The Rest Is Entertainment - How To Get Rich From Fan-Fiction

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Is sound on nature documentaries fake? How do golf camera operators follow those tiny balls? How can you become a fan-fiction millionaire? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer your questions on the world of sport, literature and much more. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Max Archer Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky. Now, whether it's Scorsese and De Niro, Brits and a queue, or Glenn Powell and a slow-motion entrance into frame, some things are just better together. And Sky and Netflix do just that. Two heavyweight storytellers side by side on the Sky Essential TV package for just £15 a month, all in one place and on one bill. Call it the full ensemble. Sky Originals bringing gangs of London and the Day of the Jackal, Netflix delivering global obsessions like Squid Game and Wednesday. sky atlantic discovery plus and more than 90 other channels to that list and you've got the kind of line-up that bends the week around it turning ordinary evenings into events sky and netflix together for 15 pounds a month premium shows endless choice and a lineup that feels complete all in one place visit sky dot com to start requires relevant sky tv and third-party subscriptions sky essential tv includes a selection of sky channels 18 plus uk channel islands and i love man only Hello and welcome to this episode of the Resters Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition.

I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hello, Marina. Still getting over our bonus episode from last night about celebrity traitors. If you haven't listened... I'm heavily outdated. Yeah, we will not be speaking about celebrity traitors on this. Do not worry if you've not seen that first episode.

No. As soon as you do, then feel free to listen to that bonus episode. But do not listen to it until you have in the meantime some lovely questions. In the meantime, do you remember we talked about last week, we talked about our own theme tune, the theme music of Oh, yes, and who wrote it. And he wrote it, who was a composer called Tim Garland

and he sometimes composes library music. Grammy winning composer. Grammy winning. He has written to us. No. He says, I wrote the theme, Livetian style, and I thought I dropped you a line

to prove what you said that we composers don't know how our music's going to be used and it's lovely to find out. So sorry, he hasn't, he has not heard the podcast. Wow. Tim, I mean, that is unbelievable.

Well, yeah, it's not totally clear, is it? Oh, I think that's totally clear. He said it's lovely to find out. Got involved in any of our biggest arguments here, so I'm guessing he's never heard of him before. Tim, we played this at the Albert Hall. He says it's been a joy to write in different musical stars and also crucial that as a composer, one has a genuine love of them.

I wrote this theme after watching High Society. I told you I could come down a big staircase to it and was moved again to recall the story of the big beautiful impact Louis Armstrong's band made in a world that was not a. afraid to show its prejudice. He says, talking of not knowing when one's music was used, I recorded a rather tricky piece for bass clarinet, only to find out years later it had been used in a Scandinavian advert called I Can't Stop Farting.

Amazing. Obviously, I did what any self-respecting composer would do and tried to find it on Google, which resulted in getting a whole load of medical adverts in my feed for months afterwards. I still have never seen the advert, any clues anyone. Can anyone help? Tim Garland, composer of our great theme. music to find out about this advert in a way that will stop him having flatulets-related products beamed into his feed for all eternity.

Well, they're going to come a time where they'll welcome it. You know, so, I mean, you might age into it, Tim. How lovely, though. That is lovely. What a lovely-sounding man. That's amazing. If you know that, I can't stop farting ever, do please tell us. And thank you so much, Tim.

Everyone now opening a private browsing window because you just don't want to invite it. Why are you on private? Honestly, you would not believe me. You know, let's just say I'm looking at porn because that's going to be easier than the actual explanation. Can I ask you a question? Please. This is about something that's been in the news. We've had a few questions on this.

Richard Milnes asked, what is the deal with the Tilly Norwood AI actor? And could I get one of Marina's hot takes on if and how this changes actors' negotiation power? Tell us about Tilly Norwood. Tilly Norwood is an AI actress actor, created by a company. We know that she exists because at a tech conference, a woman called Aline van der Velden

announced... She's a Dutch comic, right? She says, oh, everybody is clamouring to represent her. I have agencies in Hollywood. Sure. Okay. Yeah, I'll come back to that. Clammering to represent her.

She's like a fake... She looks like a normal human being. She talks relatively like a normal human being. And she's been launched as, oh, this is the next big AI style. I think this lady said, I want her to be the new Scarlet, you're handsome. I think, you know.

I don't doubt it for a second. I'm sure you do. That sounds like that would be really profitable. I want to open the batting for England, but it doesn't matter. You never know. Never give up on your dreams. Now, what does this actually mean? We were offered her, actually.

