The Rest Is Entertainment - Leave Ariana Grande Alone

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Many of the reports around Wicked haven’t focused on the quality of the film, but once again on the appearance of one of its stars, Ariana Grande. Is the reporting on female appearance becoming more toxic than ever before? Will a TikTok Grandma win the battle for Christmas number 1? Richard takes us through the historical runners and riders. Our friends at More In Common carried out some polling based upon some previous show topics as promised. Does the UK think Jeremy Clarkson could be PM? What is Britain’s most loved Christmas song? And, most importantly which is the nation’s favourite Quality Street… Richard and Marina disagree. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club for ad free listening and access to bonus episodes: www.therestisentertainment.com Sign up to our newsletter: www.therestisentertainment.com Twitter: @‌restisents Instagram: @‌restisentertainment YouTube: @‌therestisentertainment Email: [e-mail] Producers: Neil Fearn + Joey McCarthy Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest Is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osmond. Good day to you, Marina. Hello Richard, did you do anything good last week? I played the Royal Albert Hall with my podcast, The Rest Is Entertainment. That was fun, wasn't it? Every time I actually think about it, I genuinely laugh out loud. I said it was a midwinter's night's dream. It was pure chaos and madness and fun. Pure magic. Thank you so much to everybody who came. My favourite bit was my Christmas

present to Marina was having her carried onto stage by Nitro from Gladiators at the start of the second half. The roof almost came off the Royal Albert Hall. Can I say it was insane. I can't believe that actually happened. I was on Nitro's shoulder for a minute plus. The Gladiators theme is quite, by the way, the band, the Sensation band, who are incredible, were playing the Gladiators theme at this moment. For me, it was one of the great moments of my life.

You know, for Nitro, he's won a number of World and Commonwealth golds. I would have said it was probably out there with most of those for him. Even better as well is when he said he had a, like he's got a hamstring tear or something, and you said,'t carry me and he said you weigh literally nothing. One of the nicest people of all time. A little bit behind the curtain stuff the Sensation band who as you say were unbelievable they played the theme from Gladiators they spent the first week learning how to play the

theme from Gladiator the film film, until the misunderstanding was uncovered. And they say, and then when Nitro comes on, they're thinking, oh, not the theme from Gladiator, the theme from Gladiators. I didn't know that that's absolutely hilarious. It would have had a very sort of somber, but majestic tone, but I think pure trash of the Gladiator scene was much better in the circus.

They can do it, so will we do it again? I don't know, we did love it, and thank you to everyone who came. It was an absolute Christmas ball. But who knows? We're not two of nature's performers. It's like childbirth, isn't it? Do you know what? I was thinking that at the time. Yeah. As I was sitting there with 5,000 people watching me, I was thinking this is so like childbirth. What are we talking about this week? We're going to talk about Ariana Grande and the huge focus on her appearance and size during the Wicked Press Tour and whether perhaps body shaming is back or if in fact it

never went away. We're going to talk about our good friends at More In Common, the polling company have done some amazing research on Christmas films and political attitudes. Like you know, what's the most popular Christmas film of Tory voters, of Labour voters, of reform voters. We'll learn all that sort of stuff. Everything Christmasy. They've even done which is the best Christmas chocolate. Which by the way I have used them. Yeah, I do too. They're also going to give us a definitive answer over who would win a general election between Martin Lewis and Jeremy Clarkson. We spoke about the other weeks.

Yes. And also going to talk about how a 79 year old grandmother and TikTok are absolutely reforming the race for Christmas number one in the US and the UK this year. We'll begin then with Ariana Grande. First of all we should say that the Wicked Press Tour has been a vibe. It's been Ariana and Cynthia Arriva going round and it's a juggernaut this thing. I don't know how many destinations it's had but they have honestly, not since Margot Robbie de Barbie has someone sort of just really gone out there and tried and sold a movie. But there's a very distinct energy to this one.

Much as I was, as I've previously discussed on this podcast with Lady Gaga's A Star is Born tour, it's got a real vibe. They sort of cry almost in every interview now. It's obviously very, very emotional. I don't know how they're going to do the whole thing all over again this time of year. I hope they're taking on fluids. Yeah, absolutely. I hope they do. And they're going to have to do it all over again when Wickerpot 2 comes out next year. It's like the London Marathon. They need to have stations where people are just holding

up cups of water for them. We're in Budapest and they just like to take one, knock it back. In one of these interviews last week, there's been a huge amount of focus on Ariana Grande's appearance and whether she is looking very sort of painfully thin. And someone asked her, one of the French journalists or YouTuber asked her how she felt about it.

And she became very emotional and said, I've been doing this in front of the public and kind of been a specimen in a Petri dish since I was 16 or 17., I've been doing this in front of the public and kind of been, you know, a specimen in a petri dish since I was 16 or 17. So I've heard it all, I've heard every version of it of what's wrong with me. Then you fix it, and then it's wrong for different reasons. It's very hard to protect yourself from this noise.

And it went on more than that. But I suppose what we're talking to, it's incredibly difficult as we know, and as everyone has said, being anyone in the public, by the way, and young men have their own kind of issues with this stuff too. So in some ways, and we'll get into this in more detail in a bit, but I wonder if it's a similar story to the paparazzi where things... Things we thought had gone away and they had not gone away.

