The Rest Is Entertainment - The Best TV Animal EVER

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Why do politicians choose to humiliate themselves on Have I Got News for You? What made Boris Johnson so good at the show? Could Richard make more money by offering product placement in The Thursday Murder Club? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer your questions, covering political panel shows, the best on-screen animals and branding in books. Whether you’re hosting or guesting this Christmas, you need the UK’s best mobile network and broadband technology, only from EE. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Max Archer Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is presented by E.E. Marina, are you hosting or guesting for Christmas this year? Normally, every other year I am a very grateful guest, but I'm now a slightly trepidacious host. Yes, it is me in the apron having a meltdown over all the cooking. No, I don't think I'll have a meltdown. It's a lot, isn't it? Yeah. But you have to just keep saying to yourself, it's just a big chicken. Just a big chicken.

It's just a really big chicken. It's just a really enormous chicken. We are also hosting this year, looking forward to it very much. If you are hosting, and E.E. has the best broadband technology. If you are guesting, then E.E has the best mobile technology. And my goodness, you need it at Christmas, right? Yes, the third babysitter, the distractor. Just when the family walk into the house is, hello grandma, hello granddad. What's the Wi-Fi password?

I might need that. Yeah. Get the best connectivity for your home and your phone with EE. And if you're guesting, lucky you, E.E has the best mobile network to keep you. you connected to music, maps, and backseat streaming for the kids when you're traveling. Search E.E does more. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass.

Get your first year for 250 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca. Ella McKay, coming to theaters December 12th. Your father's here. Why? A heartwarming new comedy from James L. Brooks. I'm a different person. I have never in my life felt this way about any other woman.

Jesus! I wasn't counting your mother! It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family. You can use a scream, Ella. Starring Emma Mackey, Jeannie Lee Curtis, Camille Nanjiani, Iowa Debery, with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. You should do that every afternoon. Ella McKay. Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment,

Questions and Answers edition. I'm Marina Hyne. And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm so well. I'm ready to answer.

Of course you are. Of course you are. Are you ready to question? Oh, yes, I am. Yeah, I'm ready to question. She's like, oh, go on. No, I would like you to question me. Okay, I have a question.

Well, John Andrews wants to question you. Question your worst. Yeah. John says, what does the benefit of politicians going on shows like have I got news for you, where they're often the butt of all the jokes, like Louise Haig. Are they requested or do they request to be on the show. Well, they are asked.

If you look at the register of members' interests, they get paid is pretty standard. They tend not to host with a couple of exceptions, which I'm sure we'll get to see. But you get about £1,500 to £2,000 for your appearance. I saw Louise Higgs one a few weeks ago. Yeah, that was a bit of a car crash. You don't have to say yes, of course.

I have been asked many times to do the show, but have always said no. You get more for hosting, I should say. You do. Yeah. You get about, yeah, a substantial multiple. Yes. Are you hosting this week?

No, God, no. You're guesting. I only ever hosted once, and because I couldn't read the Ortecue properly because of my nistagmas, people thought I was drunk. And so, I'm much happier being a guest. I'm so much happier being a guest. Yeah, I was on it last week. Guesting is always, always much, much, much more fun than hosting.

Hosting is really hard work, whereas guesting, you just get to say what you want. Yes. And I suppose, so, you know, they probably put in, for everybody, or people who the people have actually heard of, you're not getting some obscure backbencher. This week, interestingly, it's a very interesting week to ask this question, John Andrews's well done. Zach Polanski is on.

And Zach Polanski, you know, the greens are going up and up and up in the polls. A lot of people seem to be liking him. So for him, this will be out tomorrow if you listen to this on the Thursday, I think it might be a good thing. But they will show the clip to anyone who hasn't seen the clip of Jack. Zach Polanski, explaining that he can make a woman's breast larger via hypnosis in a previous life. They will show that clip again. Now, what happened with Louise Haig, if people don't know this story,

and obviously a lot more people know this story, now she's been on her I've got news than knew it before, is that she has a fraud conviction because she claimed to have had her company mobile phone. It was a Blackberry, I think, stolen off her in a mugging. And in fact, she made a false claim of that, and she just wanted a better phone. She wanted an iPhone five, I believe, at the time, which places that for you in the canon. I think, Zach Polanski could have made that happen with hypnotism. Yes, he could have just got her a better phone. You can upgrade your phone.

Yeah. The answer is, there is one, obviously, we have seen a person who was very, who very successfully came to prominence, particularly via that program, actually. Boris Johnson was asked about multiple times. Unfortunately, to make it work, obviously politicians, we live in an age of sort of anti-political. And so the prize for all these people is to try and seem human. And although our age of anti-politics seems to be only about politics, strangely. But anyway, so it's to try and seem human.

