The Reel Rejects - RR LIVE - JOKER 2 SPOILER TALK! Joker Folie à Deux Controversial Ending, Audience Score, & Breakdown

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

Joker Folie à Deux - Spoiler Review - the film that sees the return of Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) but now joined by Harley Quinn (Lady Gaga) and is now the lowest rated CBM by audiences (at least in the DC Universe) It's time to talk details of why it doesn't work, our reaction to the Arthur Fleck death scene, & more...of how it's divisive for simply not being a boring musical? Joker Movie takes place in the Elseworlds of the DCU (James Gunn DC Universe) which of course does not feature Batman, but this does give us a Harvey Dent! The DCU is set to give us The Batman Part 2, Creature Commandoes, Superman, & currently has HBO The Penguin airing.  PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/thereelrejects Follow Us On Socials: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  https://www.tiktok.com/@thereelrejects?lang=en Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Music Used In Manscaped Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER: https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER: https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Are we live? Hello. Gang. Are we live? Speak to us. Of the Reject Nation? Can you guys put your mics? Closer?

Unusually close to your mouth. Unusually. How's that? A.S. Yeah. Just be, it'll sound louder to us. Oh, there doesn't. Okay.

But it won't. It's for some reason on the stream, on the playback. It's the one part we haven't got it. We blasted. And yet, can you guys hear us? Hello. Thanks, Mike, Joyce. uh so what's going on guys can you guys hear us let us know if you can hear us that's the first step first step every live stream starts like this make this live christian uns pronounced bill always faithful oh yeah the man's ready perfect ironic

sweet yeah well ladies and gentlemen it's been a while since the three of us have done a live stream together you guys uh we put it in the community post and on instagram if we should do this because i was like do we need to do a live stream for this movie that apparently is really underperforming at the box office right now. Sure. And did we, is there enough to spoiler about? And I think there's enough deep dive stuff, like a real film talk to have. So I thought, yeah, this would be a fun time. Since you guys voted for it, Coy has a lot to say. So much.

Coy loves it. It's his favorite movie of the year so far. Number one. They were just talking beforehand about how much they really like this movie. Move over, Fight Club. So guys get ready to dog on these. for their opinions. Yeah.

Side with Greg. Yeah, while you're here, leave a like on this video. That'd be very much appreciated. Also, thanks to everyone who showed up for the Sheejects live stream last week. It was a great success. You guys kept us live for longer than we expected because of all your crazy super chats and stream labs. We never end a stream without going through each and every one of them.

So, yeah, Koi, since you, you know, you had done your reviews on your own solo channel, but you haven't said anything here just yet. What did you think about this movie? I'm very excited that we get to have a dialogue because I think this is a movie worth having a conversation about, and I think that's my favorite thing about this movie is it actually had something to say.

I love, love that the first film is so bold and so artistic and so interesting, and I love that this movie completely dismantles a lot of the things that made that first movie what it was in another artistic way. I think the opening of this film, is a perfect microcosm for the rest of the film. The opening lays out what this film is going to give us, but it does it in such an interesting way.

You don't realize that the whole movie's been told you in the first five minutes. The movie being about, this is spoilers, this movie being about the shadow self in a very psychological way, in a very therapy way, but the shadow of Arthur being the Joker is illustrated by in the opening, him being trapped kind of in the makeup

and the shadow being a literal shadow. And the rest of the film, it's him trying to escape the shadow of the Joker, which is this thing he created. That, to me, feels very interesting because I feel like the first film, this is all my opinion. I feel like the first film would never have gotten made. It would have been called the stand-up comedian or the comic, and it would have made $7. And calling it the Joker was the only thing Joker about it.

This movie was never about The Joker. There's a guy named Bruce Wayne who's seven years old. He's not fighting AARP Joker later. It is not a movie about that Joker. It never was. And so I like that a lot of people were like, well, maybe he inspired the Joker. And there are all these theories. I like the first film causing conversation.

What I didn't like was that it emboldened a horrible person. Just because he's weak doesn't mean he's good. Just because he's ostracized by society doesn't mean that just that you also being ostracized mean you should root for him. I like that. The second film puts you in a position to root for this guy, to feel empathy, all those things, and then goes, you ever remember he killed six people and then murders him? I think that the first film emboldened a lot of the wrong people.

I think this film was the answer to that. And I love a sequel going, hey, we know. made a protagonist out of a piece of crap Merkham and I don't love some of the things on the way there I don't love the journey that it had to do with like the pacing and the tone not all of that worked but the actual

message of the film that we sensationalize violence and we don't give a crap about the normal person we don't care about an individual we only care about the big the spectacle how well do murder mysteries do how well does true crime do how much do we love murder how much do we want someone

to be larger than life this movie is is supposed to be about The Joker to the audience. And as soon as it wasn't, they didn't care about Arthur Fleck. And that's the movie. The joke is on the audience. The Joker is Todd Phillips. And I think that's genius because we get to be on the receiving end of the magic trick. The Heath Ledger's magic trick was a pencil in the eye.

This movie's magic trick is we got pencils in our eyes. And I think it's really interesting to look at the people that are mad at it. He kills people. And you are supposed to be like, yeah, this guy. The Joker should never have been a protagonist. The first movie should never have been called The Joker. but it wouldn't have made a billion dollars we'd never would have talked about it

15 kids at Lackma would have seen it but because it made a billion dollars we get to make a second film that actually inspires conversation so love it or hate it we're talking about it and that makes me happy that's why I wanted to do this live stream because I didn't enjoy a lot of the journey there but I loved the ending

all right well guys do you do you agree with Koi in the live stream chat do you guys agree with it but in the chat if let's go from like one through 10 Can you guys put your score down in there between 1 through 10 in there? What are people, and John, is there anything that you wanted to add on specific?

What did you think about the ending, John? I like the ending and concept. It's an aspect of the movie. I think I definitely want to see it again to fully assess. I like the, yeah, I like the actual building block of what it is doing. I'm not 100% sure if, like, in the flow of the movie, it is. is ironically or narratively satisfying, but I do appreciate what happened there

and the punchline that it is. I didn't love, I liked. I just loved the ending. This doesn't even make my top 20 of the year. I think what can be said about Joker versus Joker 2 is that Joker 1 is perhaps a more smooth and watchable movie experience, but to me, it's a more smooth,

watchable experience with less going on upstairs, whereas the second movie has more going on upstairs and is like a more rough and unrefined actual like watch if that makes it. You can tell they ripped up the script every few days as Lady Gaga was talking about. Like this has accumulated like interesting value

in my mind as I've thought about it whereas the first movie kind of devalued in my mind after the first few. I feel like the first movie is meta in the sense that we feel like we can understand the idea of being so ostracized. The first one was a commentary on society in an abstract way.

I like that the second one is a commentary in society in a direct way because everyone wanted the Joker, everyone wanted violence, everyone wanted a color by numbers, and then when they didn't get that, they rebelled, and the audience is now the audience of the film. I love that every single person raging against this film is exactly what the film's

about. That's so amazing for me. Yeah, I enjoy that, I enjoy that too. Yes, I think that things the movie is about is one thing. I think the execution and the journey there, is a whole other conversation and it's that whole conversation

it's that whole journey there that's the part that I found off putting I think the musical numbers especially don't work for this movie for so much of the musical numbers I think a lot of them are flat I think they take up a lot of runtime I think a lot of time it's just

them singing a song like with no style a lot of times it feels hollow I feel like Todd Phillips is a weird filmmaker I think what he excels at in filmmaking in the drama department is tension in a two character scene take the murray and arthur flexing in the first movie take the scene here with gary and joker in the courtroom and i think that comes with this comedy background of

understanding tension and release very well what i don't think he is is a great writer i feel like what he i don't think todd phillips actually gives a shit about any of these subjects i think what he likes are movies that do these subjects i think he's drawn to that in um like like, oh, I love Martin Scorsese's taxi driver and king of comedy, but I'm not really going to understand the depth of what this society and sociopathic pathology is of these people. I'm more into what the movies are, not really into what the subject is. And I think that's where a lot of this falls flat.

And it's like the same thing here with the musical numbers. I'm sure he likes musical numbers, but he doesn't really understand why to use them. I feel like the fantasy element of this, I was reflecting on it. going. I think what like one of my favorite musical numbers in her that I thought worked was actually when he's in the courtroom. It's the one where he like smashes the judge with a hammer.

Oh yeah. Because that right there is an actual transitional one that is showing a progression in his mind of where he's going to. Not just another one of like hey, I like Harley. I'm going to go sing with Harley right now. So and I like the one where they break out of prison or when they're

trying to do the break out of prison after Harley sets the fire at the piano. One's where you feel transported into their minds. And connected to it all. That was a good one. But so much of those musical numbers feel self-indulgent, and I don't think he really understands the purpose. When I think what could have really happened as a bit

of like a Darren Aronofsky type of dissent with the musical numbers where things are getting kind of interrupted. Like, I like the concept of when Harley shoots Joker in his fantasy dream, like on the image on screen, that scene right there at the Harley and Joker show. But what if

his fantasies like kept getting more into erupted and more and more falling apart. So that way that way the fantasy just starts reflecting what's going on. Instead of, okay, they're performing now, now. He's tap dancing. All right. And we just wait for longer and longer. This means absolutely nothing.

That's absolutely my biggest complaint. The pacing is the worst part of the film to me. Yeah, it's, I don't, yeah, I had a lot of issues with specifically that stuff. Don't get me wrong. Like, this is not one of those movies to me that I obnoxiously hate. I actually saw a comment on your video that I think is a very, very effort. I wish I could credit the person on one of your videos. I forget what they said.

But they were talking about the ending and they said that, and I thought it was like the perfect summary for what they were probably going for, is that when he gets killed is that it's his shadow finally catching up with him from the beginning of the movie. And I'm like, oh, what a great comment. Because I don't think that person was real. And it's not Heath Ledger's Joker. While we're on that subject, Heath Ledger, that doesn't even make sense. I know that he cutting a fit.

But, like, Harvey Dent's in this movie. Harvey didn't get blown up twice. Does he have quad face? No one points that out. I was just like, what the Harvey Dentz over there? No one points that out. It's not a prequel to the dark night. Everyone's trying to do it.

It's like, it's like, Harvey Dent's right here. He's right there. Use that as your example. That came from the same tool bag that the whole, like, oh, the Joker inspired the death of Bruce Wayne's parents. He created Batman. Like, it felt like the same. Leaps, some leaps, leaps. Yeah, yeah.

Sorry to me interrupt. That just drove me insane. No, yeah. I mean, like the ending of it, I like the idea of his shadow catching up with him at the very end of it all. I like the idea that the evil lives on of his actions, despite his contrition for it, that it'll pass along to someone else. Yeah. Well, there's aspects to it that I like. But at the same time, I think I wasn't a fan of the choice of him to be like, I'm not Joker. I personally wasn't a fan for this movie to do that choice I think the movie is about

his weakness as a person and I personally liked that choice because it was him like letting go and then we got to see our eyeline which is Lee Quinn like Lady Gaga is us it's the audience wanting violence and wanting him to be the Joker

him denying that then her leaving is what the audience is experiencing right now talking about this movie so that moment to me was worth it because her being like well I'm done with you is everyone on Twitter or 70 to 80

percent of everyone on Twitter. And like, again, I give this maybe a six and a half, maybe a seven, depending on my mood, probably about a six and a half out of ten. Again, like, but not love. But I think the ending and the conversation is worth passing that five. Like, I think it's more success than not. But I hated the fact that we had to endure moments where like, yeah, Joker, he's coping with song. Like, in the first film, the laugh is uncontrollable and it feels like a tick and it's something he can't control. I like the idea of song as like a balm on the wound and how it was consoling, but it doesn't let the pacing do

any of the things you described would have added an intellectual element to it, a psychological element to it. I like the fact that the inversion of Harley Quinn where she's the strong one and Joker's the weekend and she's the one leading to play on the Mr. Jay element. Yeah, and I like that, but it didn't really work by the time they threw in the pregnancy thing.

I was like, well, why that part? And like, enough is wrong that if you trimmed the fat and made this an hour and 50 instead of 220, this could have been like an eight, but the movie doesn't know what it is for the, second act and i feel like that's part of what you're talking about but todd phillips is in love with a director style and not with the subject matter the director was styling yeah exactly that's a big problem it's like david fincher obviously really has a fascination with serial killers but he doesn't

just watch serial killer movies and goes i'm going to make seven he worries me that he gets them so well i don't worry about top and that's what i feel like todd phillis says that's what top philis can't really talk about these subjects and interviews yeah because he's like i just like the movies I'm like, well, don't make these kind of movies then, because then you kind of miss the point of it. And that's sort of what that, but it's like, okay, with the, I get the arc

that Arthur goes on. That was something that I was like, okay, good, interesting, I'm like, conflicted about it, interesting choice for this movie. But then when I look back on the journey of it, I'm like, the first movie so much about Arthur, suffering and going through this mental health shit. And then he becomes the Joker by the end of the movie. And then this movie kind of just does that again with a different conclusion.

The first two acts are rubber. And so I was like, Jesus is like a way. So I was like what a lot of it just kind of felt like a waste of time to me when I think like it would have been more interesting if you just started it off where he. Where it left off. Where he is the Joker. And then he concludes that. Yeah. I think it would have been just as I think it would have been totally fine if he starts off.

He's the Joker. And then by the end he realizes this is all just a facade. eroding away the Joker instead of rebuilding him again. Not rebuilding and then ten minutes later I'm not. Yeah. And that's the part of it that I feel like there's this bad structuring in some parts of this movie. Because the film's effectively an epilogue to the first

film and it would have been interesting if it went like zero Joker to 10 Joker down to zero Joker again like one mountain but instead we got like act one and two repeated as you said in the second film and it didn't feel as cathartic. There wasn't that beautiful like scene in the bathroom. The scene in the bathroom is one of those beautiful films moments I can think of in the last like

five, six years. There wasn't a moment like that in the film where I felt as connected. Yeah. Yeah, well, we got a couple of super chats right now. I want to make sure that we at least acknowledge them right now because I came in a little bit ago. Let me read them. Let me read them. First off, hold on a sec. Uno momento, por favor.

