The Reel Rejects - Well...We Just Watched JOKER 2

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Starting point is 00:01:33 More on them in just a bit. Ladies and gentlemen, we just got out of watching Joker. We're here at AMC right now. It's always a little nerve-wracking shooting these. They could kick us out or something. Anyway, let's give it a shot. AMC police from here any moment. While you're here, please go ahead and leave a like on this video.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Joker 2 is a movie that is a response to the first film. aftermath of Joker Part 1 that involves Arthur Fleck falling in love with Lee Harleen Quinzel is also a courtroom drama about should Arthur Fleck be put to the death. And it's a musical at the same time. I think we can just give our short opinions and then maybe we can start getting a little bit more specific. So if you just want like the short bite size cut, here it is. I think this movie is a fluctuating experience from interesting to frustrating, kind of nonstop. found myself, like, getting genuinely frustrated at times with the way the movie was actually

Starting point is 00:02:29 being paced and executed in choices they were making. At first, the musical element wasn't bad to me. Like, I understand the purpose of it. It's like the movie saying we're going to go into Arthur Flex Mine. We're going to explore the fantasy that's in his mind. There's a little bit sprinkled in there about, you know, the use of music to help, you know, harmonize your soul and help you rise above your struggles and things like that. Yeah. And I thought it was an interesting film of wow, Todd Phillips really seems like he has something to say about the way people reacted to the first movie. There was like a commentary on sensationalism. A lot of commentary that is repetitive from the first movie as well, which I sort of feel like is kind of the point with the way

Starting point is 00:03:06 how the movie ultimately concludes. However, the journey getting there and sometimes doesn't feel like you're getting from the movie. It feels like you're getting through the movie. That's the way to phrase that, yeah. The first like half hour or so. was like, I don't know what people were talking about. This is fine. Then after a while, I was like, okay, I'm sorry to get what people are talking about. In my summarization for my short opinion, I feel like there's a solid 40 minutes in this movie that's really good. I felt like, oh, this could have been one of those sequels that they did like 10 years from now where like Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix got together. Like, let's just do a 40 minute short film, like a 40 minute epilogue. Yeah, totally. But then a lot of it kind of just feels like drawn out and pat it out. I don't know. It also feels like there's kind of a disdain for the first movie. Which in some ways, I think, is interesting, certainly. I mean, the first Joker movie for me, one of my less enjoyed aspects was that it was so writ large. It was so beating you over the head with the fact that, like, no one is good in Gotham except for poor Arthur and maybe one other person. Whereas this movie at least bothers to be a little bit more nuanced in how it goes about communicating the question of sanity and these narratives that we tell ourselves in sensationalism, fascination with crime and the.

Starting point is 00:04:22 the, you know, nihilistic sides of reality and existence and all that stuff. I can see it attempting to make a more nuanced comment on all that stuff. And I appreciate them doing that. But, yeah, as a movie experience, it doesn't feel quite as focused, which is fine. They're both Rorschach tests in terms of, like, what they're doing. They're not prescribing you a message so much. And I like that kind of movie-going experience. I don't need it to tell me what to think.

Starting point is 00:04:46 But I do feel like the second movie is more meandering, and there are constantly times where I kept hoping they would go one level deeper on so many choices they would make most specifically the music aspect because what that amounts to oftentimes is you're just watching people sing it kind of a quiet voice which is interesting in and of itself did they do it in camera it seems like that's what they were doing because there's not much style to there's like no style to the way it's done sometimes yes sometimes no and it felt like for the most part it was mainly in camera yeah which would have weird mixing sometimes were like the music is very overpowering the vocals.

Starting point is 00:05:23 Yeah, yeah, it definitely feels like a kind of hybrid mishmash of the two. And again, like, there are aspects of that that I appreciate. However, as a fan of musicals, certainly, and as somebody who was looking forward to that as a device to further personify and explore. Could have been great. Yeah, the psychology and the insanity on display, I felt like they kind of dropped the ball on that. I don't mind them naturalistically and intimately portraying the music. But at the same time, once you get a certain way into the movie,

Starting point is 00:05:51 You are like, they're just kind of covering this like you would a normal scene. And like, yeah, there are a lot of great shots, but the music is kind of left to do all the heavy lifting. And the movie magic part of the musical elements isn't really that engaging. And especially for a movie that keeps talking about surrender to fantasy or face reality, I felt like they could have committed to the fantasy. You know, with the musical stuff especially, like fly walls of the set out, get an ensemble in here, really go expressionist with it. And structurally wise. I really felt like a lot of the time, the movie became predictable at a certain point

Starting point is 00:06:25 where I was like, oh, I'm getting into the scene. A musical number's about to happen, isn't it, it's going to limit the momentum, isn't it? Nearly every single time. Because the first one of the musical number thing was happening, especially in the first half, I thought it was fine. I actually was like, yeah, I don't get about the complaint. It's interesting.

