The Reel Rejects - THE LAST OF US Season 2 Episode 7 REACTION! Gamers, Breakdown, Review, & TLOU Ending Explained

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Starting point is 00:01:00 Hey, John. Hey, Greg. What are you doing Monday at 12.30 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. Well, you and the gamers are doing a live stream for the last of us. Ah, but you blind reactors are joining the stream at 2 p.m. PST. Are you not? That's right. We are. Then you all better join us.

Starting point is 00:01:17 Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this video. More on them in just a bit. And without further ado, guys, let's get into The Last of Us. Well, guys, first of all, thank you to the people over at Prepper for cutting down these highlights. Also, if you're listening to this review on Apple or Spotify, make sure to give us five stars we've just finished the season finale to the last of us, season two, episode seven. Let's start with Andrew. Hey. How you doing, dog?

Starting point is 00:01:54 How you feeling? What's you thinking? I'm good. My favorite scene was the one with Ellie being hunting. up i thought that was the most you know what i actually didn't mind that scene just because it just kind of shows a little bit of the parallels because we know that's obviously in the vg with abby so it just kind of stresses again just how very similar her and abby are so kind of was a weird point to put it and you could have definitely done without it but again i just feel it and the need to that it does

Starting point is 00:02:20 stress it but i really did enjoy this episode or really there were a lot of things again that this does that were not included in the vg that i'm like oh i'm so glad they they had it that gives it a lot more nuance gives it a lot more depth especially jesse and ellie's relationship there were definitely moments of tension and stress in the relationship in that when obviously ellie was more strung up on the revenge and you know using the going after Tommy or going to find Tommy as as an excuse to yeah yeah we'll get out of here and all that but you really feel that rift in the relationship even more so i feel like in this episode and i'm i thought both actors just did such a good job of conveying that that conflict that they felt in their

Starting point is 00:03:02 relationship. But then I'm glad that they unfortunately before it all ended for Jesse, who I loved his performance again in this episode so well done. But I'm glad that they were able to repair that. And again, once the forgiveness was starting to happen, just like with Joel, Abby ripped it away both times for Ellie with, with, you know, Jesse and with with Joel. So, you know, that again, there's so many different parallels that Abby and Ellie have I really really really like again that that opening scene we got as well with Jesse and and with Dina as well it just against it it shows obviously the intellect with Jesse like me you can tell what's up she's not she's she's having like basically a surgery in front of him in terms of with that arrow and she's not taking any alcohol but and I just like the obviously you can see the how much Dina like means to him first of all but also too like he's picking up the signs that she's pregnant and you know i like we didn't again we didn't get that in the vji so i like seeing that again that added layer there but i just i like seeing too just how important dina is to him and again the it's

Starting point is 00:04:14 really is a triangle even though you know we got into that backstory a little bit about that painter was it from new mexico or wherever it was uh that came in and we had that little uh you know story about you know how we fell in love with it was the greatest two weeks i'm glad we had that added uh story in there because it just showed that even though he's not fully in love with her in that way he still cares about her and would do anything for dina and for ellie as well and i think that backtracks into going for her even though he's going to be a father and obviously he doesn't know his fate like we do but he still goes in for ellie in that like even though he knows he's going to be a father he still goes into to go get ellie at the aquarium knowing that it could be the end for him

Starting point is 00:04:56 And that's because not only is he a good person, a good leader, but Ellie's his friend, and he would do anything for her. And I think that reinforces, like, his, how he, how principled he is and what a good friend that Jesse is. And I really love this character. And again, I just, I love the way they executed his character so much more in this. Again, I still love him in the VG a lot, but I really like, you know, the dynamics that he has. One more thing, I will say, I really, really, just one quick thing. I love that shot of the shark that we got just because we know in the game. Lev is such a big fan of sharks.

Starting point is 00:05:29 She's scared of the ocean, but she loves sharks. And again, also we get a little same thing, a little bit of a parallel as well with Abby. We see that foreboding shot of Heath the crane. She's scared a height, so we get to see. They do a great job in this episode of giving so much foreshadowing for season three. I thought it was really done really well set up so that after you watch season three, you can come back to this episode. And I'm sure many other episodes of this season go, wow, that was set up so nicely. Greg, what did you think?

