The Rest Is Entertainment - CELEBRITY TRAITORS FINAL REACTION

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

**SPOILERS OF THE FINAL EPISODE OF THE CELEBRITY TRAITORS** Richard Osman and Marina Hyde react to the gobsmacking Celebrity Traitors final live.  Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Assistant Producer: Imogen Marriott Social Producer: Bex Tyrrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm marina hyde and i'm richard osman it's essentially going to be half an hour of just the the brain explode emoji amazing what does happen i okay way to throw all my loving congratulations for alan car yeah amazing What a booking. What a booking. There is so much to unpick there. I'm watching a lot of people go to pieces. We've just watched a lot of people go to pieces, Richard. I mean, what we saw there was probably the, you know, Stephen Frye's side, probably the two most intelligent people in the game being utterly outthought and outmaneubered by two people who would be, Less traditionally thought of as intelligent. Firstly, Alan for beating them.

And secondly, Joe Mahler for telling them exactly from the start of that episode, what was going to happen, which was having gone with Jonathan, it is Alan and it is Cat. And Nick, God love Nick Muhammad. You said to me, we said he could get in his own head. I believe that may have occurred, Richard. Yes, I think that's what's called, in your own head, isn't it? I mean, I mean, God bless David. He was consistent from start

to the very end, wasn't he? He was wrong to the absolute, I mean, really, I, okay, but Joe Marla also got in his own head because that absolute, having told everyone, and they knew which steps they were doing everything in, they're going to pick off David first, as we discussed, when we were talking about this last week. And then that vote for, I mean, that vote for Kat is the biggest mistake in the game, right? I don't know that it was. I think it was the right thing to do because the next thing to do is the second that, you know, the second that, I mean, listen, this is one step further on,

but when Alan decides to end the game, despite the fact that the person he's just voted for is still there, that would be David that's the moment that Nick should kind of go oh I see it there was sort of genuinely what it goes to show is however intelligent you are

you do not have the benefit that we have of watching this across a month and being able to think about it and talk about it in the meantime you are literally absolutely locked away for six days and your brain absolutely gets fried and if Nick Muhammad's brain gets fried

then anyone's brain that's right. There was only one brain that wasn't fried there, and that was Joe Marla. And I think he thought, well, let's get rid of cat now. That's a simple one. Then I persuade them to get rid of Alan. But something had happened

that I don't think we were privy to between David and Nick. Okay, but I actually, yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, some, there was, there did seem to be, I agree, a sort of lacuna in the edit was some thing that we didn't. quite know.

I would say it's a lacuna matata. A lacuna matata. But I tell you what, because at the last round table, you know, that was obviously the moment to banish cat because of course one of the traitors is a woman. I know I keep saying this. But that was the moment to just logically banish cat and realise that you're appearing on an entertainment format on a public service. on a public service broadcaster in the year 2025

and one of them's going to be a woman. Yeah. And again, that's the sort of thing that you can't edit into the show. They will have those discussions about the makeup of who the traitors might be and we would not be privy to those. And by the way, neither should we. That doesn't make for

particularly edifying television. But certainly that is something. You can still write it on your slate, Richard. Exactly. You can still write it on your slate. But it's, I mean, Alan must think it's Christmas. I mean, genuinely, too, he, it's that, you know, it's like, you know, judo, you know, the bigger the guy you're up against the better in some ways because he used their weight

against them. He absolutely bamboozled two ostensibly very, very, very bright men. And the only person he couldn't bamboozle was a former rugby player. But he, but he, I thought, I mean, yeah, he was, he actually found the biggest form of mental strength in the air as in all the way through he found complete mental strength i mean he was mentally incredibly strong as we've said all the way along not only was he brilliant but he was an an absolute insanely good entertainment booking throughout yeah and so yeah i i thought i thought his strength in that last episode and then of course we finally have seen some tears in the celebrity

version because in the normal version you get a lot of tears It was like, I haven't missed the tears, but then I found his tears. Everyone having to apologize to him for the fact he'd won. But that's, you know, that's genuinely, I think one of the issues with the regular traitors is that thing of the money does actually mean something. So the idea of taking it from somebody else is almost a bigger issue than it is in the celebrity one. I know you're taking it from charities, but in a way we don't ever hear about the charities. A charity is still getting it.

