The Resilient Mind - She Lived on $1,700 a Month and Was Happier Than Any Billionaire - Morgan Housel

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

Morgan Housel, is a tariff expert, investor and bestselling author of ‘The Psychology of Money’ and ‘Same As Ever’, is one of the world’s top experts on financial psychology, economic collapse warnings, and building true financial freedom. His life-changing insights have transformed how millions approach money, investing, and wealth-building.This episode is brought in partnership with Diary of A CEO.Take action and strengthen your mind with The Resilient Mind Journal. Get your free digital copy today: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/Download_JournalExplore tools from past guests of the podcast. Some links below are affiliate links, meaning we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you:💓 HeartMath: https://www.heartmath.com/resilient🧠 Muse: https://choosemuse.com/resilientmind🌿 Brain Ritual: https://www.brainritual.com/THERESILIENTMINDThis episode is brought to in partnership with Motiversity & Chris Williamson.🌍 The Resilient Mind Podcast is a proud member of 1% for the Planet — building resilient minds and a resilient planet. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can you tell me how to achieve freedom financially and what I should be thinking about in the context of a world that's changing at such incredible speed? When we're talking about tariffs and recessions and now AI, I've been thinking over the last couple of weeks, like what should my personal financial strategy be? How should I be thinking about it? Is it a strategy? Is it a psychology? Is it a mindset?

What is it that I should be thinking about to survive this area of tremendous change and Trump economics and get through the other end with that freedom and independence that you and I both desperately value. This sounds like such a squishy BS kind of answer, but I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of truth of this, and I'll explain in a second. It is largely a mindset. And that sounds crazy, but I'll explain what I mean. My grandmother-in-law, she passed away a couple years ago. She was 92 when she passed away. She, for 30 years, she lived off of nothing but Social Security. I think she got $1,700 a month from Social Security. She had nothing else. no savings, no pension, no nothing.

She was the happiest person. I've met half a dozen billionaires in my life. I'm sure you have as well. None of them were as happy as she was. And she was technically, she was like financially broke. But she had this level of psychological wealth that was like unparalleled. And the reason was off $1,700 a month, that was all she needed. She was perfectly happy toiling in her garden, watching birds, going for walks,

hanging out, reading from books from the library, perfectly content with all of that. She didn't need anything else. So she had very little money, but she wanted even less. And that, so, like, she had a level of independence that a lot of billionaires do not. Because if you are a billionaire, if you have a billion dollars in the bank,

but you are so encumbered by your business, your employees, your suppliers, your customers, you're waking up at three in the morning, sweating because you got this email and you're stressed out about it, you actually have very little independence in that situation. Your shareholders, regulators are coming down on you.

I mean, we see this. I'm not, there's no one in particular here, but we've seen very wealthy people kind of become synchophants to politicians. And the truth is, a lot of those like mega billionaires absolutely rely on politicians and regulators

to keep their machine moving. And so my grandmother-in-law, on $1,700 a month, had a higher level of independence than a lot of those people do. And I, that's why I I say like a lot of this is a mindset because the truth is the vast majority of people listening to this could have a level of independence. It's not that you can retire tomorrow, but you can have a level of financial independence

once you realize that the key is managing your expectations more than it is, how can I just pile up as much money as I possibly can? It's easy to think, like, how do you become financially independent? Like, save a ton of money. And there's, like, there's truth to that. Of course, that's part of it. But more of it is just. And like, what kind of life do you want to live?

Because if your expectations are growing faster than your net worth, it's never going to feel like it. You'll never be independent. Never. You have $100 billion. But if you want more and more and more, like, it's never going to feel like it's enough. Or if you enjoy bird watching and reading books like my grandmother-in-law, $7,800 a month. You're all set. You're set for 30 years.

You're rich. You're rich. I'm free. She was psychologically rich, even if she was financially poor. And I think that's the biggest thing about it. Adam Smith, who was the greatest economist to ever live, this was 300 years ago, he once wrote about this. He was like, why do people work so hard? And he was just like, there's a simple question, but why do people work so damn hard?

And he's like, it can't just be for our sustenance because even poor people, as he was writing about it, had homes and adequate food most of the time. He's like, there has to be something else. And what that something else was, he wrote, was to be seen by other people. And it was like it was attention and admiration. They wanted to be getting rich so that they could have a bigger house and a nice car, not in his day. But they wanted to be, they wanted detention from other people.

But he was like, it's not that you needed the money because even in his day, 300 years ago in Scotland, I think he was. He was like, look, people have homes and food. Like,

what are they doing this for? And he was not criticizing them. Like, his whole point was like, they're going out and innovating or going to have great technology. And I say, it's great to go do that. But the reason to do it was not because they had to stop.

Now, of course, most people to get shelter on food do have to keep working, but they're working more than they absolutely need to because they want something else besides independence. Is there an evolutionary basis for this? I was thinking the other day after watching an interview with Naval, where Naval talks about how, from an evolutionary perspective, humans don't really understand the concept of wealth because once upon a time when we were cave men and women, wealth was what you could carry. but we do understand the concept of status, which really meant a lot to us in our sort of tribes and was life or death for many of us. So even though billionaires get all the money in the world, the next thing they want to do is start a podcast. You know what I mean?

