The Reel Rejects - SUPERMAN SPOILER TALK!! Post-Credits, Ending Explained & DCU Future (James Gunn Breakdown)

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

DEEP DIVE INTO JAMES GUNN'S SUPERMAN 2025!! Spoiler review unpacking the ending, post-credits scene, Bradley Cooper Jor-El Twist, and massive DCU future setups. Is this the reboot DC needed? Become A Righteous Reject By Grabbing One Of Our Superman Inspired Apparel: https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Superman Biggest Cameos & Surprises:    • SUPERMAN 2025 | The Major Cameos & Surpris...   Superman Out Of Theater Reaction (Movie Review)    • Just Watched SUPERMAN & Still So Emotional...   Ranking The Supermen:    • Superman Actors RANKED! Who’s the Best Man...   Superman Deep Dive Spoiler Review – Characters, Cameos, Justice Gang & DCU Setup! Join Greg Alba, Coy Jandreau (DC Studios), & John Humphrey as we unpack every twist in James Gunn’s Superman, breaking down the plot beats from the Hammer of Boravia to Superman’s defeat and redemption, the pocket‑dimension showdown with Metamorpho, the kaiju battle, Krypto’s rescue scene, the Supergirl ending cameo, Peacemaker nod, the freeway sighting of Gotham hinting at Batman, Maxwell Lord’s Justice Gang reveal (Green Lantern Guy Gardner [Nathan Fillion], Hawkgirl [Isabela Merced], Mister Terrific [Edi Gathegi]) and more. We dive into standout performances by David Corenswet (Kal‑El/Ultraman), Rachel Brosnahan (Lois), Nicholas Hoult (Lex Luthor), Skyler Gisondo (Jimmy Olsen), Sara Sampaio (Eve), Wendell Pierce (Perry White), Anthony Carrigan (Metamorpho), María Gabriela De Faría (The Engineer), and surprise cameos from Milly Alcock (Supergirl) & Sean Gunn (Maxwell Lord). Using insights from New Rockstars, Screen Crush, Heavy Spoilers and others, we break down the Justice Gang’s comic roots, Maxwell Lord's manipulation , Guy Gardner’s bowl‑cut style and live‑action debut and the massive DCU setup for Legion of Super‑Heroes, Supergirl, Peacemaker Season 2, Batman, The Authority, Justice League, Doomsday, Secret Wars, Young Avengers, Spider‑Man: Brand New Day, The Punisher special and beyond. We also discuss critical feedback—from Vanity Fair praising the tone , to darker critiques about overcrowding and celebrate iconic scenes like Krypto flying, the kaiju fight, and the pocket‑dimension rescue. Intense Suspense by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... Support The Channel By Getting Some REEL REJECTS Apparel! https://www.rejectnationshop.com/ Follow Us On Socials:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/  Tik-Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@reelrejects?lang=en Twitter: https://x.com/reelrejects Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ Music Used In Ad:  Hat the Jazz by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Happy Alley by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... POWERED BY @GFUEL Visit https://gfuel.ly/3wD5Ygo and use code REJECTNATION for 20% off select tubs!! Head Editor: https://www.instagram.com/praperhq/?hl=en Co-Editor: Greg Alba Co-Editor: John Humphrey Music In Video: Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Ask Us A QUESTION On CAMEO: https://www.cameo.com/thereelrejects Follow TheReelRejects On FACEBOOK, TWITTER, & INSTAGRAM:  FB:  https://www.facebook.com/TheReelRejects/ INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/reelrejects/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thereelrejects Follow GREG ON INSTAGRAM & TWITTER: INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/thegregalba/ TWITTER:  https://twitter.com/thegregalba Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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you got the moodyest lighting of all bts john has especially built this uh set up for us um this is the red sun setting yeah everything's still just a massive work in progress right now turn it green anytime i want to yeah we're going to be doing um a spoiler talk for superman now we're planning on doing a live stream spoiler talk it's supposed to be at the time of recording this uh coy jondro myself and roxy will be there and john will be uh monitoring off so he'll have a mic though i'll be i'll be in the booth he'll be able to chime in still uh but we wanted to have like a free form open spoiler talk right now and uh i thought this would be great especially because like coy and i we just recorded a bunch of different videos, Superman costume rankings,

ranking the Superman. A future. We talked about the future of like cameos that appear in this movie and like whether it's all setting up. But now we get to dive into the nitty gritty of actual storytelling and emotional impact. We saw this like a week ago. We only saw it once. Yes.

We want to watch it again before we watch the, before we do the live stream of spoiler talk. Yeah, definitely. So let's get these spoilers out of the way, just free flow. We don't have any notes. We don't have any structure. But I'm here to help keep us on track today as best as we can in the limited hour that we have. So, yeah, it won't be a play-by-play, but we'll get specific. Okay.

Rejagnation, let's be real. We cover movies and shows here, but can we really scroll social media these days without seeing people carrying each other apart over the news? It's like everything is so divided. It's so loud. It's so freaking overwhelming. And that's why I'm genuinely grateful for having something like straight arrow news. They become mine and others go to for cutting through the noise. No spin, no hidden agenda, just the facts. Sounds simple, yet too good to be true, but it's real.

Because we live in a world where it often feels like everyone's trying to sell you on a particular side. They help you just focus on the actual story. And what I really appreciate is their medium-miss tool. It shows you the important stories other outlets might actually be skipping. It's like having a second pair of eyes that make sure you're not missing the full picture. And plus, this part's really cool. This app actually lets you compare how both sides of the political spectrum are covering the same story. So you can decide for yourself where you stand, whether you're left or right.

Because in times like this, having something that's honest and balanced really does matter. So you can hit the link in the description box and pin comments or go to SAN.com slash real rejects to download the straight arrow news app today. Once again, SAN.com slash real rejects download the straight arrow news app. today support real journalism and let's stay informed together thank you again s a and for what you do i want to kick us off with this guys because uh i was sitting next to my wife on one side of me yeah we'll each take turns yeah you got your wife you got your feet on it so i'm just gonna give up on the bits over it's over coy uh i was sitting next to olivia on my right and an ane on my left So I wasn't sitting next to you guys

And now I want to ask you both here I feel like this would be an interesting place to start Let's start with you, John, since you've had the least to talk about Of this movie so far What was this first scene that made you cry Or moment that made you cry Because according to both you, you both shed some tears And I want to know where you cried

Oh man I think when Paw Kent is talking to him When he goes home and he really has that talk with Paa That got me and definitely I don't know if this is the first time but the ones that stand out to me the most are that and when he is like losing it

just basically shouting his whole motivation of just I can't verbatim repeat the monologue but yeah just this idea that you're trying so hard to you know live up to these expectations and do the right things and make the right choices

and you know Lex keeps trying to tear him down and to highlight just how different he is from all of us, but really deep down inside when it matters, he's human. And that whole speech about being human and him being just as human as the rest of us really spoke to me. And it scratched that sort of itch that I think, you know, the Zach Snyder movies we're also trying to get at, which is like the alien nature of Superman and his needing to earn his humanity, or at least to constantly prove it. And so the way that, yeah, the catharsis of that scene and the way it just emotionally pours out of him really

impacted me certainly but yeah that was the strongest one for sure I mean I also got misty-eyed during especially when they float up at the end and they're kissing and stuff like you know and too when he's losing it over crypto like there's a lot of stuff like you know like the whole losing it over crypto well you know like when he barges into Lex's office yeah when he's like really losing his cool and you can just tell how how it's like it's kind of humorous, but it's also like touching how important this is to him and how much he is just a boy and his dog in that moment.

The love and care. Yeah, absolutely. Those little human flourishes of the character, I would say, yeah. What about you, Coy? For me, it was it was the paw stuff the most. What's specifically about the Paws stuff? So I come from deep south Virginia and

like growing up near the Mason-Dixon line and like near North Carolina, I always had a sneeze, no. I always had a sense. of wanting to go to the city as a kid before I knew what that meant like I'd watch stuff and like zero through five I lived in Virginia. We then moved to

upstate New York and lived there for three years and then I moved to Boston and Boston was like the big city but for the upstate New York time that's not the city but compared to rural Virginia where they have like a parade when you put a street light in it is. So we were the first generation of my family to like move off the mountain and to like become city folk but it wasn't really the city So when I moved to an actual city, it was really crazy for me, and I had this really shell-shocking experience.

