The Rest Is Entertainment - The Secrets Of Channel 4’s Hunted

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Richard and Marina go inside Hunted, one of Channel 4’s recent success stories. What’s real? Is there producer interference? What techniques can help you avoid the hunters? The move to streaming has not only meant a loss to of buying DVDs, but the loss of the directors commentary. Will we ever get to enjoy the art of it again? Plus the journalists standing by their sources, Saturday Night Live and how actors battle through illness. Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club for ad free listening and access to bonus episodes: www.therestisentertainment.com Sign up to our newsletter: www.therestisentertainment.com Twitter: @‌restisents Instagram: @‌restisentertainment YouTube: @‌therestisentertainment Email: [e-mail] Producers: Neil Fearn + Joey McCarthy Assistant Producer: Aaliyah Akude Video Producer: Jake Liascos Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Visit Sky.com to find out more 🌏 Get our exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/trie It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✅ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are delighted to announce that our good friends at Sky are once again proud partners of the rest as entertainment. We are extremely delighted Marina. Sky has a huge 2025 planned and they're excited to share their unrivaled range of entertainment which has never been easier to discover. And there is no better way to enjoy their selection of new shows and films than by using SkyTV. SkyOS powers the SkyTV experience and it lets you control your SkyTV with your voice so you can find your favourite shows and movies from Sky and the other apps without lifting a finger, my favourite way. Oh, I love not lifting a finger, I love not lifting a finger. Just say hello Sky, followed by what you want to watch, who you want to see and it will be on your screen before you know it.

Without having to lift a finger you can get all your favourite entertainment quickly with both Sky shows and other apps in one place. Visit sky.com to find out more. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment Questions and Answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond. Lots of questions for you, although something terrible just happened which is our producer Joey was just on the phone saying, oh, you've got the pizzas Have you oh, you know, just send them in and we thought we were getting pizza But actually it was on like a ring doorbell for the goalhanger offices and they're getting pizza I've been crushed really quite badly in the last few minutes

So I want to apologize if I'm just sound a bit morose Unexpected pizza we were so excited. Yeah. Anyway, listen listen that's that's by the by isn't it it is by the by many have written in with suggestions of other things that are annoying them that they're seeing in TV dramas or movies or movie cliches yeah and TV cliches because there are quite a lot a few of these ones this is a good one Luke Anderson says overenthusiastic throngs of reporters caring about relatively mundane crime cases yes there's not even enough money to cover anything other than the most high-profile crime cases. Ben, and this is an adjunct to that, but he's 100% right.

He says, main characters answering the phone saying, are you watching this? Finding the remote immediately, switching on the TV directly to the news, and catching the story developing at an important part of the exact same bulletin or report that the caller is talking about. That's a really good one. And that's been going on for years. I mean, you sort of, I mean, you slightly have to a little bit, you know, it has to, you have to put your exposition somewhere and, you know, if you can get Krishnan Gurumurthy to stand in front of the courts of justice and do it for you, then why not? But yeah,

yeah, all like local news and they're literally just talking about, you know, someone's lock up garage. Have you seen that? Have you seen that? Yeah, it's on the news about hmm. Yes. Although the local news is obviously by far and away the top rated show on the whole of British television. That's another thing we should always talk about. I'm just saying they wouldn't do a thing about a lock up garage. Yeah, no they wouldn't. They've got more important things to be talking about, which is why their ratings are so high. They absolutely are. Okay, Alyssa Manuel says,

"'Curtains always open at night time.' This is a big one. I always feel very odd when I'm watching that. You feel like, well, of course you are supposed to be a slightly like the criminal voyeur as you're looking through. Yeah, I remember like walking down a row of houses once, but five, six years ago, it was dark,

it must have been winter, it was dark. And there were three or four different houses that were all, I could see their curtains weren't closed and they were all watching pointless and I thought I'm gonna go up and just bang on the window. But of course I didn't. But people do leave their curtains open, I think. You know, I think people don't think that they can be seen

because they can't see out. No. But you know, that's not how physics works. No. Is it physics? Yeah it's physics isn't it? Light and stuff. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Well I mean we'll probably hold off doing the science spin-off of this show. Okay. Now shall we get on to some questions? Catherine Thompson has a question for you Marina. Do people still create DVD commentaries for movies or has that drifted off along with DVD sales? Can you watch a film with Glenn Powell narrating what it was really like to be in a twister?

