The Resilient Mind - How Transcendental Meditation Transforms Your Brain - Dr. Tony Nader

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Watch the full video interview on the new Resilient Mind YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rELtMa2HkEIn this episode, we sit down with Dr. Tony Nader, a Harvard and MIT-trained neuroscientist, medical doctor, and the successor to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi as the head of the Transcendental Meditation movement. Dr. Nader takes us on a journey into the nature of consciousness, explaining how it shapes our reality and how we can expand it to live a more fulfilling life. He shares his personal story of how he transitioned from a career in medicine and neuroscience to dedicating his life to the practice and teaching of Transcendental Meditation.Connect with Dr. Nader:Website: https://www.tm.org/Resources: https://linktr.ee/DrtonynaderFollow: https://www.youtube.com/@DrTonyNaderSubscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@meditationchannelTake action and strengthen your mind with The Resilient Mind Journal. Get your free digital copy today: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/Download_Journal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Resilient Mind Podcast. In this episode, you will be listening to how transcendental meditation transforms your brain with Dr. Tony Nader. This episode is also available in video. Watch it on YouTube by clicking the link in the show notes. Enjoy. I was always interested to understand what we are all about, why we are here, where we're going, how we make our decisions.

Dr. Tony Nader is in just a Harvard and M.I. trained neuroscientist, he's also a medical doctor and internationally recognized Vedic scholar. Personally appointed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of Transcendental Meditation, Dr. Neda was chosen as his successor to lead this world movement. Consciousness from a simple definition is the ability to be aware, to be conscious. There are different levels of consciousness. So I can be drowsy, I can be alert, or I can be hallucinating. Talking about Transcendental Meditation,

how does it differ from regular meditation? If you can think, you can meditate. It's just as simple as done. Those who practice Transcendental Meditation, even if they had heart disease, they survive 66% more survival than those who don't practice transcendental meditation. Great world leaders such as those you mentioned and others, a practice transcendental meditation because it gives them that inner strength,

inner clarity and creativity. There are more than 700 scientific research studies that have demonstrated the effectiveness of transcendental meditation on mind, health, the body, behavior, and even on the surrounding of people who practice meditation because we create an effect. So today, we are super excited on the resilient mind to be exploring the tools, strategies, and wisdom

that unlock the power of the mind and delve into human potential. Today's guest is a true visionary at the intersect of science and spirituality. Dr. Tony Neda is in just a Harvard and MIT-trained neuroscientist. He's also a medical doctor and an internationally recognized Vedic scholar. But what truly sets him apart is his role as a global leader of Transcendental Meditation Movement,

guiding programs in over 100 countries, and helping millions of people reclaim their peace, clarity, and inner power. Personally appointed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of Transcendental Meditation, Dr. Neda was chosen as his successor to lead this world, movement, not just for his scientific accomplishments, but for his deep mastery of both modern neuroscience and timeless Vedic wisdom. In this episode, we are diving into how transcendental meditation is transforming the landscape of mental wellness, why more and more leaders are

turning to transcendental meditation to enhance performance and resilience, and what the latest science says about how meditation physically changes the brain. If you've ever wondered how to tap into deeper states of calm, clarity, and creativity, this conversation will open a powerful door. Let's welcome Dr. Tony Neda to the show. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sembana. That's beautiful to be with you. I am super excited because I was looking forward to this interview. And so let's jump right in and talk a little bit about yourself, before we jump into what transcendental meditation is, how you got into this. how you got into neuroscience and what you're hoping to accomplish with your teachings.

Thank you. I was always interested to understand what we are all about, what is human life about, why we are here, where we're going, how we make our decisions, and what allows us to feel happy and to grow in life. And so I at the same time saw a lot of pain and suffering around, and fails like why people do what they do, why do they come in this world, why do they suffer, and what makes them be able to surmount difficulties and problems and be happy and feel fulfilled. So as part of my family tradition,

I took medical studies as my vocation, hoping at the same time to help people from the medical perspective and at the same time be able to understand. for myself how we work as humans, what makes us what we are. At the same time, I was thinking about the mind, and I had a strong belief that the mind and the body are as if different, that there is something happening in the mind that is more subjective, more personal, and that we can even from the mind level develop what's happening in the physiology. So I did some studies at the end of my medical school in psychiatry, but even before that, I looked for techniques of the mind.

