yeah, this would be the second real discussion about it. You did that one editorial piece. Yeah, and this, the thing is, though, is like, I, I'll hear other videos and such. And it seems like you kind of have to be one-sided, especially if you're doing YouTube videos. It's pretty much you've got to be like 100% all in Johnny Depp, you know. That's how all debates work.

And no, no gray area whatsoever. I know right now even saying that, that just, that turns people off right away. And I do have my opinions about a lot more than just justice for Johnny or something like that. And so I'm just hoping that this can be more of an open discussion and really just talk in the way how we talk when there isn't a camera rolling. And we're not worried about presentation or watch time. Amen. Yeah, like really just try to be honest. which is kind of the challenge with theirs on a much bigger global scale

of be honest in front of a room full of people. And then knowing this is being broadcasted to the world and everyone's having, everyone's playing jury right now. So, yeah, following up on everything, where to kick it off, I guess. There's a bit like questions like, is Amber heard telling the truth or not? Is she telling the truth? And I don't know, it's probably more. complicated than yes or no, right?

This whole thing seems more complicated than a simple yes or no, yeah. It's like there's a lot of evidence to go against her that they've managed to get physical evidence of like audio recordings and just testimonials of people. Countless messages. Yeah, yeah, some real emotional testimonials, too, to go against her. And I'll say this. I do have a hard time believing her. I do. I have a very difficult time believing her. When I watch her testify, I have a lot of the same

thoughts that I think a lot of other people do. And I weirdly don't go on Twitter or scroll through the comments because I try to first figure out how I'm feeling before I let myself be influenced by another thought and then sometimes then afterwards I'll probably go on and I'll see how people are thinking and I'm like yeah that is that is sort of where my head's at too and it is something I try to figure out

you know it's like one of the first things is I don't really watch the trial I mainly listen but when I would listen to Amber Heard and especially during a lot of like the deep size and the this like this the way I describe it is

it feels very theatrical Like it sounds like It's almost a narration Something about it would ring false to me That I would I found myself watching her Instead of simply listening to her And like a lot of people Like one of the most joked about things

Is something that I definitely was thinking Was the crying that she does Seems fake Because When someone cries There's more than just tears. A, she doesn't have any tears. That's like sign number one to me.

This seems fake. The other part is like there's other signs of, you know, your cheeks can turn red. There can be snot. There's cracking in the voice, like real cracking that happens. Your eyes turn red. You know, there's a lot of that. That doesn't really seem like real tears. And I'm not going to be the kind of person who would say a person who has suffered domestic violence wouldn't recount a story like that because everyone deals with DV differently.

Everyone handles it differently and everyone is at a different stage in their life when it comes to DV. A lot of people haven't gotten over it. A lot of people have been able to put it behind them. A lot of people have gone to therapy. A lot haven't. So everyone has like a different way of recount. I would love to go into my life. I choose not to only because I'm aware of the connection it has to other people that are still in my life.

And I wouldn't want to then inadvertently put parts of their life out there. Does that make sense? You know, I don't want to, by association, it involves them. That's not only your story. Yeah, and so that's a big part of why I choose. And that's a choice I made, like, before even we were doing YouTube. Like, that was something I learned from Facebook of putting stuff out there. And I decided just, you know, I'm just not going to do that.

And so I do take the subject really serious, you know, some criticisms about Amber Hurd. I do, I don't fully agree with of, like, the. This person wouldn't do that. I'm like, well, you know, I have been around people. Like when you, I've had to tell my story to people. And I will talk to, you know, if I don't really know the person, I can look them in the eyes, I can talk to them. I mean, it's a little, something you told me that is so true, though,

is like 99% of us don't know what it's like. And again, you know, this is what I mean. It's so easy for if you are someone who has suffered, from it, especially a woman, to put your experience onto how she's describing it, and then go, I don't, I didn't do, I wouldn't do that. And I, and I know other people who wouldn't do that. So I, I believe she's false. The same time, there's the flip side. Yeah, everybody behaves differently. Yeah, the same time there's the flip side, though, where people would, people who have suffered the stories that she is recounting might automatically believe her simply because of

the fact that it's there's this identification this catharsis this feeling of bravery of because i do believe fullheartedly that there are so many women like countless women who have been who have suffer domestic violence who have suffered sexual assault who then don't get a day in court don't get don't get a voice or immediately shut down anything there's no retribution there's nothing it's just damage that they then have to move forward with and that falls on that then it becomes only their responsibility to deal with that and that's a lonely harsh struggle i see in in friends of mine even today who have been through some things that have never received any kind of retribution and

less to just broad support and it's really hard to watch and it can be very hard it can be very isolating for people so yeah so I mean like both sides seem possible like one way to look at it is this is why I think she's lying

and another way to look at it is like this is why she's telling the truth because why would she do this? Well yeah and I mean you know there are all sorts of conspiracy theories you can have and I do believe that yeah there are some people out there who are sociopathic and who do connive but I have trouble figuring out if that's really what's happening here because yeah I look at the situation I go okay even if she was in this to get some big divorce settlement or something or

to take advantage of a cultural wave it seems like you're talking about like the beginning like when when she first went got the restraining order it got publicized and then the op-ed piece the beginning and the perpetuation too even because now this has become such a spiral of time, pain, and money, and she's counter-sue, like Johnny Depp is counter-suing her currently, and then she's going to counter-sue him again, and that suggests to me that at least either these two parties really believe in their stories, or she, if she is a sociopath, has just dug the hole so deep that she can't climb out now, and I find that, like, the last resort of thinking, I guess, is the sort of cartoon villainy of, like, I'm going to be a sociopath, wreck your career,

your money and skate away as some kind of social justice icon, it seems like this is a bad way to achieve that to me. I mean, yeah. Because I mean, at this point, I look at the situation. I'm like, what is anyone gaining from this? And I mean, Johnny Depp certainly seems to be gaining in the public eye. But even the things that they have put into evidence don't really shine a flattering light on either of them.

and they contribute to me more of that gray area. I mean, as it appears, especially after in light of that one particular tape, they often replay of her going like, okay, I didn't slap you this way, I hit you, and, you know, defining the ways in which, you know, you can be hit and what his response should or shouldn't be and belittling it. Like there are certain aspects of her, you know, behavior on record that do seem abusive and do seem like they could be outside. Just the genuine sort of, I don't know what to do in this situation.