Maybe Louise Haig's spad's thought she'll seem human. That's her special advisors. Yeah. But there's a reason that they thought that and particularly must have thought now is because she must be on some kind of, I keep seeing her on name link with various kind of leadership maneuvers within the Labour Party. they're less likely to go for her now after she's done that show and I think, I mean, you know, never underestimate the ability of the Labour Party to do something absolutely nuts

but this isn't going to happen. You have to be very, very good and whether or not you like it, Boris Johnson was very, very good on this show. He had a unique persona. It was sort of uncategorizable. He had a very dangerous thing where he was able to just laugh off these awful things which she failed to do, as an example. and obviously whether or not you think it's right he was able to

it's a little bit like being a comedian on traitors you somehow can just sort of laugh and diffuse your way out of it and it became a very valuable political tool We live in a sort of whitocracy which is if you can be funny and you want to rule the world it's easier. It's a real superpower to be able to do this because it just manages to diffuse all sorts of difficult situations

to kind of divert away from things and he was able to do that and so I think people always just think or if you're trying to expand your profile that is a staging post I would not go on it if I had a fraud conviction I actually personally Zach Planski is just going to have to keep getting

past the fact that he told people he could make their tits big of by hypnosis he's just going to have to keep getting past that fact but it will more and more people will find out about people just people will just have to not mind about that because he's doing very very well yes I guess he thinks it I mean it's not something I was aware of but he said he was sorry for it

and he keeps saying like I said I was sorry for it's like yeah I know but you still did it Yeah, you have to own it. It is still a very high profile show, have I gotten used for you? It still does very, very big numbers, you know, all these years later. You know, in an era where there are no more of those shows left, have I gotten used for you, stands alone. It can be incredibly useful for you. You know, personal brand is everything these days in politics as much as anything else.

So if you are Louise Haig, I guess you're thinking, what if it goes great? If it goes badly, you know what? What if they don't mention my fraud conviction? But even if they do. Keeps only word fraud conviction, because honestly, what were you thinking? What if I get out in front of my fraud conviction? That's what they were thinking. Because I've done a few guys with...

What if I'm really witty and good and clever in a really kind of dark but brilliant way? Like Boris Johnson, what if I'm like that, but you're not, are you? The thing to spot, the thing you can see with a lot of politicians when they go on it, it's always my favourite thing, is the first round is always they show a little VT of something from the news that week. And they've seen it a million times before where it's like, I'm going to be a bit of, You're going, oh, there's Donald Trump. Oh, there's, you know, and leads on to a joke. So the politicians always go, oh, there he is, Donald Trump.

Oh, he's in front of a plane. Oh, there he is. He's in a car. And there's Joe Biden. And you can see them thinking, sorry, when's the joke? When do I get to the bit that's the joke? And they go, oh, no, how I have to actually think of the joke as I go along. So they do the rhythms of it's going to be funny.

Like a cargo cult and eventually a joke will just come into my head. And it doesn't. And I always feel awful. But I did it with Jess Phillips, who can absolutely handle herself. And Ruth Davidson also can completely handle herself. And for people like that, it's a great show to do because... Neither of them have a fraud conviction. I think it helps. But, you know, in that world, you know, it opens up doors for you and people can see who you are as a real human being and, you know, Jess Fitzwillis will have a go at the Labour Party and Ruth Davidson will have a go at the Tory party. So there's sort of, you know, fairly teflon in that regard. So I think it can be useful if you are a good, funny, strong personality. I think if I'm the producer of how I got news for you and Ruth Davidson wants to come on, great, I get two things. I get a politician who can talk in a certain way and also I get someone who's going to be entertaining. Entertainment booking.

And if there is someone like a Louise Haig, well, I can't lose because either she's great. You think, oh, brilliant. That's someone I can now book for the next five series and she'll have an insight into the Labour Party and that's very, very useful. And if she's bad, that's good as well because people like seeing a politician do badly. If I book a comic and they don't do well, that's hard. There's no one gains from that. If I book a politician, they don't do well, then there's something in that for me. It's all feeds into the show and it becomes quite viral.

Obviously, they would rather people do well because that makes. looking is easier for the future. But there is nothing to lose if you're the producers by booking a politician. There always is something to lose if you are a politician. But Zach Lanshee will be. I think she knew that it would be in the week of lots of people talking about Rachel Reeves's failure to declare the thing on the rental agreement. And she wanted to say, well, I was treated up because I was when my fraud conviction came

to like, I keep saying the world's fraud conviction, you see, this is the problem with it. But when it came to like, or I was, I was, I was got. rid of as transport minister and she hasn't been got rid of as Chancellor and I think she kind of wanted to put, say this has been unfair, this is not the forum to do this. Yeah, it's like Zach Polanski has made your fraud conviction bigger with the use of hypnosis. But I get it.