So I looked at yoga and different meditation programs and was lucky to find transcendental meditation, which has personally helped me a lot to dive deep within myself and to find something more stable, more clear and a greater platform of being, of ability to experience something from a different perspective. But I continued my studies and psychiatry didn't convince me very much. It was mostly dealing with medicines and drugs and generally people who are quite imbalanced, unfortunately, and they need help, and which is great. But I was looking more for some dimension of growth for not just those who have problems and deep problems of mental issues, but those who are considered normal, but they are not fulfilling, you know, or living a life or fulfilling

their destiny or like that. So I thought maybe I do research. So I went, I was lucky to be accepted at MIT, where I did research in brain and cognitive science and got a PhD there. At the same time, I was at Harvard at Massachusetts General Hospital in neurology. And I was continuing to practice transcendental meditation. So gradually I got into the interest of the mind, the power of the mind to change things because there were many scientific research studies on how transcending or using this technique, transcendental meditation improves health, improves well-being, etc. So I felt to go more into that direction and explore that field. First I sought for a short time, while I'm in my medical studies and research.

And then it became so passionate, so perfect, so great in terms of its results and effects and understanding about life and living and purpose and really feeling so good that I thought maybe if I go in that direction longer, I can help people more and I can support myself from my, you know, direction of growth and purpose and achievement more. And the past has been really the journey has been absolutely wonderful. And therefore I devoted myself completely to spreading and disknowledge and inspiring people to do something from such a simple level, which is our mind, that can improve all aspects of life. So that's my story and a few words.

That is fascinating. And before we jump into those techniques and more about Transcendental Meditation, one of the things that I guess would be a good starting point is talking in general about this thing called consciousness. Because ultimately all these tools and strategies we are talking about aims at altering, expanding our consciousness. So I do know that you've got your book. Consciousness is all that there is. So how would you define consciousness? Consciousness from a simple definition is the ability to be aware, to be conscious.

And there are many, many definitions, and people look at it from different perspectives. And that is why sometimes there is an understanding and confusion and sometimes conflict and understanding what consciousness is. There is consciousness like a human consciousness where you say I am aware. So when I am asleep, maybe you think I'm not a conscious being anymore. I am not conscious because when I'm asleep, there are things I'm not conscious of. When I am dreaming, I am in a state where I am conscious of things that are illusions that are not real. But as if my brain, my mind creates some imaginary phenomena, and I believe that they are real. Even when I am conscious and awake, there are different levels of consciousness.

So I can be drowsy, I can be alert, or I can be hallucinating. You know, I've seen this in psychiatric patients, but also when people take drugs, some kinds of drugs, they see things and they experience things, which actually physically, don't seem to exist. And therefore, the brain, the chemistry of the brain, the activity of the brain creates a situation where what appears to be real is different in different states of consciousness. And that is a big question about then, again, re-questioning what is consciousness. So I have a different definition of consciousness. I see consciousness as anything that feels, detects, senses, reacts to anything else.

And the level of feeling, sensing, and detecting, and responding is on a huge range from a simple response that can be a reflex response or can be automatic response to a very clear, defined, well-thought ideas and decision-making that are well organized, which take into consideration, present, past, and future, the individual and society. And the broader, the broader is consciousness, the vaster it is. The more you take into consideration more and more factors from the environment, from the world, from your future, present, past, you expand your awareness to think long term, to think wider,

And so consciousness, therefore, can be simple as, for example, a stone falling. The stone is responding to gravity. It has no choice. It has no sense of cells. It has no thinking. It has no feeling. It has nothing of that. Yet, its response to gravity is a meager, minor, tiny aspect of consciousness.

