The Rest Is Entertainment - The Beckhams vs The Peltz: Class War

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Do regular people care about The Beckham Family Feud? Is Robbie William better than The Beatles? Is Alan Carr the hardest working man in showbiz? A week on from Brooklyn Beckham's bombshell Instagram story, Richard Osman and Marina Hyde assess the damage and ask the important question: why was Becks at Davos? Robbie Williams' newest album 'Britpop' has topped The Beatles UK no1 record, but will it last? Richard has thoughts. Alan Carr is currently fronting eight UK television shows - how does he have the time? For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Adam Thornton & Joey McCarthy Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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AI builds the deck so you can build that thing. Learn more at Adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restors Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osmond. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm all right. I'm all right. Listen, we've got over last week and the amazing end to the traitors. Really excited about celebrity traitors.

Very excited that last week you did a podcast all by yourself about Brooklyn Beckham. I missed you. You know I did. But it was like, here's the interesting thing. And you know I've been in this business a long time. It was phenomenally successful. So where does that leave us? That's my only question. What is it that I'm giving you?

leaves me craving my conversation with you today, which I'm happy to say is we're going to be able to still talk. We're going to talk about the big Beckham questions. We're going to talk about more because, yeah, and I have a few things I would like to. I was going to say a few things I'd like to add. I have nothing I'd like to add, but I do have a few questions I'd like to ask. We're going to talk about Robbie Williams, who last week became the most successful artist in UK album history. He's now got more number one albums than the Beatles. We're going to talk about why and whether that's quite as impressive as it sounds. Very impressed with it himself. Also going to talk, about interesting moves in the world of kind of talent.

Nigella going to bake off. Yes, and we're going to talk about Ann Ankar's latest moves. So really we're doing like a celebrity special. We're doing the Beckham's. We're doing Robbie and we're doing Alan Carr and Nigella. So a nice, lovely, shall we? There are delightful bits. I mean, the meme drought is over.

Oh, thank goodness. Our long nightmare is over because the internet exploded with memes of Victoria Beckham, how she might have danced at Brooklyn and Nicola Peltz's wedding ended up going to number one on the iTunes chart an old song of hers Not Such an Innocent Girl I'm David Beckham was at Davos

Obviously I mean that was As you'd expect The first question we have to say is The idea that nobody cares about this story Can I just put that one to bed Because I saw so much of that Can I raise that every time Yes because I am

Having listened to your podcast Which I absolutely adored And promoting it on social media Which felt very old-fashioned 5% of comments which are who cares and nobody cares. And here's the truth. I don't really care all that much about it. I know.

It just doesn't touch me in the same way that the Johnston Paint Trophy touches me. It doesn't have all the things I'm looking for. But what I am very aware of is that almost everybody else does care. It's done beyond traffic. Unbelievable numbers. Certain things I can see and get much deeper data on, e.g. the Guardian website. And the traffic, when we were kind of hovering on the brink of the annexation of a country or, you know, Donald Trump's endless inching towards World War III, you can't believe the traffic on the Beckham story. And the reason that we care is because it doesn't matter.

The reason you're saying we shouldn't care that this is trivial and it doesn't matter. That's the reason why we do care. There are an awful lot of things in the world at the moment that really, really, really matter and are terrifying. This one, it's got this interesting sociological and psychological sides to it. But in the final analysis, like all sport ever and almost all gossip, it doesn't matter. We can put all of our energies. It does not affect our lives. It does not affect our lives.

And so we like to have a conversation about it. Well, what I thought was quite interesting was I just before we recorded this or a tiny bit of YouGov polling. And I thought that it was so interesting that agreed it was a massive thing that people were obsessed with. But few actively take a side in the split. only 6% a team Nicola and Brooklyn and only 7% a team David and Victoria so that is just like a huge tract of people who are like I don't know I'm just watching this I'm just getting the popcorn out for this one

That is 87% of people just going no just enjoying the show They're quite publicity shy Yeah well when David was at Davos Why you're asking why was he at Davos Just out of interest It can't have just been to meet Rory Stewart He was doing a podcast about regret I can't

Also ended up saying in some other panel thing that children are allowed to make mistakes, which I saw wrongly is reported as a comment on this, which in less in the most possible, a bleak possible way. Who knows, maybe he was there to get a deal to promote Trump's new Greenland like he did with Qatar.

Do you remember before the World Cup? Oh, yes. Perhaps he's going to be part of Trump's peace conference. Is he not on the Peace Board? I am getting rid of Canada and I am appointing David Beckham. Who is doing a podcast about regret in Davos. Whose podcast is that?

Well, everything that's wrong with our world happens there. Lots of the wrong things with our world happen there. You have to have it, I think. But always there are kind of mad celebrity appearances, and there have been for a very, very long time. It's called really terrible hang with Amy Polo. Yeah. Okay, so to get back to the main story of this Beckham

and Brooklyn Beckham's sort of huge six pages of Instagram stories, there seem to be two strands to this, and I would like to talk about both of them. The wedding, which for me he needs to really buck up about. Brooklyn's wedding. Yeah, Brooklyn and Nicola's wedding. And how he feels his life has been managed. But come on.

Okay, what Victoria did? We're now finding out more gradually about what actually happened at the wedding. First of all, Mark Anthony. Can Mark Anthony, a celebrity no one's mentioned for 10 years, Mark Anthony was formerly of the J-Lo Industrial Complex, married to her, And he is very, very successful. And he was very successful, but never made it. He never impinged on British culture.

