The Reel Rejects - Spider-Man 4 Better Fix This BIG Problem

Starting point is 00:00:00 Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket. To my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now. I get a free Tilly Dog. Not included.

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Starting point is 00:00:25 Celebrate in a fashion responsible. You have to have the age legal for consuming Thank you to Hewle for sponsoring this video. More on them in just a bit. Look at you in Coy's chair. I'm not, White. You killed Coy.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Ladies and gentlemen, Coy is out of the country at the moment. And I asked him immediately, who should substitute for you on this episode? Instant answer. Wasn't even a hesitation. I'm feeling Aaron is what he said. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:56 And I debated him for, 45 minutes of why I was like, I don't think so. There's a guy in my neighborhood who might be better. Yeah, I get it. And he's too black. He's too black for the show. Hey, I have a lighter black friend. But light is this paper?

Starting point is 00:01:13 Like is this freaking thing over here? You never know. But, no, I mean, it made sense. It was like a perfect film. Yeah, I agree. I was thinking the same thing, too. And with what we have to talk about, it just pans out because we decided last week. And then with what we want to talk about today, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:01:28 This is destiny. This is prime Aaron stepping in for Koi because if there's any subjects to talk about today, that Aaron would be great for. I'm like, this is it right here, the main topic at hand. So please welcome Aaron with open arms and show him your respect in the comments and lie to him if you don't think he does a good job today. Lie to me, please. Well, here are the main things we have on hand today. All right. So some little ones that we want to go into.

Starting point is 00:01:52 There's some photos from the Odyssey, which is Christopher Nolan's new movie. photos of Tom Holland and John Berndthol. I don't know how exciting they are, but I want to see them and I haven't seen them yet. Spider-Man and the Punisher? Oh, yeah. I didn't even do that. Yeah, I was like, oh, but it led me to because the other,

Starting point is 00:02:08 well, we're going to it. And the Superman report about how much is writing on this more than we even thought. And the main topic at hand is we want to talk about Spider-Man 4. There's a Sadie Sink casting. We don't know who she's playing. There's theories about it. speaking of theories, put out a community post is the first time we're going to do something like this, where we asked the audience, it was just a couple hours ago, so there's not a whole lot

Starting point is 00:02:33 of comments, but we asked them, what are your theories for Spider-Man for? What do you want to see? What do you not want to see? And I feel like that might be the title of our video, like what we do or something along those lines, what we do or don't want from the next Spider-Man movie. And part of that, I feel like we'll talk about our own theories, what we're hoping they don't do. And also part about Tom Holland's career that I do want to touch on, because, I'm really fascinated with this trajectory here. So how should we kick this off? John, did you email those photos?

Starting point is 00:03:03 What on photos be? People know us for reactions. Indeed, I did. They're at the top. I put them into two separate emails so that you could get the juicy one first. All right. What's the juicy one? Squeeze it out.

Starting point is 00:03:14 It's just the one where you can see them more head on. Okay. All right. The juicy one. Whoa. What the hell? Wait, no, I'll pass the lap. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:03:23 I'm excited. Do you have your phone? Yeah. Okay, just pull out of your phone because we have, it's been email to you. Let me see, let me see. That's crazy. Has John Berthal been in a Nolan movie yet? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:03:34 I love this look on him. He looks barbaric. Was it, was it just sent over? Yeah, oh, you might have just sent it to me. Here, you can see the photo here on the laptop. This is a crazy. I just think things to be good for Aaron's first time on this podcast. I just think things to go well.

Starting point is 00:03:47 Can you see that? Walt Berntham Bernthau. Von Bald Burnthau with a beard. He looks great. Is this an... Is that Holland next one? Yeah. At first I thought that was like a mocap outfit

Starting point is 00:03:58 because I'm so used to seeing him in mocap outfits on the behind the scene stuff. But no, that's his actual like outfit for the Odyssey, the costume. I love it. Ooh, that's a cool shot. Let me see this other one that we have here that John sent over.

Starting point is 00:04:11 Oh, man. Tom Holland would be a great link for the Zelda. Okay. Link doesn't really talks. I guess like emoting. Yeah. But he's got the look. Even the scene in this and this time period and stuff and the fan

Starting point is 00:04:24 fantastical time period. I think he's got the look and all the costumes and stuff. I think it's smart what he's doing because he obviously has a lot of a strong connection with Robert Downey Jr. And a big part of the MCU was Spider-Man and Iron Man and their connection together. And you also know some of the stories about how Robert Downey Jr. looked after Tom Holland and there's a bit of a mentor in real life type of relationship dynamic between them. And the reason I'm bringing this, up, especially not realizing that, Robert Downey Jr. was also just in Christopher Nolan's last movie and won an Oscar. And he's also coming back to the MCU, Robert Downey Jr. And Tom Holland hasn't really been able to break out of Spider-Man, right? Yeah, he's at our time. He's done other movies that people have been receptive to his performances. I haven't seen Cherry, but a lot of our audience has been really positive on his work in Cherry. He's phenomenal. I love that. I saw the drive-through. Yeah, he's really good in that movie. And I know he came onto the scene with the impossible which i thought he was great and so but he hasn't really had like that

Starting point is 00:05:27 gangbuster hit i think they were hoping like uncharted might be that one but it really didn't do the pull that they that they wanted and from seeing tom holland go on the podcast to showing more of like an adult personal side to him to seeing him working with christopher nolan but to also be smart career-wise to continue with spider-man for and be a producer on it where he's getting creative input. I think to do both a Christopher Nolan drama epic film and continue on in Spider-Man, I feel like this one-two combo can be the catapult for a brand new direction for Tom Holland's career. Definitely, yeah. I feel like it's interesting. A lot of MCU actors or just superhero actors in general have a hard time breaking out of that mold that the that's garnered them some

Starting point is 00:06:17 success and only recently as someone like robert dana jr himself been able to do that with something like oppenheimer so the fact that tom holland is kind of in a way following that trajectory is also interesting and i hope he's able to find success outside of that because he's really good i started that one show he was in um i think like the quiet room that's right he did a show i forgot about that yeah with amanda scyfried and he was he was really great in it i was like man this kid does this dude like he's grown man what you just said right there this kid yeah and he's not a kid. He's like the same as me there. He's not a kid, but he's constantly looked at as a kid, which was great for Spider-Man, but Spider-Man's in his college years now. I think I saw he's

Starting point is 00:06:56 playing like Odysseus's son. Okay, is he supposed to be a kid? Do you know? Maybe like a grown man. I mean, he didn't look like a kid in those photos. He just looks like a young adult. He just has a youthful face. Yeah. And that's kind of what's garnered him part of the success by being a high schooler. But hopefully they're able to transition him out of that because he deserves to be something larger than the pigeonhole he's kind of been put in. And he's been doing that with his other roles, challenging that perception. Do you know what Cherry's about?

Starting point is 00:07:23 Yeah, yeah, I've seen the trailer. So, yeah, like he's a former vet. He becomes a drug addict, and I'm not going to spoil the rest of the movie. But, yeah, he's been doing these other roles that's gotten him this perception that's outside of that, but again, there's a smaller indie movie. So hopefully the new movie will give him a chance to

Starting point is 00:07:41 break out of that even more. Absolutely. It is at least believed right now that Holland will be playing Telemachus, who is the son of Odysseus. Okay. And he plays a significant role in searching for his missing father. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. And Tom Holland, that character's 45 years old, right? That's right.

Starting point is 00:07:57 Yeah, yeah. He's playing a middle-aged man in this one. He's actually going to go from a young man to like an old wizened elder by the end of the movie. That's Nolan's time thing in this one. He's going to be telling the story under pounds and pounds of old age makeup. I mean, what you said about him going into being a man that is he is a man first off and he's like a successful beer company of a non-alcoholic beer or

Starting point is 00:08:21 something like that yeah beer oh I think he's an entrepreneur and there was a time you've heard of the actor Thomas Hanks right um he's um Thompson Hanks I'm not sure he's Woody right he's Woody Woody yes in the lady killers so um Tom Hanks at one point I remember seeing an interview he did on that inside the actor's studio James Lipton he used to have a very different career before he was the Tom Hanks that we know where he was doing a lot more like comedy stuff, a lot of work that I'm not familiar with of his past

Starting point is 00:08:51 but he had a point where he's like I want to, he said specifically I want to play men, I want to be a man and I do think this could be the next wave for what Tom Holland's going to do and so I like seeing all facets of his personality right now and it's getting me more excited

Starting point is 00:09:07 for his future to especially go beyond just him being Spider-Man. If he could be the actor who can do both continue playing Spider-Man and continue having a big career versus, like, Toby McGuire didn't seem like he could get past that. Andrew Garfield did, but he got the boot on Spider-Man. If he could be the first actor to do both coincide, ah, I'd be so happy for him.

Starting point is 00:09:28 I think Garfield's one of the few that broke out of that, who was Spider-Man and was still able to have, like, a thriving career post-Spider-Man. And I guess Toby did that to some extent, but he's not doing as many movies these days. And then Spider-Man is kind of what brought him back when he was in Babylon. on and I think a couple of other things.

Starting point is 00:09:44 But yeah, I agree. I would hope that him playing somebody's son wouldn't keep him within that youthful kid box and hopefully they give him a chance to evolve into a man within the narrative that they have presented. But I also hope Spider-Man 4 does that.