Well you know how to get my attention Catherine. That's so clever mentioning Glenn Powell in a question. Just put Glenn Powell in any question in case I haven't mentioned it in that week. It's interesting DVD sales are not doing as badly as you think they are and there are a number of reasons for this and certainly things like Blu-ray and special editions 4k stuff. This is a bit of a, I'm beginning with a bit of a for this and certainly things like Blu-ray and special editions 4k stuff this is a bit of a I'm beginning with a bit of a sidebar which isn't right but people really don't like in lots of ways how the platform serve up these films and they've been edited or the sounds been messed up we've talked about the sound mixing before and how they kind of

mess it up when they put it on the platforms platforms so people really like if they're gonna watch it lots and lots of times you were told it was going to be infinite choice but actually people don't like the versions of the films that are often on the streaming platforms and so lots of times you were told it was going to be infinite choice, but actually people don't like the versions of the films that are often on the streaming platforms. And so lots of people actually do still buy Blu-ray and 4k and they also like to own it. Right. Yeah. And in video download and in digital rental, that's actually had an uptick last year. However, however, there is a however, it does take a certain amount of the actors time and the directors time and the studios used to pay people to

pay the actors and the directors to do this but the DVD commentary was really big because don't forget they made so much money of DVD sales and movies could not be successful really and then you make it all back off the DVDs There was a period of very films are making the money. Oh my god. Comedians were making. Oh my god Oh people like The Office Ricky and Ricky and Stephen Merchant doing... Millions upon millions upon millions. It was an absolute gold rush. There was a very short boom time where if you sold the sale of DVDs, people just became incredibly rich from that. If you were Peter Kay or as you say Ricky and Stephen or something, in those years it was an absolute bonanza.

Or even if you were like a bit-pop player on The Office, you know, that absolutely kept you in house. And movies that failed at the box office, it didn't matter because you always made it back on the DVDs. Anyway, so they used to pay the talent to do them basically. But, so I'm watching Goodfellas on, I don't know where it's streaming currently in the UK, but they don't have any of that director's company. They don't have any of those things that they used to have.

The streaming platforms don't buy those things and you can't get them. And the thing about this, they were really popular. They're sort of lost. They will become lost artifacts because people absolutely love them. I actually spoke to a couple of people who were one person who works in cinematography and one person who is a director who said, I couldn't afford to go to film school and I learned on the job, but I learned so much from watching DVD commentaries. 100%. And I learnt such a lot, you know, because you could, there were lots of bits that you

or I, if we might not be hugely interested in cinematography, didn't watch, but people did watch those bits. Yeah, and if you hear Martin Scorsese or, you know, Edgar Wright or someone talking you through a shot, you will learn more than, it's just, it's priceless. So some directors really understood this because they understood that so many people in their industry didn't have the money to go to film schools and things like that and learn a lot from these things and started putting them on personal websites and telling you when to hit play so you can watch the DVD commentary, you know, like a really analogue version of

sort of doing it. There's some great watch along podcasts as well, aren't there? Yeah, but the studios don't give those things to Netflix or whoever's streaming them because they still sell DVDs and it's interesting actually, the sales of DVDs is down but it's still very very strong. I went to a shop but not in London recently and they had miles and miles of all the series you've just seen on TV in DVD form and they they sell well and I think they went down sort of two or three or four percent last year but they still sell very well and they do make money off them but I do think those