So consciousness is on a range from almost nothing, like in a sense. stone. Two plants, for example, that respond to the sunlight or to the humidity and the earth and they send their roots and they adjust to their situation and they even collaborate with each others, which is, there is a very interesting research about that. To animals who have a life, who have, you know, desires, who have, you know, who think, who run, who enjoy certain things and respond to certain things and sometimes who are self-aware, they can recognize themselves, for example, in the mirror as being myself. We know this because if you put something on their forehead, for example, they'll wipe it, whereas some animals, you put something on their head,

they think it's in the mirror. They don't have an idea that's on themselves. So there are studies about how much consciousness can be developed, whether we have self-consciousness. And then you have humans who have higher consciousness. And their higher consciousness allows them to think of the future, of the past, to create tools, to be self-aware, to act as a community, as a country, to react as a world, to be responsible, and to have broader and broader understanding. So this consciousness, therefore, this definition of consciousness extends from minor detection, sensing, to a broader understanding capacity to solve problems, to create tools, etc., etc. And one of the things that just popped up in my head is for human beings,

is it the level of consciousness that differs between us that might impact our general well-being? Are more humans more conscious than other humans? and that connects us or affects how much peace, clarity, purpose we are able to find. Exactly. That's the main difference between ourselves and others, but also within ourselves. So one individual sometimes can be sleepy or drowsy and they can make mistakes. And the same individual can be more awake, more alert, and they make less mistakes. Sometimes we are stressed. So when we are under stress, we react. in ways that make us narrow in our understanding.

We can create harm for ourselves and others. And sometimes when we are rested and confident and clear, you know, think of the day when you wake up and you are well rested and feeling good. It's a different day. Everything works differently. Even a small problem happens, you can overcome it. Even a big problem happens, you can find a solution.

Whereas if one wakes up and is, tired, has not slept well, then any small problem can become a big thing. And what happens is you enter into conflict with others, you interpret things in the wrong way because your vision is clouded. And so even within one individual, there are all these different states and conditions and levels of awareness and consciousness. Of course, the same applies between different individuals. So different individuals sometimes may have a baseline of higher consciousness and a baseline where they are more grand in their thinking, more broad in their understanding, more engaging, more inclusive, more balanced. And others who are maybe under stress or strain, they can feel more complicated

in their situations. What's good is that there is a solution for that. It's not that you are stuck with a state of consciousness. We can improve our consciousness. That is the beauty of the system. That's fascinating. And I'm reminded about this quote that it's not what happens. It's how we respond about what happened. And it's almost like that part about how we respond

is connected to the level of consciousness that we are at in that moment. Exactly. And so if we can master how to maybe become more conscious about being conscious and use the tools that we'll talk about to do that, then our response to the challenges of life, and I think today we can pick different ones, our response to those challenges of life can be more adaptive than maladaptive. Beautiful. Every situation has these three components. One is the observer, the subject, then two. Two is the object, and three is the relationship that connect the subject to the object. And this is what makes knowledge and experience. It is not just the object. So when two people look at the same object, their experience of that object, or instead of

object we can say situation, is different based on their state of consciousness. For a simple level of understanding, even on the sensory level, suppose one is wearing yellow glasses and the other is wearing blue glasses or green glasses or red glasses, whatever. And they both looking at the same white page. One would say this page is yellow and one will say this page is, whatever, red or something, if their glasses are red. Now if they don't know that they are wearing glasses, they will be fighting because one will say it is red and one will say it is yellow.

Now who is wrong, who is right? Both are right and both are wrong. Both are right because they are sincere, they are innocent. They are just seeing yellow and red and they argue about it and they can fight each other. And if they are fanatics, they can kill each other because they believe that the other is not right and is going to make this paper. yellow and it's red, it should be red, and this is the reality, and this is the ultimate truth about what this paper is. They don't know they are wearing glasses. And so we all have this kind of glasses in our vision, even though it's not real glasses, but it's even more than

real. It is our filter within our awareness, within our brain, with our prejudice, with our background, et cetera, with our stresses and strains, but also sometimes with our clarity, our, you know, thinking and all that, that make us see things differently. And therefore, the way we react to things might be from the feeling level very sincere and very innocent, but we are ignoring that we are acting with colored glasses, with filters. And therefore, we have to be careful about our reactions. And what we have to do most importantly is clean our glasses, remove the filters, and then we would see that we can all see the same ultimate reality. And how do we, quote, unquote, clean our glasses or remove those filters?

It's by going beyond them, beyond those filters and settling down. And then the system, the nervous system has the ability, the physiology, has the ability to adjust itself. See, when you are tired, you take time to rest. And the rest naturally removes the tiredness because the body has a system to reset itself. It's like your computer when it's overworking and the software is going round and round.

