The Rest Is Entertainment - Could ITV Poach The Traitors?

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Could a rival broadcast ever poach The Traitors from the BBC like Bake Off?How has the beloved bear from Peru, Paddington been brought to life on the London stage? Book serialisations. After former England goalkeeper Mary Earps was forced to defend parts of her book before it had even been released, how do book serialisations work? Who decides what snippets are available before general release? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer your questions, covering the nation's favourite telly and more. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Charlie Rodwell + Adam ThorntonAssistant Producer: Imee MarriottSenior Producer: Joey McCarthySocial Producer: Bex TyrellExec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina. And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm all right. I was right on Tuesday's episode. I've yet to watch another episode of Alls Fair, looking Kardashian.

There's still time. There's still time. I just, I don't have the itch. Don't have it. Not drunk enough. I just, yeah, there's a, there's a world in which you've had three cocktails in which you could possibly, where you might do. Where you might just dive in for a moment. I wonder if I could ask you a question. Please do. Well, not me, but Bedway Gullage has a question for you.

That's a good name. A bedware asks, I would be interested here your takes on the Ferroari, which has surrounded the release of Mary Earp's autobiography. When a book is sold for serialization in a newspaper, how much influence does the author have over what excerpts? are published in the paper. Mary up, so former England number one goalkeeper, then England number two goalkeeper, are now internationally retired but still plays for PSG. There's been a huge backlash against her book All In, which was serialised it in The Guardian.

And in the serialisation, there was a lot of airing of dirty linen, endless beefs, feuds, which sort of drive-by on Hannah Hampton, England number one goalkeeper on Serena Wiegman. Then Sonia Bonpastor, the Chelsea Women's Manager, chimed in to protect Hannah Hampton and Mary Epps herself has done a number of interviews and online posts in which

she said she's tried to sort of do clean up on this backlash and shift the blame to the way that the extracts have been done which is why you're asking this question Bedwick and I understand it and in some cases she's made it even worse so anyway in order to answer this question I've spoken to various people like ghost writers

agents and people who do the extracts for these books so how a book like this would work the women's game is very different to the men's game. Your management are going to think there's a moment for you to cash in. And whereas you can be quite long past retirement if you're in the, you play men's football and think, actually, I will now do my book. For women, there's this perception that it's kind of a trolley dash. You've got to do it while anyone knows who you are. And so what happens is that they find a ghost writer and they talk a lot. The person said, Mary Ups will have, and I think

her ghost writer was Deborah Linton and I think they talk, they talk a lot. And by the way, in sports biographies often completely above board they are traditionally written by ghost writers they're credited and you know some you don't have to be good at writing books when you are literally an international and sport exactly so we team you up for someone who's amazingly good at writing books can do it but not everyone else has to be able to do it

but not everyone else has to be able to do it and also a lot of ghost writers love to tell the story of sports people because there's so much incredible emotion so much jeopardy so much it's you know they are interesting stories to tell more interesting than saying you know the autobiography of a light entertainment presenter. Yeah, it's interesting that Prince Harry's biography, there was a lot of interesting stuff to be told

in that one, but, you know, was primarily known for doing that amazing Andrea Agassi book. Anyway, what that ghost writer will then do is shape the book into a narrative, some kind of an arc, rather than just sort of full list tired of experience. And then we lost three-one. And then we get move on to serialisation.

Now, serialisation, when you write a book, if you get it serialised, it's great for two things. It's great for publicity, because it gets your book out there in places so that people know it's happening. And you also get money, you're paid for that. So that comes back against your advance or whatever it is. So you'll be pleased with that. Now, The Guardian was a good place for Mary A Epps's book to be serialized

because there's a lot of women's football coverage. There's no paywall. So it's a really great place for your book to be out there. Now, in the old days, what happened, and still really to this day, when you're doing a contract to serialize a book, you buy a certain number of words but you've bought the book and you can basically take what you like and you've bought lockstock and barrel and you can you'll say okay we're doing a 6,000 word serialisation or whatever it is but you're allowed to take pretty much any of the 6,000

I mean you can't just take individual words and then put them together no in a different order that I believe would be transgressive and of course the way this has always worked is that they pick the most sensational or the funny or the dramatic bits but that's not just what they do and we'll come and the most newsworthy bits presumably the bits the way it's But there are going to... There's a headline. Other people are going to think, I've got to mention that. When you're doing the ghost writing, the book,

it goes without saying that Mary Ups signed off on every single thing in that book. She told those stories. She told those stories and she would have been shown the manuscript with the essay. Is there anything here you don't like? Okay. I bet some people don't read it. Yeah. I bet some people are going, it's fine.

