The Reel Rejects - MEETING CHRIS STUCKMANN!! Quitting “Bad Reviews” Controversy, Shelby Oaks Journey, & SECRET Reveal!

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

THE STUCKMANIZED INTERVIEW!! From YouTube Critic to Horror Director! Why He Quit Reviewing "Bad" Movies & the Personal Trauma That Inspired SHELBY OAKS. — Greg Alba sits down with Chris Stuckmann for one of our most personal, craft-focused conversations yet. We cover the full journey from YouTube film critic to feature filmmaker, the decision to stop reviewing movies he dislikes (and the rise of “performative mocking” online), and how fatherhood and a former religious background (ex–Jehovah’s Witness) shaped his storytelling. We dig into SHELBY OAKS (theatrical release Oct 24, with early Thurs night shows Oct 23): inspirations like Lake Mungo and Noroi: The Curse, why Japanese horror gets under the skin, M. Night Shyamalan’s influence (faith vs. fear), and how Chris writes with the edit/shot list in mind. Production talk galore: 20-day indie shoot in Ohio, a year of prep, DP Andrew Baird, why the First AC (focus puller) is the unsung set hero, PAs saving the day, and how star Camille Sullivan (Hunter Hunter) elevated scenes so intensely the chest mic captured her heartbeat; plus working with Sarah Durn and Keith David (The Thing, They Live). Industry context: Mike Flanagan producing, NEON distributing, The Newton Brothers scoring, festival reactions (Fantastic Fest, LA premiere), and how being on set changed the way Chris now reads reviews and watches indie films. We also hit fun stuff: Metal Gear Solid directional-mic jokes, Tarantino vs. Scorsese-style self-watching, first horror clips he’ll show his kids (Jaws, Jurassic Park moments), comic-book horror he’d love to tackle (Clayface, Scarface, Scarecrow), and why he still feels like “a guy from Ohio who got it done.” If you’re into horror filmmaking, YouTube career arcs, screenwriting, directing, faith and art, or modern indie distribution, this one’s for you. Intense Suspense by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Follow Us On Socials:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  Tik-Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@reelrejects?lang=en Twitter: https://x.com/reelrejects Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ Music Used In Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Happy Alley by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB:  https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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During the Nissan All-In Clear Out, get 0% financing plus up to $500 bonus on some of our best-selling models. You have zero reasons to wait. Conditions apply. See your local Nissan dealer today. A Reject Nation, as opposed to editing some fancy highlights of what's to come in this interview. I wanted to hop on here and just tell you guys that moments ago I finished having a sit down with Chris Stuckman, and this easily turned into one of my absolute favorite conversations I've ever had here on camera. I was very adamant seeking out this interview, and it turned into something that,

That, of course, goes through process and craft, YouTube, some controversy, fatherhood, a lot of very personal things. I really hope you guys will enjoy this one because I certainly did. His new movie, Shelby Oaks, releases October 24th. At the time of doing this intro, I still have not seen the movie yet. But I'm very excited to see the movie, and maybe I'll have a review up by this time. But that's beside the point. If you're a fan of horror, if you're a fan of Chris Duckman, I really think you'll enjoy this talk. Enjoy.

Oh, by the way, because of your so many interviews, I was like, I guess I have to watch this. I watched Lake Mungo last night. Hell yeah. That is a hell of a film. Yeah. That was engrossing. It felt so real. I hope you feel that way about mine, too.

You kept citing it, and I was like, I guess I got to watch this movie. Yeah. I mean, you get asked what your inspirations are. You got to tell the truth. It's like Mungo and Noroi. Noroy is the one I haven't seen yet. Yeah, that's great too. That's really, I think that movie is even scarier.

It's always done something to me. I watched it like two weeks ago again. Because I'm going to do it for my Halloween special. And I was like, I'm going to rewatch Noroy. Oh my God, it's so good. There's something about Japanese horror that truly gets under my skin. Same, yeah. I don't know what it is.

I mean, I think it's just like a cultural difference in how they look at spirituality. You know, like our, our, in America, our haunted houses are always about noises and loud sounds and bumps. And the way we look at ghosts is slightly different, like, there's, than they do. And there's this really sort of personal approach to how they view that realm. It just feels very different from Western horror. Yeah. Well, I mean, looking at both of us, because with the former religious background you have, the former religious background I have, I have, I do notice religious horror or anything like spiritual, as a lot of people I meet are

like, oh, if it's real, that scares me. And to me, I'm like, actually, the supernatural shit really gets under my skin. So it's the, like with Lake Mongo, the realism of something real, but something supernatural actually terrifies me more, even if I'm not a believer in this stuff anymore. Yeah. And I think it is partially, you know, I mean, as a kid, when I would go to Blockbuster and my parents would literally be like they'd like shield my face like from certain VHS covers like don't look at the exorcist cover or don't you know like don't even touch the tape yeah because something can come home with you they would always say if you show interest in them they'll show interest in you meaning demons and so yeah things like that there was a period um in my early 20s when I left

that religion where it took me a second to like gear up to watch some of those movies for the first time because I did have to kind of detach from that fear of that and just accept it as fiction yeah so I feel you it's hard to accept it as fiction when it's so ingrained to your subconscious I had that with the exorcist too I was told it was sacrilegious to watch it so I was like but I'd still watch it I remember watching it like in the kitchen on a computer when I was like 12 like let me just give it a shot but it did haunt me for a long time yeah do you have are we recording yet We are recording.

So we're starting. I guess we're starting, yeah. These are very sensitive directional mics. You play Metal Gear Solid, right? Oh, yes, I do. Colonel. That's why I learned what directional mics were. Oh, right.

Yes, too. Merrill. I've yet to get a mic that is that good, though. He's just pointed in the other room and hear it. All right, I guess I should do a real intro. I don't know how much of this was captured, but that's cool. I'll look at the tape back later. Hey, Reject Nation.

