The Rest Is Entertainment - Prince Andrew: The Disney+ Era

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

Can clever contestants bankrupt a show? Could Stacey Solomon be the next star of a Ryan Murphy epic? Why is Simon Calder always on BBC Breakfast? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer your questions on the world of entertainment and offer a few pitches to the folks at Netflix. The Rest is Entertainment is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain's most awarded energy supplier. Sponsored by Lloyds. Learn how to avoid scams and protect yourself. See how Darkhorse Anti-Fraud Technology helps keep you safe from fraud. Search Lloyds protect yourself from fraud. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at ⁠therestisentertainment.com ⁠ For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to ⁠www.goalhanger.com ⁠ Video Editor: Louis Mealing, Adam Thornton & Josh Smith Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Emma Jackson Exec Producer: Ami Bennett Filmed at ⁠www.westdigitalstudios.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, cinema always really wants reality to cooperate and ideally on schedule. But it often doesn't. Nature is often the biggest enemy of the filmmaker and all sorts of film sets, often out in the open, often on very tight schedules. But the weather doesn't always make things easy, right? No, filmmaking is often a negotiation with the natural world, and there's probably only going to be one winner.

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and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on espresso.com. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restors Entertainment, Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, listeners. Thank you for all of your questions. What should we start with? I really like this one about Ryan Murphy. Now, we know who Ryan Murphy is, but just as a primer for anyone who does. slightly forgotten for four seconds between his many, many shows. He does horror anthologies and things like that,

but he's done a lot of true life stories. The OJ trial. The OJ trial was the first one, which was very much loved. Then he's done a love story about Carolyn Bessette and John F. Kennedy, Jr. And there's lots of other true life stories that he's done, the Truman Capoteus and his swans, all sorts of ones. And the question from Sarah is, if you could choose one quintessentially British love story or scandal for Ryan Murphy

to work is magic on, which would you choose? Such a good question, isn't it? I love it. I already know what my answer is. Oh, do you? Yeah. What's yours? Well, I've got, I want to hear yours. I'll start with Joe Swash and Stacey Solomon. I've got a huge amount of time for this. But don't you think? Yeah. Because, you know, you can start with, you know, Joe in EastEnders, you've got Stacy on

X Factor, you've got the ups and the downs, you've got your reviews and song contest, you've got all sorts of stuff going on there. Got sort your life out. You've got their lovely reality. She shows together. Pickle Cottage. Pickle Cottage. And just, you know, the people sort of surrounding it. And of course, you know, suddenly got Rylan as a character.

And we can go through Ryland's story as well. I just, you know, because you've got Joe Swash, you can... Absolutely made for a standalone bottle episode four, Rylan's story. Just let's come out of the story for a second and do Rylan. Exactly that. And, you know, with Joe Swash, you can get into the Danny Dyer universe. Yeah. I mean, it's from those to the tentacles of all of British culture,

absolutely. I've got a more serious answer for one of that I think would be amazing. But that's the one I would actually enjoy watching the most. But what would yours be? Well, mine, and it will perhaps come as no surprise to you, but although I don't think, okay, is the grand knockout tournament? It's a royal knockout. Oh, yeah. By the way, I've actually done, I think I've definitely done a treatment for this as a drama, actually. By the way, hit me out, Ryan. I suddenly remembered I've actually done that.

I completely forgot. Yeah, I've done a treatment of this. Are you pitching something? Is this bottom draw stuff? No, because I'll tell you what, he would absolutely not understand any of this. If you don't know what this is, by the way, I think we did, did we do two bonus episodes on this. I think we did. Two bonus episodes on this, one of my absolutely passionate special subjects, is from 1987

and members of the royal family, apart from Charles and Diana, but the younger members, Andrew and Fergie, Prince Edward, Princess Anne did with celebrities, and the roster of celebrities is incredible. A version of It's a knockout, which was a kind of, you know, lots of physical challenges. They all dressed up. It was poured with rain all day. Prince Edward ran it. It is a massive fiasco.

I genuinely think it is like, I know I say a lot of things are as big as the abdication, but it's massive. It's bigger than the abdication, isn't it? In terms of a crisis for our family or what kind of fans out from it. By the way, about at least two of the people in it are picked up by Operation New. true in subsequent type. I mean, you know, it's the forward and back of it, like all these Ryan Murphy things.

