The Rest Is Entertainment - Millionaire Mutts & The Power Of JK Rowling

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

The documentary series 24 Hours In Police Custody is a jewel in Channel 4's crown, Richard and Marina go inside the custody suite to learn the shows secrets. How far can you stretch the truth on Would I Lie To You? When do actors get paid? Has the wrong episode of a soap ever been broadcast? Just a few of the questions that are answered in this episode of The Rest Is Entertainment. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club for ad free listening and access to bonus episodes: www.therestisentertainment.com Sign up to our newsletter: www.therestisentertainment.com Twitter: @‌restisents Instagram: @‌restisentertainment YouTube: @‌therestisentertainment Email: [e-mail] Producers: Neil Fearn + Joey McCarthy Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club for ad free listening and access to bonus episodes: www.therestisentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. The housing crisis in the GTA has reached a critical point with more than two and three residents being affected. Reporting that almost 9 million Canadians are living in food insecure households. Over 1 million people in the GTA

now live below the poverty line. We're just out today. Mental health support is the number one reason people are calling 211 first. At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day. Help us end poverty and build a better GTA, any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment Questions and Answers edition.

I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hello Marina. How are you? Yeah, I'm very well. I think a lot better than I was on Tuesday's show, two days further away from my kidney stone. You're recovering all the time. Yes, exactly. And that makes me happy.

Excellent. Listen, we have all sorts of questions from our wonderful We do. Listeners slash viewers. Can I begin by asking you a question about one of the greatest shows on TV, 24 Hours in Police custody? Oh, yes. If you haven't watched this and you think it's a sort of boring blue light show

and that's not your thing, you must watch this because it's not what you think at all. But Nick Dodd says, how do they decide which cases to follow? There must be so many that lead nowhere. While most of the footage is CCTV in the custody suite or body cam, which could be edited retrospectively, a lot is filmed in staff areas too, implying a camera crew is present

and someone choosing which cases to follow. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I spoke to Simon Ford, he's the exec producer of that show, also the creator of the show. And as Marina says, there's something about that show that is, every now and again, there's brilliant police procedural shows, but this one has been consistently brilliant

for eight or nine years now. And every time it comes on, every time there's a new one, you know it's gonna be blue chip. You know you're gonna discover something about the police. You know, gonna discover extraordinary stories and the way they're filmed is something that could not have been done 20 years ago. As Nick says, there's, you know, body cam and stuff, which puts you into situations that you might not be in with a crew. But the question remains, if you do

watch these things, there's incredible footage, as he says, of behind the scenes. There's footage that you wouldn't ordinarily get if you were, if you weren't following people around. So Simon just talked me through the whole process he says well look we film the starts of an awful lot of cases and he said and over the years we've got a feel like a copper's feel what's going to you know become a bigger case and we start following those a little bit more lots of them go nowhere so they film the start of it and actually they catch someone immediately it wasn't you know it's open and It's open and shut, there's no complexity to it.

When you start really getting into a case that you know is working, then you start throwing more and more resources at it. And as Nick says, so you've got things like the initial arrests and things on body cam, but the stuff, the behind the scenes stuff and talking to people involved with the cases, you start doing that more and more with cases where you think, okay something is definitely happening here. Now the absolute secret to how they are able to do it, and it's actually Channel 4's decision, and Channel 4 did a very smart thing with The Garden, who make this show and said,

look, we're not going to ask you for four a year, six a year, eight a year. You deliver them when you've got one. And so they've had shows that have taken six years from their first bit of filming to the court case, which of course, they can actually show them. So Channel 4 has said, we love what you do. We love these shows. We know whenever they drop, viewers go crazy for them. There's a brilliant one at the moment about a Norfolk meth gang and you know, ratings are through the roof. Channel 4 is great, you know, and so you know every time it drops that you're going to get a big audience for it. But that comes entirely from the fact

that they are not put under pressure to deliver for a year. The question that often comes up with 24 hours in police custody is why do people allow themselves to be filmed? And there are two very good reasons for this. Firstly, if you are guilty of a crime, you waive your right to anonymity anyway. You wouldn't have to be pixelated, whatever happens. But Simon Ford says, which I think is very interesting and very relevant of the times times that actually most people want to be filmed anyway. Most people, whether they're victim or whether they're perpetrator actually want to hear their stories told and want to talk to camera. And one of the real strengths of 24 hours in police custody is it focuses a lot on the victims and you talk a lot to the victims, the families of victims and you know, you understand

