The Rest Is Entertainment - CELEBRITY TRAITORS: Week Three Reaction

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

How did Jonathan Ross survive another week? Was Stephen Fry the ‘leader of the faithful’? Is Nick Mohammed too smart for The Traitors? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde assess another jaw-dropping week of Celebrity Traitors. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at ⁠therestisentertainment.com ⁠ The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca slash Y Amex. Well, hello and welcome to this special bonus episode of the rest is entertainment with me Marina Hyde oh good and me Richard Osmond I almost forgot my name there I'm so shook I'm sorry I've got the wait till next

Wednesday to get to the bottom of that I mean what an inevitable thing to say but one of the big dogs is gone and it's the wrong one wow classic traitors so much happened in the last 10 minutes that I want to forensically we will go back over both of the last two

episodes but goodness me it is five Finally, it is finally danger. It's actually danger time now. Oshikoko. There's only nine of them left and three of them are traitors. The banishment of someone, I don't think we use titles in banishments, but okay, they did. Sir Stephen Pride.

Isn't he like Mr. Nick Mohamed? We don't use the title, but anyway, we did. And Claudia said, you've lost such a powerful player. Now, I would question that. I would say they lost an influential player, but he failed to use that influence to meaningfully shape the game. he was waiting to move, and I think that's quite possible, because obviously he understands the whole, we don't need to get anyone just to get, stay in the slip stream, et cetera. If he was waiting to move, he left it too late.

He did. It's tricky again, because he is sort of a way, you know, when he's horrified that they said, oh, you're the leader of the pack. And I get it because you don't want to be seen as that. But he sort of knows deep down that he was, and that's why he'd had to play it slightly under the radar. In an earlier episode, when the Big Dog theory had been floated for the very first time last week, he did say well of course i thought the same thing myself so i'm not totally convinced that he you know also can we just before we get on to anything can we talk about this position that doesn't

exist which is the lead traitor it's like yes this isn't the thing guys i just want you want to know i think i've got an idea of like the number two and number three traitors that's easier but i think it's probably more important to get the lead traitor it's ridiculous it's like or you know the head vampire like you know max and the lost boys there isn't a lead traitor like that deck of cards that the CIA had when they were trying to kill all of the... I mean, we confidently predicted we talked last time we were all together, last Thursday, everybody. We could not see a way in which Jonathan survived

the next two episodes. He's played a blinder. And yet, there he is. And yet, there he is. He's played, and he's actually relaxed into it, even more so. And he's got the most powerful of the faithful Joe Marla literally sitting opposite him, staring at him, saying I know that it is you.

I'm going to do the whole podcast like this. Okay, to you, because I've got my, for the benefit of the tape, I have my arms folded. Joe Marlitt is playing this game with the agro of a civilian and I am 100% of him. He's so angry. He is, that's why he's just perfect for the show because he is, you know what,

no respecter of status inside or outside the house. He just says, I know I've got one job. Like he goes on the rugby pitch, I know I've got one job. We score more points than the other team. That's what we do. He's got one job to leave faithfuls there instead of traitors. It's the only job there. No ego, no nothing.

It's just let's get it done. Do I have to bring the harvest in myself? Yes, apparently you do. I mean, he really has absolutely effing had it, hasn't he? I think if at any point two people as different, yet in some way similar as Nick Muhammad and Joe Marla team up and attending you the same thing, either one of two things is happening, either they are both traitors. Or they are both faithfuls and they are right.

And that might be the time to go, okay, why don't we just throw everything behind the leader of the faithful? Because if there's a leader of the traitors, there must be a leader of the faithful. And if you made it show... There's not real positions. I just want to restate this. Not real positions. I am the assistant to the regional manager. That would be if there's six of them out of nine.

Okay, but have they missed that moment because... It's still doable, but not really. Well, not really because I have... I mean, I know we're having to go do lots of things in reverse here. But given who is facing the face, a lot of faces in the sentence, facing the face-to-face murder. Facing the face-to-face. Kate, Nick and Lucy.

