The Resilient Mind - 103 Year Old Doctor Reveals The Secrets To Living Longer, Happier & Healthier - Dr. Gladys McGarey

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Dr. Gladys Taylor McGarey is a pioneering physician, educator, and advocate for holistic health. In 1989, she founded The Foundation for Living Medicine, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to promoting the principles of holistic health and bridging the gap between conventional and alternative medical practices.Take action and strengthen your mind with The Resilient Mind Journal. Get your free digital copy today: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Download Now⁠⁠This episode is brought to you in partnership with The Icons by Motiversity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXi_ZdT8sQY&t=131s Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Resilient Mind podcast. In this episode, you will be listening to The Secrets to Living Longer, Happier and Healthier, with Dr. Gladys McGarry. Get access to the Resilient Mind Journal by clicking the link in the show notes. Enjoy. You are the mother of holistic medicine, and I wonder, when it comes to living truly healthy lives, why aren't more people living to your age? What are we missing? Well, people are frightened. And I was talking to a granddaughter who's in, you know, she's in the, let's see, she's 30s.

And she was saying people her age really don't, they have too many choices. They don't know what to choose. They're looking for something, but they don't know what to choose. So we've got so much in the way of stuff and things. procedures and whatever that it's that we confuse people and it's time well you know what i've been working with all my life is the idea of having people understand what healing really is and so we'll keep working at that and people will find their own way of doing it because it's a personal thing and what would you say healing is

All healing comes from inside ourselves. We have the physician on the outside and the physician on the inside. My oldest son is a retired orthopedic surgeon. And when he came through Phoenix, he was just getting ready to go down to Del Rio, Texas to start his practice. And he said to me, Mom, you know, I'm real scared. I'm going to go into the world. I'm going to have people's lives in my hands. I don't know if I can handle that.

And I said to him, well, Carl, if you think you're the one that does the healing, you have a right to be scared. But if you can understand that you are trained to do this amazing stuff called orthopedics, those of us who need that kind of therapy, really need that kind of therapy. But when you've done your job, then you, and during the time that you're doing your job, you cooperate with what I call the physician, within the patient who then takes what you're saying and what you've done and makes the healing work. Because if the patient doesn't understand what you're saying, if their body doesn't recognize what you're saying, if it just seems like they don't want to do it or something, then they may not do it and it may not heal,

but it may because they have their own process. but it's this reality that all healing comes from within us and all healing is based on love. That's the center of holistic healing. Love is the center? Yes. I understand you did your medical training during World War II. It was probably a very different time for medicine. And then you were starting this idea of holistic medicine.

And now, I mean, the term is well known. Many people practice it, but I understand that you were part of the group that even needed to decide how to spell the word. I mean, you were that foundational. Yeah, it took us two years after we'd started the holistic medicine concept to really realize how we wanted to spell it, because we finally came up with the reality that the word that we were looking for a root word was health, healing, and hope. that inner aspect of our being that had been totally ignored as I was taught about my body and mind. I mean, it was very important to understand my body and my mind, but the dean, my school sent me to the psychiatrist two different times because I kept asking questions that, you know, seemed whack-a-doodle. So, but the psychiatrist sends me back and I go back into medical school.

I was at the only women's medical college in the country. And we started with 50 students in my freshman year and only 25 of us graduated because the idea was we had to be tougher and meaner and smarter than men. So, you know, it was a, and. There was a war on. I mean, the war started, and medicine was reeling with the idea that their job was to cure diseases and to kill pain. So it was killing and a war that was holding the whole field of medicine together, and it's still doing that. And I think there's much more to it than that.

Wow. I mean, I think about those ideas and that they're groundbreaking even today, this idea that the healing can come from within us, that medicine can be about living, not about the reduction or the killing of things. I can only imagine how novel that was or how new that was decades ago. What did it take to be a trailblazer of these new ideas? Well, I just knew that I had to. I knew when I was two that I was a doctor.

