The Rest Is Entertainment - Elon Musk vs Christopher Nolan

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Why has Elon Musk thrown a tantrum over the casting in The Odyssey? Is the Cannes Film Festival a thing of the past? What do Paddy McGuinness, Bullseye and a London cabbie have to do with Donald Trump's first foray into reality TV? Elon Musk is predictably outraged by Christopher Nolan casting Lupita Nyong'o as Helen of Troy in this summer's blockbuster 'The Odyssey'. Richard Osman and Marina Hyde explore the online meltdown and ask why tech bros are so obsessed with fantasy fiction. Big Break is back! Superfan Richard Osman has the full scoop on the snooker game show's return. No major studios are premiering their films at Cannes this year, we explain why Hollywood now see the French film festival as too risky. The Rest is Entertainment is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain's most awarded energy supplier. Lloyds. 250 years on and still backing the nation's aspirations. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at ⁠therestisentertainment.com ⁠ For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com⁠ Video Editor: Vasco Andrade Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn & Samantha Psyk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rest of entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, the moment someone becomes properly famous, they stop travelling as a person and they start travelling as a situation. And yes, I am talking about the world of entourages. It's amazing. Any time you do a TV show when someone properly famous comes on, you can just have a spread bet as to how many people they're going to bring with them. Most people don't actually need a bodyguard and a fixer and a straw lady.

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And me, Richard Osmond. Hello, everyone. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm very, very, very, well, big week for show business this week. Rivals back again. Yeah.

We're going to find out the strictly hosts today. We're not allowed to announce it because we're going to go out in the morning. Today being Tuesday. Yeah. But we're very happy with them. Yeah. I think it's good. Yeah.

I think it's good. By the time this goes out, you'll know who they are. So, yes, I, yeah, yeah. Why do people announce things on Tuesdays? Yeah, it's really annoying. Try and, you know, try and make the effort and do it at the weekend. But that's like, have I got news for you? They always record on Thursdays, and that's always when elections are. And they're always sort of recording going, well, I mean, we've absolutely no idea.

I wrote quite a few columns like that last week. I bet you did. But anyway, it's like, please don't let this be overtaken by 2pm. I'm accepting it's going to be overtaken by 6pm. But that's like us for strictly. Yes, that is like us. Yes, what are we talking about? We are talking about phenotypes in nearly 3,000-year-old works of literature.

What is a phenotype just out of interest? It is the observable physical characteristics of an organism. Gotcha. Absolutely. None the wiser. We are talking about Elon Musk, getting very angry with Christopher Nodon, for casting a black woman as Helen of Troy. We'll talk about that. We are talking about, you might be shocked to learn that I'll be taking the lead on this next one. the return of big break Big break is coming back

I'll talk about the original I talk about It's a snooker show I love the fact I'm so sorry yeah yeah if there are some people who are in our audience

who will not be aware of big break I'm so sorry there are they really are not please there is oh my God I'd love to poll this yeah I'd love to poll this okay I know about phenotype I know what you're going to say

do you know what a phenotype is have you heard a big break okay but I think you'd also be quite disappointed by the answers I'm going to you know what I'm going to talk to our lovely friends at Moore in common I mean, they've got better things to be doing at the moment, but I'm going to ask them how many people know what a fellow type is.

Can you just come off that, come off the by-election and come and tell me how many people in the rest of entertainment audience have heard a big break. I'm not saying nobody has. I'm saying it's more niche than you think it is. Sorry, anyway, we're talking about the return. But it won't be soon, will it? Because it's returning. I might not be able to get past that. I might not have to get the polling done live.

Okay. We're talking about that. We're also talking about the Cannes Film Festival, which is running over this part of last week and to the end of this week, where there are no studio films, no big US studio films. And we're going to talk about why, because it's interesting. It's a bit of departure. Shall we start with Musk versus Christopher Nolan? Yes. Somehow Elon versus Nolan just feels like it's the one to go with.

But yes. So the Odyssey comes out on July the 17th. Obviously, it has all been shot. But there are certain little bits of minor characters, by the way, because Helen of Troy is a minor character in the Odyssey. Big in the Aaliyadh. It's one of the famous one. Yeah, she's a famous one, but yeah.

It's more a cameo in the Odyssey. You're coming back, but you're not a series regular. Yeah. So anyway, and he's revealed that, or they've done as a publicity shot, so we now know that Lipi Tienongo is Helen of Troy. Elon Musk has lost his mind. It's good. You know what?

the second I see any casting, I always think, I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That's the opinion I want to hear. I couldn't agree more. So it's great that he's immediately come out and, you know, as is his customary style, posted just the 950 times or something about it. He says it's not realistic that Christopher Nolan is doing it for the Oscars. He's got some sort of quota system that he thinks that if you have a certain amount of diversity, then you've done it to meet the Academy's diversity quotas and therefore you are eligible. he makes great films about men and the women who love them. And I'm kidding, come on. Now we've got Marina Hyde versus Christopher Nolan. No, we haven't. Elon Musk loves Troy.

