The Rest Is Entertainment - The Chappell Roan Bodyguard Drama

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Who is the bodyguard at the centre of the Chappell Roan hotel incident, and what previous celebrity scandal was he involved in? Where does ‘Chekov’s Gun’ come from, and which 80s film used it best? And what classic film has Richard never seen? Richard Osman and Marina Hyde answer your questions on the world of TV, movies and celebrity bodyguards. The Rest is Entertainment is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain's most awarded energy supplier. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Video Editor: Max Archer Assistant Producer: Imee Marriott Senior Producer: Joey McCarthy Social Producer: Bex Tyrrell Exec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, can I tell you something cool that Octopus Energy do if you ring them and you have to be put on hold? Because they know who you are. They know your birthday. The Hold Music is the best-selling single from the year that you were 14. That's quite cool, isn't it? Yes. I love this.

Exactly. I've looked into it for you. Do you want to know the best-selling single in the year that you turned 14? So this would be your hold music on Octopus Energy. It is Yaz the only way is up. What do we think to that? Well, yes, and the plastic population. Yes, and the plastic population.

Oh, of course. Do you know what? I sometimes think the plastic population do not get their due. They don't get there. They don't get their credit, do they? You know, I need to ring it to Octopus now and just listen to it. You can choose to say, oh, I don't want to have any whole music at all. Absolutely, yeah, you can do whatever you want.

Okay, what animals, what monster? Okay, it might be a really bad song, but what monsters don't choose to listen. I have to say. To the song. Yeah. I love that they do now. I hope we're going to do this for me in another episode. But then we find out if I, yeah,

I think I'm considerably older than you, aren't I? Not that much. What? It's like two, three years, is it? Yeah, you'll be saying, and the best-selling single in the year that you were 14, Richard. It's Cumberland Gap by Lonnie Donegan. When WestJat first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s,

one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to West Jetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at Westjet.com slash 30 years. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restis Entertainment, Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina. And I'm Richard Asman. Hello, Lisa. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you?

I'm very well. We're going to be answering questions. We've also got a couple of celebrities answering questions as well today. That's the thing on this show. If you're sending questions, occasionally we'll put your questions really to some quite impressive people. I think we've outdone ourselves this week. Yes. More on that later.

Before that, you're going to have to listen to boring old us answer some questions, I'm afraid. Hit me with one. You ready to go straight in? Danny has a question. Danny says, in a statement made by Brazilian footballer Georgineo, I tell you what, it's not often we start with that, is it? He has claimed that Chapel Rowan security guard made his daughter cry while on holiday.

This story's been all over the papers. After she seemed excited, they were both staying at the same resort. In your opinion, should you always just leave a celebrity alone? There are so many strands to this question. I agree, Georgineo. We loved him at Chelsea. He was an interesting advocate for this particular angle about stars and fans. What's the story here?

His current partner and actually her daughter with Jude Law, so it's not actually Georgino's daughter. Again, there's a lot of angles, which we have more time to get into. So, Georgineo is with the mother of Jude Law's child. Yeah, I mean, I think he's got seven children. This is a spider's web already. It is. Just park that for the moment.

We are going to have no time for those celebrity answers, I'm afraid. They're in Sao Paulo, Chapel Rowan's performing that night, and actually the daughter's got tickets. They happen to be in the same fancy hotel. And the daughter, just because they say, oh, she's over there, you know, the daughter doesn't confront. She's 11. She's also the most incredibly adorable little picture of her. She just walks past the table. Yeah.

That was like me with Dennis Healy on Hayward C station in 1979. Just walking past going, yeah, it's him. It's him. Dennis Healy was my Chapel Rowan. That should be the other type of your autobiography. I then suddenly, Dennis Healy's bodyguard pushes me onto the tracks. Yeah. He didn't really.

Well, a bodyguard who is obviously assumed to be Chapel Rowan's bodyguard, comes up and says to the mother of this girl, you need to control your daughter. You don't do that. You never behave like that. The girl's in tears, the whole thing, she doesn't end up going to the Chapel Rowan show that night. Chapel Rowan's then since posted saying, this bodyguard was not working for me. I kind of really entered the story because like what there's just a sort of random mercenary wandering around the hotel breakfast. But hang on a minute because this bodyguard, it's quite interesting.