And then I moved to L.A. when I was 21. And it was like the week after my 21st birthday, and I lived on my own, and I did the whole city life. So every time I move, it became like, oh, this is really it. This is really it. And I always kind of, like, looked back at home as different tiers. But I have such comfort on the mountain I was born on and with my grandparents. And my grandparents are closer to most people's parents' age. my parents had me at 16. My grandparents were in their 30. So I'm only 30 years younger than my

grandparents. So Ma and Pa Kent felt like my grandparents. And they felt like home in that rural, deep south way that I really struggled to admit is peace for me. So like I think of home as Boston, but I'm still like me. But when I go to Virginia, like I actually slow down and I actually like the food's different and the environment's different. And you see the stars. And it's a different slow and so when he didn't go to lowest because he needed to be there it felt like when i need like full comfort when i need my mom and dad but i hate them in virginia like when i need my grandparents um so it felt like a homecoming uh and and to have bond pa can't feel authentic to what i see as like farm life like i i grew up effective i had a donkey and there was like a tobacco

farm and like i grew up effectively on a farm and so characterizations are like way more of that than I ever expected. Yeah, because they're farmers. But we don't see it. Like, I, I think that we've had amazing interpretations, but, like, we didn't see a lot of the farm in Christopher Reeve. We didn't see a lot of, like, farm life. We saw moments with, you know, Kevin Costner and Diane Lane, but they're very

Hollywood-looking people. And this felt like they had a camera at a farm, and it was a guy with his parents. Yeah. And so, that was a lot about me, sorry. But, like, when you ask, it's because of my relationship with, Virginia versus the city. And I connect, that's one of the reasons I connect to Clark is his home is Smallville and he lives in Metropolis.

I live in L.A. in Boston. But when I go to see my grandparents, there's that first five years of your life where so many memories and so much of your DNA is that it feels like that for me. Yeah. So I cried deeply. In the movie, it's like they're, the world and a lot of other interpretations often focus on the Cretonian side and they show like at the beginning. the message you relies on is from Joel and Laura and that is how like the world often perceives him is like oh you are the descendants of that that's who you are the child of but when they go to that farm it's interesting because you only get like a scene or two with with mom-pa Kent early on like little tidbits but you don't get like a real like connection moment to way later on but it it actually makes it more impactful it clicks more of like oh you're this is your nerve

This is how you were raised. This is why you are who you are, not some message from your alien parents or your actual biological parents or whatever identity of the world trying to shape you as. This is why you are the way you are is because of these guys. So much of this movie is about the choices that we make, that defined. Any theme with that just got to be really hard. If we're talking about our personal associations, I think early on what guys, Me is the scene when they are talking about, like, the punk rock stuff where Lois is saying, you know, they're riffing about what punk rock is and it's really funny and it's a character inside and a Clark. But when he's essentially saying being kind as punk rock, I feel like my nature is not the actions I have to constantly choose every day. Like, I feel like I'm a good person because I constantly choose against the betterment of the nature that I grew, that I grew up in. The nurturing that I grew up with and the nature I grew up in. And this movie is so much about, like, you are defined by your choices that you actually make. So if mind nurturing in nature, it tells, is usually instinctually to be negative, to be cynical, to look for the bad, to not trust. And to say, like, being, and then people used to identify with being, like, punk rock as, like, the rebellious dark sides.

And then to do the flip of that, of like, that is the way the world is. So if you can be different, punk rock being the cool thing is to be kind now, that's what got me so emotional is because I have to, I feel like I have to work so hard on choosing to have a positive. Like, you guys have seen me. So like, I, yes, I'm on camera a lot and people have like, people sometimes pick up on like, there's a darkness to Greg or there's like a sarcastic asshole side to Greg for sure. Yeah. And, uh, there's a lot of part side. I make a lot of, uh, there's no dark side in this movie. I make a lot of apologies to people around here. And, uh, you know, and, uh, and so. Yeah, like that, that whole scene with Paw Kent, I see why that's a highlight because that's what he's telling him is you are your choices. And that's he's proud of him, you know. It's also a sneaky.

That was a sneaky cry for me. Like, it was like I was watching and I was like, you guys know, I mean, you might know these guys know. I don't cry easily with film. I'm working on it. I want to. I feel like I'd be happier. But I really struggle. And I was watching it.

And I was like, oh, like I was like, I was like, emotion. but it wasn't translating that it was like wetness and then all of a sudden I was like oh and that made me cry more because I was like it's happening and like I like burst like a damn yeah like Superman one but like it was really that and everything with Lois oh yeah I really connect to Lois and Clark in a way that is hard to without getting into an hour of me ranting um Lois to me is one of the most important characters in DC comics and I get a fair amount of crap for saying that but Superman doesn't work without Lois and the DC universe doesn't work without Superman. So I think Lois is the anchor to many stories and I think she's the anchor to this film in a lot of ways and every time there was actual chemistry between these two

incredibly good people. One of them was good and they were feeling the responsibility being good and one of them was good because they were smart enough to know how to play chess around every situation and to see these two like vibing and to have that like chemistry. It just, it was one of those

relationships that made me like love love. Like, I love when I watch a movie about love, and I'm like, ain't love swell, doesn't happen a lot in superhero films, and I talk about that. I have a ton of videos about how I think the castration of love in mainstream film is causing people to not know how to deal with love. I think that an entire generation thinking that showing clavicles in Eternals as like, pearl clutching is gross.

And I think that you can decapitate someone, but if you show a titty, it's weird. Yeah, there's that moment early on where they had a long kiss. And I was like, this is like a little uncomfortable for me for some reason. Because we don't do it anymore. We don't do it anymore. We don't do the impression. That's how we got here. And it's like quiet.

Yeah. There's no like editing flourishes. There's no music. It's just hot. It's just sexual. But how beautiful? Like that's so beautiful. It allows you to kind of zoom in on.

It's like we see people kiss and it's very polite in a lot of like, yeah, massively marketable movies. But here it is like that moment of intimacy where you're like. oh, they probably are intimate together and they probably do have like lustful attraction along with their romance and their love and like it's nice to feel like they're rounded people that way. And I mean, Lois, that whole scene where

they're doing the interview is like the scene that really clicked the movie together early on, you know, when they sit down in her apartment. I didn't even expect the movie to get to that so quickly from what we saw in the trailers. But yeah, that whole debate they begin to have and this moment that is clearly going from like an interesting work slash, you know,

profession experiment into like a personal argument and a personal, you know, weighing of ideologies and stuff like that was when the movie started to kind of transcend, I guess, or the first instance of that. Because a few minutes into the scene, I had that thought that I'll sometimes have watching things where I'm like, oh, we're still in this scene and we're still debating, you know, should Superman have jumped in and stopped the hammer of Barovia? Barovia and, you know, should he have, you know, interfered with this? Yes.

Should he have led us toward Havikimitrapolus? Yeah. Where did you stand on the debate side when it was happening? Were you like instantly like feeling what Lois was pushing or were you like, no, I'm 100% on Superman's side here. Where were you? You know, emotionally, I think it's very, I certainly kind of was pulled toward. you know, Clark's plucky attitude of just like, what did you want me to do?

People were going to die. Like I wasn't doing it for me or for this country or for anybody. It was just like, I needed to go stop a conflict. And like, I appreciate the simplicity of the intent of that, but I think it's a good argument because on the other side, I am like, well, there are a million

other considerations that you haven't taken into account and we live in the world that we live in. So it's a good debate between ideology and, you know, the way things truly are. And I'm ultimately not sure who I thought was right because they were both really convincing. And Superman Clark hit me in the emotional aspect of the argument where I was like, man, if that was me and I had this power and I wanted to help the world, it's probably what I would have done.

But her points are valid and they have to be asked because he's going to be held to that fire regardless. Exactly same. I thought it was really like, I thought it was a really smart way to put you in a world that we can't live in by making. a argument that we do live in like you literally have a moment that you have to go well what if Superman was real and then then you're in the world because you're like well what if Superman was real it is such a genius way to like hack into your brain to be like what would I do in this situation suddenly I'm relating to Superman in a way that I never have in a movie and it's because they made it so real and because they did Aaron Sorkin meets Amy Sherman Palladino interrogation

where it's like it's your heart is Superman and your head is lowest and both are true and so like I love when a movie can have two truths be true, but not be possible simultaneously. And that was the whole scene. So it did the thing. It did the magic trick. We were like, you're right. And it pulls you into that idea that

regardless of any argument, sometimes you just have to take an action and sort it out later. Yeah, exactly. And Superman, of course, is obviously in that position more than a lot of anyone. And that gets to be the whole movie and it gets to have, I mean, this is spoilers. We've already spoiled some things. But it gets to be the movie where you

find out everything is Lex's machinations. And I love that I was so worried about that conversation that I didn't do the movie thing where I was like, of course, Lex Luthor. It got to be a movie where the villain is doing the obvious, but you're not looking for it. You're getting to experience it as someone would. And it still gets to be Lex Luthor pulling the strings while you get to go, like, of course, dubious plan.

