The Reel Rejects - Snow White Backlash GROWS! Marvel’s BIG Punisher Shift, Saw Franchise Canceled & Looney Tunes Axed

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Hollywood's Leadership Is Failing! First, we dive into the shocking cancellation of the Saw franchise, breaking down what led to the decision and what this means for horror fans. Then, we discuss new Mortal Kombat 2 set photos, giving us our first official look at Karl Urban as Johnny Cage! Over at Warner Bros., the bad decisions keep coming—Looney Tunes content is being removed from MAX, sparking major outrage, while the long-shelved Coyote vs. Acme is finally saved. This fuels even more backlash against David Zaslav’s leadership, which has been widely criticized for prioritizing tax write-offs over storytelling. Meanwhile, theaters are struggling as both Mickey 17 and Novocaine underperform at the box office, raising questions about whether audiences are losing interest in non-franchise films. The Snow White (2025) remake remains a hot topic, with the latest controversy surrounding Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot continuing to make waves online. Can this film recover from its disastrous PR? Next, we dive into the latest Spider-Man 4 rumors, with speculation about a new female villain possibly being Black Cat or Silver Sable. Is Sadie Sink joining the MCU? The theories are wild! Finally, we talk Jon Bernthal’s return as the Punisher and how he almost didn’t come back for Daredevil: Born Again. Unlike other recent studio decisions, this one was actually good leadership. Intense Suspense by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Follow Us On Socials:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  Tik-Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@reelrejects?lang=en Twitter: https://x.com/reelrejects Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ Music Used In Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Happy Alley by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB:  https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket. To my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Not included.

The Naked Gun. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. There is the cold. And it is the froy of the Montagne Blue. The froy at its summit. Coors Light. T'envee a fraud.

Celebrate in a fashion responsible. You have to have the age legal for consuming We just shot another podcast. A srod chimes. I talked for an hour and 20 minutes. And it was so personal. Don't know when it's going to air. And now we're here to talk about movie news.

Hey. Yeah. Now we're here to go surface level, baby. Surface level. No more personal stuff. Nah, it's going to be very real. Here. And today, filling in, John Hunt.

That's right. What's up, buddy? I have an immense urge to go make sure that I hit record on the roadcaster, even though I know I did. That's how you want to double check tons, usually doing the behind the scenes. It's just John and I in here today. Why don't you go ahead and check? There we good. Oh, look at that. We're rock solid steady. Well, dude. So good. We got a lot to talk about today. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for asking. We got a lot to talk about today. I would like to get right to it. We've already, the thing is we have already warmed up on another lovely podcast. We have warmed up, incinerated ourselves and cooled down. We took a nice, cool dip in the blast furnace, and now we're back. I'm like, oh, yeah, let's film again. So here we are. But I'm excited because I love filming this, and I'm excited that we finally get to be across the desk from one another for this.

It was only a matter of time. There will be another me chiming in off camera, too. One of these days. so there's there was a couple of stories that for sure john and i wanted to talk about that being like mortal combat two those images came out the saw franchise which some of guys might not know this is a franchise very near and dear to the heart of john and gregg and how it looks like it's just over which is surprising and then did what we did last week because loved absolutely love the way this turned out which was we went to the community post and just just

wanted to see a little bit more generalization of what you guys want to talk about so chose like a five i mean some of them are you know similar comments but nailed it down to five stories that i didn't know about till 10 minutes ago i was like oh dang there's a stuff i completely missed that are apparently big deals that are top rated like please talk about this and toxic avenger of course the adventure yeah but yeah man there's so much in there that i i was like i haven't been so out of the loop on what warder brothers is doing and like holy shit that's awful and then of course snow white and how that response has been going down terrifically i've got thoughts on that for sure and a lot of this is just going to be me seeming like i got thoughts and i'm going to

try my best so what can i do in a moment like that so many thoughts baby explore dialogue come from the heart and just see what ultimately rises what ultimately comes out right um so yeah with that in mind uh you guys can go hop around if you like like or just listen from beginning to end. There are video chapters down below. I think we'll just do this pure John and Greg style, not worry about retention. Let's just go with what we want to start with. We have not talked about the soft franchise. Have you looked up what's going on with this? I heard like just little rumblings about it that apparently the producers are at odds with each other. Yeah. And it's just led to like, I don't know, the franchise is just shut down now.

Which is shocking because that last one was so well received. It was like the closest saws ever come to prestige. It got great review. Yeah. I never thought I would ever say those words. Yeah. The like, what was the 10th movie? 10th movie?

Saw 10. Got the 10th movie in our horror franchise got incredible. reviews you're usually lucky if part six is a surprise banger which is true of saw this one yeah but also part 10 being like maybe the best since part one is like so cosmically met like lovely it's good for them it's insane and it did well it did so to hear that it's dead i'm like what this it didn't make any sense to me out and you know there are people saying that it has to do with greed ego, things like that. I am genuinely upset by this because they had this opportunity to do something new.

And of course, we're like, well, you know, Tobin Bill is kind of old now. I'm like, yeah, we know he's old. Yeah, that's why you've got to make as many. That's what you're going to do it now. So you can't. That's why it's like Harrison Ford, keep acting. You know, until the day you die, just keep acting. Hey, like the people who don't retire, he intend to live longer.

So what was your response when you when you first heard this news man? Because I don't think this makes any sense. How do you guys in the comments feel about it? No one asked about our community post, which is kind of sad. But I want to know. How do you feel? It was interesting to discover because at first what I found it as was like, oh, Saw 11 might be canceled. And then that leads you. It's the logical conclusion. But then you dig deeper and you see the words put out there of like and with that said, the franchise. ties along with it. But yeah, looking at, I think, I think it was bloody disgusting or whatever the original article was. You know, it is a bit of hearsay, certainly, but that is a movie that was pushed. I forgot that it was supposed to come out,

what, in 2024? And then it got pushed to this year, or it got pushed to a year. It got pushed to, supposed to be now later this year, come to find these conflicts are happening behind the scenes as the article described it.

I believe like two of the main producers couldn't, come to a mutual decision on what approach to take for the next installment. And it's weird to have this news now being such granular fans of the soft franchise because like in hindsight, judging by what we've gotten recently, I can kind of better, again, just just in my own head can and see maybe what we're talking about when we think of what these conflicts could be. But it just generally is a bummer because, too, it brings you back to the idea of like, this

isn't it doesn't sound like this is lion's gate pole in their wade around or something like that it's like you you remember that saw is mostly shepherded by a small group of people and throughout its run you know throughout the different phases they still have had like a handful of people with hand like you know james juan and lee wonnell were at least involved for like the first three and then you had dunstan and melton on the writing side for the next handful and like a bunch of Darren Bousman's in there. And then you have, I think it's Orenberg and Peter Kulis.

I think there were three producers and I think one of them passed. So I hope I'm not naming incorrectly. And I don't know if it's them even, but it seems like they are the two guys who, again, own and shepherd this. And it's weird to remember like, oh, this is a very successful,

like little independent film franchise that's almost kind of family owned plus the big studio distribution. Yeah. I do feel like, I get why the word greed is thrown around here because it's like the thing finally does something in a way that is beyond well. It reaches like this new height. It breeds fresh life into the franchise, which means there can be some serious gains to come from this if continued in a way that is, you know, successful.

Yeah, fitting. The fact that you can't come to some type of symbiosis on this is really, really sad. because it's robbing us, the audience of something, the creatives, the people, not the producers, but I feel like just based off the news, a part of this conversation is like producers, financial producers versus, you know, the creatives, like directors and such, directors and writers. And what they are doing to, what they have now done to the soft franchise is, is kind of a, is a pissy, selfish thing to me.

And somebody's like, it's a weird thing. I'm jumping. I am part of the problem in a way of like, I am jumping. to like so many conclusions in my own head without knowing any of the real details. And who the source is and how true any of this is. But it lines up considering that it's been delayed, we haven't heard anything about it.

And when something does that well, especially in a horror realm, it's like, no, this should have been done by now. Like you would think it would be done by now. And yeah, I mean, there's really not a lot one can say other than this is disappointing. And I hope that if the rights do get sold or something, that they don't immediately just hop on rebooting it because that's been part of the

specialty of Saw is that it's been this one consistent time line soap opera procedural while some stuff might occasionally contradict some past movie or conflict with timeline it's pretty solid overall and it's better than like the X-Men franchise in terms of that continuity it's got a better sense of consistency yeah than a lot of franchises and yeah there's a curveball in there or two and I think that's part of what I'm fascinated by is I think and then he saw experts out there who know better than me please by all means I would

love you in the comments to enlighten us further but I feel like what I had heard at the time was that the John Kramer's story that became saw X10 X is always man I never know which one to go but I feel like they wanted to do that and then Chris Rock popped up with the spiral idea

and they were like oh no no wait we got to do that because this is I could see in a different way I looked at that like, oh, fun, creative opportunity. What an unlikely collab. But I can also see from a business perspective how someone might go, no, no, no, wait, wait. Let's do this potentially marketable for various reasons thing rather than doing the John Kramer focus story. And the problem with a saw 11 after that is I go, what do you want?