We were offered Tilly Norwood as a Q&A subject for this podcast. Oh, my, come on, guys. And I thought, what's that actually mean? It doesn't mean anything. We email us some questions. Do you know what? What a grift. What a grift from start to finish.

Anyone in the world can do this. And just because you've got one and people are talking about it, it is so pathetic. I'll tell you what, we'll interview her. If she comes down, does she fancy it on a rainy Wednesday in Stoke? Can she do it on a Monday morning in the basement at Spotify in person? What's the name of this lady who's invented her again? Aline van der Velde.

You can invent all the AI actors and actresses you want. You do it until the end of time. why is anybody booking your AI actor? If there's going to be AI actors in the future a studio will have their own AI actor because then they own it okay. An agent is not going to sign your AI

actor because an agent, if AI acting goes anywhere, will have their own AI actors which are controlled by them and they will use their talent to write for these people and do stuff for these people. This is 100% aggrift. The one good thing about it is it's brought out SAGAFRA

and everyone just saying, no, come on this absolutely pathetic. It's great that the first version of this is quite so obviously a money grab and quite so sort of poorly done that everyone's able to go. Oh yeah, a lot of Hollywood agencies are interested. In your AI actor, I don't, I genuinely don't think so. I can assure you that none of the like CAA, WME, UTA, the big ones, you think they're going to annoy all their actual real life talent. I mean, somebody showed it to Emily Blunt. She said, I haven't heard this story and they showed it to her during the interview and she was like, oh my God, agents don't do this.

It's like, I'm going to lose Emily Blunt so I can have Tilly Nour. Okay, is Tilly Nour going to get her ass out on the red carpet like Emily Blunt is and take her next movie all the way around the world and promote it. Okay. No, they're not. Having said all that, there will be agencies who provide, who are essentially who provide AI actors and actresses and they are already out there and they will be very, very successful and they will make huge amounts of money.

The talent agencies will not do it on books in that way in any way because they will annoy their human talent. A lot of these jobs that used to go to actors to human actors have already been automated. There's lots of voice work to hear. Lots of voice work. You know, around all the time in phone systems. In the old days, you would have actually got someone to do the voiceover of.

It sounds ridiculous. But so much of this stuff has become automated. And there will be a point where there's all sorts of people who, you know, At a certain price point, this is already automated. It's not automated at the Emily Blunt price point or anybody else. I'm only using her because she was shown the argument and forced to react to it in real time. And again, that journalist thing is saying Emily Blunt has spoken out. If she hasn't spoken out, you showed her something as she reacted.

She's had to say it. Yeah, if you ever see an article saying someone has spoken out, just take a look. Did they actually speak out? Or were they showing something? And did they say, yeah, this sounds like a terrible idea. I mean, this type of journalism could certainly be automated. I think it has been I think real people ask these questions

and soon they won't be If Tilly Norwood is looking for a job There are jobs in journalism for her Oh yeah I'm sure she's perfectly good And whatever and you don't, you know Have to, she's not nuts And you don't have to drug her

And all the other things That people say about human actors You know what Probably better than Emma Watson He's great but you have to Wow What? Am I wrong? Wow

Yeah, that's unbelievable You're so in your friends I've seen the films Anyway, it does show that media outlets will print any of these things if it's to do with AI And I'll love to say that this is a fake person But we're going to keep seeing this stuff And many of the jobs have already gone over to AI And people just don't like to think about it

None of those big jobs are going to go over to AI Of course, the big human actor jobs But huge other parts of the supply chain Are already going over to AI The studios are already doing this So she's a sort of harbinger of one type of thing but she's not a realistic threat on her own. No, what she is on her own is someone, yeah, trying to take advantage of knowing they're going to get free publicity,

which they have, and we're talking about it as well. But that's why I'm talking about it quite so bluntly, because I want to say, yes, we are talking about it, but it is a grift, right? This isn't, you know, a studio could absolutely one day have an AI Robert De Niro, right? That is worth some money to them, and Robert De Niro can make some money out of that, and there would be three people writing it. You know, that is a possibility. this sort of nonsense though that you're going to build this huge star is there will be an accidental AI star one day for sure but just going oh my god guys I've had the best idea I'm going to launch an AI actor you think you know what stop being so 10 years ago I mean it's such it's so boring and yes hopefully we hear nothing more about her she's got a very English name yeah Tilly Norwood I mean genuinely Tilly Norwood sounds like someone who would open the batting for England do you think yeah no I don't know I don't

don't think so any longer. I think there's been a changing of the guard in people who'd opened the back of England and I'm pleased to say so. Well, this feels like a different podcast all of a sudden. Anyway, we're not doing that. We have a question from Donna Karen who has taken the time to say no, not that one. Wow. Well, she doesn't know which one we're thinking of. But there are two other Donna Caron's, are there? No, but I wasn't thinking of the fashion designer, Donna Caron. When I heard the name, I was thinking of our listener, Donna Caron. So, in which case, this is the fashion designer. Right.

