The Reel Rejects - Well... We Just Watched AVATAR: FIRE AND ASH (Out Of Theater Reaction & Review)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, at that theater right there at the Disney lot, we just got out of watching, Avatar, Fire, and Ash. And if you are here, we ask that you do the kindest thing in the world and leave a like on this video. John, what do you remember from the trailer of what this movie's about? That's how we will communicate the plot. Via the memory of what we remember from the trailer. One trailer. Yeah. Jake and the fam.

Starting point is 00:00:26 They're back. They're still living amongst the water people. Corridge, he's still out there. But what? There's another tribe, and they live in a decimated fireplace where they're big mad because Awaz abandoned them.

Starting point is 00:00:38 So Corridge teams up with those guys and then goes after Jake again. Is that all in the trailer? I think so. Are you sure not combining the actual plot of the movie that we just watched? Or you actually,

Starting point is 00:00:49 because I'm like, I remember all that in the trailer. The trailer, we're back on Pandora and there's fire people now. That sounds more like what I remember. Sounds more like you. Well, you just rewatch Avatar 1.

Starting point is 00:00:59 and two, and I saw Avatar 2 twice in the theaters because I love that one so much. I didn't re-watch any of them, but I remember them pretty well. What did you, I want to hear your first thoughts on this. Do you immediately, is it one of the things where you have to think about it first, or do you immediately know where you would place this amongst the three? It's weird. I think I definitely need to do more thinking to come up with like a solid thing I would say about the movie, but I do know exactly.

Starting point is 00:01:24 It would fall at second for me. Like Way of Water is number one still because Way of Water has so much. tangibility and so much beauty and it lets you bask in that. This is a way plodier movie than that. So, you know, there's a little less of that sort of like, let's bask in the spirituality and more of like, we got some stuff to get done.

Starting point is 00:01:41 Well, what did you feel like this movie did differently than Avatar 1 and 2 and that you really felt this provided something unique? I could have said that a lot more cohesively, but I watched this entire movie with a migraine prior and this movie, in 3D, only made the migraine better. Oh, I can imagine. Especially for three hours and 20 minutes.

Starting point is 00:02:01 Yeah, this movie takes a lot of the gorgeous, you know, spatial innovations in terms of depicting the underwater biome, depicting stuff in the air, stuff in the forest. It encapsulates all of that innovation that really made the second movie sing, and it applies it to something that has a little bit more of the first films like plot sensibilities, you know, about largely military operations and colonialism and terraforming. yada yada yada so uh yeah it's kind of like split the difference between the two movies and you have this yeah i thought that even though what james cameron has said he feels like he can do like four or five of these movies this is the kind of film that does feel like it could actually end here and with what you just said about how it does feel like it sort of splits the difference in certain plot points and even some characters who weren't in part two but are here actually here or have more screen time than they did have in part one part two that's what i'm trying to say yeah so there some of them

Starting point is 00:02:57 we're barely part two another year more out of pack from trying to get out of it then you're going to be benefited but it so it does feel like it kind of has that book and trilogy effect where it does leave the door open for more of course but it can definitely end here what i thought that this movie provided that was different or at least was aiming for is it seems to want to be more emotionally centered you can make the argument that part two already did that stronger than the first one which I completely do think it did. However, with this one, there are scenes in here that do emotionally challenge the characters. And there are scenes where I heard audience members around me crying their eyes out at certain scenes.

Starting point is 00:03:37 It wasn't like the sweeping spectacle, CGI scenes. It was just character scenes. Or gasping in shock or, you know, applauding when certain people get their desserts. Yeah, exactly. And so that was part of the cool experience that I thought James Cameron was aiming for here, was to go more at the heart, to go more at the job. drama. At times, does it feel a bit manufactured? Like, okay, I definitely

Starting point is 00:03:59 saw this plot fitting like, yeah, an hour ago happening right now. Plassing tropes in there. And yeah, so like, because the dialogue itself is like, you know, these movies are not known for great dialogue. He plays blockbusters. Yeah, this one in particular, like some of the

Starting point is 00:04:15 I feel like he cared even less about writing good dialogue this time around. Or at least lofty dialogue, yeah. Yeah, there was even no attempt, but at times that lent itself to a sense of self-awareness. It lent itself to something that had humor that whether it was intentional or unintentional, it was at times actually kind of funny, you know? It's like we're more used to this world and the humor is also more used to being here, I feel like. Yeah. And in the

Starting point is 00:04:39 trailers, the new character, I don't remember her name, but Ash Girl, the main Ash Girl that you're seeing here. What did you think of her? She was great. I mean, her presence alone is really terrific and just the vibes that the ash people bring are really striking and dramatic. It is an aspect of the movie that actually the advertising, that first trailer, especially a lot of the posters made me believe would be

Starting point is 00:05:02 a stronger element. They're really going into the fire world so much as you just have these people now also to deal with. But a lot of presence and a lot of really fierce, vicious development on a people that we've come to know is relatively peaceful and communal with the land. Yes.