I said it all, so I'm sure it's, yeah. Anything I said is okay. But I do have time to read my own book. Like some of the forms I sign. Yes. I don't know. I do. When was the last time you ever.

like read a form. Yeah. I mean, a long time ago, right? Yes. Anyway, nowadays, because they'll always try their luck, agents do try and push back on some bits and say, well, if you take that,

that's obviously just going to be the only story that comes out of the book, and we don't really want that. And sometimes they'll get a fair hearing, or sometimes the people who are contextualising will say, okay, we'll take it, but we're going to put in what leads up to it and whatever happens. So I've talked to the people who buy and extract and run these serializations, and they will say to you, we're not running a trailer for your book.

So a lot of people just think, can you just basically run a trailer for my book? No, the extract for the readers needs to work as a complete story. It needs to have a beginning, a middle and an end, and not just be some sort of giant teaser that I'm sure you'd love it if you were the author of the book or the subject of the book. You want to get a microcosm of the narrative within that. And the merry-ups book, I think, does contain that. And so someone like Rob Fern at The Guardian, who didn't extract this book,

but he extracted, for example, the Virginia Joufrey memoir that The Guardian ran a few weeks ago. Talked quite interestingly about that and thinking, well, we knew we wanted the Prince Andrew stuff because obviously that's the most newsworthy and that's going to be a bit bit. But we also wanted that moment where she first walks into sort of Mar-a-Lago

and she's scouted basically by Jolene Maxwell, Virginia. Because you wanted the absolute very start of all this and then the bit that everyone's... So to find a way of doing that is kind of quite difficult and it's sensitive. and you have to sort of trust a publication with your sensitive material. So what went wrong with Mary Earps' book? I would say that that process has to be,

you've got to be pasturally cared for by a manager who's going to say, at the ghostwriting stage, they will extract, if you're going to, or certainly the selling of the rights, right? You're going to say they're going to pick out all these bits. And her pretending, or genuinely perhaps, thinking, I don't understand why they've done this, is kind of not acceptable. but you should, it's a failing of the kind of agent or management care that really,

if she really didn't understand. And if she did, then you can't really blame the extractors. What were the, I love the way you say the extractors as if they're like the SAS or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't claim the people who've chosen those things. She obviously aired a lot of her dirty linen. What was the, what were the specific things that she's been in trouble for? There's so many, there were particular drive-bys on like Hannah Hampton on Serena Regman.

And if you're going to attack team minutes and people who are still playing, and people who have got to play in a game that Saturday, which is why Sonia Bonpastor got involved from Chelsea. I mean, yes, it's difficult, and no one has stood up for her. And I think that's because they think what she's done is unacceptable, and the way she's done it is unacceptable, her teammates. And I've noticed that they've been sort of conspicuous in their silence. But what I think is interesting about and why there should be particular caretaking this,

and I think to some degree it's a failure of management because they're supposed to look after you. Women's football has become like a really odd. entertainment space. It's a very different form of fandom than the men's foot game in lots of ways. And I've seen people say, oh, it's like being a K-pop star or something. You know, you get completely picked apart for people's amusement. It's idiosyncratic. It can be toxic in a different way to the men's. And I think that not understanding all of that or her not having been made aware of it. And then to say to her, you maybe want to stop trying it, making it worse by

all of just going on saying, oh, this is to do with the way my book's been extracted. I don't think that's fair in this case. And I think the extract, you know, the extract was done fairly. But maybe she didn't understand what serialisation rights mean, which is that they pick off these bits and everyone will cover them. It's interesting. So it's good for the Guardian to have these extracts for sure. It is good for the publisher to have these extracts for sure.