Starting point is 00:10:00 I know we'll get into a little bit more about our opinions about Spider-Man 4 going forward or later on in the conversation, but I hope that Spider-Man for gives him an opportunity to change the mold of what we perceive him to be as like the the lead within a sidekick within his own movie I hope he can be that man and have these mature problems within that narrative well you know what we could do the other

Starting point is 00:10:27 stuff later let's go into it I'm like I want to talk about it let's go into it I'm gonna pull up the community post in a bit or before we do that why don't we just talk first yeah I want to go through what are what people said in the community post and if it if it works out if you guys like it we'll do we'll do that more often too um sadie sink has been cast in it i love this actress i think she's amazing obviously everyone knows her from stranger things i thought her work in um the whale was very much overlooked did you see that movie i did she's great in it i thought she was incredible in that film she's the daughter again right yeah yeah yeah that final scene of the movie just wow destroyed me i had a moment there when i watched the whale and i was working on the thumbnail and i had the whale destroyed me and then i was

Starting point is 00:11:10 like, is this going to sound like insensitive? Like, I'm saying this guy who sat on me. Let you guys into the thought process. When you're trying to come up with the whale wrecked me. I'm like, I don't think anyone's going to think this. I was crushed by the whale. So we're going to be thinking of something like fat phobic joke or something like. Greg gets canceled for a whale title.

Starting point is 00:11:36 Big fat feels. I got it. Anyway, Spider-Man, with Sadie Sink, how do you feel about, I mean, that's a silly question, such a movie news question. Let me just ask, who do you think she's going to play? That's an interesting question, because I've seen a few things online. I weirdly think she might be Jean Grey, and I don't like that. Why do you think Gene Gray? Well, I think before this came out, there were, like, reports that she was going to be

Starting point is 00:12:10 has in the MCU as Gene Gray and then it came out as of yesterday recording this that she's going to be in Spider-Man 4 so I'm like okay one plus 1 equals 2 and I don't think that's the place to introduce X-Men characters and it kind of

Starting point is 00:12:26 speaks to the fact that I don't think they trust Tom Holland or that his iteration of Spider-Man to just stand on his own as a Spider-Man not dependent upon the larger universe and that makes he's sad because he's a great actor

Starting point is 00:12:42 that we've talked about before and you know Spider-Man is largely known for his individual stories and I don't think introducing the X-Men is beneficial to his character granted I haven't read the script I don't know what their exact plan is I know that prior

Starting point is 00:12:58 to this casting they had a conversation or there were reports that there was this feud between Marvel and Sony about them wanting to do something that's either more ground level which I think Marvel wanted to do and Sony wanted to do something like bigger and more multiverse-esque. So I wonder where this new plan sits into it. I've seen a couple different things. I know she's the first person cast in the movie, but I've also seen people say that

Starting point is 00:13:20 she's the new co-lead of the movie. And I don't know if that's the case. Do you think she's the co-lead? And also, what do you think about? I think it's, I think she would be the co-lead only because of the early stage of casting, the fact that it's been, I don't know if it was like if all the trades just took off with it, but it's essentially the announcement that she's in it, right? And the fact that it's being reported so big right now, I would imagine she's the co-lead. Gene Gray is the one I heard about forever, right?

Starting point is 00:13:53 Like I see all the AI thumbnails of like her in the X-Men suit and stuff. I feel like she would be a good Gene Gray. I do think that if they did do that, I think she would be an excellent Gene Gray. Man, she really would be. I haven't really put much thought in it. Now that I'm thinking about, like, what I love about Gene Gray. And then if you're starting off with someone who, again, like Tom Holman, who has a very youthful, like she's young, what to have.

Starting point is 00:14:18 Yeah, to have that youthful look and then grow and to become the Phoenix over time. Like, oh, yeah, she would be a damn good, Jean Grey. And she has the emotional range already, you know, so it would be cool. I agree, though, I would not be excited by that theory, that rumor of her. being jean gray in especially if it's a co-lead but even if it's like a small supporting role i don't feel like it's she and gene gray should be in in the spider-man form i never associate jean gray with spider-man i think in a weird taboo like hail mary of an answer if i'd be happy she's not jean gray and they do something that we've never seen the spider-man movie which would be black hat

Starting point is 00:15:01 i'm like i'd be i'd be curious to see that like let's get black hat in a spider-man movie maybe she's in it She's not, but if you do a curveball and, you know, do maybe something a little more unconventional, make her that, that would be cool. But if she is Gene Gray, I think that just presents an interesting dilemma because Gene Gray is already super powerful as a character. Maybe they don't start it off that way, but just the nature of her powers invites larger threats. Also with her being so young, she's 22, going on 23 as the time of recording this. And I'm like, I like it because, you know, when you start an X-Men franchise, I think the X-Men start off as like younger, they start off as teenagers, right? And I'm like, okay, at what point do you introduce Wolverine? Because Wolverine's like a burly, hairy short dude.

Starting point is 00:15:50 And like, I don't know, I think optics is like a little strange for like this, this young 20-year-old girl to be with like a 45-year-old Wolverine. Think about that. You can just get Finn Wolfhard to play Wolverine. It would be all right. Yeah, man. The other theory that is the prevailing one is that she's Mary Jane Watson from another universe. I don't like that. I'm not a fan of that either.

Starting point is 00:16:15 Just because we already have an MJ and let's keep it focused. What I'm not a fan of is the multiverse idea. I don't feel like they should do that. We just did it. I think we just did it. MCU seems like it's interested on putting some type of button on, you know, button on it with the Avengers, the next two Avengers movies, like, let's put a close

Starting point is 00:16:38 on this. Yeah. And No Way Home had a very powerful ending. It was a strong ending with a secret dovetail origin story about Spider-Man, about Tom Holland, Spider-Man. We're like, oh shit, we've been watching

Starting point is 00:16:54 an origin tale this whole time. We didn't even really know that it was the origin tale to him being street level, and I think it would massively undercut that experience to go from something as grand as that with a real zeroed in focus when I think that's what

Starting point is 00:17:10 we want is that's why we love to show your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Because as big as it is, as cool as it is, it still feels like what the title implies. A New York City Spider-Man, one who is a defender of New York City. So I want them

Starting point is 00:17:26 to keep that. And so doing like a Mary Jane Watson, I'm just not a big fan of that. We already have an MJ. We already have like Zendaya as Zaddea and him are also, there's also the real life aspect that they're together. I feel like that would be kind of, I don't think you want to piss off Zendaya, right? I don't think you want to do something as intrusive as that. Yeah, there's also a theory that she was going to be Gwen Stacy.

Starting point is 00:17:48 And even that, I'm like, I would believe that, though. I could believe it. I could see it, you know, she could dye your hair blonde, sure. But I also feel like, yeah, we just had that. We just had him have a love interest. And Granite Spider-Spotterman has a ton of love interest in the comics. Like, this is something that's well-known about the character. but I'm like what is our intention here

Starting point is 00:18:06 and if they do do the multiversal route I feel like it would be with the intention of reversing what they did in the last movie because you have the multiverse take away Peter Parker's life and then I imagine they would have the multiverse reintroduced to reinstate his sense of normalcy within his life because I don't know how long Spider-Man without Peter Parker is sustainable

Starting point is 00:18:26 for their narrative granted I would not mind that I would love if we had a Spider-Man that was all on like the Batman where he's just in the suit for like 90% of the movie. I think that'd be great. I don't think they would ever do that, but I think it'd be interesting. Well, I think, I mean,

Starting point is 00:18:42 I'm not opposed to the Gwen Stacy idea. We haven't had Gwen Stacy in Tom Holland Spider-Man yet. And with the fact that MJ, Zendaya's MJ, does not know who Peter Parker is, and he's starting off in school, I think there is a plot and an organic opportunity. It's not a high school story, of a college story, there's an organic opportunity to actually introduce Gwen Stacey into

Starting point is 00:19:07 the fold. And then, you know, like he's trying to start a new life. And to start a new life, that means you have to have new romance. You've got to have new friendships. And I see, I can see how it can come in the form of Sadie Sink as Gwen Stacey. I think that would be actually not a bad call personally. I can see it. And then we introduce his other more established supporting characters because I know that characters like traditionally MJ, Harry, and I believe Gwen. We haven't even got a Harry yet, huh? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:38 Or introduced in his college age and people like Flash Thompson, Liz are more his high school era. So if we were to evolve his cast of characters, present him with different types of problems from mature problems, a different type of romantic energy or exchange within someone like a Gwen Stacey, I think that gives us a chance to mature the character to be. to get us in a different light. Plus, we have a different director, which will bring different sentiments to what it's like

Starting point is 00:20:04 to present a Spider-Man story. Do we know if it's the same writers or if it's a different team? I have no idea. John? John! John, look at the same thing. Give me the prompt again.

Starting point is 00:20:16 I was looking up something else. Who's writing Spider-Man for? Is it the same people as last time, or we got a new team? Chris McKenna and Eric Summers. There you previously worked on Spider-Man. Homecoming. Same people, yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:27 Just different director of this. time. Well, I also think a romantic story, we haven't really even done the romantic story with Tom Holland. If you think about, like, there's a romance and there's like a cuteness to them. Yeah. But like Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone is a romantic story. Yeah. You know, Mary Jane and, you know, Kirsten Dots and Toy McGuire, that's a romantic story. I don't really feel like it ever got really fleshed or lived in the boyfriend-girlfriend side of them. It's like, you just meet that. MJ and the first one, you barely know her.

