The Rest Is Entertainment - Prince Harry's 'Idiotic' Legal Battle

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

Was Prince Harry wrong to sue the Daily Mail? How did Olivia Dean and Sam Fender make chart history this week? Which pop stars should we thank for the resurgence of the vodka cranberry? Prince Harry and other high-profile claimants have lost their High Court case against the publisher of the Daily Mail. Should stars let sleeping dogs lie over historical allegations of journalistic malpractice? Olivia Dean and Sam Fender have made chart history with their song Rein Me In, breaking the record for the longest-running number 1 single by a British act. But what song might stop them from breaking further records if England wins the World Cup? Step aside, obscure liquers. The new drink of the summer (apparently) is a Vodka Cranberry. So why is the Y2K beverage making a comeback, and what does it have to do with pop royalty Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo? Songs played in the show: Wet Wet Wet - Love Is All Around Written By: Reg Presley Mercury Records Sam Fender, Olivia Dean - Rein Me In Written By: Sam Fender, Olivia Dean, Max Wolfgang Polydor Oasis - Wonderwall Written By: Noel Gallagher Creation Records/Epic Records Recommendations Marina - Madonna, Confessions II (Album) Richard - Widow's Bay (Apple TV) The Rest is Entertainment is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain's most awarded energy supplier. Lloyds. 250 years on and still backing the nation's aspirations. Lending is subject to status. You could lose your home if you don't keep up your mortgage repayments. Conditions apply. 1996 average first-time buyer deposit based on Office National Statistics House Price Index data. Summer sale is here: get an annual membership for a third off with code SUMMER26. That's ad-free listening, every bonus episode, and full access to our exclusive members' series. Sale ends August 31st, so grab it before summer's over. For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Adam Thornton & Lorcan Moullier Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Emma Jackson Exec Producer: Amie Bennett Filmed at www.westdigitalstudios.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, we're going to be talking about an expression which I hadn't heard till seven seconds ago, which is someone getting their flowers. Can you tell me what that means? Well, it means like you've been around a long time, but people suddenly think, hang on a second, you're amazing and you should be recognised. So you're finally getting your dew. You're getting your flowers. And you're being garlanded.

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about the location instead. The bright Mediterranean colours on screen suddenly make the British weather look even greyer. And sometimes it doesn't even take the technicolor, put on a black and white thriller set on the Italian coast and I'll enjoy the mystery, but part of me is already working out which flight gets me nearest, preferably with less identity theft and bluer skies. For me, it is Greece. Once the rumours started that a certain star started musical was returning to the islands, that was all I needed. I was thinking about departures. With EasyJet, you can travel to over a hundred destinations across Europe, with flights from just £32 one way, and they've got package holidays from £39 per person with thousands of

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probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia, feel good from the inside out. Visitactivia.ca for more details. Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osmond. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina. How are you?

I'm all right. Still hot. How has your week been? Outswina, great. Went to Wimbledon on Sunday yesterday. Whoa. It was epic. I hear there's another royal box.

Guess who was in my box? Who's in your box? Martin Short, Steve Martin and Merrill Streep I met the producer of Only Murders in the building is a big listen to this podcast Hello Jess, he was wonderful Oh my God, that's amazing

Yeah, it was epic I mean I love Merrill Streep and I love Martin Short But Steve Martin Come on Wow Yeah Oh that's amazing

Okay for on air stuff I have a gift for you as well No Which is Troop of my new novel We saw murders No not we saw murders we chase out, it's the follow-up to we solve.

This is so exciting. I've been absolutely, okay, to the camera please, I've been so dying for this. I really need this. I need to escape significant portions of my life at the moment, and this is how I'm going to be doing it. I'm so excited. It's out on September the 15th. And these are proofs, we talked about that before, which is you send out to a few

to reviewers and things like that. Yeah. And to, you know, significant people in one's life. Okay, I'm so excited. Enjoy. This is great. Whenever you go on, like, this morning or something, you always have a publicist with, like, five copies of your book, and that all they do,

is put them up, like face up like this on the desk and then the producers come and then just put them down. Just a little dance. What are we talking about this week? We are talking about Prince Harry and others have lost their phone hacking and illegal interception of information and bugging and things like that case against the mail. And we're going to be talking about that,

what it means. It's kind of an end of an era for lots of those things, but I would like to talk about it because I think it's very interesting. I would like to yourself because it seems quite opaque and I've been waiting to get your take on it. We are also going to talk about the most successful UK song in British chart history. Do you know what it is? You'll find out what it is, I guess, in the second bit of the show.

But it's a shocker, but also about what happened to, you know, that culture where everyone knew every song. Yes. And we're going to be talking, I love this one, about drinks of the summer. What is the drink of this summer? And why do we have the impression that there is one? Yeah. And also, why is there more money in that than any other industry we ever talk about? Let's start with Prince Harry and the male.