Starting point is 00:05:18 I agree with you, especially on a missed opportunity there because a lot of this movie, all of my biggest complaints with it was even though it does leave the door open for a four and five. And while I do find it strong, I would agree with you on where I would place it is that there are like scenes in here that I think totally outdo part two. But an overall film, I think way of water is a much stronger, more cohesive film. Whereas this is a little bit more bumpy. Yet it has scenes in here that I'm like, man, I'm really glad we got that stuff. And a lot of that comes down to Maine Ash Girl because she is a scene stealer. She provides a very unique type of presence. And she is given a good amount of scenes, actually, with Stephen Lang's courage that for myself and for many others walking out of this film were the highlight of this. That really was like, you're not getting this in any of the other movies like this. Right here is some truly different stuff.

Starting point is 00:06:12 And they're having fun with the bad guys in a way that I actually found quite delicious to chew up on screen. And she was, like, scary and kind of sensual at the same time, you know. We got the bloodlust. Yeah, yeah. And she brings out this other side of quarrage as well that, you know, scary and a little sexual. Yeah, yeah, he's going more native and more feral while still being the military guy. Yeah, there's a bit of humor about what they were doing with him.

Starting point is 00:06:37 That being said, though, it did seem like they just decided to repeat a lot of plot points and plot beats that you got from already the first two films when there was a whole door they could have explored. of what this means for a different type of Navi tribe who doesn't believe in the same type of God has completely different types of belief systems, but there's still indigenous people to this land of Pandora. What else could we do with exploring that? It kind of reminds me of a film that I just saw recently dances with Bulls. The main tribe that we're with, and then there's the bad guy tribe, and they don't three-dimensionalize the bad guy tribe. And that's kind of what I thought they had the opportunity to do here, considering what this movie is leading with,

Starting point is 00:07:19 even though you do get some scenes in here that I'm like, I'm so glad we got that. It did feel like a missed opportunity on truly exploring something special. But, you know, we get repeat stuff with whales and predictable third. We love that gone, baby. Predictable, you know, what's going to happen in the finale. Like, before the finale happens, you're like, I know exactly what's going to happen in this finale.

Starting point is 00:07:39 And it all exactly happened. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, you know, I mean, some of that is the charms of a blockbuster scale production and story, but it was something that I was taken aback by in this movie because I thought that the game we were playing partly with these, you know, installments would be that everyone takes us and really immerses us in a different place on Pandora. And this one doesn't so much do that, actually. The Ash folks are very much involved with the story, but you're not actually immersing in a whole new side of Pandora. You're actually largely in places that we know already.

Starting point is 00:08:11 Exactly. So there's a less of a sense of like a great reinvention or a great, leap. And I think that's one thing I'm curious to see how audiences respond to because the first movie obviously was so groundbreaking just for what it was. And then the second movie took that and re-contextualized it all over again where you got that same rush of like, oh my God, I'm seeing something

Starting point is 00:08:29 completely groundbreaking. This ground has been broken and we're retreading it. It just so happens that the work is still so top-notch that it's hard not to be dazzled. But you do I think miss a bit of that wonder of being completely shock and odd by some new

Starting point is 00:08:45 creation, yeah. Yeah, I would have to 100% agree with you on that because the first one has the awe and wonder, like even if you don't like the film, you're like, but the effects. And the second one, I won a lot of people like me over to this to want to see more. And it does have that wonder and the dazzling new groundbreaking visual effects. And I'm like, I'm sure there's that here, but it just doesn't stand out. You don't do much of that nature documentary. Like, let's just be in the elements. It's more, yeah. It's way more plot oriented. And yeah, there's not really a fresh new element beyond the motif, the look of the ash people to really set this one apart. And that does make it feel like a, you know, direct continuation of way of water rather

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Starting point is 00:12:01 challenging part because the way this Avatar franchise works is if you don't really care about the characters you don't really care about the story you usually get on board with the spectacle and the action scenes right this movie's dependence of being invested for this long really does actually depend on how much you like the characters yeah especially from way of water like Jake so you've had since Avatar want to be evisited into Natiri for sure and Jake and Nateiri are excellent in this movie I think Jake gets better and more compelling Sammore. Every, yeah, some of his best performance. Definitely. No, for real.