Obviously, we know what happens to the artist, formerly known as Prince Andrew. So there's lots of interesting things in it. My worry with Ryan Murphy is that he, by the way, I don't think young British audiences can understand that this, how the hell this thing actually ever happened, all was aired on television. Gary Linneker is in it.

Oh, yeah, Gary Lineca is in it. So there could be an episode towards the end where he builds a podcast empire, and he's just like what he's got a big, that cigar and like a fedora and he's just walking through one of the podcast studios and like we could be in the background doing our podcast. Okay, I definitely want parts for us in this. That would be good, really?

Yeah, I was hoping, yeah, I mean I was hoping to play like John Travolta when he's dressed as a giant leak, but because I could get away with that thing. It could be, like anyone could be in that costume. Anyone could be, exactly. And yeah, so there's a lot. I think that Ryan would fail to understand the quintessential Englishness of it, which would be difficult. but he could get British writers to do it.

I really think there's... Can you think of any British writers? What, he's done a treatment for it? I don't know. Who knows absolutely everything about the show? I tell you what, if I come up with someone, I'll let you know. By the Netflix should do that. It would be so amazing.

It's so hard to explain the cultural moment of it. The Crown were too good to do it. They thought they were too good to do it. It's like, by the way, you're not worthy of doing this. Well, rivals had a little crack at it. Yeah, rivals does do a version of it in the last season scenes do. But you could definitely do an eight-part thing with every British actor ever. Yeah.

Just absolutely chewing the scenery as John Travolta and Meatloaf. And the royal household sort of knowing that it's a really bad idea. And the Queen saying yes to Prince Edward because they didn't want to know what to do with him after he's out to leave the Royal Marines, you know. And loads of foreshadowing stuff from Andrew just saying stuff where you just go, oh, okay, that's a reference to what's going to happen. It's so, I mean, there's so much in it. And Charles and Diana refusing to be involved. There's such a lot in it. But anyway, yeah, it's only the show that series 5 of the crown could have been.

Right. What's yours? You're serious. I would say only from watching Celebrity Traitors, there's a really, really interesting connection there that hasn't quite been made, which is Roskamp, hero, the way he dug those graves. Ross Kemp, of course, was formerly married to Rebecca Brooks, who ran the son and lots of the news international parts of that empire.

And Jerry Hall used to be married to Rupert Murdoch. And Rupert Murdoch and Rebecca Brooks have this incredibly close relationship. It just feels to me like the Ross Kemp, Jerry Hall, Rebecca Brooks, Rupert Murdoch, that sort of, that feels very, very ripe with things. The timelines don't overlap, I don't. think. Do they not? I don't think so.

But foreshadowing, foreshadowing. Foreshadowing. Foreshadowing. Uh, okay. So, yeah, but,

hmm, but now they overlap. So you begin with celebrity traitors. That's where you start. Okay. And it's like, and they just.

And then 15 years earlier. 15, exactly. And we, and we get to that. Yeah, exactly. Well, we'll see,

we, 15 years earlier. eight years earlier, like six months before that, eight years before that. And we tell these love stories, but they're all in each other's stories. Anyway, it feels to me... Oh, I like it. But it feels to me like Jerry Hall and Ross Kemp must have a lot to talk about. You know, so here's what I do.

You don't have to talk about your personal life on celebrity traitors, which is why a lot of people are drawn to that format. Yes, that's true. But imagine like a task where you do have to be buried with one of the other contestants. And it's Jerry Hall and it's Ross Kemp. And due to technical difficulties, they're there for eight hours. You can't shout Huggis. You can't shout Huggis. So we begin.

Yeah. Hall. In the coffin. Kemp. In the coffin. Right. Production person is saying, guys, really, really sorry. Just issues with the mechanical digger.

We're going to be about eight hours. And then them saying, what are you? we're going to talk about for eight hours. And then we have the whole story of News International. I love your dissolve. Yeah. But the whole story of News International, told via Ross Kemp and Jerry Hall.

In a coffin. Yeah, in a coffin. As a mechanical digger failure. Yeah. With someone playing Claudia just every now and again saying, are you okay down there? I've heard of, come and get me please to Ryan Murphy,

but that's got to go immediately to number one. Come on, man. Get on a plane. Having heard your, it's a wrong knockout pitch, I think I would go with that. before I went with mine. But mine you could do very, I was going to say mine you could do very cheap because it's just in a coffin,

but then of course it isn't because actually almost all of it is not in the coffin. Yeah, I mean, quite a lot of it isn't. Yeah, you're right. That's bad production knowledge for me. But do you know what, Sarah, that's such a great question. I'll be thinking about that for the rest of the day because there'll be a lot of other ones that I'd like to. But it really will be.