Because as you say, it's one of the key drivers of early sales, certainly, is if you can get it serialised, even these days, because there was a period where serialisation was not important because newspapers had really declined and the internet hadn't quite caught up. But now it sort of doesn't matter where it's been serialised because that story is everywhere. Yeah, it's literally because everybody scrapes it and puts it on their own site. Exactly. So if you, and as you said, building it, not behind the paywall is amazing because suddenly, you know, everyone's reading it, everyone's seeing it. So it's incredible publicity for that but not great publicity for Mary Earps and as you say I'm badly advised I get I guess

but I wonder if that is a lifetime of being in a sport where she felt underrepresented and she was trying to get her voice heard and it wasn't being heard and maybe underestimating quite what a big star she had become and underestimating what a big story women's football have become and how it is now right in the heart of our culture in a way that's incredibly warming, but someone is going to be the first victim of that. Yeah, you live in a world of, this is my truth, but actually, sometimes your truth is not very palatable to others. And I think thinking that this is my story and I can tell it how I like is a naivety that you just can't enjoy it any longer. But I do think there is something

peculiar about the fandom around women's football that I think is interesting and that it's much more like other forms of entertainment fandom where people, I just think it's quite odd. in some ways and it's definitely different to the men's game, although as we see here can be just as toxic. Well, if it's the men's game, you'd immediately be signed up for talk spot breakfast. Yeah. As a guest host, you know, this is amazing, this person, isn't it?

It's hard with footballers, and you can see when they've immediately retired. They're quite uncomfortable, having a go at colleagues. It takes them a couple of years before they can really start taking the gloves off. Oh, taking the gloves off. That's what I would have called it. That's what you should have called it, Mary Earps, taking the gloves off. I thought you were talking about the Kardashian show.

because they were, well, were their gloves so much. That could have been called Gloves off. Gloves off is an, oh my God. Gloves off is an unbelievably great title for this automobile. What's it called? It's called All In. Yeah, it should have been called Gloves Off. Yeah, I know.

That's like I've just let them all in. That's a terrible name for a goalkeeper's. Gloves off, is there time, can we pulpit? Well, I mean, I'm sure you'd delight many of her teammates, former teammates. Didn't there any boxing autobiographs called Gloves Off? There must be. Come on. Look it up.

Yeah, you know, looking at out, Tyson Fury, gloves off. I knew it was good. I knew it was good. So I guess Mary Epps couldn't have had gloves off. Gloves on. One glove on, one glove off. That's what I call it, the Mary Eup story. The kind of subtitle of her book is learning to be unapologetically me.

Yeah, my truth. And now you happen to learn to be apologetically you. I have to warn you that the My Truth genre is on borrowed time. One glove on, one glove off. Richard, for you, a question from Chris Atkinson says, previously mega popular BBC shows which is Bakeoff and the voice have switched to rivals after becoming a success

as the Traitors is not a direct BBC production is there a chance a commercial rival could steal the rights yes absolutely is a chance and people always get annoyed like when Bakeoff went to Channel 4 and people had to go at Love Productions for doing it and I think it's cheeky of the channel to take it but you know I understand why

but if you're Love Productions this is you came up with it it's your show you know you've created it and if someone's going to pay you more money for it, there's not a business in the world where you wouldn't then just set it to somebody else. But, yeah, the traitors... Well, you might be happy with its impact.

I mean, by the way, if the traitors went to Channel 4, it would still get amazing ratings, but it wouldn't get, would it get some BBC one, and that's just that. It would be a cash-in job. Like, you know, Love Productions had this huge hit, which they weren't really able to cash in that much because you can't do big commercial deals

when you're on the BBC. And they're on quite a few series of the BBC, and I think they took the view. I wonder now if after a long career in television if we're allowed to cash in, which is what they did and continue to do so. It's worked for them and it's worked for Channel 4 very, very nicely. So traitors, well, Studio Lambert, so you make it for the BBC. BBC have got definite one year left on the deal.

If Studio Lambert then decide to take it elsewhere, the thing that kicks in, which would almost always kick in, which is there is usually one year, sometimes a two-year window, I suspect it's a two-year window on the traitors, where you are not allowed to show it anywhere else. So if they did want to take it to Channel 4, if they wanted to take it to ITV, and if you're either of those companies,

why would you not want it? They could do it, but we'd have to wait a long time for the next one. It would cost ITV or Channel 4 a fortune to buy it, that's for sure. You know, there's been studio land that have got, you know, lots of big hits, Gogglebox and all sorts of things, and people are always trying to poach them. And, you know, there's ways and means of keeping things on your channels

and making sure that you're still being paid. But, yeah, they could take it. I doubt that they would, as you say, the idea that it's so massive. But in like five series time, if we've moved on to something else. Right now we're all, yeah. I mean, right now, how could they be unhappy with the reaction it's had on BBC One? It's also the director of programs at BBC Kate Phillips commissioned this show. So you can't say, oh, then the regime changed and the boss has changed at the moment.