Do you want to divert again? Because I can see how that might be the move. Or do you want to keep going with midquals? You know, because that could also be the move. but you can't exactly recreate what is special about Saw X in, like, it seems like a tough one to

make a sequel to, because it's a particularly interesting watermark in that it is like giving a victory lap and the flowers to its main figure and asset and a heavy creative force in the franchise too in Tobin Bell, but also after that you can't just

make Jigsaw X again. You know, like, so it does seem like a conundrum. But if the, There is a way to go out, though. It would be Sawyx. Like, if it was to be a final, like, number 10 is a good number. The fact that it's a great movie, you get, like, a heartfelt story of our, of our main killer, you know? And that's, like, one of the unique things about the franchise is that you've been watching the John Kramer Chronicle.

And, like, the generations of John Kramer's jigsaw killers. Yeah, you know, like, so it's, I think it's, it's, it's thematically fits for an ending. it um numerically fits for it nice and crisp it it does but i think on the heels of when you were told you're going to be getting like two more yeah and something ugly went down but i'm curious i i will say this if they do reboot it because the article says like uh you know what's likely and it only stands to reason like a reboot it'll come back somehow and in any other hands it's more likely to be a reboot uh and granted this doesn't really solve the aid problem But one thing that would get me excited on the heels of having just watched, Jack Reacher,

if you got Hurtzog to do a one-off saw movie as Jigsaw, it's like about the only thing that could get me like further excited if it's not the continuation of this franchise. It's the horror franchise that I, there are other ones that have popped off in our lifetimes. But this is the one I feel like since part two, since discovering it then, I've been here for all of. you know and invested in so i agree man how do you guys feel about it even care do you not care i feel like you should it's torture just thinking about more song yeah absolutely is well if there's something that is getting a sequel then we knew it was coming coyote versus acme yeah no no we will get to that we will get to that um moral combat too because i feel like oh yeah we have the community

post and i'm like no no no the community page has got that taken care of on the news the kind of yeah yeah mortal combat too there's um some actual photos here let's go they have released and of course there's information as well about um uh the johnny cage portrait so the the big day it's like you have chow con who's going to be the villain and he looks like the terminator but but like this with like a skeletal thing have you seen the photo of it i have seen the shell con it's creepy as hell Yeah, with this like metallic skull, helmety, thingy, glowy eyes. It's interesting because it looks like a skeleton, but then the guy playing him is like bigger than Alan Richardson. Like the dude is like a humungo.

And that's cool for Shao Kondah to get to be done right. As long as he's huge, I think. You have Katana as well with their actual katana's the Katana fan. And, you know, another image of Hiroki was Scorpion. Looks like he's in hell in this moment. That's so cool. Let's put that together right now. And, of course, the Johnny, the Cage, played by the one and only, the very talented Carl Urban.

That's right. Which was a bit of a controversial casting. A. O'Mare. Because, yeah, it was a bit of a controversial casting because of the fact that he's older. Yeah, Johnny Cage is a youngan. He's a young man, usually. He's cocky. And I'm looking for, like, the lines that they say, here's what they said about him.

Ed Boone, the game co-creator said, you finally get to see Johnny Cage. He's a washed-up Hollywood guy thrown into this magical, ultra-violent thing. Carl's depiction is different from the games. He's adding his own flair, but it's fresh. It's a good talking point. It isn't true as ridiculously hilarious with some of the biggest laughs in the test screening.

The director adds, he adds complexity. We didn't want Johnny to just be silly or disposal is more than comic relief. And so, yeah, basically he's like the new guy, cocky, X-Star, funny, layered, not just a jokster. He's central to the story. Yes, of course.

he's the underdog in all of us there's mixed reactions to it but I feel like this is great for Carl Urban because we know he can do it from just doing like movies like dread and then of course his role in the boys but this would be so

different because it sounds like a bit more self-deprecating yeah it sounds more self-aware and to be like the new lead fish out of water and get Johnny Cage back I think is great they're actually going to have the tournament this time yeah I heard that because the moral combat movie I mean we reacted to it was like an interesting experience because while it gives you some like visual moments and certain scenes where it's like wow it's really cool that they brought to the big screen certain fatalities and such I mean they don't a have a tournament the fighting was great like it's a mix back right there's some great things in it and there's some like things that just really don't sing it's a strong effort for what it is but there's clear ways it could be more of what people wanted to be exactly exactly in some ways it was like a good pilot yeah for what they could possibly

do to make a great shoot yeah yeah with a slightly crazier aesthetic and then yeah they'll get a franchise going to shit yeah yeah so i i have a lot of faith that this would be good because more than likely going to get more money to make this happen car urban is an actor that i think does excite people because there's not really like here yoki sonata is definitely like a name now um and he's been like around for a very long time but now more than ever since show gun he's more of a name and carl urban is just like he's definitely like a bigger name to like throw into the mix especially someone who's been part of geekdom for a while you just brought up lord of the rings like he's been part of geekdom for a very long time uh i i feel like this could actually

be something really cool yeah um scourge and and and a funny and yeah that's true and another mo he really know the character days damn and another thing is that the um you know what i forgot What were you going to say? Well, I mean, yeah, like, I think it's one of those things where I am sure there's a reason that someone who's played every Mortal Kombat could give us almost like a Jack Reacher, you know, it's like that Tom Cruise portrayal, not bad, you know, and for what it is, it's got the isms, but it's also filtered through this other, you know, aesthetic that is Tom Cruise. And I feel like Carl Urban, by contrast, is the kind of guy who probably would like, I mean, yes, it sounds like they are teasing something that he's made his own abuse. bit, but also, I mean, I feel like he's a guy with a clear wealth of experience that could easily inform a character like this, whether sincere or comedic, and there are takes in the games where he is older and washed up. So, like, I understand how in the booting of your franchise, people

might be like, get a young guy who can do a hundred of these, but also, A, Carl Urban seems pretty spry anyway, and B, I feel like, yeah, he's the right combination of likable for a franchise that is so enduring and we've seen like every time they get a new boost in graphical power johnny cage looks a little different yeah i feel like he's got enough of the type of look and obviously the physicality and the acting chops to where he can be both funny and cool and i feel like you know in a mortal combat scenario you probably are going to have some stuff where he is playing off of yeah his hollywood experiences and being a little you know too cocky for his own ability bringing some of that you know thick-headed comedic relief and as long as again they're being honest in this in that

you know he's going to be some kind of interesting eyeline or character and not just be comic relief I think it's mostly that as long as he holds his own and isn't just a joke I feel like this is great like to me I'm very optimistic and excited about that I mean you want to be able to root for the guy yeah and look as cool as like Lewis tan is in other oh young we've seen him like there's been so many things I've seen him in that I'm like this guy is really cool the character just did not work it unfortunately it didn't work in immortal combat one and it was a disappointment for a lot of people and he was supposed to be the eye line he was supposed to be the thing you root for the heart and whatever you got to give him his own flavor of some

variety you did not sing verse I guess that's my word for the day in the writing they just didn't give him much of a thing they gave him a girlfriend and a kiddo and and and and And we all relate to that. Well, for this, I like the approach, too, of like, well, let's do the opposite. Let's make our new character, our new, what sounds like will be the lead, older. And someone who, like, probably needs to stretch a little bit. Like, you know, so you root for him in a different way versus, like, young Hollywood hot shot Johnny Cage. And now he's going to get humble or learn about his heart or some shit.

Yeah. You know, like, whatever that obvious arc is, let's get this other obvious heart. Yeah. in a way that was probably a little bit more relatable, a little bit more endearing. You can get more hard out of that for sure. Yeah. And then trying to recal, like, he's washed up. His glory days are behind him.

This is a chance for some type of self-redemption, you know? So I think there's opportunity here for actual rich writing that requires a rich character. And doesn't even be like that deep, but it's something that we call Urban can bring, like, his own elevation to. And I feel like it's necessary for the Mortal Kombat franchise to, for it to continue on cool fatalities and fights. are just not going to be enough. You need to have a good lead character. And if you are able to do that with an actual established character,

I feel like then you are really going to be honoring what people truly want in life from this adaptation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel like it's a nice, it's any actor you bring in is going to suit the role, obviously. But I feel like there is something about, yeah, if you're making the movie and you, again, they've expressed a wish to bring some level of,

you know, fun and heart along with the bone crunching. Oh, did they? Oh, that's kind of what the quote you said alluded to, that he at least brings some kind of characterization. And, you know, he's not just a joke, right? I trust you so much today that I'm like, I'm a little, I am so great. But I feel like going this way to me makes some sense because I don't know,

like if you're 22 and you conquer mortal freaking combat, that's only going to make you more insufferable. Especially if you're already like a cocky, you know, a guy in the limelight, you know, so this I could see leading to a lot of potential for, yes, underdog, you know, heartstring pulling, but also, you know, fish out of water, humor, and also it's fun to watch a character who's oblivious, quickly get hipped to a new reality or something like that. And I feel like, yeah, with a little bit more world weariness on the character, there's just like way more you can do with that. And if you all,

tweaking the levels and we aren't going to have a Cole Young here like is he even in the movie who cares someone in that Roxy movie I hope that shouts out to Roxy and Kate Beckett's nail and lose tan yeah I like I would actually I hope they find a way to keep him in the ensemble that is cool but yeah like Johnny Cage is a character everybody wants to see and I feel like everyone will want to attach to him and I feel like if he is just just a young cocky 20-something that can be fun but if i if they want him to be a central character that i'm gonna get like latched onto and who would maybe help lead a couple more installments because face it yeah like here yuki sonata we love but he's scorpion and that's a different