Right, right. Because it's just not enough. Like everyone I know is a lot of them do too is when they have all the money in the world, what they want is immortality. And you see these guys trying to live forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that happens as well.

That's interesting. But that's linked to status, because status was longevity. Yes. Like if you had status, you had food, you had the reproductive potential once upon a time. Yeah. So it's the same evolutionary sort of desire to like live survival. Yeah. Harvey Firestone, who was a tire magnet 100 years ago,

Firestone tires during the explosion in cars 100 years ago. He wrote about this in his biography. He was like, every rich person he knows once they get money buys a house that is way too big than they need. Not only bigger than they need, bigger than they want, because a giant house is just a huge pain in the ass. the roof is leaking and like everything's breaking down. It's a huge pain to manage.

So he wrote, in his buyer, he was like, why do we do this? And he was like, he did it too. He's like, I bought a house that is way bigger than I want. And it's a pain. It's a burden. But we all do it. And he's like, why? And he's like, it has to be status.

There's no utility to a 40 bedroom house. Zero. There's a lot of downside in upkeep. But he's like, every one of us does it. And he said, even Henry Ford, who was like the cheapest SOB out there, lived in a giant mansion. in Detroit. He was like, it's so natural. And he was like, it's just because we want to show other people. It's not utility. It's not making our lives better. It's actually making our life worse.

But we have this evolutionary desire to show people that we've made it. That's the calling card. But if it's hard wide, then is there much we can do about it? I think it's true that virtually everyone who I really admire in life, they're by and large, they're not hugely successful people that you've heard of. They're just people who have met and they're ordinary people with ordinary jobs. And I'm like, man, do you seem like you've got it all figured out? They took themselves out of the system that they were supposed to be in. And they're like, I'm just going to figure out my own way.

And there's a really interesting story. A guy named Chuck Feeney. He started a company called DFS, the duty-free stores in airports. He made, I think, at the peak of his wealth, he was worth about $9 billion. And this was like in the 90s when that was a lot of money, still was a lot of money. But the well-known part of Chuck Feeney, is that despite that wealth, he lived like an ordinary person. He lived in like a one-bedroom apartment.

He flew coach. He drove like a normal car. Lived like a normal guy. And some people criticized that from that. He gave all of his money to charity. He gave $9 billion away, lived like a monk himself. The less known part of Chuck Feeney that I think is more important is that when he first got wealth, became wealthy in 1980s, he lived the life of a billionaire.

He had a fleet of private jets. He had mansions all over the worlds. He had a yacht. And after doing it for a couple years, he was like, I don't like any of this. He's like, I like being an ordinary, simple person. And so I'm going to go live an ordinary life. I don't care what the world. The world tells me this is what I should want now that I have money.

But he's like, but I don't. I want simplicity. And what I like about that is not that he chose to live like a monk, because I personally wouldn't want to do that if I had that. I would have a jet if I had that kind of money. So it's not to say that he did it right, but what I like that he did is that he said, I don't care what the world tells me to like.

I'm going to do it on my own terms. And that's, like, that's true independence. That's true status, that's true status, too. He's like, I don't care. That's the ultimate definition of FU money. Of, like, so much money that, like, I don't care. You tell me I'm supposed to live in a mansion in Beverly Hills, but I like my one bedroom apartment in San Francisco.

I like my buddies over here. Another person who's done that to a very real extent is Warren Buffett. Lives in the same house today that he bought when he was 27 or whatever it was. And he's got $100 billion or something. Right. And of course he could live anywhere. He could buy anything. But he likes being with his friends, doing it on a, you know,

likes playing a bridge with his buddies. In the first case, though, that gentleman had to have his dream fail him first before he realized. And so this raises another question, which is, does the viewer at home have to make the $100 million and then taste it by the mansion to realize that it was never about the mansion? I think the answer to that is yes. Oh, gosh.

That is very difficult. You know, there's a thing. where, I forget who said this, but like, they're responding to the quote, money doesn't buy happiness. And they're like, okay, but let me go figure that out for myself first. Like, if you don't have a lot of money and you see rich people tripping over themselves and people like Will Smith saying, like, I was no happier at all when I was rich than when I was poor. Actually, I was happier when I was poor. If you are poor when you hear that, you're like, bullshit.

I don't believe it. I have to go figure it out for myself. I think a lot of lessons in life you have to learn firsthand. Especially when all the problems staring you in your face are somewhat associated to money. Like the pain in your belly, the bills on your desk, the threats from the court, I'm thinking of myself here that I was getting, the letters coming through with the red text on them telling me that my credit cards were going to be shut down. The inability to feed yourself to socialize with your friends. The heating in your house. Your child's pencil case costs.