Yeah. I mean, surely you're going to have to get rid of Nick because he's just too dangerous. Kate, we'll have to come to that in a minute. Kate can stay as long as you want. Stay as long as you like. Stay as long as you like. Lucy is, without a question, was one of the first people in these episodes to start saying, well, excuse me, we need to play the game.

as she's seen the civilian version of the game being played we need to actually start getting numbers before we come in here we need to have theories and we need to back them all the way she understands that that needs to happen she's more dangerous as you said she's really come into her own

and she has said two things in the last episode both of which I heartily agree with David is saying well get on to David and all that but he's saying well of course I'm going to be in trouble tomorrow and Lucy said we tend to move on to be honest yes it was absolutely right because what she's trying to say is we're playing this

not in the way that I've seen it played by the civilians when they've played it before. We start in you every day. If David's in trouble in the normal version of traitors, they'd be right back there the following day on him, saying, well, now I'm just going to keep doing this until... And then she said, hold on a minute, what if they're not geniuses? Yeah. You know, which is right. And if you ally that with what Stephen said at the end, which is this game is stacked against

the faithfuls, that's absolutely right. Thank you. They don't need to do a lot. No. They don't need to be geniuses. You don't need to beat yourself up. You don't need to get caught up in the maelstrom of he said, she said, all of that stuff. You just have to take a little step back.

I think probably in that environment, talking to people who've been in it, and they said you are, the environment is fervid. You're like, you're just, you're in it the whole time. You should just sit back. Don't worry too much about the traitors. You know, only one or two people are going to win this whole thing anyway. It's probably not going to be you. There's 19 people and just play the game. But is Nick going to survive to be able to.

I mean, surely you would have to, he's just too dangerous because he's too, I mean, the thing he did where he's strategically said, I'm going to let you win to Joe Marla. And then I wouldn't say this was the biggest mistake made at that round table that we've just seen. But it was the second biggest mistake, I think probably to say, oh, I did this by the way I fixed it. Because for whatever reason, if they have nothing to cling on to, they say, oh, that's such, it's so stupid. It is genuinely the opposite of what a traitor would do to say, oh, I think something. You just wouldn't say. Well, Kate says this is the only evidence I have of lying. You think what him, him telling the truth about something he just did is the only evidence you have of lying.

And then, you know, at the end, she said, well, of course, there's only one person who's shown there willing to do the traitor's work and get rid of faithfuls. And he said, he's literally just said to you, in my estimation, there were more faithfuls on the other team. And so I'm trying to save faithfuls as much as I can. And he's trying to explain that. And after you go, yeah, you're trying to get rid of faithful. I think, though, it's, I mean, it's tricky. We have mentioned before that it's very difficult to be clever in this game. It is, do you know what?

And I love Nick, as you know, in every way, both on screen and off screen. I think it was a step too far in terms of gameplay, and I think he probably knows that as well. I think the moment he said, no, I did this deliberately, he's thinking, there are board game evenings where this would really work. Yeah, this would slay. As a gambit. And people are going, do you know what? He's absolutely right. Yeah, he's absolutely right.

Whereas on this, people are going, oh, but what? You mean, you lied? Yeah. It's like, yeah, I think. They're playing one dimensional chess. Yes. they don't even that's too much of a stretch and in it honestly he would win if you play two dimensional chess but he's choosing to play four dimensional the biggest mistake though

Alan Tony Montana car saying but making a real bitch and saying oh wait I have got a shield yeah that's a that is ding dong and who spotted it yeah joe marla yeah and even in the round table when they're you know you don't have to be like you know you don't have to have this sort of mood he goes yeah but I'm trying to get rid of traitors and Jonathan goes we're all trying to get rid of traitors and he just goes Well, we're not all trying to get rid of the traders, are we? I think amazing. Well, in a funny way, someone else who's also gone.