You know, there was a Brad Pitt one. Of course he does. I know, that's the Iliad. And Brad Pitt's Achilles and I had a couple of people who's had it with Diane Kruger, maybe. It's a long time ago. I've seen it once. Even though that movie, by the way, plays incredibly fast and loose with the Iliad, with potential massive knock-ons in.

the Homeric extended universe. I remember being at the cinema, I'm just saying, this is playing fast and loose with the idea, isn't it? This, like, well, in which case, how can Agamemnon do this later on? Yeah, stuff like that. Exactly. Yeah, I thought Paul Shane as Agamemnon,

I thought, no. Yes, well, we're going back to Bronze Age Greece, of course. So we have to say, is any of this that realistic? I don't think they would have looked like Matt Damon and Tom. I've seen the trailer. There's one big sort of trailer out. And I don't think they would have looked like Matt Damon or Tom Holland.

You know, and Tom Holland says, you know, my dad's coming home or something like that. Again, I'm told they would have said it in Greek. Again, I'm not the expert, but I'm told they would have said it in Greek. Tom Holland's dad is the stand-up Dominic Holland. Yeah. So that's unrealistic. Yeah. Because we know that Dominic Holland was not trying to return.

But this is why Michael Owen the footballer cannot go to movies because everybody's pretending to do things. He's right. This is right. Yeah. And actually, he could go and perhaps talk Elon Mustan off his latest ledge about this. Mel Gibson I guess would have done it in the original Greek We need to check in with that resurrection of Christ Actually that's just reminded me but let me go and make some calls on that

Because I want to see how that's going The next thing that he's going to get very upset about is that Travis Scott has been cast as a sort of bard Yes the rapper Travis Scott Yeah because it's poetry's like rap And it's something like that But we haven't we haven't you know something Yeah we haven't seen

It's a film It's a film and it's coming out quite a thing we haven't seen anything more than the trailer but Musk has really gone off the deep end about this and of course all his sort of baby bros are posting about it I see you know that Kevin Sorbo who was in Hercules

you know completely accurate classical completely accurate classical piece he said you could have paid me to tank this movie and I wouldn't have thought of this but there were new ways to be found to teach Kevin to Sorbo to tank movies there's that guy Matt Walsh who's a commentator and he's talking about it

And do you want to know how he describes Christopher Nolan? The f*** nerve of these men, genuinely, who by all means, listen, stick to what you do, whatever it is. Elon Musk genuinely, I know you've started with a lot of money, but you're the richest guy in the world. It's not without talent. This is not your industry. Okay, it is not your industry. Some people are going to be better than you are other things. This is definitely one of them.

I know from childhood you desperately wanted to be people like Christopher Nolan and you're not. and I know it burns you up and now you're finally going oh my God we can now start we've got some power over these people but just let somebody else talented get on with things he says about Christopher Nolan

Matt Woolsh yeah he's almost admitting to it here he describes Christopher Nolan as technically talented but a coward isn't that amazing I mean listen he knows where to point in the camera

I'll give him that right but a coward. Unbelievable. Do you know what, Matt Walsh? When people are filling the multiplexes to see your movies, we will listen to your opinions about Christopher Nolan, okay? But he's earned his place where he is.

Why do you think it is they feel they have to comment? Is it just the grift? Is it just that it plays well to their base? No, I think someone like, it's different with Musk. I don't know. He's like a shit poster who had to buy the company so that he could be the Primo shit poster. And so all his posts are sort of pushed right up.

algorithm and everyone agrees with him. Yeah, I mean, I do think it's quite sort of sad. It is quite odd because they are the people who do spend their entire time saying celebrities should not be talking about anything other than, you know, should stay in their lane effectively. And there are times when I see celebrities say, you know, I see another of Elon Musk's rockets has burst on launch or whatever it is. It's like, oh, I'm so sorry, that celebrity should shut up. Sorry, love, it's rocket science. Yeah, because every one of your rockets would blow up on launch. And he's amazing at this thing.

That company is amazing. The things they've done is it. They caught a rocket with some tweezers, okay? And I get that sometimes they don't catch it, and sometimes it blows up on the launch pad. But in general, they are amazing. And I guess also there's scientists involved as well. But Christopher Nolan, there's lots of people on that set as well.

Technically brilliant scientists, but coward. Yes. Some of those guys. Do you know what? Why are they catching the rocket? That, to me, is cowardly. Let it crash to earth. show it who's boss.

But he's built this company. He's clearly better than everyone who tries to do what he does at what he does. Okay, that's great. Yeah. But there must be something in childhood that means he constantly wants to be funny. He constantly thinks if I made the Odyssey, I'd make it properly. You're aware of the father. Yeah, I mean, it's always.