vibe of character you know it was not supposed to be the charismatic leading guy uh and moral combat obviously supposed to be an ensemble but yeah i feel like uh carl urban this just gives me lots of optimism because he seems like he could bring the camp, the sneaky little heart that'll make things actually, you know, relatable and the physicality. It's all, it's all that. Well, the other aspect that Don, I mean, while we're talking about it, is like, Shao Kahn's in it. And he was the villain in Mortal Kombat Annihilation, the sequel to Mortal Kombat 90s movie. Got to do the reaction. Annihilation, I can recall as being the first movie as a kid I watched in the,

the theaters that I walked out of and it was the first movie I believe I ever said I did not like that movie in terms of like a movie theater experience like six or seven yeah six or seven years old watching this movie being like I didn't like that and it's it is a movie that does not get better like it is a terrible film it's a really really awful film and disappointing for Johnny Cage is in it for like two minutes and that's what we want so I'm wondering if they might some of the and Katana is a is she's in first normal combat but there's aspects of this seems like it kind of feels like they're like doing some type of redemption to the sequel that we should have got him with mortal combat annihilation from bringing Shao Khan in

and doing it more comic accurate and then you know having Johnny Cage be like a main character in it instead of just two minutes and they might do some type of for those who've seen annihilation I guess I will try not to spoil it but like they might do a flippoor for what they did with Johnny Cage

and then do that with Cole Young instead in this one as a little meta-commentary and you talked a lot about heart and I think that's the thing that audiences often forget about what they need with their movies even in a gory fest action movie like Moral Combat yeah is heart for anything is kind of important it's a very important piece i don't want to say the first

one had heart i would say the original 90s movie had heart like there's definitely heart in that film even though the action's not what you think about you're not like the heart of the movie well the heart that is being ripped out of a chest yeah like you know eaten and you know run over by a bus and shot with a machine gun it tether's a movie together it that's you need that emotional connectivity because at the end of the day it just feels like another disposal piece of entertainment, but if you want a franchise, you've got to have that heart. You need like a, like a, for lack of

a better touchstone, there's, I feel like a James Gunniness that you want in something like a Mortal Kombat, we're like, yeah, it should be wild and gory and a bit irreverent, but also like any movie that you're going to care about as a franchise overtime has to have like some element of heart to give you the character, yeah.

Michael. Michael. How on, buddy? How you doing? He's just going to leave. Michael is grabbing pretzels for those of you. Come on along at home. Why come say hi? Join us.

Get these chips right on the mic. Oh, you got the good ones too. You got the sour cream and cheddar ones. Those are brought to you by no one who sponsors us. That's our buddy. So why don't you just sit on the couch and just like. I would be so funny. I think it would be funny if you just like walked around here and just sat.

I like it. It's a very chill. We're in the break room. Thank you for letting us shoot at your office today, Michael. Yeah, thank you, Michael. Okay, so that's the Moral Combat 2 News. How do you guys feel? You're excited about it? Huh? Do you like Catan's costume? YouTube question? Do you like the fans? What else is here? Oh, wait. Let's go to the community post ones. Let's do it. I put W.B. Hates Looney Tunes. Oh, that surprised the heck out of me. I feel like when you're here, you should just bring us like one Star Wars.

related piece of knowledge every time it'll be michael's uh galactic uh senate sure uh but yes i would like i would like to read this comment from because this is our top comment on the community post oh goody let's talk about how wb absolutely hates looney tunes isaac isaac late isaac slayton isaacin isac slayton 7207 so here's what i gather um because we're going to lump in Coyote v. Acme and Looney Tunes in one go. Hey. So Coyote versus Acme. It was a live action animated

Looney Tunes film starring John Cena Woolforte, completed three years ago, but shelved by WB for a $30 million tax right off. Other studios try buying it. David?

Zathlaw. David Zaslov Comment hashtag David Zazlov If you made it to that point Zazlov He pulled Jack Warner's desk Out of storage

And uses it on the Warner Brothers What a jerk one I'm so I'm so conflicted because like How could you do that And then also be selling the Looney Tunes It's like It's like Disney being like

We don't need Mickey and the guy anymore we're going to sell those let's try to explain this for people who don't know because I had to look it up myself so I want to make partially saying this to make sure I understand the story so they refused to sell as in March 2025 this independent distributor this is part I did not know ketchup entertainment and I love ketchup mustard they're negotiating to buy the film for 50 million dollars potentially giving it a second chance of release and of course this entire situation feel criticism against WB and prioritizing short-term financial gains

over-preserving its iconic properties. Secondly, the other part of Looney Tune situation. WB is intentionally trying to like get rid of Looney Tunes apparently. Bonkers. They took a bunch of it off of Max. Exactly. They have removed all classic Looney Tune Shorts from Max, effectively

pulling decades of animation history from their own platform. Meanwhile, did you guys know? There was a Looney Tunes movie that came out. The day the earth blew up, a Looney Tunes just came email. It was initially scrapped by WB, but later picked up by a smaller distributor. Catch up entertainment.

So, yeah, like the overall feeling is, I guess, the question of why, you know, like there's such a cultural impact Looney Tunes has. Like, I did not personally grow up on Looney Tunes. I do not really know Looney Tunes. I know Space Jam.

You know, like, that's about the extent of my Looney Tunes. But I would be naive to say, like, of course I'm not aware of, like, what's Looney Tunes? Like, it is, it's part of culture. Beyond just move. It's like Simpsons or something. It's like Scooby-Doo.

Everybody knows what's up, doc. Everybody knows Looney Tunes. Everybody knows Looney Tunes. And they are such an image part as well. And for, it's weird for like, in a time in studios where there's so much about, like, capitalize on nostalgia, they are trying to completely rob themselves, rid themselves of something super significant. Yeah, of a part of their friggin history,

of animation and Warner's history. So the interesting thing is that you have a scenario in which you have such a detailed, longstanding... Yeah, get close to the angle there. A detailed, longstanding... Hello there. Detailed, longstanding treasure trove of IP. Oh.

Unfortunately, because it is such a large collection of original content, the estimated value of, and you have to imagine, most of these shows that are up there, nobody's going through every single day and binging through all of them. I mean, there's a couple folks. Every day. But not enough to where it's justifying the cost of maintaining it.

And the challenge is that when Discovery acquired Warner, number one, that was a very opposite-ended type of acquisition. They didn't actually have the money required to move forward with the acquisition. So they had to borrow a lot of funds and created a massive tax challenge for themselves where part of the initial approach for the first few years

was getting really clever with write-offs. And that's exactly what they did in order to preserve the company. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of an extraordinary story like The Looney Tunes. And Bat Girl. And Bat Girl, yeah.

So they're selling the Masters to make up for acquisition costs. I think this is a massive, the day leadership forgets about, it's like if you want to talk about business customers leadership, right? This is an insult to your audience. This is an insult to your people. Yeah.

What they're doing. Like, Batgirl is one thing I think people could move past because no one saw Backgirl. It was brand new adaptation. There was never a Backgirl live action movie. Looney Tunes is different. You are insulting people at this point.

Well, and it's, yeah, it's like... And I appreciate that, Michael, by the way. Yeah, that was actually, that was very enlightening. Thank you. You're me for today's podcast, but with way greater historical and political acumen. Yeah, it's like D.C. stuff, yeah, Batgirl, for example. It's like we all, if you know movie business stuff,

you know like, oh man, DC Warner Brothers, that's been a thing for a long time. But like, the Looney Tunes are even more. you know ancient back in the fabric of the studio than that you know like the animaniacs are literally the war like yako wacko and dot warner like uh and it's yeah like that to me it's weird if they sold dc tomorrow i'm like i get it it's a very valuable portfolio of i p but like warner brothers selling the luneitunes feels like they're literally like pulling a big brick out of the foundation and going, this is valuable, and God, we need the money, so just, God, or no, just dump it, you know, it feels very desperate.

It doesn't even feel like an illusion to try to make it seem like artists are at all have what was saying that artists are in control whatsoever. Yeah. Michael. David Zastlov was able to turn the Discovery Channel, was able to turn the Discovery Channel, was able to turn the Discovery Channel, into a extraordinary content juggernaut.

He took that mantle, and he used to get left at, because Discovery, they're based in Washington, D.C. They weren't in L.A. or anything like that. He ends up figuring out, you know, like the show, like the Civil War gold, where they, like, search for gold. My theory is that they actually found the

gold, and he used that to put the down payment on Warner Brothers. This is a short-term plan. It feels like it. The plan is to survive an acquisition that should never happen. If I don't have the money to pay up front for something, I shouldn't be able to take a loan out. Get after pay. To acquire it. That's exactly. They use Karna that shit. To freaking purchase. Four payments of however many million billion dollars. So anyway, I don't think they're going to sell off the IP. I think that they're in a waiting

game to try to get to a more balanced place. And once they do, I'm sure they're going to release all these movies to make a whole big fanfare about it but it really is a sign that art is dead it's dead and the only thing that can save it is by becoming a super sexy reject and subscribing to our patreon because we are the last we are storming the past we're buying lute tunes with your help we're going to bring it back I love having you here it's I like being here it's unpredictable what he said it seems I can I you know what in light of what you just said I can see how this report could basically be them weighing the option what would it be worth would we were we to sell the rights to the characters our entire catalog of Looney Tunes things someone will want that it is very valuable it feels like a to consider it would be disrespectful especially at this point when it's like you're only this week hearing like oh man they might be in major trouble after some of these big flops you know with like the joker with a with a joke or two of it all and and some of the other you know expensive non-performers that they've had lately i think it's the job of the of the leadership to elevate what you have

it's the job to highlight not bury it not put it in the shadows i don't care what long what weird short-term game they're playing or like when it comes to the business and all that stuff I'm not going to try to like sound like I know everything of what I'm talking about. I'm like Michael Tesla, you know, but I know it. I think we all know enough. We all have an inkling enough when you can suspect you can tell that there's some nefarious shit going on here. And I don't want to be like the conspiracy theorist guy, but I don't really feel like it is that because it's really apparent when you just kind of look at it. Coyote versus Acme being shelved for right off what happened with this Looney Tunes movie that just

came out, them removing Looney Tunes from Max. I think he is the leader of WB, unfortunately. He is the positional leader. He is not someone that people want to follow though. And when you have a leader like that, your company's going to be in trouble. And I think this is a part of really ruin your company some people might be here being like no one cares about looney tunes anymore uh it doesn't matter if you if you don't care if you're someone i don't really care about loony tunes i don't um but the handling of this like this is how you screw over to create like you want you want to get creators to work with you again you want to get directors you want to get writers to work this speaks to a bigger problem yeah nolan left warner brothers for the max shit that went down the