Let me just get this situated. John? Yes. Read some comments. I did not get the interpretation that Catherine Kina resembled Arthur's mom. That's an interesting observation for sure. And, you know, hey, in terms of Todd Phillips

missing the point, it's easier to come up with what you want to talk about than articulating the conversation through, you know, art. And I think that's probably what happened here. Oh, Greg's back. Don't worry. I'll be able to move this camera around like that, guys. Don't worry. All right. So really quick.

We missed this at the last, this is for the She-Jex, but we kind of, we missed this. Oh, no. We missed this last time. So I want to acknowledge that. because Brian Pace said last week I know I miss a stream but I would love, love, love Taryn Rocks to react to Haunting of Hill House

and Bly Manner the second season. Bly Manner is my favorite Mike Flanagan's show and I think I would love it. Please do anything. I'll donate more. Have you seen Haunting and Hill House? I love haunting of Hill House. I think Flanagan's early stuff is like my exact dream and his shining sequel is so Slept on.

I didn't love it. Dr. Slopton? Dr. Slutton, I'd say. I didn't love the newest show, but I love those too dearly. The newest one is the only one that I couldn't connect to I think Spooky Season is Flanagan Like I wanted his Clayface movie so bad

Speaking of Joker Tyans He was going to be doing one of the black label movies Before Todd Phillips quit Spooky Season Spooky Season Hey Alright we got a few here We got a few

Yeah see a lot of people haven't seen this movie It's doing dozens of dollars It's making Which is sad Like I do I do find the This is Trash argument kind of sad Because in a I think it's interesting that this and Megalopolis

are both out at the same time because they both, and I haven't seen Megalopolis yet, but they both seem like, to me, from the outside of at least one of them, like a real piece of art and cinema. And then the question is, is this garbage cinema or is this high-minded cinema we don't quite understand?

And I feel like they're both probably landing below the ideal line, but I do appreciate that both films are unique and that this one, at least Joker 2, has stuck in my mind, has compelled me to think of it and does feel like something that you, can legitimately approach from all angles. And so I do think that regardless of the success, the degree of success, they have crafted like a real actual honest to goodness piece of art here.

And so I do feel kind of bummed when people are just like, oh, this is garbage, and that's it. I really struggle with the idea of listening. And it's ironic because of what we all do for a living. But I find it interesting that people would be like, I hear it's not good. I will never know for myself. This is the exact kind of movie you should go see for yourself. Yeah, because you're going to experience it differently.

Both movies are a Rorschach test, and this one is especially. I think, though, at the end of the day, if you're going to do a Joker movie, you can't completely deviate from the Joker. The first one did, they don't have made a billion dollars. At the same time, that one at least has a semi-argument that he at least arcs into the Joker by that end of that movie. I think this is a whole thing for me. The Joker, though.

The theme of the comedian, the comedian, being him being. the failed comedian who goes and loses his mind and Gotham's the thing that shapes him. I think that's a lot of Jokerisms. For him to completely denounce the Joker by the end of this movie in your second installment, I feel like you shouldn't have made a Joker movie.

I feel like Tauffields, you shouldn't have made a Joker movie. Because you clearly have no real interest in the Joker. But I think he's made that clear in every interview. Like, he doesn't like him. Then he shouldn't have fucking done the movie, is what I'm saying. But it made a billion dollars. He shouldn't have done it because there's enough

in the first. the one that at least resembles something of a that at least resembles Joker. I think that stuff is here. I mean, he literally kills a guy with a hammer. He is the anti-to-

He doesn't kill anyone with a hammer. He just kills no one in this movie. In the, in the song with the judge. In the fantasy, not in real life. That doesn't actually happen. He doesn't kill any, he only killing someone in your,

I kill people in my fantasy mind. That doesn't mean I'm going to actually kill someone. I never considered either the films like Joker, the Joker. Maybe that's why I liked it. I mean, this is an epiphany. Maybe that's why I like this one more, because...

I feel like as a franchise, it shouldn't have done it. Like, because I feel like there's no point in doing it. The way I feel how people feel about Luke Skywalker and Last Jedi is how I kind of feel about what he did here. And it's ironic that I love Last Jedi, and I like this most. I think, like, you know, having people, like, see their heroes destroyed is important for growth. And I think idolizing the Joker is dangerous,

and it should be nipped in the bud. Well, and less personified in just Arthur himself, but I feel like this movie is still steeped in like the concepts that make the Joker what that character is, the anti-theise to all of society and order essentially. I think that Joker should never have an origin.

Like I think Joker should be an element of chaos. That's why the first film, I mean, Dark Knight is the Joker to me. And that's like, he literally has five or three origins that he espouses. Like, he is someone without a beginning. He's just chaos. So the idea of a Joker origin movie inherently I don't like. So maybe that's another reason I like this

because it wasn't Joker to me. Like it's a Joker, a man who jokes, but his jokes aren't funny and he's not a clown prince of crime he doesn't do crime like organized crime he's not like a master in the like they clearly acknowledge there's the wayne there's bruce thomas way but there's bruce is seven years old i think it is the fight club thing though about oh god what like once he finally realizes toward the end it's like oh what have i created and it's well beyond my control and just because i now realize no i did do these things it was arthur there is no joker it's all just me the joker does still exist because there are just all

these people who idealize this guy and want to move like their perception of who the Joker is and so in a way it's like Halloween kills but more successful to me in that the spirit of the Joker and the inspiration to go out and to be anarchic and violent it still

lives on and I feel like that is kind of the tragedy of the whole thing to me it's like the how bright burn as Superman it's just such a stretch so I'm like sure bright burn and Superman story but like over there I want to read some of these super chats Samil Baddenfeld.

He said, oops, let me just refresh this because we just got another one that came in here. All right, the video Rocks are doing well. That's good here. That's good here. No, see, that's the thing is like, I like the dual layer of what you just said, John, because I'm like, yeah, that's what I was saying

that I like about the ending, is that the Joker, the concept of Joker lives on liking the Halloween Kills interpretation, that I think for your focus of your singular character, and I think it's kind of like fucked up what they did with the guy, cutting his face at the end of like to do like a Heath Ledger homage. It's very much a

Heath Ledger thing. Oh 100%. And I think it's kind of like messed up to do. I think that's like I don't know it feels tone deaf to me. It's one of the only characters I consider sacrosaned. I thought that was like I thought that was really bad. That's what I mean. I feel like John Phillips just doesn't understand shit. In a movie. And like you don't mess with don't like touch the DC

universe if you don't actually like DC and this is the same shit of why people got mad at Zach Snyder, but I think this is even more aggressive. I think it's way more egregiously like dismissive of it. Yeah. I just think it's willy-nilly. I think that's a detail where it's like you've been so focused about so many other things and now you're just going to be like,

Blah! Just reference to Heath Ledger because why not? But the film, like, in credits, it doesn't even say DC Studios. It says based on characters in DC Comics. To me, it feels like DC is like, we're going to go, if you're going to go over there, we're going to go over there. Like, it did not feel like it tried to be connected. So Mill Batonfell says, haven't seen the movie yet, but sending my support.

Those are the best kind of supporters right there. We love you. We're sending you our support. Jonathan Woodrow. We will get to that. Thank you for your first super chat. Thanks, buddy. Benji 7586 says, hey, from Puerto Rico, love your content guys.

I actually liked it, but I didn't love it. The actor was great, and the music was well, in my opinion. Music's fine if I'm just listening to a soundtrack, you know. Even then, it's not like, for casting Johnny Cash and Lady Gaga, I was not impressed. It is, yeah, yeah, and this has been well-trodden, but it's, yeah, you want to see the musical numbers. Like, I get the salve thing, the sort of, it's the antidote, or it's the way to harmonize your soul. But yeah, it's like, I think if you did that and you're hearkening to old movies, like, you should

embrace the fan. Like, I can imagine a version of this movie where you start, like you said earlier, seeing Joker's world and perspective through the fantasy of the music where everything's different and yeah, fly some walls out, get the ensemble and everyone in the scene is involved because this is his fantasy, then cut back

to reality and realize that, oh, that's not actually what's going on. And then, yeah, as you suggested throughout the movie, you can break that fantasy more and more until he's confronted by it. And it's a fantasy that choice because there's so much potential. I think just as a movie, like Galaxy Geeks says it, I was so bored a lot of it.

Like, I wasn't non-stop bored. Like, when I say I think 40 minutes of this movie is good, I don't mean like there's just a solid, it's good, the first 30, and then suddenly it's boring. I'm like, no, like it was fluctuating. I think Alonzo Durrall Day on the Breakfast All Day podcast summed it up in a good sense.

I think it was him. He said this is more, it's more fun to talk about than it is to watch this movie. I totally agree with that. I'd give it like a two out of five. until the ending and then that upped it to a three it's fiction elijah remind me i thought it was a documentary remind me to bring up the opening scene again uh later on benjee seven five eight six thank you so much for uh wait wait i need to refresh this so sorry everyone i'm wasting everyone's time here

moments of waste get it right get it right get it tight like natural born killers with the crazy images kind i feel like you could have gone more natural born killers and more crazy uh charles smith says the first joker was a pretentious knockoff of king of comedy and taxi drive on the style of Eternal Sunshine, Joker 2 is completely unique in the worst way. Yes, that's what I was telling John on the car ride over is my suspicion is that he has a template for the first one. A lot of times that filmmakers do that. They use templates of I think like Brian Singer even used like Empire Strikes Back as a template for one of the X-Men movies. I think X-2, right? Is the ending? Is that cliffhanger with Phoenix? I think it is.

There was something there. So a lot of times people use templates and movies. Now, that was like a template homage film. I'm sure. Not like a... Yeah, I mean, this one was, you know, let's put it together in the editing room. And it felt like it. A little bit, yes.

Yeah. He needed a guide. A Zoop, I would have liked to have seen Bateson just pop in and say, I'm Batman and grab a look away. Yeah. Just swing right into the front foreground of the Z and then leave. I'm surprised Alfred Pennyworth. There's a bit of a sign.

felt curbinger enthusiasm um structured at this movie isn't there where they're all just coming on this trial i thought of that halfway through like they're just doing the like the signfeld curber enthusiasm movie so funny we're just an addendum to fix the other thing oh that's great they're just looking back at the first movie on a courtroom trial while judging arthur it's the signfeld curber enthusiasm plot um but i thought i halfway expected like why is it like alfred on the stand right here he totally like he was relate he has a I thought they would have brought up the whole thing about being, you know, is Thomas Wayne, his father and stuff.

Yeah, that was way interesting. I thought that would have come up in the conversation. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, for as it is a comprehensive as the revisitation of the first film was, that stuff's almost not there at all. Yeah, they remade the first film, but they didn't use plot points from the first film. Charles Smith. To respond to John, Joker has no arc in this film.

He starts re-ended and passes his torch, even though he never. became a fully realized Joker. I don't know if I would say there's no arc, but I don't think it's like a very steep arc. Sure. I mean, it's kind of a... It's like a hill, not a mountains. It's a little bit of a, yeah.

It's like one of those humps in the room. The arc is him taking accountability. And disavowing the character that he built up. Like, as it's weird. As like just an Arthur Flex story, I get it. As a Joker story, I'm like,

Joker just what Joker Interpretate like the idea of like in your second movie after just Becoming the Joker would he just denounce it and feel like I feel bad about what I did Like that's just not Joker to me in any capacity I say I never even the confident end of first movie Joker is not bold enough to be the Joker to me So I never thought Arthur Fleck was the Joker It's the first movie that's my point But the Joker shouldn't have an origin movie

Then you start to move Then you start to go up and then your second one I feel like he should be getting worse He didn't fall in a van. I don't think Quince should propel that out of him. I agree. I would agree with your first point more

if they led with that. Him just being like, oh, I'm so sorry. And that's like where we start from. But I do wholeheartedly agree. I do wholeheartedly agree with your second point, though. It's like, yeah, the battle between the shadow and the self should be way more jagged,

I feel like, and way more, you know, off the hinges. Yeah, no one bought a movie ticket to see an Arthur Fleck movie. that's why they called it joke I know but that's fucked up to do to an audience I think I think it's funny

I don't actually I'm not actually that bothered I'm like if you come into this movie without the I think the investment in Arthur Fleck is crucial to a movie like this like if you're mainly concerned with the jokerness

of it all I would expect to be disappointed regardless with this I think I think the joke being on the audience is funny I think trolling millions of people is very funny Yeah, it's panning out great for Warner Brothers. I mean, their other movies did so well.

This is why they're being desperate and bringing freaking fans in now to critique their films. Well, I think that they're bringing, like, I think this is a good last stop before the revamp. And then if you're going to just pretty much remake your first movie, yeah, I think a lot of people,

it's the thing, it wouldn't complain if it was just called Arthur. I think the first movie has a fine, not a, maybe not a fine line, but at least some distinguish line that he clearly becomes the Joker by the end of that movie. Yeah. You know, in some capacity. He's at least on the starting

point to being the Joker. You want to feel like that cartoon in the beginning and the personification therein is like the real struggle that's happened. I just didn't get the starting off point. Like, why is he exactly back to the... It was annoying me. They said that he's in a position where he's been like, the Joker's been completely

medicated out of him, which I don't think is a bad choice, but I don't think it's necessarily the ideal place to start. I would agree. And that's one of the aspects of the writing that I thought was shit, is that you can't, you don't do your movie

where you're starting off with, is the Joker a split personality inside? I'm like, interesting concept. Why don't you explore that then? The movie, I think that would have hit a lot harder than by the arc and probably been more acceptable for most people if they actually leaned into is it a split personality

within him or is it not a split personality? You know, the movie doesn't explore that at all. Being less subtle, like being trying to go more subtle and weirdly less focused on that does hurt it. I feel like that's the thing that should have been. If anything in this movie should have been writ large, it's the grappling between the two halves of the identity. Jonathan Wittup, what's up, man? It's the most like we haven't been focused on it. I'm just staying quiet.

Hello, all. Been watching you guys for years. I rewatched Joker on my rewatch, and I saw his diary. I want people to see me. I hope my death makes more sense than my life. I really love this movie, and I hope people come around. I hope so, too.