Because I'm thinking of the listener. Right. She spells her name differently. Let's just move on to her question. Wow. Is sound on nature documentaries real? If so, how do they get microphones there? And how does this work underwater?

That's a good question. Yeah, I love this so much. This is a question. This, it won't show you to know, is not my area. But I know a man whose area is. So I asked the wonderful Steve Baxhaw. The last time I saw Steve Baxhaw, he was in the House of Getshall. James studio and a pigeon got in and he showed us how to catch and safely take a pigeon out of a

studio. By the way, that's a huge thing. That's so helpful. We had one up on the, in the rafters in the front of it. It was an absolute nightmare. Oh, really? Yeah, you just couldn't get it out. They're so high and you just can't get it out. Yeah, you need backshaw. You need, what did he, how did he, sorry, this is a sidebar, but how do he, Marina's written in to say. Yes. I'm sorry, what's, what is Marina hide. No, not that one. In a humane way. In a humane way, how do you get a pigeon out of a studio? Yeah, so there was a pigeon there and he's flying up and then he's on the floor and someone had the bright idea of saying, Steve, is there any way?

He goes, yeah, I can get rid of a pigeon. We're going to, oh, my God, this is going to be amazing. He's got to do something like with his throat or something. And he literally just walked up behind it really, really, really slowly and then just grabbed it with both hands and then took it to the scene dock and out it flew. So it was, I mean, it's impressive because I've never seen anyone catch a pigeon before, but it wasn't like, oh my God, I've no. It's not like a hack.

I see, I was thinking it was in the rafters because that is... It was for a bit because it was a bird, so it was fairly mobile. It was able to, yeah. Thanks for explaining birds to me. Yeah. I mean, if it had been in the rafters, that would be... To be fair to Steve Baxhaw, he could have done both. He would have been swinging up there.

Anyway... Can we get on to the answer, please? So, Donna, I asked Steve about the sound on nature docks, and this is what he said. Hi, Richard and Marina. It's Steve Baxhaw here. Thank you so much for your question. I am a avid... avid listener to your podcast. So this is a really big topic actually in Natural History

filmmaking. There's been a couple of really big documentaries in recent years that have focused just on sound. But it hasn't always been that way. You know, conventional, what we would call blue chip natural history filmmaking, you'd have a lone, sometimes lonely camera operator who could be in a hide for months on end. And they'll classically have like a thousand mill massive lens filming wildlife from a distance could be a kilometer away. So just impossible to record sound and some of them wouldn't even bother taking a microphone at all. And then the sound would be put in later. So that would either come from library or it could be what's called Foley sound, which is where sounds are essentially fates up in a studio. I've been to one of those Foley studios and it's absolutely

bonkers. So they'd be recreating the crunching footsteps of an Arctic fox walking through snow or of a moose sneezing and essentially it's just some bloke in a dark room with a tray of gravel and the cardboard from an empty toilet roll. That though isn't done anymore so now we might use a parabolic mic that's essentially like a satellite dish around a gun mic and they're super super directional so you point them at a distant animal and you can hear them and what they're doing the downside is they are so sensitive they pick up everything so I was trying to a parabolic to record the whee's honk of a hippo, one of the sounds of Africa, it kind of goes like that. And essentially all we got was two hours of wet, soggy hippo flatulents. Completely

unusable, not surprisingly, because it is so, so sensitive. So close up stuff, then you might put radio mics out closer things. So we put them inside dead carcasses to hear the cacophony of sound as vultures and hyenas scrabble over the spoils. Seriously, it would put you off your tea. And then there are legendary soundies like Chris Watson, Gary Moore, Mark Roberts, who've made it their life's work to pick up wild sounds for real. And they might use tiny microphones in situ. So, for example, putting them underneath the leaf that a column of leaf cuner ants is about to walk over