But at the same time, you know, there's a whole bunch of gray area, especially involving drugs that I think just makes this whole situation really hard for me to get a clear read on. Because while I'm like, yeah, I don't think Johnny Depp is necessarily the monster as they keep coming back to that motif of the monster. I believe the monster is based on something real, though, and is probably in there to some degree. And, I mean, you look at the way he talks about her. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, there's some malice there. So it's one of those things where I don't think this is just a false situation that she is contrived just to get money, I guess, is the one conclusion I can solidly maybe get close to. That's, well, that's the thing. It's like, there's more to come.

There's more to come to. And like I said, we're all playing jury. That's where this all keeps coming back to. I mean, because it's talking about, like, it's. let's talk about the the Johnny Depp side of things because the flip side too also is why would Johnny Depp go through all this if he really did do this you know because a lot of the time you're like maybe he just had enough evidence to kind of put her to shame whatever like if I'm playing devil's advocate on on certain things because I like it's Hollywood and there's so many

entertainment and music and movies and granted it's a different time because the Me Too movement and such, people take him more serious. At the same time, a lot of people still get away with shit all the time, you know? And I really do think, like, yeah, this would have followed him. This would have followed him, but he was already on a rebound in a lot of ways if he just stuck true to his career. You know, like it seems like he really cared. At least that's the way it perceived to me because he was still doing movies. He did get Grindlewald, you know, like he did have films coming up.

Pirates Five still came out and didn't make a billion dollars, but it still made a lot of money. And it's like there was enough, this is the most his truth has been out there. This is the, like all these things that are being headlines and clipped out and actually making the news, that's been out there for years. And it's only now because of the trial that it's in the mainstream media. so that helps him out because I think at least in the court of public opinion he's definitely won so many more people over

what were you talking about there was something you said he said a lot of thoughts and so there's trying to do that thing where I was making a lot of mental notes and I was like oh no lost most of them is about Johnny Depp in the court of public opinion generally no no no it was something else about her I'm not like I

was literally sitting watching the testimony of her and going, why, why don't I really believe her? And I think there's another, there are things I'm questionable about for sure. Like, especially with something that is not in the trial, but is, uh, it was making its way on social media, but I guess it might count as hearsay or some shit. Objection. Yeah. Is, um, her, you see, you're talking about like Johnny Depp's stories and they're and they're both painting each other not in the greatest light like yeah Johnny Depp when he testifies he has stories that go in there that don't paint him in the greatest light but then when I hear the I want to say but however however

when I hear the like the audio recordings and such it still sounds like this is the same guy who's testifying do you know what I mean yeah even even at the even when you get him like saying something horrible. It still sounds like, no, this lines up with the same guy. Doesn't seem like he's painting a false image. He doesn't feel like he's orchestrating, yeah. Yeah, the skeptic in me will go, Johnny Depp is an amazing actor. That's where the skeptic in me comes out, right? Maybe he just really knows what he's doing. And, uh, it based my testimony on Keith Richards. No, it seems, it seems really consistent and he has a big reputation, uh, for being. being a certain type of individual to others.

So it lines up still even with the stuff that doesn't paint him as well in a good light that came out during when it was really his time with his witnesses and such. Whereas with Amber Heard, she really paints herself as like super duper innocent. Like so innocent, not the aggressor. She's like such a victim. And he was this monstrosity. like it's such the antithesis it's such a wild antithesis to there's like no gray area with her you know yeah and her and the story she's telling that you'm like this doesn't at all

like this just seems to contradict so much of the the testimonials we've heard the audios we've heard all these things and the other part of me does go to like with the we will talk about some other stuff but the when it comes to the the the acts of violence of like these just sheer like it's insane what she is describing just insane what she this this horrific it's horrific and there are people who really suffer that and worse and sometimes leads to death these are real things that she is described like terrible terrible things and And, like, if she's telling the truth, then good on her, you know, she's telling the truth, then good. The part of me that makes me doubtful is when I'm like, how come there's, like, she clearly would take videos and photos of him, like, if he passed out, he's got a little bit of a temper tantrum right now.

We're in an argument. Let me record this as a way to have something on him to expose him in case. And it made me go, well, why, why don't she have, like, any photos of this? Sometimes when she's describing incidents, like a big part of this whole ordeal is, you know, the photos that did become famous where she, when she got the restraining order and she was all bruised. And then she, like, went on a talk show. I think it was cordon, like, the next day. And after that, the day of that supposed beating. And then she, she was fine.

Like, like, no one saw anything on her. like a lot went to go that was fake what she did that was there's so much to support that that was fake so when she's describing this this guy you know it's it makes me questionable of how come there's not like when we're talking about domestic violence or sexual assault it's it's so hard the reason why it's so hard for women especially it is because it's it's so hard to like get the perfect crime that is documented and videotaped and recorded in order to prove your point. You know, it's really, it's so, it's so hard. So that's the thing that she can lean on, that that's why I'm bringing up all these

other things that she documented. So how come, and the thing is so much of this is so volatile and emotional that I'm talking about kind of a logical way of thinking when a lot of the time in toxic relationships, logic is thrown out of the window. Like, logically, they should have broken up a long time ago. The toxicity is there to mask the logic. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, you hear about the way they started their relationship. Like, both of their testimonies line up of they were both coming off of the heels. Like Johnny Depp was still with his girlfriend, according to his testimony. And, you know, she, I think was in the middle of a divorce or separation, something of that nature. So they're both coming off the heels. And ideally, when you're in a. a relationship that's ending, you want to be single for a while so you can heal and grieve from that, from such a commitment of that life partner that you had. And then go into relationship.

So when you have that talks, whatever, whatever negativity has brewed up in you with that relationship, ideally you want to get over that first so you don't bring it into your next relationship. Yeah. And it sounds like this was destined from the get-go to be something that was oftentimes people mistake toxicity for passion and some people think you need those fights yeah to keep you guys in a gravitational pull or something like that and yeah you have a situation that began out of I'm going to assume some level of trauma you know two relationships dissolving

a new one coming out of that dissolution but also between two people with as this trial is well established a lot of history of abuse in child childhood in their younger lives, and I definitely believe that those things can harmonize later on and can bring something, you know, out of people. And yeah, I mean, to go back to what, to what you said, like, that's the main, like, I guess I sympathize in a way I hesitate to pick one team because the quote always comes back to me that there are three sides to any story. There's mine, yours, and the truth. and I feel like the truth always has to be somewhere in between and yeah the big thing about Amber heard to me is that there are aspects of what she's willing to give up that don't seem to ring as true as what Johnny's willing to give up it seems like his testimony he was pretty much they constantly asked him if they're reading his words correctly half of those words are pretty you know unpleasant and he's always just like yeah you yeah you did so there is a certain willingness I think to accept some of that behavior. But the problem is the deeper I dig, the more I'm like, well, that could be a tactic.