Starting point is 00:21:00 And the second one, it's like, I like her, all of a sudden. And then the third one, they're together, but it's not really anything about that. Yeah, it's really about the conflict at hand. And she's just more of a support system for him rather than addressing the highs and lows of being in a relationship with a superhero. And I think it could be a personal conflict, too, if he does have residual feelings for MJ, but she doesn't remember him and he has to let her go and, like, the difficulties of moving on into a new relationship. and how much more heartbreaking would it be for a guy who's like, I didn't think I could move on from the person who I thought would be the love of my life, but I had to, and then I found you, and then next thing you know,

Starting point is 00:21:36 she's dead from, you know, the back snap or whatever they decided to do again, yeah. Do you think it would be beneficial or detrimental to have Zendaya's MJ in this movie as well, if you're introducing a new love interest? I think it would be beneficial to have MJ still, I don't think she has to, I don't know if she has to be like as co-lead, but to rebuild into that would be pretty cool to me. Okay. Starting from that place of we don't know each other,

Starting point is 00:22:03 but I'm just kind of like around. Yeah, yeah. I just think there's a lot you could do via the romantic angle. And I know there's so much we want to get into with it. So let's like let our audience be the springboard for a lot of this. I'll start reading off comments. And they're mainly hate comments about us.

Starting point is 00:22:20 That's great. Let's just read those, actually. If I look progressively more sad and angry as we go through this, It has nothing to do with it. Imagine she's just like, I wrote all those comments. A bunch of dummy accounts. But I just punch the laptops

Starting point is 00:22:37 because it's getting a lot of support. Okay, so the top comment is from Chorari 7-826, who says, I saw a theory that she will play Spider-Man and MJ's daughter. Oh, interesting. From the Sam Ramey, yeah, May-Day Parker. That's got to be it, right?

Starting point is 00:22:54 That's May-Day Parker, the daughter of Spada. Spider-Man from the Sam Ramey universe. That's an interesting one. Well, how do you mean? How do you feel about it? I feel like they're trying to tie it a little bit more. Because what Sony really has going for them with Spider-Man is the Spider-Bers animated movies. True. That's definitely an oddball choice. It's unconventional. I think it depends. I need to see how they execute that. But my immediate reaction is, huh, that's weird. I don't.

Starting point is 00:23:26 know if I like that because I feel like again that kind of goes speaking to them opening the multiverse door again and I would prefer them to keep it smaller on the ground you know what I would like in the spider-man movie if they can get the BB report going in we see New York in the feel of New York in this grounded Spider-Man that's what I would want but as far as the your question goes I'm not I'm not close to the idea I it wouldn't be my choice but if they do if they find an interesting way into it why not like what i guess i'd have to know what the narrative is to know what i feel about it and it's it's kind of a weird thing right because it's it's a theory about a character she's playing and a theory about a character would mean that it's the you have to something

Starting point is 00:24:07 try to theorize a whole plot in your own head of how that would make sense and what it would be and like am i on board with this completely convoluted contrived thing i've just made up so wait wait my brain has been going okay she's co-leets new love interest so if she's made a parker from a different universe and that's what they're trying to do Because I'm like, is he trying to, his multiversal daughter? I'm like, that's, I don't know. I don't know if that's where they're going. Are you asking me, is he going to be a romantic relationship with his multiversal,

Starting point is 00:24:36 but is that what you think? Is that what you think I'm saying? Are we asking each other right now? That's what I thought. Part of me, I was like, is that what they're trying to do with this? No, hell no. No, no, I don't. I mean, that, that was not a weird.

Starting point is 00:24:52 That's pretty weird. It would be, no, I mean, in the romantic part, Yeah, it's not Game of Thrones we're watching. It would be a, it would be fun. I think it would be fun if it is like, you know how into the Spider-Verse movie, how there was like a Peter Parker who's like a watched up Peter Parker, and then he befriends Miles Morales.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Yeah. So if you have a Spider-Man here, and it could be a very unique, weird dynamic of like, you're my daughter from like another universe. I think there is some fun dynamics that you, could have with that you can back to the future that or yes you can yeah i was going to say or if they're going to do another multiversal story i wouldn't again it'd be how they execute it but rather than people come to peter's universe you put peter in another universe and have him

Starting point is 00:25:44 try to interact with that world hmm hmm okay the inverse of no way home all right so here i'm looking up this character right now because i see a couple of comments that are oh yeah yeah of course what i'm talking about this uh this from spider man and friends um the big a big comment that i'm seeing a lot of in here like from a list aniel and chris chip crisper fire star that's the big one is that they think she's playing fire star in it fire star wasn't she um and correct me from wrong wasn't she in the spider man and his amazing that's a little i said spider man and friends spider man and amazing friends that's the one yeah Yeah, okay. I mean, sure.

Starting point is 00:26:29 It's another character, you know, that we haven't had in the MCU. But again, that kind of goes back to my thing about let's just, can we just have Spider-Man, just be Spider-Man by himself? But wouldn't you need other characters in the movie? Yeah, but you don't need other superheroes. You think any other superhero would be a, would be a distraction, any other superhero? I guess it depends on how they use them. them because if it's more along the lines of how James Gunn is using other superheroes as like a to show the divide between his life and have them be

Starting point is 00:27:02 supporting but really be the focus have be Spider-Man then I think that's okay I'm of two minds because I'm like I don't want anybody else to be in a Spider-Man movie who's saving people aside from Spider-Man or Daredevil like yeah yeah I don't want Daredevil support but other than that I was like let's just Spider-Man be Spider-Man by himself well it's funny about what you said it's like the the second top comment it's from Game Night J-14. Before I move on to that, let me just clarify. For people who don't know who Firestar is,

Starting point is 00:27:31 Angelica Jones, mutant superhero, known for her ability to generate and control microwave radiation and microwaves, which she uses to fly and create, such a dad joke, create intense heat blast. And she was originally creative for Spider-Man and his amazing friends as a replacement for the human torch,

Starting point is 00:27:51 and then later became a part of Marvel Comics characters, eventually appearing in the X-Men and the New Warriors. So, yeah, that would be cool for her to play an actual superhero versus just another love interest. I actually do find that more appealing of a cast than Gwen Stacy personally because it's not the level of distraction, right? Like with the James Gunn Superman movie, it always depends on what other, like throwing in how Jordan has Green Lantern would be very different than Guy Gardner's Green Lantern. Very different optics, very different reception. They're very like completely different narrative. Yeah, very different type of guys.

Starting point is 00:28:29 So to me, the level of impact of introducing a character like Firestar is not the same thing as having Gene Gray show up in there, you know? Yeah, because we look a little overshadowing potentially because you're thinking about the future of X-Men rather than just the containedness of whatever the story is. Well, you pitch Black Cat earlier too, but you're okay with that? Because that's a supporting Spider-Man character. And she's more of a, like, femme fatale, like, she can work within a context that brings something out of Spider-Man, but that's already established within what we know Spider-Man to be, rather than bringing some extra property or something not associated with Spider-Man to take away the focus from Spider-Man. I don't want Spider-Man to be an X-Men commercial. I want Spider-Man to just be about Spider-Man. That's fair.

Starting point is 00:29:15 That's fair. I think what we're done with the MCU is it being a commercial in general for whatever is next. I mean, with certain things, sure, but I feel like we've gotten better about that with having it be the thing itself and then whatever the post-credit scene is, teases the future. Like, I think like Shang-Chi was like that. All of Shang-she was pretty contained, except for the post-credit scene. Miss Marvel largely, I felt like was contained. Daredevil, so far, seems to be pretty contained. So, you know, I, you guys had a conversation about this last week about, about Doomsday, about how things, how the MCU in the past,

Starting point is 00:29:51 like kind of set up stuff right to lead into Thanos I'm of the I don't really believe that you need to do that I think things can just be established in the film itself and just we see where all these characters are leading into that event within the context of the film just really quickly and having them form because it's like in that regard it could be similar to um to the original um Avengers movie you're just it's about the the formation but to back to the topic at hand uh yeah I just don't want this to be a commercial for for the X-Men I think Spider-Man should be able to down in his own unless whatever their story is is to reflect something that Spider-Wood needs to learn back into himself.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Like, if we utilize these characters in a way that allow us to understand or challenge Peter in a way that he hadn't been challenged before to help him grow narratively and internally, I think that's great. But if it's not to do that and it's just to have other characters and creative ways to show new action scenes, I feel like that can run the risk of feeling. cheap again it's all about execution i mean what's the feeling so why why do you why do you think you why do you love spider man i'll just ask that what do you why do you feel like you personally love the character of spider man why do you connect with him so much i love spider man because

Starting point is 00:31:10 he is willing to do the right thing at the cost of the stabilization of his life he he is run by this code. With great power comes great responsibility. If you can, then you must. And I feel like that level of altruism is very inspiring. I feel like it speaks to the heart of people and their desire, inherent desire, to want to do good. That's how I strive to be. I feel like if I have the ability to do something that's within my power, it is my obligation to do said thing. Because I am someone who cares about people. I want to help people. And I feel like Spider-Man is the model example for that. And where do you think the divide is, if there is a divide,

Starting point is 00:31:59 where do you think the divide is for you from when you hear what people are kind of thinking or wanting from another Spider-Man movie versus why you love Spider-Man? What do I think people want from a Spider-Man movie versus why I love Spider-Man? I guess a quick little example would be, a lot of people are excited about the prospect of her being Gene Gray. How does that conflict with your love for Spider-Man beyond it just might distract or overshadow? You don't feel like it will thematically tie into the character narrative that you are hoping to see, right?