My parents were medical missionaries in India, and my dolls kept getting sick, and my sister wouldn't let me play with her dolls because her dolls might get sick because my dolls got thick and all that kind of stuff. So in reality, I came into this world to do this work. And it's been a privilege, and an honor to have the reality of working with it as people have understood it.

You know, even after we started a holistic medical work, and I was standing in the grocery store down here in Scottsdale. And over the PA system, this must have been 15, 20 years ago, over the PA system, I heard the, the hardware store down the street announcing itself as a holistic hardware store. So I stopped my cart and I said, well, there you have it. They don't know what it means, but the word has become a household word. And so then I started using the word that I had been using, which was living medicine. It takes it to the next level of understanding what he lives. really is. The whole concept that life itself is what he heals. I think a lot of people

want to really hear that and embody it. Why do you think, because I think for most of us, that would be what we want, but we get stuck with something. What do you think we're getting stuck with when we're trying to embrace living medicine? Because we really don't understand our own power. See, I have this kind of idea that when God created this earth, whoever God is to whoever you are, is, he created the earth and it was beautiful and everything was in place and the way it should be. But then he created the human being. And he said to us, now you are the only creatures on this whole place. that have the right to choose and have free will.

So therefore, I give you dominion over the earth, and we, being who we were, decided that what he meant by dominion was dominance. And so we've taken over the earth and done what we darn well choose with it, and look where we are. So it's that reality that within us as human beings, I think that like E.T. who was reaching for home, I think that in the inner part of us, we're all reaching for our true humanity. And that true humanity understands that we are the ones who do the healing. The healing has to start with it. It doesn't matter anything if I can explain to a patient and they're thinking about something else that's not listening and they're not taking in anything. And they won't do what I'm asking them or what they begin to understand what I'm asking them or whatever.

If they don't do what they need to do as part of their healing process, they'll just shuck it off. See, I have come up with what I call five L's. The first one is life and love. Without life, there's nothing, you know. You can be a seed in the Great Pyramid for 5,000 years and nothing happens until love, which is light and water and so on, softens the shell and the seed opens up. and it grows. Life and love are one unit.

They work together. It's like a pregnancy. When a mother is pregnant, she and that baby are one unit. What she eats, the baby eats, what she thinks the baby thinks. It's a constant process. But that aspect of reality that is that baby that is being nervous, nurtured and grown within the womb doesn't really find its own identity until it takes its first breath. And then it becomes who it is, takes the reason why it's coming into this earth.

So it's this reality that life and love are one unit and that as we work with us, each other that way, We can really understand aspects of ourselves, but aspects of the world around us and aspects of other people, too. You mentioned earlier that sometimes what gets in the way for people is we're scared, and also we don't understand our own power. I heard that at one point in your life growing up that you were called the class dummy. Now, obviously that's not true, but it sounded like it had a significant impact on you. what was happening for you at that time and what did that help you learn well when i was uh actually before i started school i thought life was perfect because i was just running around and that with my parents helping their what they were doing and so on and so forth but when i started school

i couldn't read i i couldn't the not the figures that the nothing stayed still on the page. And so, well, and we didn't know about a dyslexia. That was not a term that was identified who people like me were. But so I was the class dummy. I flunked first grade and I had to repeat first grade. And the teacher called me the dummy. You know, it was, I had this deep soul wounding when I was in starting school. And fortunately, at home it was a whole different picture. But at school, it was, I just hated it. I was so afraid.

I was so broken. I was so everything until I started third grade. But my third grade teacher saw something in me that the other had not. and she appointed me class governor. And so I got to do things like take what we had done in our class and identify and take it to the whole student body. I mean, I could talk and I could tell stories and I could do a lot of things like that.

But I couldn't read, I couldn't write, I couldn't add, I couldn't subtract. I couldn't do school stuff. So, you know, I didn't really find my voice so that I could depend on it until I was 93. But that was in a dream that I found that out. I was constantly rechecking what I had written or what I had said, having somebody checked, say, you know, is that okay? I was that damaged. But when I was 93, I had a dream that helped that. So I'm thinking about you as a child with this experience at school that impacted you until you were 93.