This is the bodyguard who was the one who was supposed to be guarding Kim Kardashian when she had that awful, genuinely horrific experience in Paris when they break in, they tie her up and they steal all the jury. Now this guy, he really needs to go back to bodyguard school because he first of all, he didn't check the end. which is like a key part of bodyguard duties nowadays. She'd posted, and it included the location. Yeah, posted pictures of the jewelry. He'd gone out to a nightclub with Courtney and Kendall. I think the insurance company sued him personally in the end. So the bit I haven't got yet is what's on earth this freelance mercenary bodyguard is doing wandering around the hotel.

Redemption arc? And maybe trying to get in on her security team. Anyway, people have a thing about Chaparone because she said, I don't want fans coming up to me. And lots of things that are very sympathisable with, if that's a phrase in the modern era where people just feel like they have this parasocial relationship and you feel like you're never off and people do have far fewer boundaries. So she's, it's really bad for her reputation this and you can see that she's really,

and she's tried to find the hotel to say this person wasn't working with us. Because I think it makes her look dreadful because of things we already know about her and because of beliefs that some people just have like, you know, we pay your wages and you should be available to us at all times. Yeah. So in terms of, I don't think the girl for Georgineo's stepdaughter did anything wrong whatsoever in walking past the table. And I don't think any celebrity would really think that.

People do have this very, very weird way of behaving with celebrities. I mean, Billy Eilish said she was approached at a funeral for selfies. Adele just talked about being in the gym. Selena Gomez, who has lupus and requires various sort of hospital stays, has been approached by people in hospital. and we go back to the bad old days of the bad old days of the naughties and Britney Spears and people would just hang around hospital entrances. It's very odd what people do.

So many celebrities love people coming up to it. It can obviously become overwhelming, but a lot of people love to be told, I love you, you're fantastic. They are in the entertainment industry and I have to say that they often do like that. If they're having their breakfast, she didn't do anything wrong. She just walked past the table. But there is a time and a place. Yeah.

If you want basic etiquette, you can almost always. Certainly if you, by the way, if you just recognize someone from TV, do not go up to them. You say, remind you who you are. You like that, you just let people go back the day. If you're, if you, you know, for example, if you've watched someone's show or you've been to see them live or you bought a book or anything like that, it is absolutely your right.

You can go and say, hello, just want it. You know, it's nice to see you in the street. Absolutely, you can do that. The only times you wouldn't do it if someone is. Someone won't stop me when I was running for a train. Oh my God. Did you miss it? Yeah.

Because, of course, you have to stop. You can't. You know, no. So don't do that. Yes, if someone's with their kids and they're all chatting away, there's just, but again, it's common sense. But I would say, don't even worry about it. 99% of times anyone's ever approached me or anyone's ever approached people

have worked with, it's people, people instinctively know to do it. But if you do not really know who somebody is, you could just, the less someone knows you, the more of your time they will take up. That is for sure. Half of it will you be asking you to identify yourself? Yeah. Yeah, you did get, people go, sorry, where do I know you from? I'm literally, I am walking down the street.

You know, I get, you know, it's, you know, it's, oh, can I get a selfie? And you go, this is terrible. You say, if, if someone, I can't remember who told me this, but they said, if someone asks you for a selfie, just say, if you can tell me my name, you can have a selfie. I think Claudia Winkelman signed loads of autographs of Davina McCord just to make them happy. because they don't want her. They just wanted divina.

So she would, I don't think it happens quite so much now, but back in the day, she signed a lot of Davina calls. But that's the thing, it is, it's nice for everybody. But yeah, it's, if you don't know who's, if you don't know someone's name, don't approach them. But weird, bodyguarding. I mean, bodyguarding has become so well because so many of them are now, because there's a whole layer of, we've talked lots about this,

there's a whole new layer of celebrities that need bodyguards. So how many of these people are out live streaming, TikTokers, you know, YouTubers. You know where they are. If you saw Louis Therese Manosphere documentary, you see the HS Tiki-Toki, by the way, in my view,

is a kind of marauding presence. He's the one who apparently needs various bodyguards down in Puerto Beno in Mabea while he's going around sort of talking to women on the street who have not asked him to come up to them. So there's this whole layer of new people who want protecting.