I never really do intros for these, Chris. you're ready to get stuckmanized today people um you know this is one of those cases that phrase where people say uh this person needs no intro and i feel like if you guys are here this individual across from me really doesn't need an intro in fact it's really trippy looking at you right now you're not in my television or your phone or computer right now same i've been watching you for years man and and here you are outside of a screen thank you Thank you for saying I'm outside of a screen. I think this would be a good opportunity, actually.

Can we, we should pull back the curtain a little bit here because we did talk on Zoom a couple of years ago. Yeah. You had hit me up. I remember that being a strange day for me when Chris Stuckman shows up in my Twitter inbox. And I thought it was a bot. I was like, no, Chris Stubber would never contact me. But Mr. Stuckman contacted me. And then.

I had the same thing when Mike Flanagan donated to our Kickstarter. I was like, that's a, that's not Mike Flanagan. That's like that's not the real one but it was it was crazy that's just someone with the same name and so we're finally going to reveal this actually so you had you were doing the paranormal paranoids the youtube channel buildup and lead up to announcing Shelby oaks and so we had met briefly on zoom and you asked us who john who's helping us out right now with this asked us to do a reaction to Riley's message but not let people in on that we knew what the deal was and to this day we have never said that we knew what we were watching this entire time.

I appreciate that, man. That was so, so cool. I'm just so happy that, you know, people I've watched over the years have shown support like that, and it meant a lot to me. Yeah, it was great. And it's exciting to see what the evolution is and to be one of your Kickstarter backers. And it dawned on me today that I haven't cashed in on whatever the hell I'm supposed to get from that.

All the rewards are coming. We've already done some of them. on like backer screenings across the country. And, you know, it's been, it's been really, really great and very surreal. You're doing so many of these interviews now. Yeah. And I'm so curious. I have an inclination of what your answer might be.

But I'm wondering if you actually do have an answer for this. Have you already reached a point where you're like, if I have to answer this one question one more time, I'm going to kind of lose it a little bit. No, no, because I, true. Yes, I have been asked the same thing a lot. But honestly, like, I, I've spent my whole life watching filmmakers that I admire get interviewed and hoping that there's some, like, kernel of truth that comes out of it that would help me get inspired to get something made.

Yeah. I feel like I'm so wired to be an aspirational filmmaker. Yeah. You know, like, always looking up, like, when will I get to do this? That, that I love the idea that hopefully somebody could watch, you know, a video like what we're doing right now. and feel some of that, too, of like, oh, okay, I feel like maybe I could do it now because some asshole from Ohio got it done. So maybe I can too.

And so, like, that's kind of, that's, that's the hope is when I do these is that there's some kind of, you know, inspirational thing that can happen there. Has it been a little bit of dream fulfilling? Because I can imagine that as being someone who you're saying, me, an aspirational filmmaker, that you've maybe done imaginary conversations. of like what I would say in like an interview or a talk show thing. No, I've never looked at a mirror and pretended that I was answering questions from someone who wasn't there. I've never done that. Yeah, no, it definitely goes through your mind.

And I think it also has to do with like a level of anxiety where you're like preparing for something that may never happen. You know, you're always in that, you're always in that state where you're thinking like of future things that will probably never come to fruition. But that's just what anxiety is for me is just like, well, this might have. and this might not. And so might as well get prepared for it. But no, in the case of sitting down with you, I'm really excited because, like I said, I have been watching a few years. I feel like I've seen your face off and on over and over again for so long. And, you know, when did you start? The channel technically started at like in 2013. Yeah. So not that far away from me.

Yeah, we didn't. We've, we've ebbed and flowed where you have, you've had a really great consistency throughout the years. And it's been fun watching like the evolution. of you. And I'm, I'm curious to know what the evolution of you has been with this journey, because there's some movies that come out where I feel like the director is kind of the star of the movie. Let's say like Avatar when I was first announced. Really, it's like James Cameron's kind of the star of this movie. A lot of times Christian from Nolan is. And this is in no way a discredit to your actual like leading actors in there. But in a lot of ways, you are kind of the star of what's happening with this film and how people are learning about this movie. So I'm curious with you kind of

being like a main character in the foreground here with this film. What has been your arc, would you say, from when you went into, from pre-production to where you are now today, we're in a few hours from now, you're going to be having your Los Angeles premiere for Shelby Oaks. Oh, man. It's, uh, there are, there are no clear, concise ways to describe it fast. Okay. Uh, because it's just so out of body and, and strange. And welcome. I'm, I'm happy.

that people are excited and that you know our festivals have been amazing uh fantastic fest was incredible the response was off the charts i couldn't have been happier all the backers greetings were the same way to actually be able to meet these people face to face and thank them and shake their hand and it was um really i guess heartwarming is like the cheesy way to say it but it's true like i left all of those screenings feeling like really glad and happy um which was is just a wonderful thing. I think for me, I've always in my mind been a filmmaker since I was a kid.

And I don't know how to turn that off. But there is this sense of sort of, I think there's a sense of like validation that a lot of artists are always looking for from the things that mean you actually did it for real. I know exactly what you mean. Like as a YouTube film critic, for instance, starting at 09 and then I think it was 2015 when I actually got into a press

screening for the first time it was six years late yeah and that's just because Hollywood wasn't really taking YouTube film criticism seriously or really tick tick I don't know if TikTok was in I don't know when TikTok came it was invented but there was this notion of like if you do it on video and you're doing it you know like independently you're not real you need to be like a writer for an outlet or a paper or something and eventually they had to kind of notice folks like us and start inviting us to these types of things because our voices were undeniable and our audiences were undeniable and it was impossible for people to turn away from that anymore and that was like the gatekeepers

of that period in Hollywood of being like well this is a time where these voices they mean less to us than these voices we need to get a spot for all of these people over here who are established who are part of the establishment that we have said is the establishment. And once those gatekeepers finally were like, all right, fine, yeah, you can come to this. You guys can come to this screening. I don't know if it was like this in L.A.

around that time, but in Ohio, it took a lot longer. It's probably harder out there. Yeah. And so I've always kind of been in this space where I feel like I have been trying to achieve some kind of pat on the back from people I don't know who are in a position of power who can say that I did the thing, whatever that is.