I mean, sorry, do you think, so I was thinking of a TV, you know, when Sopranos came out and everyone thought it's funny, the idea of a mobster having a therapist. Yeah. Do you think that many of these, I was really thinking this the other day, do you think that many of these tech billionaires have therapists? No, but don't you remember the stupidest idea that's ever been had for a podcast? And that means something, as you know, was Megan and Harry's idea of like talking to world, people like Putin and saying, you know, it's effectively sort of asking about their childhood and therapyizing them.

Okay. Which, I mean, I would watch it if they managed to do it. If you're telling me that Vladimir Putin's going to sit down with Megan Harry and they're going to talk about their childhoods. I'm interested. If you don't think, I'm keeping it locked on that. Of course. But you can see, you can absolutely, I mean, they say the quiet bit out loud all the time, these tech titans, this envy they have for a certain sector of society, this desire to be funny, this desire to be liked in a creative way, this desire to take what it is they've been able to do in business and sort of come across as a person. who is likable and has some creative talent.

But someone must be talking to them about this. Someone must be going, you know it's okay. Look at what you've created. Look at what you've achieved. You're the richest man in the world. And you're excellent at the space thing. Yeah. Maybe you're wrong about the honesty.

You literally are a cultural embassy. I'm so sorry. Your favourite books are Lord of the Rings, you know, the Fountainhead, Iron. You're so basic, I can't even tell you. And that's fine because you're amazing at the space thing. That's actually fine. You can't be non-basic. Most parts of your life you have to be basic in

in order to have the bandwidth to be good at the thing that you're good at. Yes. Yeah. And also, you also have no idea of how anything, I mean, I can't even believe I'm having slightly talk about this. But the way that works of art, this is 2,700, 200,000, 800 years old, how they are reinterpreted over time. And it really doesn't matter if someone said,

someone's got golden hair. You might have seen all different types of Shakespeare. performed all different interpretations. It's kind of what keeps them alive. Exactly that. Certainly not the first one to have a non-white Helen of Troy. Orson Wells cast Arthur Kit as Helen of Troy. Woke.

Yeah. Was Orson Wells Oweil, you idiot, Musk. Do you know who he is? Awesome Wells found her in an Arthur Kit who went on to have... This is really right at the start of her career. Oh, really? He found her in a lesbian drag bar in Paris. again, how woke, that I think was run of Marlena Dietrich's exes.

Wow. And she was playing a man, Arthur Kitt was playing a man called Fred every night. She was an underground sensation in the world of, you know, sort of after-hous lesbian Paris. And Orson Well said she was the most exciting woman on Earth. The most exciting woman on Earth was his quote. And therefore, when he did a stage thing, he got her to be Helen of Troy. That's amazing. Yes.

But was he woke? I don't think so. This is a nonsense. He's an artist. Artists want to do interesting. Christopher Nolan, when he decides to do the Odyssey, he's not thinking, I'm going to do this exactly like the book. And for lots of reasons. One, the book already exists.

Two, this story has been told, retold a million times. So he only goes anywhere near it if he can do something that tells us that story but also tells us about the times we live in. That's the thing that interests him to make an incredible spectacle, to make a piece of art and to do something that is going to entertain audiences. Now your starting point for that is not Let's start on Word 1 of the Odyssey And end on the final word And make sure everyone looks exactly like they're described It's just not

There's not a single artist in the history of the world Who's got a cyclops in it I mean It's ridiculous This is like when people have an absolute meltdown About what can happen to Doctor Who And you're like I don't know he's got two arts

He's an alien I mean presumably quite a lot of things can happen But thinking of his cultural life As I've said We know he likes Atlas Shrugged We know he likes Lord of the Rings I mean we could have got like a really bad version of his AI to tell us this.

We know he was playing that game Eldon Ring, which he was playing obsessively when he bought Twitter. And that is now being made by Alex Garland. Oh, God. Careful, Alex. Yeah. Careful. Will it be satisfying to him?

I do actually, I think I've said this take on this podcast before, but I've got a theory about why guys like Elon Musk really, really like those historical things and those kind of weird fantasy worlds that are. effectively just kind of just off versions of history. It's because women always get treated like complete shit in them. Always. But it's fine because that's how it was. Yeah, because it's the past.

Yeah, it's a product of its times, even if that time is a fantasy time. So there were points with Game of Thrones where when it deviated from the book and when they were literally adding in rapes, I was thinking, I don't know, why do people like this so much? I love Game of Thrones. But I think you have to be clear-eyed about what's happening. There's a particular form of like, I'm really into this type of historical, this historical fantasy world. And this is a fantasy.

I mean, as I say, it's got Cyclops in. It's got all sorts of monsters in it. It's fantasy. So to really mind about the skin color is sort of extraordinary. They're also saying she's supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world. And you cannot tell me that Lepito Nongo is the most beautiful woman in the world. Wuppie Goldberg said, mate, have you looked in a mirror? You shouldn't be talking about looks.