that the consequences of the crimes, but it's also rather good at talking to the perpetrators and trying to find some humanity there, trying to find where their crimes came from, talking about their childhood and talking about their school days and talking about, you know, it's and you can, some of it you take with a pinch of salt. But yeah, so the real truth is, it's weirdly, it's a commissioning decision, which is we trust you guys, deliver when you can deliver. And Simon Ford and his incredible team of directors and producers, just getting that nose for what story is going to work for them. The police obviously are very, very happy to be involved in these things because it

does almost always show them in a very, very good light in a world in which the police are not always shown in a good light, shows the pressures they're under, which Nightcoppers, funnily enough, the other Channel 4 show about Brighton Coppers also does. So for the police, it's good PR, I would say. And again, on 24 Hours in Police custody, they understand when a lawyer is interesting. There was a brilliant one recently driving his big Range Rover and what have you, and they understand that that's an interesting person to talk to. They understand that every side of a crime is interesting, you know, every bit of it. So you just get this whole human story and they show this sort of 360 degree

view of how that happens. But it comes down the enormous credit of Channel 4 just saying, no, it's not an identikit show. We trust you. Go and make a documentary when it's ready, show it. And it's really, really paid off for them over the years. So they don't really know how many they're going to get a year. They have no idea how many they're going to get a year. So thank you so much to Simon Ford for all that information and also thank you for making that brilliant television show because you imagine the hours that go into that and the skill in the edit as well.

Alex Rye has a question for you Marina. Alex says I am a big fan of Frasier which features Eddie the dog. I was wondering if Eddie's owners received a royalty fee per episode for repeats, and how it works in general when you have an animal as part of the cast. Do they receive a per episode fee the same way as the human cast? Oh yes they do. Yes they do. Eddie was actually a dog called Moose.

Eddie was paid $10,000 an episode. Excuse me? Yeah. Thought to have earned probably I think more than 3 million over the whole thing. I don't know whether the estate, the estate won't get residuals, but you know, he wouldn't have been in a union That's the trouble. He is not in the Performing Dogs Guild of America because there isn't one and you do you yeah We should set that up. Yeah. Well, there's quite a lot of animals, which we'll get to in a minute Moose was born in the early 1990s. He was largest puppy in his litter, couldn't be controlled by

original owner, was taken by an animal handler, adopted and taught incredibly well because basically what Eddie had to do was just give that kind of, you know, unimpressed stare to Kelsey Grammer. You could do that for minutes at a time. He was chained really, really well. And if they wanted him to sort of nuzzle one of the cast, they put some pate behind the ears. I know. For the final two series, I think he was replaced by his son, Enzo. This does happen. Do you know what? That's a nepo puppy, isn't it? Yeah, that's a nepo dog. I don't think they got on, father and son.

It often happens in Hollywood. Yeah, he died in 2006 16 years old All the cast members of Frasier got the most fan mail Really Eddie so in terms of animals being paid animals are paid I was a member on that show when someone's talking to Martin and Martin says I called him Eddie spaghetti and I said is that Cause he likes Italian food. He said no, it's because he's got worms Dogs on we talked about whatynch and Tin once before in this Q and A, that was a very well paid dog. Lassie, Lassie was hugely well paid.

The original Lassie, yeah, it was a franchise dog, I'm afraid, was called Pal. Now got huge amounts of money. More in the first one in Lassie Come Home, I think he got paid two, two and a half times what Elizabeth Taylor got paid. She was young as But as I say that was a franchise dog John Wayne once won one of one of lassie's brothers in a poker game

There was down on a they were making a Western called Hondo and the trainer they said just there was nothing to do out in the middle of the wilderness and There and they play poker every night and the trainer I think had a bit of a problem and lost. Lassie's brother? Yeah. I'm not sure that's something I'd want to win particularly. No, no, you think John Wayne's going to be alright, fine. High paid animals, yeah.