And I love a villain that is behind the scenes and in the foreground. He was in the foreground, like, fighting and like video gaming and all the stuff we got to see. but I love that there was that like a Johnny Gossamer novel Kiss Kiss Pank Back where it's like the two stories are one and that's Lex Luthor

So this also was like a great way to set up Lex in a long game Like it was a Lex Luthor villain movie But we have so much more to uncover Because the way they set it up And they also gave them potential to be like President Lex They gave them so much power in such a unique way Yeah

Well in his use I thought was great Because I think the mark of a good Lex Luthor or in any medium is that ability to make you go, oh, well, maybe he wasn't behind this after all. Or maybe he wasn't, as it seems, suspiciously indicating him. And this movie did that a couple times, I feel like, for me. Yeah, I feel like we want to, like, hop on Alex, but you guys got me thinking about something that I didn't actually consider

because during that, that is, like, one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie, the debate scene between Lois and Clark. And, like, when I'm talking about the being kind, um really affecting me it hit me as you guys were talking like oh like i relate so much with superman in this movie on a lot of things but i'm definitely more of a mindset of lowest naturally suspicious skeptic and so when she was having the argument i remember being in the theaters going um yeah clark you're looking a little bit arrogant right now yeah you know and like there are things you didn't consider like this could lead to more violence because of what you did

there's all these consequences but then when it goes back around because that's me playing the online game that's me playing the numbers game the politics but then when you actually go to the country towards the end and you see these like people

just families and children it suddenly hit me of like oh what do politics and numbers and all this shit matter when it's like children's lives are at stake right now and that's my point about what I was saying of how that movie of the being kind and having to choose against it, I'm like, oh shit, that's what really hit me there. And you said Sorkin, and then when you said that, it made me think of Steve Jobs.

Have you seen Steve Jobs? Yeah, yeah, I love it. Have you seen Steve Jobs? I have not. I watched Steve Jobs. It's basically three specific moments in his life that are like a play. And if you look at this film, with Lois and Clark, there's actually three specific moments. there's that debate scene that's showing like they're having that's what's great about it's a debate about Superman and Lois but it's also like the relationship and can they be together and he's too idealistic and she doesn't she he opens up his heart she calls off her heart like it's a lot of great character set up then the second scene from the image of when he's putting up his boots oh yeah rock scene that's that that's the second development and again it's just a dialogue exchange about what is punk rock and then her real and he says I love you

And then the third scene was the first scene you mentioned when they kiss in the subway. So it is kind of like a sorkin structure. Yeah, right? Yeah, of the specifically if you isolate the lowest in Clark. It's like you get like a couple little, like the Daily Planet scene, you get a little bit on the farm, but you don't really get a like meat with them. Right. Those are your emotional respites. Yeah, with those three specific things. And yeah, it just kind of hit me in this moment. That's a really cool observation. Yeah, totally clicked that together.

Because it's also, like, there's a lot of scenes about her talking about Clark outside of them together, but those are the beats where they're together, really. Yeah. I like that a lot. Because, like, I love the Mr. Terrific scene where they're talking about Clark, but it's more context than it is actually their relationship, which I love because that's real life. Like, you get more about someone's relationship hearing about them talk about it than sometimes seeing it. And I love that we got the other side of it when he wasn't there to, like, have an input, like, just to hear about her to Eddie. That's probably why the being kindness punk rock thing actually really affected me because you're seeing lowest open up to that. idea and she had closed off and i'm lowest in that way to being like oh shit man yeah i know what it's like

to be that person shit damn that's pretty pretty awesome stuff it's good writing like the writing in this film is is really something special because it is doing a lot of things with every scene like no scene is one thing and one of my favorite aspects of james gun's writing is when humor is used and you you might think it's just a joke and then it like comes back a little bit later i think because yeah humor can be meaningful yeah yeah i always say what people are like oh it's got too many jokes and i was like you know jokes coming from a place of pain or like jokes happen in real life. Yeah, yeah. Also, that's how people bond.

The only time I was concerned there was a little too much humor was some of the crypto stuff. I thought maybe they might have been pushing it a little too much like when crypto attacks Lex at the end. But in hindsight, I was like, oh, but he did kidnap crypto. Yeah, yeah. He tortured that dog for a while. So if anyone should get some punches in on Lex, it should be crypto.

Yeah. I thought this was the least of the things. things that people don't like James Gunn's humor about of his work. I felt like Guardians 3 was the one that dialed it back. Really? Yeah. I mean, Guardians is the most emotional. I think Guardian 3 is like the most sad. There's a lot of jokes in it while being sad. But I feel like this one was like a slice of life level of humor. Like this felt very like lived in. Whereas Guardians still had Guardians 1 and 2 to set up jokes and stuff. Whereas like I have no problem. I didn't. I personally like the humor. But I think this was the most like sheer

Americana slice of life peeled back of James Gunn's work. Like it didn't feel like, oddly, Superman, didn't feel like it was anything elevated except for what was intended in the universe. Yeah. I feel like some of the humor was sort of tempered, I guess, because it's like, yeah, Guardians 3 is less saturated of tone,

whereas Superman is a lot more saturated of tone. It's brighter, it's bouncier. But I felt like the humorous bits were less prolonged, like especially Guardians 3 has that bit on the couch where they're going back and forth about how do you sit and where do you you know and like that goes on a while whereas like there was nothing really in the humor here that felt felt like it was going on maybe a joke or a bit would pop up somewhere where i can imagine somebody being like i didn't need a joke there but for the most part i felt like it was all grounded in character yeah one of my

i mean two of my favorite jokes in this movie were just so subtle like okay so they had the repetitive joke of they don't like guy garner likes the justice gang yeah yeah yeah They don't like being called the Justice Gang. And maybe there's a lot of Guy Gardner humor in here. Nathan, that feels like the most James Gunny humor with Guy Gardner. But when metamorpho fights with them at the head, and he's like, no, wait, this guy showed her a TV.

He says, like, cool name. And it's like, he really has him on the team. And I did love the reoccurring joke about how everyone finds Jimmy Olson so hot. Oh, yes. The photo, when we saw it in like the trailer, I was like, that's going to be hilarious. And then it was even better at the movie. The joke when Lois says, like,

but he's just putting together, like, all the selfies are actually clues to Lexus Plan. He's like, this is from, oh, your hot ex-girlfriend. And he goes, hot. It's so funny. So, like, yeah, unaffected by it. He's still, like, in another plan. And that, that, to me, is, like, the best way to make Jimmy Olson as elevated as he is in the comics. Because you can't do, you can't in the first film do some of the things that Jimmy Olson gets into.

like he gets turned into a turtle he goes on adventures he has a clone he finds out he's like the son of like a billionaire he like there are so many or like descendant of a billionaire he finds out like that the olsons were one of the like original people that moved into the city and there was like a poor set of olsons and a rich set of old like there's crazy olson stuff but the way you make it work is you do one type of thing is so elevated that you get to a point where you're like man that's so jimmy olson and i'm so excited for things like that in the future with the character because we've already got this insane elevated joke that is real worldly enough.

Like the tone in this film walks such a tightrope. It's crazy. It's like what's the joke of Jimmy going to be next time? Yeah. Like you could do anything because we've got you've given us. Yeah. So there's, I want to backtrack it a little bit because there's other things I want to make sure we're going to get to.

I want to actually take us right back to the beginning. The opening text. That was a really unique way to do it. Yeah. Because there's like two minds that I was having. I remember feeling like, because you said something earlier, which is you really felt something along the lines of that when they got to the debate scene in Lois's apartment that the movie started to find more of its actual groove and I agree with that

because before that I was I was having adjustment problems like I was like oh am I going to just like this but not love it because like the the aesthetic to it at first did feel a little bit like it would remind me of like some of the best looking parts of a good CW episode at first and then part of the pacing was like some people love they they just i love the setup of going right into it but then with going to like the hammer braviified and all these things uh for some reason i was like having a hard time acclimating it wasn't until that scene with lois and and clark there where i was like oh i'm really starting to vibe with this way more like in a natural way but i'm curious to kind of just get your guys as thoughts about the opening which was very much teased in like all the marketing um but yeah coy i mean like the text of

at all. I love the scroll or insert. I guess it wasn't really a scroll because it didn't move, but I really liked the boldness of like, here is everything and you're just going to trust us. We're going to dive in. I strolled with the opening and I was trying to put my finger on it because they showed basically the opening in the marketing. Like the first 20 minutes are very heavily the marketing. So I was having a hard time where I was watching it. I was like, oh, did I see this movie? Like I was so afraid I'd seen the film that I was distracted from the fear of like, did I really this for myself by knowing too much like did so I was in my head and then I was like I'm not adjusting to the tone because I'm thinking about whether or not I should change careers like I was

like I wanted to enjoy the film so much that I was like did I ruin it for myself because of the nature of the work and then that same scene was when I was like oh and then the second two acts are so fresh and not in the trailers that I was like okay they had to give us all this in the beginning I ended up falling in the side of really liking the opening after I was in the film because I realize the end of the film and the opening of the film are not a bookends, love a bookend, but also makes it feeling a comic. Like this feels like you went to the comic store and you just picked up a graphic novel and you had a 10 issue run and then you can put it back.