Anyway, he seems to have been doing some singing at the wedding and also serving as a kind of impromptu master of ceremonies. There was a certain point where we now know, because Fat Tony, the DJ, that the beckons brought along with him, said that Mark Anthony called Brooklyn up the stage, then said, and now for the most beautiful woman in the room, and called Victoria. because, yeah, and said to Brooklyn, place your hands on your mother's hips. At this point, Nicola runs out crying. Now, can I just say, one has to be a bit better about such things in life. I mean, you've got to laugh at these things. I was thinking about the- We all know what DJs are like, don't we?

The weddings. Yeah, they didn't know that your mum and dad got divorced 15 years ago. Oh, my God, have I ever told you about Kieran's father's speech at our wedding? No. Oh, my God, it's absolutely a bit. Still late father. Okay, shine on you, crazy diamond. But we said do five minutes because nobody wants to sit there.

Listen, right? Yeah, type five. Right? Do a type five. He opens the speech by saying, it's great to see everyone here. It's particularly great to see his friend, Ronald, our friend Ronald. Because, you know, when we got pregnant with you, Kieran, we were going to have an abortion. And it was Ronald.

He said, he persuaded us not to do it. Amazing. I was like, amazing. You've opened the abortion material. He then says, anyway, Kieran, you were born in Hollywood, California. I really, really wanted to be there for the birth, but I did a load of amazing acid, and I just was driving around the L.A. canyons

with my friend Paul, we had this incredible drive. Okay, this was all in the first 30 seconds. Wow. He did 26 minutes. Oh, my God. Every single bit of it was like, there was no filler. It was absolutely hysterical. We were crying with laughter.

It's hysterical. It's funny, right? A lot of people I could see were like, oh my God, how is this happening? But we found it hysterical. I mean, you know, I do think in life, Why don't want to have a sense of humour? Exactly.

Listen, Kieran didn't suddenly go on Instagram and start slacking his dad off. Well, my Kieran's very strong, you know. And God knows he's that to be. Speaking the dance for actually, his mother, there was a bit where we had a whorlitzer dukebox. My mother-in-law, we had a whir-litz of a jukebox. You put anything like on. Okay, but you couldn't because if you put anything on,

my mother-in-law simply pulled out the plug, shoved it back in and put the rolling stones back to the top. Nobody. Wow. Oh, my God. It continued. I can't, there are so many bits that I, that I need to pull out of memory holes.

There's a bit where, he said, I want to say that the years I spent with Kieran's mother were the happiest years in my life. I was like, look at Kira, you're going to buzz in now. Literally, I think the last time she'd seen him, she tried to have him arrested at Heathrow. And so many incidents. Wow.

Wouldn't be a wedding though without that, would it? No, but this is funny. Look, you can see, it's 26 years. later and I'm still laughing. And by the way, I was the same age as them. So just, with all her money, I know she can't buy a sense of human Nicola, but I think it would be helpful for them both if they acquired one, but it is perhaps the hardest thing for them to acquire. And, you know, obviously Daddy's little princess ran out during that moment. Almost all the troubles of the world are because the people with the most money want to be funnier than they are. Look at Mask, but...

Yeah, I think Davos isn't a bunch of laughs. No. But anyway, Fat Tony goes on this morning last Friday, and he said, the reason I've come on this morning, because he was there and present, and he did witness this. And he said, the reason I've come on this morning is because it's a safe space. And he said, I didn't talk to. Didn't used to be? No, I mean, all the cultural strands are being woven in here, aren't they? Yeah, it is.

And he said, I didn't talk to my own father in 30 years due to my own misunderstanding of a situation that I made up in my own head. So I would say to them buck up about the wedding, because really it's the brand stuff this is really difficult and interesting and I think that this is the bit why which is because people can see that they've completely commodified their children by the way I believe they completely and passionately love all of their children and I think it's dreadful for them I think in some ways I've been thinking about this this week and this is where I do actually care about this story because it's it's about the mistakes you make as a parent it's about what you try and do the start you try and give your children all of those things but in the same way that some parents will drive their kids to ice skating or piano lessons or anything like that. I do think a bit of them thought this will give our kids an amazing start in life if they have a brand presence. This will be something that they can monetise from the moment they turn 18

rather than give them the deposit for flats. Well, they became famous so young that they can't really see a particularly different way. Do you think at that point when your kids are four and five that they are going to turn into the greatest geniuses the world has ever known and they're going to be insanely talented and they're going to do incredible things by and of themselves. So you're just giving them a slight head start into telling the world the geniuses already. It's only when they turn a bit older and you go, oh, you're just like a normal, ordinary person, but you happen to be world famous.

I don't know. Anyway, I have some sympathy that maybe they were doing it because they thought it was giving their kids a good start in life rather than they thought it drew more attention to them. Or would you disagree with that? I would say that it is always a devil's bargain. Do you see Mark Zuckerberg putting his kids all over Instagram or his platforms? No, you don't. I wonder why. They all know.

You're making money for them. The one thing, one of the weirdest things that you see happening all the time now, why does every celebrity have to wish their mother, happy Mother's Day and all this sort of stuff on Instagram? Just call her, take her out to lunch. I bet you're doing that anyway. During COVID. Okay, I'll excuse it then. I'll excuse a lot of stuff then.