Are you meaning you really love the first? I just feel like I'm defending a movie I only liked and didn't love. I feel like, so I'm in a tricky spot because people think I like everything, especially like any live chat. But like, I just don't, I didn't talk about Megalopolis. I didn't talk about Madam Webb. I just don't like spending time on stuff.

I didn't like. This movie is not something I loved. I just like that in-cells lost their God. Like, I like that people that are bad and worship murderers don't have a hero. Like, I think we should look at society and go, it's not good if we want someone to be evil instead of look at their problems. And so, for me, I like that the film goes, hey, as soon as this guy doesn't become the Joker, our eyeline walks out of the movie, I think that's interesting.

So, again, the movie was a mess to get to that point. It was boring a lot of the time. It didn't work with its tone and songs, but the message was enough for me to defend it. it's also a thing where I hope in like Jonathan's saying, people look back on it with the benefit of hindsight. I, when I finished the first Joker movie, you can check all my reviews. I never thought the end

of the movie, I'm like, that's my Joker. I haven't seen the Joker on screen, except for the deleted scene of Barry Keogan, since Heath Ledger. I don't consider the Gotham Joker canon. I don't consider, I mean, the deleted scene with Pattinson and Barry is way more interesting than the one they kept in the movie. That's why I would consider

him the Batman's Joker. But this wasn't a Joker movie. It never was. Bruce Wayne is seven. It is, to me, never canon, and I like Elseworld. So it, to me, was a fun experiment, and it got people thinking. It got me thinking, so I enjoy that enough. And I think Jonathan's right. In 10 years, some people will come across this and find joy in that.

And I would rather a movie inspire conversation like we're having than a movie be color by numbers. People didn't like Miss Marvel, and people did like Miss Marvel. No one talked about, sorry, Captain Marvel, too. no one talked about it. It just was liked or wasn't. Like, people didn't have anything to say. It didn't inspire a conversation. I would much rather something to get a D and inspire a conversation than get a C-plus and just

go out of the zeit guys. So I'm going to defend having a conversation. The conversation about, like, what society does to people versus like... I don't feel like that most of the conversation is about that. I think this is... I feel like most of the conversation is about something completely different. I think this is an interesting movie

that inspires a lot of conversation, even if a lot of the filmmaking can be very hitter, this. And I think that's worth acknowledging, because I agree that there's a lot of stuff that just goes in one ear and out the other and you're like me. Whereas this, I'm like, well, you can at least have a lot of conversations about it and I am like compelled by the interesting

nature of that. Yeah, I agree. And I'm also honored to finally be on the DC payroll after years of being in the Marvel payroll. I am finally uniting the comic companies. I think the conversation is about how you interpret the art because it is more abstracts. Like, the color by number of movies we get 80%

of the time to the scale. Like, there's a lot of independent film that actually asks questions, but no one talks about them because they're not called Joker. If this movie was called Arthur Fleck, no one would be talking about it. So at least a big blockbuster that dismantles blockbusters is interesting. Yeah, I guess, but it's like, I guess I don't agree with the approach into this conversation. It's like just provoking is not the same as being provocative, I guess. Ooh, I like that. What's what you take out of the movie theater experience?

It's like, yeah, there are a lot of gripes and stuff, but I have left the movie. with a lot on my mind that has stayed on my mind and it's turned over in my mind and there's a conversation happening and not every movie inspires that and I think it's legitimate to at least pin that to a movie's lapel and be like oh well there's at least that. I'm not sure that

got misinterpreted. I'd in no way called everyone that didn't like the movie an insal. I'm saying that people that idolize characters like a taxi driver and Jordan Belford. I think there's a large community of people that don't understand the subject. I am voting for Trump now. Ah, this movie inspired some choices. You're like I feel compelled to harm my fellow man petitioning for that too

I'm going to start being very public about all my political views moving forward I just don't want like the misinterpretation of like if you didn't like this movie I have no problem with that like it's an odd black and white thing that people are interpreting I don't mind people not liking this movie I'm saying it's interesting we're talking about something that has layers you know what I like though

Chris Whamoff Chris Wammoth Thank you so much making the nonstop rambling work Yes thank you Normally, I want to have input, but also, Chris, thank you for the pause. Normally, these live streams, we, like, go through a lot of the opinions, and then we just kind of stick to, like, this stream lives and super dads,

and now we're just, like, uh, we're just got a zigzag in between, like, our own conversation between us. And then this and then this and then this. We haven't been able to really converse with each other about it. Yeah, we haven't spoken at all. Greg and I texted that night, and I was more excited to be like, someone to talk to about this. And now I feel like we're doing it live, but it's causing pure chaos.

awesome. I'm sorry if any of you felt insulted. That was never my intent. And I really hope that's the conversation. Chris, we love you, buddy. Seriously, when are you? I mean it when I say that when you get married, I would love to attend. Is it this year?

Like, in the next, in the next year? I think sometime in the next 365 days at least. Hell yeah. I really want to attend your wedding. I think that would be so fun. It would be. It's just like some random dude. Just in the audience.

Carrying the ring up. Hey, what's up? I would like to meet the whamoffs. Like, I think meeting the family. Whamoff would be awesome. That would be so good. Because anyone that made this wholesome of a person has to be great.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, what kind of wholesome family creates the Chris Whamoff experience? Like, I want to know, I feel like it's just a bunch of Paddington's. Like, just a bunch of, like, Paddington bear good people. Yeah.

Oh. Right? Just like a whole family of Paddington Bears. Thank you, Chris. So, so appreciate it. Fuzzy Otter pause. Fondering that Joker was the highest grossing R-rated movie until Deadpool and Wool

Wolverine, and now the sequel comes out a couple months later and does the opposite of not doing well. Yeah, that is a little bit funny. Zazi Beetz returns, though, for this movie, but not Depple and Wolverine. Oh, that is interesting. Two sequels to have giant all-rated films. Also, since Lady Gaga's Harley Quinn, does she sing Joker Face? She should sing Bad Romance. She made a whole album alongside this movie.

I haven't heard it yet. I don't think in one part of this conversation that I ever say I expect. to this joker to fight Batman. I don't even think you need the Batman part of it. I don't, I just feel like there's a lot that this feels too antithetical. I feel using Bruce Wayne establishes

that it's not going to happen, but I don't think you expected it to happen. I don't think you're not one part of me. Expected that to happen. That's what you're texting me about. You're like, where was Batman? What comic was this? Why? Did he fight that kid? This was the time he punched his bat back. He was going to punch that child with his face.

Also, since late, Yeah, you know, I think the choice for them to sing in camera, too, is especially because so much of it is just going into the fantasy of someone's mind. That's what I mean. Like, dude, I get it. Laymiz, cool movie they sang in camera, but that movie is a pure musical from beginning to end where those are the scenes moving forward. We're talking strictly a fantasy movie where they're going into the mind and having it. I think singing in camera actually detracted from the scene. the musical experience because it fucks with the audio.

Well, they didn't go into the mind is the problem. You watch them emote on face. But yeah, you don't actually transport anywhere. And it's like, yeah, doing the naturalistic camera might not lend itself to a fantastical musical number. But also, yeah, like some dynamics there would have been nice or some variety there would have been nice. Yeah.

That was such a weird choice to me. Especially when it's a movie about someone disillusioned with the world escaping through music. to not escape through music. I like it half the time, because, like, the vocal performances sometimes are not, like, that flattering or perfect, and that's cool. But, yeah, like, transcend. It needed to transcend. Well, like, okay, the in-camera one, when he's on the phone, leaving a voice message for Harley,

that's, like, a great call to sing in-camera. Yeah, agree, totally. But most of them. Yeah, that could have been after. Again, fly out the walls. Get an ensemble, do some crazy lighting and set work, and, yeah, go full. big band go full polished music and then come back down to earth

as a segue out for certain moments absolutely. Damn V-900 my man! I have a lot of problems with this film but one thing no one is talking about is how the guards kill the inmate that's important. And then whenever there's something like that, people go, maybe it's just in his head, you know? Yeah, that's really

a cop-out. It's not addressed at all afterwards. We see Arthur beat him by them. I think he's are worded by the guards too. Yeah, I didn't understand that. Or assaulted in some way. sexually assaulted. I think that that's mainly just a comment on the fact that

in especially the 80s and whatever else and in an institution like this, the guards can do what they want and no one will step in to put any consequence to that, which I mean is not that deep of a comment, but I feel like that's the comment. Yeah. And just people in that system are violated in every way, but like it didn't

really add anything. I mean, these sound like things from accounts of actual just misbehavior and mental institutions and prisons of like things that could have. but it felt like they tried to make it pointed and it didn't. The safe thing, here was the interpretation I was trying to get about, because

someone brought it up, and we're going to continue to super chats in a second, is because as you're on the subject of Dammey 900s, the grape scene. Grapes! That's the safe word. Got it. I'm so good. I believed you. I was like, there's a scene with crazes. I think like that's the moment

of, like, after that moment happens, you see Arthur still trying to laugh, but he's slowly losing it when he's thrown into his cell and he hears the person get murdered off of the consequence of supporting him. So I do think it contributes again to the Arthur Fleck journey of him coming back down to reality here of like, here's what just happened to me. I can't, there's these consequences that happen that I just can't handle. You know, like he gets assaulted by the guards. And then before that, that's when he has the conversation with Gary

on the trial. So I think it contributes to the compounding effect of what makes him realize, like, I can't just live this joke. Yeah. So I do think there's a purpose to it. It took a little bit of reflection, though, to be like, is that what they're doing? Because when I first thought, I was like, what is that? It was one of those moments that happens in the movie where I'm like, is this just Todd Phillips trying to be like edgy right now? You know? Yeah, and I felt like that a lot of the movie. Like, especially in the first two acts where I was like, oh, it's like, you know,

propaganda towards being edgy. And that scene I didn't translate until like two days later as a just cumulative effect, but it felt so pointed. It didn't feel like it was adding to a thing. It felt like, this is the thing, and then it didn't translate. Yeah. All right.

All right. Okay, here we go. Here we go. Going. I've triggered the audience. It's okay. Of course you would. Because I said that I hope they like it if they didn't. I don't mind. I've triggered them. I actually grew Greg on this movie, I think he's still completely wrong about the marbles. You know, I haven't revisited the marvels,

and I'm wondering if I would actually be like, yeah, it's fine, on, like, a rewatch? Most stuff is, and it's fine on the rewatch. I'm actually wondering if, like, on a rewatch, and like, whatever. But isn't it milk toast kind of worse? Isn't it, like, being bland? I'd rather something to be awful than fine.

Conceptually, yes, but when you walk out in your mood is just like, ah, you know, it's fine. Like, I don't know. I'm less if I'm mad about it than I'm mad. I think serviceable is like just unacceptable. I think serviceable is how we're going to get these committee movies. Like all these like fan groups they're talking about forming. Yeah, that's, I know that's like serviceable movies are worse than bad movies to me.

I'd rather watch Megalopoulos again, which I did not enjoy it. There's a bit of a conversation to be had about sometimes they do bring in people who are like not fans at all. And sometimes do seem to have like a bit of an FU attitude towards like the intellectual properties. you know like oh this definitely does that's what i think why ryan reynolds is fucking a g because he he knows the fans and he also knows how to take like some swings you know without going into such a different direction to piss off anyone you know and i think that's like what we need a little bit more of like a ryan reynolds he's a marketing genius that also knows narrative and that's that's i think why he does such good marketing is he understands both sides of the equation the show and the business

and i don't think there's anyone else like him in in the space right now I think the friction can make for interesting good art. I don't want a Ryan Reynolds for everything, but I might agree that certainly this would be a more agreeable movie in the hands of someone who loves Joker and comics. I think Matt Reeves doing what he's doing with Penguin is that. It's like the first movie worked, and that's coming from the guy who doesn't,

who, you know, has that friction. Well, I think, like, if you look at Matt Reeves is a good point because, like, if you look at the Batman, you literally have, like, a nirvana emo bat. Batman. Like, if you were to tell someone that, you'd be like, that sounds so stupid and pretentious. Yeah. Like, what? Like, who's going to want to watch that after Ben Affleck and Christian Bail? And then it ends up being like, arguably the best Batman. Yeah. So I think that's what I mean is because he understood completely why at this point in his life he would be that way. And he completely understood

what the audience needed to see differently. Yeah. I think he understands the audience as well as the character. And that's that sweet spot. Yes. And. And. So I think you need filmmakers who have that sweet spot. And that's why I'm so excited for more shows in that else world. Like what he's building is its own thing. And that's why I don't want it to touch anything in the regular shared universe. Yeah, but I think bringing in fans, take rings of power, which I love dealing with that fan base so much,

is that there's plenty of people who make compelling arguments for why it honors Tolkien. And then there's plenty that make arguments for why it doesn't. So I'm like, you can't just bring in some fans to be like, Well, here's what it is, because they're just going to piss off the other fans. I think it's such a short-sighted idea, and it's like almost as bad as AI. It's just a neutral conglomerant of theft.

Like, it's just a little bit of an idea, a little bit of an idea, oh, it's neutral. Art isn't meant to be neutral. Yeah, it's just another market testing. It's just another form of test screen. But I'm afraid of giving them power. Right now it's a reaction. If we give them the top of the,

instead of the bottom of the mountain. Like, when something's done and you go, like, how's that, let's tweak? Not like, create. And which. fans are you getting to decide what all the fans think blah blah blah right you know i know some people don't like the chat being on screen but i like it because when you do the playback you're you're you get to see your name and faces on the playback yeah so you're in the video with us and we also like saying

your name and some people don't like that but i like it joe for show great name do you guys think at any part uh of todd phillips mind he kind of said eh that's good enough yeah i do actually I think that for a lot of the musical numbers, too, is like in the editing. Yeah, maybe he was frustrated with W when they asked him to make it. I don't know why I'd be frustrated. They gave him so much money. And he could literally, like, leave the country and, like, sip, you know, whatever. What do people drink?