I mean, who also sort of slightly plays it like a civilian, was Mark, who was very emotional. And the emotion. I felt so gutted for him. So did I. Yeah, it was like watching a competitive version of the death penalty when you know that both people are innocent. Yeah. And you're like, oh, no, this is a lot to go through to get rid of one fairly useful, faithful. Well, David, hello, welcome to the game, Mr. Olajoga.

I mean, I am going to use the title. Mr. Ola Shoga, Obe. Yes. He got threatened and suddenly you think, oh, he's turned up. Yeah, he has absolutely turned up to the game now. Be careful because you're clever. It is amazing how someone's saying we need to be analytical, because they do actually do need to stop.

They do actually, we are nearing the point where they're actually going to have to do something. Yes. We always say it, and it's absolutely correct. When there are nine of you left, and three of them are traitors, and those three could vote as a block from here on in and all they've got to do is muddy the water one more time and get like a fourth along to go with them very hard to beat that and then get that person got rid of and suddenly you are you are.

But if you're cat or if you're Alan or if you're Jonathan, who's a weaker position, you don't want to share all the money. No, that's the point. The only thing that can kill the traitors now. All of them going ooh over the 10,000 pounds that they would never do a corporate for. I think I've seen enough of that now So, you know, I think that if the traitors wanted to just team up

And go, the three of us will get through to the end of this Which actually would make sense in terms of charity and what have you I still think it's hard for him Yeah, but there's also the muscle memory of every episode of traitors you've ever seen That makes you go, oh no, I do sort of want to turn on my fellow traitors You can see Kat sort of desperate to turn on Well, I'm sorry, how come that it was not said in the turret, although we haven't seen their second turret, but she mentioned him at the round

table and it wasn't discussed. And now she's done it again, also at the round table. Intriguing. Yeah, I think Jonathan's quite calm about it, right? Yeah. There's no, I think he understands that the three of them having at least some sort of unity is probably useful. If it's open warfare, he knows he's going to lose. That's the thing. He needs everything to stay under the radar a little bit. He knows that Cat has more power than him. You can see, you can see, he knows that. And he knows that you have to be a person who says names that some of the rest of the I mean that was a large part of the problem with Stephen. He couldn't make a mark. He didn't want to put his pen down and say, well, I think it's, he couldn't say it. Some people thought

there was some kind of clever alliance with Kate Garroway who also apparently, professionally is unable to have an opinion. I think that she said, it's because of my job that I can't have opinions. I think you have an opinion by now. Yeah, I shouldn't be allowed to vote. I cannot vote. I'm so sorry. So you think Nick goes from Kate, Nick and Lucy. He's obviously too dangerous. So Nick got rid of Stephen. Nick has built an alliance with Joe,

but has also tried to build an alliance with Cat and Jonathan, who he thinks are traitors. And can we take a moment to note that that is the way to win this game? Yes, and he's explicitly said what he's doing, which is I'm going to keep them so they think I could never, never turn on them and then I'll throw them under the past. I will say quickly before I go on. Genius, though he is.

He's also said a lot of other names that are real. So he said, look, I believe it to be Cat and Jonathan. The best way to play this game is to keep them around because I need them to keep me around and we'll worry about who the traitors are at the very end. And that's the way to play the game and that's the way he's playing it. They don't know he

is doing that. They don't have that information. The information they do have is that he's sort of on side with them. But they know he's clever and they know he's done something that's really off the wall in terms of doing something very strategic to sabotage a game. But he was wrong.

For me, it's too much of a liability. I would get red. Do you think? I love him that I would get rid. See, I would worry not more about Lucy. I know what you mean. But I see there's an argument for Lucy because with Nick... I'd still recruit her.