They're absolutely still there and they're just as awful as they ever were. Or that there was a change. I think that's all the most heartbreaking thing in this case particularly. The 2000s were an absolute nadir for all this stuff and you lived in an era where there was a heat magazine, circle of shame in every part of women's bodies, tiny little bits of sweat, everything, cellulite, everything was kind of focused on. Then it got much better and so you have things like when the Britney documentary comes out people are like, oh my god that's so disgusting. This was lawless, how could it even happen?

What were we like back then? What were we like back then? I have to say, I think it's got worse now, and I'll get to why I think it's got worse now. This weight stuff has become much worse. One of the weird things was when I was thinking we were gonna talk about this, I thought, I just sort of remember writing about this ages ago,

and I found this article I wrote 21 years ago about this exact thing about women who are perhaps too thin or people think they're too thin and it's written about and how it's written about and I wrote it for the women's pages in the Guardian 21 years ago and I was like I'm looking all the names and it was Calista Flockhart, Laura Flynn Boyle, all of these people that names from back then but it was really just done in the same way, that same tone of like fake concern that the newspapers use. Last week in the mail, there was a headline, fragile, I'm doing the air quotes, Ariana Grande pushes ahead with Wicked Tour amid boyfriend Ethan Slater's concerns, again, the air quotes, for her health. Air quotes are the thing

that give you the sort of deniability that, you you're not actually stating it it's just a view there's there are quotes inside like he's told friends he's confused as to why everybody is so focused on this movie when Ariana clearly needs help let me tell you one thing he did not tell any friends that we've discussed before that in tabloid lots of tabloid stories when you say an onlooker said or a close friend said those people don't exist they are invented because it looks better than stories being pure narrative to have voices put in and also it's not the daily male themselves then saying look you know doesn't she look ill it's saying friends have said friends are friends have said that she looks ill, worried friends

it's the Donald Trump thing of a lot of people are saying I keep hearing that yeah and then saying the thing you want to say anyway. And yeah, fake concern is always the deadliest tone. I find that even if you're writing trying to do satire, if you're writing about politicians or something, you know, fears for whoever, you know, how did they really mean to say that sort of thing? It's much deadlier than saying, what an idiot and sort of shouting in an angry way. Yeah. And it's interesting because there's plenty of there are plenty of articles in plenty

of papers about you know, health and about body image and about body shaming and you know, there's a whole section of the industry that is writing that. But as you say, the showbiz and the general news pages do still seem to be just slipping back into that, the air quotes stuff. You just wonder how they feel about what they're doing at the moment, because we do know now, zero excuse now, you know what you're doing. Like as, because we do know now, zero excuse now, you know what you're doing. Like as you say, you can look back 20 years and you can see what happened and you can see how it affected people and you can see that you were taking advantage

of people and you know it was wrong. You know it for a fact. And if you're doing exactly the same thing now, it's hard because you no longer have deniability. You can no longer go, Oh no, I sort of thought, I sort of thought maybe it's okay to do because actually I am quite concerned about her and I think it is a shame what she's going through and you know, I'm worried and I worry about young women. You think, no, you are doing the same thing that we did before, you're doing exactly the same thing we did before and you know now. Yes, obviously I do agree with that although I have to say if you look amongst civilians, not journalists and not celebrities, people do say, oh, I'm worried taking my daughter to some extent to this movie.

I don't like to promote this sort of thing. And there is a sort of fine line. And this is a rather difficult conversation to have. And I'm not saying that's the case in this case at all. But in certain cases, where saying nothing in itself feels a form of dereliction. Obviously, there are ways of saying it. People are very impressionable. I mean, you know, there have been times when

someone like Greta Thunberg, who obviously suffered a really serious eating disorder before she came to the public eye, and her parents have really foregrounded that story and they talk about it a lot. But there have been times when I have seen, I've looked and felt, I worry, I wonder if this is totally healthy.

And I do mean that from a place of actual concern. And by the way, there are great articles about that. That's what I'm saying. There is an industry where we are writing about this intelligently now and compassionately and understanding the effect it has. And I just think it's very peculiar that the other side of it still exists, which is the sort of just sniggering behind closed doors side of it. Because actually we are as a society and journalism as an industry, we understand the issues now. We can't write about it, we can't talk about teenage girls, we can't talk about what it is that they are seeing and yet at the same time we have this, just the other side of the industry still seems to exist.