She's absolutely at the heart of it. And by the way, can I just say we're having, we're very pleased. to say we're having Kate Phillips to do a Q&A next week. We are. She's ahead of all BBC content. So any questions you have for Kate. I don't know if there's anything about the BBC in the news. It's Pete your interest at the moment. If you'd love to ask a question about it, we've got Kate next week. And she's terrific and do please dig deep for your questions. And she's behind, she's sort of

come from an entertainment background, so behind all that stuff. But you can ask her anything about any of those shows. So yes, there's absolutely no reason why you would take it from the BBC at the moment. Claudia is there. Claudia is happy. Studio Lambert are not a company that is looking to cash out because they've already cashed out a number of times. It's not a situation like love where we thought, you know what, we're waiting for the one big payday, quite rightly, and they did it. Studio Lambert have had their paydays a number of times. They make race across the world for the BBC.

So, you know, they make stuff for everybody. I would think it's safe up until the point where it's down to lower ratings and it would still do a pretty good job for an ITV or a Channel 4, but it's less interesting to the BBC. At that point, Studio Lambert might say, we'll take it elsewhere. And Claudia would probably step back and someone else to do it. But that would be in a long time, I think. I think it's safe and sound. I think talking to that amazing gang at Studio Lambert, I think they knew, even a couple of months ago, they were going, you know what, this celebrity is, it's pretty good. Everyone was like, gosh, this is better than we thought it was going to be even.

You know, they're very talented, but they were kind of going, yeah, I think this is quite something. I think they have been taken by surprise about quite how well it's landed and quite what a huge thing it has been. And what's coming next? I'm so excited that it's acted as a gateway drug into Traderdom for people who had not watched the original version. And now we'll be able to in January. Yeah, it's like all the people watching their curling at the Olympics who then watched the World Curling Championships for the next four years. But then they disappear for the – but I think these people will be back in January. They are sticking around.

But, you know, I think that the relationship between the BBC and Studio League. It's very, very strong. Exactly. You know, they're all, everyone's rowing the same boat in the same direction, and they're very happy to be doing so. So this is not immediately at risk for anybody. So I wouldn't worry about that. I think it's staying on the BBC,

and I think it has a very healthy future there too. Questions about that format and anything else to Kate Phillips, please. Addresses the rest is entertainment at goalhanger.com, and we're going to be talking to her next week, which will be lots of fun. We are indeed. Should we do some adverts? Let's do that. This episode is brought to you by Sky

and Sky's new original film, Nuremberg, in cinemas Friday the 14th of November. Now, the trials in Nuremberg weren't just a courtroom drama, they're also the story of how Allied forces shaped the reality of international justice for generations to come. At the centre of this story is a battle of the minds between Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Kelly, an American psychiatrist played by Rami Malik,

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A story of taking phenomenal risks in the pursuit of truth and justice. Watch Sky Original Nuremberg, only in cinemas Friday the 14th of November. Welcome back, everybody. Question to you, Marina, from Al Jones, or possibly A.I. Jones. Let's take a look at how he phrases it and will make our mind up. You have asked a question about Fortnite IP. Is this correct? I think is AI Jones.

No, Al says, I'm curious about how collaborations with major IPs work in games like Fortnite. When a popular franchise, E.G. Simpsons, appears in the game, does Fortnite typically pay for the rights to use the IP? Or do the IP owners pay to have their brand featured on such a high visibility platform? That's a good question. The answer is that it can work in either of those ways and actually sometimes also both at once in the form of mutual partnerships. But, Epic, Fortnite's made by Epic, and for people who don't play it or haven't seen it, it's a game, but there are, from limited time periods, other IP intellectual property appears in the form of skins.

This is like a way you can look, as your avatar can look, themed weapons, maps, like little mini games that come off the main game, new bosses to fight. It's kind of like a metaverse where everything gets chucked in. So you can have, it's quite hard to explain. I mean, 15 years ago, it'd be like, I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about, and you probably still feel like that way now. But it's, as I say, it's a bit like a metaverse where everything gets chucked in, and you can have memes and pop stars and movie characters and fashion brands.