You know, you admit to some smaller things so that you can deny the bigger thing. Or, you know, there's so many gray areas to play at and to look at. And yeah, I think ultimately the problem for me in just going, Johnny, that must be right, is the fact that for a lot of these situations, he is allegedly on many a substance. And I just believe that things happen when you're unaware. of yourself. So I can't fully discredit the idea that Amber Heard could be telling the truth. And I know that it's really hard for people in her position, which is what worries me the most. Because

if she is truly being fraudulent in these claims and is being the sociopath, the court of public opinion has deemed her, that's bad. Like, that's bad for the future. That's bad for, like, that could set a precedent that can set the whole movement. And I know the Me Too movement is very contentious for people and a lot of people don't really like it and I feel like something like this could easily set the progress made by something like that back

really heavily or call further into doubt like I get what people struggle with in the argument of like we believe all women immediately but at the same time to me it's sort of like there better be some really extreme circumstances as to how these falsehoods were

contrived basically because again, it just seems, to my moral compass, it's about the most vile thing you can do to fabricate something like this and then to draw it out into this kind of circus. So a part of me...

Even like Amber Hurd's ex-assistant came out talking about how Amber heard... This is before the trial. Stole her sexual assault story. I mean, if that's true, that's disgusting. That's absolutely disgusting. Because the problem is that it's really hard,

for a lot of women out there I don't speak from experience but I have seen the experiences of just friends alone No, that's what's so angering That's what's angering about it If it is indeed If she is not telling the truth

It's just that's that's the part of I think the thing is Is that the thing Like you do got to take a side That that's not saying you have to I'm saying like that's how the public On like social media makes you one feel Yeah

Like you have to take a side You know Because in this court case, like with Johnny Depp, even if it was reactionary abuse, right, even if it was reactionary, if he did indeed, like, fight back in any way or hit back, it's that it was going to, that could take him down in this specific legal case. A lot of people will defend him that in this legal case, that's bad news for Johnny Depp. That could really result in him losing. So the part of it that I think Johnny Depp owns up to is like being at times emotionally abuse. I don't know if he's actually declared it.

He's talked about being like emotionally and verbally abusive. Even if it is reactionary abuse, it still is in that category. That's demonstrably evident by the videos and the tapes that they show. Like, yeah, there's definitely toxicity and abuse in these. rooms with these two people yeah where where I'm not I'm not trying to see like to give there's this one part that really casts a lot of doubt when it came to for me on it terms of the Johnny Depp side there is this like text message that let me see if I could find it really quick I'll just read it because I think it is important and I don't think it might be

brought up in the trial I I haven't seen it brought up in the trial yet, but I do think it's an important thing to bring up where she was talking with, here it is, I found it, it's been going around online, Johnny Depp's ex-assist and Steven Dutters to Amber Hurd, where Amber told the story on, in a testimony recently about getting kicked by Johnny Depp when he was drugged up. And Stephen said, I think he's just texted you. He's incredibly apologizing. And know that he has done wrong. He wants to get better now.

He's been very explicit about that this morning. Feels like we're at a critical juncture. She says, yes, but I don't know how to be around him after what he did to me yesterday. I don't know if I can stay with him. These are private text messages. He wants, and Stephen says, he wants to see you so much, he's distraught. Amber says, don't worry about the flights. I'll be taking care of them myself.

Thank you. Look, he thinks he doesn't deserve this. Obviously, he has no idea what he did or to the extent that he did it, if someone was truly honest with them about how bad it really was he'd be appalled the man and definitely wouldn't say to me that he doesn't deserve it i'm sad he doesn't have a better way to really know the severity of his actions yesterday unfortunately for me i remember in full detail everything that happened and this is the kicker i have no pun intended bad terrible choice of words terrible choice that's unintentional gentic he was this is stephen says he was appalled when i told him he kicked you he

cried. It was disgusting and he knows it. I wasn't with him. This is where it's cut off though. Oh, of course. I wasn't with him when he, and then it's cut off. So I don't know what the rest of that sentence is. When he apologized and made everything right again. Or I wasn't with him when

he did it or something, you know. But this is like way before any of this other stuff was like really coming out. This is like still when they were like, no, let's make this relationship work. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, and to think, too, I mean, there's the evidence of this case alone, but I remember you way back, like sort of absorbing and being sent even more, you know, stuff in the past.

Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's a moment like that. Like, that's a pretty interesting thing to me. And that's, again, the major gray area for me with Johnny Depp is like generally just the way it strikes me, the way people's accounts go. Yeah, it seems like he is a sweet, genuine, probably very caring guy when he's aware. I know people that know him and and I also am very cautious of my bias that I could have simply because I love the actor Johnny Depp. I love the, yeah.

And I, even when I thought, even before all this happened and I thought his career was going weird and down, I was always rooting and would always watch the trailer if he was in it. You know, I was always curious, I'm always curious to see what he's doing. Like, I'm always fascinated by him. He's the star of my very favorite movie. Yeah. And several of my other favorite movies. Yeah, he is a talent that I've always admired, and I've loved watching interviews with him, you know.

And I've wanted to be like. I've wanted to be like. Yeah, yeah. He's that kind of dude that you would see. You're just like, he just seems so cool. Goals. Guys like him, women like him. And he doesn't seem like an ego maniacal dude.

He just seems like he really doesn't. give a shit and he's like cool and calm yeah yeah absolutely and and has these fun idiosyncrasies that I just admire you know and I there's this story and not to

make things much much worse every great story starts that way that it's not being brought up because I believe here's what I'll say I full heartedly believe Johnny Depp is telling his version of the truth that's how it appears

Even in these text messages, right, that I just read, he's, there's nothing of, the account is he doesn't, if he did it, he certainly doesn't remember it. And when being told he did it, he broke down crying. You know, that feels like it tracks. It feels more like if he did do something, he wasn't full, he wasn't, he didn't, he did it. Oh, fucking, what's the fucking word? He was inebriated. Yeah, he was inebriated. Yeah.

