The Rest Is Entertainment - Kayne, Katseye & Jamiroquai's Hat

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

Which musician always books a plane seat for his hat? Does a horror final girl always have to be brunette? Could Kanye perform in North Korea? Marina Hyde and Richard Osman answer your questions on book releases, KATSEYE and horror heroines. The Rest is Entertainment is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain's most awarded energy supplier. Sponsored by Lloyds. Looking for extra value from your spending? You can bank on Lloyds to help your money go further. Search Lloyds Rewards in your app. Summer sale is here: get an annual membership for a third off with code SUMMER26. That's ad-free listening, every bonus episode, and full access to our exclusive members' series. Sale ends August 31st, so grab it before summer's over. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com. For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Emma Jackson Exec Producer: Ami Bennett Filmed at www.westdigitalstudios.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, show business is full of people who start out as one thing, but then take on some completely new role that completely eclipses it. And before we get on to how Octopus Energy has done that, a few examples. There are people who start out, you know, bands as singers, as actors. A good example would be Victoria Beckham. She started off in a band, Richard.

She was in a band called The Spice Girls. You're going to tell me next to David Beckham used to play football before he became an advertising guy. They have earned far more from their second careers, these businesses they've built up, than they ever did in their first ones. So the idea, she's a singer that gets her through the door, gets her known, the culture knows who she is,

she then thinks, I'm going to see if I can do something else, and she has the audience, who if she does it well, goes along with her. But do you know what it reminds me of a lot? Tell me. It reminds me of Octopus Energy, because Octopus Energy has also outgrown its own introduction. It's the UK's largest energy supplier, but is now also one of the country's biggest installers of heat pump,

solar panels and batteries. The list even reaches the driveway with a major electric car leasing business as well. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restis Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hi, everybody.

Shall we start? Because I just think it's a subject that people will be interested in with this question from Sam. Kanye West is just announced a tour of Russia. are American and British musicians blocked from performing in any countries by governments? Yes, okay, this is interesting. It's not so much at all.

He's doing two dates in St. Petersburg at the Gazprom Arena. It's interesting this angle that you've asked about, because we know about people being denied visas to perform, and we've had various rappers that we've tried to keep out or whatever, but it can work both ways. I spoke to someone who knows all about sanctions about this. Who knows about sanctions? That's a good job. In this day and age?

Yeah. In time, right? My God, he's busy. London's full of people who help people with sanctions. There's nothing to say he can't perform, but you might have lots of regulations and sanctions about transactions and payments and dealings with various sanctioned governments.

So Russia doesn't amount to a blanket ban, okay? Americans can do business in Russia, but sanctions prohibit various categories of services and dealings. Performing isn't one of the categories that it prohibits. But if any of the arrangements that Kanya West makes involve sanctioned Russian entities of any type, he could get into massive legal complications.

It doesn't sound like the sort of thing Kanyer would do. He's not someone to seek out trouble. Yeah, I know. He's just trying to have a low-key tour to Russia. So say the promoter agrees to pay him $5 million or whatever it is, Russian origin money itself is not prohibited. But if the promoter is sanctioned or any, any other aspect of the whole supply chain of these concerts is owned by blocked persons,

then you can't transact with them. And your payment can't go through a block Russian bank at any stage in the chain. It feels like there'd be quite easy ways around that. It feels like there would be, yes, but actually making sort of separate entities, people do try to do that all the time and kind of offshore it in different ways, and it's actually quite difficult. But the sanctions guys are onto that. There'll be people to help you with that.

But actually, it's interesting, inside Russia there's been quite, I was looking into it. There's been quite a lot of pressure to call off these concerts because he has obviously made pro-Nazi comments in the past. They're not a great fan of the Nazis for obvious reasons. And the anti-semitic comments, all of those things. But there are some places in what you're asking about

where is actually banned. Cuba, because of the Cuba embargo, you cannot perform there. You can record an album there, perhaps. I'm just thinking of something you could do if you've got special permissions, and I don't know what you'd have to say. There are other countries like North Korea

where all travel is advice, anything other than essential travel. So I think if you decided to go and perform a concert there and then, you know, became suddenly interned or whatever, it's not like you won't get consular support, but you're not everyone's number one priority. Yeah, if like suddenly Shed Severn are in a prison in Pyongyang, you're like, guys, you kind of bought that up on yourself?