Oh, she is wonderful. And she's also, can I just say, such a small part in this, but anyhow. I know, that's the thing. But it has nonetheless caught fire because, of course, he owns the town square and he puts himself right in the middle of the town square. And I think you do have to keep things secret to some degree. And it's not even equivalent, but they really did it so successfully with Barbie, which is no one really knew what it was. The pictures that had come off set were when they were shooting on location when they kind of appear in those kind of bright clothes, Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie in Venice Beach and it's kind of in the real

world because otherwise, for obvious reasons, it was all filmed in kind of control studio environments. Nobody knew about it. They kept the plot and that tone, which was so unbelievably distinctive and amazing secret. And the stuff you'd seen was kind of pink and goofy. So no one really knew what it was going to be. And when it came out and it was like, oh my God, is someone like done a feminist Barbie what? Yes. then all the pundits attacked it

but by then it was a juggernaut and also it was really good which let's hope is the case with I'm sure why wouldn't it be the case with the Odyssey and even Fox News who created massive everyone all the online right as usual created massive hit pieces against it

but it couldn't stop it and even Fox had to agree that it was really big in the red states and people were turning out for this film so that's an interesting one but they kept everything so completely secret And in that case, it was about the tone. But it can have an effect on the bottom line. I would talk to one person, a producer, and said, can any of this stuff?

And they said, it's Christopher Nolan. So he's an entity unto himself. He brings people into the cinemas in a way that stars used to in old days. And he's bigger than a star. He will bring people out to see his films. And that is terrific. So, again, we're slightly talking about a unicorn. But when they do have these pre-backlashes, as it were,

against a film that has yet to come out. Front lash. Yeah, a front lash. It can depress turnout amongst casual audiences. They think there's a sort of culture war fatigue thing where people just think, oh God, I haven't got the energy for it. Even though, don't worry, it's not a culture war. It's not even the Trojan War.

Don't worry, it's really, it's a journey home. And there are times when it can really dominate the narrative. And if you look at what happened with Ghostbusters or with Little Mermaid, it just sort of took over. All female Ghostbusters got such a pasting. I think that was completely unfair. Yeah, I love that film. The Little Mermaid, I don't know, it's just a live-action version of it,

but they had such a backlash. I mean, that should just be a gimmie and it's just fine, and you go to cinema and watch The Little Mermaid. She's a mermaid. Again, please try and suspend your disbelief that she could possibly be non-white. It doesn't really matter. So both those things were definitely affected by Front Lash.

So it is very hard to kill a grate. It's very hard to kill a grate. and I think that people will just turn out for this. Also, you know, the whole thing reminds me of how much easier the world is for people who are not conflict-averse. As someone who's deeply conflict-averse, you know, that's hard to monetise. If you do not mind being in an argument the whole time, my God, there are pots of money you can pick up in this world, aren't they? It's like insane, but again, that's... It's almost like his full-time job is arguing, and then he's just got this bizarre side-hustle as an unbelievably leading kind of space aeronautics guy.

So, I mean, even, you know, this week, you know, again, he's having to go at Christopher O'Olin. Now he's having to go at Anthropic a couple of months ago. And now he's back in business with him because GROC doesn't seem to be working. So, you know, he's now sort of teaming up with Anthropic. It's like, it's almost like he doesn't mean almost everything he says. Yeah. And you just think, well, they just don't say it. Just do the good things that you did.

I do think he means the race stuff. I think he has certainly made many comments that would appear to be racist. But he wrote something recently on his platform, which he, he, even he deleted. Wow. I know. It was like in the middle of the night. I don't even know if he keeps normal as I assume he doesn't in the compound with all the baby mothers.

And he wrote, bitches, money, no taxes, party. That party was really so unclear. I was like, is this like a social gathering, in which case I'll live with it? Or is this a political party that optimises for the other three line items? What were they getting? Bitches, money, no taxes, party. Money and no taxes are sort of the same. thing really, aren't they?

Yeah, I mean, you couldn't argue with it because you're taking it down by the... And it's certainly a think piece. Yeah, I think that was it. I mean, whether anyone's making a film of that in 300 years' time, I don't know. Three years. It's between 2,700, 200, 200 years. Whether someone's making a film of that in 2,800 years' time, I don't know.

But it's a thing, isn't it? I've seen actually quite a lot of films with that plot line. Yeah, that's true. So it's possible there will be stories written. but maybe, yeah, but he deleted it, so I guess he doesn't have the copy of it. So what do we conclude? We conclude, it's just weird. It's just weird that they have to have an opinion on all of this stuff.

You don't have, if you're going to make everyone else stay out of their things, which, by the way, I don't mind people talking about whatever they like, but do be aware that your opinions are very, very, they're boring and they're stupid. But also, they can't have therapists. There's no way. There's no way that Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a front. fortnight with someone wise to talk to them about their charted and talk to them about why they are how they are.

