The Rest Is Entertainment - A Brief History Of Popcorn At The Movies

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Why did popcorn become the ultimate cinema snack? Do open letters work? And how long does it really take to film The 1% Club – and what does Lee Mack’s iPad have to do with it? Join Richard Osman and Marina Hyde as they answer all these questions, plus - how to avoid a comedian's cruel crowd work. The Rest Is Entertainment AAA Club: Become a member for exclusive bonus content, early access to our Q&A episodes, ad-free listening, access to our exclusive newsletter archive, discount book prices on selected titles with our partners at Coles, early ticket access to future live events, and our members’ chatroom on Discord. Just head to therestisentertainment.com to sign up, or start a free trial today on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/therestisentertainment. The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Assistant Producer: Aaliyah AkudeVideo Editor: Kieron Leslie, Charlie Rodwell, Adam Thornton, Harry SwanProducer: Joey McCarthySenior Producer: Neil FearnHead of Content: Tom WhiterExec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by our friends at Sky. Now, they really know how to put on a show and to make it easy for us to enjoy them. Everything is just there, no digging around, no endless scrolling. Absolutely, and here's the magic. If you know what you're in the mood for, just say it into your remote. You want something specific, say Sweet Pea, and Sweet Pea will appear. If you want something a genre, just say, show me horror, and your Sky will show you horror movies, horror TV shows, anything in that genre. It really is magic. It's not magic, it's technology, but it feels like magic.

It's like having a shortcut to your perfect evening. You speak, it listens, and suddenly you're three episodes in. A feast of entertainment right at your fingertips. Feast, schmoggers, board, banquet. Which makes me very hungry. Yeah. I wonder if you can get snacks from your remote. Try it.

I'm being told you can't. It's just the world of entertainment at your fingertips, the world of food, you have to go elsewhere. So if you're ready to dive into top-notch entertainment, just want to let you know we had so many questions about MasterChef this week, understandably, that we've done a special standalone podcast which you can download. Thank you for not saying emergency. It's my absolute pleasure. Our special emergency podcast on MasterChef you can download now, but this one is a MasterChef free zone. Let's get on with the podcast. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment questions and answers edition.

I'm Marina High. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hello Marina. I love the little, you always get a little look on your face when you get through that the first bit of the show and don't mess it up. It's palpable isn't it? Yeah. I can feel it myself.

It like hangs in the air. I did it. I said hello. I said it's Q&A and I said my name in the right order. Until that moment it's hung like a siding pole over the studio and then it's now it's evaporated. Yeah, you can relax. Yeah, it's in the coast containment.

And what people don't know is it was the seventh take, but that's okay. What are we talking about this week? There's a question for Mark Brotherton that I want to ask you. He says, I was recently at a Rob Beckett show in Portsmouth. Oh, I'm sorry about that, Mark. We love Rob Beckett. We doortsmouth. I'm sorry about that, Mark. We love Rob Beckett. We do love Rob. We truly love him.

And when I arrived, I found out that my seat had been moved to the front row. The idea of being picked on by a comedian is a deep fear of mine. And I spent the entire evening avoiding eye contact with him. Do comedians have a system for who they interact with while on stage? And what is the best way to be left alone? That's such a great question. Also, that is the worst nightmare. I was thinking I'd go to Edinburgh every year and in that place, sometimes you're in an

audience of like 12 and like the odds of you getting picked are pretty high. And you're six foot seven. So it's very, very difficult. Yeah. The best thing that ever happened to me was becoming well known on TV because then people never pick on me. But before then I'd be picked on by everyone all the time. If Mark doesn't become well known on television, just say he doesn't create a career for himself

on that medium. What's the second best way? The second best way, okay, I get it. And this is such a common fear by people. Audiences know it, comics know it. So I talked to so many comics about this, because I thought it'd be interesting to get different perspectives. And they all had the exact same perspective, which was everyone likes doing a bit of crowd work. It just means every show is different. You can sort of tailor it to an audience. It makes the audience realize that you're making stuff up as you go along as well. But every single one of them said, there are two types of people I will always, always, always avoid on the front row that I would never talk to.