I wonder if we are as sophisticated as we think we are. You know that Ariana Grande has said herself that she was having Botox and Phyllis. She stopped when she was 25. So that tells you how long she's had. And she said, I had so much of them, you know, and she said, you know, you're never quite right. Back in the summer, there were all these pictures of long lens pictures of Lady Gaga at a relative's wedding and everyone was saying, oh, she's pregnant. She's pregnant. It's like, she's not pregnant. She doesn't even really, I don't know if there's a slight tummy here, but they even from that, you're that, you're never just thin enough, or you're never just fat enough, or you're never just whatever the right size is. If we are talking about illness,

we don't really write about other illnesses in this way. And it's this one thing. And I also feel that there's something about the age of a Zempig that has made it worse. Because it's become the sort of hook that you can say, oh, did they take a Zempic? So did they take it? I.e. you took a shortcut, you're morally weak. Did you not admit that you took a Zempic? I.e. you're a liar, you're morally weak. And if you didn't take a Zempic, then why didn't you? Maybe you need to. I feel that there is a level, and in the weight loss drugs are making all of this worse, that they haven't at all, they've done nothing whatsoever despite the ubiquity of them, and particularly the ubiquity of them in the entertainment industry, they have done nothing at all to help us reckon with these kind of incredibly ingrained sort

of atavistic feelings we have about fat and body weight. Now where does that come from in our culture? If you know what I mean, that's a story for an enormous dissertation and many, many books. But in terms of show business and in terms of editors of newspapers and in terms of show business journalists, where does it come from? Does it come from the fact that an audience shows a real desire to read about people's weight? Or does it come from a desire to slap people down a little bit who are more successful and richer than the journalist? I think it comes from both. Both of those appeal to us and so I definitely think there

is that slapping down thing but one of the things you see that is beyond enormous online now is before and after photos of anything. Before and after it's such a sort of, you know, glib but incredibly sort of mesmerizing and involving way to look at before and afters. There's a reason Homes Under the Hammer is the best show on TV. Yeah. You know, and made for TikTok and made for Instagram is that literally is the perfect visual kind of format of our times. Lots of the surgery and the work that and also people have never had so much surgery and you and what they call non-surgical stuff like Botox and fillers and things like that, which are just injected rather than involve a knife.

They've never had so much as they have now and it's really odd. I mean, if you talk to people in the sort of beauty industry or talk to sort of top hairdressers, they will say, it's really scary. The 24 year olds now look exactly the same as the 40 year olds, because they've all had the same things done.

But all of this stuff is seen all the time and people are comparing and comparing and comparing and Instagram has driven this. I know, I suppose now with our TikTok as well, the same thing has driven this stuff completely. And I know that finally over Christmas, we are going to talk about these tweens, the Sephora tweens,

because this is to a huge extent is sort of Ariana Grande's market. And so all these little children who like her and always have because she's a Disney star and she's still always had that great connection with really young fans see all this and I suppose to some extent that's why you will have the there is a concerned mother discourse out there. Absolutely and if anyone, you know, anyone in their 20s now thinking that they don't look right or they look old or whatever it is, you will look back at photos of yourself in your 20s and go, I was so beautiful.

I've never been more handsome. Why was I not a Melanie's cat, Mortwound? I looked amazing. Amazing. And your skin is amazing. Your eyes are amazing. Everything about you is great. And that will last for quite a long time as well. And if anybody is telling you, you need to spend

money to look great, you already look great. There is absolute... The trouble is everybody is telling you, you need to spend money to look great. Every single person. Every person who's telling you need to do that is selling you something. Every single one of the only people you need to listen to are the people who put water in the taps because just hydrate. It's all you need to do. Anyone who needs surgery, anyone who needs a plastic surgery, get it. If you need it, there's lots of conditions you need it for. If you are just a regular human being, you are never going to look better than you currently do

in your natural state and you've got a good 15 or 20 years. If at that point you've got a bit of money behind you, you want to throw some money at the problem, please go ahead. But if you are in your teens and your 20s, by all means take every makeup tutorial in the world. Just, you know, have fun, but you don't need to go under the knife. You are not going to look better than you currently do and you are going to get to the stage. People in their 40s are trying to look like you how you look now. That's what they are. They are literally trying to copy how you look without having any work done at all. That is free. It's absolutely free. You do not need to spend a penny. Give that money to charity. Give it to wherever you want.

You don't need to spend it. Would you not say? I certainly would. And I will talk about this a lot more when we talk about the 10 year old craze for all of this and the people influencing 10 year olds to buy skincare. It is so utterly bleak. I can't even begin to settle in for that Christmas treat because it's coming down the slipway But to bring it back to Ariana Grande I would I would say that it's very difficult and I do understand particularly with a that the sort of parental concern It's impossible to live in this culture and and to think that it's got any better all of these things that are supposed to help Have made things worse the same way that sort of two thousand celebrities It was awful and you had the

paparazzi and all of that, the paparazzi is still bad, but the fandom has become so difficult with social media. We talked about chaperone, we talked about all of those things. Again, it's very difficult to think that a period of progress has not been followed by a massive period of regret that has been complicated by the new technologies, be that social media or be it, you know, semi-glutide or be it whatever form of weight loss thing people are using. There are awful people in the world and, you know, the age of social media means we hear from all of them, you know, in a way we didn't use to and we can block and block and block, but we do hear from the worst people and some people's job in life is to knock other people

down because they feel uncomfortable, but either some people are just mean, right, and they just are, some people are born mean and some people are just uncomfortable with themselves and need to knock other people down because they feel uncomfortable. But either some people are just mean, right? And they just are. Some people are born mean and some people are just uncomfortable with themselves and need to knock other people down. In the olden days it was something easier to avoid that. And now you cannot avoid it. And Ariana Grande can go on a TV program or go on a press tour and 98% of people who are decent human beings can kind of go, good on you and I hope you're okay, or whatever it is.