Starting point is 00:06:02 Those are all good points, Andrew. I liked it. I liked quite a bit. Admittedly, there's parts of it where I have to, I've been pretty good this season about divorcing my feelings from the game to accepting what this is. I've been pretty solid about it. This was probably the first episode in the season where I actually had the hardest time separating myself because I became very aware of how much they skipped over in Ellie's journey to get to this point that in my head I was in a bit of a conflict of going, is this rushed to this moment or do I just think it's rushed because I, I know a bunch of stuff they left out, you know. And due to that, it is.

Starting point is 00:06:55 And admittedly, that actually happened with me several times in the first season. And then on the rewatch, I didn't feel any of that. So I'm wondering if on the rewatch of this season, which I will inevitably do, will I then think the same thing? For a first time watch, I'm kind of there a little bit. Like, if you don't know the game, I can't imagine that this felt rushed, right? What do you think? I feel like they got the essential story beats because I think about intention when I think of adaptation.

Starting point is 00:07:30 I was keeping that in my mind when I was playing it because I was playing it on new game plus, but also on the easiest difficulty to kind of get the story in its maximum because obviously with gameplay kind of elongates that. So for me, it didn't feel necessarily rushed, but I do feel a similar thing about feeling conflicted about how things were adapted, but from a different sort of perspective that I'm sort of wrestling with here as you're talking. But, yeah, I'll let you go on. Okay.

Starting point is 00:08:07 Yeah, that's good to know. I imagine it's it's primarily a subjective feeling that I share with a small handful of people where I mean the episode is still has like so many great scenes like I said during I think the adaptation of Jesse and Dina is much stronger and I like both Jesse and Dina in the game Jesse's in the game to me is you know pretty cool calm and collected I think there's way more emotional range and depth to the portrayal here, the dialogue scenes back and forth that they provided with his struggle of personal desires versus responsibility and leadership. You know, it is cool to get these two scenes between Isaac talking about leadership and then Jesse

Starting point is 00:08:56 talking about being a leader of the community. Whereas I don't really feel like Isaac is a leader. I think he's like a positional leader. He's more of a general. He's someone who kind of barks orders and expects people to fall in line. That's not what leadership is to me. And leadership is more someone who can inspire, can emboldened, can empower, find people's unique strengths and stuff. And I think he's able to see that and empower people around him. That's why people love Jesse, because he's actually a good person and he cares about the people around him, whereas Isaac doesn't, I don't get the impression, Isaac actually cares about the people, right? I think Isaac likes needs to use the people for his own personal game right and so i liked seeing these two

Starting point is 00:09:40 different sides and i never really viewed jesse as a leader in the game and to be the next maria but in the context of the show i really believed it yeah for sure so that again i think they really excelled in that adaptation department um i think bella ramses uh fucking great and her body language and her ferocity. I love the additional line impact about again they elevated some stuff with about the community and being like my community

Starting point is 00:10:12 was this one guy and it was taken from me. And that lent more weight to it and I like a lot how they adapted the scene when Mel dies. I said it, I think I said in the last episode.

Starting point is 00:10:28 This show kind of hugs you a little more whereas the game is a lot more cold. Like that is one of the, in the game, when the game, she's like fighting with Mel and she, when she stabs her in the neck.

Starting point is 00:10:41 She stabs her in the neck. Stabs her in the neck. She's actually engaging in combat with her. And that, it's like the hyperventilating scene, the sound drowning out. That is like, like a,

Starting point is 00:10:53 like when I'm playing it, it's like my heart is sinking and I'm just, I'm there with her, you know, and it's a completely different, type of emotional affect here and i like it a lot i don't really have a preference because they both you the context is so needed for both versions in order to do it like i don't think here's well if they did it like how it is in the game i don't think it would have worked yeah it's a lot

Starting point is 00:11:23 harder it's like colder for sure yeah like and well we you guys were talking about like moments before in the game ellie like straight up murders a dog yeah just have the dog and that was the part that i was worried that was they were going to show and you're right i think it would have really veered her a little too unlikable and yeah it's like i think there's so much added layers and because of the amount of both seasons cut out two of my favorite fights in the game um last season the fight with david what were her and david are on a mission yeah completely cut that out i was in agreement i know andrew was very bothered by that i was really i was actually it was easy for me to past that but i it is one of my favorite fights in the game and this episode this season cuts out

Starting point is 00:12:09 the whole thing when ellie's um like fighting so much of the wlf and that's in in the game when jesse shows up and saves her like that is my favorite fight in the game hands down second would be uh when abby is isolated and she's uh she thinks levin yara ban on her uh which i pray to god they adapt as because i think that's like an important story scene If they don't include that, I'll be pretty upset. I think it's like more than an action scene. It's like a story scene. Whereas like the WLF scene that I'm saying, I think it does add to Ellie's bravado and that one thing I do feel this season kind of missed.