Chai. My tie. My tie's tea on the beach. I don't actually agree that I had never got the vibe of this movie that. anything was like, I don't really care, do whatever. Like, I felt like whatever choices got made, like, were made intentionally, and with, like,

a drive behind them, I just don't always think that they were focused, or they amounted to what they hoped they would. But I didn't get the sense that they were sleepwalking through this. I thought the good enough is more about focus than quality. I think there were times where he had a vision, and he saw the vision, but he didn't

double check the vision. I think that was like, that's the scene, I thought. I really felt like so much of the courtroom drama the scenes were shot like like a like a network television show I feel like a lot of that was just and maybe that's because there was so much

lackluster writing and a lot of it was just recounting and and based and like very generic like yeah we know that from the first movie already of whatever your interpretation of Arthur is it like there's a couple of really of course like the most highlighted scene is the moment Gary

it's the best scene in the movie it's the best scene in the movie for for most people um but yeah i do think a lot of that was uh shot flat like there's like no for some reason my mind would hop to that that's the other part about that i thought like there was so much mispotential that if you're gonna do your fucking clever hey look at harvey dent's face burnt in half here moment oh he's gonna become two face and they just pan over it isn't that's gonna be clever it's like well maybe you should have done something with harvey dent that shows that creates, as Koy likes to say, a dichotomy with the character. As the character is.

That shows, like, hey, maybe there's a darkness in this guy instead of the most generic DA character. Why was he a child? In a dad's suit. Why was that man? There's something about the Joker that's bringing out an aggression in him. Yeah. You know, then, then you have an awesome part with him becoming two-faced.

Not just, oh, my face is burnt in half. Now I'm going to become evil. That's all I had was my face. Now I'm bad. I've heard people call him. Smarmy Dent, and the one thing I missed from that character is, like, I never really believed that he was like the good

aspiration of Harvey Dent. I never really believed that. I was like, I could totally see how this guy would be like a villainous two-faced character. Yeah, Smarmy Dent's accurate. Yeah. The React show, what's up, buddy? The guards never face consequences for Grape, Joker. Yeah, they didn't. A favorite flavor.

But I got to say, I got to say, that bread and Gleason man he knows how to hold up oh man that is what a force Paddington and Bruges his own Irish King actually we haven't theorized at all like do you at the very end of the movie when they said there's a visitor no I don't think there was I think it was the guard setting them up

you think he like made some agreement with this psychopath I think the guards wanted him dead so they let it happen personally I think you're supposed to think it's Harley and then it never was you don't think it was Batman oh is Batman He's now age nine, and he's like, I have to visit Mr. Jay. I'm a child. I've been thinking about that moment at the gate. Two years ago.

Frankly, maybe he's my brother. I should go check in on my potential brother. No, I think it was a setup to kill him. I thought it could have been. Yeah, like who would be visiting him? I was, fascinated by that. Yeah, I was like, who is the visitor? Who could it be?

I think it was to get him alone in a hallway. I really would have liked to have a favorite read. like one of my sequel pitch ideas forever ago was to do cult of joker and part of that was that the crowd that the people follow in him would realize that he's not stand he doesn't truly stand for any of the things that they thought he stood for and so that's part of like what i like that this movie sort of does at the end is like oh he's not our representative for the things we have anguished towards that's why i love that scene with the two guys dressed as joker and him literally running from running away from yeah there's there's i got to get credit great shot yeah the whole i love i love a wonder a lot of people think they're gimmicky now but i love them there's a lot of them in this movie yeah but the explosion one was really sad one or yeah to go out from the courthouse yeah there's some hidden cuts but to go to out from the courthouse and into the car and then onto the streets i thought was pretty cool yeah i agree i like i like i'll throw it to the cinematography because throughout the movie i would notice like oh there's

these a really long choreograph takes and they're not the kind of one i think what what's trite about a oneer now is a lot of oneers are going look we're a water and there's so many of them in this movie that aren't doing that let you realize like oh we haven't cut have we but that's also why the courtroom stuff like you said being kind of was like oh but we did so much cool stuff let's stay

cool yeah Michelle I can't stick around as I'm heading to work wanted to send some love but loving all the Instagram content lately thank you so much put so much work into that Roxie Strider especially has been killing it Greg have you moved on to reading Iron Flame yet I'm going to start

it this weekend. Guys, I read a book. Oh, you read a book! I read my first fiction book in many, men. I don't remember the last one I read a fictional book. Like, you read it off the paper. Right it. With an audio drama.

They have audio dramas now where you can, literally people are acting out everything and their sound effects. You read it too? And I read it too. So simultaneous, you got the visual anything on you? Yeah. That's cool. It's really, it actually is very, very, very cool.

And, uh, but there's, I made of Instagram, a Twitter one that, TikTok one that actually did really well was about there's one where there's like these characters are just like it's like several pages of them like having their first sex scene together. Do they squelch wetly?

And it's like when you're reading it it's not bad. It's like a little naughty book. But you're like filling in so much white on that page. His turgid members pulses. There's so much noise going on man.

The turgid members is my dad. But I'm excited. And they're adapting it. I think it's Amazon who got the rights to four-way. Everyone's talking about that book. People love it. It's great book for billions of dollars. Your wife was the first person I heard about it.

Talk about it. Now it's everywhere. She's got tattoo on her back for it. She's ahead of the curve. Jason Ackers. That looks like Jensen Ackles. If I squint my eyes. Hello, Jensen Ackles.

She's got tote. It seems like a deconstruction of masculinity. A modern film that helped the growing percentage of downtroddened men in the country to feel seen for once rather than being castigated. Is it castrated for their nature? Castigate's word. No, what's castigated? I don't know

that word. It's kind of being ostracized for, to be judged by, to be put on a different, like, level because of their nature. Hey, Siri, what is it? I've been castigating. I've never... Rapidly castigate. I've actually never heard that word. Castigate.

Reprimand someone severely. Oh, what's your thing? Is another definition there? Yeah. Oh. Good word. I learned a new word. I would have just assumed you were saying castrated. Yes, perhaps.

I wonder if Todd Phillips would say that. Or he's just like, I don't know, I was trying to make something cool. This feels like an attempt to undo that as a response to the reaction from many that seem to fear being, fear men being men without major concessions and subservience. I can kind of see what you're getting. I mean, somebody in the chat echoed the sentiment that I think Todd Phillips himself was like The first movie is about, like, you know, a lack of empathy in culture and, and, yeah, the toxicity that can kind of grow out of that. So, yeah, I mean, I feel like the first movie at least explores and acknowledges that person and goes, like, well, what happened around to make this person possible and what should we look at ourselves and maybe change to, you know, to heal that?

the second movie I'm kind of curious to revisit to see you know the thematic nature of the second movie didn't feel quite as unified because it's not as like beating you over the head with a specific idea as the first movie is but yeah I mean absolutely like I think the Gary Puddle scene is sort of a treatise on the masculinity it's this thing that made you feel so powerful

made me feel so small and insignificant and terrified and that's you know what it's the shableness side of the masculine archetype versus the light side that, you know, I feel like you could have used Harvey Dent even to, like, try and represent, yeah, like that kind of dichotomy or something, I don't know. You don't have really,

you still don't have very many good examples of any kind of thing in either of these movies. I think it's also dangerous to assume. In terms of, like, positive examples of a certain type of character. I mean, no one's got, I mean, no one's positive. These films are so bleak. Yes. Like, there's not a positive element in the film itself. There's positive to the conversation,

but I also think it's dangerous to assume anyone's nature for being, I don't know, like, I always struggle with masculinity as a one-note thing. So I think, I think Todd Phillips addressing people's judgment is one thing, but I don't assume that just because a man is a man that he's going to act a certain way. Yeah, look at you two. But what about the life, what about the, you know,

the mantra of all life, you know, boys will be boys. Oh, that's true. They will be. And that's like one of the old. his quotes in human history. If you say it, it's true. Boys will be, in fact. Bros. Before hoes. Also a statement. Also repeated. Justin and

the CEO's cinema cannot believe how awful it was. Just dreadful. I mean, he's the CEO of cinema, so frankly, that's why it's not doing well. Yeah, I mean, if you say so. Well, it's got the lowest comic book movie score. Of all time. Which I don't, I find

that hard to believe that it is lowest in cinema score apparently started being cinema scores. But I'm like, can't be the worst comic book movie of all time. I thought the crow was worse. I thought the novels was worse. Yeah, I don't believe this authentically. Maybe as a review bomb scenario.

I thought Madam Webb this year was worse. Like, that was this year. Well, and yes. Like, that literally had 80% of the film. There's more worth deconstructing in Joker fully as you. There's nothing to deconstructed Madam Webb. Well, I think the disappointment of Joker 2 hits so much, for those who are disappointed, hits so much.

harder, though. I think Megalopoulos is worse, and it's playing now. I agree, expectation, but, like, Francis Ford Copeland is making that for 30 years, so to parallel the disappointment. Like, that man made the godfather. That's for, like, cinefiles who give a shit. Like, it's like, Joker won, it was, like, a few years ago. I mean, a billion dollars, you know?

So the expectation of current day. And I'm, I fully acknowledge that, like, I am interested in and open to the second movie, partly as somebody who didn't, like, love the first movie. Like, I liked and appreciated parts of it and didn't like other aspects of it. So maybe that's also like people

who love the first movie might feel quite different. Wow. Coy thinks the crow with Brandon Lee is worse than Joker. You know how much I hate Proyas is the crow. I don't talk about it positively ever. I got a lot of vitriol for the Brandon Lee.

Eddie Furlong is the only crow in my heart. Yeah, that's it. There's just no, the unmade Bradley Cooper crow with Cornrose is the only Ted Cannon Joe. Jason McCrow. Oh man, what a crow he would have been. And I hate the soundtrack to the first crow, too. It's one of the worst soundtracks ever made. I'm going to clip that. Please don't.

I love that movie. Jehacio Parra. Joker 1 is in my top 10 comic book movies of all time. I'm not watching Joker 2. Crazy fall off. You kind of have to watch you because it completes the story and just the way you want it. Go see for yourself.

It's really a two-parter. Go see for yourself. I don't know. If you like the first one, go see for yourself. I think you should always make up your own mind. I really do. I think you should always make it. Especially in a divisive. They'll turn on you.

You'll very upset. No, no, no. We should, you have to argue for that. Well, these are the weird movies where people are like, okay, okay, don't listen to, don't listen to anybody. Don't listen to critics when, like, critics don't like something. But then when everybody else is out here, like, you know, complaining or saying something's bad, then everyone's like, well, then I'm just

never going to see it. It's really hard because if you say something is good that people don't like, you're reviled for going against the grain, but then any time someone likes it, they're like, you just like it because it's popular. and people want movies that make you think but then if movie makes you think then it's not free I don't know it's just I think the internet was a mistake

that's the takeaway really because I'm creepy sure sure absolutely Justin back at it Coy has nothing to do with insults the movie is just bad get through your thick skull coy through your thick masculine skull yeah man my masculinity is really upset by people

not liking my opinion about a movie that I just like and not loved I just I just don't agree with just bad He's not talking about Brandon Lee's goats. There's some bad stuff in there. Hoy is talking about Brandon Lee's crow. I want everyone to know that. Only that.

In fact, all of my comments have only been about the crow. I've been pretending they are about Joker. But you actually gave a really positive comment to the Bill Scarscar. I thought much like Joker, if it wasn't called the Crow, it would have been an interesting Gothic love story. Jason Eckers. Not a good movie. It's called the Crow.

It's called Joker. At the end of the day, it's called these things. I like movies. If it wasn't this, then it's this, though. But you don't get movies. See, Joker Fullyadieu is absolutely a sequel to Joker, and that is why I don't necessarily agree with that. Because if you're going to feel this way,

I feel like you should have felt this way in the first movie then. But the Crow is a great example of if they hadn't called them Shelley and Eric. Oh, my God, thank you. The character you hate. I literally play by Brandon Lee, who you also hate. Because of my hatred of Brandon, if they hadn't called them Eric and Shelley and they just let it be a passing on of the crow

mantle, I would have liked it more. And that's what I mean, like, the crow to me is Eric and Shelley. If this had just been another crow, I would have liked it more, because I think Gothic glove stories like this are interesting and they don't make movies like that. And so many people got mad that I liked characters doing drugs. Like, guys, drugs are important. So, like, I think it's

really important. You've got to tell that side of the story, too. If characters do drugs, they are bad. That's how movie works. What a Reaganomics, like, take on, or a Nancy Reagan take on society. It's just, it's really tricky to make a movie in 2024 and have more than a $5 budget unless it's tied to an IP and that's because of the internet. Like again, unless there's a oh my God, explain this ending when it's obvious. Or like, look at all these Easter eggs. Oh my God, yeah, they put that in it. No one's watching them anymore. So that's why these filmmakers have to

tie stuff to IP, even if it betrays the IP, I'm glad art got made. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's good. That's fair. Like, I want movies to get made. I want art. And because if you get a movie in theaters and then you make the next thing, and the next thing, you can then get to make five movies if one of them does well. Like, I just want people to make things, and, like, for some reason, is the hottest take, and people hate it, but, like, don't watch me. Joker 2 is, like, a unique

piece of art, and you don't get that much. It's just that, like, the execution is obviously very debatable, but, like, yeah, it's at least interesting. Way more interesting than a lot of just, like, flat, it's fine stuff that you see. And, like, that's the bummer. I'm like, ah, God, they got all the

resources and the means and the, you know, lack of interference of some variety to be able to take a swing like this and I'm glad that that was able to happen but also the response is a bummer because now because this is tanking and doing so poorly they'll probably be more

averse to making more interesting broad comic movies. That's what I'm worried about. Journey's kind of boring that's why people don't like a lot of these things. That's also fair. When it all comes down to it, it's like but the movie itself is kind of dull

for a lot of people. That's, and I'm not saying it is a 6.5. I'm not saying, I think both things are true at the same time. I also think if they've changed the articles on two of these movies we're talking about, this is called A Joker and A Crow, great. Real, like, they're not.

Real art can be boring. But there's a difference between real art that's boring and, like, a product that's met, and also boring. I think a lot of Daniel Day Lewis movies are boring. He's fantastic in them. But, like, you know, I didn't get... There are great movies that are boring. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

That's a better way to say. There are great movies that are boring. Do we look, apparently we look like hyperblown out. Oh, no. Oh, good. That's what they've been saying in the chat. Let me pull it up on the phone as well. I'm back to me in a good mood.