It is a siren call and if you're asked to do it. There is something about, have I gotten used for you, it's one of those shows that does have a cachet and is that sort of thing like, you think, oh, maybe I could. Maybe, you know, I've watched that show for many, many years and my friends say I'm funny. So, you know, maybe, you know, but then, yeah, you do see them get halfway through a bit. You have to know where this bit is finishing when you start it.

You have, there's, there's every comic who's on this show, has, they thought of the joke first. And the setup is then going, how do I set up that joke? Okay, I'll say this. And so it's, that's worth looking out for. But Polanski, listen, who knows, I'm fascinated to see it tomorrow or today, if you're listening to this on Friday or yesterday, if you're listening to this on Saturday, is available. I don't want an eye player. Okay, a question from Derek Lord.

He says, how much rehearsal is there between TV interviews and their guests? How much is spontaneous and how much is pre-planned? I mean, it depends on the show, really. Most things, it's spontaneous. Or pretty much any show you'll go on, you will have a briefing call the day before. If you're on Lorraine or if you're on Graham Norton or if you're on BBC Breakfast or any of these things, you'll have a briefing call. And they'll say, because usually you're on something because you're, promoting and so it's it's sort of it's those briefing calls are a bit for them and a bit for you

so you know if you're promoting a book you know they'll say oh so tell us about the book tell us this sort of the other i read and if you said you said this they're essentially they know they have to set up you know write a list of notes for their presenter to you know when you come on if you're on beauty breakfast you're there for seven minutes or whatever and they just need to know they're said we'll talk about the book then maybe we'll talk about if it's me we'll talk a bit about house of games and what's happening with that and maybe oh you I know that you're a big fan of celebrity traitors. Maybe we'll talk about that.

So you'll have an idea of what might be asked of you. Certainly they won't tell you what the questions are. And the first question will usually be the thing you know it's going to be. But good interviewers, like you go on BBC breakfast and someone like Charlie State, he never sticks to what the questions are. And he knows that are, you know, depending on who his guest is, that they're able to kind of go off script. So there'll always be a briefing.

So the presenters will know roughly what the guests, thinks is going to happen the guests will roughly know what the interview is going to ask but most good interviews sort of come off the back of that that's just to keep everyone safe if you've got something like Graham Norton

that's slightly different because it's an entertainment show and the real skill of Graham Norton is he has those four guests there all the time and it's about knitting them together is they will always do a thing where they'll try and find some connection between the guests so your briefing interview on that will not be

because they know who you are and what it is that you do You know, and so they'll say, oh, and, you know, Mariah Carey is on. If you ever, you know, what's your thoughts on Mariah Carey or Tom Hanks is on and this, that or the other. So that's more them as producers, just thinking, I wonder if there's a bit of fun for Graham. After he's done the main bit of the interview, when, you know, those fun bits of Graham Norton, which is always, I was on with Chris and Rosie Ramsey doing the Hamilton Raptor, Lynn, Manuel, Miranda, Miranda, and, you know, things like that. So the skill to those things is to make it as light a touch as. possible to make people feel comfortable because lots of people going on those shows have not

done those things before so just to make them feel like look don't worry there's not going to be anything too terrifying that if you have a presenter like charlie and nagger on the BBC who are interviewing 15 different people across a show that every time a new thing starts they can just look down at a bit of paper and go okay i know where my starting point is yeah uh so it's that occasionally you'll do shows i did i did um i did jack whitehall of my or Whitehall had a show once and I was on that with McFly which is for me

it was a thrill and I started saying something or other and I became aware that that was very very scripted and sometimes shows are just comedy shows. Yeah. You know so it's you can't really do anything at all so some shows aren't really interview shows they're really they're really comedy shows

but for the good interview shows you'll always have a briefing so you'll always you know they'll say oh we talk about this we talk about that we talk about that but you'll come off far to us go, oh, we didn't talk about any of those things. No. In the end. But in the US on those late-night shows, that is a totally different ballgame.

The publicist has spent a long time getting, you know, whoever it is, whichever stars promoting these, whether it's Glenn Powell, whether it's whoever, when they know they're doing a press tour, their best anecdotes, funny things that people may not, or things that may not have been surfaced. And they will pass all those out and they will tell the people, and then, you know, whether this person is going on Stephen Colbert or, you know, Seth Myers or wherever, will tee them up to tell this anecdote and so much of that. As you say, they might completely deviate,

but they've got three absolute banker anecdotes that you can get out of Kate Hudson or whoever it is that week. I was watching a Jason Isaac's one where they were getting to do British accents. And all of that is pre-planned and pre-prepared. But always the stuff that is best and every producer will tell you this. And every chat show hosts will tell you this and every great chat show guests will tell you this. The best stuff is always the stuff. that isn't planned, but to get to that stuff, you do need to plan stuff. Yeah, I agree.