I will never talk to someone who's obviously not making eye contact. So Mark, you did an absolutely grand job there. Congratulations. on the front row that I would never talk to. I would never talk to someone who's obviously not making eye contact. So Mark, you did an absolutely grand job there, congratulations. They might talk to your wife, for example, who's sitting next to you, and then you will be dragged in. So anyone who definitely doesn't want to be picked, they can pick up on. But also anyone who desperately wants to be picked. So those are the two classes of people.

Every single comic said this to me. It's like, if somebody doesn't want to be picked, there's no fun in that for anyone. And somebody desperately wants to be picked. I know it's not going to be funny because they were already, they probably already got some material that they want to use and they probably got like pretend they've got some hilarious job or something like this. And they've got some comeback they got for me. So it always, always goes wrong. So you just pick someone who's just enjoying themselves. Maybe they've laughed at the first joke you've done. So, you know, you know, they're on side, you know, they're friendly, or maybe they haven't laughed at the first joke you've done, so you know they're onside, you know they're friendly, or maybe they haven't laughed at the first joke, but there's a vibe to it.

So it's reading that row. I would say you're unlikely to get picked on in a sort of touring comics show. Do you think people had not booked those seats in the front and that's why they moved because having no one in the front doesn't look great? Or do you think someone had said, I'm so sorry, I've got a condition, I cannot stand this, I don't want to be in the front? Always, always, always a comic will get the front row filled up, always. And the first few rows if they can. If there's even two gaps, every comic will tell you it's all you can see throughout the whole performance. You know, if there's someone not laughing at any point, you can see that person. And if there's like spare seats in there,

you absolutely see them. So the job of the stage manager and job of the, the, the crew, whatever venue is to fill those gaps. Normally they would fill that with volunteers because actually front rows do tend to set out fairly quickly. So normally that would be filled with fun. I didn't know what's happened to Mark where he's been frogmarched. That feels a bit harsh. There must've been somebody else around him had gone, I'd love to be in the

front row of a Rob Beckett gig. But I think that people worry far more these days because in clubs, that really That feels a bit harsh. There must've been somebody else around him who'd gone, I'd love to be in the front row of a Rob Beckett gig. But I think that people worry far more these days because in clubs, that really is somewhere that you should probably avoid the front row because in clubs, you know, comics are filming their things. We've spoken about it before. Yeah. Putting them online, you know, uh, and, you know, they've got all sorts of

tricks they can use with, with people in the front row, but if you, if you're going to- Does buying a ticket automatically serve as a release form for that stuff? Normally it would. Normally there'd be a sign up at the door saying, you know, you're, you know, Does buying a ticket automatically serve as a release form for that stuff? Normally it would. Normally there'd be a sign up at the door saying, you know, your likeness might be used in a video, but that would come down to the comedian rather than the club. But that's a very, very good question.

So you should write in. I'll write in. I'll write in to ask. I will. They do not want you to have an uncomfortable time. You know, they really, really don't. I have a question on a very different subject for you. Although it is a question about audiences. Suzanne asked a question what

is the history of eating popcorn when going to the movies? Suzanne the second I read this question I thought I want to know the answer to that. How did popcorn get that upgrade of image and that gig? Popcorn is a really old snack and they found corn cobs that we use for popcorn in Peru that have date back to something like 4,700 BC. Popcorn is crazy, by the way. Popcorn is one of the weirdest things in the whole world. How did you ever find out that would happen? Like meringues? How long would you have to do that with egg whites to write? I think, my God, this is actually quite cool. Yeah, you must be so angry about something.

Yeah. I'm really just going to do half an hour of this. Yeah. The type of corn that they use is mostly grown in the American Midwest. Popcorn itself is a very, and the association with the movies is very American. Even before then, early 19th century America, it was, it was called something else, they were called Pearls or Non-Pareil or things like this. Eventually, there was a guy called Charles Cretas and he had a sweet shop. I think it was in Ohio.

He had a nut roasting machine, which he adapted. And that's how, that's how this mad thing, like how they thought, all right, if you were really heat it and then it will pop. It's crazy. It is crazy. But Charles Cretas, when he first saw it, just must've gone, I might be the greatest genius who ever lived. God knows what else he'd put in that machine before he hit on popcorn.

For fuck's sake. You imagine all the mistakes. Jesus, okay, finally. Yeah. Take 56. I'll tell you what, runner beans don't work. Yeah. I might be the greatest genius who ever lived. God knows what else he'd put in that machine before he hit on popcorn. You imagine all the mistakes. Jesus, okay, finally. Yeah. Take 56. I tell you what, runner beans don't work. Yeah. So he had, anyway, so he created this and then he thought, well, hang on a second.