My blood sugar's back. And someone asks, this is a Cougatow? Oh, yeah, we do. We look hyperblown out. Oh, wow. We're on the sun. Okay. We can adjust that.

Oh, God. I wish you guys could see what we look like on OBS. Oh, we look great here. We look so perfect. To us. Which is what matters. And on the phone, we look. Fine.

On the computer? On the computer? We don't. We need to, like, talk to, like, a YouTube representative to fix this. Hello, Mr. YouTube. We're blown out. And it's weird that it should be, like... Stop talking.

Good. Like, last week, it was pretty good, I feel like, and then this week, it's... Yeah. A little, I don't know. We can adjust the lighting, though. Jason Ackers. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Boyd.

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Not even us. WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. I just mailchimp my marketing. You mail-chimped your what? I mail-chimped my marketing with AI to create an effective marketing campaign in minutes. MailChimp and way. Yes, MailChimp in way.

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Visit MailChimp.com. The idea that this character is some sort of insult a hero is reductive and naive, you bitch. Taking the murderous and insane part out It's a story of a weak man Learning to stand up for himself By killing six people You sound very well-rounded I'm glad he started up for himself

And ended lives He ended the right lives Did he? Murray He was got to mean He probably had family Probably had people that loved him Murderer

What about those CEOs That those Wall Street guys On the subway Knock them around Man Those guys would never mature out of that phase they were beating him up they were beating him up they deserved to die

and I hope they burn and hell so nice on the phone I don't get it they were literally beating him up and they were all CEOs also the 30 seconds that he lasted with Lady Gaga in this film pretty much proved he was in cell so that was quite a choice

to make that scene as like uncomfortable and sweaty I've never done this before like this is not romantic. It was a bad romance. This is not a cathartic. I think that's intentional,

but it's like not cathartic. You guys are so... Yes, I think all insults are murder. That's what I'd say. I like that scene. Oh, I thought it was great. I like it too. A lot of people bitch about that scene.

I like that it was off-putting. It's kind of actually perfect for murder. I know it's the good choice. It's the choice to make there. Yeah. Don't do a decadent and sex scene there. Please do not. Yeah, that would not work.

Solid way of telling us he's a variety. virgin, too, without saying your virgin. That's what I'm saying. That thing is amazing. Yeah, so much, there's so much there. And in the brevity of that scene, too, because it is, like, pretty brief. Lawrence Liles is going to get me canceled

because I mentioned incels. Well, no one's going to get him canceled. All that shady through it, Brendan Lee's, the corrupt... That's true. My hatred of the cure and of Nine Edge Nails and that soundtrack. Coy was out here, like, nothing I would change about the production of that movie. Nothing at all. Zero things I would

change about any of that. So, John, what if we just, like, dip those lights way back? Would that make any difference? It's either that, or we take down, like, the gamma a little bit or something like that. Then we're not going to be Hulk. The gamma is. We need it. Yeah, I don't know what gamma means.

I don't know. I was just, it's like a thing to say. The bright, it's the bright. It's one of the things that affects the brights. Are we slowly getting gamma radiation then? Is that what's happening? Reg, you're a sheep. That's my hate comment.

There it is. I'm an evil day walk. Will Bill Billy hates me with such a passion. I feel like he wants to fuck. me. It's all right, dude. You should. We all have opinions

and we all have our haters. Yeah, I should do it. I'm just giving them shouting out love. At least your haters have faces in their profile picks sometimes. That's a cat. I got like a boring. That's a cat in a fez.

Oh, that's true. That's not a person. Yeah, you know, like a lot of people who are dicks in the comments right now, you guys should at least show your faces. I mean, it's honest. I'm going to get canceled for another comment from KKKKKK, who is a K and no name at all.

Yeah, what are you going to do? I don't know what I said, even though it's going to get canceled, but I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it. If we can get away with interviewing people, we can get away. We're talking about incels.

Here we are. Will Bill, Billy. I think, I've publicly stated, I think heat is very overrated. I've gotten so much shit for that, but I guess I'm still a sheep. Greg, didn't like this movie. I don't know how you're a sheep.

I didn't like it. Sheeple. I hate Robert Smith. I don't think, I think the misinterpretation of sarcasm is going to be really tricky on this particular lie. Oh, sure.

I only give deep dive opinions to be called the sheep. That's how it is. You only get deep dive opinions to be called. I did 25 minutes of Joker review. Just to say, just to completely trivialize your opinion. It's all it takes. It's just one word that triggers certain people that probably need to get laid more. How's the lighting now, gang?

Sound off. Dude, it doesn't matter. Alexander Rivera. This movie is a rough watch. But yeah, thank you for the super chat, my friend. But yeah, Arthur is disturbed, and that's it. he is bad so he doesn't get a happy ending he kind of got a happy ending

if we don't get the happy ending as the audience by seeing him become the Joker we and Harley wants him to be yeah I think that's the beautiful through line of an eyeline character and I think they did a really good job establishing it I think the audience wanting that character to be that and then feeling betrayed is so well done with Per

I would not be excited for a happy ending or he just becomes the joke yeah that would have not worked that would have been the two that I felt until that point range. Yeah, like, I don't know. I don't think that would compliment even the first movie. I feel like, I don't know. I think there could, like, as one of John's favorite

words, propulsive, I think, like, again, it's just nothing really quite created this momentum. Yeah. Or, like, there was this thing that they had in their script, obviously, where there's, there's an argument being had. I'm trying not to say coy's word, too,

by the way. That comment is. Which comment? Ender key. what commander kean in the chat made me like fully break like that is comment i mean there's two thoughts there's two women who obviously arthur has conflicted affection for him he straight up kisses uh goes for a kiss for her is his attorney and and harley quinn and both have completely different point of views one

saying you are Arthur, you're disturbed, mentally ill person who needs help. And then the other is Harley saying, no, Joker's your true identity. I want to see the real you. That's who you truly are. And that that conversation of that between these two components who are also like his replacement maternal figures somehow only being met like 40% of the way. And I think that's where I think a lot of the propulsion could have, like, I didn't feel the heart break at the end, when Harley's like, feels like

abandoned. I think it did on the stairs, but not enough. I was more like, I'd be in a dick, Harley. I was more like, that's short-sighted. It's kind of mean, but, you know, I'm also kind of on his mood, man, so I'm all right, you know. Like, I didn't really feel much for that.

And I felt like a lot of there, like, I thought there was an interesting idea there. But again, it doesn't fully, like just go there. Yeah, I agree and I would have liked that. I like the way you're describing it actually more than the movie

delivered it. And that's a lot of our conversation I think for the three of us. Yeah. A lot of what we're saying makes the movie sound more interesting than the actual experience was. And who did you say, said it?

Like, it's better to talk about the movie than actually watched the movie. I think it was Alonzo DeRoll. Yeah, I completely agree with that. But I do think it is better to have that than have no conversation at all. So if the movie causes that. That's why I want to see it again.

is to see if any of these thoughts that have arisen and these feelings that have arisen since the first viewing have any bearing on the second viewing or if I watch it again and go, oh yeah, this was just as kind of, oh no, yes. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. This hurts me fundamentally.

This like actually gives me pain. We'll get to it. This is the best part of us. People are actually going to think you know. Don't crow down. Oh, God, that hurts my soul. Don't correct any much. People are going to get confused and think that you hate

the Bill Scars Garzger. Crow now. Your favorite movie of the past decade. It really is. It really got me. We can't abandon the stream labs. Oh, God. We can't. Hey, man. Look, it's kind of wild to me that you prefer the Bill Scarsgar version over the everyone knows. Oh, yeah. It goes Bill

and then Edward Furlong. Mark DeCos goes to show that you're a shill for these studios. Guys, that Rupert Sanders tattoo is healing up nicely. I'm going to really just... What would be what's on your Rupert Sanders tattoo toy? It's just like a really close. I don't know what he looks like.

but I got an anonymous white guy's face. I'm like, that's Rupert Sanders. That's my man right there. Oh, man. I'm going to put on my FCA Twigs album and pop out of here. This is maybe my favorite live chat in a while, though. I'm very entertained. We've turned Will Bill Billy who now wants our bodies.

This is fascinating. Dan V-900 has also brought up that I know wrong ones, sorry. Don't even be sorry. It happens. Oh, wait a minute. No, no, no, no. Yeah, okay, it's this one.

I know people bring up all the time how Joe made $1 billion gazillion dollars. It's still crazy to me that it almost made $2 million more than the rise of Skywalker's in R-rated over in China. It was so successful, we got a sequel that wasn't needed. Yeah, he didn't want to make a sequel. They all said that, like, we're done.

He didn't want to make a sequel. Then that dump truck of money backed up real slow to Casa Phillips. I was like, oh, I feel like if they're making a sequel, they must have something they really want to do. And you know what we'll say. It seems like there was something. he wanted, I feel like he needed

another draft, maybe another, like, two to three drafts on the script. Yeah, I agree. But I'm not going to say there's nothing he didn't want to say. I just wish you'd said it a little like, faster. A little better. I don't think this is lacking for inspiration. I feel like they did rise to the occasional

like, well, how would we continue this? Even if I would have done something's different. Listen, guys, in the chat, as long as you can keep going, trying to define what the word insult means. It's really got Also, it's very funny that people think that I'm referring to everyone that liked Joker 1 is that when I identify with someone who likes Joker 1. And frankly, I love the booty. So I don't know what the interpretation of also the sarcasm back and forth.

It's just, it's fascinating. I'm having a time. There are so many threads to that that I'm trying to, you know, gather here. It's going to be clipped on some messages. The booty where we got the booty. I mean, apparently you can't like Joker and the booty. So which way is it? What does it mean?

I enjoyed this movie as an else world Joker movie NB says thank you for the stream lab but when I also watch Coy's review he said it's more of a clown than a Joker movie that changed my experience to Joker 1 and Joker 2 in a good way question for all three of you did Joker 2 make Joker 1 worse in a weird way for me it did both it highlighted because Because this movie's doing so much of the same shit, so much of the same kind of commentary. And I'm like, well, the first one does it better. And the first one tells a better movie overall, a better execution. And even if it's not trying to say as much what it is saying, I think is better, more refined.

And so I'm like, it actually highlights how to do it right or how to do it stronger. and then at the same time because this is the completion of that story it kind of makes it worse for me. I can see that. Joker 2 It's not like watching Terminator 3 or Terminator Salvation.

That just doesn't happen. Let me disregard that. This definitely. Joker 2 didn't really change my opinion on the first movie. It may be underlined or highlighted like I said before. I think Joker 1.

Joker is a movie that I've been back and forth on over time in various ways and I feel like this highlighted for me that I think the first Joker movie is less spiritually interesting but a tighter more like imminently watchable

movie and it just kind of solidified my feeling on that but I don't it's weird like I had like I said I had the opposite experience from the first Joker whereas like the first one I it kind of felt it would start falling apart in my mind

thinking about it, whereas this one accrued more interesting value to it, the more I've thought about it. So, you know, I feel about the same about the first Joker on. It's a great comment. The Superman Returns answer. Maybe. Victor Petino's right. That would be so fun.

That baby is the Joker. I would love if they actually embrace that and made a Joker three like that. Just a little kid. What if that's the Superman and James Guns Superman? That's that baby from Lee Quinn. To answer briefly, thank you, wonderful for watching my review. really wanted to at least have a conversation because I do think the way we watch movies

is a little broken. I think as long as there's a conversation to come out of it, there is the art succeeded. If you're having the conversation about, like, you felt something you're having it. So for me, this art succeeded because it made me think, it made me want to converse. It made me want to share ideas and sharing ideas is the last thing we humans have as we lose society, and AI

takes over everything. I'm sure. Warner Brothers feels like they succeeded too. Oh, yeah, they definitely. The suits are like, we made so many negative dollars. But I do think, Art. But art. They're there for the art.

But I do think that the first film never felt like it was the Joker to me. I know it's called The Joker. So it didn't invalidate the first film for me. If anything, I feel more validated in my own personal interpretation because as soon as I saw Bruce Wayne, I was like, well, that's a baby. And that's not the Joker. So this made a Joker, the first film, and A Joker, Folly Adieu, very interesting. And I really like that we're having a conversation about how, well, we're not

currently, we're just yelling at people like this movie. but maybe a few dozens of people will have a conversation about the sensationalization of violence versus the people committing the violence. We should probably worry about what we're doing to people that makes them feel like violence is the answer.

What we're doing to people to make people in live chats validate six murders. I think it's a problem. Lawrence Liles. I saw John. Part of the experience of art is that you can have

like a changing, growing, morphing opinion. So just like, You're just a little pansy. I don't agree with the idea that you have to know exactly how you felt and it's never going to change. The second you saw it and no amount of revisitation or reflection can change that. That's why you can't run for president. Yeah.

If you guys say so, I won't. If that's what you guys want to do it. I won't do it. Thank you guys. For presidents about shoving your opinion, your point of view, not listening. That's it mean you just got one. And you only have one opinion the rest of your life. You better form it early.

I think debates are kind of. appointment. Yeah. Well, the internet doesn't, they already know what they're doing. They already know who they're voting for. They don't care about actual things. Also, I always thought that Arthur Fleck was a joke on Affleck. I always thought his name was Affleck to be joking about Batman at all. This all felt like a joke to me. I've always thought he was trolling, like the team behind it. So

I thought the big troll of us now is funny. Yeah, it's funny movie. And the title, you know, fully adieu, this is a folly and we bid you adieu. There's so many layers of like screw you if you want to read it that way. If you choose to. If you want to. Yeah. Good. Good. So I hope that answers your question.

Thank you for watching my reviews. Armani Martinez. Harvey is assistant DA and Cassid Young, now PTSD. Yep. That's his arc right there. In that else world, he's just like shell-shocked and two-face. That'll be the two-face Joker Universe movie. It's just about a guy struggling between the light side and the traumatized side of his personality.