HBO Mac stuff. The shit they're pulling now, I don't think they would ever get Nolan back with what they're doing now. I don't care how much money you throw. I mean, I could be wrong about that, but trust is so important. And this man seems like he has single-handedly damaged trust. And when you break trust, it's so much easier to lose trust than it is to gain trust. Sure. And especially after you leave people with feeling some semblance of betrayal, yeah it speaks like a bigger picture this is the this is the problem with studios not being run by people who love movies by people who love who got who became producers to help bring movies to life yeah they've they've turned it into corporations now it's like of course it's a corporation

of course it's a business but how this approach is going i think it's ugly this is coming for a person doesn't really give a shit about looney tunes i think it's incredibly ugly what's what's happening yeah i mean i grew up in the looney tunes so to me that's that's stuff that does feel like history and there is a preservational archival thing that I'm like oh this doesn't archiving is important and yes it's not like a big lucrative thing to do but like history is important and and like this stuff has grown and influenced so much over time there ought to be especially at the studio that helped to build all of this that you see before you you know the like Warner Brothers is a huge part of the fabric of so much history and entertainment and the

Looney Tunes are also part of that fabric of the history of animation, entertainment, entertainment in general. And it just, yeah, the way this is all shaken out feels like there's been a clip circulating of Seth Rogen talking about producers and how like there's a common misconception that people just care about money and they don't want to make good movies and they don't give a shit. But that guy is not David Sussle. But it really does authentically feel with everything you hear about this guy and the decisions you see him. and you know whoever executes his decision make it does feel like a dude who's mainly good at doing businessy stuff like i don't i'm not an expert so again if you know better in the comments please enlighten us but his overhaul of discovery uh surprise wasn't from my understanding about making more discovery like content that's like about the world and about biology and science and like you know it became much more of like a reality

TV machine and yeah it boosted the brand which which is you know that's always going to be a conundrum of like what is this thing for what is the spirit of the art or information entertainment that they're making but also I like I get that

you need to have a profitable venture and that's always going to be a conundrum but also that doesn't speak to somebody who really understood what discovery was there for who made it a profitable thing doing what it's supposed to do he just made it a network that has a bunch of other basic cable style reality stuff and this feels like that somebody who doesn't really

have the appreciation for the catalog or really the care to at least respect the legacy the catalog this this all feels like again accounting stuff just like move this asset here because you know x amount of dollars this yeah exactly no everything's everything nowadays with like these big studios feels like major corporations using um everything seems like algorithm. Everything seems like AI number crunching in some capacity. And this is the ugly side of modern day capitalism where it's like you're the amount that you do for more profit to what comes at the behest of what happens to the people who work with you and your customers as well. Yeah. It is it's sad. I think it's really sad what's happening right now. Yeah. Like don't sell

the walls of the ship to make the ship more profit. to bowl off the shit it's the ship of thesis it's like if you're just going to strip all the parts that are your history that make you what you are like yeah you know then nothing lasts and and nothing matters yeah terrible leader terrible leader not my favorite guy not my favorite guy either and um he makes a lot of money so good for him as much as his drummer is always like oh it's struggling we need more profit and the guy still makes like insane amounts of money he's doing great oh doing amazing as long as david's okay okay everything's okay um yeah so that's my thoughts on it that's john's thoughts and a little bit of

michael's thoughts you can feel the disdain from michael there um all right well okay we've got three other things here let's do it shotgun i would say let's tell well i'm following the flow here a snow white who um content corsair says definitely snow white this movie seems to give every group reason to hate it left and right critics and audiences um yeah but really quick backtrack a second what ketchup entertainment is doing oh as much as we want to dog on them i'm mad respect to ketchup entertainment yeah uh we didn't highlight that at all if they if they are able to save coyote versus acme incredible very cool and if it happens to be a hit even better like i love the idea that somebody out there cares enough and and yeah i've seen their name podcast

up a little here and there and they could be that random studio it's all they do is just say we're gonna buy back girl now yeah yeah yeah do is just save foofies oh my god they just have the ad campaigns are built in we saved it we saved it from Goliath every time it's like a terrible movie and they're like we are broke because these are bad movies and that's why they were kin zazlov is right well and that's the other thing is then you have to go man I hope people show up and support I hope people actually show up when the movie gets released well that's the bigger conundrum right i mean there's another comment here um i wanted to move on to that one about snow white but let me find this other one let me It should be...

It's a... Is it here? It's definitely there. Mickey, a Warner Brothers movie. Ice Cap Lord 710. Mickey 17, potentially losing 75 mil, and its theatrical run, makes me really sad. Between this, Novakane, I'm making an active effort to show up for the smaller films. And I think there's a conversation to be had about all the glooming over Marvel Slop taking over theatrical.

When the reality is, nobody's willing to watch anything else or put their money where their mouth is. It's a fair point because Mickey 17 is like a gigantic budget of a movie. Like they took a what it is. That's a real gamble that they did. You know, like let's get, they got a great director, won an Oscar. You got a stellar freaking cast and based on a book, right? So there's like a lot in there. So yeah, I could see the reason to gamble, but it's a big gamble because it's not some

pre-established franchise thingy majig or really. even like a franchise novel. It's not adapting like fourth wing or Lord of the Rings or some shit. It's sold on the talent involved rather than the thing itself. Yeah. But then you got something from Paramount on the flip side, Novocaine, which in my opinion, incredible marketing. I thought it was great marketing.

I thought it would actually be a pretty reasonable hit. But there is something about it, even though I love the movie. There's something about watching it where the disillusionment theaters and how streaming has diluted because when you start doing gigantic movies movies bigger than mickey 17 yeah like an electric state on your streaming service you've trained and conditioned your audiences now to just and some way it just builds up over time that do i really need to see this in the theaters do i really need to see i could just wait and nova cane is one of those movies where it's Like I think it's great with a crowd because of the kind of action scenes there are in the comedy.

But I agree. Like there is a hypocrisy here with audiences and present company included that we will sometimes be a part. Like we can easily talk these talking points that. I want to make sure he goes name. Right. Ice Cap Lord 710 is talking aboard what he's talking about. Of course we can echo these same points. But it is our due diligence.

I'll say this though in a weird way because of what we do at Real Rejects I was thinking about in our other podcast a lot of people now especially in L.A.

They don't usually just buy a movie tape a lot of people have like some type of membership thing where they pay like 20 bucks a month so that way they can go to the theaters like

several times a month we always buy the VOD when we are watching a new release we are always by unless it's already on a streaming surface Yeah, unless it's already included. Yeah, we're just renting it on prime or something.

So I'm like, we are still contributing money. Yeah. I just wanted to elevate ourselves. But I'm like, I spent, instead of just going to the theaters and watching companion with my, with my, you know, whatever pennies I would have contributed. Yeah. I paid a solid $20 to own companion for the rest of my life. Yeah. And whatever distribution of that cut that comes out to.

But yeah, I mean, like, I don't know what the solution is. I just know there's a conversation that needs to be had about her, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's tricky because I feel like the interesting thing in what we get to do is that I have found, especially in the most recent iteration, like a tremendous bridging of the gap between watching something at home and watching something at the theater because of our unique position in that, I mean, we're kind of in some sort of theater-esque chair and we're, you know, like physically, you're a profile. next to somebody but just having the camera on it kind of feels like there are a bunch of people in the room and in a way I think that's really cool because you can transcribe that to your home but I do love you know I am one of those people who does love the movie theater experience and does kind of agree when people say it's it's a big benefit for us obviously to have

the shorter theatrical window released to VOD then we can cover the movie but part of me is like I feel like more people probably would go to the theater if it was like a three month weight or something like that like growing up in the time especially when it was back in the VHS days where you would forget about a movie's existence and it feels like four years would go by and then finally it's on video you know like that did create this greater sense of like well if I want to see this and be part of the conversation or just get the experience of something I'm excited about I got to do it now or I got to make the time to go do it and there's a certain feeling that like oh yeah everything will be available pretty quick and I think that does

you know that does cut down on your incentive to really frequent the theater and there's the further i think the question you're always going to have trouble dealing with is just like what's the theater experience like and some people have consistently pretty good theater experiences some people mostly associate the theater with being a place that's you know louder or you know whatever unruly uh or not exactly ideal to their particular viewing conditions so it's like I don't know. I feel like the movie industry in and of itself,

the exhibition industry is in a weird place because subscription model, I think is good, is certainly like, it gets people encouraged to go to the movies, which is good.