Bart the Bear, that was a bear that was in so many movies, played opposite. Morgan Freeman, he played opposite. Auntie Hopkins in the Edge, he made a lot of money Bart the Bear. Bart the Bear? Yeah. Where does his money go to? The trainer. Hopkins in the edge. He made a lot of money Bart the bear. Yeah What does this money go to the trainer? Might you've got a trainer bear to do You're a stage mom of sorts The anyway animals can't be nominated for Oscars and they have okay They've really felt that Bart the bear should have had one

I know what you're thinking how come Harvey Weinstein's got so many they can't be a rintin tin They couldn't crystal the Capuchin monkey, now that earned a huge amount of money, was in George the Jungle, Night at the Museum, Hangover, Dr. Dolittle. Same monkey? Same monkey, yeah, supposedly. But the most expensive animal ever that was ever ever ever in anything on screen, I believe it's this and you can you know comment me everybody, was Kako who is the whale in Free Willy. Do you know the story? I mean this sounds free. Free Willy comes out and everyone is captivated. As it turns out is the Orkan actor who played Willy in the movie quite literally

captivated. What they did, Warner Brothers really weirdly, I don't know why they did this, they put a phone line in the end credits saying, you know, if you want to help free Wales or something, and hundreds of thousands of people ended up calling. So Keiko, who was in the film Freed, was in reality, behind bars, 24 hours in Wales custody. Was captive, had been sold on multiple times, was in some kind of Mexican amusement park. Keiko. had been sold on multiple times, it was in some kind of Mexican amusement park. Kako. So it became a really big backlash considering obviously the subject matter of the movie, it seemed you know quite hypocritical which is so unusual in Hollywood. Warner Brothers had to create a free willy Kako foundation, can you imagine, to introduce him back into the world. Okay, imagine some really hard-ass studio accountant, you're so sad, like what's

this line item? Sorry, that's not in millions is it? Right, it was costing them £500,000 a year to take, they took him back to Iceland to train him for release. In the end it cost more than £20 million this whole thing. And I'm terribly sorry to tell you. Okay, prepare yourself for a non-happy ending to this story. They finally release him after spending honestly £20 million on this thing in 2002 and I'm afraid to say he died of pneumonia in a bay in Norway in 2003. They could never join a pod or it seemed to join a pod but then couldn't join a pod and it just

didn't work out so don't believe everything you see in the movies. Sorry about that but that is without I would have thought the most expensive animal related thing you're ever going to see on the screen because it just ended up costing so much. I'm amazed that a group of whales have never done a podcast. I know this is absolutely not Alex's question, but I note that the the Frasier reboot has just been cancelled. I know.

So they did two more seasons of it, which is sort of quite enjoyable to watch in a funny kind of way. And Nicholas Lindhurst is very, very good it as as Fraser's old pal but yeah there's something about it that wasn't quite right but yeah so that's a that is not coming back but it really it really really misses Niles I think. Yes absolutely. Anyway I know that's nothing to do with with Keiko the whale, the rest is soul. Okay this is definitely for you Richard about would I lie to you. Sarah Adamson says how much flexibility in the truth do the panelists have? I always wonder this can they tell lies within the truth for comedic effect?

That's a very specific question that a lot of people ask which is so as we know on that show interview with researchers you give them those the stories about your own life you turn up on the day you turn over a bit of paper and either one of them is your true story or if it's a lie that's been completely made up and you have no idea what's going to be on that card. But if it is a truth and you can see Lee and David is the only time in that show where you see either of them trying to do a bit of policing because sometimes people will come on that show a new comic and they will they'll have a story which is a true story and like Sarah says they will extemporize within it facts that are clearly not true and that you absolutely cannot do that's the only unwritten rule of the whole game is if you have a true story the whole thing

is true if you come up with a comic conceit in the middle of it it's fine so long as you say no i'm sorry that's me being ridiculous of course i didn't do that bit but if you insist that a certain thing happened within that story that would make it impossible and it didn't do that bit. But if you insist that a certain thing happened within that story that would make it impossible and it didn't happen, that's the only time there would ever ever be any sort of intervention or that wouldn't be used because you over record on what I lie to you. But yeah, if you are talking about a story that is true, you have to remain within the train tracks of the truth. That's that's that's the end rule. If it's a lie, go wherever you want, say whatever you want. You can include some truths in a lie if you want to, to try and give it some ballast.

But yeah, if you are telling a true story, you cannot, to make it harder for the others, invent a bit that makes it more unreasonable, which I always think is quite fun. But occasionally you'll see David or Lee just going, no, hold on, because if that were true, and so sometimes people go, oh no, I don't mean exactly that, I don't mean exactly that happened.