It's also a status thing that people are saying, I want one for Saturday night. Because it looks like it's a way of being the big I am. You know, there's my bodyguard. You don't need a bodyguard. God, I don't want to know who's who you are, but there's a whole layer of people. So always in the, and some of the bodyguards have become stars themselves and become part, because if you're live streaming, you've just got to have this crew around you and they all

become part of the content in the end. And that's happened with so many YouTubers. So I would say that there's now a lot more bodyguards than there ever were. And clearly some of them just are wandering around hotel breakfasts, just trying to look proactive. I can't think of any other explanation. That's weird. We don't know his name, right? We do.

He's called Pascal Dube. Vivier. Is he? I should say he's actually come out and conceded he wasn't working for her. That's amazing. And he genuinely was just like freelance bodyguarding around the buffet. Wow. Not his exact words, but that's what he was doing.

He was in a dining room in a hotel. Was he looking after someone else? It's not, he didn't say that at all. In the statement, he doesn't say anything about that. He just says, I wasn't any to do with it. I wonder whether so much pressure has been brought to bear on him. And he's been told he'll never work in this industry again. But as I say, he will because so many people need them.

Didn't someone describe him as the Forrest Gump of celebrity drama? He's much more of an active agent in these moments, I think, because clearly the Paris thing was a huge veiling with Kim Kardashian. And here, again, as my children say, I didn't ask. What are you doing? I didn't ask you to bodyguard. A question from John Hunter here. I've never seen Titanic, and I never will. I know how it ends.

whenever I say this out loud, people shout at me. What film and TV series have you never and will never see? He's absolutely right. And I am terrible with this. There's lots of info. You've got masses. I hadn't seen Titanic, for example. But again, I sort of feel like I have seen it because I've seen like a million clips.

Like if you want to do a joke about Titanic, I'll know what it's about. They'll be on the prow of the ship or paint me like your French. I mean, all this stuff. Yeah, I know. I've heard all that stuff. You speak Titanic. Yeah, I speak Titanic. funnily enough I had a lot more blind spots for a married Ingrid because Ingrid would start talking to me about, you know, I think about the sound of music.

And I'll go, oh, I've never seen the sound of music. And she'd be like, I'm sorry. I go, well, I've never seen the sound of music. It is actually a deal breaker. You have never seen the sound of music. No, when would I have seen it? Don't want. We're in three hours you will have.

Would be my point. Yeah, exactly. And she would say, well, like growing up, I say, well, did you watch the 1979? In the FAA Cup final when Alan Sunderland scored in the last minute. No, you didn't. Well, that's what I was doing. That's the stuff that I was watching. Anyway, so I, listen, spoiler alert, I have now seen the sound of music.

Culturally, she completes you as well as in so many other ways. Absolutely does. And the sound of music, like all these things, I thought, well, I know this film. I've seen, because I've seen every single clip of it. And then you watch it, you go, oh, my God, this is amazing. This is why people like Sound of Music, right? There's a reason that some of these iconic films are iconic, because it got all those clips you've seen.

But in between it, you're like, oh, I didn't know this was going to happen in this film. So I hadn't seen sound of music now I have. I hadn't seen Top Gun, which for Ingra, I think, was even worse. She put that right almost immediately. I think it was almost like third date. Yeah. We had to go see Top Gunn. And again, what a great third date.

Yeah, it really was great at a drive-in. And it was, so I saw that. And again, I thought I'd seen all of it because I've seen so many clips of it. And you get to see all the in-between bits. I see something different every time. Exactly. It's very, very multi-layered. West Side Story I hadn't seen.

Now I have seen it. Mary Poppins I hadn't seen it. So where are my actual blind spots now? I would say almost every single Disney movie I have not seen and will never see. It just doesn't speak to me. And when my kids were growing up, the Pixar stuff was all coming out. So you know, you had monsters, ink, and you had Toy Story. You know, it was absolutely the golden age of that.

So those were the things that, you know, I watched with the kids. And I'd never watch the Disney when I was growing up. I will never watch Disney at all. TV-wise, I've got an Ingrid one and a non-Ingrid one. So I had never watched The Sopranos, right? But I had never watched The Sopranos for a different reason, which is not, oh, God, I'm not interested in watching the Sopranos. I knew that I was getting incredibly excited to watch the Sopranos at some point,

but I knew I wanted to watch it with somebody. And in my head, a tiny bit of me was going, I wonder if that person will show up. And very, very early on on a date with Ingrid, we were talking about TV. And I said, talk about the soprano. She goes, do you know what? I've never seen the sopranos. And the reason I never seen it is I want to watch it with someone.