Starting point is 00:12:51 And maybe you'll agree to me. Maybe you don't. I like the guilt. I like the shades. I do think the rage being pushed. to the maximum limit of blind revenge ambition, I kind of don't feel like it was there as strong as it could have been. No, that was part of my gripes or internal conflict with this season.

Starting point is 00:13:14 Yeah, the emotional ramp up and drive. Because that's what makes that moment in the game so impactful when she kills Mel. Because it's like, oh, my God, you've gone way too far. Finally, yeah, finally seeing it. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I imagine on a rewatch won't be as effective. But I hope that's to a bit of a higher standard this time around because Ellie is my favorite video game character of all time. And saying that, I think Bella Ramsey is doing a great job doing her own thing.

Starting point is 00:13:44 And I liked it. I do think that serified scene at the end was a little unnecessary. Glad we set up that lady. Yeah, that was definitely more set up for season three rather than it was essential to Ellie's journey. but what do you think man um your one note is ellie guilt right that's the one thing i wrote which i thought was interesting because yeah and correct me from wrong on this both of you um after one that moment starts when she gets back to the theater after killing nora with her hand shaking and it's like a what's like an upward shot of her hand trembling after her what she did

Starting point is 00:14:25 to nora and then you cut to the theater and then the cleaning scene right and then the game's a little bit differentiating it stopped by an arrow she was uh experiencing morning sickness dina but in this version of it you know you and in the game i remember her being like haunted and hollow from what she just did and like i made her talk yeah i'm still like and she's like reeling from that but she's still on her journey on her mission to go forward with finding abbey and in this version of it it was a lot more emotionally conflicting she confesses to dina and I personally thought it was interesting because I think it allows Bella Ramsey's version of L.A. to have more dynamics and make that journey more emotionally conflicting. But I feel like when you were a player of the game, you were still on that journey.

Starting point is 00:15:24 This version of the show really wants you to feel the ramification, the ripple effect. of Ellie's choices through the characters around her whereas the game you really don't have that come to Jesus moment you have it twice one when you kill Mel in the game and then two obviously at the end with the

Starting point is 00:15:43 beach right and I feel like having it come sooner I don't know if I'm with two minds because on from an audience perspective as someone who's just watching a story I'm like okay yeah like this person we like you know she's having some

Starting point is 00:15:59 reflective thoughts you know she wants to go on this journey but she's also acting in this selfish nature while in the face of somebody who is on the more selfless side who is more about his community is challenging her to her face where in the game it didn't do that as much and also um jesse's death was i felt more impactful in the show than it was in the game because you really got to spend time with jesse and it's one thing you know having two kids characters, you know, as you're playing them, seeing their backs in hearing dialogue versus them actually having scenes. I feel like it just rings as more powerful.

Starting point is 00:16:40 Do you say? I don't know. No, no. But yeah, so at the time we get to Mel, you know, there is this moral conundrum within Ellie already brewing and this sense of questioning. She has a harder, a greater sense of empathy, right? she wants to save the seraphite kid which is not a scenario

Starting point is 00:17:02 we were ever put in within the game because she's solely one-track mind about I need to hunt Abby in any cost and anybody who's going to get in my way it's going to get mowed down and it seems like they're going that way in episode three or four because when Dean and Ellie look at each other

Starting point is 00:17:18 she's like what if there's other wolves that aren't Abby what are we going to do and then just like looks like confirm it like yeah we're taking them all out but actually actually into this journey it makes sense and I like the fact that they took um some more heart put more heart and more emotional conflict into ellie because you know it's it is that thing of oh what am i doing but oh no these are just more reasons why i need to do uh this journey right so yeah it's it's it's an interesting thing because i've i've talked

Starting point is 00:17:49 to people that have played the game and they're like no she's not she's not thirsty enough for the revenge you know she's not uh she's not motivated enough and part of me's like yeah Yeah, she's not like the Terminator because one, she's, Bella Ramsey's pretty small and I feel like it could suspend your, it's hard to suspend your disbelief watching someone look like Bella Ramsey just mow down a bunch of people and them really heightened using the stealth aspect of things. But also, you know, makes her, I don't know, a little less likable, I suppose from an adaptation standpoint, which is also why they didn't do the dog thing I imagine because one, Bella Ramsey is small and watching her take on a big ass dog would probably be. be hard to believe but also just like ooh we don't want people to kill dogs um yeah they don't even kill shimmer no we love the animals around these parts um but yeah i think that it was good i really liked it i didn't i don't know if it's because i played the game or we and i knew what's coming or the way it was adapted but i definitely feel like the emotional peak whether that be you know