And obviously you had a large amount of career success, life success. And I think about the students who are feeling that way now. Maybe somebody's calling them the class dummy or they're feeling like they were the class dummy. And it isn't true, but they're feeling that way. What's your advice if you could speak to those children? Well, let me tell you what happened in consequence. When we started the American Holistic Medical Association, there were 10 of us sitting around doctors sitting around the table. And as we got to talking, we realized that six of us were dyslexic.

So what it did for us was say, well, that's why we are looking for something different. because I don't know how I learned to read. I don't know how I learned to do the things that I, but there are different ways of learning and practicing and doing things when we begin to look for different ways. And when everything has to be done with a certain protocol and so on, we're leaving a bunch of children, a bunch of people out of the mix. because some of the smartest people around on this planet are people who actually were in my category of being the class dumbbells.

Because what made sense to other people didn't make sense to me. That's why I had to go to the psychiatrist, you know. I mean, it was crazy stuff. I got goosebumps as you said that. I feel like the way you described that. you know, looking back, you could then see how that challenge that you were working on when you were younger ended up being the strength that really allowed you to challenge the world and see things differently, learn differently through your whole life.

Absolutely. In fact, when I was in third grade, our class had a play that we were supposed to do for the whole student body. And since I was, and the play was the frog jumped over the pond. and since I was, you know, I was older than the other kids. I was a year older. I was taller. And I could jump over the pond. So I had the opportunity to take this play in front of our whole student body.

And I was real proud of that. My mother made me a frog suit dyed it green and all. So I walked out on the stage with full confidence. I was going to do this thing. But as I looked at the audience, I saw my two older brothers there, and it just threw me off my step just enough so that instead of jumping over the pond, I landed in it. And the whole student body just, they took one big, and then they started laughing.

Well, I started crying. I couldn't move. I couldn't get out of the pond. I was stuck in the pond, and the teacher had to come and lead me off of the stage. So at dinner that night, my mother was an amazing person. Dinner that night, we were at the table, and my brothers were telling everybody what a big joke that was and how funny it was. I was giving them the devil's eye, and they didn't care.

So, you know, it was just one of those things. And finally, my mother said to them, all right, boys, now, You've had your fun. What can we as a family do to help Gladys in case this ever happens to it in the future? And it turned out that really what she gave me was a tool to take these things. Because if you have stuff like dyslexia, you're kind of clumsy and you tend to stumble and fall. You know, I do that. I walk up to a podium and I'd.

tripping, but I've found that if I can take, like I tripped in a big, huge conference that I was doing, and instead of saying anything other than, I got to the podium and I said, oh, I'm such a drama queen. Well, as soon as I said that, I had the audience in my hand, I learned that I could take these, struggles of my life and make them into points of humor. And if you could get the audience laughing with you, I had my audience in my hand before I even started. So it's the understanding that these things that are part of our very being, if we can understand that you take what you have and you use what

you have and make the most of it. And that's the kind of lesson that my mother taught me. She said, make, her statement was, well, just make do. And it's been such a helpful thing. You take what you have and you make do. Wow. Dr. Gladys, so you're young, have this experience. It's scarring to a certain extent. It helps you kind of shape who you are over time, but you then find your voice at 93. I'm thinking about all the people out there who feel like there's something they're hanging on to that feels like a scar. They're looking for their voice. How do they find it?

How did you find it? I've paid attention to my dreams. Dreams very often gave me the answer or I paid attention to what actually was working in my life or something that called me. But it was a dream that gave me. I find the answer to it because, you know, I was asking people to help me with stuff all the time. But I had this dream when I was 93. I woke up singing and laughing. But I was kind of in the dream and kind of out of the dream.

And when I realized what I was doing, I saw myself as, nine-year-old Gladys coming out of the tent that we were, the family was in, in the jungles of North India. And I was going to do something that we weren't supposed to do in our family on Sunday mornings. And I knew that in the dream that it was a Sunday morning. And that was saying anything but hymns and pudgeons on Sunday mornings. I mean, that was all we were supposed to do. And I thought it was a stupid rule.