If you don't reboot from time to time, the computer becomes slow and you have bugs and you have issues. So you have to reboot. And to reboot you literally stop the computer, and then there is a system within it that allows it to readjust itself. We as humans, we have a similar kind of similar system, of course more sophisticated, where the tiredness and the stresses and the strains can be naturally removed from the body when we give it a chance to rest. So rest is very important for healing and for readjusting and for being clean. in our thinking. Of course, we have to avoid, you know, certain things to eat the wrong things

or have good routine and good rest, et cetera. But what we have found is there is a technique called transcendental meditation, which allows the mind to settle down deeper than even the settling down of sleep. It goes very, very deep. And it's called transcendental meditation because transcending means to go beyond. So you go beyond the surface level of, the mind and dive deep into the deep selves. And you get such a deep rest physiologically and mentally that all the stresses get removed and cleared. And then this is how the filters are kind of cleared up and the glasses are cleaned because the body does it naturally based on its system to readjust itself. And talking about transcendental meditation, how does it differ from

regular meditation? The term meditation means a technique of the mind, something that you do in the mind. So if you sit and contemplate, you know, you're sitting and thinking about some project you have or about some philosophical point about love, about wisdom, about something, you can call this a meditation. In the past, the meditations used to be in contemplation also, I mean in some Western cultures and all of that. And it can include, you know, prayer. It can include all kinds of things. And recently there has been introduced something called mindfulness, which is like open monitoring, which means you sit there and you monitor what is happening. Let's say you're breathing. You take your mind to your breathing, breathing coming in, breathing coming out,

or you take your mind to some thoughts, whatever thoughts happen, you look at them without judgment. you learn how to allow the mind to think without being over-involved in the process of what is happening, just observing. Transcendental meditation is to transcend, which means to go beyond the surface level of the mind, beyond the thought of something specific, and to go to the deep level of inner being. We say that the mind is like an ocean.

on the surface there are waves, and as you go deeper and deeper in the ocean, it becomes quieter and quieter and quieter, and you transcend even the finest level of thinking. And you come to a state which we call pure consciousness. Pure consciousness is a state where you are awake, that's why it's consciousness, you are alert, but you're not awake on anything specific,

no memories, no thoughts, no nothing, no fears, no anything. That is transcending. Transcending means to go beyond. And so you go beyond all of that, and therefore the state of rest is very, very profound. At the same time, you have great alertness. This is why it's a state that physiologically and mentally,

completely different from waking, dreaming, or sleeping. That's why we call it a fourth major state of consciousness. That is really how different it is, because you could be floating on the surface of the ocean of the mind. You could concentrate, for example, concentration is also some kind of part of meditation where you focus on things specific. But these are not transcendental meditation. Transcendental is to go beyond and let the mind naturally settle down towards the inner self.

And there is a technique how to do it, where you learn a sound, which we call a mantra. The sound has no meaning. but it helps as the mind is diving towards the inner self, it helps keep the mind awake in a non-directed way. And there is a technique of how to use the mantra, there is a procedure, how to get the mantra, get the proper mantra for yourself, and how to use it in a proper way.

And in three, four days, you learn the technique. It's not like you take a long time. And then it's a do-it-yourself technique. It's a very simple technique. And I have more questions about like how to get that mantra, how to get started. But before I jump into that, what are some of the, I guess, research or benefits that have been found for individuals that did transcendental meditation? Like what physiological changes or neuronal changes have been observed? There are more than 700 scientific research studies that have demonstrated the effectiveness of transatlanticism.

Transcendental meditation on mind, health, the body, behavior, and even on the surrounding of people who practice meditation. Because we create an effect that is beyond our just limited body. When a small group of people practice transcendental meditation, it changes the environment, the surrounding. And people around, they feel good. It's like when you come to a place where there is softness, that people have been happy, and they are. are nice and quiet, you feel that serenity, that feeling of peace. And that is for real, and it can be created with people meditating and transcending. On the physiological level, the first research showed that when you meditate,