I don't think I've ever got a lie past anyone or a truth past anyone on that show ever. But yeah, if you're reading out a truth, you cannot embellish in any way. You want to be entertaining, you know, and you want to tell the story in depth. I think it's such a skilled show. That's one of the shows I'm most in awe of on television.

I think it's amazing. Every time I watch it, no, I'd be so bad. Really? Yeah, I think I'd be awful. Do be awful you think yeah I just can't believe they turn over those cards and to see it right then and produce what they produce they do such horrible things to me on that show give me the most complicated things you could possibly have just just for fun David turned over a card and said I have a ten-point plan to survive in prison you know you could have said three-point plan, come on.

It's such a good question Sarah, cause it's, I think people ask it a lot. There is an unwritten rule not to make stuff up if something's true. You do not make up something untrue within it. And if you do do that, you'll often get called out on it. That's lovely. Shall we go to an ad break now?

I would so like to. This episode is brought to you by NordVPN. Now it might be a new year, Richard, but online fraudsters continue with their same old tricks. I feel you're about to help me avoid some online disasters. I'm always here to help. I live to serve. And with that in mind, I want to tell you about NordVPN's threat protection. Threat protection? It's the first Steven Seagal movie. Threat protection 2. That could be his comeback. He doesn't necessarily need a comeback. But yes, once again, we are

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T R I E and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee and it only costs the price of a cup of coffee a month. The link is in the episode notes. Bagel? Bagel. Bagel? Bagel? Bagel? Bagel? Bagel? Bagel? Bagel? Bagel. Bagel? Bagel? Bagel. Bagel? Bagel. Gel? Bagel? Bagel. Bagel? Bagel. No, wait. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Bagel. Whatever you call them, we have them. Bagels and Bagels. Available now at your local Cobb's Bread. Do that. Welcome back everybody and welcome back to a question from Gemma Morton. Gemma, thank you so much for sending in your question. By the way, anyone who has questions, you send them to... TheRestIsEntertainment at gmail.com anything you fancy knowing and you could be on the show too, just like Gemma. Gemma says, love you guys. Love the show. She doesn't say that at all, but listen,

don't insert lies into your truth. Would it do you any harm to say it Gemma? Gemma says, when an author sells the rights to their book, do they lose any control over changes or do they get consulted? For example, I recall the film version of Dan Brown's Inferno. We talked about him on Tuesday. The ending was completely different from the book. However, I also recall hearing JK Rowling only wanted British actors for Harry Potter.

So do you get more control if you are a more famous author? This is a fairly short answer, but we can talk about it. But you get the control that your agent gets you and they will do the deal. And you can ask for anything you like but it will affect that it may be that I actually remember funny enough when JK I seem to remember this anyway we first heard that the Harry Potter books were going to become films someone had said oh actually Steven Spielberg was really interested in

making them but he felt he had to make them in America because it he's so from that milieu and he couldn't sort of think himself into the British boarding school or whatever it is. JK Rowling was very particular she wanted it to be set here and she's I know she's very particular all the way down to what happens in the parks and the rides and all of those things is very controlling of those things but that's because she's able to be but someone has negotiated her that deal. Some people honestly don't mind. I spoke to an author recently and I think they're adapting his book for a film and he said to me,

actually they've completely changed the ending and they made it much better. Which I thought was a really sort of lovely, I mean he's a very very successful author and I thought that's amazing to just be cool about it and realise that people are just going to understand that you've got your book and then there's a whole separate thing and you kind of let them do what they want. In general, you might get less of a, you might get less money the more control you wish to exert. If you're starting to say I want complete control over this and that and they're just buying an option on your book and you're actually a relatively unknown first time author, you're not going to get it or they're not going to do the deal with you if they can't sort of do much more of what they like.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's a trade off really. I know with the Thirsty Murder Club, when we sold that before the first book had even come out, so it didn't have a reputation particularly. But there were different parties who were interested. There were certain people who part of their deal would be, you will have complete creative control over the whole process. You can write it, which I didn't want anyway, so that wasn't worth my while. With Amblin and Spielberg, when they came in, they said, look, it's definitely going to be in England. We will give you that assurance, but nothing else than that. Someone

else is going to write it. Someone else is going to do this, this, that or the other. If you're JK Rowling, you can probably get all the caveats you want and all the money. If you are a more unknown writer, then the more money you get, probably the less power you have over it. And the more power you want over it, probably the fewer choices you have of who's going to power you want over it probably the fewer choices you have of who's going to adapt it where where it might go and you know, you might choose to take no money upfront and to Control that piece of IP all the way through. I was just thinking that But Fleishman is in trouble that was great written by Taffy Brode-Saracno who as people who listen to this podcast might know I think is the best writer in newspapers

She writes profiles for the New York Times. But she, when she sold that for adaptation, said that it had to be a condition that she was allowed to write the script. She was a first time TV writer. She hadn't written a TV show before, but she said, I want to be able to write the script. And they made a great show of it actually.