Starting point is 00:32:33 Is that what I'm kind of getting at here? Is that what I'm picking up on? Yeah, I feel like having an ensemble of other heroes runs the risk of decentralizing his personal conflict or his personal battle with his relationship to justice. I feel as though if we're having these other heroes involved, it could dampen that. I think

Starting point is 00:33:01 it runs the risk of damping something like that. And I also feel like it runs a risk of having him have the sense of maybe internal inadequacy of like, oh, these guys are also good at this thing. And I'm like, I'm terrible of being Spider-Man, which I feel like

Starting point is 00:33:16 we've semi-done before and I just don't want to see Spider-Man in that light. Yeah, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to. I want him to be able to stand on his own, solve his own problems without having the aid of someone like Shield or Tony Stark or other Spider-Man. I want him to feel... And you kind of run into the same problem if you have other superheroes. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:33:38 Okay, I get it now. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Granted, he did kind of, I guess, sort of what Homecoming was about with the fact that he needs to be his own man. If you're nothing without the suit, then he shouldn't have it. and him like doing the come on spider man i think that stuff was really good but he still had like a super suit and i like that implication at the end of no way home where he designed his own suit he has his own apartment he's struggling to pay rent he's he's the lowest he's ever been and to watch him

Starting point is 00:34:07 independently build himself back up without the reliance of other people to aid him i feel like has the potential to be a very strong and emotionally satisfying story I think one of the, well, you just, something you just said made me realize, like, if they go multiverse, then it's going to be a contributing factor to one of the things that I've never really quite touched on. That is, to me, kind of an issue with the Tom Holland trilogy of films. They don't ever really follow through on their endings of the previous movies. So the last movie, what you just said with, like, him coming into his own and such, I mean, and far from home, it starts off at him and at me are like, this is cool. Yeah, you're Spider-Man.

Starting point is 00:34:49 Yeah, and when it's like, wow, that could have been a very personal thing they have to work through as aunt and nephew, right? It could have been something very powerful instead of a, that's funny and cute and it lasted a scene. But it was the ending of the last one. Yeah, I feel like it kind of cheapens that. It cheapens that. And then even him creating his own suit via stark tech in that one as well. And then that one ends, far from home ends with like, oh my God, the news report, that crazy, brilliant Spider-Man. ending. I guess you kind of get in in the first few minutes of No Way Home where he's like

Starting point is 00:35:23 on the run. Yeah. It's kind of how I feel about some of the drastic world movie. Oh, you haven't seen this. We haven't seen this? I've seen them once, but don't really remember that at all. No. No. But yeah, I think then it becomes about a completely different thing in No Way Home, right? With Dr. Strange and multiverse, but the stakes and the consequences of like the danger that he's in doesn't feel as like strongly press. present in no way home before the spell. It's just kind of, this is kind of an annoying chapter in my life right now.

Starting point is 00:35:56 Versus like a really, like hard time. Like the trial of Peter Parker, did he kill in the stereo? It's all kind of just glossed over really quick to get to your multiversal plot. And I think if they went multiversal again, I'm like, you're doing it again.

Starting point is 00:36:09 You're, you had an ending. And you're totally steering away from your ending that you had. And I would agree then. Yeah, I now see the big difference between like a black cat and a, and a fire star. But to what you said earlier, Game Night J-14 is saying I wanted street level, especially after what's been going on in Daredevil.

Starting point is 00:36:30 Yes. They're doing the Registration Act in Daredevil. One thing Daredevil is incredibly succeeding at, whether or not you're loving the show is I think they really make the presence of New York city feel very much alive. Like New York is a beautiful city that I absolutely love and want to move to one day. So the New Yorkers out there. We want to move there.

Starting point is 00:36:51 We want to go. We would love it. We would love to move to New York. But anyway, and within New York, you know, there's a lot of superheroes that are just based out there. And that was part of the fun of the Netflix show was it like Netflix New York with the defenders and such. And I am with the registration act happening. The fact that you do officially with this Disney Plus show are making it crystal clear, Daredevil, Kingpin. They're in the Marvel Cinematic Universe now.

Starting point is 00:37:17 Kingpin references. Spider-Man in the second episode. Yes. I don't feel like Kingpin and Daredevil should be in the fourth one. I do think one of the rumors is that they're filming four and five back-to-back. I would not be upset if they did do part five with Spider-Man and Daredevil. I think that would be pretty cool. Allow Matt Murdoch, allow Charlie Cox to have his live-action movie because he only had a cameo in No Way Home,

Starting point is 00:37:47 but he could actually be live action Daredevil in the movie. You get a seat at Brought to Life. Like in your friendly neighborhood, Spider-Man, that interaction between him and Daredevil was so fun. It was great. It was great. It was amazing. I was like, thank you.

Starting point is 00:37:58 And you know it would be good in live action with the two of them. They're opening up this world. Kingpin is also very much a Spider-Man villain. Yes. But the MCU is making it very clear that the main antagonist, the main rival for Kingpin is Echo. No, it's the main rival for Kingpin. is Daredevil.

Starting point is 00:38:18 So if you are in a situation where they're building up the Registration Act and you could do your Part 5 where you could have Vincent DeNofrio and Matt Murdoch, Charlie Cox, in Spider-Man 5, that would be really sweet.

Starting point is 00:38:31 I mean, imagine that that's like the post-credit scene for what's going to come in the next in Spider-Man 4. So I think you should do your part 4, keep it very focus on the things that we're talking about. And then part 5,

Starting point is 00:38:43 do your Spider-Man and Daredevil movie. And the thing is we're going to run with John Bernthal here. I'm like, oh, shit, that would be funny, you know, like, if you do get some Punisher in there, I don't know how that works, but in the Spider-Man movie, because he's a very violent guy. However, that would be my personal wish. I'm not going to sell myself on any of these ideas because I got to go whatever they give us, but I think that would be the avenue to go. You know, I've thought about this myself, and I was like, how would they do Spider-Man and Daredevil and Kingpin and all have them interact? because we know that for some ungodly reason, I know it's like legal crap and whatnot.

Starting point is 00:39:17 Can we cuss in here or should we not do that? It depends. Can I say the F word? Once. Like a PG-13 podcast. Parental guidance. Never know. Never know YouTube these days.

Starting point is 00:39:35 People think we're like just, you know, being hyper-sensitive. But we have, I shared it before on the community. pages. We'll get completely demonetized for one second. That's insane. You never know. Sometimes it's like, that's weird. We didn't get demonetized for Invincible. But we're fine no, okay. Just a public service announcement. We do not enjoy censoring movies. No, we don't. We don't enjoy doing it.

Starting point is 00:39:56 What do you, what do you want to say? What was the F-Pour? I'll say that. I was just, I was curious. I thought I had in the back of my head. But I don't know a world where that could be possible with Spider-Man on even on the TV show because spotlight live action Spider-Man can't exist within Marvel properties or Marvel live-action properties, but obviously someone like Daredevil, Kingpin, in theory, could appear in a film. Now, I like it on the surface, but when I think about it deeper, I feel like that runs a risk of cheapening the experience of Daredevil by having it be like, okay, we're starting this

Starting point is 00:40:35 story with the registration act in Kingpin on TV, but then we're going to transition to the And you got to watch the Daredevil show to get the Spider-Man movie because I feel like that's kind of what people started to get tired of initially with stuff like The Marvels or stuff like Dr. Strange, too. And I would want them to craft a story that involves those characters that specifically for the movie. But the way the show is going, I don't know how that is possible. Did I ever tell you how I would adapt Batman Year 1? No. I would make it solely from Gordon's perspective. because it's early years Gordon

Starting point is 00:41:10 and I would like this would never ever happen this is my little semi artsy take of a Batman adaptation from Gordon's perspective Batman would appear in it but you never show a scene from Bruce Wayne or Batman's perspective

Starting point is 00:41:30 so when Bruce Wayne's there it's only from Gordon's perspective like the audience knows Bruce Wayne and Batman are the same but we never break that perspective to show like a scene with Bruce Wayne you know

Starting point is 00:41:43 when Gordon's not around or Batman when Gordon's not around always see it from Gordon's perspective that's cool that's how I would do Daredevil in the Spider-Man movie so you don't have to worry about any of that

Starting point is 00:41:53 is you just have like because he doesn't need to know that Matt Murdoch and Daredevil are the same person he doesn't need to know Matt Murdoch you could just have the Daredevil character be in there and interact with him and even sometimes even interacts

Starting point is 00:42:06 with Matt Murdoch but he never has to learn they're the same person. Right. The conflicts don't have to interact. I think that's more some of my worry with, including someone like Fisk within a Spider-Man movie because of the whole stuff with the mayor and registration act,

Starting point is 00:42:17 I feel like that's something that should be resolved within the narrative of Daredevil. And I imagine if they were to put Wilson Fisk in a Spider-Man movie, that's something they would have to address within the film itself. Well, I do think we have to get Wilson Fisk and Spider-Man, though, at some point. I want it so bad. Because he's Kingpin. He's Kingpin is more than his Daredevil's villain. And how many seasons can we get of Matt being like, freaking kingpin?