He wasn't in control or aware of his full faculties. Yeah, like if he did do it, but that's how it strikes. I mean, that would be absolutely diabolical if it were to come out that, you know, this is all an act on his side. Yeah, I mean, from him, I mean, it's still abuse, but it certainly seems as though the danger with Johnny Depp is more, is he hopped up? Is he coping, you know, with toxic substances and whatnot? that leading to these retaliations and these outbursts these these lashings out so to speak yeah like i remember years ago there was this he told the story on inside the actor's studio with james lipton i'm not finding it there's like a two-minute there's like a two-minute thing that he was

talking about about being bullied specifically being bullied and his mother who obviously played a big influence into his development like anyone who's around their mom growing up if they would but in terms of his trauma of explanation as to why he would be attracted to such a relationship his mother played a big part and he used to paint

he wouldn't talk about this side of his mother until this trial and all this shit versus on inside the actor's studio he was telling a story about being bullied and if I remember correctly you could probably find it and you could correct me if I get any of this wrong if I remember correctly

the story he was telling was that if they start bullying you, take the rock and either threaten them or hit them with it. And then he said after he did one of those, I'm not going to say which one he did because I simply don't remember if he just threatened with it or actually hit them. I don't remember. But he said he did that and they never bother him again. So he's learned to like, that's how he deals with bullies. Granted, this interview was years ago. He's in his 50s about the time he married Amber Hurd people.

people grow and like i feel like i'm a different person every two to three years i might look back on this conversation in two to three years maybe even a week from now or like depending on how this all goes and and and be like oh man you know i actually think very differently than i did then not just about the subject just about life in general and so you know to take something someone said like 20 years ago and apply it you know that's that's why i think a lot of it's like silly to bring up, you know, like in 1998, you do this, you know, or something. Yeah, I'm like, he's probably a completely different person. Yeah, it's like you can draw something from that, but also I feel like the passage of time needs

the credit that it's due. At the same time, this sentiment that like he didn't abuse these other people, so why would he do this now? And I'm like, fair, true, if he didn't, that he didn't harm them. Same time, this is a different relationship. That was then. Yeah, this is a different relationship coming off of one that was ending badly and clearly with someone who I do for, I do believe was the main main one to provoke the main aggressor, the main initiator, Amber, who they have audio of them directly of him saying like, you start physical fights. You start these fights.

And she's like, yeah, I start these fights because you're, you won't engage with me unless I hate you, you know. So that's just like it's pretty much an admission of guilt on theirs that she is the aggressor. She's the star. So, you know, that that's why I think a lot of people believe that many, that where Johnny Depp comes from is reactionary abuse. That's why I keep saying that word because he's not, he would, he wouldn't just instigate this or start this, you know. And she seems easily provoked. Yeah. And she's got abandonment issues, man.

Like, I get it. I get. I understand. The, like, it's, it's, I'm saying as I understand, not that I, I don't sympathize with the choice and actions. I don't want that to be misconstrued. I do understand abandonment issues very well, though. And to, um, have a histrionic personality disorder. I'm not that well versed in it.

But see, there's the other. I know I'm like a zipsathing around here. No. That's the other part was that the Dr. Curry person who testified talked about how, I think she was saying she believed in Amber Heard has histrionic personality disorder. And a lot of the symptoms of why she said that is shown during her testimony. Like a lot of the things that she described are there. And I wasn't even thinking about that on the surface.

Someone did, I saw this was a thing I did see on social media of someone clipped out the part where she because I listened to a testimony and I kind of forgot about all that because there's absorbing this whole thing and then I and then I and I listen to it again and then I continued watching the Amber her testimony I'm like yeah this is all there so I forgot my the original thing I was talking about before the historic personality disorder well and abandonment issues and abandonment like a lot of things that like fall into I'll fall into this category that the actions of that are described with this individual that are caused on recordings and such do seem that way of someone who does suffer from from this damage and then when I watch like a testimony and it doesn't ring sincere but you were saying something that I'm like that's all that that could potentially be a fair point of she must be aware that the the public is not in her favor so she might be working extra hard to sell

the story. Yeah, and the burden of this particular trial is basically on her to prove that her account is correct beyond a shadow of a doubt. And so, like she might be telling the truth, but she might be playing up the emotions and being more animated. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, you know. And like, I really need a cry. Yeah, like, I don't know how law show to take this. But yeah, I mean, it's got to be really strange and uncomfortable for any person to do what is essentially a open public therapy session, where you, you know, you tear open all the wounds. And I mean, I know, where this, where it depends on a few people, strangers, determining whether or not you are telling, you are sincere. Yeah. And whether or being truthful. Yeah. And whether the abuse that at least

you have experienced yourself or that you, you know, feel as part of your reason for being here, you know, is, is either legitimized or delegitimized based. on, you know, those decisions and what those people have to say. And so as much as there are body language experts out there, I've seen just as many videos in my life about body language experts just nailing people. And then the flip side where people go, yes, but there are like so many things that influence. I don't know, Beth. You could have kept talking.

Oh, sorry, yeah. Didn't want you to miss a minute. Um, but yeah, like, there's so many factors that contribute to body language. And yeah, like they certainly could be indicative of her being disingenuous on the stand. But I feel like especially she, to me, she is the loneliest person in that room no matter what because she has to defend this really horrific account, which if it's true has to be emotionally difficult to say the least. And if it's not true, it's got to be just as difficult in a totally other way. that requires way more mental, spiritual, awful coordination. Well, I mean, you have, they have these videos of, like,

what it's like when Johnny Depp shows up to court, and fans are like, yippee, Johnny, I love you, Justice. And then Amber shows up, and it's not welcoming. It's not, it's not, it's not, you know, roll out the carpet for her, you know. Yeah, it's not like there's a team Amber that's just as vocal. And then people who want to like attend the trial, a lot of them in the background who are sitting there. I don't know, but they kind of read like some of them are Johnny Depp fans. Well, and they've had to calm them down or else kick them out.