There were various claimants in this case. It's Prince Harry, Elton John, Doreen Lawrence, the mother of the murdered black teenager, Stephen Lawrence, Sadie Frost, Liz Hurley. And they accused male newspapers of obtaining private information far unlawful methods between the 1990s and the 2010s broadly. And it's been going on a long time, right? And Harry was looking for really significant damages

and also just for some vindication as well, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as you know, there have been. other cases. This one alleged phone hacking, bugging homes and cars, using private investigators, obtaining financial and medical records illegally. And the crux of it, if I can describe a crox that turned out to be made of jelly, was that specific male stories, cited mail stories, were based on these methods. Now, Prince Harry and others, as you know, have had, which will get,

to you have had other cases against newspaper groups, which weren't based in that same way on specific articles. He's won a phone hacking case against Mirror Group. He got a settlement and apology from News Group newspapers who published the Sun and once published the News the World. So that was more about proving there as a culture of it at those organisations. And this is here is a specific story. This is a different way of going about it and we'll get into the weeds of it in a second. Suffice to say, it was a three-month trial. The kind of overall costs for all parties, both sides, is maybe 50 million. It's insane. How is taking anything to court so expensive. It's unbelievable. It obviously involves huge teams of lawyers, whatever. I mean,

lawyers are very, very expensive. And they lost. And the judge, who's Mr. Justice Nicklin, said that the suspicion was not enough. They didn't prove their case at all. And there were unreliable witnesses, which we'll get to. Prince Harry and the others came out and said straight after this is a complete and obvious whitewash. Oh my God, I'm going to come to the wisdom of that or otherwise in a minute. Because you're not supposed to say that. Well, let's get to it. Before we go on, I would like to say that I have absolutely no, in fact, I know, I have absolutely no doubt that there was phone hacking of individuals. And I think on the balance of probability, these individuals, some of them have already obtained settlements from other newspaper groups.

I'm not suggesting which titles did it, but it did occur, but not provably in these cases. Other cases have been proved. The fact is, they just failed to produce convincing evidence on any of 97 counts. Now, that is a genuine horror show. Was that 97 sort of individual stories that they were saying that they had, presumably, they could argue what had been derived from that, and they had evidence to back that up in court. But they didn't. And they did not have a case.

And the indictment from the judge was just incredibly damning. And I mean, you know I've said there so many times on this podcast before and say it to anywhere one, you know, never litigate, basically. It is, unless there is absolutely nothing you can do bar litigate. And in this case, the claimants seem to have been gingered along, whether by lawyers or activists. No pun intended. Yeah. Lawyers or activists or whoever. And I do think that if you are any lawyer in any case,

case, a decent thing to do is to make the person you're representing aware of the risk. Others got out. You know, someone like Hugh Grant, who is arguably, you know, I mean, not even arguably, it's a lot cannier than Prince Harry, got out because people realise that if they don't win, then their libel for all the costs and it can sort of bankrupt you and it's just not worth it. And so you think it was obvious it was a leaky sieve right from the start? Okay, there are certain things that happened that I would say what on earth happened with a preparation here. There was a thing where Prince Harry was kind of sniffing to one of the lawyers. You know, I've never been to a carnival.

I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, oh, well, it's in your autobiography. You know, this is like, okay, the decent thing to do is to make people aware of risks. David Sherburn, who was the leading lawyer in this case and in lots of the phone hacking stuff, not a QC, not a KC, quite interesting when someone who's been that long in the public eye, It's not in a casey. But I will say about phone hacking that it was investigated incredibly poorly, most particularly by the metropolitan police,

for reasons upon which many of us can speculate. That would be won for the rest of its history in 50 years' time. Yeah. And it is becoming very historical this. Hacked off, who is the sort of campaign against, you know, campaign for press standards, and they've got various sort of leading lights of it, They got a guy called Graham Johnson, who was a Sunday mirror self-confessed phone hacker. In fact, I think, you know, when he saw his colleagues being arrested, he volunteered, voluntarily confessed to the police.

And he recruited a guy called Gavin Burrows, who was some, you know, kind of C-Beast, private investigator. It's a good name for a private investigator. Yeah, I mean, take a look at him. It's like, it's absolute central casting this guy. Gavin Burroughs. Gavin Burrows. Yeah, it might as well be called Steve Delves. Yeah.

Gavin Burrows was a private investigator who seemed willing to confess to carrying out all kinds of crimes on behalf of the mail. And I think he ended up getting paid 5K a month by people investigating on behalf of the litigants. And he said he'd hacked them and bugged them all at home in places that he'd been in places they'd visited. He and Graham Johnson eventually fall out. And then he switched aside. Gavin Barrow's switch aside, completely disavows his earlier statements that are, you know, by this point, you know, part of the evidence. Well, presumably they're the smoking, they're the real smoking gun. Yeah.

Well, he detonated his credibility, obviously on purpose. And now says he never worked for them. Again, I want to come back to the victims because all of these people, I believe, I know, have been victims of phone hacking. Many of them have been involved in other settlements, whatever. And I have absolutely no doubt that they're completely traumatised and remain traumatised by those years. And in the way where lots of us have had bad things happen to us, you can carry on blaming it for lots of other things in sort of perpetuity. And it obviously gave rise to enormous paranoia amongst people who couldn't understand. And some of them lost friends because they thought they were leaking, all those sorts of things.

The judge did say that some of them were prone to reconstruction. And it is that sort of thing of being in the rearview mirror and saying these things happened. Well, if a judge says you're prone to reconstruction, I mean, that's because they're so polite. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was, the indictment was like nothing I had read for a long time. It's really damning. And again, I think, you know, they've been led from behind by campaigners who will not be paying for this. Right.