I don't know what the cut is versus buying just a normal ticket. But it is, I don't know, the commodification does feel real when you do have something like an electric state that is exorbitantly expensive

coming out on your Netflix. And it's like, I get especially that Netflix, and them want the home thing to be a destination to but I do feel strange kind of looking at an electric state and being like

I feel like this is something that you should want to be like broadcast real big and it's foolish to assume that most average people have a massive television or something even today so it's a strange time I feel like for business and movies and I think there is a point in that like

yeah people most flock to these big spectacle pieces and stuff like Marvel, even when Marvel is sort of flailing or, you know, yo-yoing in quality, there's its own narrative of like, are they going to nail it this time? You know, whereas like, I feel like the genuine curiosity of just like, what is this thing? I'll go check it out because the theater as part of our cultural ritual is like a diminished thing now. And it makes me kind of sad. Well, the conversation of like, how do you achieve immersiveness, right? And as we do things so much on autopilot. Most things of how we operate in life is autopilot. And a lot of people,

I'm sure when they're watching an electric state are not watching it in an environment where they can be immersed into it. I'm not saying there aren't people who do. I'm saying there's more than likely most are not really in a controlled environment where the lights are off and the sound is booming and you're able to just be lost in this one movie for a while, right? And then that devalues the that devalues conditions your autopilot ways of ensuring that like a you know like I don't need to watch movies immersed anymore I don't need to have an immersive experience I have two screen experience and then now you take that to movie theaters where you're like no I don't need that now I don't need to feel it because I'm still able to watch a movie without having an immersive

experience it's like it's it's it's real I think a lot of people don't realize like you do kind of train yourself in a way to get used to watching stuff without immersion when movie theaters says they're all about immersion and this is the reality like we're not I don't think we're going to change that like we can't change that where I think studios need to do it had dawned on me while we were talking a lot of the times you'll be like what I'll hear is something I heard with Deadpool and Wolverine is like no why would I buy it it'll be for free on Disney Plus in a few months. And no one questions that. No one questions that it's not for free on Disney Plus. For some reason, because we work on autopilot, we just, we say it's for free, but it's like, no,

it's not. You're paying for Disney Plus. You're paying for the access to the service. Exactly. You're paying monthly for this. We don't even have no ownership over the content. But we don't acknowledge really that we, for some reason, go it'll be for free on Netflix. No, it's not you are paying for it you are you are putting money towards it yeah and hence that's why we get all the other shit of like when the strikes were happening and why people should be financially gaining from it because this is the world and there's all these different societal conditionings I think movies have to work this is why IPs are like we need toys because you need multiple streams of revenue. And there's got to be a new version here in the industry where they don't just

rely. Like, if they're placing all their bets on like, we need to freak to make the money in the theaters are all sort of sanct. Yeah. Like, that's just the reality is, is like, that's not the case anymore. And there has to be some type of true negotiation and discussion with, like, I don't really know how it is post strikes. Like, if it's really that much better, it doesn't sound like it is. I don't, I don't think it is. there's still so much kind of changing and colliding in the industry but like for us at real rejects it's like we have three primary sources of income there's other ways we get income but there's three primary it's like we have ad sense we have patreon and then we have brand deals

those are the three ways if we only had one we'd be kind of screwed like we need the three and I think that's the same thing here is is yeah they do need a proper slice of the pie or there's got to be a way to elevate VOD or make VOD different where you do feel like you're getting more accessories to owning it. Like when you buy a Blu-ray, you get a bunch of shit that you're probably never going to touch. You're not going to look at the special features. You probably won't do it.

I know there's people who do. I'm saying there's a lot of people who don't. Shouts out to the homies who make that shit. But we like options as people. That's why we buy Netflix and never. watch anything because we like options. That's why we have a hundred streaming services we never watch it on because we like options. And I think if VOD simply made it seem like you're going to get shit that you don't put on for that you won't get when it's for free on Disney

plus, you might buy it. And they do sometimes. They add a little something extra, but I think they got to do something a little bit more incentivizing that does allow them to make more money off of that instead of just it has to make money in the theaters it must yeah something that actually makes you think i feel like people most directly jump to it's in the theaters and then eventually it'll show up on a streaming service that i can yeah access with my membership and like people know that vod is a thing but i feel like there's probably a greater barrier of like some people really don't do that a lot or don't know how to interface with it and yeah like sometimes it's unclear like I and maybe it's just because I haven't used the Apple interface as much but like with Apple TV

it's like oh I bought Nosferatu when we did the video and it's like oh it comes with the extended edition and someone was like which version did you watch and I was like well I think it was the theatrical cut but let me see how I can even find and access the extended edition and it was like kind of tricky and and and I had to like figure that out and I feel like if there's a way to kind of remove some of those barriers and to really make it like an apparent event of some kind like, oh yeah, if you get it on the VOD, yeah, there's something special here and that release can also be an event rather than just like, oh, it'll be available on this date, you know, and if you happen to read movie trades or whatever, then you'll know. Yeah, it's like how we,

again, coming from the days where every Friday movies would come out at the Best Buy or whatever on Blu-ray or DVD, you know, there was a greater, before all the archive. existed that we could access. There was a greater sense of like, well, if you like that, you know, go grab a copy to build my library. And yeah, like, I think having streaming now forces you to be a little more selective about what your library is and maybe a little more intentional with amassing things you care to revisit or care to have supported in some way. And I'm like, how can you, there's something about physical, again, it's going to be that physical media thing where there's something about the actual experience of holding, opening, putting a day.

Like, there's just a different investment than just a bunch of digital files or something like that. And there's a lot of stuff out there that's just a bunch of digital files. Yeah, for sure. And there's art. I don't know. I also, you know, used to be a big CD person. And it's like there's the art and the book and there's the whole experience of that stuff. And so like I wish there was a way to add maybe some of that craft and art.

artifice even to the digital space of things, but I don't know really what that would be. And it's like, you know, what we get to do watching at home does feel like some kind of an event and some kind of, you know, shared communal experience. But I think there's also that too

is like we live in a time where it's funny. I feel like people are maybe more starved for and in need of communal experiences and yet are driven way more toward isolated experiences because they're so accessible and they're so on your terms. And I feel like there is. And I feel like there

is something about when you go to the theater or something like that, or even when something comes out on a physical format with a bunch of extra behind the scene stuff, it feels like you're glimpsing a show of some kind, or at least that's what I imagine. Like this is the specialness, because we live in a time now where people are accustomed to the idea that movies exist and there's less of major ground broken on less consistent bases and all that stuff. But like I feel something like an electric state should feel like the sort of event. you're like, damn, people arguably, hopefully

some of the elite talents of these crafts got together and put this thing together and we should all go out to this place to see it, you know, put on display. You know, before we do a two-screen experience at home with it, you know, and then you wonder, to cap this off, I guess,

you hear about Apple TV play, like, I don't know if any of this is true, but they're like, oh, it loses like a billion dollars a year and electric state cost is one of the most expensive movies of all time. and then you're like, and they can't pay the writers or, you know, various other departments who don't get the amount of visibility

that writers or directors or actors do. And it all points to this weird, again, growing pain of like, how do you hold on to, and not to be overly pretentious, but, you know, like the value in the crafting of art in a time where everything's just a little file on your desktop, you know? And sometimes it's just in a cloud and they can take it away whenever they want

and it might never exist. It reminds me of what we were talking about moments ago and the Looney Tune stuff is like you could live in a situation where like some of that stuff just disappears and it's gone and now the history is just forgotten potentially and like you know so many physical movies were lost

before the 50s so much of what was made it doesn't exist anymore and like that's totally possible in a digital era just in a different way like it's ironic that in a time we have such ability to preserve and to lavish these you know crazy exhibitions it's also like the most pedestrian a lot of the stuff has felt because it is just kind of files in a cloud and that's abstract and it doesn't really mean much to any like we don't really know how these things actually work we just use them and whereas like

putting a disc in a machine or something is different or running a reel through a projector is like you can feel that even if you're not operating it okay um but yeah guys I know we're kind of like I expected this today. I'm especially tired today. I'm more tired. I feel like I was more tired every week. It's like, it's a problem. Next podcast you can take that.

I have super fatigued lately. I'm just like, it is not stopping. And it's only about to get better because we're going to toss. Jesus. Oh, yeah. What are we got? Well. We'll do a type five.