Yeah, yeah, the judges had to say that. Well, I think there's a pretty good job that the judge is trying to keep this even and moving along as best as you can. Well, yeah, it's because like, you know, if I, even though I have a really hard time like buying the sincerity of Amber Heard's testimony because, and I did write, like I listened to the clip and I put down things that stood out to me that Dr. Curry said of like overly dramatic presentation. It's like the way she recounts stories sound like a, like a, someone put it to me. me like a romance novel. Lots of embellied. Yeah. Impressionistic speech.

Very flowery. Feels like it often lacks any substance. The big part is quick shift between emotions. Like she'll do the face that like really like the crying face, like trying to cry. And then she could just switch out of it. It's bizarre. It is bizarre of just like this like like like. it's not even like a recovery

you know of it it's it's like a whoa like it's like someone yelled cut yeah and then I guess someone like objects or something yeah yeah so then are we to believe

that those are decisions or are those just how she express I don't know it's like I've met people who in just regular life who kind of meet that criteria the pain in the audio tapes not when they're like

Like, I didn't hit you, Johnny, but like when she is divulging pain, again, you know, it's like, look, I don't think she's a talented of an actress as Johnny and when she's, you know, like it is the thing of all these, we're trying to factor in like all the possible different circumstances. If we are to, obviously, I pretty much have an opinion on her. And I go, okay, let me assume now that she's telling the truth of why. might have a hard time believing her if she is telling the truth yeah um i do want to get into that bottle story uh i do i do i do i do want to because that's like that's the one i'm i am the most like trepidious to to touch uh at the same time there there are things i've heard on both sides and i'm like well let me talk about that but what was it you're talking about i keep forgetting my thought my train of thought we were talking about her personality traits and the way

she portrays emotions and things like that and her instigating things in the tapes. Oh yeah, oh yeah, the tapes she sounds sincere but that's a different environment than what she's had to do with pretty much two weeks of being told all these, like

she must go online and see how people respond. She fired her PR team in the middle of this trial. No, she has to know. She knows. I mean she's because she's been living with this longer than the trial. It's constantly reported on how many signatures are on that remove Amber Heard from Aquaman 2

petition, which has been up since before this trial well before. Yeah, yeah. So like that's why it's like she like the best case I can give her is if she is telling the truth she's having a hard time

because she feels she has to put up a certain type of one woman show in order to try to sell them like keep looking directly at the jury like really you know cheat your body connect with them yeah yeah tell them and it does seem like over the top but but i can't even as someone who doubts the the validity of some of a lot of what she talks about it i can't say i'm like i've met people who are really dramatic well and that to me contributes to this she's from she's an

actress in L.A. Yeah, well. For crying out loud. That's the first thought I had. The first thought I had was I feel like I'm watching an actor do a monologue and acting class.

It was like it felt like acting class time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. See, that's the thing is I can see it and I don't have a good like conclusion based on it. I'm like, I can see what you're talking about. And there are elements of the way that she

You know, it's like you watch Johnny Depp on the stand and he's very much just like super chill and just answering questions occasionally laughing. Whereas, yeah, she is there to prove a point, which to be fair, I mean, she is there to prove a point. Yeah, it really makes me wonder because if it is just that her personality is that way and, you know, she's up here giving a testimony, then of course that's going to be consistent with how her personality is. And if that's all true, then she must be sharing her side of the truth. She must believe what she's saying, I guess is what I imagine if, again, we can trust that account of her psychology, because then you hear these tapes and you can hear, yeah, some instances of like, yeah, it sounds like she's in pretty much peril in this recording or whatever.

Yeah, again, it's one of those things where I feel like in certain, ways they're probably both telling what they think is true and I can't I don't know it feels to me like there are two teams the Johnny Depp's team is people who love Johnny Depp and I feel like Amber Heard's team is mostly people who care about assault victims not people who really care that much about Amber Heard and so that's what makes me I think there's I think Johnny Depp has a lot in his camp more like that I think there's the Johnny Depp super fans and I and I also think there are people who do suffer domestic violence and believe him. Even I believed Amber Heard at first.

Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, I don't not believe 100% of the things she said just because, again, looking at all this evidence and looking at the situation, clearly there is abuse between two people happening. And I think what they are trying to do is figure out who the primary abuser was. And that's just a nasty, nasty task. I was about figuring out if Johnny Depp defended himself or attacked her. I don't think there's a way to truly know that.

No, you can't. No, you can't. It's hard. It's like you choose to believe. You have to choose to, you choose what you believe. That's why I always say this is what I believe. You know, like I'm choosing what I believe here. Yeah.

Because not one of them goes, I mean, depending on the subject. but like I haven't heard John Depp in a private conversation ever say like I hit you because I was defending myself although there was that thing

with like the toes and like having to get away so we accidentally hurt her yeah and the whole headbutt thing yeah yeah and the door on her feet yeah

yeah so there's that and then the biggest discreditor of Amber Hurd for me is that is the recording are those recordings where she's basically saying Like, yeah, I start these fights for this reason, and I didn't hit you, I hit you this way, and your response is invalid because of this.

Well, then you hear all that, and you hear her testify, and then the testimony seems a little bizarre. Yeah, that's, you go, I don't know if I could believe you. For me, that's the most telltale and the stickiest detail. Like, that's the thing that keeps me coming back to, at least her side of this and going, something doesn't feel quite on the level here, and I can't really tell. Well, the bottle incident, I mean, look it up. I don't want to like fully recount it. It does what a lot of, I've heard some people say like logically, this is what I mean.

They don't say the words logically, but that's what everyone's implying is logically if Johnny Depp did do that bottle incident, wouldn't she want to go to the hospital and get that checked out? she could have suffered injuries from that there could be an infection there's a lot of things yeah logically at the same time a big problem is many people especially like in you know marital situations even non-marital they don't go to the hospital they don't get checked out they don't report it like there's a there's it's it's it's a very very common so i so i'm like yeah of course logically you should but I'm not going to be here being like here's why I don't believe that didn't happen it because of the logic of not getting that checked out logic is always a bad place to turn in assault cases I think we've we've had too many accounts now not to realize that

like yeah you don't necessarily behave logically when these things happen and especially something is intimate and and I don't know like you got to feel embarrassed and violated in a myriad of ways after a situation like that that probably wouldn't make a lot of people actually want to go seek out like let me go find people in public and deal with this you know yeah I mean even when like giant F got his finger cut off

like he lied and said that he did it and I mean according to his testimony keep Amber's name out of it yeah you know and so it's like if Amber Hurd's going there I'm like here's what happened you know there's that fear and there's a lot of reasons I could justify as to

why she didn't go too if that did happen. Yeah, and I mean, I feel like if there's also a position to be like, okay, I got a piece of my finger sliced off, but we're going to protect her still, I feel like that's also indicative of a situation in which those kinds of things might be a little more common than you. Like if that was a first time offense and that was the crossing of a line, I don't know if that would be the response. It could be. But it feels to me more indicative of a toxic scenario where things like this actually do kind of happen. this was an extreme case, but, you know, things like this do happen with us. Yeah. No, they, it's just such a heavy accusation.