And it's like in anything, it's like in theatre or whatever or in comedy, when people have that sense that they're seeing something that is just a response to something that's gone wrong in the show that night and just a bit of covering, those got the hugest laughs because there's something in the ether that you know it's spontaneous and it just happened. And it's an ad lib and it's brilliant. And those are always the things that just catch light. And especially with those kind of US shows where I think that it can feel incredible.

And that's the whole point of things, that hot ones, which is that it just disrupts everything because you're having very hot chicken wings. Those are disruptions to that kind of format where it was a really quite carefully mapped out dance. But I agree with you, yes, anything that happens spontaneously, you can always tell. Shall we go to a break? And after the break, we have a question from, I think the greatest answer we were ever given was about sounds in nature documentaries, which Steve Baxhaw very, very kindly. And if you've not listened to that episode, he gives us such a brief. brilliant answer. But Baxhawl is back because he has a question this time, which we'll ask straight after these. This episode is brought to you by Channel 4. Now, Richard, settling down on a winter's evening, turn the TV on, what sort of thing are you searching for?

Well, when you think about Channel 4, you think about quirky, you think about slightly off the wall. I, my absolute go-toes, well, three things my absolute go-toes. Grand design. because Kevin McLeod is a great-dest television presenter in the history of factual entertainment. 24 hours in police custody, again, because it changed the way those things were done. You know, it changed. We'd seen all sorts of police investigation things, but 24 hours in police custody absolutely had a new, unusual, refreshing way of covering those cases. And every single time there is a new one. They have to release them. They can't sort of release them week by week because they're literally waiting for court cases to come through.

Some of them are waiting for years. For years and years and years. But any time a new one, up on the streaming service. I'm like, here we go. And I also love the dog house, which is just about rescue dogs and people who want dogs. And it's almost like a sort of slightly kind of matchmakery type show. Fantastic. I endorse those messages and you can stream them all now on Channel 4. Now it's time for a special segment of today's podcast called the Holiday Guest List, which is brought to you by EE, home of the best broadband connectivity and the best mobile connectivity. That is right. We are about to create, to fashion the perfect lineup of real and fictional VIPs, if you want fictional. Christmas guests. Mine are real. Mine are real. Mine are real as

who you'd love to grace your table over the holidays. So without further ado, let's get into it. Okay, I'm going Nigella first. She's one of mine. No way. Oh, that's nice. Surprisingly. It's got to be, right? Because otherwise you spend your entire time looking up recipes online and just going to, sorry, does the turkey, is this supposed to look like that? Whereas Nigella just takes care of all of that for us. Bit of us ladies' holiday for her. But she, you know, she would probably want to actually put her feet up, is the truth. So the good news is she's great company as well.

I tell you, well, who else I've got to have? Yeah. I have got to have Claudia Winkelment. Okay. We've got a traitors game and you do it online and it does, and you write it on the slate, you can do it on an iPad, all of this sort of thing. But my daughter actually always insists on being the person to say, the time for talking is over

but it would be so much better if it was Claudia IRL saying that to us We think very similar similarly because my second guest is Joe Marla Oh, he'd be brilliant And again, because there are so many online traitors games that you can play now

And he just think, I mean, he's the perfect person I have there But I would love it I mean, I think if he were a traitor You'd spot him immediately Because he would crumble And so I think I'd like to have him there For a game of traitors But also I think he'd be very beatable at it

Which you'd like Yeah, I would like Okay, I have to get someone from history I'm having, I mean, you know, it's pretty root one But he was a stupendously entertaining Oscar Wild Also, you get to show him broadband in the internet Because if anything, that guy has the soul of a poster Okay, that guy is would have been you say

Hey, you know your jokes and your little one-liners and all that sort of stuff Here, you want loads of people to hear them all at once really, really quickly, and you'd just get loads of, you know, get glazed, as my children would say by everyone saying, you're brilliant. Well, Oscar Wilde, he would, okay, not only you'd make you laugh, but you could show him how to sort of disseminate his bomo out into the world, and I'd quite like that. Okay, I did have a third choice, but I'm going to change my third choice in relation to that, just because, you know, I like our choices to be oppositional, so I'm going to go for Kim Wilde. There we go. Kim Wilde would be wonderful?

Yeah, why not? She'd sing to you, would she? She'd do a... No, she can do what she wants. It's just, I'd just say... Kim Waugh can do what she wants. You're correct, Richard. Kimmer can do what she wants. I'll say, you're there because we all like you, but also because Marina chose Oscar Wilde. What's your last one?

My last one, and there's literally no reason for this other than, as you know, I love weapons-grade celebrity gossip. And who serves more of it than anyone, Elton John. Says what he thinks, it would be hysterical. Wow. Once he's obviously connected to the internet, someone else will handle his social media activity for that day because I just think it's safer for the public. I was thinking of someone musical. I thought one of the key things you have to have for Christmas is a proper Christmas playlist.