Yeah, exactly. So someone is getting it. And so, you know, if you're Nick or David, it's not like, oh my God, I've lost this thing that could have helped my family. You know, so I think they had a genuine, you know, when Alan, I mean, he bought this and he's in tears because he, it was the end of a very, very, very long week. We've all had very, very, very long weeks like that. And we get to the end of it and we win. So I don't think it were tears of guilt or anything particularly. I think it's just tears of, oh my God, I can stop. Oh, the tension is dissolved. Yeah, the tension is dissolved. But yeah, I think he played an amazing last show. I really did. Around the round table, I knew he was a traitor. I was almost convinced that he wasn't. You know, he probably...

He really sold it out the bag. I mean, really, really did. And actually, once he'd lost cat, that was very tricky. Yes, yes. To retrieve it from that is phenomenal. And, yeah, I mean, I... I think that getting rid of cat then was that Joe Marla putting cat on the thing

was probably the biggest mistake. I used to think the biggest mistake in the game was not, was killing Lucy when they should have killed Nick, but as it turned out, Nick got to make him like that. Yeah, can you get Nick there? Actually, perhaps Lucy would have found him out. But, you know, we talked in, after the end of the last episode, there was such a simple route through this.

for Nick and for Joe. And even if you're Nick, by the way, there's a simple route through which is you vote out Kat, you vote out Alan, then if you are Nick, you have a choice. You can say, look, if I think there's still a traitor here, if I do think it's Joe, I can vote Joe out, I still win because I believe that one of these two is a faithful. The idea of not voting out Alan, there was nothing to be gained

in keeping Alan in. There was zero. throw. Why did Nick vote to end the game? Yeah. That was madness. There were three of them left and he knows as well as anyone who watches the game that what's the difference. There might as well be two of you. And as we've said, it is a different form of stakes because it's all going to a charity, whichever one it may be. Yeah, I, I, why did he, why did he throw the green, the green smoking? Because, you know, there have been a conversation, genuinely there's a conversation there that we

haven't been privy to between him and David at some point, right? So, you know, the two of them are convinced of each other. The lacuna. The lacuna matata. The lacuna theory. In that same conversation, I'm certain of it, between Nick and Alan or between David and Adam. So I don't see a single use in any of the game other than Nick thinking, perhaps, oh, what if the two of them turn on me, you know, possibly.

But that aside, I don't think they. anything to be to be lost by by getting rid of Alan it does it it it's it seems crazy when those green flames came up i couldn't believe it yeah i thought i mean i i always you have to do the thing in any show like this of you don't look at the time because the time will tell you um yes what's what's going to happen in the show because you go oh they've only got three minutes left so we don't have enough time for enough for another round of voting so i wasn't at the time at all uh and yeah at that moment i would have given any money that Nick had a final ace off his sleeve and would have gone red and would have got rid of Alan

that he didn't. It just goes to show what a great format this is because, but anybody watching at home saying, oh, we got it wrong, he did this at the other. I don't think many people would be able to play this game much better than Nick Mohammed has played it. And that right to the very end, his brain just let him down. And the only person his brain didn't let him down at any point really was poor Joe. And you know what?

It was the friends that let him down. If your brain doesn't let you know your friends will. Yeah. Well, David thought it was about the friends he'd met along the way, I think. He almost actually said that at a certain point. I, can I, okay, it is,

we've talked about what it's, what it's meant for, you know, that it's been amazing for linear television. It's been so extraordinary. I was talking to someone today, today and they were saying that it's for the BBC it has been a huge something like 10% of the time spent on all BBC services has been to do with celebrity traitors and 51% of all the talk about the show happens in the 9 till 11 essentially window that you see it or you might

watch it on a caption it's the biggest 16 to 34's audience of the year apart from adolescence. Biggest unscripted ever since, since Megan and Harry's Oprah special, also iconic. Also iconic. And that first episode, because of course with the consolidation, it's now the biggest single episode on TV so far this year, and it's likely to be the highest series. So it's been this unbelievable kind of moment where everybody has, I know it's not saving it all, but I wonder what they'll. get to tonight for the live final because what was it what was um gavin and stacy at christmas like 12.3 on the day or something i know they talked over the 20 million in the end and this this i don't

think will be far off 16 17 million but the other interesting thing about it is is the like we talked about on the regular episode we talked about um dancing with the stars in the states which is the american pretty come dancing and how the feedback loop of going very big on ticot and instagram has led so many people, younger people, to watch the show live on ABC. And it's the same with this, because we can all, you know, on Twitter you go, I'm going to avoid spoilers. But with Instagram and TikTok, part of the fun of this show is watching the reaction videos from the people who are in it.