And I think that's really unique in that it doesn't have to be an origin comic. It doesn't have to be a big supervillain comic. It's one chapter in a thing. And that's what the bookends give you. But I think on second viewing, I'm going to like the first 20 minutes way more than my alienated like, oh, I don't know. But I struggled in real life and then I found my way. Yeah, as you were talking,

I was going, you know what? Actually, the opening is really cool because I loved my favorite part of the text actually, because while they give information about many humans and gods and monsters and all this stuff, my favorite part of it was three minutes ago, he lost his first fight. I was like, damn, that's a really cool lot. And the whole game of the countdown

about 300 odd years ago, 30 years ago, three years ago, three weeks ago, three hours ago, three minutes ago. And why not universe build like that. Like now we could have Supergirl have that opening scroll. And we could do with like Star Wars when it did an opening scroll didn't set out to do that every time. I love that we're living in an age of shared universes where Marvel's got a post credit

scene. That's their thing. What if this thing is like we're in a comic? You know, like that's so cool to be starting something. But I think it's smart to set it up with him being vulnerable, but also like a big theme of this is showing how he's not afraid to rely on connection with other people to help out. Yeah. And I think that's such an important part of being a human being.

And we're so used to associating Superman as like idle God who can do everything on his own. And this movie is this kind of a consistency throughout of relying of being willing to call on help from others. Like especially with the, you know, with the wars going on. I'm going, okay, so at some point some time, Superman is like zip over here too and then they'll the fight. So when the Justin showed up, oh, that's a pretty big surprise, you know? And I think that's a big part of being a human being is the will. willingness to ask for help, call on help, versus, and I think that just makes Superman that much more relatable. But Reject Nation, I'm going to interrupt this video just for a tiny bit to tell you that we

were so inspired by this movie. It suddenly got our creative juices flowing. And now we suddenly have three new inspired teas at Rejectnationshop.com. Can't wait to share them with you guys. The first one up right here, being kind is punk rock. You might have heard a few of us already talking about that theme of punk rock and being kind is such a big part of the heart of this. movie. I'm so glad that we got Alyssa Be Crazy to design this for us. It is a fantastic representation of the vibes and the fun of this film and of course the theme as well. Another one that we got, the Krypton sunscreen from the mind of Aaron Alexander artist. Joanne and Alyssa Be Crazy combined their efforts here. It is a throwback to that classic sunscreen

design, but I feel like it is so emblematic of the type of vibe that Crypto and Superman have in this movie together. And the third one, weirdly, personally, my favorite. Hi, my name is Gary. If You guys have seen the movie, you get the reference, and for some reason, it ended up being my favorite one. I absolutely love it. And I hope you guys love either one of these. If you're able to buy any one of them, it is an amazing way to support the channel, support the artist here as well. You get a lot of weird monetization issues. I've heard many YouTubers probably talk about it, and it is a very real thing.

So it's a great way to offset some of it, and hopefully you guys get something in return that you enjoy rocking. And it's the way you become a righteous reject. So become a righteous reject today by buying anyone. these teas. I can't wait to be wearing these throughout the year, and I hope you guys can't wait to be wearing them as well. Thank you so, so, so much. We're going to go back to the video now. John, please, what did you think about the opening parts before we got to Superman and Lois moments? Yeah, I had a similar feeling, and I am curious to see it again because of what James Gunn said about basically this being his love letter to comics in particular. It sort of dawned on me in the

earlier moments of the movie that maybe not 100% of the way, because I think it's tried and true enough that you need some kind of three acts structure. But I wonder if the movie upon more examination will be paced more like, you know, here is 10 little chapters versus three major acts or something. And I could imagine, yeah, the way it moves through those first few scenes flowing better under that perspective. Because yeah, in the opening minutes of the movie in the first handful of scenes it did feel like you were kind of jumping from one scene into a totally different next scene and it didn't really feel as though they were like necessarily throwing from one to the next or like transitioning from one to the next not that you can't just cut to

but there was something that felt a lot more like okay now we are moving on to this next scene and once yeah they started that argument and the scene itself started to go for it's it's Partly duration, but I think it's partly also the fact that they are just having a debate, and it is like, I think even the music drops out during that, and just kind of let you absorb the room. And like the fanfare of the fact that you're in a big spectacle movie, I think kind of recedes in a good way for a minute once you get to that scene. You know what I'm recalling now is how he's getting healed up, he goes to fight,

he loses the fight, and then the very next scene, he's just going to the Daily Planet. And I remember finding that kind of jarring, because it didn't seem like he was dealing with any, like, physical or mental repercussions from what just happened. It's like, okay, we're just going to the day. But in hindsight, I'm like, that is very Superman. There's a very, like, another day at the office for Superman. But in film medium, I was, if I found it, kind of jarring at first.

It definitely was just done with that? Yeah, yeah, we turn the page. That's it. Okay. Yes, right. Miss a page. Does somebody's arrowing out? Yeah.

And that, that maybe is part of the, the field that I'd love to see get. grown into feeling natural. I'm biased. I'm a comic fan. But I'd love for us not to think of these in film language as much as comic film language. Yeah. Like I think it's cool we're pushing boundaries with like translating these things.

We don't really see him do much of Clark, huh? Like actual Clark Kent. Now I think about it. Daily Planet. That's really only on. The Bond Parkin stuff. No, but I mean like the disguise of Clark. Yeah. Him just being out and around.

They talk a lot about what he does, but they don't actually. Spoilers a hoi. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. uh yeah it is mainly those two sets of scenes yeah interesting it's fascinating interesting okay which is something yeah i i'm not i'm not mad wasn't there but i was expecting more of that i mean he feel like when i think about this movie i'm like i was in a suit like super like

yeah he's not called clark kent like they'd made a superman movie yeah that and i think that he did great enough as clark kent i had the same thing with um batman the batman in the batman Bruce Wayne isn't a character yet and you're seeing him develop the persona of Bruce Wayne. So there isn't really a Bruce Wayne. He's the Batman and the identity of Bruce hasn't needed to be a thing. He doesn't go out in public. He doesn't really show himself. And

here I thought it was interesting that it was kind of the opposite where it was like, Clark Kent's established. We don't have to prove he knows what he is because David Corence wet in two scenes going to be like, this is a different guy and like side by side, different dude. So it was kind of the opposite where Superman was so established and Clark Kent was so established that I was like, oh, we got our Clark stuff.

Moving on. Like the love of Clark and Lois in that scene was enough that I knew Clark and then the love of Superman and Lois was so clear so then the scenes in the Daily Planet, his interactions with people, I want more of that in the future but I didn't feel like it was lacking because we got

so much other stuff. It was like Clark was resident throughout the entire thing. It wasn't like there's Clark and there's Superman. It's like Clark and Superman are one in the same. You felt Superman bleed into Clark and you dealt like especially in the interrogation scene but you also felt Clark in moments of Superman. A thousand percent. That was like why he was so relatable. That was one of the most striking aspects

of the whole movie is and I mean not to slight any of the other performers but like the way just his personal preferences and tastes factored into the small talk of his supermanning even at times was like really charming and I was like oh yeah he doesn't feel like some god who occasionally dresses up as a man he just feels like he's just this kid with these godlike powers rather than some guy you know even though it is look up it still feels ground level of personality. That whole thing with the crab joy is like so fun. Like just, you know, we're always like going off on a podcast's worth of like music riffage at the beginning of every video. And I'm like, cool. I know what the Superman thinks of music. Which is something I never would really

even imagined. Well, like even to the personality point, like we're so hopping around here, the post credit scene with him and Mr. Terrific with the, so much with the wall and now he barely says anything. And he's like, sorry. I feel like he just like the guilt that he goes. Gosh, darn it. I can be real. Like whatever he said. And also like, David Cortswet like sells those lines like there are so few people that can gosh darn it

like it's so impressive very earnest stuff yeah I do want to bring it back to Lex though because you guys were bringing him up and then I kind of took it away here John

you're I mean you've been watching a lot of Superman animated shit with coy and that's like a big part of your association that's how like you know Jesse Eisenberg what did you Justice for Jesse

what did you I know, I actually like it. I like watching. I like his performance. What did you think about Nicholas Holt? You know, I was curious about him going in because I know he's a terrific actor. I've loved his performances and a lot of stuff, and I know that especially lately, he's been out here showing the range. And this was one where I was like, okay, I get the chops.