Can we revisit that next week? Other great British love stories or other great British scandals that we'd love for Ryan Murphy to ruin. Thanks, Sarah. A question for you, Marina, from Kevin. He asked, do subject experts get paid for media appearances? Since the Man City verdict was leaked on Friday, sports and news reporting have been dominated by football finance commentary. In the last three days, Kira McGuire, Professor of Football Finance at Liverpool University, has done 47 different media appearances.

Thanks for doing that work for us, Kevin. Do they get paid? If not, why do they do it? Yes. He's brilliant, by the way, and we'll get to him in a minute. Kiran McGuire. Yeah, really good. The answer is a slightly boring answer in that it's sometimes.

Sometimes you get paid. It varies. Sometimes you have a fee. Sometimes you do it for exposure. And there's lots of different ways. And quite a lot of it is basically done on the producers deciding whether or not you get one. Yeah. Or often if it's like a rolling news, you wouldn't get fees because you're bringing people in all the time.

Or if it's a show with guests. If it's a show with guests, if it's rolling news, you still can get paid a fee. And people sometimes do. Quite often they do. But it's, it depends. It's not enormous. But if you've got, say, an unfolding story and then a university professor will do a Zoom with you, maybe not because exposure is judged to be, you know, they've got a book out,

and you'll plug your book on the Aston at the bottom, the sort of strip across the screen saying, you know, in this case it would be Hira McGuire, author of also, you know, he's brilliant on football finance. But one-offs are quite often unpaid, but as I say, producer discretion. Kira Maguire is a real specialist. He is a specialised in football finance. He does a podcast about it with Kevin Deaff. I don't know if you've ever listened to that, but it's very good, call The Price of Football.

He is the full deal. You are getting very reliable quality with him. He's a good broadcaster and he's very knowledgeable. So I think, I'm not saying he's paid for all 47. I don't know if it's possible to have actually counted all the different ones. I think that's amazing. If Kevin has done that. He's done a huge number.

But people make themselves go-to pundits. And he, for sure, is your go-to pundit on this. And you want to be that person who is the first port of call because journalists are always in a hurry and they need to get, you know, especially on these rolling news channels, they want to get someone on. There are certain people that you'll always hear or see in stories. The IEA are very good for a libertarian angle.

People like that think... The Institute of Economic Affairs. Yeah, think tanks like that make it their business to be available, to show up and give a quote. They're not going to take appearance fees. Yes, that would be for free because they're a business. And so, you know, they consult people. And so the more they're on the media, it's just, it's an advert for their business.

If you've got a PR story, you will see, have seen the name Mark Bukowski about a thousand times because he makes himself available. And he will comment on it. And he will provide sort of details. Quotes, there's a criminologist called Professor David Wilson that you'll see very often. You know, but there are sort of oceanographers and microbiologists. You want to be the person that when that type of story breaks, they will send them. the bat signal up to. Who do you think the ultimate one of those, I suppose. Who would you class as the ultimate one? Like someone who's always called on. Okay, I'm going to write down

a name. You're going to say it, and I'm going to write down a name here. Okay, what name if you come up with? Hang on, the EU of introduced new border system. Is it Simon called a travel expert? The benefit of the cameras. Simon called her. There you go. The goat. He's the goat. He's simply the goat. He is phenomenal. And he's, he's He, by the way, has got regular births on lots of shows. He was at The Independent. He made it his business to be the go-to expert. Yeah, travel consumerism.

Quite literally, it is his business now. But as we've seen, there's been quite a lot of stuff about fake AI experts, obviously not in rolling news. That would be quite hard to pull off. But I'm sure they will be able to do it quite soon. But in written news, and there's been quite a lot of scandals about people who've just been completely invented and don't really exist.

but if you're one of these, or I was just thinking, what would I say to someone who thinks, hang on, I know a lot about this subject and I'd like to become someone that they draw on, I would say it's quite simple. Producers like guests who are very clear, not arcane, they don't think that in order to demonstrate

that they're an expert in something, they have to use all these kind of terms of art that actually no one normal knows. They're kind of accessible. They answer the question. They don't particularly digress. and they're personable. You know, people want, you are still providing a form of, you know,

you want to make enjoyable or accessible or interesting content. And lots of people do set themselves up and think, well, I would like to become someone that can be drawn on. And obviously, it is, you know, Christmas time for Kira McGuire right now with a Manxie story. But anyway, if you haven't listened to his podcast, which he does with the comedian Kevin Day, the Price of Football, or it's so well informed.