Starting point is 00:18:55 morning or just like hyped or shock comes from the last episode and this is like obviously the first part of a larger story now the thing i'm curious about from people that don't play the game is how are they going to be willing to tune into season three knowing that we're following abby because when you're playing the game you just start into it straight away but now people have to wait a year to find out what happens at abbey's side of the story and people going to care. I think it's two years, 2027. 22. You have to wait two years to follow the character you already hate.

Starting point is 00:19:30 Debra's going to buff up. She's going to pull a Taylor lot on her on us. They're going to go back and fix it. But like I found it fascinating what Greg said right away when he saw her. We haven't seen Abby since episode two, but in ten seconds of

Starting point is 00:19:45 Greg seeing her and I felt the same way and I'm not going to speak for you. I got to imagine you felt the same way. She's incredible. Like you could feel that rage right on her in her, in her emmoating and her facial expression she's a captivating performer yeah and um she really offsets a lot of i still think i don't care what they disclaim in their podcast i still feel abby should have been buff but i'm able to see past it because kately endeavor is that good of an yeah i agree with yeah yeah i wholeheartedly agree with um with that and i think she's she's phenomenal i've

Starting point is 00:20:21 seen her other work outside of this. She's great. But yeah, I'm very curious to see, you know, will people be willing to tune in in two years to watch Abbey's side of this story? Rejignation, when we started this company, there was no manual throughout the years of figuring

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Starting point is 00:21:59 Do you think, I don't think they should have showed this whole Seattle Day one thing. I think, you know, they just left it on the cliffhanger. If they left it on the cliffhanger, I think everyone, I think people would have tuned in. I think people would be more likely, instead of telling you, like, here's what we're going to do next season. Yeah. I feel like just piss people off next season. Yeah. In Seattle Day, when they're going to catch you up to where we left off.

Starting point is 00:22:18 Yeah, like the last of us should. sell itself, but I agree with you. And I think, like, holding it on the cliffhanger would have been the wise choice right there. But I think their thinking was, and I'm sure you guys agree with this, is that, oh, the audience right now, we want to set them up for, you know, Seattle Day 1. So we're just going to show them what they're, what's in store for season 3. But I agree with you. I would have just set it up for the cliffhanger and have them be pissed off for two years. I think that would have been the smarter choice rather than, okay, we already know what we're doing. and we don't want to watch this character that we that as opposed to having them feel mystified and like, wait, what's going on right now?

Starting point is 00:22:57 It's Ellie. What's happening right now? You know what I mean? Yeah. I think they adapted Jesse's death really well. But I think it hits harder because we spent more time with him and had those emotional conversations. Not only time spent, but intentional time. I appreciate that they did it very similar.

Starting point is 00:23:14 Like it just happened spontaneously. So matter of fact, he's gone. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the way how they. I appreciate that they kept it that way. I was thinking, like, are they going to make it more of a moment? But now they did the same kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:23:26 We're like, holy shit, he's been shot. And the face. And since we're talking about spoilers, it's literally an exact same death happens with Manny, where it happens instantaneously just like that, or spontaneously, just like that, right in the face. So it's going to be interesting to see if they parallel that. There's so many parallels.

Starting point is 00:23:44 I know I use that word so often, but there's so many parallels in The Last of Us. I want to go back to one thing that Greg was talking. talking about in regards to that Isaac leader scene. And I think Greg made again some really astute points in regards to what a leader does and like seeing the contrast between Jesse and Isaac and, you know, a good leader, you know, leads by example. But I think what was interesting too about that scene is we got a lot more depth as well in terms of why Isaac was so pissed off in the VG about Abby leaving. Because in that, we just had heard that Abby is the top scar killer and we

Starting point is 00:24:16 didn't want her going off base because we needed him or rather her and manny leading the charge into for the against the seraphites that's all we got that was the entire nuance to the whole thing now hearing that hey i'm probably going to die you're probably going to die most of us are probably going to die but we need abby to to be in charge after this and like wow that i mean now when i play the game having that like level of of of where i Isaac's head is at it gives it a whole new meaning now like why is it gets so in insanely upset with abbey and just in general of of where his mind is at now when you have that scene of when she's arguing with him let me go off to save owen so i think it it that's why i like this uh you know the the the differences and the