commentaries are slightly becoming lost artifacts and people are trying to sort of save them in any way they can because you learnt a lot from them and you learnt a lot about the film. And the time that they used to spend doing those sorts of things it was always like you'd film something and then you'd know that like a month afterwards you're going to do the director's commentary or you know the fifth anniversary one came out and you did a different director's commentary. Now if you go on to any film set, any TV set, pretty much any time you've got 10 minutes someone from the socials is coming along and saying could you do a little thing where Timothy Chalamet is going to read out tweets and they're either about you or him and the two of you have to guess,

or Glenn Powell has got some American snacks and Tom Hardy's got some British snacks and they're going to try this. Can you just try the snacks, the two of you? And it's just for socials. So your entire life is spent having to do short little clips for TikTok or Instagram. And you know, the days when you had- And that takes all the oxygen of the time that you would have talked about other things. Yeah. Where you could be talking about the craft

of your movie and you know, works pretty well when it works. But that's the real sort of lake of mediocrity that's going to be dredged in 10, 20 years time is all of those social media stunts for films that didn't work. Yeah. And you'll look back and just go, wow, just the sort of hope in the eyes of these people who were eating a banana for the first time. The waste of human endeavor. The absolute waste of human endeavor. Well, it's just two actors are thinking,

I could be in my Winnebago now. And instead I'm having to eat what's it's. Yeah, but the stuff that's on Blu-ray and special edition DVDs, it's still there. And it's still really, really good. And directors are particularlyu-ray and special edition DVDs, it's still there and it's still really, really good. And directors are particularly good at it and like doing it as well because, you know, there's lots of decisions and compromises they've had to make or that there's reasons

why shots look in a certain way and they love to be able to give that behind the scenes chat about it as well. And to sort of pay it forward because they watch so many of themselves. Exactly. Here's a question for you, Richard. I have some views on this. Sean Grant, why don't we have our own version of Saturday Night Live? Yeah, people often ask that in the same way, why don't we have our own version of Jimmy

Fallon or those sorts of things. Something not very funny like SNL. We just have a, you're not a fan? Oh my god. And we did have it in the 80s, We had Saturday Live and then became Friday Night Live and Ben Elton was on it and Rick and Aide and people on it. So it's an amazing group of people. Attempts to recreate those sort of American things like The Daily Show or whatever, they

just often don't translate. They often don't translate and you can't pay people enough to sort of keep them on retainer for five years to do the same show in the same way they can with Americans. You know, if you're Rick and Aide, then of course you'll do a couple of sketches for them, but then you're immediately off doing your sitcom and something else because you have to make money. Whereas actually you can make a lot of money being on SNL for a few seasons. So we don't have that same repertory company idea because we don't have the money.

We have lots of- And all those endless improv troupes that they come up via, we don't have the money we have lots and all those endless in improv troops that they come up but we don't Have those places like second city in Chicago all those places where they Big sort of proving grounds for them people in the UK tend to come up via the clubs and via Stand up and things like that or as I say vice get shows Whereas whereas, you know, the the improv thing in America is absolutely huge and you can you can see I have some affection for Saturday nights Live and there's some wonderful documentaries you can see I have some affection for Saturday Nights Live and there's some wonderful documentaries you can see now on Peacock I think about

the 50th anniversary and you see all the original audition tapes and lots and lots of different things to do. I like the history of it all there's a good James Andrew Miller really good one called Live from New York which is an oral history of Saturday Night Live that's really good as a book. And I really recommend that, but the show itself, I can't get behind. I also love the film Saturday Night, which has just come out as well, which is a really, really good watch. And listen, it's made for clips, isn't it? That's why actually it's been going 50 years because just as it was running out of steam, we get to the stage where if you've got a series of clippable things with very famous people, then there's a home for them.