Yes. And regardless. And if that is not the truth, in a lot of ways, that doesn't matter for a lot of people, because a lot of people already believe it, you know? If it's not the true, I mean, if it's not, like, that is among the most vile things you can do is fabricate a scenario like that. See, I keep going back to how she testifies. I keep going back to that.

That's part of it. Because the thing is, we've seen, like, countless people testify at this point. And she's a very specific type of person when she's testifying, and a lot of it seems to be looking at the jury for approval on a lot of her behaviors. There is this one moment that people are saying she posed for a photo, like with a tissue. and usually when I hear that I'm like that sounds like a reach then when I watch it I'm like

god damn it really does seem I am likely to believe that she because you see her like put the tissue on look up hold still click and then go you hear the click of the camera and then go away

and then I'm like and sure not that's the photo yeah I mean if she especially she replaced her PR team I mean you know she's a way of things like that and part of me but the sympathetic side of me goes well that's smart because you know that

that's one of the assets that you especially need to play into but at the same time it is a contrivance you know it is a bit disingenuous if that is in fact the case yeah uh it rings like I don't I don't know where to land

on that it doesn't ring at least like a genuine like I'm just wiping a tear like that bottle story is so horrific and for someone to say like where's the evidence i'm like i i i would say get out of here with that it's really hard to if that's a private moment it's really hard to just be like well why don't you take photos like you can't just say that to someone you know you can't when you're in that position you take photos and the thing is that subject that story in

particular it's like again if that is the truth then bravery for sharing that and doing this if that is not the truth it is such an evil manipulative thing to do to people who are watching this she knows people are watching this terrible to do the giant death you know and and terrible to do giant debt but there are there are like I said there are individuals who have had instances like that and worse and consistently in domestic partnerships that would then that that makes them immediately like you would just believe that person like there are people who would just instantly believe that there are people though who have been in those situations who don't believe her though for that case and not just because they're Johnny Depp's your fans because they'll be like well

here's a lot of things of why this doesn't sound real and it's and a lot of it comes down to the way she paints it yeah you know I mean you gotta help yourself just as much as any of the other witnesses have you know but on your side have to help you it's like she kind of talks like the issue I have and I know it sounds like I'm making a joke

it the issue I have when I was trying to read Tarantino's once upon a time in Hollywood book okay that would flip between telling like okay sometimes this book sounds like a novel most of the time he's writing the the non-dial log scenes like action lines in a script yeah yeah yeah like it doesn't seem like she's really rick I don't know really like reliving a memory yeah it it sounds made it's it's like oh

sometimes it reads to me that you remember breaking bad when walter white made that fake confession yes about Hank in the last season yeah sometimes it reads like that but a worse performance than that like you know um so yeah it's so hard to tell it's so hard to tell because yeah i can't sometimes things just come out awkward and stiff or some people aren't very good at acting yeah obviously we're trying to be a little bit fair here i think compared to 99% of the discourse we've entertained both sides pretty well. Because I don't know.

Ultimately, justice for somebody, justice. It's so hard. Here, let me, I'll end it with this. The trial's not done. There's more to come.

There's counter. I'm blanking on so many words for a discussion video. Like counter depositions? No, no, no, no. Cross examination. Yeah, yeah, there's cross examination. This cross examination,

there's more to come out you know and this was the first time I've ever really list like let's listen to Amber Hurd talk and I went in with an open mind and as much as I I just remember hearing her to cry

and be like let me pull up my phone and look at this I don't know man yeah yeah it's tough there are certain things that you should just never do Like, there's a certain percentage of this where I'm just like, it's just two people who are really abusive towards each other. Although there are certain allegations where I'm just like, that's something no person should ever do and be allowed to just maintain their happy life from, you know, if some of these, you know, nastier allegations are true.

So, I mean, for me personally, I don't feel like I'll ever know the answer. And I'm probably going to remember this whenever I think of either of them from now on. but yeah it's going to keep unfolding and then there's going to be another trial in the fall so we'll have this to relive again get ready for Christmas with Amber Hurd and Johnny Depp

yeah I don't know I like I can't discredit her entirely because I think there's a zealousness that people have in doing so and I think it's a bit dangerous for the overall discourse for that to happen but I think there are a lot of legitimate there's a lot of legitimate skepticism I think about how she's approaching this

and you're leading into this trial and even before these trials were a thing she didn't have always the best reputation on a personal level not to say that Johnny's wife and stuff yeah and you know that is what it is the past as we said for Johnny Depp the past is the past

you know now is what we're talking about but at the same time you know I don't want to fully, I can't be a good conscience. She had just she was in the transition process of leaving that relationship and then went right into this one. Yeah, no, that's

never, that is rarely a recipe for a good relationship. So I'm saying if she was that person in that relationship then I'm like, I don't think she's like changed. Yeah, yeah. Not not just getting into this relationship. Now I'm a whole new person. Yeah, totally. And I mean, you can see too things where people

who start out really all about each other as they described like, oh man, I It's obsession. Yeah, and like you said, passion can often be driven by a certain kind of dysfunction and a certain kind of pain. And I feel like more than anything else we've learned here, it's just that these two people harmonized pain and trauma and got a lot more of it in the process. But even when she's testifying, and maybe this is just a smart choice on Johnny Debson, he does not watch her. He does not look up at her. That was the thing.

And I'm like for hours to be that committed. too, like, hurting your neck and back because you just refuse to look up at your abuser. Yeah. That... It's interesting. See, again, it's... Whereas she just, like, looks at him coldly. Like, this, like, weird mannequin

look that she has. I was watching it. Yeah, you watch her during all of his testimonies, and for the most part, she's very still, and then occasionally we'll get that verge of tears' face and then kind of oscillate between the two. It's whole trial seems like she's been trying to cry and just can't quite get there. Yeah.