And I'm curious to see how the stature feels once he's actually lording his intelligence around on screen. Because, you know, I don't associate Lex. Luther with being obviously much brains, but he's also like a physically capable dude it most often feels like. And I feel like Nicholas Holt, to me, presents as a bit of a skinnier, lankier guy. Uh, but happily, I mean, from those very opening moments when you're watching him just sort of like delegating attacks and blows and stuff like that, I got just really swept away by his presence and by his level of condescension, his, yeah, sort of the humor that that brings to his character and the humanity that that brings to his character. And yes, the game,

uh, multiple times throughout the animated movie was we've been watching at least the better ones, you know, there is that thing. It's, this just was happening during crisis on infinite earths where part of me was like, oh yeah, maybe he didn't. Maybe this wasn't a very Lex oriented thing. Ah, damn it. You know, like, it got me again. It got me again. And, uh, you know, and so this movie still had elements of that. And I think bringing him into this story as somebody who is manipulating a geopolitical problem between two warring nations

and having it be that he's just trying to protect the political process around this when actually he is fueling and creating this I forget what the fallacy is but you know creating a false you know is it a false flag when you yeah create some kind of conflict you manufacture an enemy

and so you know you can reap the benefits of you know supplying various weapons getting half the country's lands stuff felt like a really cool way to, A, make it what I understand as classic lex, but also something that while this movie isn't trying to be

very much commenting on the here and now, it feels relevant to the here and now. It feels like the kind of conflict that someone in his position in our world would manufacture and that Superman would be called to mitigate, or at least expected or not expected to mitigate. So between the performance and what they

wrote for him, I thought he was terrific. Any worry I had about not believing his formidable was pretty much wiped almost immediately. And I mean, he does take a pretty sinister turn when he does the whole like Russian roulette thing and stuff like that. Like that was, I didn't actually fully expect them

to go where they went with that. And yeah, I thought he was terrific, but what did you guys think of him? I, as soon as I saw that sneer, the pure, like, glee of Superman being hurt and his, it was like a mix of like pride and envy. And it was just every bad emotion, like we try not to feel all the,

All the feelings were taught rightfully to, like, try to not experience on one face. Like, he managed to, like, get all the bad inside out on his face. And I was so impressed that he, like, stayed there as long as he did. He's an actor who always has a really unique process when he talks about acting. And he's an actor that I think has so much range that doesn't get credit for. Like, I think roles like The Warboy, like Nucks in Mad Max is such a hard role. like that's such a physical and insane high energy role but like the academy and like bafta's like nobody talks about that stuff so i feel like he's one of those actors that's like the fun version of meryl streep like he's got all the range but he does the fun stuff and like i i think the dude's incredible but i love that this felt like the comic to a point where he is one of the only actors i've talked to that not only was like but but but but about comics with me but also he kept certain tomes that when he'd fall out a rhythm of a voice he's he would go to a comic.

So, like, Colin Farrow with the penguin used Gifiltefish. The word Gifilta fish was how he got to the accent. He loved how this one person said Gifiltovish, so we'd use that as a trigger to find an accent, like a totem. Lex Luthor has this incredible run called Lex Luthor Man of Steel. It's written by Brian Azarello, art by Liebermejo,

and it's really, it's like painted, and it's got this, like, gritty, drippiness to it, where when they're as heroes and villains, like, it's got this big scope, like Alex Ross but when they're day to day it feels like the art is like Southern Gothic

it feels like those paintings you see in a museum about like the 1700s and what they thought purgatory was it's got the and while being normal art like no one's oversized

it just has this tone and so I love that book and he said there was a page and I knew immediately the page you were talking about because I love the page where you see Lex reflected in Superman's chest

through the reflection of the mirror and he went back to that page and whenever he wanted to feel envy and he wanted to get the cage of his voice, he'd read that page. And I was like, bro, I just said all the things. I've always wanted to hear in my life. You understand.

And then watching the movie, I was so afraid that I'd hyped it up because I knew that before the movie. I was like, he loves the comics, he loves it. And then I was so afraid I wouldn't feel what he was trying to convey because knowing an actor wants to internalize a comic is one thing, but then seeing it come across is another. But every time he talked, I was like, Leibor Mayhaard. And like, it was to me, what I've wanted since Michael Rosenbaum to find the character

for me. didn't grow up on Superman 78 when I saw the movie I liked it but the whole time I was like why is Gene Hackman doing a bit like it felt like a bit and then uh you know Rosenbaum is like menacing and so good now I feel like I've got the two things like a full movie with spectacle and scope and budget but also like a menacing Lex that I could see being president that I could see growing into a global threat for the entire DCU like you need someone that could be the lead of a legion of doom and not have that be far And dude did it.

Like, so I was impressed. Yeah. I think, I think Nicholas Holt excels in these roles as a man-child wanting more power. Like, um, the menu, you brought up Mad Max, uh, Mad Max, uh, Mad Max, um, and this.

And even in, um, freaking Nosferontan. Yeah. Like that's, I think his type, art type. About a boy. He's a young boy wants more power. I mean, I did that's, uh, X-Men's probably.

the most like sincere was i don't like i like agreed for power but he wants more power to not have blue feet he's a nice guy next man you know um but in that's yeah but in this like the whole thing stemming from inferiority complex and as you guys were talking i was like oh yeah luther core i was like luther decor but normally it's called lexcore and that was one of the things i loved about getting an interpretation of him here when we're talking about a guy who clearly has an inferiority complex and that's where he's sort of threatened by Superman. Visually, one thing I loved is that it's called look, the taglines look up,

and he's constantly looking down in his tower. And so there's so much about the interpretation that I love. And I love how he progressively gets like worse and worse and worse. Even they did something that was really interesting when he first takes like a selfie with Eve and like hugs her. I'm like, oh, he likes her. And then something can feel as domestically violent as throwing a pencil. That pencil was the most violent thing I've seen in a movie in a long time.

I remember being like, I said, I think I was like, Whoa. Yeah. It's weird. It's like it's awful. It's abuse, but it's like you throw a pencil. I don't know since you've seen so much worse than movies, but for some reason, seeing the pencil throw. Yeah.

It's so specific. Yeah. It feels like a real offhand thing, an offhand gesture. And yeah, like that gives the character like thumbprints, you know. And it feels like it was like almost not improv like Nicholas Holt did that, but it felt so naturalized because of how evil he was. I think it made it more jarring because you're like, oh, you would do such a thing. Yeah. It was so much.

Because he hasn't been that. Ruthless the whole time. I've been ruthless towards Superman, but anything else, you know, so I love watching him just like he's willing to tear everything apart. And I believe that he's able to inspire followers. Yeah. I have actual acolytes. But as we're talking, you know, it's normally called Lex Corps. Yeah. And it's called Luther Corps. Which I think is smart because, you know, if you know Lex, he's got issues with his dad. And that I think keeping it as Luther core is a inclination. He's always trying to live up to his dad. It's in the shadow of it. Exactly. It's actually like a pretty smart character. I don't know if that's intentional. There are some runs where it's Luther Corp, but overall it's way more known as Lexxor.

That's way more predominant. Yeah. But they don't want to talk about it at all here. And that's such a big part of why he is the way he is. Yeah. Lionel's never mentioned. Yeah. Lionel, that's his goddamn man. Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Clamp. Yep. Shit. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Like Luther Corps is a very different tone. Yeah. All right.

Cool. So I want to make sure we gain some other stuff here. Luther core is my favorite genre. Yeah. Let's talk about a couple of big things here. Well, let's talk about Superman first. So I've said this many times that I really felt like this was my Superman. And I've talked about other videos already,

but I want to know for you guys what moments were like would be in that theme where you went. That's my Superman. I don't know if those are the words you would use, but what scenes would represent that for you? if you get my question golly yeah those like quintessential superman those

I mean honestly the first thing that always comes to mind is that trailer shot like that that shot where the canisters are exploding and he grabs that little girl

and like braces the back of her neck and like you know cradles her form in his um what was she doing when I watched the movie I was like why she just there

kids are always just watering around you know just stand and just go aimlessly Hydrogen tanks, I'm going to stand here. The context of the movie was like, why she just like better? Like, she's a giant monster. I mean, I really loved how casual he

was in the suit in a way. It's like, there's so much of like, I just kept feeling in all these interactions and certainly I know you guys have talked to Tate on other videos already about him saving that squirrel. Oh no, we actually haven't. That's a moment for me. I was going to say to save that squirrel. And like, it's another one of those things where I'm like, that's like

people getting saved in these movies. has already become a thing that I see and go, oh, they did it this time. Like, how lovely, because it's kind of what all this is about. But the fact that, yeah, even this little creature that there are a million of out there matters enough

to Superman when he sees the opportunity is really lovely. Obviously, again, that breakdown moment of him just expressing his humanity, his earned humanity, was the biggest one. But I'm curious to know what, others you would reach for. A kaju fight in general with him trying to hold up all the buildings.

Because like Superman I see as a force of great strength to defend. I know he punches. I know he's a guy that gets in fights. But to me, that's the last thing he wants to do. Like Superman doesn't want to throw a punch first. So I love that the first big action scene was him stopping destruction. Like the buildings falling was showing great strength.

It didn't make him a little bitch. Like we had to talk about like just the idea of him being weak. he's physically and so strong but he's stopping buildings so like the kaiju fight in itself is trying to save people save the kaiju save save save so those elements of the squirrel those elements of little girl but overall like it's him trying to be everywhere and he's trying to stop things from being violent not cause violence so on the macro that is the first scene meant a lot to me like that was such a superman decision to show him stopping violence and then i mean i i loved that the mislead of the justice gang going to the war and him trusting to have the life saved of the little girl, him

trusting to have his friends be able to support saving others. Like, you need to believe in other people and you need to be able to do the thing you promised. He was always making choices, but he was always like doing the right thing, but it never felt obvious. It never felt like, oh, of course that's the right thing. Like this film was about choices. We got to watch him make choices. He didn't choose to go to the war-torn country. He did join them, but he chose to save the girly promise to save. And, like, there was something just really beautiful about, even in moments of pure rage, seeing the human side of rage, but not seeing him harm anyone.