You can see why he's become the guy, as I say, that they send a bat signal up to. Well, that's the thing. Doing for the first time is hard. Doing for the second time is easy because you do it once and you're good, your phone will never stop ringing on stories like this. I'll say the other things you might need,

good Wi-Fi. Yeah. Because you need somebody who's going to be there. And the biggest, the absolute bet noir of all rolling news producers is like lines dropping out and, you know, having patchy reception. But yeah, if you are any sort of academic, If you write blog posts or if you've written any sort of publications that are Googledable,

then the second that something happens in a weird area, you might come in. And the first time you're in, if you're good, you will be called on forever. The other interesting thing, you know, as you said, if you're the IEA or something, you go and do it for free. Or if you're one of the pollsters, you do it for free because that's your business. If you're an academic, they will often do it for free because lots of academics, I'm sure, listening now. You are judged on a number of things in academia.

one is your teaching, one is your publications, and one is impact. And impact is how many people are you reaching? And it's genuinely a thing if you're an academic. If you say, look, I've been on BBC News, I've done ITB News, I've done this, I've been on BBC Breakfast. You know, that actually adds to who you are as a member of faculty. So if you are an academic, actually broadcasting and being on national television is very, very useful for your profile them for your impact, you know, within your institution as well. So lots of different reasons why people would do it for free.

If you've got something like what the papers say or something that's slightly more formatted, you will always get paid for that. But yeah, a lot of the experts you see are doing it because it's sort of, it's good publicity for who they are and what they do and the other strands of the career that they have. Also, it's quite cool and fun to be on TV. It's quite good to say to your colleagues, oh my God, I'm going to be on BBC Breakfast. because, you know, your mum's going to watch, everyone you know is going to watch.

Your friends you went to school with are going to suddenly WhatsApp you and go, did I just see you on Sky News? And they go, yeah, yeah, I'm afraid you did. So lots of reasons, right? Lots of reasons. Right. Shall we go to a break? I'd love that.

This episode is brought to you by our friends at Lloyd's. Now, let's talk about movie con artists. Who are your absolute favourites? Movies, TV and book. my answer is the same, and it's Tom Ripley. I was going to say him. It's one of the greatest characters of all time. So from the talented Mr. Ripley books by Patricia Highsmith,

there's five of them. So if you like talented Mr. Ripley, you are in luck. He's like one of the worst men in the world, but you absolutely root for him at all times. Now, of course, deception makes for excellent entertainment on screen. In real life, when it's your bank account being targeted, the charm somewhat disappears. Yep, Lloyds have invested 100 million.

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Steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away, then take the next exit. Let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty. Your donations help the United Way fight poverty in thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at United WayGT.org. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with the coffee plus range infused with functional benefits.

Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on nispresso.com. Welcome back, everybody.

This question is absolutely made for you, Richard, from Phil, who says, ITV can't have people winning five figures every day. So in order for the chase to succeed financially, the chasers need to win the majority of the time. Are the Beast, the Governorate-At-L, played extra when they win? What would happen if one of them went on an unprecedented losing streak? I mean, yeah, it does feel like a sort of sporting event a lot of the time, the chase. And there's a bit of what Phil is saying is,

absolutely right. I mean, if you went on the chase, if every day the contestants were winning and winning big numbers, it would be, it wouldn't work for that budget. But, I mean, the truth is a tiny bit more prosaic, which is every single one of those shows you do that has a variable jackpot. Okay, so it's not a show where at the end, so something like point this, you know you're going to give away a thousand pounds per episode, a little bit more, and if they don't win it, it goes. So you exactly know what your jackpot is, but with something like the chase, who wants to be a millionaire, a million-pound drop, you don't have that control over your jackpot.

So what you would have at the start of a series is you would work at a rough algorithm of how much you can give away. And so how many winners that would take? So the Golden Elevator is the new show I'm just doing. We knew, of course, eight episodes what we had per show in the budget to give away. And you try and hit that if you can. When you're doing eight episodes, it's slightly harder because you might have a couple of outlier episodes. But if you're doing a show like The Chase where you're doing 150, 200, a year, you know that the law of averages will help you out.