your breathing rate decreases, heart rate decreases, blood pressure gets normalized, the cortisol level, which is an indication of the level of stress is reduced, skin resistance changes in the direction to show that there is much less stress, much more quietness on the physiology. And then the results have been done on a more elaborate way to show, for example, things as survival rate. For example, those who practice transcendental meditation, even if they had heart disease, over five years, those who do twice a day, they survive 66% more survival than those who don't practice transcendental meditation and who yet are given advice for diet and daily routine and encouraged to exercise and all of that. So the difference is

really dramatic. And, you know, there has been research on insulin resistance for diabetes. There have been research on asthma, research on allergies, research on hospital admissions in all categories, is showing that those who practice TM have less disease, less problems. And for students, it's very powerful in terms of improving their grades, improving their behavior. They do better at school. They enjoy more the schooling and they get better grades. And this way, many, many performance in business people and companies that have tried it, the performance is really very much improved and the quality of life very improved.

Recently, we have done research on hospital staff, medical doctors and nurses and staff of the hospitals, particularly during COVID, it was, you know, many, many hospitals took the program. And transcendental meditation reduced anxiety, removed depression, improved sleep at night, They were sleeping, all the medical stuff, sleeping better, feeling more resilient, able to face the situations and overcome the difficulties. And even actually, you know, doctors who are under strain and nurses, there have been lots of suicide. And even idea of suicide comes to some of them.

And those who practice transcendental meditation have found amazing well-being, resilience, reduction in anxiety, and the ability to face the tough situations. You know, it's also used in PTSD and veterans who come from, you know, war situation and who are overstressed. It's one of the most powerful modalities to help them recover, even more powerful than other and normally used techniques, including medicines and drugs that have been tried. It makes me want to get started on jumping right into it as well. Yes, don't delay.

And I know like there are high performing individuals like Ray Dalio, Opera, that also swear by Transcendental Meditation. And so I know you spoke about the benefits already, but what do you think draws these high achievers, these high performers to also incorporate? into their life. Specifically because they are high performers, high achievers, they want to do even more and better. And so they know the power of being established strongly in a clear thinking, clear mind, to have ability to make right decisions and clear behavior and take them to more creative

endeavors and be resilient and all of that. And so that is why great world leaders, such as those you mentioned and others, practice transcendental meditation, because it gives them that inner strength, inner clarity, and creativity. And many of those leaders, most of them actually, they face a lot of challenges and stresses and strain, even though they appear cool and calm because they have to be like that. They are the heroes, and they have to appear very calm. But they go through a lot of demands on them, a lot of challenges, a lot of responsibility. People ask their opinion.

People are around them to do things with them. And so this is not, you know, it appears glamorous and all that, but it can be also straining and pressure. And so from both sides to increase creativity, to alleviate the pressure, to always be able to be supportive and inspiring to others, they have to be strong within themselves. And that's why they find transcendental meditation a powerful tool for that. And for people listening and they are thinking, okay, this sounds great, this sounds exciting. I want to get started. And whether I'm just a school teacher, I'm a parent, I work like in the trades, or maybe I'm a high performing exec. What will be the first step for them to start either learning more or starting to incorporate this into their life?

They can go to a website called TM.org. TM is for transcendental meditation, obviously. TM.org. And wherever they are, they can have a teacher, hopefully not far from them, who can actually guide them to learn transcendental meditation. Because transcendental meditation is taught personally by a teacher, you cannot learn it in the books because there are steps of learning and steps of responding in one way,

then you get a certain answer, you do this, you get that, and those are very, very much personal. And you learn it, and again, as we said, four, five days, about one and a half hours a day. And then you are completely on your own, even though we encourage to have follow up and ask questions and check your experience to know what's happening. So there is an introductory lecture,

which gives you an idea about the benefits. And those who listen to your podcast, this podcast, They can feel like they had an introductory lecture, so already they have done the first step. Maybe a little bit of summary about the benefits, so they can see some of the scientific research, so they get convinced of the effects. And then a preparatory conference, which can be done sequentially in the same time, that helps to see what are we going to do, how we're going to learn, when we're going to learn, where, etc. And then there is the day of instruction where you come,

and meet a teacher, and then you are taught the mantra and how to use it. And from that time, you're already practicing transcendental meditation. So it's very simple, except you don't know all the details about what to do in this case, what to do in that case. And that is why there are three following days, where on each day you come and you get more knowledge, you get checked, verify your experience, verify the simplicity of the practice, the easiness of it to make sure you're doing correctly.