Yeah. Iran is obviously also very difficult and Syria is also very difficult. I don't hear of any musicians who want to go to Iran right now. Yeah. But, you know, I guess there's always one, and it will probably be Kanye. Yeah. Yeah, you're not, no one's sort of putting out their tour dates and people are going, Iran? Yeah.

How about Iran? Oh, I see you're not going to Iran again. Yeah. It's actually really cheap to go. It's cheaper to fly there, you know, like there people always say to you. I see, I see you're playing in Wolverhampton, but not Iran. Yeah. Thanks, guys.

So there are these rules and there are all these different categories, and it's mainly always about payments. That's how they try and get you. So you can perform, but it's very difficult to find someone who can pay you enough to perform whose money wouldn't in some way come under some sort of sanction. In the chain. If nobody in the chain has got any form of sanction, then you can take the money in Rome. Yeah, and it's quite hard to have enough money to book Kanye without at some point having got yourself on that list. Yeah, I mean, we'll see if they go ahead.

But there is, as I said, there's a lot of pushback in Russia against it as well. Okay, this is not totally related, but it feels like it follows on. Liz says, hi, hi, Liz, watching the many musical acts at the BBC proms, I'm led to wonder how an orchestra ships its musicians and its instruments to far away destinations. I've had enough musical training to know that many of their instruments are worth thousands or even millions, and some are so large they couldn't be easily loaded onto a commercial flight. How does this work? In a number of different ways, often if I have had this situation once myself, where I sat very near someone who was sat next to a cello, if you have an instrument that is incredibly valuable, you can book it a seat,

and therefore you have it under control the whole time it is right next to you. You can make it, so it doesn't have to go in the hold, it doesn't have to go through any kind of baggage system at the airport. So if you've got an instrument that is that valuable, you can have it next to you want. My daughter's to take so electric guitar,

we just shove it in the overhead. It's not... In the overhead? Yeah, it's not... It's a fender, but it's not expensive. Yeah, it's a fender, but it's not... I know, but it's long. But it's quite long to go in the overhead.

Oh no, it goes in every time. Does it? She's been taking her guitar since she was tiny everywhere she goes. Okay, but is it a full-size guitar? Is it now? I think it might be nearly the electric. That feels like it's too long for an overhead. It's fine.

Yeah. It goes in every time. By the way, one of my greatest tricks is I can open the overhead without getting off out of my seat. Yeah, on trains or planes. I can open it, I can put stuff up there and take stuff down and I can close it again without ever leaving my seat. That is so incredibly classy. Thank you. Thank you.

I love knowing that. Yeah, it's quite something. We need to fly somewhere. Okay, but carry on. Let's see that. And I'll take your daughter's guitar with me. So, yeah, if you've got a very, very expensive thing like that, you can have it yourself. Modern flight case technology is so insanely good now.

You would trust, you know, your oboes, your clarinets, your things like that, a violin, you can put it. So bands, for example, will absolutely put very expensive guitars and bases, you know, into flight cases because the technology is so. so crazy. So the damage is not something that worries them. Things getting lost worries them. Every single flight case has what's called an RFID, which is a radio frequency ID chip on them. So if they do get lost, you know exactly where they are. If they get stolen, you know exactly where they are. If you're a pianist, for example, and it's very, very, you can't put a piano on a plane. You don't really want to put it on a boat either. So most pianists actually will, whatever place they are in, will just find a piano from the same maker.

because they trust the maker enough that they will go to somewhere. They will obviously get there a few days early and work with it, but they'll get a piano from the same maker. But bands, most of their stuff, they can hire wherever they are. So if you've got, you know, you stick your guitars, you know, your drums. Well, they can all go in flight cases and they can be carried in a commercial hold. But anything you can't take over, you can hire abroad. There's a huge industry in equipment hire for classical musicians

and for bands and things like that. And when you're in a country, you would usually, again, use the air because vans get stolen, and that's the thing that, you know, worries you the most. So taking it over there, if it's super expensive and it can fit in the seat, you'll put it in a seat. If it's super expensive and can't fit in the seat, you'll have to have a different version of it.