Starting point is 00:42:40 So it runs a really big redundancy point at a certain spot when you're four seasons in. And three of those four seasons are, oh, kingpin, you know. The only, okay, I'm just thinking this on the spot. The only way I could think of that even being possible, right, is if for some reason the Wilson Fiske Registration Act thing becomes a bigger issue, right? It extends beyond just Daredevil's narrative. Maybe it extends into other Disney Plus ground level street level shows. We do that. And then we do a film Defenders movie resolving that issue with these other street level heroes, including Spider-Man.

Starting point is 00:43:18 Yeah, I think there's avenues. I feel like they, I think it's a must. That is that I'm just saying that with Kingpin, I would hate if he is just solely reserved for the TV side. And primarily just the Daredevil show. Let's make Fisk president. Well, I think Fisk, Kingpin is just such, I grew up mainly knowing him. And I think most people did who just mainly consume media and not comics at the time. Kingpin is a Spider-Man villain.

Starting point is 00:43:50 Yeah, he's in the 90s show, prominent part of that show. It's the game, too. Like, it's the game, the game kicked off with him in there. With the fight scene with him, yeah. Yeah, so I do think it's a necessary thing. Into the Spider-Verse Kingpin is the main villain in that. You know, so I think they are going to rob themselves of something if you can't have Kingpin be a main villain in the Spider-Man world at some point. Yeah, I'm just so curious about how they go about it, just with the nature of what's going on in the show right now.

Starting point is 00:44:22 Sure. If they're able to find a way to resolve the stuff that's currently going on with Fisk, move on to a different villain, so that's Daredevil's primary focus, and then reintroduce him in a Spider-Man movie, I think that's something that feels more plausible to me. introducing him within the same conflict that seems like it will be going on for at least another couple of seasons. I can't have having a hard time imagining them having some sort of intersection within this Mayor Fisk registration acts sort of plot. Would you, would you want that to be something addressed in the film? The registration act? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it has to have an effect. I feel like the Socovia courts didn't really have much of an effect outside of the one movie. We were watching your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man and they had this

Starting point is 00:45:02 one, if you haven't seen it, shame on you guys. but in you really read Spider-Man. There's a caveat from a special character who is working with Thunderbolt Ross via the Socovia Accords. And I was like, oh yeah, that's supposed to be a thing that occurred. And it's not really present in the movies. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:21 And it wasn't really present for the main characters involved in Captain America's Civil War after Captain America. The whole movie of Civil War is about like, do we or do we not abide by this? And that becomes the Civil War. the registration act is something that can have a massive profound effect for a lot of the characters in new york city so for the characters who are based in new york spider man is one it's kind of weird if they don't address that if they don't deal with it so how would you feel if we watch this season of daredevil right addressing this and then they resolve the registration act within the spider man movie uh i don't think they have to resolve it but it could be a part of the story oh you don't think he'd be the main antagonist i don't think it has to be the conclusion uh to the registration act okay yeah but i think it could be part of the world okay i'm i'm curious as to how they would do that but i'm not opposed to it i'm having a hard time seeing it but if they're found a way to make it work that's narratively satisfying and satisfying your spider right as a character i'm i think it could work yeah i think what we just want is like

Starting point is 00:46:25 a really good compelling movie that is intense and fun at the same time yeah like what was We want the emotion back. That's what we want, is the emotional, like, grip. Like, I think No Way Home really shifts into a high gear once the Spidey Sense kicks in when he's in the room with the six, you know, and then leading to that at-M-A scene. So, yeah, I think that's a good one. What else is on here? All right, big one. We're a big one here.

Starting point is 00:46:51 Let's have a really long one. I really just want, I was Cab's, Casper 420. I really just want it to be more of a home-turf story conflict for Spidey. Yes. incorporate more of his villains and other aspects of his character saving just new york i know the avengers thunderbolts and multiverse will still have a presence but i hope they distance them that enough to give us a good spider man movie a movie that if you didn't see the last decade of movies you won't be confused from a few easter eggs yeah it's a very good summation of a lot of

Starting point is 00:47:18 what we've been talking about yes i appreciate you and i agree with you whoever wrote that comment yeah i would i would like it if we use spider man four as like a soft reboot into this new era of Spider-Man. They, like, softly acknowledge it, kind of like how born-again is softly acknowledging the things that happened in the previous show. But yeah, let's set this as a new beginning for Spider-Man. Okay, okay, okay. DMF boss, counter to all this. I know people don't want it to be a multiversal film, but I feel like if they go that route, having her play Mayday, would be

Starting point is 00:47:57 interesting, her and Tom could have a cool dynamic, would both be and young spider people trying to make it on their own and it could act as a great setup for potential father-daughter team up in secret wars with Toby McGuire. You see again then it's a commercial for secret wars at that point. I don't want commercials and want movies, y'all.

Starting point is 00:48:16 I do. I like when people hold a can of Coke. I like when Kylie Jenner separating our crowds. How else do I know what to buy? Yeah, man. Why do you think I own so many outies because of Iron Man? he's the spokesman for it oh who is this i don't actually don't this character's not coming in mind there's a couple of few upvotes on this nike joy 12 says they have the funniest opportunity

Starting point is 00:48:43 to make her screwball and piss everyone off i was going to highlight that comment if you didn't that's great so so screwball was uh remember did you play the d lc of spider man i do not oh okay so she's like a she's another character within the spider within the marvel universe I don't know if she's specifically Spider-Man. But, yeah, in that game, she had, like, a real, like, reality show, and she's, like, making Spider-Man play these games. Oh, wait, yeah, I just looked up her photo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I know this character.

Starting point is 00:49:10 And that could be funny. That could be fun. I actually could see Sadie Singh pulling off this character. That would be fun. She would be able to pull that character off. I don't know about a co-lead, granted me if they find a way to make it compelling. Sure. As long as you're doing a story that is both compelling from a narrative point of view

Starting point is 00:49:28 and a character point of view, I'm all for it. As long as it's serving the characters, that's all that really matters at the end of the day. And if you follow up on the stakes that you set up or establish at the end of your last film, that's also what I care about. Yeah. Let's build. Let's make building blocks here, guys. All right.

Starting point is 00:49:47 Okay. Okay. Maybe she'll play the real MJ. They have a real MJ. Get over it, guys. She's just not a white redhead. That's it. Did you hear about Denzo Washington being rumored to play Magneto?

Starting point is 00:50:02 We're moving on. What do you guys want for the Spider-Rat story? That was fun. Never done like a, I mean, even with the ones you show. My God, I almost broke. Real quick, shouts out to the person who said Squirrel Girl as well. Oh, Squirrel God. I didn't miss that.

Starting point is 00:50:20 I was scrolling fast. Who said that? That would be neighbor, N-E-I-B-U-R. Squirrel Girl will be a fun one. I'm weirdly okay with Squirrel Girl. much or not be anyone significant but yeah

Starting point is 00:50:34 I love the talk that was a fun talk what do you guys want for Spider-Man for I think it's different like a different kind of conversation we're having now whereas like no way home

Starting point is 00:50:44 was who's gonna be in this who sounds like the world is gonna appear in this oh my God Toby McGuire and Andrew Garb like that was a big part of it the crazy theories and and now

Starting point is 00:50:55 there's a lot of the audience then we're I think we are we are part of that audience. It's like, let's just focus it. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. It's all and really grounded and do that. And it's weird because leading into No Way Home, it was like, yeah, oh, what if they do that?

Starting point is 00:51:13 It was exciting and cool and then they did it. And if you did bring, I don't think they should bring back Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield, especially in part four. No. That's the last thing I think you should do. Secret Wars, I'm all for it. That sounds like a crazy Easter egg. time and I'm all for it but it would immediately lessen the effect it happens with any franchise when they you dilute the experience and the impact you want and you you lose the

Starting point is 00:51:41 specialty if you immediately bring back those two guys it ruins it's like the fast movies of everyone's resurrected and it's like Jesus I stopped taking the fast movie seriously probably around like seven I didn't take him serious after after we get like six I'm like okay This is like a live-action cartoon, so why not? I think the Spider-Man movies and the fast movies are very much on the same level. They are, yeah. All about family, both of them. Reject Nation, I currently am on a very specific macro plan.

Starting point is 00:52:13 Calories, fat, carbs, protein, you know the goods. And what's very fortunate for me, some of the brands that we have partnered with recently are products that I've already been using. So throughout this journey, I want to keep you guys updated on my health and fitness goals. January 25th, that was 218 pounds. At the time of filming this one, just under 198. A little lighter than the last time I mentioned today's sponsor, Hewle, baby, that's right. I already had it already tore it open because I just had one earlier today.

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Starting point is 00:54:00 I am conflicted with that question, because... Because he's going to be in Black Panther 3, and he's definitely not Magneto in Black Panther 3. He's Denzel and you do anything. You can do any and every role. I don't believe they would do that. Make Magneto like an African character. Why not? Because I don't know.