Yeah. Well, yeah, and seeing those, the weight of those personal, like, even him being as distraught over the bots and stuff, after the bots are all massacred, and the length that he goes to for the sake of crypto. Yeah. Like, this stuff makes sense, obviously. But the way he portrays it combined with, like, they're robots. He doesn't have to care about it.

There's a whole joke that everyone's litigated about whether or not they have feelings, but, like, he is such a good guy, and these are his helpers, and they are remnants of his home. Of course, he's going to care, or his dog. You know, like, yes, it's super dog. It's whimsical. It's silly, but also, like, of course, that's big important, you know. And that's something that is a very human detail, and it's those things that feel very unique to this movie. And, yeah, those are, I feel like there's so much of the Superman performance and character that are,

perfectly synthesized between writing and performance. Yeah, I mean, all life is precious in Superman. I mean, we talked in another video extensively about why I love that scene so much. So I'm not going to just repeat it because I imagine I'm going to repeat it in the live stream already. So watch that other video. Click around. Was it the every camera or something? I think it was the Superman David Coorsby.

Oh, Rankin the Superman? Yeah, it might have been that one. Yeah, could that particular scene of showing that like, humans are no better than all life like all life is equal I thought was a really just beautiful moment that's why the squirrel I think that's why people keep highlighting it's more than just he saved a cute thing yeah speaks to the character

this life matters especially even with the it was like I like that they showed the kaiju as like an infant when it first appeared that way you as the audience can also see it as an infant when it's like this massive creature versus the trailer when you see you're like oh big threatening thing right when you're like oh no this is just like an animal

it's just lost yeah it's an animal who's lost so it's sad what it's actually sad what happens to it, you know. I also got a lot out of the interdimensional, like a pocket dimension because that's weird shit. And I feel like Superman doesn't get to get as weird as he is in the comics often. Like Superman is a golden age character. And comics then were just like, what if we did acid, wrote about it? And now we have some of that with All Star. Now we have like some iterations of like adding in some of those like weird choices. But I mean, we talked about All Star Superman how it's like a five act structure and it kind of.

like goes over it doesn't feel like a narrative it feels like unique this didn't adapt that story but i see why james chose that image to say this is going to be tonally different than you think and and i think the cosmic portal um the the portal pocket dimension scene i loved superman flying and using the x axis in such a strange way that was so disorienting but you always felt like he was in control like the i don't know what combination of drones and green screen and like what work they did to make me believe a man can fly in a new way

but at no point did I feel like a camera like the camera was like a live and so when Superman is flying and whether it's in the final scene with more destruction and catching the building in such a unique way

saving the people in the cars or it's the pocket dimension whenever Superman flew it felt so like someone walking like it felt so like do do but fast you know what I mean like the flight to the fortress

of solitude like that felt like top gun that felt awesome but when he wasn't like it felt like oh yeah, I can just do this. Like, the Z-axis meant nothing. And I love that. It was so like that, like a character,

but corn sweat had to act that. And I feel like people don't get credit, you know, once a stunt is happening at like the acting during it. So like, I think a big Superman moment for me was when I was like, I can fly crazy. Like, I didn't think of it again. And that's incredible work because, spoiler alert, I don't think David can fly.

Well, and they do convince you really nicely of the camera because so much of the flying is done with angles that would be rather impossible to achieve with just a cameraman. It's like, you know, that's part of the difference between like the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit as you start to notice. And like the Hobbit movies,

the camera's like whooshing around in places you could never get a camera. And in this movie, I was frequently marveling at in the flying sequences how it felt like they sky dove a cameraman up there or something because they're these crazy wide angle lenses and they're moving so kinetically that it all feels like you're there somehow

even though it's impossible. And that's an element of movie magic. And I think that's a thing that we are up against with blockbuster cinema. And one thing that I think is a little more off the beaten path, but it's crucial to a movie like this, a big spectacle, an important spectacle.

You've got to be able to show us some movie magic that's unlike anything we've seen before. And that was an instance of something where I was like, you know, this might not be worlds away from things I've seen before. But this is a new version of flying that feels viscerally different than what I'm used to.

Yeah, what did you guys think about the I mean, we only got like 13 to 15 minutes up, so I want to make sure we're staying still tight right now. So the action was the thing. Loved it, move on. Like when it comes to action scenes, you know, that is, from the previous

iterations of Superman, specifically the Snyder time, like action was the main thing that was like talked about a lot and people were really wondering how that's going to turn out. And like, I think on like a visual cool level i prefer still my favorite fight would probably still just on the visual side the smallville fight but emotional context i feel i got so much more out of the fights here even if i don't feel like like if i was just to pull up a clip of the fights that's what i'm trying

to say if i just pull up a clip or just get some snippets i'd be like well the the the snider one looks like cooler just that but context emotional wise i was i'm like i actually prefer this stuff because I'm so in, like when he's like flying back to Porta Totsu, when he realizes his cryptos been kidnapped. Yeah. Like that, you know, like the flying is so cool in Zach Snyder's. But that scene for summer, I'm like,

damn, there's just like, I'm so hooked into what's why he's flying. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's all the content. Like there's, this one doesn't have as much of a like, oh man, that's the oh shit action sequence. But every action sequence. It's like a cool moment that comes up and it's a spinning thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a pretty cool

little bubble moment. I like the bubble moment. No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying, I think there are things, I'm saying there are things within every action scene, though. Like there are memorable parts, moments, motifs, images. Like, it might not be like, oh, man, this one sequence is the showstopper of the movie. But every action sequence has its own little showstoppers therein. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Even with, like, fighting Ultraman, that reveal.

Oh, my goodness. That was the one thing I kind of saw coming. Yeah, I mean, as a comic fan, I was like, they have one or two options. but I personally had a weird thing in the action where it felt like a comic because there because there were like 10 action scenes like it didn't feel like a movie where it was like third act big action it's like we've been having action a lot like if there's issues and each issue has to have action because like I don't want to have wasted $4 in this book so it has to have a lot more action action is part of the character yeah so to me I do I think the first flight

sequence in Snyder's Man of Steel is incredible I think there are moments but as we talked about and the ranking Superman videos. I always talk about Daredevil being some of the best action because you care about Kingpin and Daredevil. Like a punch landing twice is very important to me because it was literally whoever's punching. I care about who's receiving it and who's punching. I need to be invested to remember my emotion of the action scene

more than like shiny. So for me, the action here was really interesting because they had different tones depending on who was fighting. Like I love that Guy Gardner influenced the humor of the fight. Like the middle finger, the first one I was like, did I just? the second. I was like, you said him a bitch. Oh, every other one is a middle of him. Yeah. And like that's so funny. And it's also big and shows power. Then you've got obviously the Mr. Terrific's character that shows like, this is a man who has the technology Lex does, but look at how he's using. Look at this intelligence. Look at how it is. And then you've got Hawk Girl who's just like feral and like fierce. And you got like the screech. That's cool. Yeah. And so to me the action was more dynamic because it was more character built. And then Superman never felt like he was shortchanged by someone else having a cool moment. And sometimes.

and Supergirl movies, if it's called title character and someone else gets the beat, you're like and I did not feel that. Instead, I was like, Superman's the core and then look how great the world building is. Oh, yeah. I was just going to say, like, that was one of the crazy things. Like, there's so much action in this movie and so many highlights. And Mr. Terrifics Wonner got a lot. It was crazy.

That was like 100 people. I cannot wait to see that with 300 people. We went to a screening that wasn't like really as a hype of a screening as you might think. Like, people were actually kind of reserved. There wasn't not as many people as you would think. It wasn't jammed. it wasn't a movie premiere there was space i'm losing my mind and anticipation of the whole house there were a lot there were a lot of like you know people who were critics who were like cynics ready to like those judges also producers that were like yeah so so like when mr

terrific scene the wonder got an applause it was like oh shit this thing really worked it was like one of the cool scenes in the movie um but one even though there's a lot of action in here that's not what anyone was talking about in the lobby everyone was talking about how moved they were yeah you know and because that's the thing is as you were talking i was like well that's That's why the action hits, because I think, like, I love the style of Snyder a lot in the fighting, but when this, you know, phrase style over substance, but if you have such good substance, it elevates your style so much more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I want to, real briefly, I want to kick it back to Donner.

Like, Dick Donner's action is so interesting because it's so about, like, global. Like, Dick Donner's action was always, like, the macro and to show Superman affects everything. And, like, it's, it's California falling into the ocean. And it's like, it's so big. But it's really interesting to look at like Superman had to be so disconnected by like doing these larger than life things that then Clark Kent had to be so different and small. But since I think David's Clark and Superman feel so similar, there's also an emotionality in even a big war or a big action with a kaiju. It feels more hands on. Like I love Dick Donner's direction, like lethal weapon and everything.

Like the man directs the hell of the thing. And his sense of style with Superman was so special. And I didn't watch that until like the last 10 years. And I didn't grow up on. I didn't have that like growing up with that visual. But I was so struck watching Dick Donner, Superman, how much it was like, how did he get this scale in 1977 to have this released in 78? Like, how did you do this in the mid-70s to release in the late 70s?