And then that's it. You're on your own. And these actually these last three days, you can do it on an app. We have created an app so that if you cannot come to meet the teacher, because the teacher is maybe a little far or something, or you don't have time to travel every day, you can do part of it on the app and part of it with the teacher or all of it on the app.

But the instruction has to be done in person. And I love that because I know on one end, people are probably listening, wanting to just watch a video and get started. But on the other hand, the importance of getting personalized information, a personalized mantra, because we all have different backgrounds. We've all had different experiences. The glasses that we are wearing to view the world, they're all different colors. So that personalization is so important. so you can maximize the effects that transdental meditation will have. So that's, I think, really exciting,

but also might require a little bit of mental shift for those that might be interested in just watching a video and then getting started. Correct, yes. You can't really learn it properly from a book. There are some people who pretend to teach something like it, but it never works. Our experience is that we have to maintain what we call the purity of the teaching. because this transcendental meditation comes from thousands of years of experience,

from the ancient yoga tradition and all that. It's not something that I invented or even the founder of the technique Maharishi Maheshiyahili invented. He took it from his teacher, who took it from his teacher, in a tradition that it's thousands of years old and that has proven its effectiveness where there is this very personal instruction that is required. Earlier you spoke about a mantra, and I'm guessing the mantra is what you get when you meet with your teacher. The mantra you said is personal.

Now, I know when I've tried to meditate before in the morning or before I go to bed, one of the things that happens is I fall asleep. And then I was like, that's what such a good meditation. It's almost like meditation straight into a dream. How does transcendental meditation maybe prevent that? Is it the mantra that helps with you? you're not going to that deeper level of consciousness so that you fall into sleep? How does that work?

Yeah, the mind will settle down based on its nature. It's like when you settle down and then you fell asleep, this was a natural process. You didn't try because the more you try, the less it's natural to sleep. You can get even more complicated. So if somebody has insomnia, don't try to sleep. Just be there and let your mind settle down. So the mind settles down by its own nature, and there is a technique where we use a sound that has no meaning, as we said, we call it a mantra. And that sound is like a vehicle on which the mind travels towards the inward values.

And the mind then remains awake in a non-directed way. Because if the mantra had a meaning, specific meaning, then the consciousness will be blocked on that meaning, because meaning means structural. and form and concept and maybe object or something. Whatever has a meaning is freezes or connects prevents the mind from going deeper and deeper and deeper. So the mantra has no meaning and it's personal and it allows the mind to settle down guided by its own nature and yet able to remain awake in a non-directed way, non-specific way, as it dives down towards more calm, more quietness, more quietness. And then actually you transcend the mantra even.

So transcending, you go beyond the mantra and beyond the thoughts. But these are moments where you are so deep and so awake that you don't fall asleep because wakefulness is very high. And for the people that are listening and they're like, okay, I want to do this, but my life is so chaotic right now. Like I don't have the time to meet with an instructor. I don't think I'll be able to do it. Or some people that say meditation has not worked for me,

will transdental meditation work for me? What would you say to people that might be feeling some resistance to trying this? The taste of the pudding is in trying. And the results really is so profound, so powerful, that, for example, those who don't have time, they realize that time is relative. and flexible, which means you can spend a lot of hours and achieve very little if you are stress and strain and chaotic, or you can be very clear and go right to the target and hit the target

right away. And you know that. So if the mind is chaotic, you're probably not hitting the targets because you're shooting around the bush or whatever, shooting around in a way that is not effective. What you need is to stop, settle down, dive deep, and come out effectively, and then time becomes much more effective. So what you will find is you will save time rather than lose time. So the time you spend transcending and meditating is an investment in time that gives you multiple returns in terms of time itself, because you're going to use your time more effectively and more efficiently. Now, for those who say, I cannot rest, my mind doesn't settle, it's because maybe they tried other techniques that force the mind to settle or try to settle down. And the mind refuses that and jumps around and is not happy.

In transcendental meditation, if you can think, you can meditate. It's just as simple as that. And every one of us can think and have a thought. And we don't need to have any effort. And the reason is we turn the mind inside in a way that allows it to go to very charming and very profound state of experience. For this, I take like a metaphor or an example. If you have a honeybee buzzing around, it's going up and down, right and left, making noise and all of that. And then suddenly it finds the nectar of the flower, and then it's totally quiet.