And I keep waiting for that person to turn up. And so we're both like, oh, my God. This is so romantic. I love it. And then we both agreed we wouldn't start watching it until after we got married. Which is what we are now watching. We are now watching the sopranis. But it's absolutely that one of we were saving it for the right person.

And we found a white person. That is lovely. I know people who save things thinking when I'm really down, I'm going to have the whole of that because I know I'll love it. And I've got that as, you know, banked away. And I know lots of people who do that. But a TV thing I've never seen, I suspect I never will now. For reasons I can't really think of other than I think it would be a big investment now

and the time has gone. Game of Thrones. Never seen it. Don't think ever will see it. Have you got any? But I'm trying to think what they are. They're not immediately obvious to me. This is different.

But just to go back to John's point about, I never seen it and I never will. I know how it ends. John, I'm not besmirching this way, but it does slightly remind me of Michael Owen's funny thing. Like Michael Owen won't watch films. Is that right? You remind me of this. Michael Owen won't watch films because it's just people pretending and it's not real. It didn't happen.

The footballer Michael Owen. So what's the point? Yeah. It didn't happen. Yeah. Anyway, it's slightly reminded me of that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Titanic is not about the ending. It's about the craft. And by the craft, I don't mean the Titanic. because that sunk. Yes. Remember? Sorry, I was actually thinking about the craft Neff Campbell horror movie

which you probably haven't seen. I have not seen... Have you seen the little mix video for Black Magic which is basically a pure readacross? Little mix are like girls in high school and they're kind of nerds and then they drink a magic potion and then everybody falls in love with them and they become the cool girls.

That's Neve Canvall's the craft. That's the craft but done, ripped up. off as a little mix, an homage by a little mix. If I were to watch one of them, I should probably just do that because it'd be quick. Just watch a little mix video. Yeah, God, that's easier, isn't it? Anyway, thank you, John. On email, do send us in stuff that you have never watched,

particularly if there's an unusual reason for it or you just, you refuse. Because quite often, I always think that I think if one person tells you to watch something, you're like, no, if five people tell you to watch something, you watch it, if 12 people tell you to watch something, you think, oh, I don't know, what's this thing everyone's talking about. So it's that sweet spot, but do let us know if you have, so I, so I, I, I, I would say that the Disney and Game of Thrones are my two big blind spots. And I don't think, I don't think I would ever fix them.

Let's go to a break. And then after our break, we will get to those celebrity answers, which I'm excited for. Some big celebrities as well. Yeah. Welcome back, everybody. Now, we promise you celebrities. Who is the lucky listener who's had their question answered by a celebrity? Alex Booth, your question has been answered by a big celebrity.

Now, Alex Booth has this question. How do actors know when is time to say goodbye to a show? Is it tough to know when to go out? on a high. Literally, there's sort of a show about that, which is the comeback, the Lisa Kudrow show that's currently on HBO. That's someone who finished on the highest profile show of all time. So we just thought maybe, rather than us answer it, Alex, we would get Lisa Kudrow to answer it. Also, because it's about the comeback, Michael Patrick King, who's one of the writers on that show, who has interesting things to say about when writers

want to leave shows as well. So Lisa and Michael here answering that question. I mean, for some actors, yeah, they want to go out on a high. And, you know, on friends, I guess. Yeah, we went out when we were still, I think, number one or behind number two, behind Survivor or something. But, yeah, I think also for some people, they feel like it's the stories are getting strained, you know. And the writers also have a say in when it's done because they feel the stories are getting strained. getting strained. So I know for us there was an agreement. And on the comeback, yeah, Michael and I, we kind of share a brain when it comes to this show. It's true. I mean, the thing is, it does come

from the writing first. Lisa could, I believe Lisa could play Valerie forever, but as writers, we created it, and we really like that it's been kind of a dense experience, and we wouldn't want to water it down. It became the brand of the show that we come back and then go. And this time we're not coming back. We're just here to enjoy the last comeback. Yeah. Now it's a full piece, right? It would have been weird if it was two seasons and then okay, that's not a thing. But a third makes it a trilogy and a whole piece. Also, I think it's important to, as writing, you leave your main character where you want her to be. And we're both very, very happy about where Valerie landed.