Starting point is 00:25:02 contrast in the in the adaptation here and i think this scene just adds a whole new layer and flavor do you remember if the conversation that they were having in the aquarium between a mel and Owen was the same in the game. It was very similar. It was similar. I mean, in the game, it was about going after Abby, I believe. That's what they said here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:22 And she wants to go to Barbara. Yeah, Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara won, but at least left behind. Yeah. And it was the exact same line from Mel with the FU. Oh, and I think. Oh, right? I thought it was interesting that the, the, her telling her to save the baby,

Starting point is 00:25:36 then Ellie was going to save the baby. I'm very curious to know why that they chose to make that decision. I think only to hammer home Ellie's internal conflict about if I'm going on the right path. And then like, okay, now there's actual lives at stake here. I have the opportunity to save a life in the face of me taking two of them and then are just slowly putting the shirt back down. Kind of had her reality moment. But now, you know, she took out Jesse the pinnacle of good within the Last of Us world and, you know, see how she comes. comes to terms with that in the future i think it drives home the tragedy a bit more

Starting point is 00:26:16 definitely because you see that you see that moment that mel is a good person you know like she just cares about her baby she doesn't really give a shit about anything else and it's the reflect i mean in the game you pick up on it that like oh dina's pregnant da da da da da here you go pregnant person killing so i think they're they're hammering at home i will say though is the part where i'm sure i'll get the most pushback. I think the show kind of was a little scared doing this season. I think they shied away from stuff. I think

Starting point is 00:26:47 the quantity of killing that Ellie does, I don't really feel like she ever rose to the capability where she could be in her own. That's why it bothered me a lot when they skipped over her going into the hospital to find Nora because I feel like those things, those kind of physical moments add character development

Starting point is 00:27:03 via through actions. And when the time you catch up to Mel and Owen, it's like, Ellie's been on this like killing spree and it's like oh my god you're the one who's been killing off our people you're and like that moment that that that is not felt here you know and I think there's been a redundancy of the same fucking conversation about like here's what you'll do he killed people he's bad he did some bad things he did it because of me like man it's like the fifth time we've heard this conversation in this season and I get like I like I like

Starting point is 00:27:35 i like that dina has to question whether or not they've been doing the right thing in that moment then and you know and she says let's just go home and i like how that is a confession moment for ellie as well like harboring this moment and i i do feel like from the opening of this show to then abby monologing it to then nora monologue in it now ellie telling dina i'm like god we keep like we don't need a, I don't feel like we need to, like, let's live in the challenge a bit more. And I think this show, I think they've got a little bit afraid because you're dealing with something much more high stakes. You're dealing with return of viewership. You've got to hook people and producers.

Starting point is 00:28:17 You got a whole much other stuff that you've got to concern yourself about. I'm like, oh, shit, we got a hook then where they'll stay around because then I think this episode, unlike last season, I think this episode kind of got a little concern with setting up season three. For sure. You know, like all this stuff with the village. and you're like that's happening in the game sure but it's not as like keep teasing what's going to be happening season three just keep teasing let's have her get kidnapped by seraphites for some fucking reasons like let's let's keep teasing this let's cut away from ellie's perspective and go to isaac having this conversation i'm like i don't think we need any of that i think because they feel like that's their stronger hook to get people come in to tease the war than following abby is exactly it feels like it feels like producer hook notes rather whereas i think why the last of us game challenges people and exceed so strong is because they don't have to worry about that. They're just

Starting point is 00:29:09 telling the immediacy of like this whole thing. Say all day one through three is only Ellie's perspective and stuff happens around but you don't know unless Ellie's in the room. And then on the flip, Abby, whereas this consistently cuts to other people's

Starting point is 00:29:25 perspectives on every one of these days. And so yeah, I do think there was a little bit of like writer-producer feel. which I actually completely understand and totally don't blame them for doing that because I'm like I can imagine if they didn't do that I'd be going you know maybe they should have teased some stuff

Starting point is 00:29:47 and maybe I imagine I'd probably say like the exact opposite thing so maybe it's not a way for me my point of view not yours not theirs but mine is maybe it's not a win-win situation for me you know I'm a little conflicted because I feel that on one hand Because, yeah, all the parts where Ellie would be alone that are adapted from the game. They kind of skip over fairly quickly, the hospital thing. Even her getting to the aquarium, which is one of my favorite parts, you know, you're skeiling the boat, you're picking off the people.