Starting point is 00:12:34 Like, he gets better every film. And in this film, he's got a couple of scenes. I'm like, damn, that's some, that's some, like, there's, there's a lot of emphasis right now with Avatar that these actors are really acting, guys. Like, we just paint over them. There's digital makeup. It's the real emotion. Real, you know, and there's, the thing that I still get caught up in as much as they sell me, and I know they're really acting their asses off is that when you do the, quote,

Starting point is 00:12:56 unquote, digital makeup over them, it kind of washes away a lot of the things that Actives provide for human emotion, like when you're digitalizing eyes and shaping eyes, eyes are usually the connection to the soul. So when you're painting over that, I feel like you still lose some of that human connection. And I'm saying that because Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana managed to surpass that big quam that I have with that. And I was surprised how still effective Nateri is, how much stronger Jake Sully is. But then you have characters that were introduced in way of water. And, oh, no, Quarge is always the best.

Starting point is 00:13:30 I'm just going to say that right. I fucking love Gorge. He's so fun to one. It's so fun. But there's two characters here, Spider and Kitty. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, three characters. Spider, Kitty, and the son of the bro.

Starting point is 00:13:43 Lowok. Lowok. Yeah, yeah. Now, these three characters, two out of three, Loak and Spider, Spider in particular, if you didn't really care for them in the last one, you're going to have to learn to care about the bee. But, yeah, especially Spider. For real. for real like so much of the emotional plot points when you're seeing people and i'll say i like spider

Starting point is 00:14:02 here way more than i did in the last one i like what's so i forgot us there low lock low walk i actually liked him in the last one i liked him more here and and what they did with you know 14 year sigourney we've liked her just as much i would say again it was i was watching it going like i'm i'm not quite as moved with the rest of the audience i don't know if it's just because i have a you know a powny migraine at this moment or do i am i just not as invested in these characters I found myself really compelled when like Jake and Tiri were on screen, but not as emotionally thralled when it was the other three that I just mentioned. I think it's just the jam-packedness because the thing about way of water,

Starting point is 00:14:38 as much as people argue about the length, I feel like the breathing room actually really complements the moments where you are doing like a bunch of plot and battle and stuff like that, that you know we have to get through. Whereas this movie feels like it's short on breathing room and it feels like it's trying to cram a lot in two, three, and change hours. Yeah. So I think it's mostly that,

Starting point is 00:14:57 is a type of movie where you'll get to Act 3 or you could get to Act 3 and start to find your brain sort of turning into mush just because there's so much and there's lots of places, lots of characters, lots of stuff that's kind of visually familiar from the previous movie. And so yeah, especially if you've just done a marathon, it might all

Starting point is 00:15:13 start to blend together because you don't have quite as much room to just sit and attenuate to the elements, you know? I mean, I did it in Marathon recently and I was like, this is pretty repetitive, you're from Los Angeles. It is. Well, I mean, you break in Ag 3 and a lot of the elements are similar elements that are being used in a slightly different way but yeah yeah so

Starting point is 00:15:33 it does miss some of that lush for me and yeah i know like the common thing to say is of course like the visual effects dazzling and they are but for some reason this one in particular it took me like more than an hour to just get lost into it i kept getting like this looks fake to oh that looks real but i'm aware that this looks real compared to how fake it looked in the last shot you know like i was i couldn't quite get past it and it wasn't until maybe the last half of the movie where I was finally able to surrender to what I was watching and I didn't quite have that

Starting point is 00:16:04 issue with the first two Avatar movies but this one really stood out to me and I don't know why that was the case I can't quite I'm trying to put my finger on it too the 3D is good you know the thing I was saying to a few people and I posed this question in a

Starting point is 00:16:19 sincere way is that when PS5 games look so cinematic is it an insult or a compliment to say this movie looks like a PS5 game. Yeah, one of those games were the cut scenes in the gameplay are the same graphics. Yeah, but it like it doesn't quite look like film to me.