Look, I have a reserve seat at the Star Wars screening. I think I'm a critic now. And it's funny because I spent so long in that place of like trying to be an official YouTube movie person that I became very, it was normal for me to think that I hadn't achieved that. that I was like just a guy in my room in Ohio making videos starting out sitting in on a bed with a Dragon Ball Z comforter underneath me and now that I've got a film made

it's funny because you hear people who are who are writing for outlets and papers who are describing me as a film critic yeah and I'm like oh wait so I did I become that did I achieve that because now that I'm trying a new thing it's like wait you're still you're still that I'm like Oh, wait. I was? I did that. I did that. Okay. And so it's just we're kind of in this, if you're a painter, I imagine having like an art exhibition or something or making real sales or getting your artwork up at, you know, buildings or restaurants or something feels like you've done a thing. And I feel like all of us are in that position where we're always looking for the people who can reach out and like sort of bless us with their touch to let us know that

we did the thing. Yeah. Wow, it's actually really inspiring and it's causing me to reflect in in my own way because you're so right about that. I remember even way back when, when I was invited to my first Warner Brothers gig for like a thing for Edge of Tomorrow for and they had me sign a thing. This is what I really don't like this word. They had me sign an influencer agreement. I didn't even know what the word influencer was. I said, where do I sign to that? I was like, They always says influencer. I'm like, what's an influencer? And then I remember at the most recent Warner Brothers thing, they were like, no, that's

where the influencers are. You're here part of the press. Like, oh, I'm part of press now. So I never know where I'm at until someone else actually tells me where on that a lot of the time. But you were speaking earlier about everything that you're speaking about right now has brought me back to this real critical choice that you made that was very, very bold, where you decided that you weren't going to do movie reviews for movies that you didn't like.

That doesn't mean you wouldn't be critical in movies that you were reviewing, but you were adamant that I'm not going to do movie reviews for movies I don't like. That's right. And it was met with its own weird level of controversy. And does it at all feel a little bit cathartic now that you have this movie coming out that has a really good Rotten Tomato score, Mike Flanagan producing, neon distributing? I feel like a lot people don't talk about how the Newton brothers are doing, did the music for this. Is there a sense of catharsis that that gamble has actually paid off? I think even if

none of the things you just said happened, I'd still be happy about it, the choice. And that's because I was unhappy as a person. I was in a very negative emotional space, going to see movies, you know, two, three movies a week, sometimes more. And then having to discuss things that I just felt that I didn't like, you know, I didn't like this movie. I'm going to make a video about it. And then also there is a sense, and I'm sure you've encountered this too in your time on YouTube, there's a sense of sometimes you have expectations from your audience for a certain type of reaction you might give, you know, and they want you to go there.

They want you to get angry. They want you to get, you know, they want you to rant. They want you to become that version of the, whether they loved your video of like the emoji movie or something, you know, and they want you. you to get back to that place. And it's like, that's literally not me right now. And I can't fake me. I've never been able to play a character. I've never been able to like be anything other than myself when I press record. And I was in a place where it wasn't just about knowing how hard it is to make a movie and not wanting to trash filmmakers that I admire. It was also that I was very

unhappy, uh, being in a space of negativity. And I began to notice a shift on not just YouTube, but everywhere really, uh, towards negativity and what I will call performative mocking. Okay. Performative mocking, the best way that I can describe it is like, if you've ever been to a really packed, um, movie and one audience member during one key moment might make a very loud comment and then get a few laughs. And then he realized, is wait a second i'm like the star of this show now i'm going to be a stand-up fucking comedian and be and get everybody to laugh with my you're not you're doing it for the crowd you're not authentically being this person and i think that there's a lot of that online right now where

it's like i i would like to be angry for the sake of being mad i just you know because that's what's expected of me and i do think a lot about sustainability in the type of videos that we make and legacy. I don't know what the YouTube space or the TikTok space looks like when our generation is in our 70s because we don't really have that now. There are obviously older folks on YouTube making content, but like in general, people like us who are the first generation to adopt YouTube really into our lives, I don't know what our content looks like when we're in our 70s. And I do think film criticism is the type of thing that can be sustained. forever, but there is a level of, like I said, performative mocking that I don't necessarily

view that as having a legacy. And I don't, and I didn't want it to be my legacy. I don't want to be 65 years old and being like, this movie was a piece of shit. And then have some horribly cringe thumbnail. And I realize it's just not, and it was just making me very unhappy. Also, I think film saved my life as a kid. I don't know if I'd still be alive without it. I don't know if I would have escaped that religion without it. And so part of me doesn't want to trash it. Part of me wants to support this art form that has genuinely meant the world to me. And I'm not invalidating film criticism. I think that film criticism is beautiful and incredibly valid. I was talking to a filmmaker at Fantastic Fest who was like, I learned more about, he said I learn more about my

movies sometimes by reading the reviews because people are giving him, we're giving him like a different view of his own work. And that type of stuff is completely valid. But there is just this, there was a sense where I was just very unhappy. So even if, like you said, the reviews are good. I'm happy about that. The score with the Newton's and Mike Flanagan and all this amazing stuff, neon, it's a wonderful thing. And I've worked really hard to get to this place. But even if none of those things came, I'd still be happy with that choice. Wow, what an interesting, like, way to reflect on that. And you're so right, too, about, I identify with you a lot when you say film, save my life. You know, like what I like to tell people is what we do at our channel is we like to

share our emotional connection to movies and shows through what we do. I was like, whatever you're feeling internally let it out, because I do feel that I learn more feelings through films, and I learn so much empathy through being in characters, shoes, and whatnot. And you were talking about film criticism and really respecting, of course, are you able to engage with others of film criticism when it comes to Shelby Oaks? Can you actually have a dialogue with them in a way where you're not taking it personal, even if it's someone who doesn't like the movie? Can you have that dialogue? No, I've met a few folks in person who didn't like it, and that's fine. I mean, it's part of the game, man. It's just the way to, if I, if I, if you and I made products and sold them on