Starting point is 00:30:16 Yeah, killing a bloater. When you're playing the game, yeah, they do a lot of that. But when you're playing the game, there's a lot of like, just turn around, Ellie. You know, the boat stops working. You're trapped here. Just turn around. Stop, stop, stop. And they're kind of doing it.

Starting point is 00:30:31 But here it felt a little more convenient, you know, like the journey to find the boat first is like, we got to look, there's a boat, but now it's a, and I think when you skip over some of that physical stuff, it loses tension. And I think those are physical actions. A lot of people like the movie Mad Max Fury Road, and I'm using that as an example. And I think John Wick is also a good example of how you get character development through action scenes. and I think this show kind of skips over that and doesn't recognize the vitality of action scenes of how action scenes can develop a character. I think they do it wonderfully actually with episode two

Starting point is 00:31:13 with Tommy, with Tommy, yeah. I'm like, that's good. Like capability development. Yeah. You know, and I don't really get the sense that I think Ellie needed that, honestly. I think they needed a show. show that with Alie.

Starting point is 00:31:30 Well, maybe an alternative to get that could have been, you know, her having to be in the position to maybe make them a little older, but have to take out that same kid that, you know, she thought was going to save with the seraphites. I think work with it. I think work with the fact that she's small. I think work with the fact that people underestimate her. I think lean into that. Don't shy away.

Starting point is 00:31:51 Like, you know how she wanted to save the other serifite with the serifite that end up actually having her almost killed? Yeah. I'm saying that put her. in a position to have to kill a seraphite because that would make her in turn more um i don't know just see the the complexities of of it's not good and bad but to gonna go on to your point of what you were talking about of the how action builds character it's for me it's like a tradeoff in the sense you know because in one hand the having a highest volume of of action the people she's taking

Starting point is 00:32:25 out does build her independence just built her character does heighten the the blind revenge thing that you know that is very prominent in the game but then the tradeoff for that is emotional impact of the people that she's actually after because you lower the number of bodies when she does kill the people it is it's more impactful because she hasn't killed a lot of people yeah but but i definitely feel you because in the moment i think for me in the game where she kills Nora and like her hands shaking and she's all traumatized him like you just killed like 50 of them why are you so traumatized by this but

Starting point is 00:33:02 again it was a more intimate death like get it I think physical watching someone fit like think of die hard when John McLean by the end is like fucking beaten and battered and bruised up that's part of the physical development of this guy and I don't feel like Ellie physically develops in that sense I think that the wear and terror of revenge mission should be something where there's a complete different like physical

Starting point is 00:33:30 appearance in some way and I feel I think but but the reason I can point out Bella Ramsey's performance is I felt like Bella Ramsey was trying to provide that I really do think I don't think it's in the writing though of the season and I think Bella Ramsey was aiming for that and that's why I really appreciated what they were doing because I thought that they were at least attempting to provide that so let me ask you this do you feel like it would have let's say instead of a seven episode season it's an eight episode season yeah episode was six five ends with her going to the hospital

Starting point is 00:33:58 episode six is like the die hard hurt in the hospital trying to get to Nora and then from the from there the season is the same you think that would have felt better for you maybe yeah I think maybe one more episode yeah because I'm again I'm trying to I'm trying to say

Starting point is 00:34:15 that like the action scenes are not because like woohoo I love watching violence I think the violence is a big part of the messaging no yeah I think this show does a great job of violence violence having intention violence having meaning but i i do agree with you in the fact that you know having her show the fact that she does have to be in a position to take these people out also that she's waiting over her head and then the the sheer amount of exertion and death she has

Starting point is 00:34:42 to um unload or for lack of a better term to get to nora would have rain more impactful which again another moment i i've said it like a couple fucking 400 times in this thing but the her trembling by the fact because that subtle detail shows oh she did some shit in that room that we are not showing you and it's more impactful it's impactful because in the game it's what it's clearly illustrating is she's hiding it you know like she's so much more vulnerable in this in this show than she is in the game and so these private moments to herself of shaking but if someone says are you okay yeah i'm okay you know when really you're not

Starting point is 00:35:26 you're like we know you're not and yeah we don't have the luxury of the game where we actually get the vulnerable moments with her in the journal oh that's a good point she's dumping it down yeah we saw we saw that's where you get all of her what there's a journal you're like four times