Or we hear from every single one of the other 2%. Like we constantly hear from it and we constantly have to then think about what they're saying we constantly have to confront it she has to confront it more importantly and it's just it's so tiresome and so boring and I don't know what you do because you can't really say to those people stop because they're doing it for a reason some people are doing it for money and some people are doing it because they're deeply unhappy with themselves and you can't really overcome either of those issues. And you know as I say a section of them are doing it particularly of the fandom because

they feel actually concerned. Yeah. Either way it has actually taught me I suppose the word noise is perhaps the best way to describe it but it must it's obviously quite deafening. It's very very hard still probably harder than it was 10 years ago in fact I think definitely harder than it was 10 years ago. In fact, I think definitely harder than it was 10 years ago to be a young female star in the public eye. Yeah, I think so. But I would say more importantly, just talking to people who are listening to this podcast, if it's an issue that affects you, just that conversation is around the whole time. Anyone who does have issues, I've had issues with my weight my whole life and I will do for the rest of my life. So that conversation is going on in my head the whole time anyway. It's not like the conversation is quiet. But when it's in the culture as well as in the medium,

people are having views on it. People are talking about it. People are telling you about it. You know, it's hard. So anybody does have that. I would say you don't have to worry so much about what people are saying about Ariana Grande. Worry about, you know, just talk to people who you love, talk to your friends, understand that you're beautiful and loved and all of those things and get rid of the shame of what it is about weight that upsets people, what it is about losing weight, what it is about putting on weight, try and lose that shame by talking about it. But people who are constantly writing about it are not helping, I would say. But it is very, very, very, very hard to be a human being, is it not? And it's very hard to be a human being in a world where stimulants

are constantly pushed upon you by every industry they are because just the world that we live in. And so if you can ever take a little bit of time, a little bit of space, just remember who you are as a human being. Remember you're loved and remember that there's no shame, you know, and everyone's going to have addictions, everyone's going to have difficulties and not worry about this controversial conversation going on the whole time. Just take a little bit of time out from it all. And that goes for Ariana Grande as well. Right. Shall we proceed to the break? I actually have a small present for you after the break. No we need to talk about the present you got me at the Royal Albert Hall as well. Also after the

break I've got a present for you which is I'm going to tell you what's going to be Christmas number one. Oh okay I can't wait. Okay. Welcome back everybody. Welcome back. As discussed I am I have a present. Wow, if this is a year's worth of a Zempik, I think it undercuts what we've been talking about. That's my view.

Whoa! For the benefit of the tape, I am passing Richard a copy of the legendary Radio Times double issue, which actually comes out on Tuesday the day this podcast comes out, but which I managed to go behind the counter at a Central London news agent and yes, get this. It's not where you want to go is it? Behind the counter at Central London news agent. You know I loved it back there. Loved it. And a highlighter as well. And traditionally as always a highlighter.

And on the front cover we've got Wallace and Gromit or as the BBC now call them Gromit. Thank you so much. That's a, oh my god that's so exciting. It's a great, by the way's so exciting. It's it's it's a great the rate by the way the Radio Times Christmas issue is such a legendary thing and I'll hold it like me and my whole childhood I still try and get it every single year and they've done so many good things in that there's a because obviously I had to put on for myself as well I've already cracked it open you know outnumbered is coming back on

Boxing Day with all and all the children are now grown up. They've redone an exact Radio Times photo that they did right back from when they were tiny and now they're all so good. So by the way that comes out on Tuesday. This is not sponsored content. It's really not. But also by the way the present you bought me at the Royal Albert Hall, I bought you Nitro but you have got me, genuinely listen you can look at my IMDB if you wish, you can look at my Wikipedia, you got me an executive producer credit, you bought me an executive producer credit on a film called Another Plan From Outer Space, The Doomed. Yeah, and it's actually on, not only is it on your upcoming producer credits which include

two things, the Thursday Murder Club, directed by Chris Columbus and produced by Mr. Steven Spielberg's company, and this one which I'm going to let you know is probably going to rate considerably lower. You don't care about things like averages and ratings and sales Richard. No, we showed a little clip from it didn't we at the Albert Hall and it looks pretty special. That was the first one. I can't believe that Hollywood is open to financial corruption. Anyone can become a producer. Anyone can buy an executive producer credit and it's actually going to be on IMDB.

I love both of my presents, thank you. Now Christmas number one, last year we predicted it right, we predicted Christmas number one book last year, so we're going to do the same this year. I want to talk about one very specific song that has caught fire in the last few years. There's traditionally, ever since the advent of streaming, Christmas songs are huge at Christmas in the UK and we've had the Holy Triumvirate, which is Wham! Last Christmas, Mariah! All I Want For Christmas Is You and The Pogues, Fairy Ted of New York. Those are the three that have sort of always been the top three Christmas songs in the UK. Now The Pogues has now dropped out of that top three. Into that top three has come a

song which for years would have been at the very end of all those, you know, now that's what I call Christmas compilations and that is Rockin' around the Christmas tree by Brenda Lee, which has become absolutely huge. It's become huge over here and it's become absolutely massive in the United States. So this was recorded in the fifties rocking around the Christmas tree. Brenda Lee, she was 13 years old when she recorded it. So if you listen to that, that's a 13 year old, incredible voice, incredible voice, One of the greatest. For 13 that is extraordinary. Vocalists of all time.