Why don't I just attach these to carts? And then, so he had a mobile unit, which was, as we know, one of the great snack innovations of all time. But the main thing is, in the Great Depression, it was very, very cheap. If you think, but movie theatre owners were very snooty about popcorn at the time. Remember what movie theatres were like. They were so amazing. Wanted it to be the art form of the people, but they put like carpets everywhere.

The theatres, there's some, I've got, I read this book by, I've got this actual, there's a great guy, these people both be out of print, but I do have these somewhere in my non-unpacked book. So people can just knock on the door and borrow them. Yeah, absolutely. He's a guy called John Margulis and he wrote this book, he wrote one about a sort of majesty of American gas stations called Pump and Circumstance. And he wrote one called Ticket to Paradise, which is like a beautiful book of all these

old movie theaters. Remember, things like The Roxy in New York is so incredible, like everyone, you know. Where do you find these books? I don't know. I once went to a talk by this guy at somewhere like Reba, the architect's place. I can't remember, long time ago. And I loved it, but it was beautiful illustrations. And something like the Roxy, which in New York, which was a complete picture palace. It really was. It was amazing. You know, they nearly went bankrupt building it. It's, you know, seated 6,000 people. They had organists. There was guilt everywhere. Remember all this stuff. So the movie theater owner's like, yeah, no, you

can't bring your crap in here. You know, you don't want, but people started selling it outside. What were they selling? Were you not allowed to sell it at all? No, they didn't really want you to sort of, no, they, It's not a restaurant. Yeah, it's a cinema. Well, as we now know, It is a restaurant.

It's, you're essentially a food court with some sort of digital screening service attached to you. You are in food retail if you work in these spaces, that's where you make your money. But back then, people would not, because it was so cheap and it was the sort of thing that people could still afford to do just about in the Great Depression, which is still a huge boom time for movies. They had the carts outside, people would think this is a great way we'll sell on the way in. Eventually the movie theater owners thought, this keeps happening,

we're going to own this, you can buy it inside from now on. And that's how it got that role. But it is actually not that messy compared to what many other different types of snacks are. I actually remember Claudia Winkleman once saying, I've thought the best snack for kids on a plane, right? And you can't do it if anyone's got a natalogy on the plane, but pistachios, because they take so long to open each one. There's more children, they've got a really long time to open each one. They're not sticky at all. And it's very labor intensive and it's not sticky.

By the shells, I'd worry about the shells. Sure. Popcorn isn't that desperate to clean up and it's really not that bad. But these carpets that they had, even though it was in the Great Depression, you know, things like the Roxy had the world's largest oval carpet and they had been sort of, you know, hand spun by something. They wanted to make these places complete palaces for the working person and they are amazing. When you look at these pictures of these things, honestly, like you're going to, they were going to the Paris Opera, they really kind of put it all out there.

So they were a bit snooty, but in the end they were like, they could make money. And that's how it got the job. But it is helped by not being that messy. But who did like, like flavored popcorn, sweet popcorn and all that stuff? Well, the Ruckheim brothers in Chicago in 1870 were like, well, they were the original people who just thought, what about if we just made this like a hundred times more sugary and they did caramel popcorn Wow, the Rukhine brothers. Yeah, I love this

I've talked too often about the first flavorings and crisps, but I've never knew about the first flavors and popcorns Well, there you go. My son always goes half and half. Yes. I think that's the best Like the revels of popcorn, yeah, cuz I had some assumption in my head I had not spent any time thinking about it. And it's good to hear about it. My assumption was that it was just a snack that didn't make a lot of noise. So that's helpful as well. But it's interesting, didn't take over from like people were not eating crisps or something. And someone said we need a we need a it was popcorn was the first one in through the door. It was Yeah, it was. But it was because it was so cheap. It's a lot cheaper to make popcorn than it is to make crisps.