Starting point is 00:35:42 Ellie has a journal yeah are you serious are you joking or being serious that's where she writes all her thoughts and feelings about are you serious what's going on over the game this is the most mind-relly part of I've never It's your favorite game ever

Starting point is 00:35:56 I read every stupid letter Of when they pick it up These long ass made up bullshit stories I read it all I did not know there was a I'm mind blown And you didn't know that This whole time

Starting point is 00:36:11 I didn't even need that No I didn't even need that to love Oh my god She's so much more She's my favorite character I didn't even know There's this journal You can read her thoughts

Starting point is 00:36:21 Yeah you get such an insight on her mind You can go back and read all of those notes, but at the top of that list of the things you can read is her journal. Oh, my God, I had no idea. So, like, once they get to Jackson Day 1, you get to read about their journey towards. What? What are you talking about? You find about all the things that's happened in between. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:36:39 I had no idea. I mean Seattle Day 1 and all that. Oh, my God. When they go to Santa Barbara, you get to read about, like, her journey. You get to read our journey to Santa Barbara. Yeah, she tells you what happens. Yeah. I think it demonstrates how strong the game is, where you don't even, you don't even need any of that, but I feel like you know the character so well without even needing her journal.

Starting point is 00:37:01 That's why we were flipping out in episode one or two. Yeah, when she was writing in the journal, I was like, oh, she writes in her journal. Remember what she makes the drawings? I mean, I see her, like, do the drawings. I didn't know she's, like, writing down. You can click on it in the journal or write it down in between stuff. I didn't know there was, like, additional stuff outside of like her drawing. You just scroll left and right.

Starting point is 00:37:20 Oh, wow, I've never unpacked that. She writes poetry in there, too? Well, Greg, since you got so much time on your hand, you should replay the game. I actually agree with, it's fascinating. I'm trying to, like, pick apart, like, what I should agree with and what I shouldn't agree with. But you both make such strong points.

Starting point is 00:37:35 Because I do agree with you about, like, I want to see a little more violence. And then they could use, because of her size, they could use other intellectual ways to have her do, like, these violent things. And then also on your end, it's like, you know, you don't, we want to make her likable and also keep it at, like,

Starting point is 00:37:51 just the characters that she's going after too so i think you both make really good observations there so i actually agree with both of you in regards to there was a point i should have wrote it down there was a point that i did want to get to but i am now blanking but uh i just i think this but i think what the show is coming on though is it's it's creating a dialogue between you know whether you're gamer or non-gamer uh that oh actually i guess between you two are gamers but that you know what puts apart like what makes ellie such a fascinating character and i think you both are making really strong you know points on this i feel like there's an equal delineation we can make between uh game joel and show joel as ellie from both versions because i was going to be like

Starting point is 00:38:39 is it the same thing like ellie's game ellie's more broken and she's more more more uh part what was it what was the thing uh i said that uh joel and the game is more hardened and joel in the show is more broken yeah and i'm like to a degree i feel like le game game l is definitely more hardened for sure but also she she's pretty broken but she like suppresses a lot of that whereas in the show it's not it's kind of like coming up to the surface met with like the emotional confliction of what she's doing where isn't a lot of that in the the game itself so yeah i mean i don't know maybe she's um broken and leading with her heart whereas other ones leading from her pain yeah make your point

Starting point is 00:39:19 Andrew, I saw you write something down. I remembered what I was going to say this time I was smart and I wrote it down. I think to what you're saying, Greg, about like adding on those teases. Yeah, it can be distracting at times. But I think in the game we had the luxury because you don't get those teases when you're L.E. in Seattle Day 3, you're going to play that moment within a few hours. Here, we're not going to get to see this for another two years. So I think that's why that producer's not.

Starting point is 00:39:44 And you did make the point of saying, I understand. I think that's also why the producer is like we need to have these little teasies. we can hook the people for that are not gamers for, you know, season three. So, again, to Greg's point, I do understand as well why they have to throw in those teases that can be a little distracting visually. Like, yeah, we know that battle's going to happen. Like, you know, it's like cool visually, but like does it need to be here? Obviously in the game, not necessary because, again, we're going to be there, five, six, seven, eight hours. But here, we're not going to be here for two hours.

Starting point is 00:40:14 It's in the game a little bit. Or two years, I mean. She drives through the village when she's on the boat. Ellie does. But I'm saying, do you really see, like, here, you saw a blast? I'm, like, in the game, I'm like, I don't remember seeing a big blast or, like, stuff like that. No, no, no, no, yeah, you're right. Well, I am excited for season three.