You can play as Mary Earps. Yeah, you could play as Mary Earps. One glove on, one glove off. Yes, exactly. That's the skin. And like a sweet little anime character who's now given a machine gun because they're in Fortnite and so that's what can happen in Fortnite, even though it wouldn't happen in the game that you click came from. If it's somebody else's IP, Epic would usually pay a licensing fee to them. So, like, Disney, like, Star Wars does various things with them.

You get characters, props, and the kind of music cues. And then sometimes, but what they can do then within the game is charge for those skins. And so, you know, consumers will pay. And so they'll make money, you know, anime things like My Hero Academia or whatever. But if you've got Simpsons skins, for example, there is money to be raised. Yes. And that money is going somewhere. If someone is promoting something, then they will usually pay Epic.

So say Nike have marketed Jordans via the game, which is quite a simple one to explain. But there's lots of different kinds of marketing and advertising. And then sometimes you have a revenue share model where, like, lots of people have done concerts like Ariana Grande, Travis Scott, like Metallica. They've done these virtual concerts. The NFL have had some very, very successful kind of mutual partnership. and sometimes even other games publishers or games themselves like Halo will do a crossover and again that's a marketing thing.

It's interesting that you said in your question other games like Fortnite it's really there aren't really very many other games who do this or certainly not to the scale it's almost like Fortnite I've eaten everybody's luncheon because it's so massive and they went really early into this because at the start when this started happening people thought oh I don't want to degrade my IP

by putting it but they were able to persuade a number of people and then people saw how well it worked because it brings people in so I think I mentioned that like Metallica have done a concert okay most Metallica fans might be middle-eight I'm not categorizing them all of them but they might be middle age and they might not play fortnight if they say to you Metallica are doing two virtual concerts then Metallica don't do a lot so you're hearing they're doing two virtual concerts in fortnight it that's bringing those people into fortnight even if it's only temporary they might get into it so it's the absolute prime game for any of these

crossovers. And there are certain ones that I remember in the summer we were talking about Grower Garden and someone like Travis Kelsey had done a sort of collaboration and there are collaborations on Roblox but they are fewer although Grower Garden has fallen away, I don't know if I... Oh no, has it? It's a weird.

Well, I told you that what was stealing up on the inside was steal a brain rot which it was steal a brain rot for absolutely Mars and that's been really sick. Yeah, but he Jandall the creative Grower Garden slightly ruined that game. Do you remember I told you about The Weimar inflation that happened in Grower Garden. So then it was Steeler Brainrot.

But I think Steeler Brainwark itself has now been surpassed by 99 nights in the forest, which is currently the number one game on Roblox, and you've got to survive. 99 nights in the forest, which is, of course, Ant Poster Coglu's autobiography. Yes, exactly. And actually, they've made it wonderful for children, really involving. So, yes, that's the answer to that. But it's interesting. Fortnite is such a behemoth, and no one else really does it to the same degree.

They're kind of like you would go there first. With a lot of these collaborations, whether, you know, it could be fast food, it can be video games, it can be anything. There is, it's a state, it's a status trade-off essentially, which is Fortnite want to constantly be updating their game, which they do all the time themselves, all sorts of different mods, all sorts of different ways to play it. So for them, you think, oh, we could have a Simpsons version of this. I mean, that's, they go, yes, we would like that. That's a fun thing for us. If you're the Simpsons, you go, what, go into Fortnite, yes, I see the Simpsons. status of that. So on that, who's paying who? Absolutely wouldn't know because they're both

getting a lot out of that. Because if you're Fortnite, Simpsons is like such a great legacy brand that makes you feel good that it gives you an extra bit of luster. Everyone's winning on that. As you say, if you're Nike and you've got a new product, you are going to have to pay. But if you look at the status of who is involved, like Travis Kelsey, Wendy used to do in Grow Garden, that would have been one of 50 things in a meeting with his manager. And it said, we've got this in Grower Garden and we go, God, no, of course I'm not going to do that. And then you say, let me just take you through the demographics of this. Let me take you through your demographics, which are here and very healthy. Let me take you through the demographics of Grower Garden,