It was my mum's birthday, and I couldn't see it. It was her 80th birthday, in fact, and I couldn't see it. And she was knitting blankets for, I forget which charity, but it would have been a good one, knowing my mum. It wouldn't be for the bad guys. It wouldn't have been pro-COVID, for example. It would have been anti-COVID. And so I did a social media post, and a couple of the famous people liked it and said, Happy Birthday Brenda.

So Nigella Lawson said, Happy Birthday Brenda. I said to my mom, Nigella Larson's done that. And then literally the next day, she foamed almost in tears because Brenda Blethen had wished her happy birthday. So, you know, she'd prefer that than me going round. In my social media, Nuremberg, okay, you've had a carve-out. But otherwise... Yes. Nuremberg carve-out.

But otherwise, it's all about the person doing it, okay? But you can see, but everyone's thinking, because when the Beckham started out, I mentioned this in the little video I did last week, but there were celebrities and then there were normal people. And obviously you have gradations within the classes of celebrities. But now there is this absolutely teeming middle class of influencers, which is sort of everyone. But this is why also there were these huge and horrible sites like Tattle Life

and this is why people spend a huge amount of time doing kind of social media detective work, seeing who doesn't like this or that post. Rather than a lifestyle, it's something they're being missold. They're being missold things all the time. And this is why I think people particularly have jumped on this story. Because it's like you have constantly said, here they all are turning up to the launch of this documentary or that documentary or this fashion show. And actually, you're misselling us something.

And that idea that stars, the people we kind of love and think are aspirational or cool, more interesting are actually just people who missell us things. It's such a prevalent idea of our times. With the royal family and with the situation with King Charles and with Harry, people have very, very, very strong opinions on both sides of that divide. If you said, if you guys did, who's team Charles, who's team Harry, you would have big numbers. But if you ask who's team David and Victoria and whose team Brooklyn and Nicola, as you say, 6% and 7%, a sort of tableau against which we can look at the society that we live in.

and all the things we're talking about now, but no one really cares who wins, because no one's really all that fussed about any of them. Do you know what I mean? David Beckham had huge fans at his absolute height. No one now is like, one of my huge fan of, I guess, David Beckham. It's like he's a former footballer, that's okay, in the same way that Victoria Beckham is a fashion designer

and used to be in a band. That's okay, and Brooklyn Beckham is a, you know, a Nepo baby. I don't think anyone's all that fuss either way who wins. I think everyone would like it to end amicably and for a family to get back together and learn lessons and all those things. But I don't think anyone is really all that fuss about whether one team wins or the other team loses.

And that's why it feels like a nice thing that everyone can talk about. Do you not think? Yeah, I think it's an interesting thing. I do find it really desperately sad. I think all those stories of family estrangement where you don't think the original offence is the worst thing in the world. But we've all lived long enough

and we all have enough friends and acquaintances and families to know this is one of the oldest stories in the world. So it's sad, but it's not like... But there's a wave of it right now, you know? The no contact is a trend. Some of it, I think, is to do with money. Remember, the one thing they didn't think their children would be doing would be the one signing the pre-nuptial.

They thought it'd be the other way around. Anyway, Brooklyn did sign the pre-nuchel. Okay, because he's... Nicola Peltz, just for people who don't know, is the daughter of an incredibly wealthy family. Yeah. He's a sort of activist investor. Nelson Pelt.

He's a sort of financier and activist investor in a guy called Nelson Peltz. else. He lives out in Palm Beach. He's a sort of maga guy. He tried to take over Disney. We mentioned him actually originally for the first time probably ever on this podcast because Brooklyn has signed a pre-up essentially in the favour of Nicola because she's the one with the money and the power in that situation. And they deal with everything with lawyers. I mean, as far as they can work out, Brooklyn, they suit, you know, of course they're going to sack a wedding planner and sue them. That's where lots of this original information about this feud came out. They're going to sack the wedding planner, then they sue. They seem to be in some sort of disson. dispute Nicola and Brooklyn with a dog groomer who I think they believe killed a chihuahua. I don't know. I don't know if that's a breed. From what I hear, I think the Beckham's give Brooklyn a lot of money, but not like insane money. And they kind of have this dream, in my view, a bit of a pipe dream to some degree, that he will sort of stand on his own two feet and become independent.

I hear, and maybe Nelson Peltz would deny this, but I hear that he said to them, I give my daughter's, I give my daughter a million dollar month allowance. why don't you? A million dollars a month? Yeah. Now Brooklyn describes her stuff. Let me do the maths. Is that, what's that 12 million a year? Yeah, even arguments. I don't rely on you for that small piece of maths.

What's she spending that on? Well, I don't know. Brooklyn says that she's the hardest person, hardest working person he knows. I thought you're going to say she's the hardest person to buy for. You think, yeah. She's a hardest working person.

Do you know? About two years ago, she had a film in which written, directed and starring her. Oh, that's right. in which she played a stripper just trying to feed their kid. Yeah. You know, some real poverty tourism there called Lola. I don't know if there's any plans to make another film.