No, there is it possible. Content Corsairs is definitely Snow White. this movie the movie seems to give every group of reason to hate it left and right critics and audiences i mean there's like a billion different i'm sure i'm sure you got like a bunch of people who are saying a lot of the same things whether it's the hate side whether it's the way people don't like the hate side um and just in an attempt to do something different i'll just talk about my personal feelings which i'm sure will echo one of those camps in some way i did a short review of snow white did you see it i did um here you know what

what we'll do let's play it hey let's play it and then uh then i'll go into why my personal feelings are here and then also that way the editors can play it they know so i'm just gonna play it out loud into the microphone a little bit but put it on screen editors between john right there's this giant space here just let it play i just got out of watching the for some reason highly controversial snow white adaptation and i'm of two minds about it on one hand i think from like a child's perspective considering the reactions i could hear from kids in the screen probably delivers on being an entertaining film. There were giggles, there were gasps,

and a few moments where the younger audience members seemed genuinely invested. If that's all that matters to you, if you're just looking for something to throw on for a kid who enjoys bright colors, songs, and fantasy, then honestly, you can click off right now, because from the perspective of a dude in his 30s, who has actually liked or even love

some of these live-action Disney adaptations, this one, it isn't great. Put it more on par with the quality of like a Disney Channel original movie. And look, I love the descendants, and the high school musical movies i just saw those like a year ago but even within the disney channel category i'd still say this snow white would be near the lower end this movie isn't without its moments despite what the internet has to say about her rachel zegler does inject some heart

into the role usually the best part of the film there are a couple of musical numbers that are genuinely enjoyable and i do appreciate that the movie tries to expand upon the original instead of just you know being a shot-for-shot remake however that attempt at reinvention leads to the film running into conflicting terrain. It takes itself way too seriously at times while simultaneously trying to carve out its own identity, yet it still feels bogged down by the need to hit like requisite beats

from the OG. It's a movie that doesn't flow well. It's clunky, tonally inconsistent, it's annoying at times, and it's visually uninspired. Speaking of visuals, none of it feels real. It just looks fake. Story-wise, the movie needed strong execution of world building, especially with the changes they attempted, but everything feels

half-cooked and or hollow. It felt like it was like lacking in budget or something. dwarves. A lot of people started laughing when they showed up because they just don't look good. They don't look good. I won't go as far as to say they were like unbearable portrayals or something. Dopey in particular had some genuinely enjoyable moments. I kind of felt like they didn't originally want them in this movie. There's Gal Good Doe. Listen, she's trying. She really is, but I wouldn't be surprised if come award season she gets a Razzie nomination thrown her way. That being said, I still, uh, you know, I had fun watching her. Just maybe not for the reasons the movie intended. Ultimately, Snow White, it is, uh, isn't the disaster? The internet was

typing it up to be, but it's not good either. It's clunky. It's uninspired adaptation that has a few redeeming qualities, but it fails to justify its own existence. I wouldn't rush to the theaters for this one. I'd say maybe wait for Disney Plus. Maybe. I play all that because then I would still see some comments come in. Now, there's three types of comments. All right, to be fair. One version of comments is like, you know, I appreciate the honest review. Um, I appreciate you taking the time to be, uh, actually be fair with it. Love to see it. And I'm like, that was my intention.

Like I'm kind of, I'm weirdly kind of proud of that video because. Sure. And the reason why it's like, it's short form. It was just done for like the shorts and the social media. So it's not a full review. And now that like shorts and Instagram reels have expanded to be three minutes instead of a minute and a half. I wanted to take advantage of that opportunity to give something that could provide a little

bit more fairness and nuance versus you know what the other what another side wants to hear you know the the just say it's a bunch of DEI woke virtue signaling Disney remake bullshit right yeah and we'll just talk about that for a second because I don't think anyone who can listen no can would be like this guy like the movie yeah right um and it's interesting this see the there's still a good amount of people who were like I said there's verse there's variations not everyone there's still a good amount who are still coming at me going like god you're so woke um you this and the one that like was just the stupidest one um to me was and someone pointed out our community post was that it's clearly a paid review he would just make it sound like it's not

as terrible as it is and i was like the dumbest logic i could have ever heard from this is you think disney would pay someone not to say it's good but just make it not sound as terrible as it is make your fc not an a it's the plausible lie yeah it's so it is beyond dumb to me and then um And then, you know, like, and a lot of that I was like, just say it's a piece of shit. What's with all the other stuff? And I'm like, wow, wow. Somebody else said it. Just say what the truth is because they said it and it's the truth.

Yeah, yeah. And it matches what I want to hear. I have not done. I have not refreshed my brain on the stuff Rachel Ziegler has said. I have not done the research on what Galgado has said because I see whatever they have said and done, you know, obviously popping up as. and that's a big contribution Rachel Zegler in particular is a massive I mean but Galgado seems to be getting it a lot on the equal

and for her political point of views or whatever of why people will have written this movie off beforehand for that and it's really easy to just for I think for people who are angry with them I do wonder if they like actually sit alone

when like they actually simmer like another alone time But, and I'm sure there are some people who have taken it really personal to heart, especially when it comes to more of the sensitive, real life, political, controversial things, absolutely. Yeah. But if a lot of these people are also part of the same camp who are like, keep politics out of my movies, keep, keep politics out of my films, right?

Yeah. And it's like, okay, well, that's what I wanted to do. That's why I was pointing out, you know, like, I know there's stuff said. I'm not going to base it on any of that. That stuff aside, here's how the movie was. Let's just look at what the movie is itself. There's none of this other stuff in here that I'm not going to, I personally just, again, like I said,

I didn't refresh myself on what Rachel Ziegler has said. I didn't live in as Gall Godot said, I was just coming from my own personal experience. And it's wild to me how rage bait over a film, like, because there are those channels who do the, when you see like people like dudes in their like 40s and stuff rage i'm like i don't think snow white was your jam growing up i don't think you put much thought into snow white until you saw an opportunity to uh rail on rachel zegler who had some who had some opinions that perhaps

were not from a uh pr standpoint maybe not the smartest of opinions i don't even want to say artist like phrased in a way that it's stupid to say sorry really quick i know i'm just talking about it's stupid for me to say smartest because i don't even really remember what she said so i don't want to say that well yeah i mean i think some of her comments are particularly well articulated to set off a certain group of people the main one that stands out to me is like oh it's not about you know like oh the prince is kind of creepy in the original movie and it's not about her trying to find true love or whatever she wants to step into her power and become the leader she knows she can be yeah or whatever you know it's a more of an empowerment tale than it is a damsel and distress tale and right away people are

going to be upset about that and and yeah i mean like in a time and place where like we're in this weird you know or a boris of like the whole conversation is sort of laborious and like again if the movie's doing it right no one's gonna really notice that heavily anyway so like it's it's a real odd thing of a jig and it is funny that people are so often like separate the art from the artist and yet you know we'll find really pedantic reasons to not to do that until it's their problem yeah they got a problem with the artist yeah and so many of these controversies i feel like not all of them some of them are eventually revealed to be merited but with a movie like this most movies that have some kind of controversy like this like once you see the actual movie you're like uh it's not really

either of these things. And if I know anything, I haven't seen the new Snow White yet, but if I know anything about how these go, like, yeah, there may be some ham-fisted attempts at catering to the more modern sensibility of inclusion. At the same time, I know well enough not to assume that it's going to be any radical manifesto on that stuff. And it's mostly going to be kind of at like a kid slash internet appeasing level. And yeah, like it's an odd, It's another one of those controversies that's just exhausting to deal with, especially on the Rachel Zegler side. Like I feel like there are different reasons people are frustrated by Galgado's involvement, uh, unless it's like the whole snow brown thing in which like, you know, that's that's silly and ridiculous.

But, you know, there are reasons to have issue with, uh, her involvement in a different way than there are just like, oh, Rachel Zegler said these comments. And I think there's also too there. It's just such an odd one. one for them because there's also, I have heard this sort of apparent retooling of the dwarves themselves and the whole idea of like, should there be seven dwarves? What does this say about that stereotype? And they, it sounds like a movie that finds itself woefully in the, in a middle ground of not muchness because it's like you have the solution, which is odd looking CGI dwarves and then like these seven other like bandit characters who from what I've heard are like there for an interlude and maybe potentially.

were the original seven dwarves they were going to be. And, like, I feel like all these controversies kind of suck because they kind of keep things from just being real movies. And instead, you get, like, a Frankenstein of, like, we got to kind of try and please everybody, you know, even though we're fighting an uphill battle because we, I don't know, like, it's so hard to talk about because it's so multi-layered with bullshit stuff. You know, it's like, yeah, comments from the lead actress about the essence of the thing

and her maybe being a little backhanded towards the original material. like I get why you would be a little off put by that or something but you know like people were the the press tour leading up to wicked was like kooky and kind of strange but when the movie came out like that didn't overshadow it you know so sometimes it also just depends on how good the movie is and I think that's ultimately the curse is that then people go just say it's terrible because I hate it already just for existing as it does and then the other people going you know you're so negative you know you you don't know how to have fun and And like, it sounds like it's just kind of like a okayish missed opportunity to do something great. I think this side of it that was, like, upsetting to me was like, the, there's, either way, I actually didn't put much thought into it. I'm like, I wanted to like it. I genuinely did. I went in hoping that, like, oh, it would be really cool. This movie ended up being great.

Like, you imagine how cool that would be? It would be a great film. And I really didn't like it. and it's the weird part was to be told again it's just it is a fraction a loud fraction but it's just a fraction you didn't hate it enough you didn't dislike it to the degree enough because of your values as a person or some shit yeah and um i think it's i don't feel like i was sugar coding and this is really not about me defending myself this is more about the the larger picture of it's like the need for controversy yeah the need for controversy this this ugly side this vitriol

this hunger for controversy where you you really don't want something to succeed you really don't want you want like you you get off on it failing you want to yuck the yum yeah and i i i hate seeing it applied with something i treasure so much which is movies and there's so many people work on these things you know some people just want you to be like incredibly blood and the older i get the more in tune i get with that of how there's like a ton at that same theater i saw it at there was this guy who came up to me not not that day but a different time the time i saw an osirot to this dude who did um he's worked on a couple of disney movies big ones and a pixar movie and he's a story he does storyboarding and he watched um one of our reactions i think it was while it wasn't wild robot

uh oh god i forget which was inside i had two one of the disney ones and he's like what you said about, I said something apparently about artists and storyboard people. And he's like, and no one really points that out. And it meant so much to hear that from you and everything. And I'm like, and that's kind of what I mean is like he is one person out of like a thousand people who are working to create this one thing. And just because of a couple of people you really, that you really want this thing to completely fail. And even if it's not being received well or being disliked you're you're not being ugly enough about it i'm like wow there's this really sad side like what i think that's what i'm getting at like i'm unpacking in in real time i haven't talked about

it is it just kind of makes me sad because i'm at this weird part in life we're like sometimes someone says something and it gets under my skin and i get really mad about it but more often than not now i'm just like wow what kind of individual are you like how how sad are you like how hurt must you be to be towards another person, especially someone you don't know or like someone over an opinion about a movie, especially, or an opinion about that. If you're, or to follow, find me on social media and send me a DM after seeing my YouTube video.