Yeah. But Nick is so clever. He's like a big judo player and you can use his weight against him. Whereas Lucy, there's no way, you know, if she gets something between the teeth, she's not going to let it go. Whereas with Nick, you might be at a Jedi, I bet you could. Yeah. Well, God, I bet I couldn't. but so I think probably not Kate because where's the benefit

and getting rid of Kate and also there is some heat on her already in the parlance of the show in the parlance of the show well if they were to get Jonathan and they recruited again then you would have to recruit David or Lucy surely I am not sure they would recruit if they were down to because what's getting so small now yeah so there may be none of that I think if they got down to what if they get two traitors in a row I think if they got rid of a traitor now so we're going to be down to eight

after this group, after this thing. So the next banishment will be down to seven. But it could happen very quickly with Ellen, regrettably now after this Shield incident. It could suddenly, having gone nowhere and when they have had so little success, it could swing around so quickly on him.

It was a huge, it was a big error that. Yeah, it was a huge error. But then, you know, Jonathan made a series of a series of errors and has absolutely because people are overthinking and are not sticking to their guns. If they get a traitor next, They don't recruit.

If they get two traitors in a row, I suspect they do recruit. David or Lucy. David or Lucy. Or Nick if he's in there. Whoever is still in there out of Nick and Lucy. I can't see Nick going, even though he obviously fully understands the game. It's funny how, unless everyone understands it in the same way. Yeah, that's the problem.

Yeah. It's like if when you're playing chess against someone who doesn't know how to play chess, then they can be really hard. They can literally just throw the board up in the air. Right. Celia. Celia... I mean, epic. Yeah, she's amazing.

Okay, if Kate Garroway's stock is going slightly down because not, you know, not showing up enough as an entertainment booking, Celia Imri is just every... I'm watching her go up and up every second second she's on the screen. Absolutely hilarious. There is a fan...

Do you have heard about this mad fan theory? I'm quite into some of the fan theories. Celia has been named as a sort of detective character and she's some sort of mole within the game. I don't it's bizarre how much like traction this has got I don't believe that can be the case because what we as we said before joy of this particular game is that you you've the viewer does feel omniscient and sometimes there are little bits like you know Diane and Ross and that's a sort of fun thing but it's not it's not a sort of huge like

I mean it gets to be like the like the TV moment of the year or whatever but it's not it's not something like you'd say oh well that's just a complete swirs now you've just fooled me and you pulled the world over you can't hide things for me I was saying how having spent some time with CDR over the last year, absolutely every single thing she has done is consistent with her own personality. Yeah. The traitors have said, who's the weakest, who's the most two-faced. And it's a staple of reality TV and has been forever and ever and ever,

or, you know, lying yourself in order of attractiveness, all of those things. And it's a brilliant way of getting amongst a group and a brilliant way of exposing who traitors are. So it's a really neat thing. But then they go, okay, so who's the most two-faced? That is textbook. that goes to the heart of everything, you know, because other traitors going to say one of themselves. And Celia just goes, oh, I think me, don't you? Yeah.

Oh, I think I do. Because I often say, I like people, but I don't really. And even others who obviously understands a format very, very well and understands it as an entertainment format, said, I mean, I thought we were going to have tears, you know, shouting, people storming off. It's just something, no, I really just would have to put myself forward on this one. And Kate, to her immense benefit as well. When they said, he's the weakest player, she goes, I sort of have to put my hand up to. that one you know it's so you put a hand up for something it's like i'm a huge john le carrie fan uh but

you know there are the carrie novels where you're in the middle of them and so many people are playing so many people off against each other and there's so many different sides and it's like you know there's suddenly a dodecahedron of your prisms of light going everywhere that was nick and joe marla choosing between jonathan and stephen and having to fix who we go for because of who's in the different groups. I mean, that was, even La Cary would have had to have a couple of pages where he sort of went back and did

a little bit of explanation before he did. I mean, that was so through the looking glass. I mean, I love it. For me, that's, yeah, I absolutely loved it. But you just think, you're not going to be, Nick, Nick, I know, amazing. And Joe's like, it was, but rolled with it. Yeah, but you say, even, but when it happened,