And I think we can work out where she got the funding for this one from. But I'm not... She saved up her pocket money. You know, they've done a couple of shoots for Montclair or this or that. But when I think of, you know, every now and then the UN release those lists of the hardest working people in the world. And it's like the Filipino fishermen, you know, the salt flat worker, the hazmat. diver. I don't think she's kind of rocketing up into the top ten of that one. Never seen her, never seen her on that list. I don't see her nudging out, you know, the Ghanaian loggers and

stuff. No, I don't. But what did he say? Did he say she's the hardest working person he's ever met? He knows. He knows. He knows. He knows. Which is probably true, but he doesn't know any garnet and loggers. No, no. Do they really, one of our final backup questions today must be, do they truly wish to only live privately, Brooklyn and Nicola? Because it's almost as though that word, they've so forgotten, even they have so forgotten what it means, that they put this whole Varaniels on, they sold it to someone and put it all on Instagram or whatever it was. People will be coming in asking now for a reality show. I mean, they'll be a huge, so they will have so many offers now for reality shows. I know that they're being offered,

he's being offered books because obviously they think, will this be enough to do this one post? Yeah. which I think we know it wasn't written by him, will they decide to, he just think, okay, and now I'm going to expand on it all in a book? It's interesting, isn't it? So Harry and Megan, I sort of get because they do have large outgoings and there is a limit to the income that they can make. Because their security is genuinely a massive bail. Yeah, exactly.

And for their children and so on and so forth. So I see their need for money and also their inability to. earn money in a traditional way. But Brooklyn and Nicola, they don't need any money. I mean, they've got all the money they're ever going to need, ever. So, you know, an interesting outcome would be Brooklyn just saying, no, actually, we actually genuinely do want to be private. But they too have forgotten, like almost everybody, what private really looks like, because this is what's happened. It's so extraordinary if you think back, we didn't live like this 20 years ago. Not every single thing was put online and everything picked over and people

even looking, you know, who didn't like it, who nobody lived like this. And to say in an Instagram post, we only want to live privately, when you spend the rest of the time making YouTube videos, when you release all your wedding pictures, the second wedding, by the way, and the first, and you sell the first. I don't even think you know what that word means anymore. Yeah, but you only say on January the first, I want to stop eating biscuits if you eat a lot of biscuits. Okay, well, the proof will be in what they continue to do. And I think that if you think for a second, they understand or want to withdraw from the public eye completely. I don't think that will be the case.

Oh, God, I would. So you started by saying that an awful lot of people on the internet going, we don't care. We don't care. It feels like a story that we should care about. We care about our culture and we care about human beings and what it is to be a parent and what it is to be a child. And it's unfortunate it has to go through the prism of another human being. but they put themselves in that position. You know, through the ages, you know, there are examples in our culture that we can learn from.

This is always the way our world is. We're interested in other people. We're interested in, you know, stories like this. It feels like it's okay to care. Well, it's a cautionary tale, isn't it? It's become a cautionary tale. And I have to say it's one that will definitely run and run, because one of the most unfortunate things that post did was a little bit like Megan

and Harry saying, we're stepping away. If you think you're drawing a line under it, You are not drawing a line under it. They have now almost been mapped semantically onto Megan and Harry. And you saw that there were 30 stories immediately on, say, the mail online about them. It will just carry on until something, until there's a resolution, a further schism, whether a book comes out. It's now a rolling nightmare, I have to say, for the Beckham's, because it's this constant sort of serpent in paradise story. and it's very, very difficult when you have made your brand and your harmony, everything,

for such a public show of disharmony. I find it quite difficult for them. But it's like, listen, never go to war in Afghanistan. You'll still be there 300 years later, right? Yeah. This is, yeah, this is Afghanistan without any question. Yeah. We should do a podcast about regret, but where would we do it?

In the shadow of the Hindu Kush. Really good idea. After the break, should we talk about more fun celebrity stories, A bit of Robbie, a bit of Anandcar, but in my job. Excellent. See you in a moment. At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a cleaning company, things need to be tidy and organized at every step.

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It is Dominic Sandbrook here from The Rest is History. Now, you have probably been watching the scenes on the streets of Iran. You may be wondering where all this comes from. So on The Rest is History, we have just recorded a four-part series on recent Iranian history. So it kicks off with the Iranian Revolution that brought down the Shah Mohammed Razar Pahlavi in 1978, 1979. And it's actually his son, who is now leading. opposition to the Ayatollahs from exile in the United States. So in this series, we explore the

history behind the Islamic Revolution in Iran at the end of the 70s. Where did people like Ayatollah Khomeini come from? Where did their ideas come from? Why did they have so much support? Why was the Shah driven out of Iran in the first place? And what did it have to do with American intervention and indeed British intervention in the 1950s? And we look at the unfolding story of the revolution. and then the amazing story of the seizure of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, the taking of initially 66 hostages by the Iranians. This is probably the story that I most enjoyed researching and writing. So please, if you're interested in Iranian history and what's going on, check it out.

And if you want to Taster, we have a clip for you at the end of this episode. Welcome back, everybody. Now, we're going to talk about Robbie Williams. who's had his 16th number one album. It's nice to be able to talk about Robbie and music again, because we've done the documentary and all that kind of stuff, and we forget he's a musician. On Friday, Robbie became the most successful artist in UK albums history.

He had his 16th number one album. He had been tied for a number of years, in fact, since the Better Man soundtrack went to number one. He'd been tied with the Beatles. That was his 15th. I mean, to be fair, the Beatles had a couple of number ones that were sort of, oh, the best of the Beatles. Okay, fine.

but he now has 16 UK number ones and is the most successful act in the history of the British album chart The album is called Brit Pop Which is pretty on the nose If you listen to it, it's actually not a bad album But Robbie never makes a bad album It's absolutely never does anything that's not obvious But it's nice that somebody is

What about swing when you're winning? Doing that. Yeah, but again, if you like that sort of thing If you want to sort of... He never makes a bad album if you like that sort of thing. Yeah. But if you want a sort of younger Bradley, Walsh, then Swing When You're Winning is exactly what you're looking for.