But then it occurred to me that that is literally my favourite job. Your playlist are brilliant. Oh, that's very kind of you. Could we do it so we all can add songs all the way out the other day? I love this. Absolutely. Everyone can connect to it and add stuff. So I actually have a spare guest because I don't need a musical guest.

So I'm just going to have someone who I know we have an amazing time with. Cedar, Emery. Merry Christmas. Of course. Oh, yeah. Don't you think? Well, that, you're welcome for that dinner party because it would be an absolutely aurorious festival occasion. And with the UK's best mobile network and broadband technology from EE,

all of that chaos can be contained. So if you're hosting a number of real and historical figures at home, EE has the best broadband technology that can handle all of your visitors streaming, scrolling and gaming needs. And if you're guesting at someone else's home, EE has the best mobile network to keep you connected and keep you up with all of those playlists, maps and what have you. To get connected, search EE does more.

Welcome back, everybody. I promise Steve Baxhaw, and I'm delivering. Baxhaw says, hi Richard and Marina. Who do you think are the top ten? Wow. Who do you think are the top ten fictional animals in TV and film? Well, Steve, as you know, I love you. I love this question. You're going to go nuts, Richard, because I haven't actually put them in a top ten order. What do you mean? What have you done?

I've got ten amazing animal, and I've done performances. This is like animals that can actually act. Yeah, but which is best, though, which of them is best? Okay. No, because presumably, I'll do it. Presumably, no, this is, sorry, I just look for logic, presumably there was an 11th best. Well, there was some that, yeah, have not made the cut and it's quite sad. Sorry, Lassie.

You're not in there? So we're saying there was an 11th. And I'll tell you why, because there were a lot of Lassie, actually. There were a lot of Lassie. Sorry, I'm just, I'm going to, Minister, I'm going to have to keep asking. this question. You accept that there was an 11th placed animal, but you're not accepting there's a 10th, 9th, 8, 7th,

I'm not doing them in an order. I'm going to give you 10 amazing animal performances, where the animals are unbelievably good at it. Are you going to at least end on the one that you think is the best? I'll have to decide while I'm doing it. Yeah, okay. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what we'd do. We'll end on the 7th best. Why don't we do that? That'd be a great way to end this section. I'm starting that. The item is now starting.

Why don't we disappoint Steve Baxhaw? That'd be a lovely way to start our day. Don't do that. Don't come at me with that. That's unbelievable. I want you to be the best you can be. You know that. I don't want you to disappoint yourself in front of backshall. You know I don't.

Right. I'm going to start with a really vicious one. I don't know why I'm in a really vicious mood now. But the dog in John Carpenter's movie, The Thing, is unbelievable. Okay, there's some scenes in that, and I just was thinking about this. And I thought, I'm going to have to actually go and rewatch those. It's like a wolf dog. The actual dog itself is called Jed.

There's a moment where it's running from its... It seems much less scared. at the start. Yeah, I know, but it's really not less scary. There's a scene in the kennels, which is quite traumatising, presumably also for the other dogs who are playing in that scene. But this is an, this dog can seriously act. We'll try and get some of these dogs out of the way altogether. The dog, that dog in anatomy of a fall is brilliant, messy, is absolutely brilliant. The dog in the artist, Aggie, do you remember there's a whole, like, campaign? Like, why is this dog not getting a nomination? This is so good. Yeah. Let me give you some reasons why the dog is not getting a nomination. It's not how this business works. Terry, who's the dog that plays Toto in The Wizard of Oz, who, that iconic, an iconic performance, probably treated far better by MGM than Judy Garland was,

very depressingly, but there we go, that's a period piece. As I say, I respect lassie, but there were a lot of lassies. There were so many mouths. That's like the MGM lion. There were a lot of MGM lions. We've talked about this before on a previous episode, so I won't go in too much into Rintin Tin, but Rintin Tinn-Tin literally saved a studio,

literally pretty much saves Warner's. an incredible, was an incredible performer, was rescued from World War II. I mean, it's an amazing story. So, okay, that's dealt with the dogs. The cat in alien, Jonesy, that, because that's like a cult move, well, it's a relationship. I think a cat actor, because it's harder to act if you're a cat, I think. Yes, definitely. It's not in your nature.

Dogs are very eager to please. Dogs are very directable. Yeah. Cats are very undirectible. Oh, yeah. I mean, famously, it's like, it's directing cats in this one. And so I would say the bitch. It's like herding actors.

Hearding actors. The donkey in the Banshees of Inishirene. Oh my God. She's amazing, Jenny. By the way, she is absolutely incredible in that film. There's two extremely good actors, Brendan Gleeson and Colin Farrell. Jenny, I mean, more than holding her own with those two. She's brilliant in that.