If it is small enough to go in a flight case, it will go in a flight case. And other things that I think are interesting in terms of when, certainly when bands tour is they were, often have two sets of everything. Certainly, you know, the backdrop and the lights and all that kind of stuff because you want to be setting up two vineyards at once. And it is, it is cheaper to have a two lots of everything than it is to only play one show every two days. But, you know, the basic answer really is anything that can go in a hold, anything that is sort of small

enough to go in a hold, will go in a hold because the technology is so crazily good. You know, nothing ever gets broken. Everything is protected from being stolen. If you've got a half a million pound cello, you can sit next to it. Jamiroquai books a seat for his hat. Oh, my God. I think that's a publicity thing. I think it's a publicity thing. But he was the thing as always, because his hat is such a big deal for him.

He sits next to his hat. Basically, there are huge industries around transporting instruments around the world and also huge industries around hiring out instruments to any visiting orchestras or listening bands or things like that. But you can, if you want to, you will see it occasionally sit next to your instrument and put its seatbelt around it and just, you know, pat it every now and again when you're on a transatlantic flight. Okay, now, following Sam and Liz, Andy says,

you often hear movie fans talking about the final girl. How did this movie trope start and why do you think it's become such a popular plot device, the final girl? Right, yes, in the film I recommended on Tuesday's episode, Teenage, Sex and Death at Camp Myasma. Gillian Anderson is the sort of woman who was the original final girl in an original movie. Anyway, right, the final girl is something from slasher movies. It was coined by Carol Clover who writes film criticism, and she wrote a book called Men, Women and Chainsawes, Gender in the Modern Horror Film,

which I have at home, it's very good. Of course you do. But the final girl, it's a trope from slasher movies. It's basically the last person alive who ends up confronting the killer. So if you think of, like, Jamie Lee Curtis in Halloween, and it's interesting, they don't have to be brunette. and in a nighty, but it does help. It's almost always a woman, obviously it's final girl,

but men are killed way more in horror movies. Like sometimes people call them the expendable gender. There's something quite, I've got to say, there's something quite virginal about this girl. Yeah. Because sex in these things, in horror movies, particularly often symbolizes death, and blondes often symbolize kind of licentiousness.

If there's like a hot cheerleader, okay, it's tickets for her. She's going, right? You know that. If you're a blonde woman or any sort of man, And you're like, hey, let's drink and do drugs at this party, okay? I'm telling you, you're going to, you are going to get slashed, okay? So quite straight-laced to some degree. A bit of a sort of Mary Sue, you know, she's almost quite perfect.

But we see the plot through her, and that's what Carol Glover writes about in this book a lot. Actually, people used to think, oh, it's really sexist, it's always the whatever, but it's always, I don't know, a girl in an idea or whatever. But actually what happens is that through those final girls, the movie is resolved, and you see the kind of final scenes sort of playing out. through them and they tend to be obviously victorious. The reason it's sort of so popular is because like all of these things, they're developed, once it becomes a trope,

it becomes something that you can ironise or you can make it knowing. And as I said, that movie is like so knowing about the final girl and about the relationship between sex and death in horror movies and all this sort of stuff. So, yes, it's very, very appealing. And also some of the best horror movies just have this thing running through them. And I think it's kind of interesting. Yeah, it's horror movies now can absolutely, They've got such a kind of a history to play off.

It's like in some ways it's like crime fiction, there's lots of ways where he goes, we know all the things we have read before. We know that all the readers have read them before, and so you can have fun with them because you know the expectation as soon that someone turns up on screen. And for a screenwriter or for a novelist, that's an incredibly fun thing to play with.

Yeah, it started with things like scream and whatever, where it became so sort of ironic and meta. And now, as I say, so often, horror is just this unbelievable, amazing genre where incredible young filmmakers and different people are talking about every subject under the sun. And it's not really about horror. It's about other things. It's about whatever. And the one I was talking about is like about female sexual satisfaction.