which are very healthy, but also very different to your demographics. So this is like, this is free money for you. And with Grower Garden, they're going, who can we have, who could do it? Like Travis Kelsey at Hill, well, you're never going to say yes. And so again, with that, no one's having to pay anyone because everyone's making money. So there's some things which are pure advertising. So if it was, for example, a very specific Simpsons movie thing, then there might be money-changing hands. But if there's two bits of media that have their own fandom

and have quite a substantial fandom, then the joining together is very, very clearly understood these days that brands tend to multiply each other rather than divide each other. And so people are very, very happy to be in different fields and for everyone to, you know, the collaborations you see between the wildest companies these days because they recognise that it works for everyone. Yes, but Fortnite is head shoulders and I think full torso above all the others in terms of this.

Now, a question for you, Richard, from Emma Wither, who says, having recently become slightly obsessed with the new musical production of Paddington, Paddington the musical, I can't stop thinking about Paddington's costume and how all the elements come together to work so convincingly. Can you explain what goes into working Paddington, move, speak and sing so expressively when there are so many components at work? Yes, particularly if you're doing a stage show, because there is no CGI or anything like that. So it's a real thing on the stage.

So this is a, I think it's in previews at the moment of the Savoy Theatre. I'm very happy to answer this question because I'll answer anything, which is McFly adjacent. And the songs in this have been written by Tom Fletcher from McFly. So it's got Paddington, it's got Tom Fletcher from McFly. What could possibly go wrong? So Tara Zafar is the person who designed Paddington Bear for the stage. She's been working on this since about 2019. She was the head of makeup at the 2012 Olympic ceremony

and she made the PG-Tips Monkey. So, come on. I mean, has anyone had a better career than that? That's incredible. I would like to know. Well, okay. Well done. Well done, Tara.

Carry on. So Neil Scanlon approached her. He was one of the chief creature makers on Star Wars and said, look, we've got to do Paddington. It's going to be live. How do we put this together? So she's been working on it a long time. She said the first thing we thought is we started off thinking what we didn't want.

Most importantly, we didn't want him to be surrounded by loads of puppies. tears. Yeah. Okay, so not like, you know, like War Horse or something like that. Which is amazing, but it's a different, is a different vibe. We wanted audience to see the little bear all by himself, vulnerable in the middle of the stage. So what they've ended up with, there is an actor, Artie Shah, and Artie is, she's only, she's four feet tall, Artie. She's in the, uh, a bear costume. She's in a bear suit for the onstage bear presence. So while backstage, there's an actor, it's currently James Hamid, who's controlling the bear's facial expressions, provides the voice and controls the robotic, you know,

all works remotely. So you've got someone who can do all of the movements actually in the suit and you've got someone who can do the expressiveness and the acting who is backstage at the same time. So you've got Artie in the costume. You've got James doing the thing. The face. The face. Tara says that there is an awful lot more to it which she won't give away because she does want it to be magical and quite rightly because what's more magical than going to see Pennington the music on the scene Pannington for real. And like what she does say is that Artie who's in this bear costume, she trained for it by sitting in a sauna, fully clothed for a week. It's a very physical performance. She's super professional. The bear suit is quite hot. It's made

out of sustainable wool, but that's still wool, right? Yeah. And she also assures us that no bears were harmed in any of this process. That's a training montage, isn't it? Just sitting in the sauna, ready to just get. More and more clothes on. Yeah. Wow. Okay, that's incredible. I really need to see this. I want to go and see this. Well, this, it's gone. The question is being asked as that, you know, I'll say this at the beginning. And thank you for the question. This, this bear has gone viral. You can see all sorts of clips of this bear. And it does look amazing, but how is it done? Yeah, so that's in previews at the moment. It's at the Savoy theatre. But if you watch it, then hats off to Artie and to James. Gloves off to them both.

I think that about winds us off for today. Yeah. We will, of course, be back tomorrow with a bonus episode, part two of the outrageous MTV story. And if you want to sign up, it's the rest of entertainment.com, ad free listening, all that sort of thing. We'd also love your Kate Phillips questions. Yes, please send questions about anything to do with TV, anything on the BBC for Kate Phillips, and we will put them to her. That's The Rest is Entertainment at goalhanger.com, and otherwise we will see you next Tuesday.

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