Yeah, I mean, I'm quite a good big believer in pushing it all down, you know. Yes, oh, I'm certain of that. Do you know, do you know that comes across? So maybe, you know, they're in the elder pushing it down. I mean, I don't know where you'd start with that father with him. I would write a show, though, about a billionaire's therapist. That's got because they have someone for everything. like they have full-time staff

for physical staff you know, have chefs, they have everything you would think that they would have like an on-staff therapist but then maybe you get institutionalised and you get Stockholm syndrome and then the therapist just turns into AI and tells them what they want to...

That person has power of a type Yeah, and they don't want anyone else to have power. No. Yeah. No, I mean they have to be the top of the old org chart. Yes. Maybe they do. Maybe they do. If they do, by the way,

that's a really bad therapist also has terrible opinions I mean really what are you doing that's a therapist who's not a fan of Christopher Nolan shall we take a break and after which we will be talking about snooker this big break show you were talking about

I've not heard of it I think you'd like it okay this episode is brought to you by Lloyd's now I love it when characters are part of the club you wouldn't know anything about that would you Richard the Thursday Murder Club in some ways

reminds me of the A team I would now like to map each of those characters onto the A-Team and feel I probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even close. That's exactly right. And Ron is howling Mad Murdoch. Well, there are definite perks to being in a club. Just ask the members of Club Lloyds, because with Club Lloyds, you can bank on Lloyds to give you more wherever you are. If you join Club Lloyds, there's all sorts of benefits you can choose between.

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Hey, this is Michael and Hannah from Gollhangers. The Rest is Science. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Research UK. We often think of beating cancer as treatment, but imagine stopping it before it begins. After years of work, Cancer Research UK scientists are launching a clinical trial of lung vax, the first vaccine designed to prevent lung cancer. It builds on TracerX, the world's largest cancer evolution study, which tracked lung cancer cells over many years to uncover the disease's earliest warning signs. Lung Vax is designed to train the immune system to spot these signs early on, destroying faulty cells before cancer develops.

So it's not treatment, but preventative with the potential to stop lung cancer before it starts. The first stage of the trial starts this year focusing on people at higher risk. It shows what long-term research makes possible. For more information about cancer research UK, their research breakthroughs and how you can support them, visit cancer research UK.org forward slash the rest is science. Welcome back, everybody. With breaking news, our lovely producer, Joey, we were just looking into whether Elon Musk has ever had therapy.

He said this in 2024, just in case we're in doubt. He said, put never went to therapy on my gravestone. I mean, okay, by the way, goes on to say, and this, I don't know if the two are connected, it feels like there's just a rage of horses in my mind constantly. Put a rage of horses on his. Rage of horses is good, Elon. That's a good bit of writing.

That is a great collective now. To be fair. Yeah, to be fair. You didn't know you were doing it. But I would say... If you post that many times, eventually you're going to write one good to eat. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, I'd like to explore his relationship with weakness.

Yeah. I think that would be an interesting thing to talk to him about. What shame that Megan and Harry podcast series never happened? I would have very, very much enjoyed it. I would have loved that. Now, talking of royalty. Yeah. Okay.

There are often reboots on television, and a particular show which people have said for years and years and years, when are they going to reboot this, has just been rebooted. Big Break is back. It's a big break, which was a huge show from 1991 through to 2002. I would have sworn it started in the 80s. Are you?

That's good. Wow. Okay, I'm not going to explain any more of it. Yes, you are. That's a short item. I'm having a drink, so you're going to have to. That's good. 200 odd episodes presented by Jim Davidson and the wonderful late John Virgo.

He was the royalty in the reference rather than Jim Davidson. Yes, I think the format was the royalty. Yeah. Really. But Virga was so amazing. And by the way, I would be talking about royalties and formats in the context of this as well. So it's all coming together. But yes, John Virgo was royalty in this context.

So, yeah, big break is coming back. and there was a lot of hooplaar about it. Used to be Jim Davidson and John Virgo. It's now Paddy McGuinness, who never saw a reboot he didn't like. And Stephen Hendry. The coolest man in the world. In my opinion. Certainly one of them.

And the announcement has been well received, I think, because people love Paddy. And Stephen Hendry is very, very good as well. So I think it will be good. I just wanted to go through a little bit about what a weird show Big Break is, where it came from, why it came about, when it came about, why it is coming back and the job that it is going to do for the BBC, because it's not the job that people have been writing about that it's going to do, that's for sure.

So big break comes about, invented sort of in the late 80s, because Bullseye had been such a big hit. And Bullseye is a simple thing. You've got a darts player and you've got a quizer and something that the quiz does sort of affects what the dark player does and something that the dark player does sort of affects what the quizer does. And there's prizes. And, you know, Snoke was absolutely enormous.

You know, that mid-80s onwards era. it was so huge. At some point, somebody was going to do bullseye for snooker. Now, for years and years and years, it was credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp, but they then were sued by a cabby called Roger Medcalf from Birmingham and had to pay him 100 grand and give him a third of the format as well. Really?