Yeah. Oh, I mean, you know how much I love this show. The comeback, yeah, it's your absolute favourite. As you're so right, it is now a trilogy. It's really, and there's stuff about it coming from writers as well. Yeah. Because sometimes you're not in kind of lockstep as to when it's over. I know when they came to do succession, which was obviously at the absolute peak of everything,

it was such a huge and culturally, you know, celebrated show. and of course they could have done more. And I remember, you know, Jesse talking about it saying, you know, I started Jesse Armstrong, who created it, saying I started thinking, could we go around again? But actually, I felt, no, we can't do this and then have a fifth season. We'll do, we'll finish it here because having talked it through. And it's really good when people just feel like they're not, they're not going to just flog it for the sake of it because it's just this huge behemoth. Also, I know other people who have been, and I know that there are. shows where actors you see in the later series of it,

sometimes I wasn't quite sure what was happening in later series of something like Viet where I was thinking, I'm not sure that was your original character, but actors want to do something different. And they feel like they've done the same things many, many times. It's like, funny enough, we're on season nine of the American Office at the moment, and Ed Helms' character is completely different. You think, oh, I don't know about this. But I think Lisa Kudrow's point is interesting there.

So if you're an actor leaving a show or ending a show or a writer ending a show is two different things. As an actor, you are very, very visible on that. You know, you are literally, and you're giving of yourself emotionally all the time. And as an actor, you think, but I do want to do the next thing. I do want to do the next thing. And I don't want people to get bored with me. So that's an interesting place to be. But as a writer, this is not always necessarily true, but quite often, as a writer of a show,

you have been working an awful lot longer and an awful lot harder on that show than an actor has. Because an actor will come in and they work their socks off. But a writer has been doing this for years and years. and years and years and years and years. And we'll often understand the limitations of a character has been pushed to exactly where they can be pushed to, and they have to do something else. So I think usually if a show is a hit,

there's always pressure on you to keep doing it. There's always pressure on you to keep taking the money. And especially in American TV, the money goes up and up and up and up and up. But good actors and good writers usually go, I've taken this as far as I'm going to take it. And you could tell with Michael Patrick King talking there, that understanding that as a writer, there was a story to be told. He felt it had been told.

Lisa, as the actor, feels it has been told as well. It doesn't matter what they offer you to do another series. It's like writing a book, I've got to the end of the book. Let's close the book. You know, it's like Claudia and Tess leaving strictly in it, you know? The dream is you do it together and there's not some. Yeah, I think that's definitely the case. Yeah, they do say never quit the hit.

But I think sometimes that's wrong. I think sometimes you have to just kind of go, you have to know when to leave the stage, right? Right. How about a question actually for you rather than for Lisa Goodrow? Is that all right? Oh, no, what if people switch off? Yeah. They go, I really like when Lisa Cochro answers it.

Trust me. Isabel has a question for you. Last week we talked about Macuffins. Isabel said, I love your discussion about Macuffins. But what are your favorite examples of Chekhov's gun in movies? Can you explain to people what Chekhov's gun is? Yeah, Chekhov's gun in screen writing, movie writing is anything that's introduced and that you see, any element, it's not just sort of there randomly. It has a point and that point is sort of paid off later.

And it comes from originally the phrase Chekhov's gun, Chekhov said, you cannot have a gun on stage and have it not go off. And it relates to the Seagull. Yeah, I'm not going to be masses of spoilers throughout all of this. Yeah. And so the point of that whole thing is, if something is introduced in a. film, a piece of information, a piece of backstory, an object, and it seems to bear no relation to anything that happens from that moment on, at the end of the film, it will become important. So the idea would be never, ever show a gun if it's not going to be fired.