Pick a fight over here. Like who are you and why are you so sad? Like, you know, why isn't there an alternative thing you can go focus on that does suit your wants and needs rather than having to put your energy into your anger about this thing. Yeah, and it's like, how come we're at this point, too? And maybe it's because it was the platform I posted it on.

Why are we at this point, too, where people like, the same people who say it like, we want nuance in our stuff, but when it comes to, like, the journalism side, they want the sound bite. They just want you to just get it over with. They want you to just be, like, completely 100% just one way or another without any nuance to it. people are not as open to discovery no it's not and that's the big part of the of the cinematic

experience and i i do find that what's happening with this snow white movie as someone who doesn't like it i hate the experience around it i'm not even like i haven't really seen much crap i'm like i'm different i feel different about this i'm not like mad at anyone who's who said something to me i'm not mad that anyone i'm not even mad at anyone who was like of course you hate it you did it for views i didn't see much of that but i'm not even mad about that it's it's like why is this why are we here with with films like why i'm more curious about that like why how did we evolve to this point with movies and shows this is a disney movie yeah like what has happened right now this is a remake of a beloved animated classic you know this is a this is something most people

saw his children or when it was like fresh and new and yeah I don't know like much much a do over something that should be kind of innocuous at least you know it's odd especially yeah for for

it's particularly bald-faced in situations like this when you have again like you said a certain contingency of people who just don't seem like the target market for Snow White who suddenly have very invested opinions or on the Little Mermaid or whatever it is. And hey, you know, I understand the want for things to honor whatever source material.

But I don't know. Like, it's weird. I can't fully say like, just don't care if you really do care and they change it and you don't love that. You're entitled to that. That's fine. You know, but at the same time, I feel like we should embrace at least the idea that like, again, it doesn't help in the present that the original one's still there because, you know, maybe you want a new one and maybe you're not going to get the new one. that you wanted but the original one is still there and with these stories i have to feel for as enduring as there someone will do it again someone will man so i don't know i i'm just uh it's weird i'm not drained i'm not any of that i'm just like that's just it this is the new norm is what i'm saying like this is this is a normal thing now it's a byproduct of the fact that i think partly that the barrier between you know them and us the studios and the people who make this is so Finn and now the entertainment industry has like this middle ground that encapsulates us you know

that's like people online but who are professionally kind of putting out their POV and either stoking these fires or having conversation about art movies and shows are supposed to be a communal experience it's supposed to be a unifying experience yeah and you can have disagreements but and now there's so much ugliness from people who haven't even seen these things They haven't even seen these movies. And that's the shocking part to me is like, wow, people hate when you make up an opinion before you've seen something. People hate it. The same people raging hate that.

The people who are mad at me for not being hateful enough, you haven't seen this movie. You probably don't want to or set on rage watching it instead. Yeah, you're going to watch like a bunch of other people who echo that. The same people who bitch about hating someone's echo chamber, I'm like, you're also probably, an echo chamber yourself yeah we shouted each other from mutual echo chambers yeah i don't know i um i don't know i'm kind of in a sad mood but you know yeah it's a sad thing to be hold there's there should never be this much vitriol and and upset unless again someone who's like known well you know unless you have somebody in your movie who's like a known criminal abuser's

person and we're just letting that happen like barring that like you're you yeah if it's just like oh i don't like this version of snow white like that's a bummer at most yeah like it shouldn't be a whole it shouldn't be a missile in a culture war well that's that snow white um Andrew Nickerson 2 855 andrew uh Andrew Nickerson man been a long time uh woohoo love what that was but that's a fist bump for you he says love when the OGs get together um the rumor is uh let's go there's a big one I saw on Twitter a female villain has been cast for Spider-Man for do you think this is what Sadie Sink is

doing what female villain could be introduced could Sadie Sink be playing the Phoenix from another universe as a villain that would be fucking good luck Spider-Man skip right to dark Phoenix in Spider-Man good luck Spider-Man taking it on the Phoenix

your friendly neighborhood red smear across the pavement I'll just web the Phoenix together I'll just yeah trapper and a big web ball I'll get my extra special flame retardant spider web going. Jeez. Yeah, that is what I've heard.

I don't know who she'd be playing. But I did, I was, I'll admit, like, I just went to see what people are theorizing about who, who would be. I'm like, oh, I have no idea who would be. And then, like, obvious names were popping up. One being black cat, Felicia Hardy, skilled cat burglar with incredible agility and bad luck powers. Sometimes an enemy Sometimes a love interest I think

Who Felicia Hardy is Sadie Sink Yeah I think Sadie Sink could pull her off I didn't imagine No no Sadie Sink could pull her off for sure It would be of

I have confidence She could pull her off And it would allow her to show us A couple extra elements We haven't quite glimpsed yet But I imagine her in there Silver Sable Highly trained mercenary

And leader of the Wild Pack Hunts Dangerous Criminals For a price One theory going on around was that like she could be like someone that kingpin hires or something like take down spider man oh and then at the end you get the reveal of like who you work for oh it's kingpin yeah part five he's going to verse kingpin scream from the venom verse uh not a likelihood uh fun but no lady octopus brilliant scientist and protege of dr octopus that would be fun that could be fun and and we're

far enough out from the first spider verse where that would still be like a fun echo that isn't too multiversally overbearing. Madam Hydra, Viper, ruthless terrorist and hydra leader. I don't think it's going to have it. I'm just going to be on. Spider queen. Another one has psychic powers

and the ability to mutate people into spider creatures. If they were... In spider? Yeah, I don't... Actually, yeah. I think if they were to do a... Who do you think, John?

Like, if they... First off, how do you feel about there being a female villain if that is true? I think that would be personally There's something kind of refreshing about that Yeah yeah I think that'd be cool I mean like there are so many It's always interesting because I feel like Spider-Man is at a point now

Where I would love to see some other villains That aren't just you know the big few And I mean yeah Part of me got kind of Like you know I think the most obvious first place to start Would be a Felicia Hardy Black Cat thing And I in my brain kind of wondered because of her dubious status and the sort of femme fatale sometimes she's with you,

sometimes she's against you. Like there's a really fun personal back and forth you could tell that has potential to be neighborhood level. Sable as an option, I think, is maybe a little more convincing if it is that she were to play like a more major villain villain. Like the thing about a black house, I think you would always want to leave it to a, in some kind of ballpark where today, there at odds and tomorrow they could not be rather than like this is my villain whereas like a

sable i feel like you would have more of that potential for just like straight up especially if you go with like oh some kind of involvement to kingpin to to to grow it bigger not that you have to have a spotlight a male villain behind the female villain but you know something yeah any story that involves a crime family adjacent character seems like a nice place to start for Spider-Man. I'm like, yeah, maybe let's stray from mad scientists gone awry for a minute, let's stray from anything too cosmic or to

global, because there was one option in there with Madam Hydra. Like that, I'm like, cool, but too big. You know, I agree, too big. Like, I feel like I'm not the most qualified person to tell you what character it should be, but I feel like a black cat or a sable is more compelling to me

because I feel like those are opportunities where they might not sound as flashy on paper as having some kind of, like Lady Octopus would be my favorite for the fun of it but we just did Docog you know so I feel like we should wait on that and so yeah one of these more city crime adjacent

characters ground level characters characters who can challenge Peter as a person and as Spider-Man I think would be a nice play for a villain and especially you know a Sadie sync character of sorts it's a bit of so strange because like none of the pitches

you know just your spiritual metal detector pings sometimes and you go oh maybe that seems there's just a frequency where that feels right and I haven't heard one yet that feels like that's probably it or that I feel like I would put money on that yeah like I can't place it even though like yes 80s think of this world seems like a natural fit yeah like who would you go with who would you be most excited by hmm a man I guess I would I feel like as you were talking I'm like yeah I agree with everything you said um i i guess i would be more of a say i'd be more excited at finally doing black cat i believe they were doing black cat for amazing spider man and they were

setting that up i believe that's right felicity yes and and then they didn't pay that off so i feel like to finally pay that off would be uh rewarding but and i think it would be at a little bit it's not weird i think it would add a little bit of sexiness to spider man you know like it hasn't really had we were talking when i was talking with aaron we were saying like there hasn't been much a true romantic story yeah um not that i associate like a big romantic story with black cat but i'm like i don't know there could be like there's a bit of a sexual tension a bit of a batman catwoman thing there and i think that would be uh fun to actually bring into the franchise and good time demonstrate a sense of a bit growing a sense of maturity yeah um i'm just more

excited at the prospect at the possibility of there being a female antagonist for Spider-Man. Watch Spider-Man beat the shit out of this one. Yeah. Beat her to a pulp, Spider-Man. Spider-Man goes way harder than on any other villain. No. No. But yeah, I mean

like, yeah, a female antagonist, absolutely. Please. Like, let's do it. Like, why not? And I feel like at this point, after having said goodbye for now, ostensibly to MJ and Ned, like this is the opportunity yeah like there's a hole in his heart and someone can step into film and there's there's a lot you can do there and it feels very street level to do that so anything that veers towards street

level i'd be more excited sadie sink is playing black cat than like jean gray honestly i would be exceptionally more excited it's funny i'd be more excited for sadie sing playing jean gray in the x-men movie than i would be in the spider man movie spider-man versus phoenix just seems like a wow what an odd what we're just going to again throw it in six gear and step on the gas you know like it just seems like a weird prospect

and and indicative of like this identity crisis of like how do we make him neighborhood Spider-Man again? Yeah. Like I feel like there's an odd paradox where you want the content of Spider-Man 4 to come down to a neighborhood level so that we can relish in seeing

the neighborhood magnified to that scale you know rather than And yeah, having, it's like you can generate big stakes in a small location. Absolutely. You know, and I feel like Spider-Man Force should remind us that. Yeah, who do you think she's playing, guys? The last one we'll do. Josh Harris, FK-9BD.