I sat in so many meetings where people said, of course we will let you write the script. And I just, I had to say, I'm so sorry. I don't know, I'm so sorry. I'm writing the next book. I don't know. And also there's so many great script writers out there that I do. So yeah, it really depends what position you're in with the Thursday Murder Club. I'm just trying to think through if they there are certain changes that they would make that you would be consulted on. Certainly, if you made it in America rather than England, that would be a thing plot as I understand it, the Thursday Murder Club movie is based on the first book but it's not entirely the same because you

have to change things is the truth and to have me looking over their shoulders every five seconds telling them they couldn't do this and they couldn't do that I think would be hard Chris Columbus who has made Thursday medical also made the first two Harry Potters he talks about that process and about how involved JK Rowling was and so you know he he's happy doing it either way but I think it's more fun for a filmmaker to have a bit more creative control. Okay here we go Sean O'Neill would like to say when do actors get paid Richard? If you're filming a series that takes several months you'd hope some is paid when you're cast or actors PAYE or self-employed? Are actors PAYE

or self-employed? Finally someone asked the question. They are they're self-employed? Our actors, P-A-Y-E, are self-employed. Finally, someone asked the question. They are self-employed actors. Answers to the question, when actors get paid, is one of those beautifully lovely prosaic things that make you understand that acting is like a piecework job. Actors get paid like most people used to get paid, which is once a week, at the end of the week,

they'll get their money through, but only when filming has started. Not because you can't trust actors, but you can't. So if you are signed up for a big new adaptation or a big new series, and you know how many weeks you're doing and you know how much money you're getting paid, they will, however much you're doing in any particular week, it will be broken up weekly,

and at the end of each week you will get, if it's a 12 week shoot, you will get a 12th of your money is what you do. So every Friday at the end of each week you will get if it's a 12 week shoot you'll get a 12th of your money is what you do so every Friday at the end of a filming week you get your cash which is such a lovely kind of prosaic way of getting paid you always assume there's like a million deals and people get paid this at the other I've talked to Oliver Slinger at independent he's one of our great actors agents represents all sorts of people and he was saying exceptions to it would be if you're doing a role where there's an awful lot of say martial arts training you have to do before you start filming or something that you have to do something unusual that you have to do, you might get

paid before production starts because of the extra work you're putting in. So but even then quite often not quite often you will do two months worth of training and you don't get paid your first bit of money until the first week of filming is finished. You certainly not getting money upfront. So you know, when you sign on to do something, they're not suddenly paying you. If you're signing on bonus, there's absolutely none of that. There's no, we're holding back half your fee to the end of a run. You know, it is literally you get paid weekly. If you are, the only difference would be if you're a theatre actor, you will also getting paid at the end of rehearsal weeks. And also you're getting paid a lot less. But yeah, essentially you get paid at the end of the week.

One, you get paid at the end of the week your engagement fee. So you know, you're signed on for however many weeks for a certain amount of money, you get that. Then of course you get your residuals, which used to be a huge deal, which is when something goes out, the money you get for every time it's shown, which in the days of big residuals deals and DVDs would be a lot of money. But that would be, I mean, that can be six months after a show goes out, it can be a year after it goes out. In fact, some companies will literally pay them out twice a year just for anything. So

that money is not coming through for a very, very long time. And it's certainly not as much as one used to get. The big difference is some actors will get a back end on a deal. The most famous one, of course, was Alec Guinness, who did Star Wars for not a huge amount of money, and he negotiated, I think negotiated 2% of the gross of this movie. Which I told them quite well. Yeah, and at the end of it, George Lucas gave him another quarter of a percent just to say thank you for doing such a good job. There's a great quote from Alec Guinness in his diary. So he's done Star Wars. On May the 27th, he says, splendid news of reactions to Star Wars continues to come in.