It doesn't hurt anybody. It's just a guy trying to heal himself internally. And he's going to punch that kid. the face too as he grows up exactly find a little bruce wayne and punch his teeth out caley coy thank you for the super chat i love your review of wild robot i haven't even seen a trailer for it we're gonna react to it everybody's all anyone tells me is i couldn't stop crying now i'm like you're gonna cry a lot dude i cried in that movie oh glad it was on camera i'm sorry i got to live an emotional moment to myself that i thought you'd be happy as my friend gregg i thought

you'd be appreciative that as a person that struggles to cry i got to release some emotion But no, my friend Greg and my business, Greg, are different greggs. If your tears aren't monetized. Then what are they worth dropping for? Well, at least now. That saline went for naught. At least drips on nothing. All right.

There was no cougher to catch the tears. No, guys, at least now I know that I'm allowed to cry and probably should cry if and when I see it because you cried. I did. I did. The release was there. Now I know what to do. Oh, you're like, wait, I feel, well, I mean, according to Lauren's law, without me there, I don't know if you will have an opinion. Now I need to go with you.

That's why I'm glad we talked about. You're cleared. I'm going to be so focused on crying that I'm going to know. You're not going to cry. I'm not going to cry at the wrong scene. That's joy, right? That's everybody's good. You did it wrong.

That's the opening credit. Wrong. It's so good. Hey, last one promise from Charles Smith. Thank you, Charles Smith, to respond to Koi. That's you, the in-sell. No. It's nice.

It's not funny to lie to your audience. Mm. Uh-oh. It's not funny. It's a little funny. Did you guys know Koi? Hates the Brandon Lee Krober. I hate it so much.

It ruins cinema. Joker deserves a film to show his complexities as a psychotic manipulator. Joaquin Phoenix has been wasted on a bad, bad joke. Yes, he has. That's just, there's another version of a Joker movie waiting to be made. Yeah, there's like a billion more. I never expected this to become the quintessential version of the Joker ever. Okay, look, to your point.

To your guys' point, here's what I mean when I'm saying that it went too far. I think it would cross too far along the lines of, like, way too far deviation of Joker. Take Thor Ragnarok. People fucking love Thor Ragnar. That movie is so overhyped. It is not that funny, and it's not Thor. Look, listen, people love it. peg people love it

but that's not what people thought what you said a lot of people didn't think what you just said it literally is the same amount of humorous love and thunder people just like thought it was original they were like hold up for a second okay I'm saying the general reception yes the general reception yes people still didn't feel like they ruined Thor people felt like it was hilarious

and it was cool yep Thor the dark Thor love and thunder does the same thing but people fucking hate that movie you only get Because it went too far in that way. And that's what I would like in this experience, too, but on a different genre intention. It's like, sure, yeah, like the first one, but it doesn't cross the line too far into that territory.

This one, I think, and clearly a lot of the people who watch this movie feel that way, too. I agree with that assessment, and I agree that that's how people feel about it. I felt that way with Ragnarok. I didn't think it was a bad movie. I was just like, that's not Thor. and, like, that's not Hulk. But it was fine as a, like, a constructed film, but that's the difference in, like,

it's the same thing I feel about Agatha. Like, Agatha wasn't made for me, but I can be like, that's well made. Sure. For Love and Thunder, I was like, if people like Ragnarok, maybe this is what people want. So I remember leaving Love and Thunder

being, like, that was good, because I thought that's what I was meant to get from that film. Like, just like Ragnarok, I thought what I was get to get was like, what I wrote jaunt. And then, like, once I settled into thinking about it, two days later, I was like, I think I hated that.

but it took me but like much like John I'm a wallflower I get to have no opinions except for the ones I form right away but like Ragner I told you you like

love love and thunder and hate the pro but I feel like Ragnarok I think Ragnarok's in a lot of people top 10 Marvel movies and it's not like

it's not the character so if if you can judge the movies that you think are betrayal to the character then that should be on that list this is all I'm saying about Ragnarok I'm not saying it's a one to one

comparison No, no, no. But all I'm saying is that if we're going to use the genre argument, I think they're both in that same category of not being the character as told. And I like Love and Thunder. Boy, have I seen crap about it already? Whatever I like or dislike a Marvel movie, there's someone who's about like, yeah, well, you like the love one.

Eternal's is like that's right next to my, right next to my Rupert Sanders tattoo is my Chloe Zhao tattoo. Can't trust the thing this guy says. Did your director's sleeve going on in Thunder? Shea Markell. Why does Greg get to be the pepper? Yeah, he's spot and hot and spicy. That's racist. I'm a red hot chili pepper.

You look at my rat, you've got masses. Greg's the only one of seasoning. John's the one who clearly lets himself get plugged. Yeah. You're full of potassium. And you think you're the Bugs Bunny troll. That's fair. That's fair.

Also, I seek joy instead of whipping, like carrot or stick. I seek happiness. I'll be a carrot. Agent's shield, yep. It just feels great. I don't like network TV. Coy! I want to respect your point of view.

Good luck. But the crow is a classic. Brandon Lee's performance is iconic, and he should be with us today. Has lived up to that original. Yeah, I know. Which I think is how the denial of fan service can be poignant.

Turns out it can rain all the time. But respectfully, your point reminds me of D&D's justification of season eight of Game of Thrones. I love you, though. Who's Dungeons and Dragon? David Wise and David. The people who made it.

Those are the Shonar's? Oh, I think... What was their justification? Yeah, I don't know. I don't watch Game of Thrones. We want to go make other stuff now? I watch season one and then season eight of Game of Thrones. So I'm like, I...

That's the way to watch this movie. I just don't like long form when it doesn't hook me. But I respect you, trying to respect my opinion. I mean, I think we just disagree. I think that... fan service is dangerous. I think that fans running anything is going to get things to be very neutral because you can't make big swings if fans run things, which is why this whole community concept is dangerous. I think that you should have fans make the thing, so I think Todd Phillips was not the one to make a Joker movie.

No, no, he's not the one to make the Joker movie. He certainly made a Joker movie. But, like, I think that's the difference is being by committee versus fan service. Fan service turns into fan entitlement really quickly. So I think you can do things like No Way Home, which is amazing to serve the fans, but I'm glad that it wasn't 100 people telling them what to make, because we got to have the Uncle Ben Spider-Man thing and still feel like, oh my God, all three Spider-Man on screen, but it was still a good movie, and it was still Spider-Man, but I think Joker was never going to be Joker because you can't make an idol-ship movie out of Joker. Like, you can't have your protagonist be a murderer and not expect people to, like, how do you tell that story and make it honest? so I don't know and especially like

it was never going to be a Batman movie so I would love one day to get a Joker movie that feels like the Joker but I never thought this was maybe that's why I like it yeah I want a Joker movie that's not the Joker

you got two I got two I believe you can he's continuing I believe you can show a version that respects what the Joker is while ensuring he is punished and isn't rewarded by the end of the movie

I concur like in the first movie he goes to Arkham Asylum, he's in prison in Arkham Asylum. So at the end of the day, he still, even though he becomes a Joker, he is in prison. I feel like he could have still been killed off even if he was like the Joker by the end. I don't think they'd do that. I think that's why they didn't. Like, I don't know.

I will say, I like the deviation of the heart. Like, I know a lot of people were disappointed by one thing I want to give the movie credit for a different route is that. I know that Harley Quinn, while they honor some of her backstory with saying she has a psychiatrist background and stuff, they obviously don't do the route where she's a psychiatrist who then, you know, falls in love with the patient. I like the approach that they took with her having her be some, like, obsessive fan. Yeah. And that's a girl. Yeah, and still wanting to propel this side out of Joker.

Actually, I thought that was a clever take. That was a, I thought that was a nice middle ground of a completely different version of Harley. while still feeling like I still feel like I'm watching Harley Quinn I still felt like I was getting hers at the end of the day especially this world of Joker When her hand is revealed especially

I mean she already feels kind of obviously a bit unhinged when we meet her but especially finding the whole picture only made her seem more anarchic and wild and sort of curious to me so you had a super I feel like

oh thanks Christian Oh, that is a super chat. We missed them. Sorry, I value your guys' opinions when I disagree with them. Love you. Hashtag. Coors, boys.

And hashtag fuck the crow. Yeah, that's my new brand. I think that's... I think, honestly, the dichotomy between these two messages, I think you can not see eye at eye with someone's opinion, but still respect it.

I know you're trying to respect my opinion as per your phraseology, but I honestly think it's such a beautiful fine line between fan service, fan entitlement, creators trying to make, that I just see everything piece by piece. I try not to go into the MCU films thinking

like, how does this connect? How is this like the last one? I just want to see two hours of entertainment and see what that brings out in me. So with a Joker movie, I'm just experiencing like that two hours. So I don't know. Maybe I just see movies differently. I don't need every adaptation to be beholden to its original thing.

And I think the joke of the betrayal is funny. Well, and we've done so many jokers. And we'll continue to do ways, more jokers. I'm not worried about not getting an authentic one. I just don't think he should be the hero of the story because you should be a, like, you need to be afraid of the Joker. Even Heath Ledger's Joker

who is hilarious and captivating and fascinating is terrifying. You wouldn't want to be an elevator with that guy. You shouldn't identify with him. I mean, you can still make him the antagonist. You can identify with the tragedy, I think. I think the closest we've gotten to that is American Psycho,

but so many people have tried to make that sense and have failed. I think Juan and Peres, answer your question, I really think it's the conflict of the choice when Arthur ultimately, like as an Arthur Flex story, it works when he denounces the Joker in front of the jury. I think that right there is like, that was, I think like for the Joker to be the Joker, he wouldn't turn around on that. I think he would have descended more and really committed and then turned his back on Gary to, to a, to a, to a. a harsher extent. That's when you're like, oh, he's really the fucking Joker now.

That was the, that was the moment in the bathroom for this movie? I think that's when the split. I think that's when it's like, okay, that's when it's like, this is so not Joker now.

Yeah, I understand. That's when it's 100% not Joker to me is when he makes that choice of like, I'm not the Joker. And it's just an Arthur Black. I'm like,

I don't know. Pardon me as I am there. I get it. It's an Arthur Flex story. Yeah, I get it. But as a Joker movie, I'm like,

eh, it's not really Joker anymore. well yeah to me it creates a divide where oh i see now it's it's about the concept of the joker as a persona rather than this guy who is the joker yeah but the movie's presenting itself as that the whole time yeah it at that point just like shifts over into like oh that's what this is really about and i can see that losing you uh just totally yeah i think i i wonder if i haven't heard anyone really reflect that here in the comments but that's just like for me me of trying to pinpoint a moment

of like, what was it that really just kind of, yeah, I'd love to see that in the chat. We'll put the nail in the coffin for me. We're going to get a few, like, it's a musicals, but like, what was the moment for you? Because again, this is one of those movies where, like, if you don't like this movie, I'm not going to assume we don't get along. There are some movies like that where, like, if there's a movie I love.

Yeah, like, if you like the crow, I might fight you. Which is a weird opinion. I might be like, I'll do the little, and I'll punch you in the mouth. I'll be like the crow. Now it does cry all the time. I mean, you've got to watch some horror movies. Henry, Portrait of a serial killer. Give that a shot.

At no point did I identify or want that to be the leader. You don't need to identify with him, but you can see, you know. I mean, yeah, he's bad. I didn't really like that movie. I mean, there's nothing about Henry that is in any way. Redeemable or that you want to get on board with. That's a BAS Lerman movie, the-Australia. Not a bad.

Hugh Jackman. Not Bass Lerner. I was like, I was like, what? Just the fucking, no, the large watch here. Oh, what a different. director. I want to see them collab. I want to see the evil Elvis story from Bazler.

The house of Jackville. Yeah, that one. There you go. I've never seen that. Oh, I love Matt Dillon, though. It's a perspective of a serial killer. Oh. Domer. I like Domer. Jeremy Renner. I like that film. No, I mean, the show. Oh, I've not seen that.

The Dahmer movie with Jeremy Renner's great. And that's actually a good example of, like, walking that line. It is possible. And I would try it. friend Dahmer? The comic book one? No, no, my friend Dahmer's, uh, no, Dommer's, uh,

Renner moves in the early 90s. It was like his, he got three breakout of the year awards. Like, he literally got a breakout award for SWAT, for Dahmer, and again, for Hurt Locker. And I was like, the man has broken out. Renner is here. He's been here.

Uh, is that gasoline I smell? I agree with Starloids. Armani Martinez. Joker is the origin of Gotham being a madhouse. I got to say, I feel, one thing that I, when I look back, the first joker

it's the same way how I feel about Batman begins is like oh Gotham feels like a defined personality in city even if whatever version of Gotham you want Gotham to be it actually feels like there's a defined personality

to Gotham and this movie doesn't have that I agree like it just feels like New York City to me they even said New York a couple times yeah it must have totally floated I was like, is Gotham in the state of New York? Like, and then I was like

maybe it's a taxi driver thing. He's like, I'm making a Scorsese movie. Oh, wow. I think it's partly because you just don't spend anywhere near as much time in the actually at street level. And I think if the movie was really about the concept and the perception then I think that we

should have done that. I think it would make that stronger and more clear as if we were really out of the streets for a lot. We needed to see Joker liking Harley, so we needed a lot of musical numbers. Oh yeah, that's the only way to...

I wouldn't have understood otherwise, Greg. I wouldn't have understood. I have, uh, Shri, I agree. I have many thoughts in the Dahmer show and none are good.

Hate what they did the victims families. That's why I don't usually watch serial killer stuff based on real life because it is, uh, glorifying. That's what this movie's about.

It's glorifying horrible things. So I don't want to give, um, clicks or eyeballs or whatever. I don't want, they make so much of it. And that's... That's thing about the TV movie about his life. That's, I think that's the Joker one.

Yeah. I interpreted that. Oh my God. That's actually that. I like that. I always interpret it. Every time they said the TV movie, I was like, that's the Joker movie we saw. Like, I thought that was a fun medicine. Because that's Joker 1. Was it that cartoon at the beginning? To me, the whole movie was Joker 2019.

Oh, the whole movie was Joker 2019. So they were able to like AI Arthur Fleck into it. No, like it was the meta-commentary and they made a movie about. Did Arthur Fleck killed the person interrogating him at the end of Joker 1? Oh, I've heard this. I don't know what it's done. I was watching the movie. I'm like, are they not going to bring this up?

And what happened there? The end of the first Joker is forgotten in the second movie. He's like rallying all of Gotham. They're like, we didn't. Like, they didn't even acknowledge that. We got that under control off screen. Very quickly. It didn't actually affect it.