And you cannot do that if you haven't watched it live. You really, you know, you, you've slightly missed that wave. And this show has been absolutely incredible for the socials, but the socials have absolutely driven everybody back to watching it on linear TV, which is amazing. I mean, whether, whether you can repeat this, I don't know, I know for a fact everyone will be trying and they will. We know for a fact that the normal version of it that will start in the very early days of January, if it follows the same pattern as it has in the last couple of years, will be bigger than that's ever been before. Because so many people said, I've spoken to so many people who

said, oh, I've never watched it before. I sort of felt I was behind it because I thought I could watch the celebrity one because, you know, it felt like a separate thing. And now they will all feed into the ordinary version. This episode is brought to you by Sky and Sky's new original film, Nuremberg, in Cinemar's Friday the 14th of November. Now, the trials in Nuremberg weren't just a courtroom drama. They're also the story of how Allied forces shaped the reality of international justice

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A story of taking phenomenal risks in the pursuit of truth and justice. Watch Sky Original Nuremberg, only in cinemas Friday the 14th of November. It's like people watching the Olympics once every four years. is going, oh, no one told me sport was good. Yeah. Oh, my God, no one told me that reality game shows were good. I think we've been, honestly, we've been telling that for 25 years. And finally, one has come along that's proved it to you.

And I, yeah, I mean, it's, and I know you're going to stick with a handball for the next four years. Now you've become this. Exactly. Yeah, I watch Handball League now. I just, yeah, I went to watch. Isn't there something about the release schedule that helps, which, that sometimes you sort of slightly feel with something like, I'm a celebrity. which as another show you know I love but you slightly feel like oh my god I've got to give an hour or 90 minutes that every single night whereas people feel like I think there's something very clever

about not doing it not having to be every night and not being completely stripped and it's just two or sometimes three in a week I think there's something about that you can you can join in before it's too late and you think oh I'll never catch up yeah exactly you got you got three or four days to catch up if you really want to. So if you want to watch it live and be on TikTok, you watch it live and be on TikTok. If you're, say, my mum, you can watch it on Sunday or Monday

and you're still absolutely fine. And again, these things always look kind of, you know, considered in retrospect. And they're not, you know, there's a lot of luck as to why these things work and why these things hit. And a lot of it is, we didn't know that viewers had this sort of behavior,

but this seems to suit them very, very well. And there is an audience for whom, you know, scheduled television is like a wonderful novelty. And they're like, oh, my God, have you heard of this thing, a show that's on at the same time every week. This is amazing. You have to sit in front of your television and actually watch it. And, you know, there's a joy in that. And it's a joy that. It is like sport.

You know, you and I, this is, you know, people say sports like war by other means. Traders is like sport by other means. There's so much to it that you and I, we've. talked a lot about this, but there's so much and sitting down, having to watch it at the particular times, but where something that, where obviously in the great scheme of things, the stakes are

negligible, and yet they are also absolutely everything. Genuinely, if you think about the emotions you go through in the last five minutes of that show, it is hard to equate them to anything else other than sport, other than unscripted

drama, which is what sport is, and other than the thing of, oh my god i genuinely i knew that that could happen i didn't think that it would happen and traitors there's something about the format that seems to just hit that spot every single time because you know we did think after the last one well after the last one i was saying i there's there's an obvious route through this next episode maybe it'd be boring maybe we'll finally have a boring traitors final because joe and nicks should be able to absolutely walk this but again you forget that they don't have a week between shows. They haven't seen the edit. They haven't seen all the little

interviews that we've seen. You know, they are in this environment. In the same way, if you're playing in the rider cup, I'm not absolutely comparing it to the rider cup. But if you're in the rider cup, something happens to your golf swing that doesn't happen when you're not in the rider cup. Something happens to Nick Muhammad's brain here that would not happen in the usual course of events to Nick Muhammad. He could be cool about these things and just go, oh no, hold on. There's, sorry, there's one guy here who literally we were all asked to go around and say, look at each other in the eye and say, I am a faithful, and he burst out laughing when he did it. Why don't I maybe, but I just maybe think I'm not going to throw my green thing into that.