If you've designed the format in a certain way, if the questions at a certain level, you know, in the same we used to know on deal or no deal because of human nature and how it's played and the maths, you know what the rough average is going to be. Some weeks would be much bigger, some weeks would be much smaller, but there's always regression to the mean, you know exactly what it would be. What Phil's picked up on here quite rightly is that there is a factor in the chase, which is different to other shows, which is the contestants are playing a against somebody who are the chasers.

And if the chaser suddenly got worse, the algorithm changes. Now, they don't get paid more for winning, less for losing or anything like that. But they have to keep up their level of consistency. And if you, you know, look at someone like Paul Sinner. Paul Sinner versus competitive quizzing all the time. He treats it like a job. And Paul Sinner knows that if he suddenly got 30% worse at quizzing, then that would become very, very apparent to the viewers.

but it would have become apparent to the producers a long time before and that would probably be it for him and he wouldn't be on the show because the whole point of the show is you can beat the contestants X amount of the time you know that's the job

and so all of them they're not on performance related fees but they would all know that if suddenly they became not particularly good quizzes then the show doesn't work because the show is about playing against incredibly good quizzes so no they don't get performance related bonuses

but they're paid very nicely and they know that it If they don't keep up their standard, then that job goes and they won't be being paid that money anymore. You know, they bring in new chases again. You need new generations for new quiz questions and stuff like that. But it's absolutely all of those shows, you know exactly how much you can give away. You work out a sister, work out your format so that that is what you give away with the chases. One of the bits of that system is those people have to still be incredibly good at quizzing.

So while they are... I'd really watch the drama. Like an anthology drama where it happens to someone and they just have an unbelievably bad patch of form and they're driven into dark places. It feels like an inside number nine but not inside number nine. But like when a footballer loses a yard of pace, that but for a chaser.

I'd really watch like just one, you know, a sort of contained episode where that happens to a character and they have to do. But I've told the story before when we did a million pound drop and we knew how much we had to give away an episode, let's say it was 80,000 or something like that was in the budget. That's the line item in the budget. And the very first contestant on the very first episode got to the final question for £450,000,

which is essentially, I think we were doing 10 episodes, essentially like a good 60% of our entire series budget on one question. And they got it wrong in the end. But that was one of those moments where the jeopardy for the people actually playing at the jeopardy for, in fact, Tom Blakeson, he just been doing golden elevators with me, I think he was more scared than the contestants. But as you say, over 100 episodes, you can absolutely control it. Over eight episodes, it's slightly harder and you have to hope for the best.

But if you do have to massively overpay, then ITV and the production company will cover that. So the contestants don't lose out, but the production company and the channel are like, okay, if we are going to do this again, maybe we need to have a little rethink. Of your algorithm. Of your algorithm, exactly. If you look at the actual chasers, if you look at their stats and there's all sorts of places, you can look them up. It's clear they need the chases to win somewhere around three quarters of the time. They all sort of group somewhere around that.

Actually, right at the top, Anne Hegety, the governess, is got, she's nearly 80%. And after her is Jenny Ryan, Paul Sinner and Dara are all really around 75. 76% as well. Sean Wallace is 71%, but they're all somewhere in that level. So you can tell by that, you just look at those stats, you go, you can work out exactly what ITV's algorithm is by that, that they need the chases to win 75% of the time. They need the contestants to win 25% of the time. And that's exactly how they work the money out. And because they've done so many, they've thousands of episodes, they can absolutely nail that down. But if you drop below 70%, words would be had, I suspect. Question now from Alice, Netflix had just released its new Wonka Competition Game Show, and I'm curious as to who holds the IP. It seems to be sponsored by the Wonka confectionery brand, but it follows the Rol Dahl story and is similar to the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory film and more recent Wonka film. So what's the IP situation there? Yeah, I mean, I have a look at this show if you haven't had a look at it yet. It's interesting.

Wonka confectionery is owned by the Ferreiro Group, who bought it off Nestle. And that is separate to the Roldahl Story Company, which is the thing that, Netflix bought in 2021. But they do have a global partnership around wonka of products and entertainment. So it makes sense in the case of this particular show that they're working together. I mean, I would quite like to talk about this show if you have a look at an episode of it. It's sort of snuck beneath the radar. There's an element of squid game-ish to it, you know, because you live there and what have you.

People talk a lot about like, oh, will the Bond brand be looked after by Amazon? And there's been a lot of talk about that. Again, under the radar is, are Netflix doing the greater service to the Roald Dahl brand? I would say that in this case, I'm not saying it's as bad as that thing that they had in Glasgow. What was the Wonka experience? Do you remember? Oh, that was fine, yeah. Willie's Chocolate's Experience. But, yeah, touches on a number of matters that have been relevant to this podcast's interest over time.