It was written by a guy called Johnny Marks. And Johnny Marks, who really specialised in Christmas songs, he wrote A Jolly Holly Christmas, which we might know the bublae version of. But he also wrote Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Did he? It's weird to think that someone wrote that. Yeah. But you know what I mean?

It feels like it feels like it's been I suppose so I mean are they? So he wrote that but he wrote Rockin Around the Christmas Tree. She recorded it at 13 years old. Now as I say it's bumbled along for a few years. Brenda Lee is very much still with us. Yes she's still alive. And at 78 she joined TikTok and on TikTok she decided to do a lip sync version of Rockin Around the Christmas Tree with Casey Musgraves and various other country stars and it meant that last year at the age of 78 Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree went to number one in the US on the Billboard top 100. In the US they don't have Christmas number one singles there's only been two in history which are which are Mariah Carey that

went to number one and the Chipmunks song by the Chipmunks. Mariah's song by the way went in 2019. By the way, if you are a member of our club, we've got a whole special episode all about Queen of Christmas herself, Mariah Carey. We have a lovely bonus episode alongside our It's a Royal Knockout episode, Stephen Seagal episode, Die Hard, we've got all sorts going on there. Die Hard is yet to come out, but anyway, we'll continue. So at 78 years old she became the oldest woman ever to be number one on the US Billboard

100. The next week she had turned 79, so became the oldest woman again. And this year at 80, I suspect it might go to number one again. So that song has become absolutely massive. It's become massive because at 78 she decided to go on TikTok, which is why this year I suspect it's going to be top three in the UK, rocking around the Christmas tree. When for years it sort of hovered around the kind of 20s or something. So the question is what's going to be Christmas number one in the UK?

In the UK. Can I just say how that looks more, you know, I'm sure Rory's already done this explainer on the rest is politics about how Christmas number one is calculated, but let me just chime in anyway. So any number one is done, sales, it's Friday to Thursday in the given week. Download sales is one thing. Streams are counted depending on whether the person has a paid or a free subscription to the service. So a hundred paid streams equals one sale and 600 free streams equals one sale. So basically the sort of stream to sale ratio is kind of 200 to one. And 200 to 1 and you could

and you're also only at any week you're only allowed three tracks in the charts. They're not going to if you have your album out and everyone loves everything and they're streaming the whole thing like Taylor Swift or whatever you can only have three in the charts but that's how they're doing it. Now tell me what's going on this year please. Well it means of course that I mean forever and ever and ever now it's going to be a Christmas song that's number one because people are streaming it people are playing play This and what have you. And we had the era of X Factor, which went away. Then we had the era of Ladd Baby,

who did all their songs for the Trussell Trust. That's gone away. And I think now it is just those Christmas songs are gonna be battling out year after year after year. So last year for the first time ever, Wham got to Christmas number one. Mariah still haven't had Christmas number one. It's been number one, but it hasn't hasn't been a number one at Christmas.

The Pogues will be in the top 10 as say Brenda Lee will be in the top 10. A few songs which is sort of creeping up the charts a little bit underneath the tree by Kelly Clarkson, I think might break into the top 10 for the first time ever this year. I might keep going in that upper trajectory. Felice Navidad has never been in the top 20. It looks like it might be in the top 20 this year. But I think the Christmas number one for the next 10 years is going to be Wham! versus Mariah! and then maybe something else might

come along but it'll be another one of the Christmas songs. I hate to sound a note of negativity but is there something that, you know what, for me all of this stuff, the fact that it's just the same things again and we're going back to these same furrows, I quite understand it because it's comfort, whatever, but it does seem to fit with me with all those, you know, those words like bed rotting and the idea of escapism and that kind of general- Bed rotting? Bed, you do know the phrase bed rotting?

People just staying in their bed and can't get out and just like, what's the point? I'm removing from life. It's one of the words of the year, maybe last year, removing from life. It's one of the words of the year maybe last year I've been well whatever what recently it was one of those words of the year. It's about a withdrawal from the present and there is a general obviously there is a sort of there's a role it's a withdrawal from the now from the current that there's a sort of general negative view around in the world and I find it quite odd it's not sort of necrotic but it is slightly like there's nothing new being created and the same thing we're going

back and back to the same thing I don't know I honestly I don't think that's right I think the charts are reflecting a certain thing which is because we have streaming we absolutely have the most mainstream things at the top all the time whereas the chart used to be what's new what's new what's new because you have to go out and buy something whereas now you know you don't it's literally what are you almost everyone in Britain putting on a playlist is essentially what's going to be number one. And so lots of people are trying to be Christmas number one again this year. Even Simon Cowell is back, Callum Scott and Leona Lewis, Reverend

of the Makers have done a great Samaritans charity song. So lots of people are still aiming for this. Christmas, like the final episode of an X Factor, everybody starts listening to music at the same time and they all listen to the same music. I cannot see a way in the next 10 years we can get rid of this, the military industrial complex of Wham versus Mariah. And also they really buy into it.