and the leaf almost gets turned into a tiny drum so you can hear their miniature footsteps. Mike's can be pitched up high or low, so you can get the infrasound bellows of mating alligators or the ultrasound squeaks of bats on the wing. And some of this has led to new discoveries in nature, especially underwater, where we started realizing that, for example, the fish are talking to each other and sometimes to you. So one of my favorite bits in recent years in my job, I was doing a piece of camera underwater about clownfish, the famous Nemo fish, and one of them swam out of its anemone home right up to my mask and gave me a right telling off. It was a kind of a

which was, you know, essentially go away and leave my home alone. And because we had this new bit of tech, we recorded the whole thing, this conversation between a naturalist and a fish, all possible with a little bit of snazzy filming kit. Oh my God. I mean, that raises the bar for every other country. ever doesn't it? Steve. Steve, I love you. Is there nothing you can't do? I literally already loved you, but I love you even more now. Steve Batchel being told off by clamfish. Okay, I'm done. I'm done. Honestly, I thought Ben Shepard was great last week telling us about the tipping point machine. But that is, I mean, that's, very different answers.

That is, that is bar raising. Wow. That was absolutely fascinating. Yeah. Oh my God, I need to go home and watch a document. I need to actually find the clamfish footage immediately. Yeah, clownfish talking to Steve. Yeah, not talking to. Give him a dressing down. Giving him dressing down. Donna, thank you for your question. Who knew that it would elicit

such a terrific answer? He also does an amazing podcast, Steve. He's got a nature podcast called That's Just Wild, which I would strongly recommend. Steve, if any of your listeners have a question that Marina and I could help with, we'd be very, very happy to.

You know, I'm pretty good on the big cats. You're not bad on arachnids. So, yeah, anything they need to know, you just ask us, we owe you one. Thanks so much, Steve. Right, shall we go to an advert? Yes, shall we? This episode is brought to you by Sky,

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Glamour, genius and portrayal played out on the coast. The Aris Affair begins 16th October on Sky. Welcome back, everybody. Marina. Marcus Dale has a question for you. Marcus says after watching the Ryder Cup, I need you both to lift the velvet curtain on how golf is broadcast on TV. How do they time all the pairings, all teeing off at the same time?

How do the camera operators follow such a tiny white ball? Is watching in real life worse than on screen? Ah, okay. This is very good. I've got a lot on this. Okay, let's deal with the ball first. It is very small, but they've got high-speed cameras that can do the equivalent of several hundred, several thousand frames per second sometimes. because when the ball's coming off the tea it can be going over 100 miles an hour

they also have these telephoto lenses that have image stabilisation and they now have this tracking technology which you know like Shotlink or Trackman or whatever it is which has sort of radar on optical sensors so that when you watch the trajectory it's kind of you'll see it

overlaid over the picture anyway your understanding of the game is so much better when you're watching it at home on TV but obviously when you're there you get the atmosphere even if that atmosphere is some people throwing some drinks in someone's hair and just I mean obviously that was amazingly ungolfy I have to say golf it is a fun thing to go and see for a couple of days the rider cup did not look like a fun thing to go and see that I'd definitely rather watch

on TV yeah yeah it just obviously that the whole lot of that was just a poorly but if you are going to a golf tournament or and then I think if you're a spectator you have to say okay we are going to do three things all day and so you say okay well We'll see everyone sort of tee off on the first or the second, which is, so you've kind of got that. And then you'll say, let's find a good spot somewhere near the middle towards, middle two-end-ish. So maybe, I don't know, ninth or tenth or whatever.

It's good if you get a par three because then you can see it all. And it's quite, sometimes you can be sitting on a bank and you can just sit by the green of a par three for not a couple of hours and just see everyone. Yes. But it's good. You know what's happening. You know what's happening. Yeah. I mean, I can't, but I know, I know what you mean.

No, but you know what I mean. And then at the right moment, you want to make a break for the 17th or 18th. The 17th at this rider, the rider cup we just had, was great because it was a par three. Obviously, so much happened on the 18th. This last one, I've heard from people who covered it. It was an absolute nightmare because there were so many people inside the ropes, all the entourages, all the vice captains. It was much more than they've ever had to deal with.

So I think that was very, very difficult in terms of covering it. And, you know, you are between ropes. and being sort of herded around quite a lot. And so in terms of the directing of it, you've got the people who come out and do it. And my husband actually, one of his first jobs when he left university was working for transit world sport.