you think, absolutely get it. I mean, he's wrong. Nick. unusually. But the one thing you're definitely thinking is that is not going to play at the round table, my friend. Nobody is going to go. If he goes, no, but think about it. No, no one's thinking about it. This is a venue where people think that if you're not sufficiently grateful for having a shield, then you're definitely a traitor. Which in this case, if you actually forget, you have one. I think that is a bit of a haller. But it is very root one. They hate anything

that deviates from their lack of imagination. It may be a thing. And we haven't really talked about that because they are all, you know, they come at it from, you know, different spheres. They all sort of know each other, but they all have their own careers that are sort of adjacent to each other, that they have not been able to coalesce in any useful way. They do have an independence that is lacking from the regular version. Well, as we keep saying, they want to, the life on the outside is very important. That takes primacy. It is for two different audiences that are doing this.

Well, there's one person in there who probably just the one person in there who could be immediately useful to you in the outside world and that's Jonathan because he's got his own chat show and he's very well connected and this or the other one being in being in his orbit it would be a useful thing and you can see an awful lot of people in there think that and that's not something that anyone has to think about in the regular version but that's why it is so great having Joe in there because I mean Joe 100% that would be you know writes a book next year he goes on Jonathan Ross absolutely could see that he does not give a toss oh he's not going to Halloween party. Let me tell you that.

He's going to get it shut down. Yeah. Even though he, like, you can immediately, there's like 50 costumes that would be amazing on him. Yeah, I know. Jonathan Ross has a famous Halloween party every year. Yeah. So, point that out. Check the arrivals, because I don't think I'm going to be seeing Joe Marla among them. But maybe I will.

Maybe I will, yeah. I don't think we've seen Joe. I don't think we'll be seeing Claire. I think there's a number of people. There's a number of people who will not be at that party. But yeah, so Joe seems to be immune to it. Well, actually, it's really uncalled to be clever. Yeah, a little bit. There's a lot of that, right?

So it's just very difficult. I've only just noticed that thing, because it was slightly out of character, Olushoge saying the thing about Stephen Frye is he's a genius. And that, of course, is someone who's enormously clever. He kept saying it as well. By the way, this way they are murdering this week, which I don't think they've done in the UK version before, where you see the traitors when they murder you,

but they have done in the US version, and it's incredibly exciting and affecting. I'm very much looking forward. I'm dying for it. but that's the thing as well I mean Kate is going it's just definitely going to be me and you go talk us through that talk us talk us through why

the traitors would be more likely to get rid of you than get rid of say one interesting thing go on go in your little diary room and say something I have to say I because you need every angle on this I think she genuinely understands that she is playing it differently to other people she did a funny video

this week trying to sort of lean into that whole thing that Alan Carter had said about going into the broom cupboard so she did that I have to say, Alan and Kat did a TikTok where they, like, did it to nine to five and they put on, like, we're getting ready and getting on their traitors cloaks. And of course, that's born to millions of fan theories because where's Jonathan? You know, and they were all going down the street. Celebrities are slightly liabilities in that way because I don't think you really should be doing that, probably. I think it probably rather you didn't do that.

It is the now, the current eternal conundrum of the publicity officer, which is they want you to do TikTok, but also they don't want you to do. do a TikTok. Or if they do, they say, can you do exactly the TikTok I want you to do? I will do a TikTok for you, but it has to be mine. So they were sort of skipping down the street and there was no Jonathan. And so then everyone was like, well, they've just done a spoiler that there's no Jonathan or, you know, why didn't they pass a bus? But then they wouldn't do it. Yeah. So they haven't done that. It is worth noting that across the last two episodes, every single vote that came in, not a single vote for Alan, not a single vote for Kat. Those days are gone. I don't know because with that Alan thing, will people even remember?