I heard that Martin McDonough who wrote it, he didn't really want her to have to work again after this because she's done so well. And as far as I know, she lives on a... sort of lovely sanctuary in County Calais. She's probably literally going, why is my phone not ringing? Why is my career stalled? Yeah. She's like waiting for her agent the whole time,

just going, no, but I think it did well because I think Colin has done stuff, hasn't he? Yeah. And Brendan has done bits and bobs. I just don't feel. And Kerry's done quite a lot, hasn't she? Should. No, no, it's fine.

Yeah, I mean. Yeah. I saw Kerry in the F1 movie. I just wanted to see it in Waterford. And I was just thinking, oh, because we would, you know, I just, so anyway, I'm available. And Martin McDonough's going, no, no. Just change your age and Jenny, but she's amazing.

Speaking of people who never saw, Crystal the Monkey, like that is a far better CV than almost all actors of her journey. Crystal the Monkey, which is everything. She's in Georgia the Jungle, Night at the Museum, all the nights of the museum, in the Spielbergs, the Fablemans, hangover to, she's like a drug-dealing monkey in Hammer, hangover to her community. Okay, that is a better CV than most human actors of her generation.

I mean, I don't think there is the rest is philosophy, but I'm very much against dogs getting Oscars. But monkeys getting Oscars? Yeah. Oh, monkeys should have Oscars for definite. They should, yeah. You know what I mean? That feels like maybe as a thing.

Yeah. I mean, she was amazing. Crystal is amazing. I think Crystal's still with us, actually, but she's very, very good. This is a bit of a weird one. I'm going to put Cheetah in from the Tarzan movies because I love that book so much. I don't know if anyone ever read that book, it's brilliant. It's called Me Cheetah, and it's a sort of fake showbiz memoir.

But it's a really great way of exploring that time. By James Leaver. Yeah. By James Leaver. And I really, that's a wonderful one. And I, what have I got to end with? I've got, I think. Oh my God.

Have you not, I assumed at the bottom of the page you had. Yeah. Yeah. I think the horse. It's horses and it's very difficult for me to get the best. I was good. The one who plays Joey in Warhorse. Yeah.

It's very, it's very good. Black Beauty, again, that, I mean, black, beauty, that's amazing because that's an incredible performance. But actually, there's a Vigo Mortensen movie called Hidal, and there's a horse in that that is absolutely, that's extraordinary. I don't know, Steve, those are my top ten. I've got to choose one for the top one. Maybe it is...

No, I'll choose one for the top one, I know that the top one. The littlest hobo. Easy, done, job done. How many hobos were there really? They were four. Yeah, exactly. Come on then. They had a gap, but late hobo.

It's inexcusable, no. Late homo. Okay. All right. All right. Well, that's the 11th animal then, isn't it? The latest hobo. Rocketed to number one. Okay. Thank you for that question, Steve. I always like to work with animals. A question for you, Richard, from John Hopkins, who says that Phineas, the brother and songwriting partner of Billy Eilish, was recently commissioned by Apple to write the new mnemonic, the few seconds of music that plays with the logo for Apple TV. How will he get paid for this? Why would Apple bother paying an A-lister who's presumably going to cost a fortune? is he really going to be that much better than anyone else?

Huh. I wonder if that's John Hopkins, the musician. I don't know. I mean, it's very in his, he's an amazing electronic musician. He would have quite like to have died. Yeah, exactly. He's thinking, oh, why can I not do that? Yeah.

First, Phineas, A list or not? No. Finius? Oh my God, don't be ridiculous. It's not even close. So with this one, I think, it's good publicity for Apple to have Phineas doing that. This would be a buyout because these scenes can end up being incredibly expensive when they're

not buyouts. There's been a whole history of this. Brian Eno did the music for Windows 95, that startup chine. That was Brian Eno and it was 3.25 seconds long and said it took him literally forever and he became incredibly sensitized to microseconds of music.

And knew exactly when it was 324 he knew it when it was 326. It is a recipe descent of a musician mad, isn't it? The sort of thing. Yeah, I think exactly that. And you know, things like the I'm loving it's jingle, you know, the kind of hip-hop version. I'm loving it. That went out to a million ad. For McDonald's. That went out to a million ad agencies around the world. A German firm won it in the end. Justin Timberlake got paid

$6 million for singing it. So he got over a million dollars a second. But my favorite one, and again, this is why Phineas will be on a buyout rather than anything else. There's a guy called David Dundas, who was the son of the Marquess of Zetland and was a sort of jingle composer. had a big hit with jeans on that's people were known from the 70s but he did do you remember the 4 note Channel 4 music

he wrote that and he would get paid quite a nice amount of money every single time it was used and that was used before every single Channel 4 show after every Channel 4 show for around about 15 years

he made a seven figure sum from doing That's great for the great Arest's Day permanent poverty crisis that there was pleading. Why don't you all just write a little jingle and then we don't have to hear about your houses? And how expensive the roofs are. Do your little jingle. So Phineas, I imagine, would be, I mean, it'll be paid a lot for it because, again, it's a publicist. It's the computer company, Richard.