Yeah, I know. Normally that's not the case, right? Because what had happened was Roger Medcalf and Mike Kemp, who were friends, had said, we should do a bull's eye but for snooker. And so they had this idea. Mike Kemp knew Terry Mardell. Now, Terry Mardell had just had a big hit with Bob's Full House,

which essentially bingo as a quiz show. And so Mike Kemp goes, I've got a friend who knows how to format a TV show. Terry Mardell takes this in, looks at it. He says it was an absolute mess, but we turned it into something, and the BBC loved it and bought it, and so it became a TV show.

And it was credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp, and McCaff many years later said, but I did come up with that with Mike and we took it to Terry, and so he's got the money, it's good. It sounds like no one was really trying to con anyone. It was just one of those things. I see, when you said a cab driver,

I thought that he had said it to them in a cab. In a cab, no, I don't think so. Oh, can I do a sidebar? Yeah, always. Bullseye had been a hit. Yeah. Big break is a huge hit. So they decide, okay, well, let's do this again.

We're going to do this for golf. And they did one series. I remember seeing it at the time, thinking this is really unacceptably awful. They did a show called Full Swing with Jimmy Tarbuck. Oh.

I remember that. Yeah. I mean, they only did one series. It's the old pro. I mean, they're all pro-am shows basically. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And golf, obviously, you would think

would be, or could in the right hands be made for it. Well, they had a sort of, you know, a very early computer screen thing way that you hit a ball at just back before that technology really worked. This is really coming out of a memory. A weird potting green.

Their version of the trick shop was a sort of big contraption. The studio potting green, right? Yes, in this studio putting green. They had this big contraption where you just tapped the ball into it and it went around lots of things and then went in the hole. So there was never any jeopardy. That lasted for one series. Anyway, that's just how TV works.

Bulls-eye baguettes big break and that begets full swing. And then you never have to do any of those ever again. So BBC are bringing it back and people have been trying to pitch this for a few years. I've been pitched it before because I love Snooker and people know that. And when I was mentioned to me, I was like, I love Snooker. This is not the show. I would not do this show very well. It's not something that I would be particularly good at.

And that was, I think, for five, because five have now got lots of the snooker. But the BBC had bought it back, but bought it back in a very interesting way. It is for BBC 2 daytime. Yeah. Nothing is for BBC 2 daytime anymore. It's 6 o'clock. You get House of Games and stuff like that. there is nothing now in that kind of 2pm till 6pm.

So it's for BBC 2 is for daytime. And what it is, and it's an object lesson in everything has to do a number of different jobs now if you want it to be commissioned. What they are doing, they're doing 20 episodes of it, and it will do a number of things for them. Firstly, it will be a program that they can just put out, see how it does. Just like in the old days where you'd commission a program and I wonder if people will watch it. And if they do, you put it out again. So they will do that And if people love it

They can do a prime time version of it But what they're also doing is doing it So every time the snooker is on And the BBC have just signed a deal to 2032 For the World Championships The Masters in the UK Open Which are the Triple Crown events They have this stuff

Absolutely ready to go They'll have these 20 episodes They'll probably do another 20 They'll probably do another 20 And it just means when the snooker comes on Which does really good business for BBC 2 They have this thing That they can play throughout breaks in

the frames, which is a big deal for them, and then can sit on eye player forever. And every time the snooker is on and people are interested in snooker, like people get interested in tennis every time. Wimbledon's on, they have this thing on the eye player. So it's one of those ones. It's not going to be expensive. They certainly, they used to film four a day. They probably will again.

But it will be an accompaniment to their snooker programming, which is nice for them. It'll be a lovely thing that sits on eye player. And if people like it, suddenly they will have a hit on their hands and they can put it on Saturday night. But it's, I find it such a fascinating commission because it's not like any other, as I say, no one's commissioned anything for BBC daytime for BBC two daytime for about eight years. I mean, they just haven't. And now suddenly we've got one of the biggest brands in British TV sitting there with big, big, big name hosts. And I like to see that chemistry. I think Stephen Henry is really funny. He really is. And Paddy is great with people.

I will really like to see him. Yeah. So Terry Mardale is very interesting who came up with this. There are other names, but Terry was a stand-up comic. And back in those eras in the world of light entertainment, there were lots of stand-up comics who sort of was started writing gags for hosts did warm up. Terry Mardale did warm up. His brother, Wally Mardell did warm up as well. So Terry Mardale not only came up with Bob's Full House, but he was also the warm-up for Bob's Full House as well. had a big hit show in America called Sweethearts, which was a sort of a dating show. But the show he did immediately after Big Break, had an interesting lineage to it. So he had this hit with Big Break. And suddenly America gets interested in Bob's Full House.

So Terry Mardell goes out to Hollywood, signed up with William Morris, the biggest agency. He's first person he meets as a junior guy called Mark Etkin, who did not stay junior for long, is fated out in Hollywood. America decides to do their version of Bob's Full House. So he goes from Big Break with Jim Davidson and John Virgo to the American version of Bob's Full House.