I mean, Alan says, you know, this. I mean, the trouble is because Joe's got his Jonathan theory and you can only go for one. He might throw some other manure around and say, well, by the way, sorry, can we all at least talk about the fact that Alan did not even remember he had a shield? That is mega suspicious. I still think it's Jonathan, but, you know, he might put that catamucks of pigeons and should do if no one else does. Well, if Nick's gone, who has Joe got to help?

So Lucy is smart, but I don't think there's a big connection between her and Joe. obviously the three traitors are not going to be helpful in any way. David is a bit of a lone wolf. It's quite difficult. He's got to lead his life according to the night ride agreed. One man can make a difference. Did you see the message we got from one of our listeners after you talked about how great the drivers are?

You say these stunt drivers who are... Well, you and I do not drive and therefore consequently incredibly impressed by driving. And I thought the way that they do, you know, they really coordinate all the land rovers and whatever. And actually, it was one of the sort of, producers saying... It was a researcher, I think so. No, it's just us.

It's just us. We're trying to do all this other stuff at the same time, listen to what they're saying. Yeah, but yeah, we did pull up under the porch pretty nicely, didn't we? Yeah, she did say, yeah, I will accept we absolutely nailed the portico driving. It looks really good. I'm sorry, well, we're very impressed by any form of driving.

Enormously impressive thing. I won't name that person because, listen, you never know if you're supposed to do that sort of thing or not. You know, what we're talking about, is it going to be difficult for Alan? When Alan was talking about maybe getting with a Stephen and he said well the thing about it is it would absolutely blow their minds and he says it always takes them a couple of days to recalibrate which was so astute yeah and it's

it's exactly right isn't it so you can they tend not to be able to focus on two things at once like a jackdor that's just spotted a weasel it doesn't want it, it can't see a stoat at the same time another thing he said I thought was very telling about like how actually the game it's so claustrophobic being in there he said oh my god week one Alan and you're thinking you have actually You only've really been there about five years.

But you do feel like you've been there about, you know, a month. Yeah, yeah. And so that was a sort of telling sense of how time works in the castle, which for us on the outside of the game can often feel like, oh, come on, how can you not? But I do think time works differently when you're sort of removed from absolutely everything. The other question we've had from lots and lots of our listeners, thanks everybody. And by the way, how much do we enjoy doing these? I'm really, I'm so happy that people enjoy listening to them because it's just lovely to talk about.

It's like sport, but for television. Exactly. But people will keep asking who's the dream cast for the next series. Well, obviously I want to see Roy Keen. That just goes out saying. Roy King would be amazing. I think about Shira. Yeah.

Well, Shira, think about Shira. Okay, let's do the sports ones first, okay. Andy Murray. Really? Come on, if not, Judy. Judy would be incredible. Judy would be very, very good. Judy takes absolutely zero nonsense from anyone.

Yeah. Christian Horner. What? Christian Horner's... You don't want Christian Horner to be in traitors? Do you know how happy I would be? I think I would, then I would have Stenthal's injury. What does he bring, though?

What doesn't he bring, though? He's a full threat. He loves to think how long his diary room pieces would be. He tries to sort of make the show all about him. It would be a blaze of glory and he would go down in it.

A football manager type would be very, people who are used to doing post-match analysis. The sporting person I think would be amazing in there just in terms of status, stature,

how seriously they'd be taken, how amazing they'd be as a faithful, but also how incredible they'd be as a traitor is Gareth Southgate. Don't you think, Sir Gareth? Oh my God. Ritey would be

the Jomala, that he would be just deeply emotional the whole time and really, really care. Mark Bonner fused with Joe Marla. Wow. Yeah, writer would be amazing. Colleen, if not, Rebecca Vardy will probably do it. Colleen's a great idea.