All of it seems to circle back to money. And so when you hear people who are wealthy, being subjectively honest about their own experience and then what's made them happy, it is hard to hear. Yeah. Like I was just imagining, if I was hearing these stories when I was in that situation, I would still fucking go for it anyway. Right. Now, let's say there's a big difference between not being able to buy food for your kids

and making $200 grand per year. Yeah. And the difference between $10,000 a year and $200,000. grand a year is massive. It takes away so many stresses, so many, you know, worries about being evicted and whatnot. But the difference between 200 grand and 500 grand is not that much. And the difference between 500 grand and 20 million is not that much. And there's between 20 million and 20 billion is zero. I think that's a lot of what it comes down to. And even I think there is such thing as like a peak net worth that you would want in life, after which all the money that you accrue

becomes like a social liability. I mean, who has more. social liability or like pressure than the mega rich you know Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos. There's a huge amount of pressure. Like you better donate this money and you better do a good job doing it kind of thing. And so and I think that number of like and at a much lower like realistic level for people. It's when your friends learn you make a lot of money and we go out for dinner and they're like you're paying right. And that's a small thing, but it can really great on people that like, oh, it's going to change how people think about me. Now that's, that's, That's a good problem to have, of course, but it's a thing.

And I think the idea of there is a maximum amount of, like, there is a net worth level at which your happiness is going to be maximized. And it's probably lower than you think. Do you think it's important for people to have an idea what their number is? I don't think anyone really does because I've done this in my own life. I'm sure you have too. When I was 19, I was like, oh, if my net worth was this amount, I'll be happy forever. And then I was fortunate enough to hit that amount.

And I'm like, okay, but what if we got over here? And you just keep going up the ladder forever. Is there such thing as FU money? Like, is there a number where you think you've hit FU money? I saw some thread on Twitter and it was like, comment below what you think FU money is. And it was interesting to see the variation. I have a friend Ben Carlson, who's a great financial writer. He came up, this is very subjective.

There's no science behind this. But he was like a net worth of $7 to $10 million. You can live an amazing life in the United States. Have an amazing house paid for. Send your kids to great schools. Go on great vacations. Drive brand new cars on 7 to 10 million. dollars. And he brought that up. Some people might wince at this, but he brought that up of,

it's a lot less than people would think, because there'd be a lot of people who would be like, oh, I'm gunned for a hundred million, even if that's just a fantasy, it's a dream. And $79 million is out of reach for a lot of people, no matter how hard they're working. But I think particularly for young people who their definition of, I think about my son a lot of this, he watches Mr. Beast. Mr. Beast is an amazing guy. I think he's one of the great guys. But because of Mr. Beast, Like, my son's definition of wealth is a private island, a private jet, you know, keep your hand on the table and win a million dollars kind of thing. It's a different level.

Whereas when I was growing up, like ordinary people drove dirty pickup trucks and rich people drove clean pickup trucks. That was like, that was the stratification of what I saw growing up. And I think because of social media and other things, kids have a very different view on what, like, financial wealth actually is these days. Going back to this issue of tariffs, recession and everything that's going on at the moment, Are there any things practically for those that don't understand the economy and economics generally that we should be thinking about to make sure that we don't get burnt? This is less advice going forward more than just like something to remember next time, which is that if you are worrying about, if you're worried about being laid off, if you're a small business owner worried about going under, the need for room for error and cushion and savings and backup plans are we're just as important a month ago as they are today.

You're just learning how important they are today. And I challenge you to remember that in the future, when this is all over, whenever it's all over, that when the economy is going well and you feel stable in your job, stable in your career, that is when you also absolutely need backup plans and room for error and savings and assuing debt and whatnot. I have a very high level of cash as a percentage of my net worth. And a lot of financial advisors would look at that and say, like, what are you saving for? Like, what's going on here? And I'm like, I don't know.

I'm saving for a world that I know is very fragile. And I have no idea what's going to happen to me personally or what's going to happen to the economy. But if you're a lay student of history, you know that things break all the time. And so my advice to you, if you're realizing that for the first time, that how fragile the world can be and how the job security that you thought you had might not have been as strong. Remember this next time, how important room for error and backup plans are. And relative to your personal costs, your personal monthly costs or overheads, as they call them, how much money do you think it's sensible to have saved? It's so hard for that because everyone's in a, I'm sure people watching this will be in a massive range of incomes. I would say this is a bad answer that no one's going to like, but pretty much as much as you can.

I mean, I'll give you one example of this. When COVID first hit in March of 2020, the average restaurant, I heard, had enough cash on hand to last them for 14 days. and then all of a sudden they were looking at a six-month lockdown. And so I think one answer to that question is however much you think you'll need, it's probably more. The other more practical example of this is in 2008 during the financial crisis. A lot of people were losing their jobs, not for two weeks or one month, but they losing their jobs for 12 months. And they got unemployment benefits, but it wasn't enough. And so is it practical to say, like, you should have 12 months of saving?

It's probably not practical for a lot of people. But the answer is as much as you can, while realizing that the world is more fragile than you probably think it is. Thank you for listening. Continue strengthening your mind by subscribing and listening to our other episodes.