And there's a clue in the name here, which is called Trump Card. And it is filmed at Trump Castle Casino in Las Vegas. And the first episode, absolutely front and center in it is Donald Trump. But yeah, so Terry Mardale went straight from pot as many balls as you can to the future president of the United States. States. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I really need to see an episode of Trump card. Of Trump card. Yeah.

That's not one of the casinos he somehow can drive to bankrupt. Yes. Oh, it is one of the ones. It's now the, I think it's the golden nugget now, I think. Yeah. So, yeah, big break is back. I've read a couple of things saying, oh, it's just going to be trick shots, which is not, it's going to be exactly pretty much exactly the same as the previous one. Quizzes and potting would be a bit different. And genuinely, I think, how lovely, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing it already. But the reason their commissioning is because it's a really great thing to go with their commitment

to snooker and so they might as well have a punt at it. And if I was Paddy, I think Paddy's the perfect person for it. I would not have been, but he definitely is. And Hendry will be great too. Even though he's on the first ever, ever episode of Big Break, Stephen Hendry.

Yeah, doing very badly as well. I'm sure he'll be the first to admit. Okay, that's really fun. Okay, well I'm looking forward to that. And that's big break. See how that works. We're now going to talk about the Cannes Film Festival, which is happening now. You'll have a film festival in the case of Cannes. Films from all the way around the world are submitted. The festival programmers pick a small number, some of which are shown in competition,

some out of competition and the ones in competition are judged. And at the same time, there are lots of other screenings of things, not all finished, some partially finished independent stuff that needs more funding or needs distribution or whatever. So it's sort of an art festival and sort of a kind of meat market for films. And in Cannes, they have a festival director who's been there 25 years. He's called Thierry Fremmer.

Because it's France, they call him the general delegate. Of course they do. And he's got lots of views about things like he won't show Netflix films because of the theatrical window. That's so French. Yeah, well, the French are so committed. Well, if you go, you know, if you walk past a cinema in Paris, They have so many, you know, they've got a real commitment showing French films,

and they have obviously a very long theatrical window, and they're very committed to kind of keeping their art kind of non-globalized to some degree, a percentage of it. They love French films in France. Over there, they call them films, right? Yeah. I mean, it's mad. I don't even know what they've got.

Like French food in France, they call it food. It's so odd. It's one of the thing I couldn't get my head around while I was there. The thing about the Cannes Film Festival is that it sort of signified, And I know you're thinking, were the Oscars not 15 minutes ago? And in a way they were, because they were in March. But it sort of, in this period in May, signified the start of the awards campaign and the sort of prestige economy. And also, you would have maybe a big splashy premiere of a Hollywood film that's not in competition.

But it's kind of like, oh, here we are. We're going to show a Star Wars film or something else. And you might also have people such as Quentin Tarantino showing a big film and then it will win one of their big prizes. and you can sort of feel like, the juggernaut begins. But this year is notable for something quite shocking. There are no US studio films, and even people like Focus Features, A-24,

are not taking any films. They should call it the Kant Film Festival. Yeah, it's different in French, say. And another thing I can get my head around. So they haven't even got a sort of splashy premiere tied to release. I mean, they've definitely not got The Odyssey, which we know that's coming out. They haven't got the Spielberg film.

So all these people have big ties to Cannes. They haven't got the Alexander in your video film with Tom Cruise, digger that's coming out later in the year. They haven't got any of these things. So why is the question? And the answer really is because of risk. It's May. The studios are now in a kind of completely connected online world.

It is so different. I mean, I've talked to people who take things to Can and just said, it is so stressful, you know immediately whether your thing that you've lavished all your love and attention, whatever, and money, crucially. which we'll get to, has worked. You can just feel it. It's in the air. It's in the response.

People are just saying, now that's not going to run. And it's, you know, it's May and you've somehow got to get your stars out there if they're on an awards campaign all the way till next March. So it's a tough school. So,

yeah, studios mostly want to keep their awards movies to the final third of the year. So you might, the Venice Film Festival is in September. So that's better. But if you look at last year, you know, there was real potential for damage films that people can, films that people thought

were going to be big like, Die My Love or Eddington, they sort of something went wrong and people thought, oh, these aren't going to work. And there's something about the critics, the French critics particularly, but also lots of the critics. By the way, everything

gets as you know, a ridiculously longstanding evasion, which is completely, completely meaningless. The critics, however, are meaningful and they can be quite harsh and it's a really uncontrollable environment. So it used to be that the absolute key thing in all these industries is buzz and this was absolutely the place to get early buzz but now early buzz you sort of don't want to anymore.