The markup on popcorn is insane. What do you think in cinemas when people eat like nachos and things? That to me is... Well, again, I've told you, you're in food retail now and there are loads of cinemas. They'll bring it to your seat. All of these things have changed and upgraded and they're always trying to sort of sell you these. In the same way, you know, the two most important things to work out about cinemas is that you're in food retail and kids run movie chains because that's the genre that makes the most amount of money. You may think all sorts of other things are true,

but actually really, yeah, I don't love that. And if they're very air conditioned, it can kind of get away with it. But I think I don't completely love it. But people will bring you drinks and coffees and everything now. Yeah, these days. If you have a snack, like a Malteser, anything with any sort of crunch, anything with any sort of noise, I'm very, I don't like noise in the cinema, so I hate making noise in the cinema as well.

Do you do that thing, and sometimes you can't do it, there's certain films where you're like, oh great, I can't eat my Maltesers, that you would only crunch when there's something loud happening on the screen like an expert like so if you're watching a Marvel movie it's great so I can have I can have some Maltesers because someone's about to go through a lot in Jurassic Rebirth let me tell you oh really yeah absolutely no

problem you could just bite down every time a dinosaur did a very very Malteser friendly yeah yeah but site but sometimes you can see like you can see movies you think I mean there's no noise here at all. It's inappropriate that I'm going to have this snack. This subject matter is torturous. Literally having to suck my Maltesers. Yeah, you've got the certain subject matter that is a Malteser sucker. They don't put it on poster. They should do.

But there should be a rating that just says you will be sucking this. Yeah, it's a really quiet, elegiac movie. It's a real Malteser sucker. God, I love an explosion if If I've got some pick and mix. Everyone in the cinema at the same time. And the second it finishes, just like one person just three away, just still crunching and everyone goes, come on, man. You've had 17 seconds of a nuclear bomb going off. You're still eating popcorn. Thank you, Suzanne, for that question because I love a question where I'm desperate to know the answer

As well, and I still remember mr. Kreta, but being someone who invents something that massive. Yeah What would he think now if we knew that we were still sort of you go? That was me. Yes, he probably made nothing out of it probably I mean, I think he did fairly well at the time and his idea he was obviously very in a Mobile snack carts, but they're big gum popcorn conglomerates. What is big popcorn? Big corn? Butterkist? Butterkist, of course.

I was thinking I couldn't think of a popcorn company, but Butterkist. I wonder what Butterkist board meetings are like. I don't think they're with companies like that. But you know what I mean? All they're talking about is popcorn. Maybe they're just thinking about how can we make the packets smaller. That's what I think a huge amount of confectionery retail nowadays is. What if we kept it the same price and made the packets smaller?

That's essentially the job. Imagine if you work for Butterkist and you listen to this and you've been listening right from the start, talking about all sorts of industries and you're going here we go finally this is a bit of me. They know nothing about it they're just purely speculating and they were trying to get more into a bag. If you work, yes exactly, if you work for Butterkist do right in. Someone must do right? Yeah. People are working for Butterkist. It's not just like a sort of self-automated firm. Yeah it's not AI. It's not an automated firm, someone pressed the button on in 1992. And it just continues to occur. Big Butterkist, please get in touch. Shall we go to an

ad break? Oh my god what if Butterkist are on board? I very much hope. I can hear my own voice in a minute reading out something about Butterkist. Oh my god. about Barsecost. Oh my god. This episode is brought to you by Sky Cinema, the ultimate destination for the latest blockbusters. Speaking of blockbusters, let's talk about something that defied gravity, bewitched critics and fans alike, and has now landed on Sky Cinema. What could it be? Fast and Furious? No, of course we are talking about Wicked. Wicked is here, the beloved Broadway musical reimagined for big screen in all its glittering green-tinged glory. It's the untold story of Elphaba and Glinda long before Dorothy dropped in uninvited

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Welcome back everybody. Welcome back. I don't know if you had any adverts for Bartokis there but... Can I say by the way also in the studio you are eating off-brand frazzles, which were on the Spotify snack tray. I'm eating something that it claims to be great for your gart. I had some already, but I finished mine. I know, and I can't now.

I have to just wait until you talk really loudly and I just crunch one more. Maybe I'll do it in this question about the 1% club, Richard, because Andrew Davis says, how long does it take to record each episode of the 1% club? The lighting presets must take ages after each question and working out who gets a blue light, who gets a gold light, depending if they answered correctly or not. Plus 101 microphones to control

and the people Lee speaks to after each question, I'm guessing a lot of this is cut. Thank you, Andrew. Funny enough, I saw a couple of episodes being made last week because we were up at House of Games and they film in the next studio and they were still going when we were finished because we were up at House of Games and they film in the next studio and they were

still going when we were finished because we tend to finish quite early. And this speaks actually to, we talked on our AI episode on Tuesday about the creativity of people behind the scenes in TV. And the 1% club, I'm going to say is the most surprisingly quick television show I've ever seen because I was exactly like Andrew, I'm thinking this feels like a nightmare. Because if you don't know the show, it's a hundred people. Each of them can be spoken to at any time.