And I was going to not do that. and I knew I was breaking the rules. So I was checking out under the 10th clap. And my brother wasn't there because he would have reported me then I had been in trouble. So I ran up to the mango tree and ran to the top of the mango tree. And I'm sitting in that mango tree and I'm singing. I'm singing any old thing that I wanted to sing.

I was singing a caterpillar song and all that kind of. and stuff. And all that, but then I got to think, well, you know, maybe you don't know every you. So I began to doubt. And I looked over my right shoulder and Jesus was up in the tree with me. Now, I looked over and I said, ah, and he was laughing. And I said, Jesus loves a little children, right? And he says, yes. So then I go back to my singing and then I think, did he really say yes? And so I look back over my shoulder and I say, I'm still a little children, right?

And he said yes, so I went back to my singing, and that's when I woke up singing and laughing. And I realized that what was I talking about? If Jesus accepted me for crying out loud, maybe my voice was worth something. And so after that, I stopped doubting the words that were coming out of my mouth that I thought were real and were really important. But the dreams have been huge in my understanding of who and what I am.

It sounds like it speaks to the power of that idea that healing comes from within. I've heard that you have a mantra, and I'm curious. about this that never give up. How have you used that mantra in your life? Well, it started with my dad. And I remember being probably nine years old and I was doing something and I said, oh, I give up. And he looks at me and he says,

are you a quitter? And I thought, oh man, that's like being a liar. No, no, I'm not a quitter. And if I, you know, look back, there's Satan's, it's so important for us to understand what we teach our children. And these are things that were really brought to me so that I could understand the kind of life that I was going to actually live. And so, yeah, I had the make-do. I had to let go. I had to...

My mother taught me how to not take things in and say that was horrible. I hurt my feelings. And I could just let it go and say, Kuchmulwane, it doesn't matter. The things that you accept and really understand to be the kind of the

core you know i'm about oh 15 20 years ago i came up with the uh for myself a kind of a structure for philosophy that i was building and all the first l was life and love and those those two came together and i understood those but the third one was laughter laughter without love is cruel. It's mean. It takes families apart. It has caused wars. You know, laughter can be cruel. But laughter with love is joy and happiness. And the fourth L is labor. Labor without love is drudgery. It's you just got to go to work. You just got to do this. You know, too many diapers. And, and, and, But labor with love is bliss. It's why we sing or sing, why painters paint.

It's why I do what I do. It's why you do what you do. It's what makes our heart sing. It's that inner aspect of our being that comes alive. And we'll work five times as hard as we were when we were dragging ourselves along with the drudgery thing. And the fifth one is listening. Listening without love is empty sound. It just doesn't make any sense.

You don't understand. But listening with love is understanding. So these five loves, I mean these five L have been very helpful for me in structuring and understanding the philosophy be in the lives that I'm working with. When you mentioned that at the center of holistic medicine or living medicine is love, and you describe these five L's,

living, love, laughter, labor, and listening, and you kept relating it back to love. It really does feel like at the center of this philosophy is love. Yes, yes. It really is. Because life and love are one unit. You know, it's, you know, there's so many amazing things have happened in my life.

I have here a vest that I got from an Afghani woman when I was when I was 86 years old. And can you see it? I can see it. It's beautiful. My brother, Carl Taylor, who started future generations, was they were trying to get understand why the birthed, the death rate in women in Afghanistan was higher than any place else in the world.

And they couldn't get an answer. And so I was just ready to retire from my practice in medicine. And so he invited me to come over and spend time with future generations because he had the idea that if a woman could come and ask some questions, maybe they could get some answers that would help these mothers.