Starting point is 00:06:40 And as you're going into the mind of Arthur Fleck, I'm understanding the attention. It does really actually affect the rhythm of the film, and oftentimes undercuts the scene that it's in, And sometimes it does feel like, what is the point of this? Why, like, why do we don't need this scene right now? Yeah. And I feel like some of that's.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Sometimes they're well justified. Other times you're like, I don't think we don't need this. Yeah. And I think if they really were 100% in camera with some of this stuff, it might read a little bit better. But two, the performances across the board in this movie, I think, are pretty terrific. But as, again, a vehicle of sorts for Lady Gaga and something that really pitches itself like, oh, this is going to be these two iconic characters, you know, meeting. in this else world that is this unique take the movie should feel like a duet and it feels more like an arthur flex song that happens to have like a featured verse from lady caca instead of like a

Starting point is 00:07:30 full-on duet between these two characters like as prominent as harley is in the movie she's not actually as engaged to like the core of it i felt as i would have hoped maybe some of the best scenes in this movie are when it is just walking phoenix and lady gaga sure talking to each other Oftentimes, those are actually the most effective scenes. Lady Gaga eventually does feel like she gets relegated to she's just going to be a singer in this movie. But there's plenty of scenes still. The way how some people kind of made the movie sound was that she's not really in it. But I'm like, she's kind of been in a lot.

Starting point is 00:08:02 It's just the usage of Harley Quinn eventually just becomes like she's just in a heart. There's fantasy primarily at a certain point singing. She's definitely. She's definitely in it. I wouldn't say, yeah, she's like not in the movie or hardly at all. But yeah, I feel like there's more they could have done to really. embrace the breadth of her talent. Reject Nation, I never really consider myself a sports guy.

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Starting point is 00:10:07 Get into Daily Fantasy Sports like this expert over here. Like Joaquin Phoenix, as always, is very committed and he does a great job. And his arc in the film, a lot of it feels like, it's weird. It says like the landing point is different than what they did in the first movie. But a lot of the journey throughout feels very similar to the first movie. So a lot of the time I did find myself going like, what was the point of this? And why is it immediately starting off right? Like when you see how the first movie ends, this movie starts off for like,

Starting point is 00:10:45 Arthur Flecks, like, immediately back to who he was before he was Joker. Yeah, yeah. And it's about him becoming Joker again. And I just like a different environment. Yeah, just into like a different way. I guess it kind of made, it makes sense though, because like, yeah, he's been beaten down and Arkham and stuff. But I was like, I feel like there's a more interesting movie if they kind of just picked it up where we're Arthur left off at. Yeah, like aspects of that are there and the whole debate about like, I think it's, you know, for, again, my complaint partly about the first movie is like if you take the Batman context out, it kind of falls apart a little bit.

Starting point is 00:11:15 And this, I thought they made interesting use of Batman-esque themes of like who is the real guy and who's the character and also, you know, Joker just as an anti and inverse to just like all of societal order. Like, that's all interesting. But yeah, like in terms of actually diving in and really making that debate and the, you know, fantasy versus reality like super engaged, it feels just like one of many little seasonings that they put on it throughout the movie. And the rest of it is you're just kind of watching these hypnotic montage bits of him walking through this place or being tormented by guards. And yeah, it's an odd kind of play on the first movie while trying to do some new things and winding up, I don't know, less propulsive in the process. Like the first movie has way more dynamic and way more of a build of tension and release finally than this does really at all. It's kind of this big thing that happens in the finale. it's like it's a big thing that happens in the finale

Starting point is 00:12:16 and I just went sure why not it's just like that was my response to it yeah yeah okay I just we'll go there yeah why not let's let's go there if you've seen the movie you know what I'm talking about

Starting point is 00:12:29 like this big shift that happens yeah and I wasn't a I mean I was like okay maybe they're about to maybe they're going to make up for a lot of the parts that were tedious to get through with this finale but there's parts about the way this movie ends and I totally see how we're going to be frustrated There's a little, like, kind of adorable Easter eggs, I think they do. It's one of those things where you're like, cute.

Starting point is 00:12:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of certain, definite, like, things that go down that are very much, like, for the audience. But I think, like, the very ending of this movie is certainly going to be something that I feel like it'll probably, I feel like this movie's going to be way more negative with audiences overall, not because of what the movie's saying, even though I do feel like a lot of it is being like, a lot of you guys took away the wrong message. Yeah. Who am I empowering?

Starting point is 00:13:19 Yeah. But I think it's the execution of the movie. Like the execution of the movie is just nowhere near as enjoyable. Like I like the first Joker movie. I like the first third of the Joker and the last third of Joker a lot. The middle portion, it's a real mixed bag for me. But overall, I really like the first Joker movie. It's very striking the first movie.

Starting point is 00:13:40 This one is. I don't know, I found myself, like, interested to frustrated, and then at the same time, like, dispassionate by the end. Like, I'm not even, I've thought, like, a last Jedi situation or something. Sure. Like, I don't think they needed. This is really one of those sequels where I'm like, I really don't think they needed to make this.