The doctor had a bloody nose and Arthur just stepped in it. I feel like if you watch Joker 1 and then immediately put that on. It's like, what happened there? I don't think it flows into Joker 2. especially the ending because like hundreds of people would have died like he'd be responsible for so many deaths Arthur died in the fridge and now all the end of Joker plus all of Joker 2 is just his dying hallucination like the ending like Walter White yeah because yeah the ending of that one it really felt like oh he's Joker in the madhouse of Arkham now like he's literally kills the doctor he's earning away from the guard is leaving bloody footprints yeah and this one is just like I'm Arthur Flick in prison yeah that ending would have been like the musical numbers that we thought like that Big lavish, and then no.

You're not wrong. 6.5 out of 10, guys. I'm just being real. Jokers, the origin of Gothen being a madhouse. We talked about that, Sir Fetachini. Fettuccini. First movie was basically Arthur's transformation. Thank you, Sir Fetichini,

embracing his Joker's side. And the second movie is psych. Just kidding. The whole character arc was pointless. Much love from Boston. It does start over. If they made the debate stronger, yeah. I think they can.

could have alleviated this the very real feeling that that is the case yeah yeah if they had really made the grappling between the shadow self and the self like forefronted and really personified that more i like the the intro i like the cartoon i thought that was cool i like i thought it's a smart way to tell the story because the whole movie is that story i thought it was a good recap of the of the first movie and um i like it like to me that's how the musical number should have played out where it's like, oh, this is pleasant to, this is getting deranged. Yeah. Yeah, you should see, like, it should be, like, an ironic contrast of, like, you enter

musical land, and it is sort of, like, lush and beautiful and saturated. Like, I love the white suit scene. That was what I thought we'd get the whole time. Yeah. And then instead, sometimes it was like, man, I'm in a courtroom. Like, it's weird. And for a movie, like, that comes as a sequel to a movie that overtly has, like, an in-character's mind fantasy played out on screen, which, granted, doesn't

get like fantastic coal, I feel like that would be a perfect way to take that ball and carry it that much further. Go into the subjective POV of the derain. Yeah. Rather than just watching from the outside, which is interesting, but not for the only choice you make. Yeah, I think the, I think the, if you're not going to really do anything with exploring the psyche of Arthur Fleck via through the musical numbers, then I feel like they should have kept the musical numbers for the most part the way how it was when they were trying to break out of Arkham. after the fire on the piano because that's at least that's how a lot of musicals are

they're at least still within the plot of the movie not just let's go inside the mind of someone singing the song well yeah the function is either here's a new revelation that's moving the plot forward or here is a treatise on some kind of revelation that the characters have just had yeah and I feel like

they mainly kind of lean into the latter which is fine which I know a lot of people don't like about musicals and I am fine with but again I feel like as the only choice did not work near my favorite in the chat you got to read oh pop up on this screen Tim wins

my life was a comedy but now I realize it's a shitty musical it's a shitty musical oh that's good that is pretty funny that is very that is the comment of the street right there that's a really funny comment king comment right there

all right guys I'm going to disable the super chats never right now not enough people know how much Koi hates the crow that's so much I'm going to save with the Super Chats, but we are going to get through the rest. You can still contribute to Super Stickers if you like.

And then, of course, we want to finish the Stream Labs. We just want to end by 2 o'clock. Our time. Our time. Let me just refresh this really quick. I'm hitting the wrong keyboard. Okay. Oh, I would love to see a Joker, Horror, Michael Myers-ish take, not make him silent.

This is exactly one-to-one, but yeah, I think that would be cool. Do a horror movie, but we're like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, like a comic book crime horror villain thing. It would be neat. All right, let's read this. Last Stream Lab of the Day. Hey, that comes from Jayden Smith. Hey, guys, a pleasure as always.

I left the movie with a lot of thoughts. But when I had time to sit with it, more it grew on me. Same. Curious as to what scene you guys were removed or expand upon. Oh, we kind of said that a lot of different ones. I don't know what I would narrow it down to. Do you have something specific you could narrow it down to? I think the first act definitely suffered from repeating the patterns of the first film.

And I get the idea was that Arkham breaking him was cumulative. So we saw the drugs, nullifying and, you know, Harley telling him, or Lee telling him to stop taking the drug so he could, like, become himself again. And using the split personality idea, but I feel like they didn't have to restart. Like they could have had him teetering between things. So I would have cleaned up the first act by getting rid of, a little less of the weak, Arthur, because the character's already weak.

You'll have to show him weakened further. And then in the second act, I think that they kind of dabbled with the Lee relationship to a point where I wanted to see, how do I describe this? There's more action that could be taken even in dialogue with their relationship. Like, I wanted to see them actually feel connected sooner.

Like, I didn't buy them together for a bit, and I think that could have been a little faster. Like, I know it takes time to form a relationship, but I don't know, the first and second act just kind of dragged. Yeah. Yep. I mean, it's pretty clear. I would absolutely expound on the musical nature and fantasy of all that.

I don't know exactly what I would just take out wholesale. I'd get a lot of the songs in half. Like, I don't think you need them as long. For this execution, yes. You know, I would change the execution and maybe keep them as they are if that were the case. They were bigger. They could be as long. Yeah.

But as they are, I'd go personally, I'd go on. like a minute, minute and a half for like a three minute. You really embraced fantasy and embraced the tradition of musical, filmmaking. Yeah, I don't know exactly what I would remove. This is another one of those movies where I'm like, all the ideas for me are like fine and interesting, but yeah, it's mostly like an execution thing.

Absolutely, hope. If we got a director and some musicals would have drastically. On a scale from Once More with Feeling and Reep with the Judaic Opera, where is this? That's an odd scale there. I mean, I like Repo. better anyway, and once more of the feeling, so

both. On the scale of 10 to 10 for John. Those are just both what are we doing? A 10 to 10 scale? Yeah, exactly. What would you take out, G? Besides 60% of the movie. I mean, I feel like I've kind of talked about it throughout the entire stream.

Things I would take out of it. Thinks I would totally an handsome one. I would not have just I am not skilled like you guys where I could just officially, efficiently summarize it. Plus, I want to make sure we end by two. Oplex Joe, Joker 2 is projected to earn

$20 to $35 million in the weekend box office. Beetlejuice, Beal Juice, open with $110 million. Who would have thought? Yeah. Wow. Go Beetlejuice. I mean, Beal Juice, Beetlejuice had a good word of mouth.

It looked like the original. Did you watch it? Didn't like it. Wow. Well, now I don't like it anymore. Because you told me, Coy. Now when you watch it, you'd be like, this was right. He didn't like it.

I knew not to like it. Yet you love this one. Actually, they're probably about both six and a halfs. I just like, I have more thoughts about this one. Like, they're both fine. Actually, no, that's not true. I would give Beetleger's just like a five and a half this is a second half. And five and a half puts it on dislike.

I just, I dislike Bealje's. I thought there were too many subplots. I thought that they definitely leaned in to nostalgia in boring ways. They didn't give the new character actually a thing to do. I didn't like the boyfriend character. because it was a very obvious twist that undermined the whole situation. I thought that the actual use of Beetlejuice was the right amount of Beetlejuice, but it didn't feel as bombastic.

Like, obviously, Michael Keaton is much older, but they didn't let him be... The beautiful thing about the first Beetlejuice is he has these crazy manic and then these like, really gravely fun. And then, oh, my God, it's big... And, like, it was all one note of that fun Beetlejuice, but it was a one-note beetle juice. And then they also didn't really build the relationship between the mother and daughter in a way that I cared about the relationship. and then they did clever things

with the actual horrible real person's character from the first film, but then you didn't care about why they kept cutting to them because you're like, well, I get that's a bad thing. And then by the time you get to the third act, the villain of the film is only seen in a few of vignettes, and then you land on the villain arc and you're like, okay, and then they dismissed that whole thing. So it wasted a lot of time throughout the film, so it didn't really like

people. Wow, so let's get this straight. You love Joker, too. Love. Best movie, you hate the crow. Haste the crow. Worst movie of all time. and the movie that people really enjoyed this, your Beetlejuice, Beal Juice, you also hate. So you're just, like, and Thor, Ragnarok.

The Bat, Thor, the Dark, whatever, it's the second we call. Third Dark World's amazing, cinema. So, guys, with the scale, it's a, it's a 10 for Joker, obviously. It's a five for Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. It's a one for the crow. No, it's a negative one for the crow. It's a despicable cinema. And then I would say a three for Ragnarok, obviously.

I think the main difference. difference is that Keaton's not improvising as much in BOP. Hey man, he needs to make money. Armani Martinez. Joker 1, Bruce 8. Harvey 18 plus. What? H-Cab is now fixed.

Armani, I do not know what math is math in right now. I don't know what's happening in this math. Yeah, wait a minute. What the gap are we fixing here so that Bruce and Harvey could get together? In Joker 1, Bruce is 8? And in Harvey 18? I don't. I don't know. I don't know what

means. I don't know. Jason Acker's saying, he's got two comments here. He's saying, I'm not saying men are a certain way, but it's not promoted that men explore all the facets of masculinity. Sure. Sure. I agree with that. Sure. Yeah.

By the way, I love you guys. I'm discussing here. I don't mean to offend. Oh, I didn't feel offended. We're discussing film. I feel like you need to clarify again with a $50 one. Yes. Let us know. How much you don't hate us monetarily what in the Territz Howard is that

nerds engage things I hate fun it is so funny how people don't know what to do with me not liking things because they think I only like things that is such a funny comment for me I'm working for DC and Marvel and I hate fun well I think the construct of femininity and

masculinity is a really fascinating subject especially in like marketing material I think it's really fascinating on the internet because the word masculinity almost has toxic in parentheses in front of it in silent font and like I love masculine stuff but most of my audience

you're very masculine guy I like I really like violence and the gym and I really enjoy what things people are avoiding as conversation stuff like I it's really hard to be someone that is empathetic towards others but also

like guy stuff because as soon as you like guy stuff you're like oh bro like I am a bro but I don't think that that word means it's not a four-letter word like people interpret it. So I think masculinity is, it's got the worst PR ever. Sure. Like the masculinity concept. Like, I think it's important to have masculine attributes.

But I think that they're not all bad. I think a protective nature, an instinctive nature to, you know, take care of others is really important. But it's a different kind of taking care of than maternal energy. Yeah. I think you need a little bit of both. I think it's a spectrum and people have masculine and feminine traits and we should embrace that. Wait, what did Zachary say that's coming up so much in this chat right now? What did you do, Zachary?

Zachary, what happened? Someone wants to sniff me. What's the super chat that you have? That's a lot going on. I don't know which one of us is. That's like, has people going crazy. I'll find it until the end. Hey, Greg.

Greg. Hey, Greg. He's the guy I made our Joker shows. Remember my Joker shoes? Oh, yeah. Those are sick. Started tattooing. Oh, he started his tattooing.

That's awesome. got in a tattoo. Congratulations, man. This is dope. I've got that Rupert Sanders what I'm working on. It's going to share it right now. Rupert Chloe. And then the screw Brandon Lee's crew. Yeah, a picture of Brandon Lee in a circle with a slash through it. And then lots of rain underneath because it can rain all the time. It can.

This sleeve is crazy. Sorry. We interrupted a beautiful moment. Oh, man. I mean, he wants to give John ink someday and I hope John. I hope that you're able to get a tattoo one day. I would love that. I could see John being in there. You could see John being a tatted boy. Overly decisive. People are usually surprised that I don't have any... You strike as a tattoo, fellow.

I'm not surprised at all. I feel like you take forever to make a decision. Well, it's for life, you know, a tattoo. Come on. I feel like a tattoo is pretty permanent. I want to go home. Why am I accompanying you your tattoo? Why am I accompanying you to an activity that is inherently hours long?

And also a permanent decision. Why are you taking so long to do things that affect the rest of your life? Yeah. Can we wrap this up? I know you got three more hours in the chair. What's the one about the crow? Are we almost there? That's all right.

I'm the kiddo. But no, man, I love those shoes. What sucks is everyone going to have left after an hour and not seen the crow redemption arc? No, we'll get there. There's no Crow redemption. No, there's not. Tramp's stamp now haunted autumn.

Danny, I hope your business is going great with the ink, man. I mean, those shoes are bad, freaking ass. Shea Markell. Coy, I'm 100% behind your. I'm glad Art got made take. I don't care. If I don't like Joker, too, I'm glad. its swings were taken.

I want better versions of this. And I agree with all of those sentences. I would love a better version of this, and I'm so happy it also exists. Like, I hope, yeah. I wish they would take the inspiration of, we'll just do this but better next time. Because, of course, that's easy to do.

But let's bring in some fans to find out what it is. And the fact this is making no money, I'm just, I don't know how we get to make things that are as good as Last Jedi. You heard me. And also make things that are going to keep us making fandom happy because you cannot just

bigger, bigger, bigger, and same story, same story. It is so... Endless entropy, Coy. Oh, it's killing me. Shea Markell also says, more gamma. More gamma. We'll increase the gamma and the green balance next time. Red Hulk, O.G. Grey Hulk, the pants of Green Hulk at the ready.

And hey, we're already married, Willie, Billy, Bill. I can't wait for Captain America. Zachary Skolls. Here it is. The fact that Koi hates the crow is wild. The soundtracks is one of the greatest soundtracks ever. Wrong. The music compliments the atmosphere,

mood nicely. Wrong. Well, if you were talking about the 2024 version, he would totally agree. Totally, yeah. Or any of the sequels to the original film. Now that it's almost 2 o'clock, the jig is up, guys, the crow is one of my favorite movies of all time. I love The Crow so much. Like, The Crow is actively

a film that got me into film commentary. The Crow means so... I watch The Crow every October 3rd. Don't chill just because I said I liked it. I have opinions that are different than Johns, but not this one. Every October 30th, every Devil's Night, I watch The Crow. It is one of the most important films to me. It is, I literally was listening to Soundtrack yesterday.

I adore that film. And that's why I'd never seen a sequel, I tried to watch the new one. And I think part of my being tolerant of the new one is I was like, they tried. But, yeah, I love, love the crew. We have a buy fan of Greg in the check. Oh, hey. Middle store. Live your best life.