So we're going to have to go for the cost now because, as I said, I think people estimate that the overall thing is 50 million. Now, Associated, which is a newspaper group that owns the mail titles, they are, from all the briefing that you're reading now, or you can see now, and from what I've heard, they're going to go for the removal of spending caps, because they've said they're going to go, someone said they're going to go for the jugular. There's a hearing.

So what does that mean removal of spending caps? It means that there's certain, they have limits at the moment on how big the payout can get. Because these cases, we've tried to try to limit the cost. of things in our legal system successfully sometimes and other times not successfully. There is a hearing in a couple of weeks where the same judge is going to hear representations as to why, and probably from associates to why we want, you know, the claimants to be left with 50 million in bills. The litigants, those litigants did have, the claimants, they had

a level of indemnity insurance, which you can take out insurance. I think they had some sort of Guilford-based firm and they've got a level of insurance which will take you up to say 14 million say that's an estimate. What I call a Guilford-based firm. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's quite a specialist thing to provide, you know, indemnity insurance on this stuff. But it's nowhere near 50. Having said that, again, I mean, talk about bad advice.

Your conduct after a trial matters. This is why when people come down the steps of a courtroom and they say things like we're incredibly disappointed in the verdict, this is fine. these are emotions. You can have feelings about this or that. Instead, they attack the judges. There's a statement which attack the judge's integrity. They sort of suggested that he was part of, you know, party pre, effectively, you know, crooked and that they hadn't been given justice. And who would have signed off that statement? Is that the litigants or the lawyers or a bit of both? Well, they've all, I don't think actually that the litigants, I think that that has come from some of the claimants. on behalf of all of them.

Certainly it would have come from Prince Harry. But I think that there are many in that legal team who understand that it was a stupid thing to do. It is so incredibly dumb and self-destructive to attack the judge afterwards when you could be on the hook for these enormous costs. And also, the insurers may say, well, I'm so sorry, you've voided your insurance

because what you did was so incendiary and so, you know, whatever, that you've effectively pushed them into removing the spending caps because, and in terms of who will pay, you know. And how much? And how much it will be Elton John and Prince Harry, because they've got the money. Well, Elton does. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know about Prince Harry's finances. We know so little, but he's, I mean, I don't think he's ever struggled, but the way he likes to tell it. He's a church mouth. Either way, if you're paying 25 million and that's, you've got to be Elton. That's going to make a dent, isn't it? So anyway, in terms of what the takeout for our should be, I think for sure phone hacking was massive and widespread and never properly punished in terms of the people who did it. Other than financially.

Now, it has cost these titles so many countless hundreds of millions to defend. They have been absolutely hit where it hurts financially good. They deserved it. But News UK alone, they think, have taken more than 1.2 billion in losses. Hundreds of millions have been paid to victims. We don't know how much because many of them settle privately and whatever. I mean, an unbelievable amount to lawyers, as always, as he said. But for me, you know, that period is over.

Okay, life is not perfect. As I say, lots of individuals melted back into journalism, into executive positions, into very senior executive positions who knew about this stuff and allowed it to happen. But it is what it is now. And the thing that gets me now most particularly is that journalism is really under threat. Look at Nigel Farage's address last week when he's going after specific journalists, specific titles. We know Trump has done every single thing in his power to attack press freedom. Nigel Farage last week was saying, you know, look at what Sky News have done.

And if you actually look at the footage, Sky News have come to a. property, which I wonder, we don't know, maybe it's in his name, and they've just knocked on the door. That is legitimate, okay, that is a legitimate inquiry within our politics. I care far more about press freedom in the here and now than I do about, I'm sorry to say, about phone-hacking, which, as I say, the titles have been hit where it hurts. The balance is now tip. We have we have weirder money than ever in our society and our politics, and we need the press to investigate. this would have been a real, I think this would have been very, very difficult for press freedom. And, you know, who investigated Farage, certainly not hacked off or Prince Harry, right?

Journalists did it. In fact, phone hacking was originally investigated by a journalist, by Nick Davis at The Guardian. And you've now had, I mean, just going back to Farage, you had two stories in the last very, in very short order. one from The Guardian, which found the matter of the 5 million donation from this Thai-based crypto-billionaire. And if you can't trust a Thai-based crypto-billionaire, who can you trust? Then what the hell? Then you've got the Sunday Times and Times doing various things now.

The donations that Farage has taken from this convicted fraudster and his mother of indeterminate funding sources, you might think that's pretty quick for two stories to come up. Maybe there's more to come. But the people who will investigate it, I have to say, will be journalists. And you don't see that. I mean, people need cover showbiz stories now. They just sit on people's Instagram accounts.