Each of them has an individual light on them. And when they get knocked out, the light turns off. Lee talks to people after each show and you go all the way through until you've got one person left. So I went along to see it. I'll say one thing about it is they only do one a day, which is unbelievable. These, you can tell when something is a huge hit when they're allowed to only do one a day, because the cost of doing one show a day is immense.

But when I heard they do one show a day, I was thinking, oh, of course it must take five hours. And it really, really doesn't. So simple things. So, you know, we talk about, there have to be a hundred lights and there are a hundred lights and they're all, you know, set to look at individual people. But, you know, an awful lot of that is on an

algorithm and on a computer. And when the computer says that numbers 8, 14, 21, 49 are out, those lights switch off. It's as quick as that. So all the work there has been done before, all the work has been done beforehand and just gone, okay, I've built this system, this incredible system that means anytime you get to the end of the round, the thing that holds us up is not me. It's not my team in lighting. Okay. We have done our job as quickly as we possibly can. And the lighting director on that, Gurdip, he's done a million brilliant things. He's an absolute genius. But again, he's thinking there may be some delays on this show, but they're not going to be Gurdip delays. Okay. They're going

to be somebody else. The sound I think is even more interesting because anyone who's ever been near a TV show know that, you know, getting mic'd up, you have a little lapel mic and, you know, you've got your pack and each of them has got individual batteries and, you know, at any given time, certainly one out of a hundred battery pack is going to be dying. And actually nobody is mic'd up on that show. What is mic'd up is the set. So all the mics are in the set and those mics are directional.

So anyone who is anywhere is essentially, it's already pre done. Again, the sound crew are going, listen, there might be a delay on the show. It is not going to be our delay because they've done all of their work beforehand and come up with a creative solution. In terms of who Lee talks to, Lee has an iPad instead of a car, that's the biggest thing that's changed in game shows. And Lee, the producers who are up in the gallery, Andy Auerbach and Dean Navarro, who put this show together and have had a huge, huge, huge hit with it and have been working for years and years, done loads

of great things. This is lovely to see them have just something that is absolutely going all around the world. They and their producers know something about every contestant. Again, all this work is done beforehand. The researchers know something about all of these people. They've been interesting little fact and interesting little story. For any given question, five people have been knocked out, 95 people are still in. Lee will have a top five people to talk to and something to say about. So you'll see it on the show and Lee will go, so someone's been knocked out. John, but you've been knocked out,

your brother is still here. Okay, so the gallery has done that, the researchers have done that. They're not kind of after every question going, oh my God, what can we ask? What could Lee ask? All that stuff is pre-done. Plus also they go, oh, someone who's still left in,

Lee is this guy and he's got an amazing story. So let's make sure we talk to him while he's still in. So Lee will have the top five people to talk to. He will talk to those people. You might edit in three of those, depending on how those conversations have gone. And again, the producers are smart enough that as the show goes on, in that top five people, it's not just the stuff they've heard before from the researchers. It's, oh, it was funny when he talked to Person X earlier. Let's make sure that top five people. It's not just the stuff they've heard before from the researchers.

It's, oh, it was funny when he talked to Person X earlier. Let's make sure that's a runner. Let's make sure we continue that conversation. So actually the whole show is the art of pre-production. You know, every single thing has been done so brilliantly and so thoroughly that when you get on the floor, I was genuinely shocked with the speed it went. Because normally anything with any sort of camera moves or any sort of lighting things or any sort of talking to those people, it goes on forever and ever and ever. I really, I just thought what a crew they've got on this show. It's incredible. So the producers are brilliant.

It's a great idea and it's made brilliantly. The question writers are brilliant on that show. But I left that studio thinking, what a crew. This is crazy. It's at the speed with which they go is absolutely mind boggling. It would be hard to do maybe more than one or two in a day, even though they do one. I mean, you could, listen, I don't want to tell a tale.