That was his second biggest selling album of all time, by the way, Swing When You're Winning. That was over 7 million sales. That was back when albums used to sell 7 million, which this album will not. So Brit Pop, you listen to it, absolutely chock full of Oasis references and Verve references and songs that sound like Elastika and songs that sound like Supergrass, one of them written by Gazcombs from Supergrass. So it's a real throwback stuff.

it is he said himself I spent so much time sort of looking backwards because they stopped playing my music on the radio so I didn't really know how to look forward into what I was doing in music so I kept looking backwards so I thought well if I'm going to look backwards I might as well absolutely commit to this thing so he's called it Britpop he will commit to a bit I'll say it after him

he really will the front cover I have to say the front cover is very very good which is the picture of him from glastonbury the famous picture of him in the red adidas or adidas track suit with a bleached blonde hair and the and and the tooth blacked out. It's that in a frame and the National Gallery with protesters throwing orange paint over it

in T-shirt saying just stop pop. That's quite a good front cover. Again, it's Route 1, but Route 1 in a good way. So is Robbie Woodley's really the most successful artist in the history of British albums? And of course, the answer to that is no. He's wanted to have this 16th number one for a very, very long time. He says he wants it more than anything

and that it makes his imposter syndrome come out, but he kind of always gives rain to that and that he wants to, like he just feels like it's my ego and I know what it is, but I know it, I name it, but I still want it sort of thing. So exactly, the album was due out. It was launched kind of last August. He did an event at the Groucho, of course, because he's trying to heart back to the 90s and Brit Pop.

Funny to think as people who live through the 90s and Brit Pop, quite what a historical record that is now. It's like us looking back to the early days of Skiffle. but brick pop is a is absolutely a museum piece now so he did it at the groucho club and the album's coming out on October the 10th you would have noticed keen listener and viewer it is not october the 10th it is it is in fact January of the following year so it's coming out october the 10th he would you know and he may know bones about he said I want this to be my 16th number one album I want to be the most successful albums artist in the history of British music

what happened in October Taylor Swift is decided she was going to release the life of a showgirl, at which point Robbie Williams went, I might not release my album now. I'm not going to do that. So he decides instead to release it this week. Taylor Swift has not got a new album out this week. I tell you who's got new albums out this week.

Most week she has. Yeah, most weeks she actually does, which we'll get to, actually. He was competing this week with the new album from Madison Beer. Yeah. You remember Madison Beer? With the new album from Sleafed Mods. And listen, I love Sleafed Mods,

but, you know, they're not Taylor Swift. And you know what? Neither have they ever pretended to be. No. And the new album from Nathan Evans and St. Phoenix. And Nathan Evans is the guy who did the Weller Man, C-Shanty song. I was listening to that album this morning. It's actually really good. I'm going to recommend the Nathan Evans and St. Phoenix album.

Anyway, he releases it in a very, very soft week for albums, and it went to number one, understandably. And as I say, it's his 16th, number one, beating the Beatles. But the whole of the end, we have to be fair and say, the entire of the entertainment industry, every single one of its strand, is about people thinking about release dates. I mean, from what they want to go up against, whether it be films, books, TV shows, anything. You're thinking, well, I don't think we'll put it up against, you know,

the first week of January because that's when Trader starts and there's no point. Everybody's thinking of that all the time. Whereas albums, it's always been incredibly. If you want to have a number one single, always release it the week after Christmas or the week after that. It's just, it's incredibly soft time for those things, which is what Robbie has done, an absolutely fair play to him, because, you know, you can't have your 16th number one album unless you've had a lot of number one albums before. So he has, he's sold 75 million records before. So, you know, he's able to get to his 16th because he's had lots before.

But to his 16 number one albums, so he's had 16, the Beatles have had 15, but it hides a different story, which is his albums in total have spent 38 weeks at number one. So 38 weeks across those 16 number one albums. The Beatles, across their 15 albums, have had 176 weeks at number one. So the Beatles are demonstrably and massively the more successful act. Sold an awful lot more records than him. He sold 75 million. They sold something like 300 million.

By the way, a record that will never be surpassed because no one buys or records anymore. But also, God bless him, it is not a record that is going to last more than I would say a year because Taylor Swift is already on 14 UK number one albums. And because of, you know, re-recording some of her stuff and this out of the other, she'll release a couple in this year, and she will overtake Robbie as well. So it's,

it's, the reason I found it interesting is the album itself is incredibly nostalgic. As I said, I quite liked it. I mean, it's, you know, it's,

he writes with good people. He's always written with good people. And as I say, Gass Coombs have written something on this. Freddie Wexel has written something on this. But the nostalgia of wanting to be number one. one as well, I thought was interesting. In an era of streaming, and we come from an era where, for example, having a number one single was a big deal.

Yeah. And now it's hugely not. And Robbie's lead off track from this album is called Rocket, which has Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath playing guitar on it. And that was a number 36 hit rocket. So, you know, this is, it's, we live in a different age from when madness or Dexie's Midnight Runners could, you know, go up to number one after a couple of weeks. But he wanted to have a number one album in an era where that doesn't mean anything anymore, where you can get to have a number one album with 17,000 sales sometimes. He wanted to do it.

He released a record that could have been recorded in the 90s. He put it on a trajectory that could have been in the 90s as well. And the whole thing... Well, it suits his... Speaking of brands, it suits his brand, doesn't it? Which has become, I speak incredibly candidly about my demons and my inner voices and my kind of weaknesses and my competitiveness and my ego. So this is the perfect story, isn't it?