Starting point is 00:14:01 And I don't really feel like he had something strong to say with this film. I feel like the potential was all. I kind of agree. The potential was all there. The potential was all there. I like everything they tried to do. to get it all out of the way here. You know, like the cinematography is beautiful.

Starting point is 00:14:14 All the performances are great. You know, there's some really great music. There's some really great staging here and there. But yeah, the... Brandon Gleason's awesome. Brendan Gleason is great. Yeah, really. Brennan Gleason is a very effective, mean guard.

Starting point is 00:14:24 Yeah, absolutely. And again, like I said, there are aspects... Those courtroom drama scenes. Some of it really... Like, there's a couple of really good courtroom scenes. There's a couple of really good ones. One of my favorite scenes in the movie is in that. A scene that made me cry.

Starting point is 00:14:40 It's in the courtroom. There's a scene that made me go, this feels like, this feels like Joker. Yes. Like not Todd Phillips is Joker, like, which is just Arthur Fleck,

Starting point is 00:14:53 a sad dude. This feels like Joker. Yeah. But there's a lot of the courtroom drama that is a half-hearted attempt at reflection, and it mainly just feels like a recap of the first one. Like there's, I see what they were aiming for with looking back at the first movie,

Starting point is 00:15:09 because a lot of this is reflection upon that first movie's journey. But I think the writing of how it went down and the overall execution was just like, oh, my God, do something new. That's when I was getting, that's especially when I would get for us to do something new. The prologue of the movie, I think, is kind of a good metaphor for the movie in general, because the prolog starts off with a choice. I'm not going to spoil for you. But I really like the choice.

Starting point is 00:15:32 And I was sitting there watching it going, I'm so glad that they did this. And yet I wish that they had added just another layer of flavor on. top of this. Another layer of knowing sort of homage to what they're doing here. And I feel like so many things throughout this movie, I'm like, if you had just focused up a little bit more and gone a level deeper on some of these themes or some of these, you know, more out there sequences, like, then you would have had something that's just as striking and rousing as the first movie rather than kind of going back to this miserable world and, you know, kind of strolling through it. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:16:09 I think you can honestly just wait for it on streaming. I'm not going to say don't watch it. I don't feel like we watched this on IMAX, and I don't feel like the theater looks beautiful. Yeah, but I don't know. I kind of still feel like the first one looked better. There was something more visually striking. It's got way more rhythm in the editing, I would say.

Starting point is 00:16:27 Like there are a lot of really beautiful shots back to back to back. But yeah, it all kind of becomes the sea of like, I need the momentum of the actual pace of the movie to pick up some dynamics. Otherwise, a lot of. of it is for not. And I was telling John, this actually on the car right over of just

Starting point is 00:16:43 from what I was hearing from other people's opinions and I think it stands true with watching this movie is that Todd Phillips very much in the first movie is riffing on taxi driver and King of Comedy

Starting point is 00:16:53 is almost a template for that film. What? Whereas this movie, I feel like he could have used a template. And that template I felt was a good guide

Starting point is 00:17:04 for him in that first one where here this feels like something of the words I'm saying. I'm like, actually, this sounds like a movie I would be down for. That's the weird thing is because a lot of the intention where it feels a little bit more stream of consciousness. It feels a little bit more like half, like I have ideas.

Starting point is 00:17:21 But I think it definitely needed another solid draft before they actually proceeded. And hey, maybe in the spirit of the first film, maybe a couple movies that are very distinctly guiding the aesthetic of what this is. And, hey, you know, people know taxi driver and have come to discover King of Comedy due to this. You know, you could have gone back

Starting point is 00:17:42 for, you know, some classic musical or some classic courtroom movie. And there are little moments that make you think of stuff like Inherit the Wind or whatever it might be. And you get the sense that Todd Phillips is like a cinephile and a classic film fan as well as a modern film maker. Yeah. Just, yeah, you wish

Starting point is 00:17:58 that that would shine through in a movie that focuses that much more heavily on narrative and musicality and, you know, theatricality and all that stuff. Yeah. yeah um i don't i don't think the musical musical thing was an interesting idea i feel like they should have gone with a different choice in the end instead of doing go further just go further yeah i don't think the musical element worked out that well in this in this particular film

Starting point is 00:18:25 good performances uh but overall yeah it's uh not my favorite movie not a fan i'll i'll chew on it and probably be thinking about it which i would prefer to forgetting this immediately but yeah it's a weird thing i was it's kind of frustrated i'm like at a 45% with this movie but i would say i really like that 45 that that's the thing is there's some really good stuff in there there's a lot about this that i really did not just enjoy sitting through but there's a but the parts i did like i really did like uh but it's a messy film um but what did you guys think did you like it did they make a third yes definitely make a third uh leave your thoughts down below and uh

Starting point is 00:19:07 We'll talk with you guys soon.

The Reel Rejects - Well...We Just Watched JOKER 2

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