Colleen Rooney. Yeah, well, you know she wants to do different things or else she wouldn't be doing things she's done. No politicians at all. No, I don't think so. Absolutely no politicians. I think that's a, that's no, anyone with any sort of divisiveness in that sort of way. that's the beauty of this one

but you don't have to have someone who stirs the pot oh no you know what it'd be great because they're just you know they say what they think and you know what we all say what we think all the time actually what we don't do

is tell you we're saying what we're thinking we just do it anyone ever tells you they're saying what they're thinking you absolutely they're on the grift well they've also they've just watched so much reality TV that they feel that they have to constantly

you know gloss themselves just say what you think almost any comedian you know like I mean obviously I think someone like Lou Sanders would be absolutely great. I mean, Lou would, I mean, she's such a maverick.

It's so funny. I mean, how would she even fit in? Johnny Vegas, I think, would be very, very good. I'd like to see that. He would be disruptive. Rochene, I'd like to see in there. She would be fantastic. I think she'd be terrific.

A few left afield people, because we can all, listen, we want famous people. Jennifer Saunders, by the way, I thought would be amazing in that. I'd love her to go in there. A few left of field. Rebecca Lucy Taylor, self-esteem. Yeah, yeah, she'd be very good. amazing because she's funny she's opinionated she would she would she's got the joe marla absolute you know sheffield steel going all the way through rather than steel i think maybe loyal

kana i always absolutely love on anything he ever does he's so smart i think he'd be an amazing person to have in there and lisa tarbuck i'd love to see in there kirstie young because she listens people who are listening on looking for celia has although she kind of is such a maverick she goes in different directions but noticing the absence of things is so significant Like she noticed the absence of something in Cat, and that was significant, and she may go back to that. What about Jason Isaacs? He's totally unfiltered. I think he'd be good. Oh, my God. Do you think he'd do it? That would be amazing. I mean, yeah, he is absolutely unfiltered. It'd be brilliant.

Because he would, yeah, he would ask any question at all times of anyone around that table. That would be incredible. But then people would go, yes, but you're an actor, so of course, you're a traitor. I think it's the person that Claudia tapped on the shoulder of the traitors, rather than the people doing it to Rada. I could be wrong. I absolutely could be wrong about that. Lorraine Kelly. I've put her.

Yeah. Also, Carol Kirkwood. Sorry, just for my morning, ladies. Yes, please. Naga. Yeah. That could go, that would go. Oh, I mean, that would go off.

That would go all the way. She'd play like a civilian. If Naga, I thought you were a traitor, you would know about it. Oh, yeah. You'd know you'd been served. Patrick Kilty. Yeah, Paddy Kilty. He'd be good.

Yeah, he'd be very good. Marion Keyes. Oh my God, she'd be epic. Again, people who may be the public know less, but Marian, any time you see or anything or hear her or anything, she's so brilliant and perspicacious and really understands human nature. And those are the people. So you've got to have those big names,

but you've got to have the Joe Marla type people. You've got to have people there who, if you've come across them in your life, you just think, oh man, if the public saw more of you, they would absolutely love you. And people who would not be daunted by the game and people who would not be daunted by the other personality. around, you know, in the same way. So, Joe Marla is not daunted by Stephen Fry and Claire Baldwin and Jonathan Ross.

Self-esteem would not be daunted by any of those people. It's, you know, those, you know, she wouldn't be daunted. She might be daunted by Sir Gareth Southgate. You have to have a YouTuber, and on that, I think they should have Amelia de Boulderberg if they can get her. She'd be so brilliant. That's a great idea. Because she would not be daunted, as we can see from every chicken shop date.