And it's not done in the same way it was at all. But I do think these are really dangerous times in terms of freedom of speech, press freedom, and massive amounts of unexplained money in our politics. And now more than ever, I think this should be the line underneath it. And people should get behind anything that throws. daylight on anything. And I'm sorry for all litigants in these cases. Many of them have received payouts. I think people know what happened, but it is over. And I think that it's becoming quite difficult to support, you know, a prince versus a business which is trying to expose things that

are wrong amongst our. This was an institutional failure. Let's be really honest. This was a massive institutional failure phone hacking but I think it has been put right as much as in an imperfect world I mean it's because listen I absolutely agree with the thrust of what you say but in terms of the 19th century novel of this whole thing

is Harry will never get the closure that he wants he wants someone to stand up there and said we wronged you we did it deliberately this is what we did and you can see you know why you know where he's come from that will never go away for him but I don't think he's ever going to get that closure, right? No, he's never going to get that closure and it's, you know, it's a, if it's too crass to do the sort of pop psychology, but yeah, it's not, it's never going to bring

a back, you know, it's really, it's really awful. And I feel very, and without any question, these people were victims of it, but I think the sort of leading from behind needs to stop, because the times have moved on now and we have to move on. And amazing journalism is being done about some of the most vital issues in our society. And I think that I'm pleased that we haven't ended up with tighter controls on press freedom as a result. So do you think there's ever going to be this Leverson 2 inquiry, the follow-up to the first one?

Do you remember that Kevin Costner movie, Horizon? And he said there were going to be four parts of it and the first one fell off the screen. And the second one he pushed out. Okay. Horizon 4, you are more likely to see Horizon 4 than Leverson 2. Can I just say all the way through that? Because that was fascinating. So thank you for that.

But all the way through, I was thinking that I said the phrase, a leaky sieve. And I was really angry with myself because, I mean, of course, a sieve is leaky. I mean, if you had a non-leaky sieve, you'd take it back. Yeah, I mean, hopefully someone will take us to court just for you doing that. But really, the case was a sieve. Yeah. Or a leaky bucket. Yeah.

Yes. But not a leaky sieve, which would be a great case to take. Yeah. I mean, otherwise big sieve will come after you and you don't want that. Big sieve is a great name for it. character. A private investigator? Big Siv boroughs.

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A very British type of optimism. Yeah. But part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable. And that is what Lloyd's is dealing with right now. Yeah, last scene in 1996, Lloyds are now offering 5K deposit mortgages to first-time buyers. Search 5K, first-time buyer. 1996 average first-time buyer deposits based on O&S data.

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Only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Welcome back, everyone. Now, Marina. Would you like to take a listen to what was until this week, the most successful chart song by a UK act of all time? I'm most certainly worth. Okay, it is this. You might recognise it.

Wet, wet, wet, with love is all around. So catchy. Everyone at home is now, despite themselves, singing along. They're continuing it. We know it came from four minutes and a few. on 1994. In the end, they had to stop pressing the song because everyone got so annoyed with it. Part of our culture, I would say. Absolutely part of our culture. Very few people who would not recognise that song or sing along to that song. Now I'm going to play you another song,

which some people would have heard, but I'll bet there are other people who haven't heard, and this has just overtaken Love is All Around as the most successful ever chart song by a UK act. 16 weeks at number one for Ramey and by Sam Fender and a Olivia Dean. It's got some musical similarities to Love is All Around, but I love Sam Fender, I love Olivia Dean, that's the two of them together, 16 weeks at number one. I would say, absolutely, it's a great, great song. But fascinating that it beats Love is all around, and yet it's not a song that I would say is absolutely the heart of our culture. Yeah, it's not like one of these songs that, like, I don't know, things like Wonderwall or like

New Rules or Adele things that just suddenly just seemed like they've taken over. over the world. It doesn't have that feeling and I know you're going to tell us why. Well, yeah, well, we will get on to Wonderwell later actually. But yeah, what I really wanted to think about, because of course when Wet Wet We're number one and when Brian Adams was number one with everything I do, I do it for you, which Raymian has just tied with. But of course, Brian Adams is not from the UK, but Sam Fender and Olivia Dean might break his record next week as well if they stay at number one for another week. Now Wet wet Wet and Brian Adams sold physical singles. To go into a shop, you had to physically actively.

buy one, whereas Sam Fender and Olivia Dean, we now live in the age where streaming is a huge part of how a song gets into the charts and how it stays in the charts and why songs stay around for quite so long. The actual story of Raymian is fascinating and tells you everything you need to know about streaming. So it was Sam Fender's third album. It was like track eight on his third album. It was the sixth single release from that album. And by the way, Sam Fender sells a lot of physical copies of his albums. People buy physical versions of Sam Finder's stuff. And he's also brilliant. If people don't know him, genuinely, he's fantastic. But that song, as I say, sixth single from the album, went into the charts at number 86 in its first week. Olivia Dean was on tour with him. We talked

about this a little before, came and sang it with him. And then she and one of her songwriters wrote a verse. They released that. It's about the breakup. We should say it's about the breakup of a relationship from the kind of guy's point of view. But she added a kind of of rejoined her and that is what has... From the female point of view, which really, really, really works. And they clearly have enormous respect for each other. And Olivia Dean is now so, you know, she was supporting him and she's now so Uber and enormous. It's a real juggernaut.

And it's a really lovely song as well. But it took 36 weeks to get to number one. That song took. It's amazing. It's now been number one for 16 weeks as well. It's been in the charts for over a year. And these are things that. didn't used to happen.