You could definitely do two. I'll say that. You know, there's a world in which you could do there's there's a world in which you could do three There's a world in which you could do three but Who benefits nobody? You know for the crew they'd rather do one a day for the studio They'd rather you were doing one a day for Lee. He'd rather do one a day for the contestants They'd rather do one a day because it's all your day and it's you know

The only people paying ITV and ITV have got a hit so ITV don't don't mind so much anyway so I loved them seeing just one a day I kept walking through because we were doing five a day at the same time and I know you don't like to talk about and you'd walk you'd walk past the holding pen and there's like a hundred people all getting their briefing at the same time by this amazing woman called Olivia van der Wer, who is sort of an adjudicator on quiz shows. She's like the kind of the God of all quizzes. And she sort of talking to them about what to do, what not to do. And then there's a cardboard cutter of Lee that everyone gets their

photo taken in front of and that every single day, every single day. I walk through the double doors and I think there's Lee and it's a cardboard cutout of him, but every day I walk through the double doors and I think Leslie and it's a cardboard cutout of him but every day I do it anyway that's a little behind the scenes peak but yeah it is surprisingly quick and it's surprisingly quick because it's got an amazing crew Marina I have a question here that I think I have views on as well I suspect you'll have views on it it's from Alistair Otto and Alistair says every so often you see an open letter in the media signed by a list of well-known names calling on the government to act on a particular issue. How does

that actually come about? Do these things tend to go through agents and publicists or is it more informal? Do you ever sign these? Good question. I've probably signed a couple. It's a nonsense. I really think these things are a nonsense. But anyway, in terms of how they're actually got together, I'm relatively, I don't know, I'm not even maybe that often asked, but I've been asked all different ways. Sometimes they might go to your agent and your agent might pass it on or your agent might think, yeah, I'd protect you from every single one of these that comes fire. So I could be being asked lots. I just don't know. Because my agents, neither of them pass on ones except in maybe less exceptionally think they think it might be

aligned with your interests, I suppose. Or it's like Mr. Motivator wants to get in touch. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, pass that on. Yeah, obviously. It goes without saying, just giving my home address. I think that open letters are, to a huge extent, they're performative, they're designed to make the signatories feel better about whatever it is. And I fundamentally don't believe they work. Like, I would love to know the time in history when an open letter, I'm actually thinking of Martin Luther and his 95 theses nailed onto the door of the church. That's not an open letter. It sort of was an open letter. You finally got a reformation out of it. Okay.

Exactly. But other than that. And then went on to be the money saving expert, of course. Yeah. So same guy? be the money saving expert, of course. Yeah. Same guy? Let me, yeah.

Martin Luther, money saving expert. I mean, some money was saved. That's a joke. Yeah. Okay. But I mean, if that was an open letter. In general, no, I don't think they were. I mean, I remember, God, I mean, obviously there are lots of ones about cultural boycotts.

There's lots that happen because of sort of peer pressure, the Bailey Gifford sort of thing, which we covered a bit about festivals. Lots of AI ones now. Lots of AI ones. I am not convinced at all. I do think that people's talking heads might make some difference. I don't know, but I really don't think open letters do. I remember during the Brexit campaign where, because the side that I didn't want to win won, but I remember thinking, oh, that's going to, I was just feeling more and more because I was thinking, how are they actually doing this? And it would be like, today there was a letter from a hundred

business owners in the Times, and it'd be like, jeez, is this it? Is this the plan? And then today 150 small to medium enterprise owners have written a letter to the Times, and I remember thinking, again, I mean, I talk a lot about the dead languages of politics, but that to me is like, sorry, there's a letter in the Times. Is this what you think is going to make the difference? Because I just don't feel it is. And I thought it was really weird that that was part of a concerted campaign by the Remain campaign, Stronger Inn or whatever they're called. I remember just thinking, this is meaningless.

That's when you go down to Labbrokes and bet on leave. Yeah. I made the smart decision a long time ago of not having an agent. So it's very hard to get in touch with me. I think, yes, I think usually they're counterproductive. I get it. I understand it, but there's something about it saying, we, the undersigned, you're going to be shocked and surprised when you see the names on this list.