And I think that style informs a lot of superhero films to this day. What I love is that this film didn't try to go global. It had global effects and it went physically global, but at no point did it not feel intimate. true true um john see you've owned many a dog let's talk about i want to make sure but before we wrap up okay let's hit crypto authority girl what's her name authority girl the engineer the engineer i thought meant someone with authority and i was like engineer and uh i just want to touch on the mid credit moment sure um but yeah but john crypto the the ark and i feel like it's weird it seems like

so simplistic, but I don't feel like a lot of people are talking about crypto and crypto is such a prevalent part. Maybe it's not a talking character, but that relate, like in the beginning of the movie, he doesn't tell crypto to come. He's like, you know, he's annoyed. He's annoyed with the dog. Yeah. And by the end, he relies on the dog to help out. But what did you think about crypto? Well, yeah, it's a beautiful kind of honing in of the nature and accepting of the person. I mean, you know, from the human vantage point, you're like, well, this dog just needs some training um but i love that yeah that crypto got to have a full personality's worth of character you know like obvious i think you see superman's dog and you think just that superman's dog and i'm

like no oftentimes he's not doing what superman wants him to do and i think that that's a really it's really easy to get people on board with a dog and having lex kidnap and torture like all that stuff was way more than i was expecting and obviously it plays on your emotions if you're an animal a lover at all. It's not going quite as hard as like a Guardian's 3 is. But no, I love like, you know, a boy in his dog is like such a classic motif.

And yeah, the way that crypto, for a completely animated asset, in fact, felt like a real living, breathing remnant of home. And yeah, like something to kind of keep you in touch with the playfulness. But who can also come in

clutch when actions breaking out and stuff like that? I thought it was really charming and unique. I think that's so well said. Coy, can you button this with telling, like, the mid-credit moment that Rips on the All-Star Superman shot? Why is that so... I can't even quite put it into words to write itself. Why is that so impactful after the whole crypto journey? That mid-credit scene, I love mid-credit scenes.

I love post-credit scenes. I don't think I've gasped in a while because, like, it's part of the culture. You know one's coming, but they're usually to set something up. Instead, this was reflective. And I think the reason it was so, like, jaw-dropping is we are always watching these to understand and experience something we can't do ourselves. And I think there's always a sense of wonder about space. And I think that we take it for granted because of technology. I mean, it was 60 years ago.

We went to the moon and we saw our first images of space. So I'm going human nature here. I think it's an incredible choice to make an alien character sit on the moon and have us reflect on ourselves because it satisfies the micro-es, of who Superman is, a reflection of self and a wondering of what we'd be in that position of power. But it's also looking at humanity from someone who isn't one of us

that loves us so much. So in one image, we are getting what are we, who are we, how do I be better, and we're getting that sense of awe and new frontier and wonder and being a man in his dog. While being a character art.

Yeah, that's crazy. It's just bobb-smacking. Well said. Well said. Now the couple other things we want to touch on, the authority engineer how do you feel about her as a character i felt like it's just a setup like i i definitely um didn't quite intrigue me to see the authority though i'm not going to lie okay

it didn't like get me there i mean i i can't separate my like comic knowledge yeah and also like i like that era of comics everybody hates it you know when someone hates something you feel like more defensive of it yeah like no it's a good movie um i like edgy comics like i like comics from the era where there was a thing in the in the post 9-11 world where comics were like hey the world kind of sucks what if everything sucked and all comics are written like ugh hardcore and like the 90s was chains and big the 2000s feel very reactionary to us going to war and and the kind of loss of american exceptionalism so the authority always felt to me like in the 70s they started writing daredevil as if the writer was in new york sitting next to him at the the bar and you felt like you were a part of that scene in that culture in the 2000s it felt like a nationwide experience of oh are we not good and so i like the authority because it's a very very strong commentary i'm like so maybe superman's for hire and batman's not the best guy and what if they're boning like it's an interesting um thing and and to me she is a factor in that that could

get used or not, because I don't know what's up with the authority movie. So I can't separate that I like that weirdness enough that I admit, like, I thought she did a perfectly fine performance. It wasn't the actress. I admit that the visuals were cool. I think all the blades going by Lex was awesome. But at no point was I like, bring me back to the engineer. And I was like that with other characters. But at the end of the day, when I say it right now, I love the authority so much. I'm like, more engineer. But in the movie, I wasn't. So I will, I will totally acknowledge, like, it didn't sell me on its own, but it sold me with my love. It's the one character that feels like, oh, this is another comic book character for you to recognize, whereas everybody,

like, you know, metamorpho, whoever else feels more like actual characters, even if they don't show up a ton. I mean, uh, Coy, and I talked a bit in the, in the cameo video about the justice gang. So, like, why don't you give us some quick thoughts on what you thought about, like, terrific guy gardener hot girl oh they were super fun terrific is absolutely like my favorite other character of the movie and the whole relationship the whole back and forth between him and clark was really fun and lovely and the way that they almost have like this professional dialogue with each other and mr terrific being this person who does have a such intelligence and capability but who is also you know a morally minded wielder of all that stuff uh it felt like

almost like a big brother situation or like a mentor situation and like i thought the rest like i'm intrigued to see more hot girl uh you know i liked what we got here both of both her and guy gardner i kind of expected to be more prominent but i'm not really upset that they weren't i feel like guy gardener is kind of just enough because of the nature of who he is they're more humorous and cool we're terrific as a character yeah yeah exactly it's like hot girls is sort of unaffected and cool and so she shows up and she's pretty badass and yeah i like that they had the sort of hot girl streak in there and then yeah guy garner obviously you know a funny kind of ass of a character and then yeah mr terrific though really stood out and got me excited for if that rumor or

speculation is true to rumor i might have started john if your scoop you're verified as being absolutely 100% true scoop but i would love that movie like like he uh blew me away and i was really enamored with him yeah as an individual and with superman's yeah very true in very brief uh i said something in this actually the comment i made first about wanting terrific to be the spinoff that james said one of the comments actually has shaped my thoughts about this film ever since and it was on this channel i said during our podcast that i think now that we have a character that is so predominantly about hope i really hope we can also have a character that people can inspire be inspired by that's about intelligence being a superpower and someone

i don't remember the name i don't remember the quote i don't remember exactly what they said, but the gist was we don't need to value intelligence if we have hope. And like something effective, like it being negative that I was encouraging intelligence. And I've thought about this quarterly a day. Like, I've thought about this every few hours. And I think that watching that movie gave me such a sense of why we need that character to react to people like that. Like, we need, we lose the dumber we get.

And like, dumb people will have seven kids for every smart person's one. We're being taken over. just bath and so when we encourage unintelligence and we ban books and we encourage following blindly and we encourage the idea of this is the way it's meant to be don't ask questions we need characters that are effortlessly cool that do ask questions that have the actual sound mind to invent their own thing and take control of their own destiny so i think now that we have a character about hope i think mr terrific is an essential part of what culture needs to lean into which is that the thing we can control is how informed we are and how smart

we are. So read some books and like, don't be a dumbass. I also just like the Mr. Triffix spaceship was very intuitive. Very intuitive. Yeah. And then Ultraman. I'll start. I'll just set it up with this. Like, when, I mean, it would seem, it was predictable to me because, I'm not familiar with in the

comics, actually, even though I read a good amount because of you and James Gunn. The, the, the twist was obvious to me just because of when the entrance of porches are so solitude. I was like, oh, okay, he's got to be like a Superman clone or some shit like that because that's the only way you can get it with the DNA and authority like totally a gender totally set that up

now when they did the reveal uh hey I like the mullet that's like oh okay it did it finally they did the mullet um but I was hoping it would call it would fanatically do something to Clark a little bit but what I love

that they instead did because there's that whole thing about brain over brawn and then that's what Lex is saying to do. And then Lex relies on brawn. Yeah. Literally really could duplicates the brawn uses. Yeah. And then the brawn he's against uses his brain with the brain. Yeah. I was like, oh, so smart, you know. Yeah. So I actually like the usage of that, even though I thought the setup was going to be more of like some type of commentary

on reflecting Darkside Superman or whatever. Yeah, our nature and nurture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought like the twist with that was cool. The fight was pretty cool, too. Well, and stuff like that makes up for, again, like I don't really hold it against the movie that that's like a pretty obvious twist you can see coming because it earns it with choices like that. Yeah.

Like it justifies and it makes it more interesting so that you're like, oh, the point wasn't a reveal. The point is, you know, to show another variable that Lex can't ultimately control. I thought it was going to be a, I thought it might have been a black noir thing like in boys where you're never going to see the guy's face. Yeah, I thought maybe they might do that.

But what you think about Ultraman? I thought it was fine. I think I definitely assume. that was going to be the thing so it wasn't it wasn't a twist but also kind of the it's not darthaider it's not i'm your father it's not meant to be like a pop i think it's going to be for you know people it's going to have a moment but it doesn't undermine the experience i'm not big on uh man fight self as a literal uh in in metaphor like i think it's one of the things in logan that i don't love is you know logan v logan i would have rather had that be like saber tooth or someone that's like more of a more of an abstract

commentary than like man versus self sure sure but i do think the use of the payoff is worth the getting there. So I think he needed a formidable foe. I think you don't want to use on just the business side. You don't want to use too many villains up front. Like, I think it's a good first villain because you've got Lex as your big bad.