When we had physical singles, you know, the first sort of four or five weeks, you know, you'd get the odd song like Wet Wet We're sort of Brian Adams that would stick around for three months, but nothing else. As you look at the charts now, you know, as it was by Harry Stars is still in the top 75. I mean, these things hang around. Number one songs stay something like three times longer than they were in the 60s. What's interesting, but I will probably get to this in a minute, but there's much more churn down the bottom.

That has never been more churn filled that section of the charts. But at the top is... It creates sticky hits, right? It's deep streaming. And it's why we don't have top of the pops anymore because it would literally be the same songs. I think the highest new entry in the chart this week is like number 38 or something. I mean, it's just the charts are not what they used to be.

I think it's interesting. So it made me really think about streaming because streaming came in 2014 and started counting in the charts. So I wanted to look back and try and pinpoint the exact date at which streaming killed physical music. I love you for doing this. And I have an exact date written down. I did a couple of things.

So firstly, I looked at the top 50 best-selling singles of all times. So those are the ones that physically sold copies, right? Which is not something we really look at now. And of those 50, there's one was from the 1950s. That's Bill Haley in the comments, rock around the clock. There's only four from the 60s. The three of those are the Beatles. One of them is Ken Dodd.

In the 70s, we have eight of them. You've got things like Bohemian Rhapsody, Muddokintyre. You're the one that I want. with us of Babylon, that kind of, you know, era when songs were getting, sort of hung around for a whole summer. In the 80s, we had 11. You got things like Band-Aid, Relaxed last Christmas. 90s, we had 15.

So it's really, you know, ramping up. You would think that that's the point. So we were really still buying a huge amount of music, physical music, vinyl music, CD music in the 90s that you got Barbie Girl, you've got Brian Adams and Wet, Wet, Wet, you know, Britney Spears, things like that. In the 2000s, there's only three. Black-eyed peas is one. Will Young is one.

Then 2004, they start including digital downloads in the charts. So digital downloads still counts as a physical copy of a song. Because you are paying for it. And once you pay for it, you own it. Okay, so you've got people going into Woolworth's than buying, you know, a vinyl 17th single. But you've also got people literally physically buying music from 2004. Apple music or whatever it is. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And that brings a huge glut of million sellers in the first part of those, from like 2011 to 2014. How about this for a run of songs? You have got Adele, someone like you, 2011. 2011 moves like Jagger Maroon 5. 2012, somebody that I used to know, gotcha. 2013, happy by Farrell, one of the top 10 selling singles of all time. Blurred lines by Robin Thick, Get Lucky by Darth Punk, Wake Me Up by Avichy, and then 2014 Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars. I mean, that is an absolute sort of, what a golden era. They were all selling over a million there because that was the prime time of digital downloads. So not only were you, there's still some physical music being bought in shops, there's also these digital downloads.

But when did we stop buying music at all? And that era of 2011 to 2014 is the absolute key. Okay, there's the complete key. In 2011, when Adele was at number one with someone like you, when she sold over a million. Spotify had fewer than one million users. Okay, fewer than one million in 2011. In 2014, when Uptown Funk, this period of three or four years were these huge sellers and people paying for music, literally paying quite a lot of money. Giving money to artists. To exchange for something. When Uptown Funk was number one, end of 2014, 75 million years. users. So just those three years have gone from under one million to 75 million. And what happened in the middle of that is in 2014, the chart started letting streaming in, so from 2014. So Uptown Funk in

2014, after that, after Uptown Funk. So we've had, you know, eight songs in those three years, which are amongst the 50 best-selling singles of all time. How many do you think since 2014 have been in the top 50 best-selling songs of all time? Zero. Not a single one. Uptown Funk was the last ever, the last ever one. After this incredible run, and literally just six months after streaming was allowed into the UK charts as well. Also, I love the fact that your notes, which I can see, though, not read, literally look like you've killed them well again. Yes. You've really got into this. I'm like Charlie Day. It's always sunny in Philadelphia. No, I really, really did get into it. And more to the point with Uptown Funk, not only was it's the last ever song to be in that top 50.

it also was the first song ever to have 2 million plus streams in a week, the first song in UK chart history. So it was the last song ever that people actually bought, and it was the first song ever that people really started streaming. So the day that got knocked off, number one, I'm going to say is the day, the final day, when streaming finally beat. The selling of music died.

Not the day the music died, but the day the selling and music died. And that was the 8th of February 2015. So 8th of 20. Wow. We have not had a single song that has been in the top 50. If you look at the streaming charts, it's fascinating. And almost every song is after that era, almost every song. To the extent that.

So you've got the 50 best-selling songs of all time in the UK. Yeah. You've got the 50 most streamed songs of all time in the UK. You would think there'd be a fair bit of crossover. Some of the biggest songs of all time, you would think there's a fair bit of crossover. There are only two songs on both those lists. Wow. One of which won't be there for long because it's Avici Wake Me Up, which is number 50.

Yeah. Even let's assume that was this month's figures, but next month that probably won't be on there. So there is only one song in the history of UK chart music that will be very soon that is in the 50 best-selling singles of all time and the 50 most streamed singles of all time. Do you know what that is? What is it? It's the song that beats everything before it is Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Gosh. Yeah?