So I went over and spent time with 30 women at a time that would come and spend a week. And we rented a little house. and we could spend there. When we first started talking about it,

Dr. Hassan, Shukhria Hassan, was an Afghan woman doctor, an amazing doctor who had been kicked out of her family and everything because she was talking to men and whatever. Anyway, she asked the men of the village if we could talk to their wives, and they said no, you know. well then she said but we're really talking about your mothers and all well that was okay so we got

their mothers and they were really the ones we wanted to talk to because they'd had the babies and they knew what was going on but they didn't know anything about birthing they knew how they'd gotten pregnant but they knew nothing about what was going on within their own body and so the practices that they had were when they got pregnant, they were not supposed to eat anything that had calcium in it, like eggs and carrots and yogurt and so on. They just

were told they weren't supposed to eat that, so they didn't. And then when they went into labor, they weren't given anything to eat or drink. So you've got a starved woman, hypocalcemic, because when they talk to us about being in labor, most all of them would do this, which is hypercalcelsemic tetany. And they, so, you know, they were, so their muscles were in spasm, but they couldn't push because they didn't have the strength to push.

So someone from the outside would push until they push the baby out. so you ended up with a prolapsed uterus with all kinds of trauma to the body and the women died and the babies died and so what I had a little chalkboard and I had a piece of chalk and I was able to explain to them about the sperm and the ovum and how it came together and all just so when I did that the one woman said how many sperm Of course I had an interpreter Dr. Hassan was interpreting for me

and I said well there are millions of sperm and she said how many eggs and I said one and that egg gets to choose what sperm it wants and you all of those women put their shoulders back and they had something that they had control of But it was such an amazing experience for me.

These 35 women went home and taught what we had taught them. And within six months, the whole practice of Cetrics in Afghanistan changed. But as I was leaving the campus sort of, but I had left home, grabbed a bunch of safety pins and stuck them in my suitcase. Well, I gave each one of those women three safety pins, and they'd never seen a safety pin. You'd have thought I'd given them the moon. This was such a lovely thing for them to have.

And one of the women came up to the car as we were leaving, and she took this vest, which was her wedding vest. she took it off and she gave it to me she had worn it her whole life you can when you feel it you feel the life and energy and so on that's in this vest it was such an amazing opportunity

to take what you know the thing that we really understand and share it with somebody who people were dying because they didn't know. And this goes on and on, but it's that kind of reality that life really, really needs to reach out to other people. And we need to understand how life gets stuck. The Afghani women, for some way reason, were stuck with this idea and their babies were dying.

and they were dying. But when they understood, these women just latched onto that and they were, they've gone with it. And they're not the most, you know, they really come up on the scale. And it's amazing. The power of sharing ideas,

I think it's just extraordinary. When you tell that story, I can imagine that the impact that would have been for the women that you were meeting with, but also for yourself with that gift. I've had the opportunity and it has been an opportunity to sit in villages in India and be a listener. It's rooms fill of women about 20 to 30 who are asking questions of each other to share knowledge that they haven't yet discovered. and through that they start to open up new pathways for their families and for themselves and the power they feel from that and the opportunities that come from that I have a sense for what that feels like what women learn they teach it's within us we do that we teach our children

but we also teach the world so it's really important for the women of the country to understand things. And, you know, what an amazing opportunity I had. The gift that I was given with this best just identifies the gift that we shared as women for that one week while we were doing the work that was there. What a privilege. what women learn they teach wow and and you've been a teacher you've you've been a doctor but you've been writing books and you've just put out a new book the the well-lived life where

you share six secrets what do you hope people learn from that book i hope they really understand about love being the teacher and love being the essence of healing. And I also, you know, we have this horrible thing in our country where young men are going and shooting their classmates and so on. I think it's a horrible thing that's happening. And I kind of think that maybe these young men are, are people who have never understood about love and death. You know, you can watch a TV or a program,

and your hero is alive one day, but he dies in the program, and then the next day he's laughing, and then he dies, and then the next day and he dies, you know. He always comes back, so maybe they never experienced a death of a pet or a death of a family member. But maybe, maybe some of them have never experienced really love.