That, like, I have to have this. Why do I have to have this? It's worthless. Yeah. It's like he's got a tight five hours of interview material on that. And I've watched quite a lot of it already in the documentary. He's got to get up in the morning. You know, it's like, you know, when Phil Taylor had won, you know, 16 world titles.

You know, you've got to get out of bed for some reason. And, you know, and this is Robbie. Robbie's only ever had two albums in his entire history. that didn't go to number one. So, you know, like, he's only had 18 albums. I know, you know, live at Nebworth went to number two, kept off number one by Dido. And, and... What a curse of Bumble.

And Reality Killed a video star, which is an absolute AI, Robbie title. Yeah. Got to number two as well, and that was kept off number one by JLS. So, you know, he's lived through the generations, Robbie. In terms of the songs, he has, he's written a song with Gary Barlow. Well, I'm looking forward to the take that. Take that documentary, I think it's coming out like, this podcast will come out on Tuesday, and the take that documentary on Netflix will be out on Tuesday.

Yeah, which would be absolutely fascinating to see. Because, you know, there's obviously a detente between Robbie and Gary now, and there wasn't always. But they've written a song together. Do you know what the song they've written together is about? Remind me, because I do know this. It's about Morrissey. Oh, yes, of course.

Sorry, I'm not being ridiculous. Everything on this podcast leads back to the same thing. things. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, they've written a song for reasons best known to themselves about Morrissey and, you know, absolutely fair play to them. Robbie has weighed in on the AI debate. He's written a ballad about AI called Human, which begins, this is a letter from the future.

And I was really looking forward to that. I was listening to the album thinking, I hope this. Why were you? Why was I? Why were you looking forward to it? Robbie Williams's ruminations on AI. Okay. No, I was looking forward to that.

because I thought, I bet there's something on this album that's so bad it'll be fun to talk about. But actually, it's not bad. Did it block it your heartstrings? It didn't pluck at my heartstrings. But it's a nice song. Yeah. You know, and everything on this is a nice song. And there's a song that literally sounds note for note like Elastika.

And the Gazcom's song sounds note for note like Blockbuster by Sweet. But there's some good stuff on there. You know, he always picks very, very good collaborators. It's a good time of vogue for it. John Niven, the, the, brilliant, who I love, all his books. He's written a play about the blurb, Oasis battle for number one.

And it's called The Battle, and it's coming at Birmingham Rep. I think I really want to see that. I will go to Birmingham and see that. But I do think I just wanted to, you know, in this world where, you know, we talk about people just because they're, they do documentaries and they're on social media and stuff like that, that he's gone into a studio.

He's teamed up with a load of musicians, real musicians, real human beings, making real music, released it in the way he used to, in the 90s. It's absurd that it's number one. It doesn't mean anything in terms of the Beatles and stuff like that. But his career means something. And I think he's allowed to have that number one album.

And for the year that he's going to hold that record of the most successful artist in UK album history, I think, listen, if it makes you happy, then God bless you and thank you for the music. I hope it fills the gap. Nothing fills the gap. No, I know. He spent a lot of time telling us. I know, but nothing ever will, Robbie. You know that.

Shall we finish with a couple of moves in the world of television. Television talent. Television talent. So Bakoff, Prue is leaving Bakeoff. Okay, Prue Leith. And it feels like she's been there three series. Of course, she's been there 10 years, which feels like enough. And she's 86 years old.

And she has earned a rest. And, you know, apart from Paul Hollywood, everyone leaves Bake Off eventually. Yeah. I think they've had 10 separate hosts. But I think genuinely, I think it's a masterstroke. They're bringing in to replace her. Nigella. Nigella.

Okay. That, I'm sorry. I love Prude. She's great, but this is a mega trade-up. This is like when Christian Vale replaces George Clooney's Batman. This is like, what's his name? John Stewart replacing Craig Kilbourne on the Daily Show. This is like, Nijella is a star, okay? And she actually does bring with her a different audience.

Nigella is a... And a huge audience in America and a huge audience in Australia, which we do a big deal for. I think it works for her as well. It really works for her. Can I... Yes, because it's a sort of full circle to some degree. How to Eat is an amazing, it's brilliant and is kind of like her original kind of Blockbuster cook book. Domestic goddess with all the cakes and things like that was really

the thing that sort of caught a particular moment. And yeah, Bakeoff is building its next great dynasty. Yeah, I think, I'll tell you what we should do. Oh, at Liverpool. One point. In the 70s and 80s. It's very similar. She's, she's the dog leaf, basically. No, she's, she's the Bob Paisley to pre-leaf spill shankly. I think, I want to Maryberry was Shankly. Bakeoff is the managers and she's the Dalglish coming up after Keegan

and she's like it's going to be even better. Okay, I think that Bake off is Liverpool and I think that the judges are the managers and I think the hosts of the players. I love this. I need to think harder about this in my head. She's Kenny Dalglish and I bet she gets that a lot, Nigella.

She's just talking about it so much. She'll be switching off now. Whereas I think she's Joe Fagan. She probably gets her. Back to the cakes. She probably gets less. You know we did the special Q&A thing, which was about the best ever comebacks.

Yes, I love doing that. We should do one best ever replacements. Yes. Like when somebody left and everyone was like, oh my God, this is a disaster. Someone came in, but actually it was like the best thing that ever happened. Should we, let's note that down. Let's note that. And do that as best ever replacements.