Andrew Ridgely's off doing lots of videos, so is Mariah, giving lots of money to charity and all sorts of things. At East 17, I think it's the 30th anniversary, they beat Mariah to Christmas number one when it first came out. So everyone's still going for it. Don't think it's a more abundatiy of where we are as a culture because there's been amazing music that's come out this year. I just think that there's something very specific about Christmas and the fact that suddenly

it's not just music lovers who are streaming music every day. It is everybody is doing it and once everybody does it, suddenly Dairy Milk is the most popular chocolate bar, Ready Salted Walkers are the most popular crisps and Wham vs. Mariah is gonna be the Christmas number one battle now until the end of eternity. Oh my god. As a result it doesn't mean anything,. I don't think in the same way that when we were young, Christmas was number one was a... Christmas was a number one meant a thing and you were aware of what was coming. This is like a totally meaningless thing in the culture, completely meaningless for anyone in like

Gen A, for Daphna, Gen Z too. I just think it means nothing at all. Yes, I think that's right. I mean in America, Christmas number one's never meant anything. Over here, it's been a sort of fun thing that we kind of invented, we created it and made it this battle every year. And I think that for those of us who remember and hark back to those days and, you know, Shaken Stevens becoming Christmas number one or Pet Shop Boys becoming Christmas number one and things like that. And it was exciting.

Yeah, now it is the law of diminishing returns to the point where just the idea that a 79 year old woman on TikTok might somehow gatecrest the top three. I now find exciting. At our Royal Albert Hall thing, we did a World Cup of Christmas songs and beforehand Richard was like, just to let you know, it will be Mariah or it will be Wham. Joey, who is one of our producers, who did draw, used to work at FIFA, so we knew that the one thing was that the draw couldn't be rigged. Yeah, and then the Qatari National Anthem won the World Cup and Christmas songs. All my family were like, no, there's no way, because what actually won it was Fairy Tale of New York. And my family were like, no, you were absolutely, you totally fixed that,

because everyone knew because they hadn't played the four chorus, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, we genuinely did not think, and thank goodness, that they were able to do it because when we went off to get ready I think they then practiced it and it was absolutely faultless and everyone went nuts and was standing up on their phones. What we had was the snow machine. But it's interesting that we're about to talk about our friends at More In Common, the polling organisation, and they looked into Christmas songs as well. Actually, Last Christmas and All I Want for Christmas Is You are huge with Gen Z and with Millennials. But yes, Baby Boomers and Gen X, Fairy Tale

of New York actually is still the most popular Christmas song. But it is not going to be number one because they are not the people who stream the most number one, I think, will be Last Christmas. Okay, well hold those thoughts because I'd also like you to talk to me about the Christmas number one book. Christmas number one book, I think this year. So last year it was Myrtle, which we said. In the year 2020, you beat a little guy called Barack Obama, I think was his name. You sold double of all of his in 2020.

I know, so that was a long time ago. I wish we were doing the podcast then. Can you imagine? Yeah, I think that this year's Christmas number one, again, it's very similar to last Christmas by WAM being Christmas number one. I think that this year's Christmas number one will be the Guinness Book of Records. There are slightly fewer books being sold this year, which maybe something we'll talk about next year. And that's because last year, they are, or post COVID, they really pumped up the prices of books and they haven't come down

again yet. And yet and so books are making exactly the same amount of money but they're selling slightly fewer which I think really affects Christmas because you know a 12 pound present is easier than a 20 pound present. Shall we finish off talking about some Christmas polling that we had done by More In Common? Can we begin with any other business of the polling of which more and more in common also did for us Of Clarkson and Martin Lewis. Oh, yes so the other week we were talking about whether a celebrity could become prime minister and Some people think they couldn't I absolutely stand by the fact that they definitively could in the system We have at the moment

You could set up a party tomorrow that could win 400 seats in a few years time But martin lewis and jeremy clarkson were the were the two names that really rose to the top in terms of people who had a group of people behind them and who had some sort of, you know, a voice on the political stage. So we put- Tribunes of the people. Tribunes of the people. We put the direct question of if Martin Lewis were to run against Jeremy Clarkson in a general election, who would win? And it is, I was going to say bad news for Clarkson, but I don't think he wants to be a prime minister so it's probably good news for Clarkson.

Clarkson gets 24% of the vote, Martin Lewis 73%. Okay once again I have to say I disagree with this and I'll tell you why. I reckon in a present this is essentially a presidential type of campaign because Clarkson will pull ahead in that let me tell you in the actual presidential campaign and I'm sure that people have told more in common this, but they tell their GPs they drink 14 units a week. Let me tell you, the British people are nutters and Clarkson would pull ahead. Okay, and I will go to the wall saying that.