Amazon, we'd have customer reviews, you know, if you make anything and put it out in the world, people will, will express how they feel about it. And obviously, I've done that for, I've done that for years. And, and so it's wide open for that. But, you know, it's just, like I said, it's part of the game. It's something that comes with it. And yeah, no, I mean, I've read tons of reviews um i'm in a place now where i've read so many that i feel i'm like i'm good i read enough i read like enough uh but no i mean it's it's it's also just like i said that the reaction has been you know mostly positive and so it's been really exciting to see i mean especially at the festivals we've done it's just been a lot of really excited people in the genre space and that's who

i made the movie for it was like fellow people who love horror and action and thrillers and scary stuff, but who also understand making something when you don't really have a safety net and you don't have a lot of resources. Because, you know, and I can say this and it's true, we are, we're definitely, we've got to be top 10 lowest budgeted films of the year to receive a wide release. Yeah. There are going to be people on YouTube who review this movie who've never reviewed a movie of this budget, ever, just because it's got my name on it. Are you going to be paying attention to those? I already am. And that's the type of thing where I just feel like it's important to say that too. It's like people who normally talk about Superman and Batman and Star Wars

will probably also review this movie, even though we shot it for the types of budgets of movies that they don't ever review because they don't get traction. Yeah. And so it's cool to, and that's the world that I know very much so on YouTube. It's like there's a lot of times where you see a movie that's coming out. And you're like, well, I could review this really cool indie movie. Oh, man, but it's just not going to get any traction because the flash is coming out or whatever. And I understand that world because I have kids and they need fed. But, you know, there's... They need fed.

They need fed. But that's another thing I would love to do in the future with my channel is just try to also, you know, support some of those independent voices from filmmakers who are out there. really struggling to get anybody to watch their movie, you know, because there are filmmakers I met at Fantastic Fest who premiered there, and they have maybe like two or three reviews of their movie up, and that's it, because they're just out there, like, begging people. Like, they're like, I don't even care if you don't like it. Just bring the word. Just talk about it, yeah.

And that's the struggle that so many people have in this industry of trying to get something made that's original, first and foremost, that isn't attached to an IP. and then trying to get people to watch it. I'm really curious. With the Kickstarter that happened, I've heard you tell the story of like, hey, hey, you were with your wife, you didn't want to look at the numbers

when you launched the Kickstarter. Was there a changing you internally once you guys did accumulate the numbers and surpass them where you realized some, did you allow yourself to receive it internally? Like at your heart? Like, I have some level of inspiration

or, because I gladly supported it. Because you do have that thing. We're like, I believe this guy can pull it off. Thanks, so I will gladly support. Thank you. And did you, were you able to receive that, though, emotionally? Yes and no. Like, obviously there was a part of me that was so enamored and happy and grateful.

But it did still feel, I think, you know, I think any artist at all, it doesn't matter what you do, film books drawing sculpting whatever we're just wired to think it will all go away yes i know exactly what you mean because because it's not like a nine to five you're not like with a company you don't have like this guarantee ever like even our monthly monetization on youtube changes yeah the rules are constantly changing yeah like we could like know oh well you know in in in january in febru where the views will probably be down. Yeah. Because not a lot of people talk about movies then.

In the summer, it's going to be great. And the holidays, it'll be great. When people go back to school, it goes down again. And there's no guarantee for any of this stuff. It feels, and I was talking to Mike Flanagan about this, and he told me that it was probably about five or six years into his career that he actually stood up and was like, I think I have some stability.

He had made like, you know, four or five movies at that time. Yeah. Because we are wired to think. this will go away somehow for some reason it'll be taken away from me yeah and so that that is still how I feel um and I think it's good though I think it's I think it keeps you on your toes and I think it keeps you creatively juiced you know because if you're if you're if you ever sit up and you're like I'm done put a fork in me uh whatever you do is going to start to really suck yeah there's there's there's always this level of a little bit of fear a lot of people do they don't realize a lot

is actually kind of, it looks like a lot of confidence and we're going forward, but a lot of it is because we're a little bit afraid. No, man, I've told this before, but like, you know, that Jehovah's Witness video I did a few years back, I must have rewatch that 15 times before I posted it. That's such a long video to rewatch 15 times.

It's like 55 minutes. I watched it once in preparation. That's true. That's true. But no, I was just so scared to put it out there. Yeah. I was so like, if this goes, if this goes south, this will just be the most embarrassing.

awful thing that's ever happened to me that I reveal all this and then people don't drive with it. But then it became like the comment section of that video is literally like a therapy session. Like there are so many people in that comment section that are like, I'm going to tell my story. This happened to me. And thank you for for opening the doorway to that ability. And so, you know, to answer your question in a very long way, sorry. We're here for you to talk It's great But it's it's very unreal

And it feels kind of like I'm floating in space or something Like I don't I'm like touching the ground You know I don't have like a tangible It's it's crazy I was never Jehovah's Witness But I did see that video when it first came out And I watched it again and lead up to this And yeah I mean that's a whole other kind of deep conversation

We could have of my own personal ways I could absolutely like talk That video did mean a lot to a lot of people. And I would say that as an individual who watched it, that meant a lot even for me. So thank you for being vulnerable and willing to do that. Thanks, man. With vulnerability, it's really interesting how as a YouTuber,