You know, it's also where people go when they're promoting things. So you get big names, you get big stars, boosting it. It has a very clever thing of having different hosts each week, which, you know, in the same way that I've got news for you over here does, but yeah, we don't have that culture. We have a culture of panel shows. We have a culture of standups doing things on TV and we have a culture of panel shows, we have a culture of stand-ups doing things on TV and they have a culture of sketch and troops and things like that and so it's just one of those things and same way we don't have

late-night shows. And massive writing staffs which is what is taken for that. But all of that is money. I mean Channel 4 did the 11 o'clock show and the 11 o'clock show is a perfect example of why we don't have SNL over here, because it launched Jimmy Carr, Sacha Baron Cohen, and Ricky Gervais. All of whom have gone on to enormous success, but they all went on to enormous success immediately, because they just had other places they could go on television, and the other places they could make money, and they weren't making money from this thing that was on. It all day, every day.

And so they went and did other stuff, you know, whereas in America, the three of them, if they'd stuck around for five years on this show, if they'd had someone like Lorne Michaels in charge of that, if they'd had a huge budget, if they'd had, you know, golden handcuffs deal and been paid $3 million a year, they probably would have stuck around for five years and that would have established itself as a big show, but they didn't, they would have got paid, got paid you know a few grand at the show and immediately there were other opportunities for them and they took those opportunities and went and did. Primarily I just don't think it's culturally not everything is culturally transplantable lots of things are but then certain things are not and those kind of late night comedy things have there's there's really been a kind of never the

twain shall meet thing in many different attempts doing American formats. And by the way, in there taking some of our formats and trying to do them over there, it just, it's just been something about it that hasn't quite gelled. ITV had their nightly show as well, which they tried to do with different hosts each week. You know, people keep trying to do it. It's just not something we feel that we lack over here. And now of course we're never going to get it because these things are topical and there's absolutely zero money in topical comedy anymore. And

you know, never underestimate as well the power of an individual. And Lorne Michaels, who saw that show right through from the beginning and all the books about it will tell you all sorts of things about him. He's certainly an acquired taste and you know, he's a hard taskmaster, obviously very talented as well, but his force of personality probably saw that over a few humps. Which in the UK probably would have been taken off air, I suspect. And actually he did it for long enough that a next generation of comics who grew up watching it all wanted to be on it. And then the next generation of comics all wanted to be on it. And so it's a combination of an awful lot more money than over here, a combination

of the individual personality of Lorne Michaels, and also that our standups immediately look for money elsewhere and you have to you can't just rely on one show, you can't rely on a contract for a year or two years with one show. We just we don't have the infrastructure. Right. Shall we now go to a break? Oh my god, I absolutely love that. Let's do it. As we mentioned earlier in the show, we're delighted that Sky are once again proud partners of The Rest is Entertainment.

Sky is full of unmissable shows, including the brand new series, season three of The White Lotus, which we have enjoyed very much indeed. We've spoken about it before on the show. We love The White Lotus, and our regular listeners will remember we have talked about it on the main show before.

Following the massive success of the first two seasons. The White Lotus series three is already one of the most talked about TV events of the year. Jason Isaacs is in this new one. Amy Lee Wood from Sex Education is in it. Walton Gognos is amazing in it. I love him so much. Patrick Schwarzenegger who plays the single most annoying character ever in the history of television. It's so brilliant. White Lotus means something, but in the history of television, I agree. And the setting is absolutely gorgeous as always. And of course, like all good TV series, Richard, it contains a murder. Starts with a murder. You've got to start with a murder created by Mike White Luxury Resort in

Thailand. Even though there are murders and all sorts of things going on, like ratings and bookings have gone absolutely through the roof for that place. But we loved The White Lotus, all three seasons available on Sky right now. Watch the brand new series of The White Lotus on Sky. Search SkyStream or Skyglass or visit sky.com to find out more. Welcome back everybody. A question for you about sources. Not that sort of source. No. The journalistic source from C. Wiley begins, I was going to say he, it could be a lady. It could be a lady. She slash he says, you've spoken before about when newspapers preface