By the way, nutters in a good way, I would say. Yeah, no, not always though. Yes, that's true. Not always though, not always. But they, no, I, and I'm not saying that, you know, voting for Clarkson is the nasty position because this is, these are both celebrities and it doesn't really, but I'm saying that there's, there's much more chaos beneath and they could, I just think they would say that they wanted to vote for the technocrat who would save them some money, but I

actually don't think that they would do it once the campaign had got properly underway. And if it was a US presidential campaign, like sort of a nine month thing, let me send you Clarkson all the way, all day long. Absolute shoo-in. Interestingly, they also polled for us if Martin Lewis ran against Keir Starmer for Prime Minister. Martin Lewis wins that 73-27. Sorry, by the way, 24% of Labour voters would prefer Jeremy Clarkson as PM over Keir Starmer. That's the one most- Jeremy Clarkson as PM? Yeah. 24% of Labour voters. So that's the most worrying polling that Keir Starmer has seen and he's seen some bad stuff over the past few weeks.

I think I'm more worrying when if you're Kemmy Badenock. So Martin Lewis beat Badenock 75-25 which is huge. But among Tory voters, so Tory voters were asked who would you vote for in a general election between Martin Lewis and Kemmy Badenock? It is 50-50. Do you know what? We will go for the money saving expert rather than the woman we just elected to leader of our party. Clarkson messaged us after we talked about that and said, if it came down to a general election between Jeremy Clarkson and Martin Lewis, I would vote for Martin Lewis. So there you go. Well, he'd be an absurdist. He'd say that on the stump as well and he'd still worry. So we got the five favourite Christmas films of all time according to the British public

that More and Common have given us. And then number five, I'm disqualifying. So number five, we'll get to this. Number five, the fifth most popular Christmas film was Die Hard, right? But More and Common also hold everyone to say is Die Hard a Christmas film? I think it is because I think the more Christmas films are the better because I think anything you know I love films I love Christmas if it's a Christmas film the world feels happier the more Christmas films there are however the British public absolutely disagree with me 51 31 say it's not a Christmas film so it's disqualified so number five younger people do think it's a Christmas film yeah they're right in my opinion but we have to become a Christmas film with what I think we discussed on in our special episode.

As I told you, endlessly after Brexit we have to respect democracy. So actual our number five Christmas film of all time is It's a Wonderful Life. Okay. Yeah. I think would have been higher if more people had seen it. So certainly anyone who's. I think that's amazing. It's basically 80 years old.

That's extraordinary. And it's obviously a brilliant film. That's wonderful that it's it's basically 80 years old. Yeah, that's extraordinary. And it's it's obviously a brilliant film That's that that's wonderful that it's that high up and it's always also just a wonderful trip to the cinema over Christmas There's always on some local cinemas. It's just you know, go and see that. It's a gorgeous thing number four the snowman Yes a TV movie number three love actually, okay number one by is going to be a shock, just to let you all know. Number two, absolutely, I'll give them this, Elf. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think number one is going to be a shock. Number one, the greatest Christmas film of all time. Home Alone. Home Alone. Yes. You know, I would make a case for National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, but I appreciate its niche, so I think it has to just, you know, not compete. Home Alone is, it's a perfect movie. I mean, I obviously he's directed the Thursday murder car. It's a perfect movie I honestly think it's a perfect movie every now You know, there's lots of things times when you watch a movie you think even though I completely love this

Yes, I can see its flaws and they don't matter because you're swept along It is perfectly constructed on every single level everything about it but obviously the performances but it is as a sort of piece of story and absolutely faultless. So I think it works just perfectly every time. And also lovely that there are parents listening to this now whose kids have not seen it yet, and with Elf as well. What's the age do you think to watch Home Alone?

Oh God, really young. You can watch it really young. I don't know, my children watch it very young and absolutely loved it. What a Christmas treat that is. We watch it really young. I don't know, my children watched it very young and absolutely loved it. What a Christmas treat that is. It's brilliant. We watch it every year. And Home Alone 2. We don't go to Three or Four where they no longer have the services of Macaulay Culkin.

And this is just a bit of fun. They looked into the political affiliations of people and what Christmas films they liked the most. The film that skews most labour, Christmas film that skews most labour, is Elf. I can see that. The Christmas film that skews most labour, Christmas film that skews most labour is Elf. Okay, I can see that. The Christmas film that skews the most Tory is Love Actually. That's the most Tory skewing Christmas movie of all time. The Christmas film that skews the most green is A Muppet Christmas Carol, which by the way should have been in the top five, but also Kermit is green. So something's going on there. There's an affinity and this is just Michael Caine. Yeah, maybe it's Michael Caine and genuinely this is true.

The film that skews most reform is Scrooge. No way. Yeah, how about that? So for Labour it's Elf, for Tory it's Love Actually, for Green it's A Muppet Christmas Carol and for reform it's Scrooge. For reform it's Scrooge. Yeah. Well, well, well. Genuinely. I'm going to watch that again this week and just take, absorb the vibes. If an election were held tomorrow and only people whose favourite Christmas film was scrooged were able

to vote, reform would be our government. They also polled the Christmas chocolates. Yes they did. And I found that, yeah, the quality street, the purple one as they put it, the green triangle, sorry it's a Noiset triangle. I'm so sorry. That's what it says on the box. Sorry if you've got no heritage. If you spent a lot of Christmases looking at the plan. You're fine I think on the boxes darling I don't actually call it a green triangle, it's called a Noiset triangle. So I don't know what you're talking about when you say green triangle. Because I tell you what I've got heritage. I actually know these chocolates and I know this in charter and I remember pouring over the boxes looking at them, right? And I tell you what, I don't even want to...