YouTube critic, you amass a following. You get followers. Yet when you suddenly become a director on a set, that's when you're an actual leader to people who are following. and you've talked about having things that a lot of us have imposter syndrome social anxiety where would you say you started off at then and how has your communication perhaps increased how is your leadership skills changed did you have any failures that you definitely learn from that you're going to apply moving forward what changed it's interesting because like and you

probably encounter this too when you film a video on for youtube you're it's a very um closed space, you know, there's nobody around, really. There's three of us in this room right now. Yeah, yeah. And when you meet other people who come up to you and they're like, oh, my God, this video, I love it. It's like, oh, my God, yeah, people are watching. And you do have to have like that moment where you realize, okay, yeah, I am having

some kind of an impact. But stepping on the set, then it is like everything's front facing, you know, and people ask you questions for everything. And you better know the answers. And if you don't know the answers, you better be honest. and say, I don't fucking know. And that's the other thing I would say I learned a lot because, like, there was a, there were only a couple of things

where it would be like, what do you think about this lens choice or whatever? And I would have to be like, I need to see it on the camera before I can answer that. I think Tarantino gave this really good sort of, I'm going to paraphrase his quote where he was like, you don't need to know everything about lenses and lights.

You just need to know how to communicate your vision to really talented people you hire. Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Right. Yeah. And that's the case with Shelby where, you know, I'm not a cinematographer. I know a lot about cinematography, but I'm not a cinematographer. And so working with someone like Andrew Baird, who is our DP, who is an absolute genius and a great person, and he loves Nacho Libre.

And we connected instantly on that. I will take him with me on anything that I hopefully have the privilege to make in the future. but just having really long conversations before we shot with him. We had a year to prep the movie because of so many delays that we encountered in COVID. So we shot listed everything.

We storyboarded everything. We had top-down diagrams of the scene for blocking of like, here's like the general look of the room, here's where the actors will come in. We knew everything ahead of time. And so that when we were on set, we only had 20 days to shoot it. When you're on set and you encounter a problem,

you can reset pretty quickly because you know where you need to go. And those types of questions don't come up because we've talked about it ad nauseum. But like when someone comes up and they're like, what do you think about this prop or this prop or this prop? And there's like three different options of like a suitcase or something. You know, you have to think about all that stuff. And it feels inconsequential in the moment until you realize, well, you know, we're going for a color scheme here.

We have this type of color as in this movie and this type of look. And what does that bag say about this person? Is that one kind of crinkled? does that mean they that they're the type person who doesn't buy a lot of new stuff and they keep the same old stuff for a long time and those questions come up and you have them forever and it's you know so there was a lot of sorry to interrupt there was a lot of like things you never considered yes was it met with like an instant reaction of like why to no I guess this is important I had the time of my life on set always like a thing you embraced the best time I think being on set is probably my favorite thing about making a movie. It's just actually being there doing it because you are, you are just like, you've got this thing that's been in your head. And if it's going well, then you're seeing it come to life.

And the best thing is like you're seeing really talented people interpret your vision for you. So like that the actors, you might have had like a very clear way of how you thought a line might be said. But then you hire these amazing actors like we have Camille Sullivan and Sarah Dern, Keith David, all these people, Brendan Sexton, the third. and you're seeing them say things that you wrote and they're giving their artistic interpretation of it

and you're seeing a new thing for the first time in your mind. And that happens all the way through post as well when you get final sound mixed and you get the score and you see a new edit. And this thing that was always in your head a certain way is constantly evolving and becoming new and it's a new experience. And even with these screenings we've been doing,

seeing it with a crowd becomes new, as well because you hear gasps, you hear a scream, you hear somebody holding their breath. And then they, you know, and people aren't, one of the things I noticed a fantastic fest is there were a lot of people who were like, they would stop rattling their candy because it would be like a quiet moment. And you can tell they were like, oh, shit, everyone can hear me. Stuff like that, you know, anytime your movie becomes new again, basically you're trying, you're constantly trying to capture that first,

spark that happened before you ever wrote a word and you got so excited yeah yeah you're constantly trying to find that spark again and it happens every time it is shown to you in a new way i heard you speak on how the first time you had a screening you were brought up you it sounded like you almost had like a panic attack where you felt like got to rush to the bathroom how have you changed over the course of the screenings now with being audience members are you able to actually sit back and observe the movie as as one of them or you're looking at the crowd it's gotten better it's gotten easier for me. I think I've seen it now with a crowd like seven times. Tonight will be eight. I think so, yeah. And it's gotten, it's gotten more like I can, I still,

there's still a weirdness to it. You know, it's kind of like being naked in front of people or something. Like you're being very vulnerable and it's like, okay, I'm just here. Okay. But, you know, after you, after you've seen it so many times with people, it does start to feel, it gets easier. And I have sat through all of them. There's a lot of filmmakers that duck out and don't do that and I get that you've seen that I've seen this movie probably realistically I've probably seen it like 500 times probably more than that and that doesn't count like all like being there on set seeing every shot recorded like this cut I've probably seen like 500 times and so the only way to get a new experience now is to watch it with a crowd

yeah I get what you mean do you find yourself more in the Tarantino I've been in a crowd with Tarantino where he's clearly a fan of his own work. He's the only one laughing at that joke. He wrote that for himself. It's really obvious. He's a fan of his work. Do you find yourself currently more at the stage of that

where you can watch it as a fan? Or are you more in the like Scorsese realm where you're like, I feel like I could have changed this. I could have done that. Scorsese, for sure. You're kind of re-editing a little bit. Yeah, I think that's just how I will always be. I don't think I can turn that off, man.

I wish I could, but I don't. I can't. I think I'm always in that space of like, oh, man, an extra day would have been cool for that one part. But no one else is really thinking about those things that I'm thinking about. You know, like, I remember like I mentioned like this one idea I had for a scene recently to a crew member. And they were like, oh, but that scene plays great. I'm like, yeah, no, it's cool. But like, what if it was like this?