It's so interesting. And all the interesting things, not all of them, but most of the interesting things I think are happening in horror. So all of these tropes kind of help. But we all understand them. It's become a very readable language. It's that weird thing that more rules and tropes there are actually the more creative freedom you have because you've got all of these toys to play. with. You're so right. It's just like sort of crime fiction, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. Before we go to a break, we have a bonus episode for all of our members. We're doing the history of James Bond at the moment, and this week's one is about the finding of Sean Connery, which is a great, great story. If you want to sign up to be a member, it's atrestis Entertainment.com, you can sign up there, ad-free listening and all that sort of stuff. And talking of ads, let's have some now. This episode is brought to you by Lloyd's rewards. Now, a big mistake that people make is leaving the cinema as soon as the credits roll because there might be a bonus scene

right at the end. There might be one of my favourite things in the middle. Yeah, you never know. In Marvel ones, there used to be a mid-credit scene and then there would be an end-credit scene. I remember the first one I really remember, well, too, I remember Ferris Bueller's Day Off where he tells you to go home at the end,

but also smoking the bandit with Bert Reynolds where they would do bloopers. It just feels like a secret little glimpse into a different world. And it doesn't quite have to be over. Yeah, exactly. And it's just a lovely little added bonus. You've done everything, you've made your show, right, you've given everyone everything. It's just a lovely little extra.

Which is also the idea behind Lloyd's rewards, extra value appearing inside something you were already doing anyway, your daily banking. From shopping to streaming, you can bank on Lloyds to help your money go further. It's rewards like this that make 14 million people bank on Lloyds. Search Lloyd's rewards in your app. Eligibility criteria, terms and conditions apply, retailer offers and cashback amounts may vary. 18 plus. Welcome back, everybody. We begin with a question about book publication.

Emma Wright says, I've recently been looking at upcoming book releases on Waterston's website. Other retailers are available. And notice most books are released on a Tuesday. Is there a reason for this? Well, most books, funnily enough, there will be certain things that come out on Tuesday, which we'll talk about. So I can work out probably which books Emma is looking at. Most books come out on Thursday in the UK.

In the US, they come out on a Tuesday. In the UK, they come out on a Thursday. And it's for an incredibly prosaic reason. It's not sort of, oh, this is where to get the optimum charts in or something like that. It's because the supermarkets change their book stock every second Thursday. So it has just become this thing where, you know, the bigger books which are sold and the supermarkets come out on Thursday, so everything comes out on a Thursday. And for example, you have this thing called Super Thursday every year, which is when all these sort of,

of books come out. And this year it's September the 10th when I'm out up against Jamie Oliver and Julia Donaldson. Okay. Mine is on September the 24th, which is close. Which is two weeks later because they change their stocks every two weeks. And so it's every second Thursday is when

all the big books come out. You get some that come out in between and it's easier to get in the charts if you come out on one of those in between weeks. But the big releases tend to be every second Thursday. Now what Emma has seen is in America, everything comes out on a Tuesday. for very, very similar reasons.

And when you get books like, you know, for example, you know, Rebecca Yaros or Sarah J. Mas, these big kind of romantic-y things that launch worldwide. Same happened with Dan Brown last year. If they come out on a Tuesday in the US, then sometimes they will also demand they come out on a Tuesday in the UK. Because it's, you know, they cross borders. So if something comes out on a Tuesday, it's usually because it's by a big American author. and they want to synchronise the release of a book worldwide, just so people can't read it in America two days before they can read it in the UK

because there's all sorts of issues. You know, and you know, you don't want people to be going to the US to buy, having the books sent over from the US, you know, British bookstores want to be able to get those sales as well. So they'll send it on a Tuesday. But no, most books are on a Thursday. I say, mine, September the 10th, yours is September the 24th,

unless it's a huge US author, in which case they will come out on a Tuesday because they come out on a Tuesday in the US. Mine, what I tend to do in America is mine will come out on the following Tuesday in America. Funnily enough, Australia are getting my book a bit early this year for lots of technical reasons, but they're getting it a few days earlier. Wow. They're getting the earliest of all, so lucky Australia.

But yeah, Thursdays, and it's to do with that's when the supermarkets re-up their booklists every second. Thursday. Now this next question is brought to you by Lloyd's Bank. Sam at Lloyd's Bank, who asked the question, which TV or movie home makes you think, how did they afford that? Okay, well, almost pretty much all of them. Yeah. The 90s is a particularly rich time for this. Obviously, one of the most iconic is Carrie Bradshaw's Sex and the City apartment. She pays $750 rent, supposedly. Well, in 1997 to 98, the

median rent for anyone in her postcode was way over double that. And she's a journalist, right? Yeah. And journalists particularly get upset if journalists live in incredible houses. She seems to write one faintly, indifferent column or wait, but whatever, I mean, you're not. Whereas you do too. Right. There's a thing in New York.