So when you give it the nectar, it settles completely down. And the mind is like this. The mind is always searching for more, for more happiness, more charm, et cetera. And since inside ourselves is the greatest happiness and the greatest charm, when we turn the mind inside, it really dives by itself and it settles by itself. If you try to force it, it will actually not work. That is why you can imagine, oh, I cannot settle my mind, et cetera. Well, you should not try to settle your mind because it will be harder and more difficult.

It will want to jump even more. Like if you want to stop the honeybee and hold it, it's going to go crazy and kind of bite you or whatever. But if you give it the honey, then it's completely settled down. So in this technique, we give the honey of the mind. And it goes to it in a very nice and simple way. And for those that are listening and maybe are parents or teachers, and they work with kids and teenagers, will this be something that they can learn as well?

Or how can they share this tool with people that maybe are not adults? Yeah, we have children. This is why this technique doesn't require any philosophical understanding. All that we're discussing is just, for our joy to analyze what is happening because we are maybe intellectually inclined, we are interested to know how things work, and like that, which is a natural and beautiful tendency. But to practice transcendental meditation, you don't need any of that. You don't need even to listen to me at all. If you do it, it works by itself. And so we have children from the

age of five who can do it, because before that, they are very, they don't listen. You give them technique for the children even the first techniques they get is open the eyes they would walk around and they they repeat they learn how to to meditate while even eyes open when they come to the age of 10 they sit and close the eyes and meditate for about 10 minutes and the adults meditate for about 20 minutes the those who are beyond the teenager and so it doesn't require any intellectual exercise or forcing or anything It's a very natural, simple process, and anyone who can think can practice it. So there are schools that have introduced it.

We've introduced it in different settings, even in complicated situations where schools have problems of unrest or students are not disciplined and all of that. We've even introduced it in rehabilitation conditions for prisons. and all of that at all ages and all levels. And it helps everyone to feel more settled, to do the right decisions. And the improvements in schools have been tremendous, you know, with better grades, you know. And you have over and over again research

and scientists and teachers who have tried it and for whom it works perfectly. And are there people that maybe didn't work for? has everyone seen some benefit? Anyone who really practiced regularly and follow the instructions have benefited. I haven't seen anyone who hasn't. But sometimes you have people who get so busy or who have their own idea about how meditation should be. So they try to modify it and they try to improve it or they try to concentrate more.

And they find that this lack of naturalness actually doesn't help them. And so that is why sometimes, because they don't follow the instructions, they might not be regular or might after a while not get the results. But if you do it simply and innocently, everyone gets benefits. And I think that's very important to know because if we don't use a tool, we are not going to get the results. And if you don't use it consistently enough, we won't get the results. So learning about it is the first step, but being able to apply it consistently is what is going to yield the benefits of this practice. Exactly. Beautifully said yes.

So I know you work globally around the world with different cultures, different societies. Have you noticed any common themes or differences in terms of how different areas of the world are approaching meditation or specifically transdental meditation? It's amazing how universal is our human mind and how similar it is. You know, we have it in all continents, every part of the world, large groups, you know, anyway from Northern Europe to the entire Europe to Africa and Southern Africa to Latin America, Northern America, Asia, everywhere, Australia, New Zealand, the whole globe, everyone, has learned it. We have wonderful schools in Africa right now that are using it. We have taught in the Maasai people. They absolutely love it. In Latin America we have a great

priest who is very close, who has very close to Pope Francis who teaches it for rehabilitation and they have schools. He takes drug addicts and gang people, he rehabilitates them, he teaches them transcendental meditation. They experience the bliss and the well-being, and many of them have actually become teachers of meditation. And, you know, all over we have in schools. And as you said, we have great achievers, celebrities, heads of state, all over the world from India, Japan, China, even, you know, all of, I don't need to mention every country, but we are in 150 countries, and we have centers everywhere, and everybody enjoys it of all religious background, all racial background.

It's a technique, a mental technique. The effect of it is so good that people see that it's not in contradiction or anything they do. To the contrary, it helps enliven all these aspects of life. And as we look ahead in 2025, maybe even 2020. what is your vision on how Transcendental Meditation is going to play a role in individual help, but also when we look at collective consciousness? It's a beautiful question because we need to settle down.