a quote with a source closer to what is usually made up. We know that, but journalists also have legitimate sources and C. Wiley's question is about that. With know that, but journalists also have legitimate sources and see why this question is about that. With legitimate sources, is it the journalist discretion if the sources kept anonymous and for how long? I was watching the Boyzone documentary and Raf Singh declined to identify his Stephen Gatley source from 25 years ago. You're quite right, there is a difference between like sources close to, a close pal, whatever. That's all made up as I've said before and it just because it looks good to have a bit of reporter's speech and looks like someone has told you this. The actual source of a story is different and it could be anyone. You could get a story

for all sorts of different channels. But the number one obligation a journalist is supposed to have is to never reveal their sources. This is absolutely drummed into. Your source should be able to tell you something and you never reveal who they are. That's the point of a free press, isn't it? That is the point. And your contract should persist to even when, by the way, you may be taken to court, you're supposed to even be willing to go to prison rather than reveal your source. There's no sort of legal protection but for having a source. Say a source tells me something and I write a story and then I get sued over it. Now I can go back to my source and

say, will you go on the record, if I believe it to be true, maybe I've been given false information, in which case, bad luck, we're going to have to pay a lot to the person who's been libeled. You could say, will you go on the record? Most sources don't want to do that. They don't want to go to court. They don't want to become part of it all. There's a reason they were anonymous. Exactly. There's an injustice or an interesting story. They want it to be out there. They do not want the backlash. We all know if you cause trouble at work or something, it's an enormous pain for you. But what are you going to do if someone's behaving in a certain way?

Or you're someone's assistant and you're selling stories on them. Not very nice, but it happens and that's whatever. There's whistleblowers and there's money makers. And then there's money makers. Okay. But you should never reveal your source. You have an obligation to them. Now, you're supposed to have a duty of care. Now, that doesn't always happen. There's a journalist called Isabel Oakeshott, who as far as I can work

out, she's failed her sources twice. There was a Vicki Price who was married to a cabinet minister called Chris Hune. Chris Hune. How soon we forget. Yeah, how soon we forget. They had this story where, you know, he'd got some speeding points on his license, and because he was up to nine points or whatever, she had said, I was driving the car and I took them, this is an illegal thing to do. She told Isabel Oakeshott this, and the story was written in, I think, the Sunday Times. And because it was an illegal act, and he was a cabinet minister, they were asked to reveal their

sources. And they say, I think remember saying, we were forced by a judge to give up our correspondence, along with our agreement with Vicki. So they revealed her as the source. They didn't actually even go to the appeal court, by the way. They said they were going to, but they folded before and they didn't certainly didn't go to prison. And then Vicki Price ended up going to prison because of this. Why did she tell Isabel Oakeshott though? Well, this is the next person who we were thinking, why did they tell Isabel Oakeshott is Matt Hancock, who for some reason did his pandemic diaries with

Isabel Oakeshott, a journalist who as far as I can work out is implacably imposed to the whole of lockdown. So for whatever reason, he gave her all his texts and all his WhatsApp and all his everything, and she sort of ghost wrote the pandemic diaries. And then shortly afterwards just gave all of that stuff from her source to the Telegraph. So twice as far as I can work out, she hasn't been responsible to her sources. But even if you think that what Rav Singh wrote was very bad and the Stephen Gaethne story, I have a huge amount

of sympathy with that. But you nonetheless should not reveal your source because otherwise it all falls apart if you don't have a duty of care to the people who reveal things to you. And it's supposed to be that you'll just go to the wall for these people. But as I have just illustrated, people don't always. Some people don't, but some people do. Is there also, I was wondering when I watched that, I've recommended that documentary before, it's brilliant. And I'm not saying this about Raf Singh, but in that generation when the source was often an illegally hacked phone, do you then say I cannot reveal my source? Because to reveal your source essentially is to say

there was a private investigation. Oh, you can say that about anything. But if you get sued, and this was a story which you were not going to get sued on, if you get sued, you are going to have to produce some evidence or you're going to have to pay out. So you can always say I won't reveal my sources. And maybe it was just something you heard