And it's the same with friends, isn't it, where they have that apartment. They could, I mean, literally no one there can really afford the apartment they're in. But in New York, they have a thing which is rent control, which is there are certain situations where you can get a really nice apartment for much less. money that you would ordinarily get it. And they really hammer that one home. We all, we understand from the beginning that in Friends, they live in rent-controlled apartments. And so you don't really have to question it. Yeah, I think it's in Monica's grandmother's name or something. So you can make, you can sort of make more of an ironic joke about it as the thing

goes on. In Notting Hill, to bring it back to our own own shores, the Hugh Grant character, William Thacker, he has a loss-making bookshop. And apparently he bought it with his ex-wife, so I'm not quite sure why she hasn't got it, but she leaves him. And it was actually Richard Curtis's front door, that particular front door. I mean, that's crazy to do that. Yeah. Because suddenly there were a tourist and frankly your front door when you want to go to spa. Exactly.

He's written blackout and that's why he's got that house. Yes. The Hugh Grant character hasn't. I always think with Notting Hill, though, my assumption is always when it, because you go around Notting Hill now, there are shops there. You think, I'm so sorry, how are you affording the rent on this? Because your shop doesn't really sell anything. Some lovely little things.

Yeah, I just just just. assume that there's family money behind all of those people. There are some films. There's, I think there's a match point where Scarlett Johansson has an amazing flat in London and she's a waitress and you're just like, no, this is genuinely, they're a film, like, they usually find a way to kind of go, oh, by the way, this house is much nicer than it should be because of X, Y, Z. But in that, you're like, you're literally just doing, you've got this beautiful floor to ceiling windows and it's so beautifully furnished and you don't earn any money at all and there is no backstory telling us that you earn a load of money. People used to say this about the home alone

family and say it or they wouldn't live in that house. But it's like the Home Alone family, the McAllister's are incredibly rich. They're taking the entire family over Christmas holidays to go to Paris. So they've got a lot of money. And it's also America. I don't, you know, when people live in America, I don't know. I don't know what people can afford in America. No, I just know that if you're taking 15 people to Paris on commercial fights over Christmas, it's going to be very expensive. Yeah, you've got a little bit of money. But the reason that people do, The reason that films do it is, firstly, you need a room to look expansive because you've got a film in it. And so, you know, lots of these things are sets.

You have to build them quite big because there will be said you need to walk from A to B to C and you need to cameras to go around you. They also do need to feel a bit aspirational. You don't really, if we really, really showed those first flats that we lived in, people would like walk out of the cinema. Oh, please, if I'm watching a Nicole Kimmer drama and she's got a rubbish kitchen, it's off. Yeah. It's off. Yeah.

Now, the reason this question has come from Lloyd's is because we understand that, fiction you can choose the perfect home. In real life, things can be a little bit different and you do need some help. Yeah, but with the Lloyd's 5K deposit mortgage, eligible first-time buyers may be able to buy a home with a deposit of £5,000. The average first-time buyer deposit was last at that level in 1996. Search Lloyd's 5K deposit to find out more. Subject to status, you could lose your home if you don't keep up your mortgage repayments. Conditions apply. 1996 average first-time buyer deposit based on O&S data. Marina, a question for you from Sophie.

She's talking about the band Katzai. She says Katzai seemed to be the next big global thing when they debuted in 2024 with BTS's label, Hive behind them. Now, only two years down the line, their two members down and their target audience seemingly changes by the day, and they still have no real signature sound.

Is the Katzai curse we're seeing? Now the perfect example of what happens when you try to cater to everyone and follow the trend algorithm. I wouldn't want to be Katzai right about now. Oh my God, I end up having to talk about Katsai for quite a lot of each day at the moment. Basically, the background to Katsai is three years ago they were found. They had six members.