Maybe I just, maybe I will vote out the man who burst out laughing when he had to say, I am a faithful. You know, the very fact that he didn't do that and the very fact that he takes that extra layer he doesn't need to do of saying, wait a minute, I'm so convinced that Joe is a faithful. I'm so convinced that can only mean one thing. He's a traitor, you know, which is we all know that the cleverest people are the people who know they don't know everything, right? The people who absolutely understand that the mysteries of the world are beyond them. You know, you know people that are stupid when they tell you they know.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, if you think the most dangerous people are the ones who think things are very simple. Exactly. Whereas Nick That's why we're all obsessed with this show because that's what politics is now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's had a... We can't think about the world, which is all for the people who think it's very simple.

He's had a whole lifetime of... You know what? Counterintuition has worked for me a lot in my life. He's worked for me a lot. Maybe it's going to work one more time here. But occasionally in life, something turns up that looks like an incredibly faithful, lovable rugby player and just is an incredibly...

incredibly faithful, you play it. That's just all that's in front of you. But Nick's brain with the radar that it has was unable to process that that might be the case. It's great. It's about human nature. This is why this show is so wonderful.

It's about we're all idiots. We're all being given so many data points. We're all being asked to make judgments all day, every single day. And it's really, really, really hard. And it's lovely to see that played out. Yeah, it's everybody's got a plan till they're smacked in the mouth. You know, everyone, it was watching those plans go out.

First of all, another thing I did think was they all had such a great sense of occasion, you know, they really do that endgame very, very well. Nobody was smiling and laughing in that at all. There was literally no, none of them could actually find it, which I really like. And, but yeah, it was the, I mean, we were having to. to stand up for basically the since the end game stuff. I couldn't sit down for any of it. It was too much. But TV

moments of the year. It's like a can't sit down, isn't it where you can't sit down? I know. I could just couldn't possibly sit down, but TV moment of the year was Alan, was Adam revealing it. I was beside myself. Beside myself. He is the king of all he surveys now, I believe. Oh, I mean,

there's nothing that there is nothing that every single channel in this country is not currently throwing Alan Carr. What with Alan Carr? I mean he became a different person but he was still always the same one he'd always been it was an absolute masterclass in it so him and Joe have done the best from it yeah Joe is definitively the other winner because he just got it right all the way through and the two moments the moment where it became apparent that Nick had written down

Joe's name look on Joe's face was like Bambi's mother had been killed or something, just that thought of, mate, I've done everything here, we're teamies, you know? We're hundies. Yeah, we're hundies. In the end where he goes, well, I misread that.

And you're like, well, I mean, you sort of did and you didn't in a funny kind of way. I mean, I don't think you could have read it because it was on a different dimension. You know, Nick should have stayed where Joe was rather than Joe trying to go where Nick was. That's the only error here. Joe didn't make an error. I think he was right to get rid of Kat at that time. I think he knew it was Kat and Alan. And conversations could have and should have been had that would have made that a simple win. But there's nothing ever simple. Well, they kept putting them in the car. They kept putting them in the cars. Both journeys they had Nick and Joe together and Kat and David and Alan.

together so they were really trying to put people it gave them enough time we have to talk to our lovely stable mate david about his experience of that because as a very bright man i would be fascinated for him to tell us what happened to his brain throughout that thing what what was it that normally serves him so well that served him so ill throughout the entire process i'd be fascinated to know and anyone who's being booked for the next series and there's amazing names being thrown around. Imagine that now. That's a whole other level of second guessing yourself

because you've seen how other celebrities have done this. You've seen how other very smart people have done it. And as always with the traitors, the mistakes they make next time will simply be a reaction to the different mistakes that were made this time. And they will in January. Well, they weren't in January

because that's already been filmed, but anyone who can see either of those games will, I wondered, I was thinking whether there are things, whether you could, whether there's ways that you could innovate in the game, even if you only did it temporarily. The business of not having, I know we'd laugh about the floor of you, you don't have to have a, you don't actually have to catch a traitor. I wonder whether there could be cash bonuses for getting a traitor. Yes.