That's a great idea. She would be very, very good. Three weeks of God has said Sarah Ferguson, but her red lines gone through. that potential booking. I think maybe it has because I was thinking Prince Harry because what a way to rehabilitate yourself with the pub you know that's because because he's on that 50-50 nice lifeage. It's a plot for a brilliant comedy drama. Yeah. Prince Harry goes into win back the nation. He enters a reality TV for that. Called the traitors and you're like but your family's got history with actual traces. I mean this is yeah. We're designed to do it. He would

genuinely be great because he would take it very very seriously. Someone I saw the other day and I thought Oh my God, you'd be amazing on Celebrity Straiters is Miles Jupp. Oh, yeah, he would be brilliant. Because I love Miles. He makes every room more fun. Yes. He makes every group a more fun group. But, you know, stick a bit of pressure on him.

He knows what happens. He, you know, he laughs everything in, which is amazing. I'd love him. I'd love Rob Bryden. I think would be great. I mean, I just want Rob Biden on all the television shows. I want agents of chaos like Jerry Halliwell or Just Stone, maybe even a dean from Girls Alad.

It could go off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. You like, you want that. Yeah. And it might not. They might just play an incredibly safe. In fact, in terms of who they are going to book, you need four or five absolute blue chips.

You just absolutely do. You know, you need your Lorraine Kellys and your Sir Gareth South Gates and people like that. Jennifer Saunders. You need those people who are where people just go, oh, wow. That's amazing booking. You need three or four people who people don't know. Like we had Ruth and Nico, unfortunately, a lot of them voted out this one. But Kat is a perfect example.

Someone who we didn't know before, but you're like, oh, okay. Because normally I do think they reflect the countries. That's something else I was thinking about. They do reflect the country slightly. And the American one is so, you know, Machiavellian and Survivor of the Fittist. Whereas ours, I think there is so much deference to perceived class or intellectual.

It's so like us, you know. And also, the old really just really stab the young. Yes. Sorry, I mean, sorry, boomers. And even lower than boomers. They really got rid of the young. Well, that's because what I worked up with the books a long time ago is all old people are just young people

who are older but you know what it's just I know this isn't the message of the Thursday murder class well it sort of is you know young people have never been old all old people have been young so they have a slight advantage over you you've got to have the people who the people don't particularly know but sort of slightly wild cards for that very reason yeah exactly that and then and then you need your sort of nationally treasury type people masked up Gabby Logan the person I would love only because they think the documentary is fascinating is Eddie Hearn yes either they watch it in which case they want to be on it or else you can't you can't imagine yourself saying to e.g. Alistair Campbell,

well, the format of the show is, Alistair, that this is how what happens. It's like, I know, I've never seen it, but I'm sure I'll be fine. In a way, that's why they're scared of Jonathan is because, well, as you say, he's very influential on the outside, whatever, but actually, because they believe that he is the absolute completest and understands the game better than anyone else. And they keep saying now, oh, no one's sort of more versed in traitor's law than, oh, they don't put it that way, but you know what I mean.

Yeah, then, yes, I agree. But they think it's Jonathan. They think he is the super fan who knows all the answers. I think it's almost impossible to play the game better than Jonathan has played it. I agree. I was disparaging about aspects of it, but the fact that he's still here is a testament to how well he turned it around. Yeah. We're probably going to have to, we could literally talk for like four hours, right?

I know. I really, I'm very sorry that we have to start. I'm very sorry we have to wait until next Wednesday to find out. I literally is infuriating we have to wait. But, you know, it's like the old days of telly. Yeah. Oh, Charles Brandreth. Oh, yes. Okay, fair enough.

Charles would be a lot of fun. You've got to get him. Yeah, yeah. I don't always interrupt my outos with the name Charles Brandreth, but I have today. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. Whether you're listening straight afterwards, in which case we're still reeling or whether you're listening tomorrow morning. We'll do it all again next week, shall we? We will do.

And also, if you want to listen to our regular episodes, there'll be one on Tuesday. There will be one on Tuesday. See you next Tuesday, everybody. See you next Tuesday, everyone. This episode was brought to you by Sky. Skyglass is the new television from Sky, the kind that makes your old Teddy feel like a dress rehearsal. This is the big screen premiere right there in your living room.

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