Starting point is 00:16:36 It doesn't look like I'm watching a movie though because everything is so bright and clear like there's I don't know how to speak camera language that well, but the idea of like focus and shadows are not really there. You know what I mean? It's all just a big bright thing on every shot pretty

Starting point is 00:16:51 much. Yeah, it's it's it. So, but when there are shadows, I'm like, oh, that looks very, like, believable and real. It looks like real. Yeah, when they do very dramatic lighting, it really starts to stand out. And I think everybody knows at this point, like, oh, the way to get by with CGI is you put as much shadow on as possible so you can hide stuff. And so, like, it's really the most striking when they are in the broadest daylight and you can sit there and go, damn, like, you couldn't hide anything here. So you had to put your most expensive effects on screen.

Starting point is 00:17:21 But, yeah, it is a movie that has, I mean, an effect in every frame and you have less. mess normal human characters to help sell that to your brain without having your brain go, this looks so real and I'm aware it's not. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think your immersion will vary certainly. And I wonder, too, we didn't see this in IMAX today. We didn't see it in 3D. It is, as much as I'm not as compelled as I was with Way of Water, like, go back and just be in the world.

Starting point is 00:17:46 I am, like, curious if an IMAX scope would add any additional immersion. I mean, probably, but I remember when we saw Way of Water the first time it wasn't an IMAX. And I was like, man, I was still blown away. That's where. I was like, I just want to go back at me with Piacod. Just take me back to the water. Yeah, you know, so a lot of familiarity, a lot of, you know, like what James Cameron did Terminator 2 to Terminator 1, Terminator 2 was a lot of similar explored things, but now

Starting point is 00:18:13 amplified and added on and refined, I would say. And I thought he did that with the way of water. And here I found myself going, it's more of the same with some new stuff. This, I think, would be the real test as to whether the Avatar franchise can walk on its own legs just based off character and story versus that wow factor of seeing completely new movie magic that we had to make all this brand new tech for. Like, this doesn't have the same level of just, like, dazzling innovation that the previous one does. Not to slight it. And I do feel bad because it's that Jurassic World thing of like, the people always need more dazzling. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:50 But, uh, but yeah, there's just less of a thing to. bowl you over. So now the movies has got to survive on its own merit. And hey, you know, for a lot, these movies make a shit ton of money because I'm sure a lot, a lot, a lot of people, maybe not unlike the cinephiled or film community world, is this franchise, the thing that is

Starting point is 00:19:07 highly praised. But I imagine amongst audiences that I don't give a shit about anything. You know, James Cameron knows how to make a freaking crowd-pleasing movie. Yeah, yeah, there are people that love this movie, these franchise, and I love the last one. So I've kind of

Starting point is 00:19:23 Kind of like the first one. I love the second. And I liked this one. Yeah, I appreciate number one. I love number two. And I think this is really cool still. Yeah, but we'll see what number four provides us. Yeah, we'll see if there if it is a number four.

Starting point is 00:19:39 Because I don't know if this one will quite hit as strong, you know. But if you wonder. But if people are so in love with the characters and they're so in love with the emotion, if like, it's a testament that I've never been to an avatar screen to where I hurt people crying. So that must mean it's moving. enough people uh but yeah you know good themes about fatherhood forgiveness identity the next generation leading the way generational strongology and and again uh you know what these movies talking about strip mining and freaking colonialism all that good stuff i give it a 6.85 out of 10 yeah that's that's about

Starting point is 00:20:12 obscure rating as bad a he's at that just wait a minute three and a half out of five is they're sure and a half seven out of ten yeah it was pretty good yeah it's pretty all right but what do you think for people haven't seen it yet. Leave your thoughts down below. Do you wish this franchise would die? Do you want him to make the next Terminator movie and tell me why AI is a good thing now? Even though he's doing commercials saying

Starting point is 00:20:34 generative AI, that's a different type of... People did this. I thought I heard some news report saying you said something else, but this is the first time I'm hearing it out of your mouth, so I'm taking it for... I'm sure James Cameron likes a certain percentage of AI. It's just not the part that takes away

Starting point is 00:20:50 is authorial stamp. I'm sure. next avatar and he's like looking yeah i could really help me i wrote so many prompts on this movie all right i see you guys thanks for being here

The Reel Rejects - Well... We Just Watched AVATAR: FIRE AND ASH (Out Of Theater Reaction & Review)

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