And so if they don't understand the whole process of life and love, they don't understand that when they shoot somebody, they're killing something very, very important. I think that if that's so, you know, If a child has never experienced love, then it's sort of like if you have a friend who has been blind since birth, and you try to teach them about the color green, they can't understand it because they've never experienced it. if a child has never experienced love and death, how are they going to understand what they're doing, what these acts really are?

I think that if we put dogs as guardian dogs in classrooms, we might be able to help these children to do something about this spot in their psyche, which has never been healed. If they had a dog in the classroom, that dog would teach them about love. It wouldn't come up to the child if the child was afraid of them. But the moment the child reached out to them, that dog would be right there with them. And then if that dog died, they would understand. It's a whole idea of having living beings in our care and working with them so that the children who are damaged this way.

I don't know that my theory is correct, but if that has something to do with it, I think it would be a wonderful thing to put guardian dogs in classrooms. You'd have a whole new profession. you know, to do this. Anyway, I throw that out someplace along the line, somebody's going to get that idea, and I think we're going to be able to do it. I think it's the most beautiful and radical idea. I mean, it feels like that's what you've shared your whole career,

beautiful and radical ideas, this notion that medicine could be flipped, from killing to living, that we could put love in the center of it, and we could recognize that the healing comes from the inside. I think these messages are just transcendent. And not be afraid of love. You know, it's the very essence of our being.

And if we can accept it and share it and not try to, you know, you can't save it. It's an energy. You don't save energy. You have to use it. If you don't use it, it dies. What are your habits and your routine? and your rituals that have allowed you to stay so mentally and physically sharp? Well, one thing was when I had this house built,

I'd had my bedroom built upstairs, so I'd have to go upstairs every night to go to bed. And that's been a good thing. I go up and down my steps. It's been very helpful because I understand the importance of movement. I understand the importance of walk. I try very hard to walk 3,800 steps in my little house here with my walker because I think it's very, very important to walk. I get up in the morning and I do my little prayer and then I each race,

and bran and prunes for breakfast and with lactose-free milk and, you know, and then my day starts. And it depends on where I am in the process of my life as to what I do. You know, when I was practicing medicine, I went to work and did that. but now I've got it. I'm busy. I'm talking to you. I'll be talking to somebody else this afternoon. And it's because I think that I still have a message.

I don't think. I know I still have a message to share with people because people are scared and they're confused. And they're reaching for what I call. our true humanity like ET was reaching for home. Within us is the real knowing of who we as human beings are. And we're trying to be that. And so if we can find ways in which we can understand this for ourselves, pay attention to your dreams.

pay attention to what as far as what you eat what is it that makes you feel good i have a son that can't eat garlic well the rest of us all love garlic but you don't want to be around him if he's eating garlic you know it's just the the reality that our bodies know what we can do and how we can uh if we pay attention to having our food as fresh as possible uncontaminated with chemicals and things as possible. But sometimes there are people living in this world who you just have to have a scrap of a crumb of bread. You know, I'm just grateful to have food.

So I'm grateful to have food and I'm grateful that I can get fresh fruits and fresh vegetables and so on because that's what I choose. because it makes me feel better. And then we need a community. We need to, my spirit needs to bear witness with thy spirit. We need to let the energy of our being move and help. And as we help others, we help ourselves.

It's that life flow that is so exciting. I agree. You've got messages to share. I think about, if I kind of think about some of the audience that watches our videos, 20-year-olds, that would be feeling a lot of the emotions that you've described. They're excited about a life that's ahead of them, but they're scared. They may be holding on to scars that have come from some part of their upbringing. What advice do you have for people who are about 20 years old right now? try to find joy and happiness. Find something that makes you laugh, really gutting laugh, not something mean, but something that really makes you feel like, oh, that's really, really funny. And look for that kind of a reality in your lives.