Do you remember when we talked about Delebs, the dead celebrities? Well, Gene Wilder's voice has been recreated. He was the original Wonka in the original Charlie and Chocolate Factory movie. It's been recreated with permission of his estate by AI, which is somewhat eerie and it feels quite ill-advised. But I suspect that Roald Dahl would have approved of that sort of thing. That feels like something that would happen in the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory books. Yes.

I mean, it's funny. The story of what happened to the Dahl estate is quite interesting. I remember about 15 years ago, Sophie Dahl, who's the model and the granddaughter of Rold Dahl, She went on the Today program. This is like a real mad sort of backlash and said, oh, we're trying to raise 500,000 pounds to preserve the Nissenhart, in which he wrote all the books in his house at Great Missenden.

And there was this massive backlash, which is like, you're quite successful. Also, the Royal Dollar Estate is a very lucrative thing. And, you know, really, would you mind paying 500, yourself? After they sold to Netflix, they certainly have no worries about money again. I would say that Netflix are just going to exploit this any way they can. They've done quite a few things that, as I say, I'm interested that Bond gets all the attention. Like, are they going to, I don't know, over-exploit the brand and make too many things?

This one, I think, could do with a bit more attention. There's a few things that they've done that have been sort of a mixed, I would say, of mixed success. The stuff coming, they've got so many things. They've got Charlie versus the Chocolate Factory, which is an animated feature from Tykeaway. YTT and then I think he's also going to do an umpalumpa series they've got lots of different animations coming BFG Matilda I'm very excited about what they do

because it's got a great cast with the tales of the tales of the unexpected series I think that's going to be really I think the scripted side of things is in incredibly good hands and the great source material and I think it'll be and I think the people they seem to have got involved on different size of that seem to be absolutely great this I sort of see why they did it because it's Squid Game. You know what? If you don't make these properly

with exactly the right people, exactly the right time, they just don't work. There's such a fine line, but maybe there's a big chasm line, but whatever it is, if you know it's, you know where it works and you know when it doesn't. And whilst there were elements of sort of bleakness, as you know, I didn't love about Squid Game, the Challenge, they did it faultlessly, right? Whereas this, it's like, oh dear, okay, I don't love this at all right. And Mr. Beast has done this already, has done its own

version of it. So you can absolutely see why they did it. But, yeah, I'm much more excited for the tales of the unexpected side of things. I love that side of things and people have sort of forgotten about it to a large extent. And it's like having a whole new kind of horror or black mirrorish or something thing that is untapped. But to the central question, the IP, so Wonka chocolate bars are not the same as Roll Dole, but as you said, they are sort of embed together.

So that's why that works. And that goes all the way back to the first Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory movie, which had a large amount of funding from Quaker Oates, who were the people who owned the Wonka Bar. They never actually made a Wonka Bar, Quaker Bar. They sold it very quickly, but they had the rights to make Wonka Barz. So they funded that movie in the hope to sell Wonka Barz. It didn't work for whatever reason.

But it goes to show that very little changes. And Netflix, you're going to be seeing much more of a collaboration between those two entities because they want to do a whole universe. Both these firms want to do a whole universe, both Netflix and Ferreiro. And there will be live experiences and consumer products and publishing and other product rollout. So there will be more of it together. By his Netflix, I'd be getting in touch with Ferreiro just independently and saying, can we do a series called Ambassador, you are spoiling us?

Yeah. Just about a lavish lifestyle of an ambassador based around the Ferreiro Roche franchise. Hi, this is Netflix, your greenland. We're pitching a lot of stuff in this episode. I'm going to say. Some, yeah. Yeah. Some's not going to work.

But some is you've got to take a risk. Yeah. You have to take a big swing. And you can't accuse us of not taking big swings. Ambassador, you are spoiling us. Right. As we said, we are moving to individual reaction episodes to each episode of celebrity traitors. So tonight at about 10 o'clock, you can hear us reacting to episode three. And we'll be doing the same for episode four tomorrow, about the same time.

I literally can't wait. See you then. See you later. Calculating route to avoid seeing poverty, turn left to bypass the unhoused youth sleeping on the street. Then keep right to skip by the lines of people waiting. for food. Steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away, then take the next exit. Let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty. Your donations help the United Way fight poverty in thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today

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