And they were like, eh, it's good the way it is. and so I do have to kind of like sit back and and turn off that part of my brain now because it is it is it's my baby but now it's other people's too and so I just kind of have to be like it's done we did it what part of the process was more grueling the writing it or directing it uh the writing for sure because it once you're directing it you know like I said we prepped it for a year and so we knew everything and there weren't a lot of questions um when you're writing it it is so malleable it can be anything yeah it's like how do you harness this volcano of ideas that is exploding in your mind and be like pencils down we're done with this part yeah that's a very difficult thing to be like okay we need to we need to stop right and just we need to shoot it now it's very hard did you write did were the rewrites during the process of making this movie no no wow that's kind of unusual. It is, but also not for an indie. When you're shooting an indie, when you've got less than a million to shoot it. Because yeah, we raise what we raised, but that doesn't mean we shot it

for that. Yeah. You don't have time to be like, hey, I came up with an idea. Michelle Mietti, our first AD, would have murdered me because she does the schedule, you know, and she, she, the first AD, Michelle, she's an absolute incredible person, but she did our schedule for us. And she was like, based off of everything you need to shoot, based off of actor availability, based off of Ohio weather predictions, wow, here's the probably best way

to shoot this movie in 20 days. And of course, not chronologically. And so when you are, I mean, we're skin of our teeth at the end of every day. It was like, we got two more shots left. How much more time do we have 10 minutes? Oh, fuck.

It was like that every day. And there's no time for me to walk in there like an asshole and be like, I got a new page. They'd be like, Chris, what are you doing? I would say the only things that really changed on set was occasionally an actor might be like, could I say it like this?

I'm like, sure, yeah. Was there an idea or suggestion that maybe did happen during, because you're saying nothing really changed, I'm curious, as you were speaking about the actor's contribution. Yeah. Was there anything that any one of the actors contributed, whether it be character idea-wise,

or they did some choice in the moment that was the complete surprise that kind of changed the way you were going to execute the movie? I want to talk about Camille Sullivan, our lead. She plays me. I'm really excited for you to see her performance in the movie because she is amazing. I saw her in this movie, Hunter, Hunter. I thought she was incredible.

We offered her the role. We didn't audition. She said yes. It was just, it was a perfect thing. And I've talked about this, but like our day one was perfect. She was perfect. And we finished five hours early on day one, which never happens. And because of her.

Every day that I rolled camera with her was, was just, I had nothing but confidence. I was never like, I wonder if she's going to get this. Never. I mean, it was like, and she showed me deeper, darker ways into lines and moments that I did not anticipate. The level in which she dedicated herself to this movie surprised me every single day. And I don't know if you've, I mentioned this in one. interview. But we had, all the actors were miced up with chest mics. Oh, yes. So like there's mics underneath the shirts, you know. And in any of our really big emotional scenes, we, we struggled in

sound editing because Camille's heart rate would increase. And she would, and we would hear the thump, thumb, thumb, thumb, thumb, thump of her heart getting faster and faster because she really was authentically getting to that place. And it was really just her dedication every single day that just blew me away. She didn't treat this like some little indie made by some YouTube guy from Ohio. Like she, every single day she brought her A game and she inspired the other actors and the crew as well every day to be like, no, this is a real movie. We're making a real movie. So I owe so much to her. You said inspired the other actors.

Yeah. Now I usually associate like the director. They're the lead. They set the tone. Did you discover that there was something really important to how serious the lead actor takes it? That affects the rest of the casting crew? I just think it's impossible not to be affected by someone you're working with who is giving their all because then you're like, oh, shit.

Like, I better fucking... She's like really going for it. And I'm just so happy to have cast her in this movie. I'll work with her on anything, anytime, anywhere, any place. Like Rocky Balbo. How do you know that... Here's what I find really interesting about the development of me. making a horror movie. It's one thing to watch a movie, get scared, and have an idea of what's

scary when you're viewing it. When you are making this movie, maybe it's in the editing or is it on set, do you have some type of metric or what is the way you know this is scary? How do you determine that? I don't think you ever know for sure. I think you hope. I think you just, you hope the thing that you're doing is working. And obviously, scares are subjective. It'll be folks who see it and think, like, that wasn't scary to me because I think we all go into horror expecting a certain type of thing. Like, there are folks who just want jump scares, and there are folks who want to be a little more personal with their horror. And if there's any connection people have to any type of sibling relationship or something along those lines, that's going to affect them deeper too. For me, I listen to a lot of horror scores while I write in my head.

just kind of like in the background. And I think about the edit a lot in my head while I'm writing. And usually the edit, the way I see the scene flowing in my head starts to inform the writing too. Okay, cool. Like I'll be kind of sort of shot listing as I write. You write with the intention to direct. Yes. Yes, I have a hard time sometimes not doing that.

Like while I'm writing, it just, I start seeing it and then I think, oh, that would be cool. if we went here, and then that starts to inform the rest of the script. I do outline, and I, like, with Shelby, I did outline. I had a whole beat sheet. It was very planned. But I do have scripts that I just wrote without one and just kind of winged it. And that's really fun sometimes. So, yeah, I think that, like, it's just trying to be as prepared as you possibly can

in every way and not letting yourself have those outs where you're like, well, I'll figure it out in the day. Because I can't do that. I can't just be like, ah, we'll see what happens. You mentioned the sibling part, and you've talked on how you realized later on when I think it was in post that this was probably from the subconscious of you wanting to connect with your sister for a little bit of background context, formerly Jehovah's Witness, so he hadn't seen your sister for what was it almost like 20 years? It was close to, right? yeah did you ever i don't really know the relationship with her i don't want to pry about it especially on camera did you ever uh talk with her after this movie did you show her this film that she have a reaction to it yeah she knows uh that the inspiration came from there yeah um it's been great to have her back in my life but it was a very strange as a 12 year old to be

told your sister is spiritually dead uh you will no longer be you know and you know she lived in our house. That's fucking weird. Yeah, she moved out at that time. But that's 12 years with your sister every day. It's awful. And then just like that, poof, vanished. So strange.