But Nigella may well be tricky because actually Prue is great. And so, you know, it's, you know, Nigella would have to be great, great, in order to be one of the great replacements. But I think it's one of those rare things where it really, really, really works for both parties. Yeah. That it works for Bake Off and it will work for Nigella and it will help Bake Off around the world, which is incredibly important to them. It's in 90 countries. It's incredible.

Bake off. In America, in America it's the Great British Baking Show because I think Pillsbury own Bake Off as a brand. So they can't call it that. But it's huge over there. It's huge in Australia. Anyway, I think that's a winner. But the other guy who's had a show, now I just think this is interesting. Alan Carr.

Now, it's had a new show announced this week, which are very on brand since his celebrity traitors win, which is... Castle Man. It's for Disney Plus, and it's going to be the story of him. He genuinely, this is true, you know, we know he likes Homemaker. We know he likes all this sort of stuff. He's always wanted, he's dreamed of having a castle, and he's going to buy a castle.

Has he? And, yeah, well, and we're going to see, he'll have to, you know, he'll have to do up and run a castle. Which he was going to do anyway. Yeah, which he was going to do anyway, as he said. But he's got, okay, first of all, can we just say how many shows he's got right now? I mean, he really does. So he does interior design masters.

Yeah. Tick, love it. He does Alan and Amanda's adventure. Tick love it. So he's done the, there's a Greek one on at the moment, the Spanish one, Italian one. He does Alan Carr's Picture Slam for BBC. Yeah. The Saturday night.

He's got the new show on Channel 4 Secret Genius with Susie Dent, where you find people whose brains working interesting and unusual ways. Got a sitcom changing ends. The sitcom. changing ends, which is, you know, he produces rights, you know, he's like on that constantly. He, RuPaul's Drag Race as a guest judge, Password, the ITV panel show with Stephen Mangan and Daisy May Cooper. He's on the new season of last one laughing as well. I, to my counting, currently or very soon to have eight different shows on British TV. And I saw him in Amanda Holden last week saying that they turned down strictly.

Which is nonsense. because of course they didn't. It was never offered to them. I agree with that. I don't think that's the case. I would be fairly confident to saying that has not yet been offered to anybody. I mean, it will be in the next month or so.

They might have had a preliminary conversation, which I think is... Or, you know, they said to the, you know, the agent has said, would you consider Alan? And they'd say, we're not considering Alan. And just so they might be kind of... But no, no one sat in a room with Alan and Amanda

and said, would you two like to present strictly? I was told yesterday by someone with absolute certainty. So I'm amazing that Bradley Walsh and Alex Jones are hosting strictly. And I was like, I don't think they are hosting strictly. No. Alex Jones would be good. I'm not saying that Bradley wouldn't.

But no, they have not decided who's going to host strictly yet. And that's a big old show. It's a big old commitment. It has to be somebody who loves that show. Probably somebody's been involved in that show to some extent. And you can have a wild card. but my understanding is no one's in, no one's out, two men, two women, man and a woman. Everything is still on the table there, but yeah, not Alan and Amanda.

Alan doesn't need a night show anyway. But 10 years ago, you could not have eight shows on television at the same time. No. Because too many people watched TV. Now it is so splintered and everything is so siloed that actually you can. That's the interesting thing about it. The other interesting thing I think is that 10 years ago, that kind of unscripted out in the world format was not particularly prestige.

You kind of, if you wanted to be on a big expense of studio show, much more. And that, whereas now something, and obviously the absolute kind of template for it all is Clarkson's farm, which obviously isn't a farming program. It's a star-led project-based. And Castle Man is made by the same company. It's made by the same production company. It's the same. It's a real world project.

It's the same kind of thing in the sense that it's got that inbuilt narrative drive where things are going to go wrong. it's got lots of it will have lots of locals it will have lots of rules yeah it'll be renovations it'll be planning authorities

all the fun stuff and there's a clear mission and it's low stakes existentially in the same way that Clarkson's farm is and it'll be oh I've been told that I listen

I just I've just worked with all of these people before I've been told that every castle has to have a coat of arm so I'm going to see the heraldic person And at Edinburgh University to find a car coat of arms. And we're doing this out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like seven minutes of a VT.

And then, you know, suddenly with the streamers burst its bank and you've got to shore that up. And it's, you know, it'd be fun because it's fun to spend your time with Alan Carr. Yeah, it's like all of these things are like conflict, but, and I, you're going to hate this. Cozy conflict. Cozy conflict. It's great, isn't it? It's the mania for labels.

But we really want these things where they are quest shows where these. these obstacles keep coming and the drama and the comedy comes out of the hero not being able to reach their goal, which is what Carlson's Farm is. But also, I do think there's something about both those shows that has a certain hit element to it because it's a time where people are sort of thinking, does the rules of our country work any longer? Also, I'm interested in heritage. I'm interested in sort of all of these sort of things. There's something about that. that it's in a kind of psychological space that the nation's in at the moment. Looking backwards, doing things with your own hands, building things, creating things.

And it's, yeah, all of that is there. And it will, and with someone at the heart of it. And also escape from the cities. Yeah. It's, you know, everything has been in cities for forever apart from, obviously, you know, things like country file, which aren't in the cities. And then suddenly you're like, people want to be out of them. They want a form of escapism.

and they want it to be much more, much more kind of lavishly produced to some extent than the shows about just going to buy a house in the countryside. They want actually one person. It's interesting that the star is really the format in all of these things and that I suppose that they've just been finding, they're desperate after the traitors to find the exact format for Alan to be Alan in.