Yeah. Cause you're thinking if all these people agree with, with each other on something, then something's up. And it's a group of people who you think, of course, you agree with each other on this. My assumption would be you'd agree with each other on this. And there are a few AI things that came around that I'd spoken about to say that I was people sort of post me to do that. But nothing really absolutely represents the thing that you think. And also, I always think, who are you trying to persuade and how you're trying to persuade

them? I've never been convinced that an open letter to a newspaper, which people then can then, you know, retweet or whatever, or put on Instagram. I've never been convinced that any of that has ever changed anyone's mind about anything. And so I agree. I'm not sure of the efficacy of putting one's name to it. I get it if you feel angry and you feel you want your voice heard, but often these are people who have a forum for their voices to be heard anyway.

And you think you can't just have a hundred of you who most people reading this would assume think the same thing anyway, just all saying that. Who are you talking to? Are you talking to the public? The public are not interested. I mean, firstly, they're never going to hear about it. And second, if they are going to hear about it, they're going to tut and just go, yeah, of course. Or are you talking to the public? The public are not interested. I mean, firstly, they're never going to hear about it. And second, if they are going to hear about it, they're going to talk to them and just go, yeah, of course.

Or are you talking to policy makers and you know, policy makers are not looking at an open letter and think this is not a tiger that roars. Uh, so I understand why people do them. I've never felt the need to add my name to one of them. Every now and then you think, Oh, I think there's been some sort of sea change of this issue because people who wouldn't have said their name to one of them. Every now and then you think, oh, I think there's been some sort of sea change of this issue because people who wouldn't have said, put their name to something like this suddenly or saying, well, I actually disagree in this certain thing should be allowed to be said simply because of free speech or whatever it is. But it's as like, as a small kind

of bellwether or something. I don't think it's particularly meaningful. It's usually an open letter saying we should be allowed out at night and it's signed by 400 cats. Yeah. I know you think you should be allowed out at night and it's signed by 400 cats. I know you think you should be allowed out at night. I get it because you meow constantly. The other type of open letter I think I hate even more. This is the one that Andreas Wittem Smith, who was a person and one of the founders of the Independent said that a journalist

writing an open letter is an act of madness. And it's when you see those letters that people write, you know, dear Donald Trump. It's like, mate, I just don't think he's going to see this. That is for me a hangover to a real kind of a completely different era. And you don't see them quite as much as you used to. They sort of normally come from a place of love. There was a really weird period in this is all before the political arrivals of 2016, where I remember there was a spate of like comedians writing open letters to each other, which were basically newspaper columns. And David Mitchell wrote one in The Observer to Steve Coogan saying, I don't think press freedom is under threat by what you're pushing for in there.

And then Steve Coogan wrote one back to him, you know, Dear David. Then I think Russell Brand, you'll have to remind me what's happened to him, guest-edited an edition of the New Statesman in which he wrote something to readers. And then Rob Webb, David Mitchell's comedy partner, wrote an open letter back to him. I mean, this is quite an odd sort of set of exchanges that are having quite a trend. The reason I think I hate that type of open letter the most is because it's a column that's trying to pretend it isn't one. Right.

And you know, just write a column. Yeah, exactly. Listen, this is the most unionized I've ever seen you. You're like, that is not your, you are doing a column, but you're pretending it's not a column. But that's fine. Listen, let's not pretend the column's an art form because really let's not. But that's what you're doing. But it sort of purports to be going out with the head of the people to whom it's actually meant to be read by which is I hope the readers you would want to send something privately like that and if you'd like to say something about XYZ or about something that Donald Trump's doing don't feel the need to

address it you know we don't need to conduct a public life in this epistolary fashion and sometimes it happens less than it used to. And it does. And sometimes it is, it's a sidebar, but sometimes if I'm asked to write something about a particular area and I do, I usually respond in saying, I just think there are people at universities up and down this country, you really, really, really know what they're talking about on this. And I would be saying the first thing that comes into my head and it's, I get

it and, you know, I get lots of people not again. That's really interesting. But there are there are super smart people out there who might be better to hear from. Also, I don't want to do it. And I don't have time. Yes, also, I don't actually say that reply supports to be something as I am watching the snooker. Okay, I will have literally no snooker time if I do this. So I have to have in the end make hard choices. Yeah, or I started it, I got three paragraphs in and I ran out of things to say. I thought maybe get someone intelligent to write this for you instead. So some comics don't seem worried about that, do they? No. Although, you know