Starting point is 00:54:25 feel like it's tough right because I feel like Magneto is a holocaust survivor he's firmly a Jewish character so for them to do that would feel I feel like disrespectful to people that really latch on to that character in his heritage but also he's so good so there's tough there's black Jewish people I in the Holocaust I have no idea I don't I don't know. I generally don't know. I'm not informed enough to say there's black Holocaust survivors. I don't think so, though. I'm going to go on a limb and say probably not. But I will gladly be wrong. It's also a world full of mutants and crazy. You don't need to be 100% historically accurate. And for, I mean, if it's one of those things where it's like you've cast any black person in that role, right? It's going to create a storm. It'd be just, no pun intended. It's going to create like, oh my god race swapping and never i think with denzil you would definitely get some of that i feel like i feel like it would be a lot less because people just love denzel Washington and

Starting point is 00:55:35 they know how incredible about a tour that man is yeah um and for x-men being such a strong allegory for race it would be an interesting thing to do a race swapping type of situation for magneto i could see a positive with the conversation of how like if there's any time to do some type of controversial conversation casting thing, X-Men is one where I feel like it's kind of appropriate to give it a shot because of what the themes of X-Men deal with. I don't think they should do that with every character. But yeah, and I also, I'll also say this, I don't believe it at all, he's going to be playing Magneto.

Starting point is 00:56:12 I don't know why people are really so little like I don't want to buy that for one second. Yeah, because one, he's already in Black Panther, three, and two, I believe, if I remember correctly, he said he was going to stop acting after Black Panther. for three and you don't cast a magneto to just put him in one movie you want him for the franchise i think i was there like a miss under they brought him back i remember he said he's retiring and then he like said something else following that but he is like 70 something he just looks like 40 he like it looks great you know he's 70 years old and he's still doing the equalizer that's wild man he's great he's doing a four and five jesus yeah good for him i mean he's like in great

Starting point is 00:56:51 shape. Yeah. I think Denzel's an incredibly inspiring guy. I love listening to his interviews. I love listening to the speeches he gives. He's got a lot of wisdom. I love when he admits it's like early lessons of failures in his life and listening about the hardships he's gone through. I find him to be one of the most inspiring. And there's like sometimes people will dumb down like when actors want to give life advice. There's there's parts like I love listening to Matthew McConaughey and I'm starting to see there's like backlash of this side of Matthew McConaughey like he wants to have his own cult or something like I don't know I think he just wants to be like a good person and spread some wisdom to the world and share and inspire yeah nothing wrong with that

Starting point is 00:57:32 um I don't feel like he's starting a Matthew McConaughey church unless he's got some other agenda I don't know about I think Denzel whenever I listen to him speak it sounds very sincere I love his uh I love his non complexity to his advice too I think he's a very straightforward person when it comes to the advice. Even if he talks for a long time, it's very direct. There's like no bullshit type of mentality. And beyond that,

Starting point is 00:57:58 you can see he lives every bit of advice that he is giving in any of these interviews. I think he'd be, for that reason, I'm like, he'd be a good professor X to me because of who Denzel is in like the interviews and stuff

Starting point is 00:58:11 that at least know him to be. So yeah, I think I love Denzel, the man who is on videos since I don't know in real life, but I don't know in interviews and stuff. Yeah, it would be funny. I had a quote for you from him if it's of relevance. Yeah, he basically said that, yeah, for me, it's about the filmmaker,

Starting point is 00:58:30 especially at this point in my career. I'm only interested in working with the best. I don't know how many more films I'm going to make. Probably not that many. I want to do things I haven't done. And then went on to say after that, after Black Panther 3, I'm going to retire. Then he clarified, I didn't say I was going to go into retirement. I said it has to be at a level of interest to me.

Starting point is 00:58:48 I'm more interested in getting behind the camera, so that's about five years out. It's very difficult, and I may have used the word retire, but I look at life in three sections. You learn, you earn, and you return. I'm in the return part of my life. Yeah, I'm not retired. You learn, and you return. And also there are black Holocaust survivors.

Starting point is 00:59:06 Thank you for clarifying. Hans Massacqua and Theodore Michael are notable examples. Okay. Wait, did you just look that up, or you knew that already? I looked that up. I did not know that. Okay. who thank you for clarifying that in the show um i think it would be funny or not funny i think

Starting point is 00:59:22 it would be interesting having malcolm x the guy played malcolm x play magnito i think that'll be interesting um but there's a bad guy and glad eight or two as well and yeah wait why were you saying it because i don't really view magnino as a bad guy i don't think uh no i think macs is also not a bad guy but if we're looking at the oh i thought you were saying malcolm x because he's not a bad guy for some race i don't know no no because so during the civil rights yeah in the civil rights movement you know you can make the allegory or the comparison that malcolm x is magnito and martin luther king is professor x and because they're both on on opposite sides or seemingly opposite sides that's true actually yeah that's cool yeah they're both guys who want prosperity for their people but

Starting point is 01:00:06 went about in two different ways granted malcolm x kind of changed his views later on in life because what he was believing was kind of was a lie. But ultimately, two guys having a different approach about the same sort of issue. Now, kind of build off of what you were saying with the thing about his integrity in his, his uncomplicated way of saying the truth. I think that's very true. I think he's a very inspiring individual. I think he's lived his life with a lot of integrity, with a lot of truth and a lot of backing up of what he's saying.

Starting point is 01:00:37 I feel like he's someone who's earned that ethos. And that's even reflected within his career, his career choices, the fact that he doesn't do things that he doesn't believe in, that he is very selective about the projects that he chooses. That's why I think he had an opportunity to do a movie early on in his career that would have paid him a decent amount and he turned it down because he didn't like the script. And ultimately, him choosing projects that served him and that were authentic to not only who he was, his interest in the material, but also. Also, things that just seemed enriching, that only propelled him and built up his career because he only had a track record of doing things of quality. And having a sense of integrity, having a sense of a strong compass presents you with opportunities. Even if the immediate choice, the candy is right in front of you, it gives you, you having that internal knowledge to not pick that allows you prosperity. within your career or anything in life in the future well damn yeah that's beautiful that's

Starting point is 01:01:47 really beautiful yeah which if there were i'm really not opposed to magnito or professor act i mean it's like i think that's the thing right it's like minito was the the historical side of magnito that's you're so associated like the as a as a jewish man but you don't associate him as like a black jewish man right i i do if there was a black actor to play play Magneto. Can you think of another black actor in general? Are there any of the black actors out there? What would I want for Black Nito?

Starting point is 01:02:17 Let's see. Black Nito. Hashtag, Black Nito. Black Nito. First one comes to my mind, Sterlingay Brown. I think he would kill it as Magneto. I feel like he just has that intensity, that presence. I feel like he's able to... He's a great actor with his eyes.

Starting point is 01:02:33 He has a sense of showing vulnerability, but also an intensity with this performance. He's a very, a strong sense of stillness, a powerful within his stillness, whenever he's acting in another scene with a partner. Also, his ability to be like a representation of, you know, hypermasculinity and vulnerability and have those two things kind of intersect in a way that feels authentic and powerful. I feel like that's something that would serve a character like Magneto well if they were to cast a black actor as Magneto. He's in Black Panther, isn't he? He is, but he's in, like, one scene in the 90s. They can, you know, it's not the first time we've seen an actor play multiple roles in the MCU.

Starting point is 01:03:15 We got the girl from Internals. Yeah, isn't there like a Doctor Doom actor coming out? There's no pussybird for this. Yeah, all right, well, would you guys want Denzel to play Magneto? Let us know, let us know. If not, what other black cats? Courtney B. Vance, I think, would be a quote one. Okay.

Starting point is 01:03:34 Yeah. All right. I'm only really familiar with Courtney B-Ban. I feel like there's, like, other things I'm just going to remember him, but, like, People v. O.J. I think he would be a really good one. Isn't he in a little one stitch? Yes, he is. He's in the Disney umbrella.

Starting point is 01:03:45 Did you watch that trailer? No, I haven't. It's weird. I had that thought today of, like, there's so many trailers that have come out that we haven't covered. And it's just weird to, like, how this channel first blew up from trailer reactions. And now there's so many we just don't do, and it makes the movie reactions and show reactions better. Like, I haven't seen the last of a season two trailer at all. Oh, really?

Starting point is 01:04:06 I haven't even, like, maybe seen, like, an image or two that have, like, popped up from it because apparently it's, like, the biggest trailer in the world. I haven't seen the trailer, though, and I'm really happy I haven't. I'm very, very excited to just go into this show, not having, like, any real idea of what the adaptation is going to be. That's great. It's a weird feeling watching the trailer because I know what happened in the game, but seeing them recreate certain scenes that it seemed like the shot for shot is really cool.

Starting point is 01:04:33 But I imagine you're going to get that much more out of it because you're playing Last of Us 2 right now. Well, yeah, my method is different than what we did for first season. We did last of us season. I played Last of Us 1 and 2. And then I immediately watched the show with Andrew. This time around, I'm not replaying Last of Us 1. Instead, I'm just playing Last of Us 2. It's the first time I'm doing this.