On June the 30th, he says, I'm pinning my hopes on Star Wars percentage, which could bring me a hundred thousand pound or more if it does Jaws business as predicted. Well, it did an awful lot more than Jaws business. And he made 9 million in that first year alone. Hats off to Guinness, well. And he made nine million in that first year alone. Hats off to Guinness, well deserved. He made nine million in that first year alone.

He's made nearly a hundred million dollars since. So that's a good thing to be pinning your hopes on, isn't it? God. Wow. But yeah, they get paid weekly, actors and at the end of the week as well. Do you know what? That absolutely speaks of lack of trust in actors

and also quite right. It's just because, you know, I mean, that you can't, you know, you can't pay them for next week because they're just not going to turn up. Here's one for you, Marina. Virenu Deshi asks, with many of the soaps broadcasting multiple times a week, has there ever been a time when the wrong episode was broadcast, such as Wednesday's episode was accidentally broadcast on a Monday? And if not, what safeguards have been in place to absolutely make sure this never happens?

Okay good one I'm not aware of it happening in the soaps although I agree it would seem that it was most likely to but there are two ways in which episodes are broadcast out of order accidentally and on purpose we will handle accidentally first. It used to happen sometimes when international broadcasters get the rights to something, there's somehow less care taken and they would be putting the wrong tape in. A few years ago now, not that many years ago, E4 didn't do the final of Married at First Sight. They did the penultimate episode twice. Everyone was logging on and wanting to watch it with

their second screen. I think people are a bit annoyed about that. It used to happen a bit on US cable. It was just different standards to the network supposedly. There was a funny one, the Helmut Kohl's 1987 New Year address to the German people, Chancellor Helmut Kohl. They aired the 1986 address and it ended with saying, you know, happy new 1986. His party accused the state, the sort of national broadcaster of sabotage and said, you know, I cannot imagine that an editor named Chance or a technician named Mistake, blame, it takes sole blame for this incident. On purpose is in a way more interesting. A lot of things are filmed out of transmission order for various different reasons, you know, location or you couldn't get all the people to get together for

the ADR, which everything has ADR, as we've said this before, you know, little bits of dialogue to actually make it make sense in the edit. Sometimes they strategically, and writers are often really annoyed about this, because even with story of the week type shows where you think oh like there's no continuity here it doesn't matter they put everything back exactly you can do that in something like The Simpsons which is where it's a sort of joke that everything returns to exactly the same as before but even on things like Star Trek actually there were small developing things there are reasons that people that executives do it and writers tend to hate it. You might want an action prologue for a series so you think, oh my god, do I have to sort

of chew through all the origin story of this or can't we just start with a big bang? Start with episode two. And then we'll put, yeah, start with episode two and then we'll go back and we'll have how they all got here because that's quite slow and boring. Quite a few series have done that and the fans end up noticing and really hate it. Sometimes they might think, oh this episode's quite spooky, can we have this and put it near Halloween? Lots of series do that, you know, we already know this. I think that some wrestling has occasionally been heard in the wrong order, which making it even less real than it ever was. But in general, it does happen quite

a lot that things, sometimes it has sabotaged whole series. I think there was something that the Jonas Brothers did for someone like Nickelodeon or the Disney Channel or something like that. And they aired every, I think every single one but one was aired out of order with some executive. But it's very hard if you're a BBC or something and a show belongs to you and is delivered to you in the same way it's been delivered to you for 25 years. And every single one of these things has a like sometimes you'll see the little clock you know occasionally before a TV show which you never see on air but that clock has every single piece of information you want it's also got digitally embedded information as well so it's very very very

hard to make a mistake however as you say if you bought in a show from abroad it might be slightly yeah sometimes in Iceland they're going to show the good wife in the wrong order for summary but it tends not to be there are that wasn't say I mean obviously Helmut Kohl's new year address was quite a big cock up I'm people still talking about it I don't know it was a shit you know think about it I can imagine how identical it must have been just three years later the wall came down coincidence I don't know that's what we got time for I think but we have a bonus episode tomorrow for our triple-a members and last week I was able to tell you about my favourite of a fictional TV detective,

that episode is available if anyone wants to join up, but tomorrow you're telling us all about... 20 years since Tom Cruise jumped all over Oprah's couch, what that pop culture moment meant for both Tom Cruise and indeed for the culture. And for the culture. And for the world. It was very much his Helmut Kohl moment. And that's therestsentertainment.com if you want to sign up for that. So we'll see you on Friday, but otherwise I'll see you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday. The End