You don't want to Bizarro yet. You don't want to throw it. So I'm glad they didn't throw a bunch of villains at our first movie. So I did like that it paid off with some intelligence and it didn't waste a villain as a hench mini level because we got to really focus on Lex.

Yeah. All right. And then the last thing I want to talk about that you brought up so early on in this is the kissing scene in the subway. Man, that fucking shot. Yeah. When it just followed them in and then you're going up like, wow. You feel like you are lifting, like, or that's how I felt like my stomach. Wait, wait, no, there's two things you got to talk about.

We got to talk about literally the last moment with Clark and the Borgas of Solitude and Gary. And then we kind of talk about and then the kissing. It's weird because, like, you know, Lois, that was the thing is like, this is the first movie of Superman where I have, I've never been. so moved by a relationship of Lois and Clark. It's like everyone's always saying like you, like the importance of lowest, the importance of lowest and the lowest and the lowest and the lowest and Clark, but it's like,

well, you know, sometimes, yeah. But in this movie, like, to show those character arcs of her coming to that, I love you point and putting her walls down, and like the way he reacts and smiles to making me want to cry right now. Like, that's, this is one of those movies that makes you cry out of hope and love, you know? And I think, and that is one of those

romantic moments that like, oh, I'm crying out of love right now. Yeah. No, yeah. Yeah, it overflows your heart with joy, and it's hard-earned because it's a cathartic moment at the end of so much stuff. And one thing this movie kind of struck me with is, is especially as of that made credit scene, you know, like gazing down upon the earth, like to Superman, or at least

as I'm looking at him right now, like global stuff is kind of the neighborhood stuff. Yeah. And so after, you know, the neighbor, after fighting to say. the neighborhood essentially, this sweet, tender moment with his best girl feels, you know, it's a tiny moment amid a bunch of global scale stuff and yet it feels just as big as everything else and it's just as buoyant as everything else. And for all their back and forth and all their sparring throughout the movie, to have this moment where they are just able to, yeah, float upward and to just feel joyous and to literally be effervescent in that, you know,

is a really nice reward. And yeah, it's a nice return to the idea that you can have actual romance in these things and it doesn't have to be trite or requisite. And, you know, like, they've both been out there fighting and they've both proven, I think, to each other beyond any conversation, who they are and why they belong together.

And it looks like a visual acceptance of Superman and Lois. Well, and I didn't. And The Daily Planet, how long's that been going on? Well, I was going to ask you in the comics, you know, like, is that I, I, there's a running, fun commentary that Lois is cheating on Clark

with Superman. Because people know she sees Superman. So I'm wondering if they're going to do the other bit. Sure. I wonder if they're going to be like, are you sleeping with Clark playing? You seem to be pretty flirting with Clark. What's going on? Yeah. So like, I really like that they're not dumb. I like

that the Daily Planet, like they're played in jokes, but not at them. Like, we're not laughing at the Daily Planet. So that joke I was like, yeah, Perry White, Chief, like he would notice. Yeah. That was great. great um the final moments wow again the way they handle mom-pa can't dude like you don't get them much of them but they're so impactful when they're there and you see like the upbringing in those

final moments of the home video footage yeah i love the whole gary thing my god yeah and you see that he's not number four it's gary i was too yeah he's not number four it's gary i was also or so is gary like that's such a funny lie um but uh the but yeah that moment moment, um, literally quick. Oh, God damn. Just keep on our stuff. That is something that pulled me out in the beginning. I was like, that's fucking Bradley Cooper. Yes. Yes. That's. And that other actress who I think that might have affected me. Yeah. Oh, that's really funny. I am so distracted by the fact that's Bradley, we haven't even speculated on whether, about the whole thing with the message again, but it's so much about choice. Even if the message is true to be that or it's a,

or it's a manipulation of the language of him saying like, no, you should be leading these people because you'll have powers like that's a big debate that we can have um go watch go watch the dc studios podcast recording our on there with brandon davis and uh frankie and tyler uh whole thing so yeah this is all you're just spreading out our talk everywhere um but um but yeah i mean who on coi you touch on you the the final moments with the with the palm pot camp when they say you want to see oh god i mean like that's that's your that's your guardians three like uh i love so i don't talk about this a lot and because it isn't a factor in my life a lot. My dad

that I call dad, like my dad adopted me. Like my dad is not bio my dad, but he raised me. He got me into comics. Like he's been in my life since I was two. And so, like when my parents got married when I was five, like he gave me a ring and asked if he could marry my mom and I'm at the

wedding with them. Like I'm a part of that. I've never felt adopted. But when you're a kid and you are adopted every so often, there'll be a moment of like, well, my life would have a like, those with that guy. And like, I don't have any relationship with my bio dad and I got nothing against him or for them, but there

is that question that you have biologically. And so as I get older, Superman resonates more and more because city life versus rural life and choices I made and spectacle and then I've also got this thing. And so, uh, it's really cool that I can like talk to my dad about Superman and

feel like I got like Paw Kent. You know? So like, wrecked me. Like, I was a mess. Like I was just like watching the scene and just being like, oh, so if we react to this, Greg, it'd be happy. This is the one. Why is it?

You guys, you guys want a thumbnail. Um, so yeah, that, that end scene, I think was a very effective resonance image for anyone that loves their family, that anyone that cares about anyone. Like, you get a celebratory punk song while it's spiraling and you're looking at like key moments in your life. And as I get older, I'm really, I'm really aware of mortality. Yeah. And I think about death all the time.

And I think now in moments of like, in my montage, this was a moment. And I thought that during a montage. I thought during the end of Superman, I was holding my fiance's hand. I was crying. I was at an event that I fought for for 10 years that I've worked so hard to be a comic person

that's relevant in the studio space that like, you know, James is back there who I really respect the work of and there isn't, like there's a lot of people who I don't respect and he is one of the people I do and I get to work within the studio system. about this film and I've tripled down on this movie like I've I've been so enthusiastic about this being good and there was the first oh my god this is a movie that's I'm gonna remember the rest of my

life second that was like oh my god this moment is in the montage but third I was like oh what a relief I get to talk about this for months and not like and so all of that is happening while he's spinning around and having a montage and it felt like a montage beat in a montage and it really wrecked me yeah so right like so many I feel like we've been programmed by comic book movies to be like it's exciting it's fun I love it the future and I think a lot of us weren't expecting to be like I was so moved by that I think that's like the last thing and we sat still that the whole credit that is how this movie surpassed high expectations yeah because I'm so used to like all of us of certain like

things they got to check off of like what you have to be satisfied with that I wasn't even thinking like oh my god I wasn't expected to be so emotionally enveloped and moved and want to change as a person like that is that that is a surprising feat but yeah that moment that moment just shattered me too that was beautiful yeah i couldn't set it better um yeah we there's more stuff to talk about media monkey bots monkey bots we didn't even touch on metamorpho supergirl there's there's supergirl supergirl we talked about that in our yeah john i want to know your thoughts actually yeah i want to know really quick because i was telling coy that because i didn't read the comic i actually was thrown

for a loop because my other this is the thing is like i've seen other iterations of Supergirl, but not drunk Supergirl. These are the three tiers of awareness. I'm obsessed with the comic keys only halfway. What did you think? I'm halfway after watching that. So I didn't read any until I saw that. Well, it's for, I mean, it's fortunate for me that we have watched some of these recent,

some of these DC animated movies recently that are a bit more supergirl centric. And I mean, we just did the Legion of Heroes one. So I'm at least more used to the concept now that, oh, she's, you know, got a similar story to Clark, but someone who's like really struggling to figure this out, find her place. And I thought that was a fun, but some slight, you know, I think for your average viewer who doesn't know this, who is more in my shoes. Yeah, you might not expect Supergirl to be introduced in a way that some people might view as undignified. And I thought that was really fun. And from what I understand, true to character. And from what I have glimpsed in the animated

stuff, true to character. And yeah, it immediately pulled me and I was like, I want to see them. like and I'm excited for what I imagine will be some brief appearance from David Corrin Sweat in the Supergirl movie at some point perhaps maybe yeah I thought was a great introduction and I

from those brief moments of just seeing Millie Alcox personality I know it's not fully on display but it was another one where I'm like yeah get her in the suit I can't wait to see it I glad you liked it and yeah we'll touch Tom endomorph hopefully they're in the live stream yeah last stream all the stuff that you guys didn't hear here, comment on the last year. And we know

we'll repeat some of this too. Rick Flagg Sr. Yeah, Fred Grillo. Yeah. More things than opposed to theories and stuff. I had fun talking about it. I mean, it's a two-hour movie and I feel like I can talk for like 10 hours. Absolutely. Thank you both for this. Thank you guys for all who watched.

And I'm excited to keep talking about Supermax at the time of uploading this. Tune in tomorrow for the live stream. Oh. See you guys. See tomorrow.