Starting point is 01:04:58 This is like the fourth, third or fourth time I'm playing it. Oh, really? But I've unlocked like the game, but it's why that much I forget? Oh, but I, because there's so limited time. I literally have like a timer which like, okay, it's 1 a.m. I said it's in 45 minutes. So I've played 45 minute chunks like super late at night because we're going to do the gamer knowledge react one. So it's like one of the times like, oh, God, I got to really know what I'm talking about it.

Starting point is 01:05:24 So. Do you take notes while you're playing? No, no, but it's the first time I'm doing it where all this stuff we were able to unlock from beating it with like the weapons and the infinite ammo and stuff oh game plus yeah i'm like screw it i'm gonna it's the first time doing modifiers to get through it and it does dilute the experience like the the horror and the fear is such a part of the game and the earning when you do something like there's levels i've done and i i'm still doing just because i'm like i'm so that's such a long game and i'm like this show's coming out really soon i got to just go through this right now

Starting point is 01:06:00 because I did stop. I took it off that. So I changed it to hard because I already have a hard time when it's not normal with none of the modifiers. So I changed it to hard with the modifiers. It's still like, it's like it's still easier than playing on normal because there's like the infinite ammo. Okay. There's not even put infinite on everything to make it a little challenging. So you're good at this game.

Starting point is 01:06:25 I'm really good at the game. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really good at the game. Are you not? I'm okay. Yeah. So I feel it's funny because I play, I'm doing, I guess, the reverse of what you did last time. So because I've been played Las Vegas 1 or 2 since 2020.

Starting point is 01:06:41 So I'm playing them both for the first time in five years. Oh, nice. So I'm playing Last of Us 1 and then I'm going to go into 2 and then I'm going to rewatch season 1 and then do our reaction. Nice. Now, I think I'm about halfway through Last 1 right now, but I'm playing it on easy mode without the modifications. And it's a little too easy because. I'm easy. But I was like, oh.

Starting point is 01:07:02 I play it on easy in the game seats. I don't understand. I didn't think so. I was like, oh, I, I, but I'm playing on easy to get through it because I just want to experience the story. Right. But, but that's what it dawned on me. That part of the experience of the story is experiencing the difficulty.

Starting point is 01:07:19 Yes. And I'm like, oh, shit, I'm kind of robbing myself with something, but I really got to get through this story right now because there's some limited time. Yeah, but it is robbing me as some of the experience because I remember, like, I remember like the um certain scenes like the sniper scene like in in number one i thought the show adapt totally weakened i was really disappointed in the show when they when they did that really yeah because it's like i think the show where they've failed is they miss out on a lot of the tension of the action only the second episode really had that there's the one episode and the one

Starting point is 01:07:49 with the sniper the fifth episode where there's the crazy hoard uh that they included sure cool um that's kind of in the game but i think like the action like the action with like the sneaking around, the tension of the sneaking around and trying to shiv someone, kill someone, choke them out, having to reload in the middle of a battle. Like, there's a lot that they, and then in the sniper one, he just like, that's a hard part in the game where you have to get to the house. Yeah, I just take down the sniper. But then in the show, he just like goes around him and walks up the stairs. Like, okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting kind of, because I haven't seen the show in two years.

Starting point is 01:08:27 So, like, I'm remembering what that was like as I'm watching it. And, yeah, there is a level of tension and things I had to readjust to adapt. And I'm like, okay, I can see how narratively they would move things around to, like, I guess, make it feel not less episodic, but to put the focus more on character than the tension of the circumstances that they're in, which is still there, but it's definitely lessened, right? So, yeah, it's, it is interesting. And it is easier because it does take away some of that thing that we both enjoy from the game. when you're playing it on a difficulty that's lesser. Absolutely. Yes.

Starting point is 01:09:02 Yes, it does. We knocked out another story that wasn't planned. Craig and Aaron's revisiting the last. Okay. Last one that, you know, like I feel like there's been so many different variations of this conversation that have taken place a lot already about the Superman thing that have been kind of obvious. but just some poll quotes about it is David Zoslav reportedly leaning to make co-CEO of DC studios Peter Safran the new head of Warner Brothers

Starting point is 01:09:37 that's a big rumor a new leadership search but a big the main thing that's going around right now is how critical Superman is to the WB that there's a genuine fear about the fate of the studio the whole studio oh just that's what you see Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like, to me, I was going, this could end or make or break the DC universe bottom line.

Starting point is 01:10:01 Like, if it doesn't pan out, this essentially affects like everything and then Supergirl would have a big problem, right? Because they're already shooting that and lanterns as well. David Zazlav bet big that they can show the world that the DC IP can have real value. They have a tremendous amount writing on it. And the other main thing going around from DC film. news directly. Superman is almost incalculable importance. Encalculable importance to Warner Brothers Discovery, and there's reportedly genuine fear of the film studio going the way of Fox, which was acquired by Disney.

Starting point is 01:10:40 An essential, as a quote, an essential FMOWB veteran, an essential element of the stock price is believing that the IP of D.C. is meaningful. Zoslav, that they can show the world that the DC IP can have real value. Superman is the first movie. This will set the tone. They have a tremendous amount writing on it. Yeah, it's a scary time for Warner Brothers. It's weird because they had like Barbie, which was a global phenomenon. But they've definitely had struggles

Starting point is 01:11:06 with a lot of other movies. Like, they just had Mickey 17 come out and the movie like bombed, right? Did it really? It isn't like a terrible bomb. John? John, I said something and you're supposed to be my human AI. I believe it made 40 minutes.

Starting point is 01:11:24 million dollars odd on its opening weekend and yes it was uh 40 45 million global box office and uh 120 million dollar productions so in in its opening weekend you would imagine that you know around the world it'll probably do okayish but yeah it's not what they at home and the generality don't like batman yeah that's what it is they don't like 17 batman uh the general generality is you you uh double the production budget to account for marketing. And this movie was a market to do, like, the amount of pop of Isaiah Pattinson and Bong Joon on interviews and such and trailers. Like, they really push this one.

Starting point is 01:12:08 And the reception doesn't feel, like, overwhelmingly positive, like, glowing. Really? It's positive. It's positive. I don't want to sound like I'm being, like, talking down the film because it's still fresh on both sides of the, of the, aisle here, but it doesn't feel like glowing in the way a movie like that

Starting point is 01:12:30 ought to be. So they just had a flop there. Companion, I think was Warner Brothers. I liked Companion. I loved Companion. That was really good. But it wasn't a huge film. I feel like that has the ability. It definitely underperformed too, even for a low-budget horror

Starting point is 01:12:46 movie. But it yeah, it's like it's a Warner Brothers movie. So with Superman being the thing, I hope it does well, even if it's not, like, critically, like, yes, I want a great film. Of course, I want a great film. I want it. That is so important for, like, I think that's where the MCU, it's weird.

Starting point is 01:13:06 Where the MCUs at is, like, you're still making some money, but what you really need is, like, a great, great movies back to back right now and great shows back to back to turn around the reputation of qualitative product because opening box office is just not cutting it anymore. right like or or first two weeks of box office is just not cutting anymore it's like the way how coin i talked about when we said captain america brave new world reactions are not great of course we got backlash for saying that and we said it like here's what happens this movie does well opening weekend sweet and then people try to like overhype that i even think mickey 17 was doing that i think they said like number one movie across the globe i'm like yes it's an you can spin narratives if you're you're technically not wrong you're not lying there's more to the conversation. There's more to the narrative here than you

Starting point is 01:13:55 are letting on right now. Right. You're simplifying it. And Brave New World is not like a banger of a box office success. Like I think it broke even. Maybe, maybe not. But my point is like, that's my point. If it was if it had a more positive reception

Starting point is 01:14:12 overall, instead of the divide that it had, then its legs would last longer. Right. So that's what I think where the MCUs at. Superman, they are really just, we need a financial hit like we need a big financial hit yes reputation all that obviously really important you need the snowball effect you need people to be hype for the future of dc based off of the positive reception of their superman movie undoubtedly um but in my mind i'm like hey guys even if it's not

Starting point is 01:14:42 getting good word of mouth watch it because there's a lot of other cool things that are coming out that we would love to see you know i feel like it's gonna i feel like it's gonna be great i feel like it's going to do well and I feel like it's going to be great. I have the utmost confidence and sorry to cut you off. I want you just talk. Sorry. I was on rolling. No, I know. We're both excited. I think that there's a lot writing on this movie, yes, but it also has what? If I remember correctly, it's the seventh highest watch trailer in the world right now. Oh. Yeah, like breaking all, all those records and whatnot. So I feel like that hype already is going to garner its financial success, which is going to speak to prosperity for the rest of the DC universe.

Starting point is 01:15:25 And it's a potential future because if it's not, we know David Zazlap isn't afraid to just cut movies from its legs. Quick sidebar. Did you know there's a Looney Tunes movie coming out this month in theaters? Yeah, I did hear about that. And part of me was going like, did you want this to fail so you can be like, see? I was like, why did I just hear about this? That's insane.

Starting point is 01:15:47 I'm like, no, I know. I just heard about it too. like, oh, there's a movie out? I was right now years old when I found this house. The day the earth blew up, a Looney Tunes movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like a few weeks. I was like, why are they not promoting this?