And the strangest part of it, and this is what I'm most ashamed of, is as a 12-year-old, I was like, oh, this is normal. This is like a thing that this is, yeah, she was disfellowshiped. Unfortunately, we can't see her anymore. Yeah. Because I was brainwashed. and conditioned to think like this is acceptable. God no longer views her as alive, so I shouldn't.

Because it was always God family, you know. Yeah. And so, yeah, this definitely came from that. This idea of, I believe my sister is alive, despite the world telling me she's dead and I will find her. And it's also a universal thing. I think anybody can understand if you've ever had, you know, you watch any true crime.

It's about a missing person. And there is, they're not able to grieve. You know, there's not closure. It's almost worse than if you knew the person had actually died because then at least you have a tombstone and you can like, you can grieve and move on. But when you don't know for sure, it's just this wound that keeps growing and festering

and spider webs into something else. Did she, does she respond well to the movie? Yeah, no, she has a tough time with horror sometimes, but it definitely, and that's kind of a, my favorite I showed my mom the movie too because my mom my mom left that faith and and she hasn't watched a lot of stuff that it's a little more supernatural leaning and so I was kind of like side-eyeing them like I was like are you guys reacting to this and it was really really entertaining definitely different than like the crowd experience that you would have yeah that's really

fascinating because you've you've spoken about how like M-N-I-Shomelon could be a um an inspiration to you yeah and so much of his work does ultimately revolve around the theme of faith and even though this is leaning into you know something supernaturally dark did this experience do anything at all that found any positive or pro to faith that you discovered in the making of this i don't know if if if there's anything about it that's pro faith i do think it's definitely pro hope in some ways but it's also about

what do you want and if you really want it what are you willing to give up to get it and I think that that's applicable to every character every major character in the film

all want something or wanted something and all have to to sacrifice something to achieve it. And I think that that's really applicable to all of us in life, too. You know, if you want to be like the greatest sports athlete of all time, you're probably going to make a lot of enemies, lose a lot of friends, sacrifice your own personal health,

beat your body to shit, and your anonymity goes away. And, you know, I just, yeah, there's a little bit of that in there, too. What were the sacrifices you felt you had to give up in order to get this done while you're making it? My kids were born when, like, when we started, pretty close to when we started. and I have been very, very present as a father.

It's been very important to me to be there as often as I can. Like I'm with them all day. I put them to bed every day. Not today, obviously. I'm in L.A. But, you know, it's like I want my children to see me a lot. But there were many times, including this interview, where they don't see me and I have to be away from them for a couple days.

And so I have had to, and like I said, off camera, maybe it was on camera. I don't remember. When I leave, they're very sad. Like what I told my kid, Fox, I was like, Fox, Daddy has to go to work. And he went, no, do it tomorrow. He didn't want me to leave. And so, yeah, I've had to sacrifice a lot of time with him, which has been tough.

But at the same time, they see a poster for this movie. And they're like, that's Daddy's movie. Hell yeah. And that feels really nice. That's cool. Yeah. I imagine you start working on this before you became a father. Yeah.

Did becoming a father affect at all the writing process of doing it? Did fatherhood, the emotions that come with fatherhood, did that influence at all the trajectory of how this story took place? There is a protectiveness to the lead character, Mia, that I, of her sister and their history together, that I do think comes from a place of love that probably, maybe subconsciously was affected by becoming a father and wanting to protect those you love. When I was looking through your history, I came across a video of yours that I was really,

I revisited it because it was 10 years ago with the problem with horror movies today. And it's been 10 years and horrors changed a lot since then. Would you be willing to comment on what you feel like is different with horror? What are some of the problems that you find generally with horror today that you wanted to make sure you avoided with Shelby Oaks? I'm not talking about like a trope with the cell phones that you've mentioned. I'm like, is there something specifically that you're like, we cannot do this? Oh, man. You can cut this part out while I'm thinking.

No, those are the best part. Make me look smarter, Greg. I think the stuff that's always scared me the most is anything that feels personal in some way. I love bumping the night horror movies too. I just saw like VHS Halloween last night at Beyond Fest. and it was sick. I loved it. I love movies that are fun, scary.

I love it all, man. I really do. But the stuff that actually makes me feel some kind of fear is something that does feel like an attack on the family, an attack on a belief system, something that challenges the way you perceive the world because I think that is maybe the scariest feeling is I know. how the world works and I'm sure of it and then suddenly being like wait no I now I'm confused which is what I went through and probably you did too in the past with faith is knowing like this is the way the world works this is my hope in the future and I will achieve that and

then to be like wait I don't understand the world anymore you know because as a as a witness you would, when you would see like a tragedy unfold in the world, you'd be like, well, we're one step closer to Armageddon now. That's one step closer to God fixing all of our problems. And now when I see tragedies in the world, I'm just like, I don't know what any of this means. And that's terrifying. And so I do think, I think that, you know, in Shelby, there is a sense of a lead character

who is going through a journey that causes her to question her entire life and things that she saw as a kid, not just herself, but also in her sister. And I do think that the challenging of a belief system, even if it's not about faith, but just something that you were concrete about in your own life and being like, this isn't the way you thought it was. I think that's really terrifying because we're all sort of like confident in ourselves, right? Like we're like, we're not like necessarily confident. I'm not confident. But we're confident that our lives are what they are and that we got to a place because of something that happened. And if someone were to just kind of chisel at the right spot

and it all just crumbles, that's a really terrifying notion. That's the best way I can answer your question. I respect that. I respect that a lot. Even though I got a limited time with you, so I want to ask a couple of fun ones. What would be the first horror movie you'd want to show your children? Oh, my God.