And in something like Sean of the Dead, where it's a literal gun, the pub they go to all the time is called the Winchester, and there's a Winchester rifle up above the bar, and then eventually that you will see that rifle get you. is. Yeah, it's an absolute basic tenet of any of, if you're interested at all in either watching or writing, is if something crops up, if something is mentioned, if something is even alluded to, it will later be used. I mean, that you don't waste anything. You can't just sort of go off on the kind of flights of fancy. Anything you do has to sort of be drawn back in at some point. And Czechos gun is sort of, is the term we use for that, which is don't introduce

something that then disappears. I really love it when it's done brilliantly. So to think of top three was quite hard. I'm including... I mean, I have to say, Isabel doesn't ask for top three. It's interesting that now... Favit examples. I can't help my stuff now. I know exactly. Now you've been institutionalised. I've absolutely got to you. She's absolutely allowing you to be open-ended about it. You've... You're right. Well, I have mentioned shorter than that. I'm going to have to mention the next Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, all those guys. Hot Fuzz, where it's so many things. It's ridiculous.

It's almost sort of, it's a joke about it, really. Every single little thing that you see at the start or in Act 1 is paid off in Act 3. Again, things I've watched recently, which are at top of my mind. I would say the Pimboard in the usual suspects, I'll leave it at that. But I think ultimately I have to say, because I love it so much, think it's so brilliant, is Back to the Future. The Whole of Back to the Future, which I watched again recently, you know, it was a film that there was so hard for them to get off the ground. They just tried so many different ways of getting that film off the ground.

It's directed by Bob Zemeckerson, it's written by him and a guy called Bob Gale. And there were all these raunchy teen comedies at the times, kind of racy things, and it wasn't like that at all. And anyway, they managed to get it made. If you've got time, just go and watch the first scene again, every single

thing in that first scene, before you even see a human, you see someone on the news talking about the stolen not uranium plutonium. There are all the clocks. There's so many things in the first scene before you've seen any human at all, save the clock, all these things that happen, everything is paid off. It is so satisfying. It is so much more sophisticated than the raunchy teen comedies that were almost preventing it being made. It is, and the way, and it's done in such a light-touched way, and I remember watching it

in cinemas and thinking, oh, that's so cool. And you knew you could watch it all fitting back together as a puzzle in such a beautiful way, and it feels so light-touch, even though it's quite a complicated plot, to get people to understand those kind of temporal loom. and wormholes and all that sort of thing. Even things like the family photos where he's fading out of them, that's a sort of check of scar. And it's also a TikTok on the whole, like, can I make all these other things work together in concert

to save my family and save the film and save my existence? I think it's absolutely brilliant that. And it's so accessible and so mainstream. And when you're watching it, you're not in any doubt that like, oh, there was a point to that. Someone's saying, save the clock tower handing the leaflet. All of it has a point. And I love it.

so fun and it's it's just joyful. But it is, Chekhov's Gunn is the perfect thing. If you're watching things, you really want to understand how things are put together is, you know, like whenever someone sort of at the end

is tied up by a vidan, you think, how are they going to get out of this? And then suddenly a Lesotho comes in and he goes, oh my God, they talked about going to radio school. Yeah. They literally talked about it. And I thought it was just a bit of conversation and stuff.

It sort of actually spoors almost all movies when you realize that every single thing is going to come back. Every thing, you think, oh, of course, that's good. So they have, you cannot leave a loop opened. But when it's done so lightly, yeah, yeah. That you're not really aware of it happening and you suddenly,

but also it feels impossible that all of those things could be paid off. And it feels impossible actually when you're watching the first, even three minutes of the first scene of Back to Future, that all of those things can be completely integral to the plot. Yeah. It's like how lovely it is and it sort of shows you when it's set. And it shows you kind of how people get through the day that, you know, Andy Dufrane has a poster of Rita Hayworth on his wall.

You think, oh, that's cute. He's got a picture of Rita Hayworth. And, you know, it's not kind of... And then, oh, the poster has changed to Brigitte Bardot. And it just shows that, you know, time is moving on. And, you know, anyone who's seen Shawsham Redemption, those, that is not what is happening there. They're sort of Chekhov's guns.