Where did those filthy fruit creams come? Because that, and I don't want to start another thing just before Christmas, but if it falls to me, a bookshelf style war. The strawberry cream was number three on Quality Street. Oh my god. It should be number one. Well where does that go with reform voters because I want to know. Well strawberry cream would be my number one, strawberry cream would be my number one and orange cream would be my number two. Which actually was quite a lot further down the list. Okay, so fruit creams are satanic and by that I don't mean they get all the best lines, I mean that they are evil and disgusting. Mind you, having said that, you want someone in the family

wants to eat them So yeah, I do the good ones great. Okay, fair enough. Can I do an impression? We do like Jack Spratt and his wife carry on. This is this is your Christmas. Yes. Oh, I do know what I won't I won't have an awesomely triangle what I might do. Oh, mmm. There's a toffee penny left. Oh terrific I love the toffee pennies. Oh my god. How are we doing a podcast? I don't know. That is Absolutely you like a toffee penny because my mother liked toffee pennies and she put us on to them and said that we used to love these when we were little you do everything no I don't that's something to be said for her toffee penny you would literally you'd look in a tin of

coffee penny I like the toffee pennies oh my god that is genuinely a lot of people think fruit cream I'm sorry about this polling. Again, like I said, people say a lot of things to posters. I think it's good that we disagree with each other about various things, but this is even more than your bookshelf nonsense. This is sociopathic. To like a toffee penny. Toffee pennies are only in there because it makes it a fortune for the Quality Street people

because they don't cost anything to make. It's literally just the offcuts of all the other chocolates. Okay, that's not the recipe. All I'm saying is if you are a Quality Street executive, and some people must be that, that's a cool job, isn't it? Where your job is you're like Quality Street brand manager or something. They are literally going,

I don't know what we should do, this would be delicious. Why don't we just save money? Why don't we do one of our chocolates without any chocolate at all? Literally, we'll put them in a tin of chocolates, but there is no chocolate in it whatsoever. Do you think anyone's going to swallow that? Yeah, Marina Heidware is her favourite. None of this content was sponsored. I just wanted to say that. Yeah, that is lunacy. Probably quite obviously when I was calling some of them war crimes.

We put together, exactly. Thank you to our friend at The Hague. I've got Quality Street on the phone. They're slightly concerned about the advert. We put celebrations versus miniature heroes versus roses versus Quality Street and say what's the best tin, what's the best tub, which you're quite right, they're getting smaller for inflation. Celebrations won. Okay. And can you guess which celebration won out of the celebrations?

So the greatest Christmas chocolate of all? I'm sorry if it's confusing. They've given me the polling as well, Richard, so I don't have to guess. It's a Malteser, isn't it? And it's wrong that because it should be the Galaxy Caramel. But I think people think they're getting more simply because of the size of the packet. There are lots and lots of things in as a country that split us down the middle. There's lots of things we do disagree on.

There's a few things that bring us together as a nation. One of them is that the Malteser is the best celebration. I mean, it's just an absolute given. The Galaxy Caramel. Yes. Oh, that's a nice, well, it's got chocolate on it. That's unlike you. We've gone from talking about weight gain to talking about Christmas chocolates, and that's a podcast for you. Right.

But yes, so the Malteser is the best Christmas chocolate. I think we all agreed that the strawberry cream is better than the toffee penny. I think if we're to... No, no, that's not the conclusion of this conversation, but we'll leave it here. Have you got any recommendations? Because I have. I would like to recommend Jonathan Coe's new book, The Proof of My Innocence. It's out now. I think he's such a brilliant novelist. I genuinely, every time I pick up one of his books, I think, I wonder what he's done this time because he constantly sort of genre bends or does something new and they're all really funny as well as just being so clever

and brilliant. Great front cover as well. I love it. I would like to talk about a show that you can absolutely hammer across Christmas if you've got Discovery Plus called Hometown. Ingrid and I were looking for like a great home makeover show and we summed it across Hometown and it's Erin and Ben. Ben is a carpenter and Erin is a interior designer and they live in a place called Laurel, Mississippi and the whole show is about people moving to Laurel, they find them houses. They are so wonderful. The whole vibe of the thing is so great. The houses are so great. The whole thing from start to finish is an absolute delight, it's called Hometown and we are on scene one and there are 97 episodes of this and all the episodes are pretty much exactly the same but it's one of those shows where

you go, oh please make this the same as the last one. And it's honestly, if you've got Discovery Plus, it's just one of those absolute warm baths of a television show, Hometown. Shall we see each other again for the questions and answers additional Thursday? Do you know what? I don't know if we should. Okay. It feels like we need a little bit of time apart.

Let's hope two days is enough. I'll be here if you can't handle it. And I'll be here with a pocketful of toffee pennies. See you on Thursday. See you on Thursday. The End