Okay. So right now, my kids are interested in horror. They love Halloween. But there are certain movies that I obviously can't show them, but they really want to see. And so what I've been doing is I've been showing them clips. Okay. Of like,

Jaws. Jaws. So like they're obsessed with Jaws, but they haven't watched Jaws because it's really gory. But they can watch like the scenes where they're chasing the shark in the boat. Yeah. You know, with the barrels and nobody's dying.

And they really love that. They've seen clips from Jurassic Park. Okay. They've seen like the Brachiosaur reveal. So you're still holding off on Jurassic Park. That's true. Yeah. I feel like they're just not ready for it.

Okay. I remember I went to my first. movie when I was like five in the theaters. So I feel like maybe another year and we'll try a few things. Jurassic Park was death. I saw that when I was like three in the theaters and my parents said I was screwing my head off and I had to leave. So yeah, I actually, I asked, I was like, were you ever showing in Jurassic Park? Then I'm like, wait a minute. No, that actually really messed me up when I was a child. Yeah. That's a good call. And the one thing I hear you often praise is like the crew being the unsung heroes. Yes. Which crew member position would you say

is the most underappreciated? Oh, first AC. First AC. First, I don't even know what that is. It's the focus puller. Wow. Yeah. It's the person who is making sure your shots in focus all the time. He's nodding. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I'm talking about. Because, okay, so let's say the DP's on point. Yeah. They get the shot right. They nailed the dolly move. Let's say the actor just gave the performance of a lifetime. If the poor first AC holding the focus wheel was just a hair off and you're soft, you're blurry, none of it matters. Yeah. It's, it's waste. That's so true. And it's so much pressure

on that person, too. I felt it as you were describing it. You know, and that's why when you watch like action movies where it's like Tom Cruise is like doing a, you know, gigantic thing where he's jumping off a building and the camera's 360, I'm like, oh my God, the stress of this. But that's why they have like 10 cameras filming those events. Yeah. Because just in case one of them fails, you know, but no i mean the first they see and then i got to give it to the pas the production assistants who are out there like we had two really great pas on this movie Lauren and brett uh who were so awesome and we had this one day where our production designer wasn't able to get to set because he actually had COVID and we had to keep them off set for a few days but um our our uh pa Lauren stepped in and did

set decoration and was like she was like painting stuff and you know and and seeing that level of of excitement coming from those people like on an indie movie, wanting to do any job and wear five different hats every day. It was so inspiring constantly. That's awesome. All right, last couple of questions. I promise, Taylor. That's a couple of questions.

People have often asked you about how to be in a critic, change you, inform you as being a director. I kind of actually want to ask you the inverse. Has being a director help make you a better critic critic in your opinion. Do you feel like you actually, it's changed the way you review? Yes, 100%.

Last night, I saw this movie Night Patrol at Beyond Fest. It was awesome. Go see it when it comes out. And it's got Justin Long and Dermit Milroney and all these great actors in there. And it has a lot of action and a lot of blood and stuff.

And the director got up and he was like, we shot this movie in 16 days. And I kid you not, like my kidneys fell out of my ass. When he said that. I never fucking heard. he said he shot it in 16 days it blew my mind because the amount of crazy shit that's in that movie it's so impressive and I do think that when you're on set and you're shooting something

for real and you realize the crunch time of making an indie movie will genuinely change how you view them yeah yeah all right my last one here this is totally a question that you would ask on YouTube for our audiences you'll know it. You've probably got, I don't, I haven't heard you get asked us up. I already like and subscribe. Yeah. Thank you. You don't have to ask me again. Will you subscribe to my channel? Yeah, I've heard you speak about how you would love the opportunity to adapt Metroid. Yep. Mike Flanagan, friend and producer of this movie, he wrote the Clayface movie. Yes, he did. So my question is, is there a comic book property out there that you would like to take your own

horror spin on? Man. Yes. There are a lot of really great horror comics out there first and foremost. There's a really good one called Death Follows. Great horror graphic novel. It's by the same, Colin Cullen Bunn, who wrote The Empty Man graphic novel. That one's awesome. I've actually talked to him about that. Love that graphic novel.

As far as more known stuff, there are some lesser-known Batman villains like Clayface, Scarface being one of them. Scarface, that'd be fun. Yeah. that I think are really, if Clayface does well, there's, there's, there's just so much cool shit that's never been done. And I do think, I really hope that Clayface, I haven't read the script, but I hope it leans in a sort of, you know, horror space or at least horror adjacent space, because that's something I'd love to see is more comic book movies that do lean horror.

Yeah. Yeah. I've had a scarecrow movie in mind for so long. Yeah. I have like mapped out in everything. everything. That's awesome. Yeah, that's like my dream one. Chris, it's a real honor for you to be here. You know, you've been so freaking busy. You got your premiere in a few hours. Thank you for inviting me. If I don't like it, I'll have to be honest. I think I'll like it. Just telling you to your face. It's okay. I appreciate it. I'm excited. I'm so excited to see it. This is the second trailer came out of the day of filming as I watch it beforehand. And like, yeah, it does look great. And visiting Lake Mungo last night. I'm like, oh, yeah, I see the inspirations and stuff. So I feel like you're going to kick so much. ass with this man. Thank you. Thank you for taking time to be here. I'll see you in a few hours. Shelby Oaks out October 24th, but you can get those Thursday night screenings, October 23rd. Thanks, buddy. Thank you, sir. All right, Taylor, do it reasonably on time? That would not be more on time. Hell yeah, Taylor. I respect the time. That was really cool, man. Good

job. Thank you. Did you like it? I was trying to do as much research as one of my favorite interviews I've done. Oh, thank you, man. I reference, like so many other things that Chris has talked about. Yeah, I know you clearly did your research. That was really good, dude. I felt like I was talking to Sean Evans.