But just those things where at the end, where you think, well, how on earth has this happened? And you go, that thing they mentioned. Yeah. Oh, my God, it was that thing that they mentioned. ages ago. I've had so many screenwriters and writers with such a long WhatsApp argument this week about what a McGuffin is, by the way. Oh my God, don't talk to me about it. So, yeah, I've had to, I've had a type five hours of hearing about it. I've got a, can I tell you that we found

a form of words in the end that we all agreed with that as to what a McGoffin is. By the way, and everyone was talking about Kiss Me Deadly, which is that, which is the Mickey Spillane movie, which has absolutely kind of the original golden suitcase. thing. But here's the definition of McGuffin that we were all it was like the Kyoto Protocols and we all went okay this is acceptable. The Mcuffin is the bit that explains

the motivation but doesn't need to be in and of itself explained. There we go. That's all we've got. I mean, we're now going to have to spend the next week to finding what a Chekhov's gun is. Yes. I mean, I see Alfred Hitchcock was not on your group. He was not. If he'd been on your group, he would have

and George Lucas would have said a different thing too. But again, I'm sad he's not on your group. He could be on your group. Spielberg is, of course. Okay. Question about medical accuracy from Nadia. What are the bonuses and negatives of a medical procedural TV show trying to be so realistic? Again, listen, it's a good question.

We know what she's asking it. Well, because literally the single most realistic medical show of all time, probably the pit has just started on HBO Max. So, Nadia, it's a really good question. We wanted to talk about it in relation to the pit. but they thought, again, why would we talk about it? So who did we ask? No, Wiley. We set out to sort of make this a love letter to first responders

to talk about the work that they do and that they've been doing especially since COVID. And we wanted that to be, you know, as honest to look as we possibly could make it. And we at one time had made a show that was the most accurate medical show of all time and didn't really want to travel, traveled road or touch hallowed ground. So we were looking to do something as different as we possibly could. So taking the music out and really focusing on just one day of a shift and really getting into the minutia of what's happening in a hospital seemed like a really great opportunity. And I think audiences are appreciating the specificity of detail.

The downside is that when you come off so much like a documentary that any dramatic license you take or lapses in your storytelling become pronounced. as critiques. And so we fall into this sort of gray area of like, you know, it's not a documentary, but it's as realistic as we can make a television series. Sure, you're always bucking up against reality about these cases. But oftentimes, you know, it's that pushback that creates the diamond under the pressure. You know, that's the dialogue that you arrive at, because if you want two different opinions, ask two different doctors.

And sometimes if you have three doctors on your writing staff, And one says that would never happen. The other one says it at the breath, except for the time I did it. And then you finally have a scene because you've got two points of view on a subject matter that's worth exploring. And of course, the show he's talking about before is ER, which you also starred in which is this amazing bloodline between these two medical procedural shows. I love that it's literally like being a patient and just saying, I am going to need a second opinion. Yeah. And how many of these things can actually happen if you've got one guy who says it's happened.

Yeah, it is difficult on all of those things when you're writing them. and so many people, you know, are very, very particular in writing things and thinking, if it hasn't really happened, then I don't want it to be in my show. And there is definitely a sort of a case for that. However, I do think that people who just do not allow any license in any of these things, just go and hang around an A&A. If that's what you want to watch, you have to allow some. And I never get really annoyed by, even if someone's writing, say there's been lots of

things written about journalism over the years, of course. And you're watching a newspaper office, the people who go straight in line to say, that would never happen. It's like, okay, I'm so interested that you'll now care about accuracy. But really, you see something set in a tabloid and like all these people come on saying, that would never happen. It's like, okay, come on. We'll do, you know, and I've worked in a tabloid, so be fair. I do think that I never bother sort of saying that because there has to be some. Yeah, exactly. And you were feeling your books. It has to be. Yeah, exactly. You have to, could it happen? Great. And if it could happen, what is the most interesting, what is the most funny, what is the most dramatic version of it happening? And that's what you try and do. Just on a sidebar, what a dude, Noah Wiley is. So cool. Wow, what a career as well. I haven't been spoken about it before, but the pit really is extraordinary. It's a weird one because we've had to wait so long for it in the UK. Usually stuff comes out. But, you know, they've been going crazy about it in America for so long. and waiting until you're going to be having this thing back.

Well, listen, that's worked. So thank you, listeners. Thank you to our very, very good pal, Noah Wiley. Thank you to one of our very best mates, Lisa Kudrow, old pal of ours. No, but thank you so much for answering this. It's much appreciated. Please don't be disappointed. Listeners, if you get a question read out and it's boring old meal marina answering it,

but we do like occasionally to have a few little surprises in there too. To go to the experts. Right. We're back tomorrow for our members with a bonus episode, first of a series about The Spice Girls. So there's a lot in it. There's a lot going on there. There's a lot in it. If you want to become a member, it's www.com. You can sign up there. But otherwise, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.