Everybody needs to go back to their selves because we are all projected outside, not all, but some, most. And they are like footballs of situation and circumstances, which means, football kicked around by situation, kicked around in the other way by another situation. And so people are moved by, you know, political divisions and philosophical divisions and beliefs divisions and, you know, economic divisions and struggle and all of that on the outside. And they really need to settle down back so that it doesn't matter, you know, what you belong to. But you can see clearer.

even in what you have, in what you believe, and you can see clearer. And you can see a way to overcome differences and overcome divisions, even though divisions and differences are beautiful because when they come together, they can enhance creativity and give new opportunity. If you are able to listen to the other, if you are able to see what's right with them and sometimes what's wrong with you

and what's, you know, right with you and maybe even something not so right, but instead of fighting, you can clarify it. You have the power to clarify it from a perspective that is calm and clear and harmonious rather than a knee-jerk reaction and reactions that are reflective, reflex-based rather than thought-based and properly wise and properly sought and planned. And so this is very important. And in terms of collective consciousness, it's the consciousness of the individuals that create a collective consciousness.

So if you improve individual consciousness, you improve collective consciousness. Forest cannot be green except if the trees are green, of course. So a society cannot be peaceful and harmonious, except if the individuals are within themselves peaceful and harmonious. And that is what we have seen, even scientifically, 116 scientific research studies have shown the effectiveness of the group meditation, the individuals meditating on the collective effects on society with reduce crime race, reduce accidents of the road, reduce infant mortality, hospital admission, you know, reduce crime of all sorts. And so it's very real. Collective consciousness is very real. And settling it, calming it, and experiencing a more profound state of consciousness

are also very real. What is the one key message you hope everyone takes away from your message? Water the route to enjoy the fruit. Language simple, straight to the point. If you want the fruits to be good, Don't just worry about the surface value. Go to the roots of life and put your attention on that.

Water the roots, and then the fruits will be healthy. If you forget the roots and just worry about the surface value, then the surface value will end up drying up. And the root of life is within us. Know thy self. Go anchored in yourself. Get a higher state of consciousness and clarity and awareness. and then all the outer values will be added on to you,

will be a gift to you based on your high level of consciousness. And one of the perspective that I have is that everything we want in life, success, health, are a byproduct of what's happening internally. So initially I used to think about that is like, I want this goal, I want this outcome. But once I realize, no, this is a byproduct of a specific thought pattern, a specific level of consciousness, then my focus in terms of how I was pursuing things was a little bit different. But I think that is in line with what you are saying in terms of what are the roots and then enjoy the fruits because your focus, if it's only on the external or on that result,

likely you're not going to get that results. But if you focus on actually what's important, which is your consciousness and your mind, then the byproduct of that is the life that you want, whether it's peace, clarity, purpose, happiness, love whatever that is. Beautifully expressed. Yes, correct. I agree. And where can people find more information about you, about Transcendental Meditation,

if they want to not only listen to this, but actually actively want to take the next step? We have a site called TM.org, Transcendental Meditation, TM.org. I have a website called Dr. Tonynader.com. We have a university in Iowa, which is a... accredited all the way to the PhD level. It's called Maharishi International University, and it teaches regular topics and programs, but we call them consciousness-based. So it develops the individual as it's developing the outer capacity also, developing expertise in different fields, but making sure the individual is developed as a primary level. So the individual

can live a healthy, happy life and be able to fulfill their desires while they are doing specific professions and exercising specific tasks and doing specific things. Of course, if you want to go deeper into the logic of how it works and you're interested in science and philosophy, a consciousness mind-body problem, I've written a book called Consciousness is All There is. It's a New York Time bestseller, and I invite everyone to look into it. But the practice of Transcendental Meditation is most primary. And to have more understanding, the book is a great help. Thank you so much for your insights, your perspective, your time in sharing your message around

Transcendental Meditation. I know I learned a lot, and hopefully our listeners have also shifted and maybe even raised their consciousness a little bit more so that they can develop that resilient mind. Thank you so much for your time, Dr. Neda. Thanks to you, wonderful to be with you, Simba. All the best. Thank you for tuning in.

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