Interesting. I was just thinking that in the night last night, thinking, I wonder if you could. What's the show done to you? But you know I don't sleep anyway, so at least at this time I've got something fun to think about. But I was thinking, in order to avoid the sort of tactical herding, or some people don't do it tactically, but either way it's the result of it. You could do cash, you could add to the prize pot. Yeah, I think, well, I think advantage and disadvantages of that. advantage of it is it does, you know, genuinely speak to a genuine flaw in the format,

the disadvantage is the same thing, which is actually as a producer, sometimes you don't really want to draw attention to that. Because I mean, we, you know, big fans of the show know it, and people we're talking to you right now know it and understand it. But, you know, is that generally understood in the nation at large? I don't know, because they're watching a different thing. And, you know, it's only if we get to the stage where, the players, where you can't even do an edit where it looks like the players are trying to get rid of traitors, that's the point at which you have to do something about the format. If in the next civilian one or the next celebrity one, literally nobody is giving you that

soundbite of, I can't believe we haven't got a traitor yet, we've got to get a traitor. If nobody was giving you that soundbite, if even one person is giving you that soundbite, you just put it in and it's easily done, if nobody gives you that sound bite, that's the point in which you have to go, or maybe there is a 10,000 pound bite. bonus for getting out a traitor in the first, you know, three shows or something. Yeah. I'm glad your evenings, staring at the scene, thinking at celebrity traitors' format points. Well, thank you. You know, I think I only aim to please you. Now, I liked, they kept an

extra bit of drama in that very end bit, which we never had seen before, because normally they do go and when we don't see them all at the end. So I liked actually, yeah, and then actually having to see the reactions that really worked for me because it's a bit like when we keep talking about Mike Donnell putting more and more reveals in why would you not have those reveals in the final things? In the regular

one you can't because in the regular one you know tensions are heightened and actually people do feel a bit you know in this one everyone knows it's a game and I know that during the show that you know everyone buys into the artifice of the thing but the second that spell is broken the second Alan says I'm a traitor and there's tears

you can see Nick and David are not are not thinking oh no, now I need to be nice to Alan. They're thinking, of course, of course, this is fine. Of course this is okay. Well played. You know, you absolutely best at us. That's nicely done. And, you know, even Joe Marla, who, you know,

if anyone would have the right to take offense to be him, you know, no one. We wanted to see Joe and Nick have a hug, you know, down by the fire pit. We wanted to see, we wanted all those moments. So I was really glad that we got those this time. So the winners are Terrestrial Television, which is done, unbelievably. worth of it. The BBC. BBC, for sure. Alan Carr, I mean,

Alan Carr does more pilots than I won't say that, but he does a lot of pilots. And I forget this is like... I was doing someone really special, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought, you know, Joey, producer, can you edit that bit out when I said the thing about someone doing a lot of pilots? Go Mala, who suddenly everyone

recognises and sees what it is that he can do and what he can bring to things. Most importantly, the winners are viewers because people don't have to make these shows and it's rare these things come along and i just think of the families watching this together parents watching with grandparents people at work talking to people perhaps haven't spoken to in a while just a lovely thing to have in the middle of our culture made by brilliant program makers presented by a brilliant team made by a brilliant team and you know this is what television is supposed to be all about which is making the world a

slightly happier place for an hour. Such a spark of joy in a really darkening world. Exactly that. And I've really, really loved our chats about it as well. They've been, they've been, I've loved it. We'll have to do it for the regular one as well. I mean, tactically, I mean, whether we ever get it right, I don't know, but I genuinely, I find it fascinating. And more importantly, as you say, it's lovely to talk in such a consequential way about such an inconsequential thing. What a time to be alive. Yeah. It means nothing, but it also

means everything. Yeah, exactly that. So thank you very much listeners. Thanks so much listeners. So those people watching us live or people listen to this tomorrow on the dog walk. It's been an absolute blast and we will see everyone for just one of

our, I guess, our regular episodes next Tuesday. Remember those? Yeah. I've lost all the days of week now, Richard. I exist out of time now. So, yeah, see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday, everyone. Bye.

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And I'm Sarah Churchwell. This week, on Journey Through Time, we are exploring the story of the gunpowder plot of 1605. The story of how a small group of Catholics engaged in what would have been the most devastating terrorist attack in all. of British history. The plan was ruthless, blow-up Parliament, King James I, and most of his family, all in a single blow. The series will tell the story of treason and traitors, of a group of men led by the charismatic Robert Catesby, who believed that the only option left to them to win their rights as Catholics with the violent destruction of the Stuart State. We look at the story of Guy Fawkes, the nation's most famous traitor, from his recruitment to becoming the plots fall guy, and ultimately

being tortured and killed. Finally, we find out why this plot is still remembered now, 400 years later. Listen to Journey Through Time wherever you get your podcasts.