And, you know, he was in the buggy with a cameraman and a sound guy. Oh, that's fun. But there is someone who fully understands and can anticipate things about the whole golf tournament because they're watching it on the TVs. So you're getting it in your headphones, right, you know, go up to the 12th because Faldo's imploding or whatever it is.

That's a good reference. Well, that was the era of when it was. Someone watching TV is understanding it best. The only difference with all of this is, of course, at the Masters, which I particularly hate Augusta National Club, because, okay, why you're not allowed to see, remember, you're not allowed to see the score on the screen when you're watching the Master.

Watch any golf tournament and then watch the Masters, and you'll be like, sorry, what's going on? What's the score? Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm not allowed to see it because the footage is controlled by Augusta National Club. for what reason? For me two reasons. Power, because they can. They can. And two, they just probably just hate the fans.

Probably hate the fans in some really kind of incoate way. But you're not allowed to see the score at the Masters for most of the time. Every now and then I'll flash it out like it's a present to you. Oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you so much. Letting me in my hovel at home watch this. The whole of that tournament is a sort of real power game and whatever, and I find it absolutely ridiculous. That is a tournament where perhaps it's,

better to be on site. I think 100% my friend was once rang me and said oh my God I'm in the clubhouse right now there are literally

only two black people here me and Condoleez arise I mean it's yeah yeah yeah it's a thing can I say atmosphere Richard atmosphere yeah

there's a lot of atmosphere Augusta always has been it's a bucket list thing but it has a very rarefied atmosphere but a day out of the golf is nice but funnily enough

the Ryder Cup is slightly easier as a director than most other golf tournaments It's because there are, you know, on the first two days, you know, there's four pairs playing at any given time. Usually someone's on the tea, someone's on the green, someone's spotting all of those things. If you watch any of the big majors or anything, there are, you know, you've got first couple of days, you've got 100 people playing. And, you know, the last couple of days fewer. And which is why you're often, you're watching something and you hear a cheer from somewhere else on the course.

And then you then you then you cut to that to someone doing a party. You go, well, I think I know what happens here because I just heard an enormous cheer. Yeah, I just made a massive cheer. But essentially, you can't cover everything all the time. that sport because there are three or four things happening that were important at all time but that's why I like watching golf because you know that's what happens but right with rider cup is slightly easier but on that last day when you had those 12 games going what 11 games going off at the same time that's that's what makes it such an exciting sport is because there is always because

11 of those games are incredibly important and almost at all times someone has got a puck to win or tie the whole I mean the directing of it is brilliant it is so anticipatory and it's constant having to a really quite important decision away you're going to be and so absolutely fuck the coverage was great there was one part where you're just like oh my god who is that inside the ropes

that's not just like right in front of the camera like great I've missed the part and that okay fine and you've got that amazing iconic thing in the Rider Cup as well of red for America for Europe so you can literally just look at the bottom of the screen and see instantly what the state of players and that's a great thing to have so I think it's off to everyone who put together

the Rider Cup in what I imagine were trying circumstances. Richard, a question for you from Goulder. From Vera Wang. Not that one. Not that, from Goulder. Golder asks, fan fiction is in no way a new phenomenon. So would Richard receive any cash from a published Thursday murder club fan fiction?

It's an interesting time to ask that question. Because funnily enough, there's a book came out last week, which was massive, sold 50,000 copies in its first week, which is called Alchemized. And it's essentially it's, It started off as Alchemized, written by someone called Sen Lin-U, not actually their name. It's a pen name. Anyway, this starts off as Alchemized was Harry Potter fan fiction.

Yeah. It was a sort of Draco Hermione fan fiction, Draymione, and then it weaved in. The original book I think was called Manacled, and it was Draco and Amione. It weaved in lots of Handmaid's Tale stuff as well. and it went huge online. People went absolutely crazy for it. I've not read it, but I assume it's very well written

because there's a lot of stuff out there and for this to have risen to the top, I'm guessing it's good. But huge around the world, it's come out, as I say, as alchemised. So the interesting thing for a Golders question is it was enormously popular this thing, but it absolutely was based on Draco, Hermione,

based on Margaret Edwards, the Handmaid's Tale. And in order for it to be published, every single one of those references, had to be taken out so the whole thing had to be rewritten and those kind of universes had to be expunged and new universes and slightly new law had to be put in its place but it doesn't seem to have affected the popularity of the thing so from manacled to two alchemised got a seven-figure movie deal

instantly straight straight out of the market so sold 50,000 hardbacks in the UK last week it's done very done very well in the states as well So it's an enormously profitable thing to do. But yes, legally, you're not able to publish that traditionally in the JK Rowling universe or in the Margaret Atwood universe. You have to do a different version of it. So this author absolutely gained popularity through writing fan fiction, but then as rewritten it in order to monetize that in a different way. And the same thing happened with El James, so 50 Shays of Gray, which was enormous.