Okay. Yeah. That's pretty impressive, isn't it? It is. So what happens this week? So Ramea might beat Brian Adams this week. Is that important? Music is different to how it used to be, for sure.

We don't have the monoculture we used to have, that's for sure. But this is how we measure the charts. And this incredible song, where these two incredible artists has... Yeah. And it's, by the way, and we've spoken a bit before about how the charts are done, it's very, very hard to keep at the top of the charts these days.

Because they try and handicap you basically, so that you don't... There is some movement. Yeah. But, you know, it's an incredible achievement. If so, if it can be Brian Adams this week, it'll be 17 weeks at number one. I think possibly it might not. I think it might be knocked off the number one this week.

And it all depends on what happens in Atlanta on Wednesday evening. Would you like to have a listen to the song, I think, might be number one this week and scupper that record? The unofficial anthem of the England World Cup team Well that was and is a cultural phenomenon Never got to number one when it came out Now that to me is something that you just heard Across the country And it just felt like everyone was in its grip

Incredibly catchy Sort of a cross between a ballad and a rocker Yeah It's become this anthem That they're singing at the end of every England game If we go out then it will fall off a cliff Just like Christmas songs do On the 26th of December

But if we go through, I say we, England, go through, then that might scupper, Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. They'd probably be happy about that anyway. Yeah. It'd be quite a nice thing to lose to. And that is, funnily enough, on the list of the 50 biggest selling singles of all time. And you never know, could just get onto that list of top streamers as well. Got to get to like three and a half billion. Although it doesn't feel like the sort of achievement that it was when the Wet, Wet, Wet,

did it and Brian Adams did it. I just think it's a different type of achievement in a different generation. and I think it's a great song and I think if you worry about modern music you look at the entire recorded works of Sam Fender, you look at the entire recorded works of Olivia Dean and we're in pretty good shape

but I've really really enjoyed looking back through the thing but yeah. That's amazing. Eighth of February 2015 is the day that people stop paying musicians to buy their music. It's also fascinating how many, like how movies just sold songs

like both of those other two songs are sold off the back or four weddings and funeral, which obviously became a phenomenon, and Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it had Christian Slater in the video, so I think that's probably what sold the song for me. But even happy.

What happened to Christian Slater? What happened to Christian Slater? Oh, my God, he had an incredible run for like the late 80s and early 90s, and I loved him so much. I could do a whole bonus series on the guys who were on my wall. I mean, big time, but I'm Christian Slater, I would like to give some proper attention to. I loved him so much.

So you would like to give some proper attention to? Yeah, I would. Yeah, I mean, that was the point. You know, that's why they're on your war. Sorry, that's the reality. God, I knew this chart chat would end with Crystal Sater. Sorry, I just couldn't keep a lid on it. Yeah.

He's in the video. I can't believe actually Kevin Costner or his agent allowed him to be in the film with Kevin Costner with that dreadful hair. But I think Kevin Pocosner at the time thought he was in his imperial phase and nothing could disrupt him. Yeah, I'm very Sylvan Roast looking forward to Horizon 4. Perhaps Christian Slater's in that. Where are you, Christian Sater?

I love you. But anyway, congratulations to Sam Fender and Olivia, Dean. And yeah, keep a lookout. they break Brian Adams record next week. But I have a sneaking thought that Wonderwall might do it. I think if we win against Argentina, it will do it. Oh, we all want Wonderwall to do it because it will imply something else. Yes, that's true.

Apart from San Fender. Well, maybe Sam Fender would as well. I think probably everyone's on board with us. Nice to play some music on the podcast. Yes. We should do more of that. Yeah. Much more music.

Yeah. And, you know, maybe even the videos. Yeah. And talking about interactivity, we don't have any interactivity in this next section, which is about the drinks of the summer. Perhaps we should have done. It's a bit early. It is a bit early.

Okay. The drink of the summer, as I say, what is it? And why do we have a notion that we have one? There are obviously always fashions in cocktails. I find cocktail wars the only acceptable form of identity politics. And winter had a sort of drink this year with the dirty martini. And like lots of people sort of talk about it, mention it. I can't do a dirty martini.

Oh, I love them. I don't like olives in my non-alcoholic meals. I don't like him in my alcoholic meals, which is what they call drinks. Your alcoholic meals. I love them in my alcoholic meals. So some of the drinks of the summer and so on are about marketing. In fact, marketing is a huge part of all of these things. Apparel spritz, let's just get it out there because this is the case in point.

Apparel spritz used to be like a cheap sort of kind of rock space bar drink, backstreet thing. I came from Venice originally. And it became this sort of cocktail. They changed everything. They changed, they buy the umbrellas. They changed the glasses to this big, Loon thing. Campari acquired, I think, in 2023. But by then it had already become huge.

It's like it's the pulled pork of alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. It's, what's amazing about April is that it is low alcohol compared to lots of other similar things, even Campari. So you need, this is so great, you'd love this. This is the license to print money because you need a comparatively high volume of it in the drink. So you might put 25 mils of something else in a drink, but an April Spritz has got 45 mils of this thing. So it's, so it's, so you. So, you use more and more of it. Oh, it's an absolute banker, okay. But it did slightly change people's taste because it's a slightly bitter taste.