Hey, it's cool to hear. I wish I was by man Like it seems so great By man Well it's like getting another Twixtre I'm here to sleep with the both Yeah like that's amazing Yes I am

If you could be attracted to every type of person I am a representative of this taste If I like I feel so like short Like I feel like I only have half the people to be attracted to Because I keep wanting to think Dick is great But I can't Like I just I'm like I want more But I just love one

There are many great richards Big fan of Greg Alba That also I know I know I know metal I know it's fine. No, Zachary. You define the chat. Jonathan Wittup.

No, no, Zachary, thank you. We saw that like 40 minutes ago. I'd have been so happy about it. You gave us the running joke of the show. Thank you. Hi, I'm back. To me, this was the first movie on repeat, but with the new sense of identity,

and I like that. What's weird is I don't usually have hot takes. But hey, my grandma loved it. That's a hot take. You and your grandma, Folia, too. Sharing that madness together. I think that is absolutely. a, I mean, I get it.

That's, in our non-suppler, I was like, yeah, that's what this movie seems to be about. It's a reflection. The shadow version. Todd Phillips was like, wow, what did I make? Hey, what did I do? There's not much violence in streets now because it was interesting. It's like, Todd Phillips really thinks his movie had this, like, long gestating effect through society, and now I need to course correct everything.

Seeing interviews with him, he has often come back to the idea of, like, we were making, we were trying to make a movie about kindness and empathy and what happens when there isn't any of that. And I get the aggravation of like, wow, people are not taking that from this movie. Yeah. I think one of my interesting takes in the film is that I left

the first one being so afraid of that becoming more normalized. Like some people talked about. Like I don't think the world went to crap. I don't think everyone idolizes the Joker. But I had a fear of that violence being celebrated and that didn't happen to scale. But then five years later watching this movie, I didn't feel like Gotham

was as terrifying, and I'm like, is the world just that much worse? Like, is, in the last five years, things have gotten so much worse than they were five years ago. I don't think it's the worst time humanity's ever had. I know some people get really hyperbolic and, like, this is the worst time humans have ever lived. I'm like, World War II, World War I, before we had, like, you know, the Crusades. Yeah, before we had medicine. But I do think the last five years have really tested us.

And it was interesting walking out of this movie going, like, oh, I just kind of feel like that's not as scary because it's just, we hate each other a lot more. this is the world yeah like we're so much angrier anger man go suck a nut branded lees macadamia zachary skulls back at it let's go regards to my first super chat i suppose i misunderstood no you didn't no you got it right my bad i came out a weird time i guess no no it was weird until you got there it's been weird it's been it's been amazing um no Really. We're not making fun of you. We really are. We thought it was perfect for us.

About Jukerti, though, I saw last night. I love the beginning and end, and musical aspect got old fast. It's weird. I would say that about the first movie. I love the beginning and the end. And the middle got old fat. Yeah. And I would actually say there's probably the same thing I might say about this one

was at the beginning and the end are probably the strongest parts of this movie. I agree. I guess he's not good at act two's as what is. Or part two. I mean, Hangover 2 is not great either. Yeah. Well, thank you, Zachary. Thank you, Zach.

Alexander Rivera, thank you. The musicals are a great job making the original score bad. I can feel it in the theater field means after the Joker score after a musical because it brought us back to the drag. Oh, man, I saw people leave a screening of musical number. Yeah, like towards the end. I forget what it was like maybe like 20 more minutes left or maybe 23 minutes, but some musical never care of this house.

I was just like put their no bat down and like I left the thing to go peace peace movie they're just

reading about the ending now there was someone behind John and I who would go yeah we had like a

yon sigh guy oh that's so funny but just so frustrated it was Delonzo it was thanks metal

got out of Lonsonzo Oh, Joe Curia's Nightwing would be perfect, actually. Oh, that's a great picture. Or Dylan O'Brien, I see. That's a working in squats, Nightwing's butts iconic. Oh, yeah, definitely. Get them cheeks. Yeah, you get some cheeks going.

Will Billy, Bill? A kid, but I love you guys, and the Scream Queen. The Scream Queen. Oh, well, Billie and Tara. You know, Heather Lanking Camp, Jennifer, they're also known as the Sheejects. Julie Curtis, the lady from the Texas chainsaw. I follow every member of the rejects on Instagram.

I know who they are. I know who my co-workers are. I pay attention to people that I pass by in the hallways of the studio. I see them. I high five. I walk past. You're one of the scream queens, are you? Yeah.

Can I get your autograph? Can we take a photo? Charles Smith. Not every adaptation needs to be authentic, but this is the first Joker solo film. Surely they should stay faithful to the first fucking one. Come on. What a good use of the effort.

You can't really fault people for being, like, annoyed. I get it. Like, maybe some people actually didn't return for Joker 2, because maybe a lot of people actually didn't like... The first one was... I didn't feel like this wasn't faithful to the first movie. Like, I get why you would be off-put by the whole, like, you know, jokes on him.

He accepts being Arthur, and he gets changed. But I don't... I don't know. I never felt spiritually like, well, this is a totally different... world movie, et cetera, now. I agree, and I think it strengthened. I don't think the first film is better for it, but I definitely strengthened my take on this joke.

But that's my point. It's like maybe not as many people like the first one. That takes like as that much that they didn't return for it. That's fair. Oftentimes, you know, sometimes I get like terrible reviews and stuff, but they'll still return for it. Yeah. Because it's the sequel. It is crazy how much it's bombing. And one

thing I'm definitely aware of is the Marvel's versus Captain Marvel. There was all of the anger at people not showing up for that because it was MCU, I'm really curious if they'll be any commentary and like, where are the white men seeing the white man movie? And I'm just like, I'm curious

what the demo is that is enjoying it? Like, what's the audience that isn't giving it a deed cinema score? I mean, it doesn't really seem like a fun movie to want to see you like sequel to? Yeah, neither of them are fun times. It's so like, it's so aggressively

like sad. It's so dreary and bleak and yeah, Like, I don't know. I don't rewatch the first one. I certainly won't watch this one a lot. Like, it's not like a good time. Yeah, because Todd Phillips doesn't understand that it needs to be. But honestly, there's a little bit more humor in this one than the first one.

Yeah, there was a really great joke I loved with the what. That was like literally guffaw funny. Like when he did the what? I liked when he writes to his lawyer, like, can we get Harley a better scene? Oh, that looks so good. He's like drawing the whole time. That was such a good joke. That was funny, yeah.

Also, I want to give some love to Zachary, too. Zachary, I was getting so frustrated with being misunderstood what I was trying to say that I was feeling like I was communicating poorly. And then you made the miscommunication so much funnier because I was talking about both crows. And so not only did you save the stream, but you saved my sanity for miscommunication because I have to talk for a living. So when I'm misinterpreted, and some people doing it at a bad faith. You were not doing it out of bad faith. So thank you so much. You made my day better.

I appreciate you. Alchemist three, two, one. Moment of silence. For the last one, here's what I'm going to end it with because I did not forget what we should be talking about. John,

we didn't talk about Dynamic Duo once. I was so excited about it. Oh, man, is a stream about a movie. There's others news. Hold on. Hold on. Watched a spoiler talk about a movie.

I am never going to watch Equals Entertainment. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who already, oh, thanks for the final super stickers. Joel, friendly, is that Metal Seth, you've been going way out of your way to clarify that. We know, thank you. It's okay. I knew the second I saw the comment,

you meant big fans. I am so sorry to have coy crowed you. You got coi-crowed so hard. Metal stop is the straightest member of the chat and I dare any of you to challenge that. I think we are in a very interesting time with with movies and shows and I find it that we're not actually seeing it happen

with Joker, you know, like take like Rings of Power or Marvels, you know, when it gets like all this hate from a certain camp or certain YouTubers, people just immediately gravitates towards, I'm not going to watch this, hate this, and then those YouTubers in that camp get all this blame and criticism

for being the ones who hated before they saw it because they heard things about it. Or they did see it and they spread bad word of mouth and weirdly that's not happening with this film you know like that's why that's in the demo that I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it's happening though with the movie

but we're not hearing that conversation around it like oh people have made up their minds and are hating this movie there are like six YouTube pages that are causing the studios to actively make fan groups like there are such a small number of very loud individuals that are changing

cinema for the worst well they're really just it's the way how like a Donald Trump is at the end of the day a voice for a group of people. Right. And these it's not just that there's six individuals, there's six individuals who represent a very passionate voice. Yeah. No, I agree.

But I mean, so is Kamala. Like there's there, it's figureheads. No, there's a complete opposite camp too. Yeah, yeah. But what I'm saying is I don't think there are six voices representing the, like there's like hundreds of smaller ones. That's all I mean. Like it's more spread out versus like figurehead figures. Yeah.

Well, and I have seen the usual suspects in the Winge brigade posting about this and being like, it's trash, but not to the same level and degree that they're not saying, like, Joaquin Phoenix should die. Like, a lot of the time it gets personal. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they're not like Senate Lady Gaga, Jeff. Yeah, like usually people go back and they find photos of them like mid sneeze in an interview and then put like tears under their face and go like, oh, failure. Like no one's doing that to Joaquin with like walk the line songs. Like no one is making it personal. just love when people do that.

Not as many. Or even crucifying, as much as crap as even I've given Todd Phillips from crap or like going to have crap during the stream, I feel like he's getting nowhere. Like the movie's getting crucified, but like the individuals behind it aren't. Right. That's usually,

that's what happens with a lot of these movies. And like Todd Phillips himself is not getting crucified. You're saying what I was trying to say. Johnson was like crucified. It's not like Star Wars, that's Jedi's bad. Like, people are going, Joker 2 is awful, terrible. It's not like people are targeting Joaquin Phoenix and trying to run him out of the public.

Like, I don't think that thing Kennedy can go in public. Like, I don't know what she looks like, but, like, it doesn't feel like it's safe for her. Oh, yeah, but I'm weirdly seeing about, like, people taking that thing of James Gunn saying that. Day Knapper disagrees. Like, James Gunn had a bit of his like, yeah, they were already well into production. When we joined WB, we gave, like, a couple of notes. but it's really, it was mainly done. Like that quote that James Gunn had

where he responded to someone where he's basically like, I might have said like a thing or two but I didn't really have a say. Because so many people are like, D.C., it's James Gunn, so it's current, so fire him. People are still like, James Gunn, look at everything he touches his hell. Meanwhile, his movie's out next year. Yeah.

But also people aren't giving James Gun credit for the penguin, which is out at the same time. Yeah, no. And they were out here. Todd Phillips and Company were out here in the weeks leading up two Joker, too, being like, it's pretty much WB, we did this without any James Gunning, D.C., anything, you know?

You basically just said what I was trying to say more clearly, like, I'm wondering what demo is vitrolic versus the ones that are like, that's a movie. Yeah. But anyway, that's the end of the stream, guys. We did talk about the opening scene. I forgot we did, right? Yeah, yeah, the cartoon, how it's kind of the whole film. It describes

the plot. That's true. That's true. It reflects the past. It looks to the future. Oh, yeah, it's absolutely true. And it's just nice to get an animated, release the phillow's cut haunted autumn says yeah i know i bet there's a six-hour cut of this movie somewhere no there's so much deleted the shot they keep leading with with him on the stairs kicking the literally like the ending shot of all the trailers the box poster is not in the film yeah yep yeah no it's true oh thank you scy the magna magnumones eight that's a really kind thing for you to say

thank you christian unproncible um i didn't make a sketch with ashley Yeah, I don't know you're talking about it. Time to make one. Got a podcast going up with my brother tomorrow, guys. Real Reject's Diaries, you're the first ones to hear about it. Braddieu. Right here at the end. That's my random announcement that I didn't plan on doing.

He's like, there we go. Here's news. Rejects Diaries. A little podcast going up tomorrow. Keep a lookout for it. The guy got cut. I haven't heard her album. Is that one good?

I haven't heard any of it. I haven't heard any of it. I want to see it. Now, I wanted to listen to it after the movie. So I'll put it on over the weekend. We'll do another live stream all about it. We're saying bye right now. So there's just some quick shoutouts in here.

Wana Perez. Thank you so much for sticking around for our Pankor and roulette. I agree. They Christian unpronounceable, always in our stream. Thank you so much. Scott Magnanimous, Nini. Cajun, it was good to have the trio. We like this.

Hopefully, Venom 3 is worth talking about. I think I'm so excited. Have you guys seen the Buster Rhymes and UFC ads for Venom 3? I'm so happy. That's so niche, my jokes. Like, so Tom Hardy busts into UFC headquarters trying to get money and then he, like, put Sugarboy and, uh, what's his name?

Oh, you don't know. Sean O'Malley. Okay. I will react to it. It's good. And then Buster Rumsman's good, too. Stephanie Horter, thanks again for being in here. Jason Lewis.

That'll stay up. We know you're straight. Spidey says, 872. Zachary Skoll is the man of the hour. Tim Wing, K. Yeah. Um, thank you guys so much for being in our,

in our stream with us today. Um, I'm glad that we had a chance to demonstrate having difference of opinions and not having to murder each other. I appreciate that. Remember to go watch the crowd. It was really hard for me because I didn't know which one of you to agree with. John has no opinions. He's a mirror or a reflection.

John is weirdly developing this reputation here of a man with no backbone. Which is not true. Like I actually ask John for his opinions because he has them. I'm just willing to entertain the conversation. No, no, black or white. There is no nuance. Rings of power, whatever opinion John has that's not.

negative, I get blamed for John's opinion. Art is in the shared discourse and part of the fun is that your feelings and opinions, every time we record an out of the theater review, a couple days later I'm like, did I really articulate my thoughts right? Is that how I still feel?

Like, you know, it evolves. Embrace the living organism of our interactions with art. That's the point of art and I'm glad we got to share something. We watched the interview with the vampire and like, Roxy certainly had some aversions to that movie and I feel like we had a very thoughtful discussion

wherein I laid out some things I really liked about the movie while also being able to be like I totally see why you feel that way and if I don't see why someone would feel that way I'll say so. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you guys say you guys tell me to. If you tell me it's okay. He has to get approval.