They did a Netflix show. There were like 100,000 contestants. They sort of whittled down. And they ended up choosing these six girls, Sophia, Laura, Manon, Daniela, Megan and Junce. And it's not actually a pure K-pop thing because they come from quite diverse countries. It's a sort of joint venture between high, which is the big, big K-pop labels. That's the one run by that guy, Chairman Bang, who once again I'd like to reiterate,

I would very happily read a very deep dive on him. Chairman Bang? Chairman Bang, yeah. So what they were going to have was the sort of brutal boot camp, K-pop bit, and then US production and the wider market and all of that. They're racially diverse. They came from lots of different countries, and there was a big fashion element to them.

And they got all these sort of prestige, avant-garde. hired as people who were involved in different sort of fashion companies. So they were, you're right to say that they were, obviously the Netflix thing really helped. They were very, very successful. They did a Gap advert that was so absolutely massive. It's by far the biggest Gap advert of all time. It's a Gap Denem advert, Kats did it. It's by far the biggest Gap advert of all time.

It led to sort of double-digit growth in the denim category. They had loads of magazine covers. They've got deals. It's really interesting. You kind of measure lots of this. stuff. Like, it's so much a modern celebrity, it's really interesting. Like how many brand deals they have.

So much of it is like what campaigns they have. And Cats I Do, Pandora, the charm bracelets, they did a lush campaign. They even by Lush's standards was absolutely massive. But what they have got, as you say, is a real problem with instability amongst membership. They've got, Manon is on hiatus.

Now she is what they call the visual of the group, which they can... Yeah, K-pop have these kind of stock types. And the visual is the kind of fashion leader or whatever. She was the first sort of black artist in one of these bands

and it's really difficult. So she's on hiatus and she's been on hiatus a long time. All sorts of things have gone wrong in some ways. You know, it's incredibly controlling the world of, if we think our boy bands

and girl bands are controlling. It's very, very controlling. There was some sort of social media, private accounts went public. There were photos of them with acquaintances. That loss of control that is so marks

K-pop things, there has been a sort of loss of control. they also change their music style. Now, Sophia is on hiatus for health and well-being. I think it's really difficult. That's Sophia from the band, not Sophie the question writer. No. No.

I think that it's very, very difficult, and they were such a huge thing. As you can see, the way it goes hand in glove with these big brand campaigns and whatever, that's been very successful. But there has never been so much pressure and so many attempts to kind of have these parisocial relationships and find out what they're really up to. And I've talked about it before, and I've called it like open source intelligence. The way people look on Weaver's and all these big K-pop things,

it's very, very difficult. And it's really bad that two girls are off. And in the old days, they were able to control this and say, oh, you know, they've just having a rest. And now fan suspicion is like a fever pitch all the time. Don't name your band after a cat if you want them to be controllable. And in the old days, people would ignore the toll on their idols. I suppose, because it was just shut down and it was controlled much better.

It's very, very difficult now for people not to find out about their private accounts, to see pictures them with other people. And they've all been folded into these shows about finding bands. I don't know. I would say that cats I still have, and it's ridiculous that we measure their success by this, they still have a lot of those brand deals in place. They've just had a big, vogue story about them. I agree that changing the sound seems eccentric.

There's something about the drama of them, though, and the sort of sense that they are more uncontrollable than other K-pop artists that I think will keep people... Yes, their uncontrollability becomes their brand. I mean, in some good news for Katzai, it's interesting. We talked on Tuesday's episode about Mr. Brightside being the charts for 10 years and how things now stick around. And Katzai have had the completely different thing,

which is they had the chart career that people used to have, which is they have a huge fan. So the song charts at a certain place and then never goes any higher. And they've had that their entire career. They'd never had a single. They had never had a single that had ever gone higher than its initial chart position until this week. It's like every single song had gone in high and then disappeared. But Animal is the first song that went in at 16 and now it's number 12.

They've got two songs in the top 20. The album is doing well. So it might be they've suddenly found themselves in a position where people who are not just fans of Katzai are finding their music. I mean, it's a very small data point, but it's the first time they've ever had a song that's gone up. And they're still getting brand deals. But I do think that the things that people used to ignore, if like, you know, more than 30% of the group is off. Yes.

At any given time. There's something not quite right. But people love the drama. So I think there's something about that. So I don't think they've gone away yet. Okay. Watch this space. Watch this cat's eye.

I think that wraps us up for today. Lovely to talk to you, everyone. As always, lovely to talk to you, Marina, as always. See you next Tuesday, I guess. See you next Tuesday.