So this summer, okay, what are we talking about? Hugo Spritz is big. That Saint-Germain liqueur. Now, people front the brands, you see. So Sophie Turner is the face of that. Market research has forced me out to be going to start like twice a night for about the last 50 nights. And you see masses and masses of Hugo Spritzes. Hugo Spritzes are everywhere.

And that was quite an obscure liqueur, the San Jermain. I've been building that for a long time. It's very, very impressive. Yeah. Yeah. They've been building it. Remember, the visuals of drinks are very, very important. The platforms have completely changed our material world.

What people loved about apparel was that it was orange. It looks great. Photographs really, it's got to photograph well. Hugo Spritz also look good. But remember, and also it's part of sort of trend culture, because people buy and post pictures themselves with drinks because they're able to post it. It becomes a kind of in-group signifier. It's an identity signalling.

It's not about necessarily fancy cocktails, but it's about showing who you are and sort of, it's a form of fashion. Yeah. Aparel spritz is almost perfect because it's not fancy. It feels artisanal. Yeah.

And it feels kind of, because it does come from Venice and it, you know, it's sort of real drink. As you say, it's in that beautiful schooner, so it photographs well. And it's sort of, it tastes okay. Yeah. But the taste is very much the last part of that.

But it's bigger than Kampara. spritz because canst is a bit too red. And it's people find canparo quite better. It's quite medicinal. But I think the actual drink of the summer. First of all, I'm going to do alcoholic and non-alcoholic. Alcoholic, the vodka cram. The vodka cranberry, this was invented by ocean spray.

Lots of, you know, ocean spray, of course. Really? It was invented by ocean spray. How can you invent that? Well, you've got ocean spray. It's just for putting some juice in some vodka. Yeah, you're a juice company. You need to put yourself into a cocktail.

You need to become a mixer. And they invented it in the 1940s. They called it the Red Devil, a little bit of an unfortunate name at that time because of all the Red Scare and things like that. But these Hugo Spruits is, yes, you're seeing the Mebara. But Vodka Kran, first of all, people think it's Taylor Swift's favorite. Olivia Rodrigo's new album, there's a track on it called Expectations, which contains the lyric rocking a mini dress with a vodka crann and an open heart.

Okay. Conan Gray did a whole song called Vodka Cranby, which he did at the VMAs. Again, it is a visual drink. But it's also in a time where, like, actually, people are starting to ask, you know, when you just get stuck behind, my most unacceptable thing is when people offer, order coffee and a pub, it's like, I'm sorry, this is going to take so long. Yeah.

There are other places for this. But you don't want to get stuff behind in the queue by someone who wants on these complicated drinks. This is a basic, like, serve it to me. By the time they've, you know, made your friends drink, you can have another one. Pre-can it. Yeah. That's an easy one. Oh, my God.

Well, canned is beyond. Canned is like this completely explosive market. Cans of wine, huge now. Yeah. And it's got Y2K of K of. vibes as well, the vodka crann. It's got what vibes? Y2K, you know.

A Y2K. Why is Vodka Kran got Y2K? It has because it's a sort of thing that people before, you know, people went mainstream with cocktails and things like complicated things like that. We didn't use to have cocktails, did we? No, but that's, it's a drink in a mixer. It's very simple.

It's simple. But for Jenny. I have never seen you so energized on an item. Yeah, don't worry. I'm going down to the night. I know. What nourishes me also destroys me. Yeah.

It's so interesting to see. Yeah. I mean, just a peek behind the mask. I've got to run it and I'm too old. You're poor kids. Let me get down to their generation's drink. The Gen A, the mega, mega drink, is from Starbucks. It's the strawberry assay lemonade refresher, okay?

This thing is beyond the status drink. It was started first by teens. They customize it a lot. It's very interesting. You'll be interested in this. Okay. It's part of like little treat culture. It's like kind of, you know, it can be expensive.

But it started by sort of cool teens. And then like Laboos or Stanley Carps, it becomes what they were imagined to be basic. So it lowers down the age range. But Starbucks used to not appeal to teens at all. But they only started in 2012. They started doing colour drinks, but crucially, they did cold drinks. And then 37% of the drinks they used to sell were cold. In less than a decade, it was 75%.

Okay, it is massive. This drink... Is you saying 75% of drinks that Starbucks sell are cold? And this strawberry assay lemonade refresher is absolutely huge. You can't move for it on, you know, people posting pictures of it. I call it a self. Okay. Yes, yes.

Yeah, it's a salar. Yeah, yeah. No, salla. Oh, yeah, that's bad. The salar. Yeah. Salah, yeah. I call it a mo.

A moh, yeah. It's a moh. Again, has to photograph well. But these teens and tweens are all on drink talk. They customize it in millions of drink talk. They customize it in millions of ways. They let, they think it's ASMR, the noise of the eyes. They have their first sips.

And Starbucks have really lent into it. God, I bet they have. Yeah. I would. And also of being a place to hang out because they didn't have places to hang out. You know, the other thing is something like matcha, which is now an entire aesthetic, that kind of green ombre. I can't get with it.