You want another chat show. I saw him saying you wanted another chat show. There's piders of all sorts of things. But I think it proves two things. Firstly, you couldn't be on eight shows 10 years ago because it would be too much. But actually these days, he's always on anyway on Instagram and this, sort of the other. And these are just things that feed into that. And I think secondly, that he is a piece of talent who works on every single channel.

There isn't, you know, BBC 1 he works, BBC 2 he works, ITV he works, Channel 4 he works. And there's very few, five he works. Disney he works. I mean, there's very few people who do that, who work across all of those different things and have that kind of recognition and have a love from a view in public. And he's clearly willing to do it as well. You know, he clearly wants to work and do interesting things and fun things.

And it's, listen, I'll be watching it. Oh, yeah, me too. But does he really want a castle? I don't know. It's a question of thinking, if as a piece of talent, is what is it you should pretend that you've always wanted to do in order for them to follow you and make us a documentary? Because firstly, you get a TV commission out of it.

you know that renovating a castle is probably really difficult but if you're renovating a castle with a television company behind you you're not having to ring up the plasterer you know they're doing all that and if the electrician doesn't arrive

firstly it's good telly and secondly you know that the production manager will be getting another electrician to come in and see you so you know why not God bless Alan I think some people when they get their opportunity you know like Rommish and people say Romish is on everything he'll be good on everything you know he's good on everything and he's nice

to work with so people keep offering new stuff. He's on stage in the West End at the moment. I mean, how is he doing? I don't know how. How's he doing it? Yeah. His work ethic is absolutely insane. But that's what happens if you're good at everything and you say yes to everything. That's the that's the sort of career you have. But um, Nigella, we approve going to bake off and Alan Carr, we approve of buying your own castle. Tick signed off by us. Rob a stamp it. Rather stamp it. Any recommendations? I mean, recommendations you just have to say that if you, If you didn't watch the traitors last week, you have to. How does it deliver every time?

It's so extraordinary. And the new, God, I've heard a couple of the names for the celebrity. And it's going to be, but my do, the thing about hearing names for the celebrity one is any name you hear, you go, oh my God, that would be amazing. It's almost impossible to say a name. You know, if it's John Bon Jovi, you'd be going, oh, my God, John Bon Jovi. In the carter, oh, I can really see that. Oh, my God, John Bon Jovi would be amazing with Sue Pollard. but that's and Frankie Datorre oh my god that is amazing those by the way are not names that I've heard

those are off the top of my head but yes definitely that but I'm also can I recommend something you've already recommended yeah which is the book 1929 by Andrew Ross Salkin about the great crash it's yeah I'm listening to he reads it himself it's so brilliant so thank you for recommending it and I will double recommend can I tell you something interesting about one of our previous recommendations which is when the cranes fly south by Lisa Ridson the book that my mum recommended to me and I recommended it. It's fascinating this week that Harriet from the traders, her books have not gone back into the top 50, which I'm fascinated by, because she spoke about them on the show. And it doesn't take a lot to sort of push yourself into that

top 50, but thus far it hasn't had that impact. Yeah, she weirded everyone out. That's why. Well, I think her new book, I think, will be a different thing and, you know, that stuff will happen there. But that book when the cranes fly south, as I say, came from my mum's recommendation is now on the top 10. Oh, really? Yeah, isn't that lovely? Oh, that's wonderful. great business and listen I'm not recommended it again but I'm mentioning it again because it is absolutely terrific but yes I thought that was absolutely lovely and thank

you to all our listeners who bought it as well because that's lovely to propel it into that position very very chuffed about that right we will be back on Thursday with a Q&A as always and a bonus episode on Friday behind the scenes at Ardenham which will be a lot of fun

yeah you know all the questions and lots of people have you know we've always had ardent questions come in as well. So we sort of put everything to them, how you make it, all that stuff. It's really, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, almost any other television company. And so it's, it's, um, I think you would enjoy that one. If you want to become a member, it's restersentatement.com, after you're listening, all that kind of malarkey, either way. Um, we'll see you on Thursday. See you on Thursday. See you on Thursday. Hi there. It's Dominic Sambrook again from the Restus history. Now I mentioned during the

break that we have a new. series on recent Iranian history. So here is a short extract for you. If you want to hear the whole series, then search for Revolution in Iran on The Rest is History, wherever you get your podcasts, or search for us on YouTube. There are crowds in the streets every day. There are attacks on banks and restaurants every day. And already in some towns in Iran, power has been taken from the legitimate authorities and it's been taken over by revolutionary strike committees. Now if you're with the revolution, this is very exciting. If you're not with the revolution, it is terrifying. And in his memoirs, Ambassador William Sullivan describes standing at the US embassy

and looking out through an upstairs window and he sees in the distance troops holding back demonstrators. He sees cars burning in the middle of the road. He sees smoke rising from burning buildings. And he thinks something has to change. We have to do something. So on the 9th of November, he sends a secret cable to Washington with the title, Thinking the Unthinkable. And he says,

The Shah is finished. It's over. And if we don't act now, Iran, which is so vital to us, will slip out of our hands forever. He says we should ditch the Shah right now, and it may well be time to do a deal with the Ayatollah Ruhola Khomeini.

If you enjoyed that clip, then please search for The Rest is History wherever you get your podcasts.