I can't tell if it's somebody who's too exhausted to cry or somebody who's really trying to cry. When you're making that face for hours and hours on end, I'm talking about him when she's testifying, you'd think a real tear would. A couple streams might come out a little bit. You would imagine after a couple of weeks at this, yeah, the emotional toll has to weigh. Yeah, there'd have to be a little bit of like, I'm finally talking, you know. But then again, I mean, the other thing is. But then it might be so bottled up and repressed. They've already tested.

She's already had to testify this stuff once and live for months with just this whole situation. I'm sure absorbing her life. So again, the problem for me is I can never get to a thing where I'm like a hundred percent, nah, nah, you know. I understand. At this current moment, I have a really hard time believing her. I do. And I'm mainly going off of, yeah, I already had an opinion. but then watching

and nor am I saying Johnny Depp's a fucking saint you know but so yeah like the image that he's painted of her sounds like a weird choice to say a choice of words to say

painted with my finger but it sounds like a fair portrayal of what he believes to be his abuser she is describing something

I get what you mean you know what I mean the appearance definitely does feel that way so that's which makes me even more doubtful like you're you're trying too hard but I don't know maybe like for all I know she might whip something out next week and I'm like holy shit I take back everything yeah it's not over till it's over and it's probably not over then either you know they they have to this is this is a sales pitch to the jury it is 100% you you can't And one of the biggest things is you've got to plant the seed, which you got to do in a court trial is you plant the seed to, so that way when the people start coming up defending the individual,

you're doubting it. But you have to really bring it home in the end. Yeah, yeah, you got to put the stamp on it. It's like there's more audio. There's more shit. There's so much more shit. Yeah. They could have just like, let me just dump all this in the beginning.

But they didn't do that. You got to spread it out, you know? You got to build the narrative. You got to build to the finale, you know. And that's the impression you're going to be left with. Yeah. Because you've got to convince 10 people of your side. Yeah.

How many, how many people are you're trying? 12 usually, right? 12, 10, 10, 12 people. Yeah. You know, a baker's dozen. Yeah. I mean, where I am right now is basically that. And like, clearly there was abuse between two people and what I'm dubious about

or what I'm curious as to the legitimacy of is the most extreme claims of like direct abuse that I don't think could have come out of some kind of blackout scenario and unprovoked. You know, like those truly dastardly allegations are the ones I'm most curious about. Because I think, again, I think this well establishes that they abused each other through their relationship for whatever understandable reason or not, you know, I feel like that is true. so I don't really fall on the side of like, no, just Johnny. Fuck it.

You know, like it is a very human, like it gets people very charged for very legitimate reasons. And if I remove myself from the emotion and, you know, the experiences of people I know, it is a fascinating just experiment to peer in on in terms of, you know, psychology and sociology. Well, it's not like, it's because the reason why it's so one.

side it. I mean, A, I'm always The thing I'm constantly bitching about is how there seems to be a lack of gray with any subjects in this world. You gotta choose one. And once you've chosen, you can never un-chews that. You can never act on new information. And you will be judged

from your previous belief. Yeah. It's like, you know, like this seems to be such a hypocrisy with the idea of growth and change. Like, you should. And then when you do, No, uh, you're in hell.

You can never make the right decision. Yeah, so it's a pain in the, it's a pain in the ass. So, uh, well that's my god, it's happening again, there was, there's a point, there's something about, oh, what were you just saying? Yeah, this is we get cut out during all the edits. Uh, you just the shadow of a doubt stuff, the sort of like the biggest, the biggest, the biggest most damning allegations uh something about them be abusive or something like that to me the truth of the matter right now is that at very least it seems evident to they both were abusive toward

each other for various reasons and i just don't know if the most vile and the most sort of clearly victim and aggressor ones are the truth see i can believe a scenario, this is where you piss off the world, I can believe a scenario of giant up being so inebriated that he doesn't remember doing it. I absolutely believe that's possible. I've seen it happen in life. He's a bit of a rock and roll star, you know? Yeah.

Even though in his testimony, he is saying like he doesn't ever get to that point where he doesn't, you know, and like those photos were, those photos I don't think are condemned. damning, damning evidence. I don't believe they are condemning. I'm like, he's passed out. Do you see the way that ice cream hit his lap? He's got a crazy lifestyle. He's that weird hours, you know? Yeah. I've fallen asleep in this room. Yeah. This very room I've fallen asleep in, just like at a computer. And I'm like, oh, God, I just dozed off. I'll edit it. Yeah, like, 100%, you know. And you're a drunk and an addict for doing so.

Yeah. Um, yeah. I, I don't think, uh, I really don't believe though that he's I could be wrong he doesn't seem like a malicious guy he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would get emotional to the point he would strike you right doesn't seem as though the only way I could believe he would like might have hit it was if he was that inebriated and it wasn't a fight either that or or in a situation where there are already hands being thrown or something yeah or something Yeah, where he was already been provoked, you know. I don't know.

Like, it's weird. And this is a, we, we broach. You kind of end this, but it's not, that's what I mean. It's a never ending talk. Well, yeah. And that's why there's channels who have committed their lives to doing. Yeah, no, you can just make, you could, because there's so much to the human nuance in the weird gray areas and, and two, the fact that we're zooming in and focusing in on little details way more than you do under normal circumstances. And those can cause those details to understand.

unfold or to suggest things that you might not have seen and also too there's the bias of what are you looking for because you might just find what you're looking for rather than what is actually happening you know like there's there's so much to it and it's really fascinating because while it's created this very polar division it's like to me a very unpolarized situation when you really dig deep into it and yeah i feel like yeah like something could have happened where if he was black out sure which is its own thing that should have consequences that should be dealt with it's not saying it did that's not right here saying he did do that saying like that's the scenario i could believe that's what they prove that you know that's what seems most likely yeah i mean it seems like it would have had to have happened at some point but i don't uh i don't know i don't land on this. Yeah. But this is why I don't do, we don't do, like, daily videos.

We don't want to make the channel about this. No. But it's something that, you know, is a part of entertainment media now. This is why, you know, that thing that Drew Barry, and you see that thing that Drew Barrymore had to frigging apologize for talking with Anthony Anderson about the trial. Oh, no. And she was talking.