You've got the thing. It's can. It costs a million to take a film to can. And that's just the popcorn. You've got to stage the premiere. You've got to take the stars and all the people around them. You've got to have all their travel, accommodation. You've got to have the marketing around it.

because it can't just sort of happen. There have to be other stuff happening. Jet ski trips. Yeah, the various things. Yeah, get me off this yacht helicopters. That sort of thing. But there's so much now that can go wrong. If you look at the Berlin Festival earlier this year

where lots of journalists were asking stars to reveal their positions on Israel and Gaza, why would you not retreat, which is what they're all doing now, into an arena where it is far more, that's far more protective of your talent, and you're much more able to control it, and your overall investment in a film,

which is quite an expensive activity is protected. So it's all about control. And to some extent, you'll say, oh, well, maybe then these festivals can become what they were, which is that, and that's what people, you know, because they have to find a positive, do they become things that surface great international films and celebrate European and international films? But actually, they do need the studios, but they're going to have to find a way of dealing with something that you can't, something can't derail it. The one thing that's in their favour is that stars have to be beyond persuaded that they don't want this.

To say because the star wants their movie to start in either Cannes or Venice. And they sort of prefer Can because it's just it's just the sort of in their head, the Primo brand. There's no particular reason for that. But legacy. Yeah, legacy. They grew up watching people at the Cannes film festival. And then you have to try and dissuade them of the fact that, They really, really want to be put in an uncontrolled environment where their film could be,

it might not be, since the film won't be probably coming out until October, that you don't want to be put in that environment where you could say the wrong thing or you could just not say anything and your silence would be violence or whatever it is. It's usually pretty easy to persuade actors to do something they don't want to do. Yes. But I think the fact that everybody has managed to do it this time around, you know, and what they do do when they bring them out in a different way and they don't go over these big festivals, is that they bring them out and they have, you know, there's a controlled access.

And I think there's a fundamental difference between allowing critics to see the film and just say what they think about them. And people, honestly, expecting people to have a view on every little piece of, or big piece of global politics or everything that's going on in a country at the time or everything, to have, making everyone have a view of this in a press conference in your film about whatever it is. Then you've got to hear what Elon Musk's got to say about it. Yeah.

Yeah. Just ask them about rockets. Yeah. But the basic principle is if you really care about something, you spend a long time on it and you're worried about whether it's good or not, do not choose the first group of people you show it to be French. Because they will not be polite if they don't like it. Well, I mean, the only international critics, kind of, there's a sort of pride in lots of that. But it's just a long haul. The award season now is so those campaigns go on for nine months.

And if you start now, that's sort of going on for 10 months. Yeah. But yeah, so they're trying to control for while, you know, the film is in your screening rooms and your edit. And with your PR, you can control, control, control, control. The second it is out in the world, whatever you planned, whatever momentum you've planned, that can be derailed. And so try and derail it as late as possible in the process. Yes. Or it's less likely to be direct.

They're quite sort of down. and dirty the festivals in some way. And you've got lots and lots of rooms and people are sitting on a stage and people could ask you anything. But I just think it's become a matter of risk. It's so expensive to do all these things. Never mind the cost of taking it there.

The film itself is so expensive. And it's whether you just want to expose it to being torn down. In many cases, eight months before release, never mind before the award ceremony or whatever it is you think you're going for. Leave that to one side. It's the idea that you just can't,

You just can't sustain it off that and it sort of falls off the screen. I'd rather launch in Venice. For people I know who go to them say, it's so much, that can is awful and it's so much better. And it's a much more lovely affair, yeah. We've covered a lot of ground this week, haven't we? Can we both, I think we're both going to give the same recommendation this week,

which we did last week with Legends, which, by the way, have now finished and is even better than I said it was last week. But this week, Rivals is back. We can't recommend anything else. other than that. Actually, no, I can. Okay, first of all, yes, we recommend rivals. I will recommend the video for the new Harry Stiles single.

Oh, really? Dance No More. There's a lot of dancing in it. What happens in it? A lot of dancing. Okay, but you like it? I like him. Okay, I'm going to be doing that as soon as we finish.

Not dancing. Watch Harry Styles dance. Yeah, you can't compete. No. I don't dance after, I know Dominic Sandbrook, but I don't dance immediately after a podcast. Right. We will be back on Thursday with a Q&A.

Then tomorrow, the first in a special bonus series. I'm very excited about this. It's so cool. Okay. I am talking to James Kanagosurium, who is a brilliant pollster, brilliant politics, but also, because he's plugged into all the currents and opinions and things that shape our culture, we're going to be talking. I'm doing a series of him, talking to him about six absolutely fascinating topics.

And the one that's coming out tomorrow, and everyone can listen to this, this first one, is about tradwives and tradwife content. Amazing. It's really interesting. There's so much stuff in there that you were like anyway, Richard. Yeah, so that's going to be for the members, but the first one, just to, because it's absolutely for everybody, see if you can like it, and I have yet to hear it,

but I've heard you talk about it, and I'm very, very excited to hear it as well. It's really cool. Okay. So if you want to join, it's the rest of entertainment.com. Everyone can listen to that tomorrow. Otherwise, see you on Thursday. See you on Thursday.