And then spend time looking for what I call the light. You know, I kind of see myself walking along with a flashlight in the dark on my path and it's dark. And I can just go as far as my flashlight takes me. But as I'm walking along, sometimes there's a on the side of the path. There's a light that is not very bright. It's just kind of shimmering. If I shine my light over there, all of a sudden that light becomes great. In other words, as we reach out for each other, as we're walking along,

and we see someone else who's struggling, and we reach over just with whatever we have. You know, my mother's make do, whatever there is there, whatever the, the, uh, opportunity is and you use it and you work forward with it. You're you're helping people in ways that you know not. I hope 20 year olds can hear that. I hope a lot of others can hear that too. I think that's really powerful. And I think as we've kind of gone through this conversation, some of these lessons that have emerged that feel timeless. I understand that you had a chance. to meet one of history's greatest teachers. You met Gandhi at one point.

Can you tell me a little bit about that? I was 10 years old. We were leaving India to come to the States because every six and a half years, my parents had a furlough where they were able to come home and meet with their families and so on and then go back out to India.

But we were in the train and leaving Rurke to go to Bombay and I was really sad because I didn't want to leave India, and I knew I had to, and so I'm sitting in the train with my face plastered against the window, really looking out. And there were huge, in India, there are always crowds of people. Well, there were crowds of people here,

but there was a man walking in front of this crowd, and he had an Adhoti and a staff, and I recognized him as Gandhi, and he was just walking along and when he came into my sight, not right up at my window at all

but my line of vision is what I'm coming and he reached down, a little girl was handing him a flower. He took the flower and as he looked up, he looked straight into my eyes and

I looked into his and something happened. I can't explain to you what happened. I can't explain to anybody. I can't even explain it to myself. But I felt a connection of love that was really, really important to me. And so that was just a moment. I watched him go on with the salt march that he was doing and so on. Thirty years later, my parents were working with Gandhi as India was torn apart with the partition. Hindus and Mohammedans killing each, it was just awful. And my parents had their little medical Jeep and they took it around to camps and did what they could.

But when Gandhi was speaking, my dad would get up on the platform with them and they would talk together to the people and and Gandhi and my my mother and father formed a friendship that was my dad my Gandhi gave my mother a cashmary blue shawl and my dad a punny put blanket in other words it was a close enough relationship in the family that this was being done the the exchange of gifts as a symbol of the respect that they had for each other. And so I feel that that love was, that spark was started when I was 10 years old, and our family connection kept that going. So it's that

It's recognizing when something like that happens You know and and not poo-pooing Not not shoving it under the carpet and say oh well that was just then you know Because those are the things happen I've I've looked at People sometimes and been able to feel that with them And I don't even know who they are you know I recognized Gandhi, but there are a lot of people that are walking around who seem lost and so on.

And if you can smile at them and speak to them and recognize them, people are waiting to be recognized. And that's what Gandhi did when he looked at me and I looked at him. I recognized him and he recognized me. And that's still with me. but this ability to really recognize each other as real people, living beings that are in the same world as we are, that love flows. And love has to keep on flowing or it dies.

We have to reach to each other. I've read a quote of yours. It's hard to put a size on things that happen in your life. life. And I'm thinking of this 10-year-old who sees Gandhi and Gandhi sees them and truly sees them. And you feel this connection of love. And then I'm hearing you talk about love as the center of your life's work that has spent for seven decades of professional work. Right, right. Wow.

Yes, thank you for repeating that for me. What do you hope your legacy is? That love is what really matters in long. long-go-rower, it's what really matters. You know, I was talking to one of the hospital, one of the people who runs these hospitals, and he said to me, well, I don't know how to coordinate the osteopath, the naturopath, the different, and he went through the different modalities of medicine that are first showing up. And I said to him, well, you know, I don't think it's the modality that's the most important.

I think the way that modality is used. If it's used with love, it'll bring healing. If it's not used with love, it'll just fix something. And fixing something doesn't always heal it. So it's that reality that love, when you get down to the basic center aspect of what healing is all about, it's about love and life. Love and life keep us alive and keep us healthy or sick because everything is that some of the sicknesses that we have are our big teachers. look what dyslexia did for me and other holistic doctors. Thank you for tuning in.

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