Punisher, do a deep dive on the Punisher. We're just going to do a big deep dive on the Punisher here. Warzone, underrated. No, I got some, I make sure to get some stuff here. John Berndtall, man. Bernthal been speaking. That's right. Burns.

He's been right. Apparently. So the big thing that was coming out was, for case you guys don't know, Daredevil Born Again, was going to be a very different show, more courtroom drama. And then they were like eight episodes into filming.

They were like, we need to start over. And so what we have now is a bit of a hybrid with a lot of new, some of that carries over. And John Bernthal, he first had a lot of hesitation and created differences. talked about how he didn't see the version of frank and what they wanted from frank didn't really make sense to him was not something he was really interested in doing so he had to walk away left it didn't want to be involved with it

but after they restructured it they brought a new writers new showrunner he rejoined the conversation and he was able to be involved in discussions about frank's psychological and physical state leading to a portrayal that felt authentic and true to the character's essence beautiful and yeah so in terms of what they want to do for the punisher in this standalone special see if there's a real openness and hunger to let frank be what frank is to really go full bore is how he put it sure and yeah like the the new thing will be visceral psychologically complex unforgiving emphasizing all the violence portrayal that portrayed will have significant consequences and it seems like he wants to change challenge the audiences. Ensuring the character's artists and complexities are fully realized without compromise. And I'll say, like, in a day and age with Marvel, where when a character returns, it's a fist bump feeling, you know?

And that was the initial response when Frank first shows up in that episode, but it is not a fist bump scene. Wait, Frank showed up. Is there a fun of your appearance? I don't know if you heard. I didn't hear anything about it. So, nobody let me know,

least of all Disney Plus. So when, but that scene was like, wow, this is one of the best MCU Disney Plus scene. This is just two characters having a tragic conversation.

About their lot of, like, irony. Like disturbed, broken men. And I was kind of surprised by I was surprised more in reflecting on it like damn they really just gave us like a 10 minutes

you know something felt like 10 minutes of of Frank Castle and and Matt Murdoch that was about as vulnerable as it can get with these two sure where you're like this is daredevil and punisher they're just sad yeah they are they are but it works it's not in like a it's still rewarding because it's honoring who they are and where they're at at this moment in time. It feels authentic to the characters. And it gave me a bit more of a Marvel appreciation. In retrospect, especially seeing this John Bernthal shit, because at first it was like, this sounds like it's going to be a disaster perhaps to Daredevil Born again. They have to do all this retooling, but that step in doing that seems to have paid off. We talk so much about in this,

a video about leadership and trust and for figy and company involved to have the foresight to have the leadership initiative to be like i know we spent a lot of money already but we have to do this properly and it's testament when you have both charlie cox invented an offrio who spoke on that as well and john berthal being especially candid about like yeah i wasn't going to be involved with what the old thing was because of how they were doing the old thing to listen to the creatives to see what the audiences would want. And I think Marvel should get a lot of credit for that, despite whatever people are feeling about Daredevil Born Again, an actor like Bernthal, who's obviously very much like he holds his integrity in high regard. Like he,

that's, his values are very important to him. And for him to come back based off of that and to know that he can proceed forward with even magnifying that in a way that can challenge audiences and being involved with how that challenge is is levied you know having some creative input on this character he's poured a good amount of his soul into seems like a rare and lovely opportunity for an actor yeah and it's really easy to look at bash shit but behind the scenes and to see what happened and it's not even like a praise marvel talk of what john bernthal's doing right now it is literally about the creative process and how they went back and wanted to respect the creative process and be true to their characters at their core in a way that the actors who played them for years would agree with it um and i have nothing but appreciation in this moment in time for what marvel decided to do with that and how it was able to bring john bernthal back in in a way where that scene is great his return is great it honored it wasn't a fist bump moment and to see and to hear about the future of pun

Punisher. I initially right here on this very show was like, it sounds weird having Punisher on Disney Plus. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing to see. And now I've never had more faith in what they can pull off because of, because of like watching that scene, hearing the everything that led to that scene and perhaps future moments he'll probably have in the show. Yeah, I'm really excited. Hey, and Nora's on the splash page now. It's a different time on Disney Plus. I'm excited too. It's one of the rare occasions where you. hear about reshoots in a heartening way. And granted, you don't know what the old stuff looked like to comment yourself on whether it would have been a better or worse direction. But it does, there's so much with Marvel about reshoots being kind of telltale and like detrimental. And this feels like the rare occasion where you're like, no, it seems like they really did go, wait, wait, hold on, we really got to consider this. And yeah, consider the fact that this is a

particularly important opportunity to get this right and yeah it takes a lot to especially as i imagine the brass of such a big prolific studio to be like you know we're eight we're we're deep in this thing but the right thing to do is to retool and i love the narrative at least of that of yeah he walked away because he wasn't interested in what they were doing and when they got new people in they were more inclusive of his idea which is always going to be more inspiring to any creative person your ideas are welcomed and wanted for the shaping of the character. But that's heartening, again, in the fact that, yes, Marvel is often the first poster child for, like, stuff by committee. And sometimes the committee aspect can be a communal creative act, which is cool.

And reading a little bit just before we started this, you know, this taping. He said something as well about the one, the special presentation, whatever, the one-off Punisher, you know, special that they're making. and I didn't realize he was like yeah I had to pitch for that like they'd read some of my writing and and granted I'm sure John Bernthal if anybody wanted to write their own Punisher thing probably has many feet in the door over some random writer but he was like yeah they you know asked me to come up with something based off some writing that I had you know done before and I you know auditioned for this pitch basically I pitched my idea for what this is And, like, that's really fun and cool.

And, like, granted, got to put your money where your mouth is. There's ways in which that could go very awry. But as it stands now and the way, yeah, he walks his walk and talks his talk, I feel like that's a fun, like, that's a fun creative decision where I'm like, cool. I'm excited to see what you come up with. You seem very invested in who this character is. And while people will always vary on who they think is the most definitive on-screen Punisher, there's no doubt that John Bernthal seems very tapped into the man that,

Frank is as well as who the Punisher is and seeing like again there's a lot of an I for what I understand the new dare devil season is is in some way commenting on the appropriation of the Punisher's symbology and mythos and who uses it and why and whether or not that's actually in line with Frank Castle's actual moral code like there's a as much opportunity as there is for pulp and you know even eye rollable machismo with the Punisher I think there are also some really fun opportunities to discuss traumatic violence darkness in a way that does seem kind of rare and special to that property. And so, yeah, like, it does heart. It's one of the few times where I'm heartened by these weird behind the scenes retoolings because I'm like, yeah, it seems like they did choose the art rather than having to like, uh, fix this because the world's weird right now or, you know, we got to make this amenable to some other project over here. It just seems like, uh, no, we just got to get this right.

And I love that it's a good barometer. Somebody like him saying these things is just a nice barometer because, again, And he's a guy who clearly has the acting chops, but also has a sense. It's like Vincent Dinoffrio. You get the sense that that guy like, and Charlie Cod, like they know and are very invested in these characters. And that's wicked cool, you know, like, that's like when some random guy comes in and does a run of some, you know, superhero comic that you know.

And you're like, oh, damn. Like, you're not just playing this guy. You're about this. You're a real one, John Burton. no that stuff was heartening that was cool and it made me more excited for the presentation for the special yeah um and to see more like i i you know i've seen the scene between them maybe to the confrontation and like yeah like each time he always wins me back you know i'm always like god he really does slip into this guy you guys were talking in previous

episode about like you know the vibe you know like as john burnth always seems just kind of like this go with the flowy guy and then yeah as frank castle he always transports me and uh even you know when the Punisher series has its ups and downs like I've always been fascinated by his take as much as I do love Warzone Ray Stevenson rest in peace you know I'm excited for I'm happy that we have

John Bernthal in the Punisher realm in the Marvel you know creative coterie absolutely with you man I like it but you guys think about Bernthal's comments give your thoughts down below I know we did this in the exact order people wouldn't want

we put all the Marvel stuff at the end. It's for retention, baby. You gotta get to the morsels. We own your contention. They're not going to retain shit. Yeah, you could just hop to the chapter. You're good. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you for having me. Hey, here. John, not over there, but here. You killed it. You killed it today, John. Absolutely killed it. And you still set everything up. I did. I stood in for both of us. Bad ass. Bad ass, dude. I do my best. It's fun. And thanks, Michael, for letting us this space again.

Shouts out to Michael. We'll see you guys soon.