Yeah. It's funny money for these companies. Yeah, but they'll have this one so not, believe me. But John Hopkins, if you are the John Hopkins, then, yeah, it feels like. Like, let's get John Hopkins to do the next one. Yeah. Don't you think? You can send if it is the John Hopkins, send us a little four-note

mnemonic that we can play on the rest of entertainment. You've tried to send a musician mad, is what you've done. And how will we pay you free membership? Vela, which is, I mean, that's worth more than the Marcus of Zetland got. Marina, a question for you from Ellie. Thank you, Ellie. Ellie asked, could paid product placements in novels become a thing and why are Instagram influences required to use a sponsored hashtag

but other mediums like TV and film don't have to? Very good question. It has, I think it's almost like a historic thing because it has become a thing in the past and it never worked. And there are just a few examples which I'll give you and then I'll tell you why I think this kind of sponsorship is going. The first one that I think people knew about was Fay Weldon wrote a book called the Bulgari connection, which was

Bulgari, the jewelry brand said you've got to, if you do this this was in the year 2000. She was like a writer in residence for Bulgari, wasn't she? Yeah, I mean, this is one of these weird jobs. And actually, William Boy did a landry of a thing a bit like this. And they said, you've got to mention it 12 times. And I think she did it 34 times.

I mean, if it's a novel called the Bulgari Collection connection, rather. I think that's quite a few times. I would just make my killer, Dave Bulgari. Yeah. Yeah, it's much easier. Then there was a couple of sort of chick lit ones where cars were in it. I think Ford Fiesta got a novelist to change the VW Beetle to a Ford Fiesta. Y.A. novels did a few sort of skincare things and makeup brands. As I said, William Boyd, I think, did one.

But William Boyd did a sort of Land Rover kind of like a short story. And they said to him, you can sort of do anything you like, but could it possibly have a Land Rover in it? and he did something called The Vanishing Game but it was really like doing a very fancy ad and you could click on it and little films came up and it was kind of an adventure store. William Boy can do whatever he wants

I think it's a... Yeah, but I think it wasn't like he was publishing... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. And it wasn't like he was publishing a novel. It was sort of like a... Yeah, everyone knew what it was. Like a movie director doing an ad, you know,

something a bit like that. There was one book called Waiting at Haydens, which was weird. It's like a digital book and you could shop the clothes that the characters were wearing. Or you'll probably know by the time I've got to that point, you'll think actually all that feels really old-fashioned

and it's not really how we can see things anymore. In Richard's book, for example, Richard's books have lots and lots of brand names in, but none of them are sponsored because it's a form of realism. We've talked about this before. It's a brilliant form of short-hand. It's sometimes just mentioning them is a joke. I must have more brands than...

Yeah, and no sponsorship. As soon as I read this question, I'm like, hold on a minute. Hold on a minute, yeah. I'm missing a trick here. But I think the trick has moved on, really, because people are so – something else that we talked about when we talked about product placement is that people are so used to forms of – I mean, influencing is a form of story, isn't it? If you're a lifestyle influencer, if you're one of these people, even like if you're Molly May or if you're Millie McIntosh, you know, your story is a sort of – in some ways, perhaps a lightly fictionalised account of your own life and you're constantly selling via it. People see selling in a totally different way now. say that the next frontier in product placement is already happening. It's personalized and

dynamic. When I was doing research about Marvel films, it was very interesting. They would say, oh yeah, you know, in all the different territories, whatever's in that cooler that they're going to walk past. It will be different drinks in every different territory. So they're digitally inserting all these different things. That's according to territories and where you are. What they are now starting to do, and particularly in Asia, this is really taking off, is that it's according to your preferences, your purchase history. And I think you'll see on streaming in the future things that will be tailored to you in the background of scenes that are literally based on your search history and the way you've interacted with the algorithm. So if you just looked up a chair and you know that currently on Facebook, every single advert is now for a chair, suddenly, yeah, you'll be watching the diplomat.

And in the background, there'll be like a chair that you just looked at. Come on a minute. Already now, in some places in Asia, you can click on what a character's wearing. and I suppose you could click on their chair as well. Sorry to be chair-obsessed. And obviously in gaming, it's already part of that ecosystem and there are virtual stores, there are wearables, the skins, vehicles. You don't mind it there. I think the big and the most interesting one,

which is obviously coming up at a kind of rate of knots, is when it becomes conversational in AI. I mean, I want to say it's a mine feel, but it's kind of like all mine. There's no bits of field. That feels to me very, very dangerous. But I think that that's already where it's going and there are already big sort of ethics conversations about that.