Starting point is 01:16:01 It's like their baby. Someone was seen protesting outside of the WB lot in a Wiley Coyote costume, like, to release me. That's what I mean. There was a part of me I was going like, did you intentionally not promote this just so you could be like, see, that's why we do it. Right. Because look, it fails. No one cares. It's so weird.

Starting point is 01:16:19 But to get back to the topic at hand. Yeah, I think there's a lot of hype for Superman. I think that it's not only is it really hyped, but I feel like there's a lot of love put behind the movie as well. And the marketing is indicative of that as well. I don't think we've ever seen a DC movie marketed the same way that this movie is being marketed. Also put James Gunn in the face of those marketing is also very interesting. Did you see the one with Shaq, David Cornswet, and James Gunn, all in the same thing advertising Superman?

Starting point is 01:16:51 Why is Shaq in there? Exactly. I don't know. I think it was like a hybrid with the NBA to get people of that audience. Because he played steel. Because he played steel, there we go. Yeah, that's probably the connection there. Yeah, because steel is a cold classic.

Starting point is 01:17:06 Everybody loves steel. Everybody knows still. Totally have seen that movie. But I think that is something that's really we have to take into consideration, the fact that they're advertising this in a different way. Also, crypto was being advertised at the puppy bowl during the story. Super Bowl. So I feel like they're getting this larger love from these different areas that DC has not normally been associated with within the past 10 years because they've largely marketed themselves as something extremely serious. And this is taking a different approach to

Starting point is 01:17:37 be something that's more fun. That is more hopeful. That is more just classic superhero. And I think that's something that's really going to do DC well in the long run. But we're at an unprecedented point in history with the comic book genre in general, with that being such a thing that we're putting a lot of stock in to hold the hope of the future of the DC universe

Starting point is 01:18:02 but also Fantastic Four at the same time because the Fantastic Four fails. Marvel's really writing on that because Kevin Feigy last year was like I know that there's Fantastic Four and Thunderbolt's coming out but the thing I'm excited for is Fantastic Four. I'm like damn I guess screw those other movies because we're like three

Starting point is 01:18:18 four properties ahead and you're talking about that one. And clearly from the trailer, and then obviously, what they've done at Comic-Con, there's a lot of love there. But there was a lot writing on those things because both of those themes, both of those things seem like they're going to be the flagship for those individual companies going forward. So I think that, yeah, they're coming up within a month of each other or within a few weeks of each other. So I think that's something interesting to take a look at. And I'm like, I don't think anyone's really talking about that. Or maybe they are. I'm just not paying attention.

Starting point is 01:18:46 But, yeah, I think that's something that has me curious to see which one's going to be. going to be more financially profitable and which one's going to be I guess just a better movie i think it feeds each other we were talking about the thing of well i'm not going to go into it now but we were talking about the thing of infinite game and finite game and i'm like they're both an infinite game territory um so i think one helps the other i think they they both that's the that's what i love this is the drama that i love because to me i'm like this is compelling movie news drama of me of everything is writing on Superman for the fate of WB, but also the comic book genre world as well.

Starting point is 01:19:25 Like, what I think would happen, worst case is comic book genre would probably die down for a while if these, like, failed, you know? I think it would die down, but I don't feel like it's, you know, dusted. I don't think it's permanent. I think eventually it would come back, the way how a Superman movie eventually comes back, a way a Batman movie eventually comes back, eventually. would come back. But that's why I love it because of how much is writing on this. And just think about that narrative when the movie does come out and it succeeds of like how much Superman.

Starting point is 01:19:58 And the fact that it's Superman, the symbol of hope. And all the hope is being placed on the character who is the symbol of hope. Yeah. Saving the comic book industry. Superman was the first big like IP adaptation in cinematic history for comic books right with christopher reeve i don't know the impact of the show with george but it's who christopher reeve right so the full circle momentum of this i love that narrative of like hearing like oh man here's everything that's at stake what was suerenians and it does it and it helps save part of the industry part of the of this one genre i think that's really cool this is the kind of drama that i love so i really hope that it actually does succeed because i love the idea that the hope the character symbolizes hope

Starting point is 01:20:46 delivered on it yeah it's poetic in that way yeah because he is the thing that we're writing on the the the thing to to strive for and hopefully the outside success and the the feeling the movie leaves you with is both that as well yeah um so yeah i i am i'm curious and i'm excited to see how that all come to fruition and i'm all it's also just it outside of that just the fact that it's James Gunn doing it sure and it's it's so crazy to think about like have you seen the movie Super a long time like around

Starting point is 01:21:19 the time it came out oh it's so good I just I watched it recently for um over the holidays you know we have a reaction channel and uh I've seen it in the past but I forgot but I forgot about it yeah but I think that'd be a great reaction for people to do

Starting point is 01:21:34 calling on to Superman um but I totally could have reacted to that It's a little edgy. I'm not going to lie, but it's a fun one. It's definitely a fun movie. I remember one moment only because Roger Ebert spoiled something without spoiling it. It's one of the things is like this close-up on this one person with their head blown. I'm trying not to say it.

Starting point is 01:21:59 And then I was like 20 minutes in a movie. I'm like, well, he was obviously talking about his character then. I put it together. That's the only thing I remember about the movie. I don't remember anything about it. That's a little bit more of the darker James got movie, right? That's a darker film. Yeah, but it's interesting that his first...

Starting point is 01:22:17 John loves that movie. Do you really? It's definitely on his more trauma side of the sensibility. Actually, I have a life memory tied to that movie. But yeah, I liked it a lot at the time. It's been years since I've seen it, and I would love to watch it again. Reaction show. But even on my own time.

Starting point is 01:22:37 Yeah, man. But I think it's watching that movie got me thinking, like, wow, he made that movie, I want to say in 2010. And he wrote that in the early 2000, back when he was still married to Jenna Fisher of the office. And then finally was able to make it. Funny enough, it was actually supposed to be John C. Riley originally playing the role out before it was Rayne Wilson. But watching that movie, that was his first soire into the superhero genre, right? This small independent film that became a cult classic. And then his next movie after that, movie 43.

Starting point is 01:23:08 we don't talk about that, was then Guardians of the Galaxy, which was essentially a big budget indie movie, because mainstream people didn't really know who Guardians of the Galaxy were, right? And then that became a big success. And then he came into D.C., took the suicide squad a failed property, and then prior to that, not as, like, lesser known, but still, like, not mainstream.

Starting point is 01:23:30 And then make that a big success. And now Superman, the ultimate test of the granddaddy of superheroes he's put not only as the writer and director, but the head of the studio to cement his legacy as a superhero filmmaker to like to be in this ultimate position. So like from super to Superman, I think that's just a crazy trajectory

Starting point is 01:23:53 and like an interesting journey of his trials and tribulations to make it to like the pinnacle. Yeah. That's the, no, you're 100% right. And it is a, like I know a lot of people are very, anti-James Gunn because of the internet. Oh, the internet. But I love what James Gun does.

Starting point is 01:24:13 And like there's that, there's that part where I hope this works out for him. Yeah, man. Because DC struggles. DC's at such a hard time as well. So so much is writing on this. And I can't imagine being in his position where he has to be a creative and just be like, I got to put all this noise out because I am not only working on this really important movie, but I'm also having to produce and oversee a lot of other movies and shows right now.

Starting point is 01:24:40 So, yeah, I'm excited, man. I'm excited. I feel like I like this trauma because I like that people pay attention, and I love that in the future we can say, like, they did it. And that helps create impact. And impact is what I feel like movies could do. So this is the movie news narrative side that I'm really excited about. But anyway, that's it for today, guys. We're done.

Starting point is 01:25:02 We did it. We're done. We talked a lot longer than we planned. on doing which is a good thing that's a good sign that means um you did good today coy black coi hashtag black coy get your black coy t-shirts I have one correction for you at the at the tail end here Mickey 17 pulled in 53 million for its opening weekend globally but it needs to make uh like 250 to 300 million to really start profiting so okay I don't think it's going to do that I hope it does

Starting point is 01:25:33 I'm rooting for Robert Pattinson I'm worried for Warner Brothers To have financial success They have F1 coming out And I think that'll be a huge for them Hopefully It's top gun on the streets

Starting point is 01:25:45 Just make Barbie too They are Are they really Why wouldn't they It's Barbie Possibilities are endless Is Greta Gretta Gourble is coming back for that? They should just like

Starting point is 01:25:57 undo it a little bit I think they should do a sequel That is an insult To the people who love the first one Yeah antithesis everything they try to make it a musical barbie fully a ken yeah yeah fully again i really didn't like that movie that was one movie that the more i thought about it the less i enjoy it like i like it just never grew on me it's not the same way too i'm like yeah like i watched like a

Starting point is 01:26:24 good think piece on it the other day of uh i'm like it did start a conversation but i don't feel like it started a conversation for the right reasons honestly. If it wasn't a musical and they committed to the courtroom stuff, I think it could have been a lot better. Yeah, that's for another time. Yeah. When the Joker 3 comes up. Yep. All right, guys. Did you check out Lady Gaga's

Starting point is 01:26:45 new album? It's pretty good. I liked it a lot. Would you guys think of Aaron being here? Leave your thoughts down below. All right. There's no real ending or beginning to these. It's your moment of suspense. Thanks, Aaron. Bye, bye, guys. Thanks, John, for being John.

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