Especially every single matcha shop has Matcha the Day written. Yeah, yeah. It's worse than hairdressers now. But I've never hated the hairdresser puns, but there's something about the matcher ones that's really irksome. There's something that's come off Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, which is beyond. It's called the Dirty Soda.

Okay, and it's a fizzy drink with cream and syrup. there's like 90 grams of sugar in one. Wow. Yeah, that is a big thing, okay? Dirty soda. That would be my rat name. Yeah. It would be my private investigator, no.

But, okay, so that is, so I think it's the Vodka Crown because actually that's the sort of advanced one, but the sort of lower level, the things that people are discarding because they think they've become basic are things like Hugo Spritz or whatever, and the strawberry assay lemonade refresher

will be going down from the cool teens to the, tweens now like the boobos did but there's so much money in it it's it's unbelievable some of the biggest companies in the world are drinks companies in their various iterations i mean so it's it's one of this things where for every sort of fun little photo of you know the sunlight through an apparel sprits there's like a multi multi multi multi multi multi billion industry these people are paying to be your we all pay to be their influencers it's it's it's unbelievable and the same with the tweens and the same with their drink talk and then shaking the eyes.

They're doing all, everyone works for free for these companies if they get it right. I went down to see Ollie Smith this week, the BBC Wine expert who I love down in Sussex, which now is like the like wine country, like champagne was 30 years ago. I said, we got to invent next year's summer drink, Ollie. Oh my God, I really want you to. Yeah. What would you invent? Well, are you something like British, right?

Yeah. Because we have amazing, you know, the sparking wine in Sussex. Yeah, it's got to have that in the same. And then like, well, maybe find like some sort of. neglected English lookier from summer. Yeah. Yeah,

but it's, I imagine it's harder than it sounds. It takes longer than it sounds. Given that all the people who currently have the drinks of the summer are all multi-billion dollar corporations, and it's just me and Ollie. Sitting there with a drink going,

I'll tell you what we should do. If anyone can gain the system and work out and drive himself mad, is the person who made those notes about the number ones. About the number ones, yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy can do it. I believe in him.

Any recommendations this week, apart from alcohol-based ones. Apart from continuing to burn the candle at both ends. Yes, somebody has now had number one albums in five decades, and it's Madonna. I really like Confessions, too. I think it's great. It's a great pop album. It's really good.

Okay, and we talked a bit about how the film is probably never going to happen, but in a way this album is sort of better than that. It's a way of it's looking back on her career in lots of ways. There's lots of callbacks to stuff. It's really good. But she does just have this. cast iron belief in her own exceptionalism and strength. And where's the lie?

I think I really like it. Really good. Excellent. I'm going to recommend on Apple Widows Bay, the Matthew Reese show, which is sort of like a comedy horror, but it's really good. And anyone who's ever wanted to write or anything,

what's the first 10 minutes of that and see the world setting and see the character setting? It's so beautifully done. Matthew Reese is amazing. Finally enough, we've got a question in the Q&A about why there are so many British actors in Hollywood.

And I had a really, really, really interesting chat with a casting director about it. So we'll deal with that on the Q&A. But Matthew Reese is amazing in it. It's really, really smart. It's written by Katie Diphold, who wrote Parks and Rec and all sorts of things. So I really, really love that. And it's also just, like, from nowhere, just got a whole load of Emmy nominations as well. I can absolutely see why. So Woodo's Bay on Apple's really, really, it's kind of funny, quirky. It's a bit scary, bits of it. But it's, you know, the humour kind of overrides everything. Now, can you please tell me what your World Cup of is?

this week. Yes, it is, and I've been looking forward to this one very much, the World Cup of UK quizzes. Oh my God. So we got everything there. I thought I thought I thought a disturbance in the force. We got the chase, we got pointless, we got who wants to be a millionaire. We've got the lot, mastermind, uni challenge. I'm talking to John Robbins, amazing Adam about it. I really, really, really loved it. So that's available to members from tomorrow. If you want to be a member, go to the rest of entertainment.com. We'd love to have you. But equally, We love everyone who isn't a member as well. We love you all equally.

And we'll be answering your questions and the Q&A on Thursday. So see you then. Bye. Hello and welcome to Doing It Anyway, a brand new series from Goalhanger. I'm Cathy Kay. I've spent years studying the science and art of confidence, writing books about how we can close the confidence gap between men and women, and talking to experts and younger women about how to pass it on.

Confidence means taking risks, acknowledging your faiths, fears and, well, doing it anyway. In this series, I'll be talking to psychologists, entrepreneurs, and business leaders to unpack how you can rethink challenges and grow your own confidence. We'll talk about how to spot the difference between confidence and competence, how to deal with office politics and stolen credit and, yes, handling rejection, and ultimately how you can become a better leader, teammate, and yes, a better person. Doing it anyway with Katty Kay, every. Friday wherever you get your podcasts. On July 16th, the Hawk lands on Netflix.

From the mind of Will Ferrell. Oh, Mama, I'm back. Come in a new original series. Get ready, get ready. That's it. Did I stutter? When an iconic pro golfer. Lonnie.

Hawkins! Takes one last swing at greatness. You were a big shot golfer. I still am a big shot golfer. No one. Dad, I'm the Hawk now. Will stand in his way. That's how it's done.

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