Yeah, I think anything non-editorial is absolutely fine because, you know, people have got to wear clothes and drive cars and what have you. Yeah, the second is plot-driven or, you know, conversation-driven, then that's an issue because then what are you watching? But there is the idea of the dissolution of a kind of shared fictional creative reality and, in fact, because it's so personalised to you

and you're seeing a different version of the diplomat. So you're getting a different chair to me. I think there's lots of ethical and creative problems with that. But within AI, I think in terms of people's conversations with AI, chatbots and so on, that is a real frontier that we don't really know. And as always with these things, we have no idea what they're doing and what's already happening. But I think we can assume that, as I say, like a minefield where it's kind of all mine.

Oh, my God. One for you, Richard, from Ben, who says, celebrities often appear on TV shows with captions with their name and profession. Did the celebrities get a say in what is displayed? Richard, as someone with lots of strings to your bow, what is your preferred job title? I always find it fascinating when people are, like on Celebritators, when I think Tom Daly was Olympian and entrepreneur.

So, yeah, you definitely do get a choice in how, I mean, listen, if he'd said, you know, Olympian and rocket scientists, they wouldn't have allowed it. But yes, you do have a choice. If ever I'm introduced, I'll always try and have author first. Because it takes a very long time to, you know, if you do different things,

it's like a super tanker changing, you know, how people think about you. But my favourite version of this is always on celebrity game shows where people introduce themselves. It's always my least favorite thing in the whole world. And they'd always say, I'm so and so and you will know me from. And you're like, ah, because that is a conversation that's had to be had.

And you get people, you know, people who maybe whose main fame was in the 80s, for example, but feel like they've done a lot of work since then. And they are, you know, are less comfortable saying, you'll know me from the 1985 Eurovision Song Contest. You know, as they want to say, you'll know me from my new podcast that I'm doing about parenting. And so, yeah, there's negotiations as to how somebody is billed, both in those of what you call Aston's, those little, you know, written things on screen. But mainly in the introduction to things, I was watching, I'm a celebrity. And it's all you will know me from.

Yeah. You know, and people sort of telling you who they are. But you will know me from, it sends such a shiver down my spine. I would always, when we did point to celebrities, you know, they'd almost be kind of written out. And I just sort of think this doesn't, it doesn't feel right. Well, no, there are times when it is just too glaring. And you've just got to be realistic about where you will be known from. and definitely Tom Daly's agent

or whoever his management is who said he's got to be Olympian and entrepreneur and he's got to have a show scene I don't care when he's leaving unless you know the show scene just happened accidentally but a lot of people now have

you know presenter and podcaster because you know it's not you know anyone just say presenter and human like I've said to you all humans in the year 2025 have a podcast so you just there's no need but yeah it's sort of you know everything is personal

branding. We know that. And, you know, for most people, it's easy if you're an actor or if you're a musician or whatever it is. But if you are multi-hyphenate in any way, or if you've found your way to fame via a reality TV show, for example, then, you know, that will often be someone is, you know, business person and podcaster. And you think, huh, I thought you were from Made in Chelsea. Yeah. I thought we knew from, I don't think people know you as a business person on a podcast. I think people know you as that person from Made in Chelsea. But listen, everyone's on the

griff. You can only describe yourself as a businessman in this country as like, we've got like three famous businessmen. There are people like Richard Branson. I mean, no, you can't, like, maybe James Dyson. Yeah. Maybe Jamie Lang. No, you can't call yourself a businessman until you're that famous for business.

Yeah, actually Jamie Lang, he is actually one of the only people in the world. He's quite a successful podcaster and quite a successful businessman. So I'll let him off, but everyone else. It's like when rich people call themselves film producer. Oh, my God, that's unacceptable. You mean someone asks you for money and you said yes? Come on.

So, yeah, those job titers, yeah, I've always, because author is the thing I spend most of my time doing, so I'll always call myself that. But if people call my TV presenter or a producer, people have started calling me, especially in foreign countries, comedian. That I always try and really stamp down on that. Because if people think you're a comedian,

then you have to be funny. whereas I've always got away with, you know, anything funny I say. People go, oh my God, he's not even a comedian. Whereas if you're a comedian, you have to be funny. So I'm not a comedian. I am an author, businessman and philanthropist. Yeah, philanthropist is another one that is. That's me.

Entirely unacceptable. And podcaster. Yeah. That about wraps us up. But tomorrow we have got, for our members, we've got a very special behind the scenes episode from the Lion King. and like the absolute blockbuster musical that's been setting London on fire.

Lovely sort of behind, like talking to everyone who's involved, how it's put together, or just behind the scene stories and what a day in the life of the Lion King looks like. So if you want to join for ad-free listening and all the rest of it, it's the rest of entertainment.com and the bonus episodes.

Otherwise, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. Thank you.