what, some comics, not many, some of them are super smart anyway. But, you know, sometimes you read things you think, maybe someone else could have written that. I don't know, I like your columns though. I do like those. Somebody else could have written all of those I can assure you. Should we finish with a with a with a short one, a very apt short one. Andy Hunt says it is well known that Orlando Bloom had very few lines in Lord of the Rings but it was still in my opinion a great performance. In your opinion what are examples of great performances where an actor had either very few or many, many lines? Andy, thank you. Okay, so yes, he's Legolas, he's the elf. He looks great. Was it an epic performance? I'm not quite sure. An epic film and looks great. He's got 17 lines

has it in that movie in total, 17 lines But looks looks the part that the shortest the famously the shortest time ever to win an acting Oscar is Beatrice straight in network. She's on screen for five minutes and two seconds and it's incredible street scene She plays William Holden's wife and he's basically telling her he's leaving her and it's just this unbelievable little scene in their apartment But it's so epic and it's, um, anyway, she couldn't believe it. And of course, when she got it, she said the script was amazing and that this is how I got the Oscar. That best supporting is a category you can get away with very, very little for. I mean, think Isabella Rossellini, but I just suddenly remembered this.

She was up for conclave. I mean, I didn't know how many lines she had. She had so few lines in that. Um, and I was sort of astonished that they had even, I think that, you know, they thought she's wonderful and we should have given her something before. So they put her in. Judy Dench and Shakespeare in Love is not six minutes, it's under six minutes. She got the Oscar for that. I'm trying to think of the other ones. For the actual best actor Oscar, Anthony Hopkins got one. For Hannibal Lettard, that's a very short

performance. That's something like 16 minutes, 15 minutes. Compalling though. Yeah. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But I remember at the time, there was a lot of talk about how lots of the sort of supporting actor categories that year were on screen for much longer and had many more lines. So yeah, the supporting category is like Anne Hathaway got one for being Fontine and Les Mis and I can't remember the other, various other ones, very short ones. Long things. Now, Jim Carrey used to say more words than anyone in films and he averages 5,338 words per movie. Is that right? He's like the most

speaky actor. Talks fast. I mean it helps if something like if you helps if you've got a voiceover that always is going to help you. Also comedy as well and and schtick and bits you know and there's there's lots of business in those films and he's racing through them, rattling through stuff. So I guess it's a lot of words per minute. Yes. I think the most is Robert De Niro in Casino and he has 26,798 words.

Wow, that doesn't seem that many to me. When I think about audio book readers and books like 90,000 words and they haven't anything, De Niro's doing 26,000, that's the most anyone's ever done. That's like a quarter of an audiobook. But think how many times he's had to say each of those words. Of course they have to do it five or six times. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And all the ADR. He's probably said about, I don't know, what, what do you think he said? He's probably said 200,000. Yeah, probably. I take it back. Take it back. You he said he's probably said 200,000 yeah probably I take it back take it back you know he's a grafter yeah but yes the supporting category is really where the gold mines for that are and that actual that absolute shortest one Beatrice Drake honestly it's one scene

do you think that Orlando Bloom's performance do you agree with Andy Hunt's opinion that is a great great performance? No, I told you, I think he looks absolutely perfect. And there's something very ethereal about him and the hair and all of that, and that particular stage of his beauty, he is perfect for that. So it's incredibly arresting. And yeah, I think it's captivating, but I don't think it's... It's captivating, but you're not about to sign an open letter about it. I'm not about to see him not be recognized by the Academy. Yeah. Dear Sir, we the undersigned.

A retrospective career achievement Oscar for Orlando Bloom. For Orlando Bloom, please. Signed Sir David Putnam, Stephen Hawking. Anyhow, I think that does actually wind us up for today, Richard. Lovely. So this is, it's always good to be wound up. We have a special bonus episode tomorrow. We're starting our Greatest British sitcom of all time episodes.

We begin tomorrow with some of the runners and riders for what might be the greatest British sitcom of all time. That's for our members and you can join at therestosentertainment.com. And if you have any questions for us, please keep them coming to therestisentertainment.com. And if you have any questions for us, please keep them coming to the restisentertainment.com and we will endeavor to answer them or go to people who also know the answers.

Yeah, I'm also very happy if you want to ask opinion questions, because I always want to know what Marina's opinion is on various things. The more obscure the better, because the stuff that we wouldn't be able to do on the main show. And otherwise, we'll see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. This episode was brought to you by our good friends at Sky.

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