And that was Twilight fan fiction, really. That's what it started as. But you wouldn't necessarily know that from the final version, from the 50 Shays. It becomes something different because you do have to hide your workings. So I think most authors are comfortable with there being fan fiction. I mean, there's always been things based on stuff, you know, like Bible stories or the million kind of Greek myths that are retold. But this really is someone's IP. You know, it's really someone has created these characters.

And it's great that people love them. want to do something with them but when it gets to the point that someone is suddenly going to get a $2 million pound movie deal out of it if you were JK rolling you might go

I wonder if maybe some of that might be because those are my characters so you have to rewrite it but this seems to work for everyone to do that so in terms of if there were

Thursday Murder Club fan fiction it's you're very comfortable with people exploring that world that's nice it's something you want and you know having their own version of it in their mind. The second someone's making money from it, I guess there's

copyright issues. I mean, not as big copyright issues as all the massive tech companies scraping every single book and putting it into their large language models, which is genuine theft. At least this is people who like what you're doing and want to add. Is there a slash fiction version where I get together with Bogdan? I mean, has someone written that? I'm just saying if someone wrote that, it would read it. Yes, if someone has written that. It's weird. Then I would read it.

I was reading that from a herina-mide. So, yeah, it's lovely that stuff does inspire people. And it's an incredible way for young writers. Just, you know, the thing about writing, as you know, there's only two rules, which is read lots and write lots. That's all you can do. And if you are doing fan fiction, you're doing both of those things. Because you're reading something that you love, you're taking it in,

and then you're writing a lot. And by the time you've done five years worth of fan fiction, If you are a good writer Remove your stabilisers Yeah Then your writing has become good And you can see instantly that people like it And that's the time where you go

Oh okay I trust myself to do my version of this And then I'll let other people do Fanfiction of... Well it's like copying drawings by artists Or paintings of artists you love It's a fantastic way to learn lots of things Yeah

And then you do you start going But what do I actually think What is that I would do And by that time you've learnt all these building blocks You've learned all these skills So I think fan fiction is a wonderful thing and the amount of people who've come from absolute obscurity to making an awful lot of money via the route,

fan fiction, self-public fiction, all of these things. It's, there's more and more and more and more. And the story of publishing now is that that's the route through. That's where people are coming from. But yeah, so Alchemise out last week, been absolutely huge. It is fan fiction. Hasn't yet it sold as many as 50 shades of grey, but almost nothing ever in the history.

publishing has, but they both come from the same place, and that feels like a really positive thing. As you know, this week we're doing something a little bit different, which our bonus episode came last night. It came right after the first episode of Traitors, so it's come slightly in a different order this week. And also, it's free. Yeah, and it's free. It is. So dive in, but only once you've watched episode one of Traitors. Please, please do not listen until you have, unless you're not going to watch Traitors. You just want to hear people talk about a show you, you haven't and I'm not going to watch. You must do what you wish.

But, yeah, it was a lot of fun to record. So I hope you enjoyed it. But for everyone else, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. This episode. Skyglass is the new television from Sky, the kind that makes your old Teddy feel like a dress rehearsal. This is the big screen premiere right there in your living room. Because it's not just about pixels and settings, it's about the experience.

Skyglass has auto-adjust, which cleverly adapts to whatever you're watching, and the built-in Dolby sound makes dialogue sharper, footsteps nearer, storms louder. Take the secret world of sound on Skynature. Frogs croak like brass sections, bats click like castanets, and even the hush between feels designed for surroundings. sound. It's less like nature recorded, more like nature remixed. And then there's David Attenborough, his voice warmer than central heating, turning baby Kamens and prowling hyenas into Shakespearean characters. That's when you realize Skyglass doesn't

just show TV. It was built to collaborate with it, the unsung producer behind every great scene. Visit sky.com requires relevant SkyTV subscriptions. Broadband recommended minimum speed, 30 megabits per second. 18 plus, UK, Channel Islands and Isle of man only.