She was pretty much the language and the description of her experience was talking about it in a way that's like entertainment and which rub people the wrong way yeah because it shouldn't be it's become that it's a circus but it shouldn't be entertainment it shouldn't be but I think too for millions

of people it certainly is for millions of people this is the best TMZ episode you could ask for you could go on TikTok and you'll see a ton of people just being like get him a popcorn ready you know like That Michael Jackson gift has to be everywhere. This is a, this is a, this is a source of, this has become a main source of entertainment. And like, like I said, I could, I could, I could be here every day without John because I like, I keep up to date with this.

And I really listen, I don't just listen to clips, you know, like I'm really paying attention. No, yeah, whenever, whenever I go to examine the trial, I'm like, where's that seven hour live stream? Let me put this on 1.75 speed. Yeah, you can see my red mark and where I'm at and I'm catching up too because we show the same account. So, yeah.

You're watching on law and crime? You're on crime networks. Maybe I'll switch to them. I've been on NBC. Maybe the coverage is what pops up for me. That's what I use. Yeah, like it's a really fascinating thing and people are eating it up like a form of entertainment.

And even people got to be honest about that. even before you know people who are taking this serious like it's really hard for me to come on here and just make jokes about this and like just do like funny meme reactions and shit like that because I think to be able to do that you have to have a

conclusion you have to feel like you know or a lot of people feel like they know or have a distance from it yeah you know like these people don't really matter to me ha ha like I want to make jokes about Ezra Miller if I was seeing videos of him

throwing a chair out of woman and damaging her face yeah you know and so now it's making me i mean i don't think i made jokes in that video but but i'm not making light of that scenario no no um that's the i don't know i'm trying to use a different example did make jokes about will smith that was stupid though that's not the same that's it's a different this is a different thing yeah yeah you know it's a very that's a radio this subject there's a there's a there's a ladder And the slappinging is rung one. It's not the biblical times of every sin is equal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Must be judged. But, I mean, it's fascinating and engrossing, but it more just makes me sad than like, oh, fun, you know. It's not entertainment. I don't think this is, am I amused and entertained by it? Of course I am. I think a lot of us are. Oh, yeah, my moment.

same time i wouldn't i wouldn't necessarily use the words that's how it's charles fucking boring a shit right it's like a drama that happens to be funny on occasion because life is occasionally funny it's like yeah johnny depp will make a remark that's kind of a zinger and it's funny but yeah at the same time the situation at hand is very it's it's you get invested you know it's like it's engrossing you know all you people who watch like true crime documentaries who want to be like, it's not entertaining. And I'm like,

okay, let's look up your Netflix account and see if you're like, murders are, yeah. Murders are less messed up than

inter-personal relationship violence. All right. Like, which are arguably might be true. And then the one thing we didn't touch on is the subject too of like men who suffer domestic violence.

Yeah, which is a thing that is like, there are men who laugh at this subject. Mm-hmm. Like she hit you, so what? Don't be a pussy, you know? Which, I mean, and Johnny Depp coming from the family of, with an abusive, a mother who apparently abused his father and is triggering. Yeah, like.

Like, and it's common, it's much more of an accepted standard for a woman to slap a guy. Like, he was out of line, he messed up, he cheated, or something, like, whatever it is, you know, he was being stupid. That's, that's the realm I don't. I would be curious to hear people who know a lot more than me unpacked. that one because part of me is like well if we do live in this weird in in this equal world you know it's like you shouldn't nobody should hit anybody and you know i i still kind of have that belief from how i you know just the kind of default settings of growing up of like yeah man doesn't hit woman it's just not something you do that's bad as immediate line cross but then i think of these

situations where it's just like two people fighting each other yeah and like it's it's that that's why i guess it comes down to the primary aggressor question because after a certain point, part of me if you isolate the worst allegations and certain other things, it is just sort of like, this is just two toxic people fighting each other. And so if hands were thrown on both sides,

it seems like it cancels out, not that it cancels the actions taken and the harm done by those, but it cancels out like the innocence factor to me where it's just like you're kind of both on that level together and there's, yeah, that view of, Like, well, it's immediately fucked up if it's a man hitting a woman, which, again, I still have that in my DNA, but at the same time, it makes me curious about, like, well, if you just have two people who are fighting back and forth, you know, and you don't know yet who the primary aggressor is, like, what is that situation exactly? Like, if, you know, if a woman is laying into a guy and hitting him a bunch, you know, and he hits back, what are the rules of that?

Like, I'm actually curious to hear some good theory and thought on that because I haven't really. really had to think much about that, you know? I mean, I feel like... My Trina thought is like if she's punching him a punch or something, you got to like push her away or... Or you block or push her away or whatever, you know, like use your foot to like kick her away. But if you're talking about a situation in which a man... Like clock them in the face, like get to get away from me. Yeah, you know, if you are a man in a, I guess to clarify, if you are a man in a, I guess to clarify, if you are a man in a

an abusive situation, for example, and you are being physically harmed in either repeatedly or in a specific incident, what are the rules of that? Like, what are you, you know, what is messed up to, you know, what kind of retaliation or defensive measure is messed up? And I think there's a pretty clear line you can find of when defense transfers when you go too far, you know, and then it's like, whoa, slow down. You know, like now you're, you're flying off the handle. But, you know, in an abusive situation where the male is the victim. Yeah, what, what are the full ethics of that? Missile strike is too far. Yes, yes, yes. You don't launch a missile on the apartment. But yeah, you know, because right there you've lost a fight. Because there's that immediate thing of like if a man hits a woman, that's kind of an immediate like a violent assault.

Like there's something very ugly that naturally comes to that that I don't, you know, take any issue with the response thereof. But, yeah, if it's, you know, if that type of abuse is happening and it's physical abuse towards a man, what are the rules? You know? When are you not fucked up in, yeah, defending physically, I guess. We'll keep a lookout for our Dr. Strange spoiler talk. after this delightful brief sojourn into the real world a lot of our audience is listening to this trial

a lot of everybody's listening to this trial see what else our audience is listening to oh hey they're watching this obscure documentary yeah let's cover that now yeah let's watch some let's do it all some horrific true crime series

react to the dirty details this video is finally done or audio depending on what we decide we did it Aquaman 2 Aquaman 2