Starting point is 00:40:33 I think they did a great job with this. I'm also excited to see the gamers reaction, which you can watch in 12 hours. You mean the blind reaction. The blind reaction. You can see the blind reaction in 12 hours. I saw in their episode six, they were like, oh, so Tommy knows about Ellie. you said that earlier in the season I know I was like in the scene

Starting point is 00:40:53 it was also in the full scene in the first season and I was like interesting this is a blind reaction I mean hey you know what I've missed I've missed so much stuff in first reaction so I'm not going to say anything we played the game so many times I think it was funny

Starting point is 00:41:09 but hey I I like Abby a lot I do I love Abby I my one of my My favorite moments in the whole game is when Leve says, you killed your family. And then Abby turns and says, you're my family. Great line. That was the first time in the game I cried.

Starting point is 00:41:34 And it was an Abby scene, not Joel's death, but it was an Abby scene. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what Kim Devere could do. But I know so many people who have played the game who still don't like Abby. Yeah. And I know plenty of people who are watching the show who have no interest in, like, getting on board with Abby. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a tall order. And to give you, like, give you, like, two years to wait. I don't know, you better, like, throw on more clickers and bloaters and shamlars and shit to get people hooked or something.

Starting point is 00:42:00 Yeah. We need the rat king next season. Yeah, you better tease the living shit out of, like, they did tease it in the podcast. I think it's going to have it. I think you're right. I think you guys are right about, like, it's going to be day one through three for the next season. And then the last season might be Santa Barbara. I think that makes a lot of sense.

Starting point is 00:42:16 Like farm life Santa Barbara. Oh, that's a good point. And I will say this too for Greg. Like I do remember him texting me when he was playing the video game when it came out in 2020. He was like, I hate Abby so much. I hate her. I hate her. And then the text kind of kept changing as he got further on.

Starting point is 00:42:33 I really like Abby. Yeah, I know. She's amazing. And like, wow, it's amazing what a video game can do to contrast how you feel about a character from beginning to end. Because we get some vicious texts about Abby in the beginning. I hated when they switched. First time they played, I hated it when they made you switch to Abby. I was like, what kind of bullshit?

Starting point is 00:42:52 I remember those texts. Why the fuck would I care to play as this person right now? It's definitely a riskier thing to do in a different medium because I have to expect people to tune in week after week for a character that you already don't like. So you have to establish quickly why you should like this character, why you should follow this character. Yeah, that's why they've repeated. Five times. What you told you? Once wasn't enough.

Starting point is 00:43:16 Four or four times. Remember, guys. I was thinking that. You're not that I do, again, fully agree with. One or two times is enough, but five times. Yeah. With the point is we get it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:29 All right, guys, you have anything to say before we got out of here? For the most part, I really enjoyed this season. It hit the emotional beats. The stuff that they needed to hit the main beats on as well. I thought they did a great job recreated. I love all the stuff they took the liberties on, adding, this is what I like when it comes to adaptations. I want to see more stuff like this when it comes to other properties being adapted. I think this is a really good stronghold for what Mazen and Druckman do here.

Starting point is 00:43:56 So I'm excited for 2027 or whenever it's going to be released. Yeah, likewise. I think 2 and 5 are absolutely. 6. Sorry, 2 and 6. Thank you for immediately knowing I was getting at. I think two and six are absolutely some of the best episodes of the entire series and probably my top two favorite episodes of the show. I'd agree with that.

Starting point is 00:44:21 Yeah, like I think they're incredible episodes of television. And so, yeah, even though I think as a whole season one definitely feels more complete as expected before we even started this season. yeah um and but i would i was still ranked season one over season two in terms of a narrative but like i said um in terms of adaptations i think they did more adapting this time around like more creative liberties which i enjoyed and i i think uh i'm still excited for season three and i like um i i liked uh i liked all the i think they did some stuff better than the game so yeah yeah and i didn't i don't think i said that too much about the first season of like oh this was better than the game but i think this is i think they did some stuff that is

Starting point is 00:45:08 actually better than the game and it is my favorite game so yeah i'm really excited for season three yeah i did i think they did some great character stuff overall the the things they adapt directly the things they changed and yeah i'm excited to see what they do for the next season are you guys are you going to follow abby do you care about the war let us know oh guys until next time endure and survive and we'll see you next season deuses Thank you.

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