on the grapevine or everybody knew it was an open secret or whatever people say about all sorts of things. But if required to defend it in court, you're going to have to have something better than that. Otherwise, you're going to be paying out a libel settlement or in some cases, if you really did have a source and you're protecting them, you're supposed to, if necessary, go to prison rather than say who they were. But that said there is often genuinely a real public interest thing in a journalist saying I'm not going to disclose my source. It's been slightly sullied by as you say people who will reveal their source or people whose source was illegally obtained but there is

a large group of journalists who absolutely rely on whistleblowers or people inside organizations or people in countries where there's not freedom of press who get information, write that information and their job is to protect that source. It's the number one rule from deep throat, from Watergate downwards, you just you don't say who it was. So if you hear that, do not dismiss it as someone, you know, being meanie-mouthed, it is the single most important thing that a lot of journalists do. But a source close to. That's like the close pal and the onlooker. Yeah, they've made it up. That's an invented thing.

That's like critics say when it's someone from Twitter said. Yeah. Oh, this is one for you, Richard, from Matthew G. Having watched the final episode of Celebrity Hunted last night, we were wondering how much production support the hunters get. Are they given pointers to ensure they capture people regularly enough or they're left alone to find them like they would in real life? People often ask about Hunted. I think it's the most interestingly produced show on television in a funny kind of way. It's an intriguing thing if you've not watched it, but a group

of people always in pairs go off on the run and have to evade a series of hunters and the hunters have essentially everything at their disposal that the British state would have, which is number plate recognition, which is CCTV, which is the ability to go into people's social media, all of those things, the ability to interview people's friends and associates. So they have essentially the powers of the state, but copied. They do not actually have access to CCTV. They do not actually have access to number plate recognition. But if the people who are on the run would have tripped those things in the course of what it is they're doing, then the producers are allowed to say to the hunters, by the way...

They're in a car registration, whatever. then the producers are allowed to say to the hunters, by the way, they're in a car registration, whatever. Yes, exactly. And they were on this road and, you know, you can recreate all of those things in post. So no one is cheating at any point. The producers are not going, tipping the wing and saying, Oh, by the way, they're on the A1. But the producer who's with the couple will report back and say, Oh, by the way, they would have tripped this here

and therefore that is information that the hunters would get. So it's real in that way. And if they take a road which wouldn't have tripped that camera or they walk across fields, the producer would say, I have no information for you. If they go into a shop somewhere and there is a CCTV camera or they use a bank card, which again, the hunters don't actually have access to because they're not the British state. But the producers will say, they have used this bank card, this bank statement, and they've used this CCTV.

The couples who are hunted know that as well, by the way, and you'll see them take risks sometimes, but they know that they're gonna be seen. So the couples at all time will have a producer with them. People always say, oh, but isn't obviously they are because there's a big camera crew and there's not a big camera crew. It's a, it's a person with go pros.

It's a very small group of people. So actually you don't stick out in that way. They each have a support vehicle, which will be following light race across the world, which one would never see. It's just there in case it's ever needed. Of course, the producers know where the people are all times because they know where their producer is. So, and they have to know that because they're producing the show. The rule that it's not always obvious in that show, they do say it a lot, but people still keep

asking the same thing. People saying, oh, I would just hold up in a hotel. They have to move. They have to move every two days. They simply have to. And their money is taken off them. And there's a limit to how much money they could take for, you know, they couldn't have like a rich benefactor giving them like a load of money and holding them up somewhere. and there's a limit to how much money they could take for you know they couldn't have like a rich benefactor giving them like a load of money and holding them up somewhere. So there's lots of little production rules which mean they have to go on the run. But I've been in the hunted production office on one of the celebrity ones and Kay Burley and Johnny Mercer. So that is the epic one.

And Johnny Mercer I think had already been captured and Kay Burley is essentially in a van, you know, trying to outrun the hunters. And in that situation, so they've got cameras on, they know exactly what's happening. They also know they're going to catch her, but Kay Burley won't have it. She's like, well, we could probably outrun the hunters or we could ram them with our lorry. And at that point they had to intervene. They had to say, you have got to speak to her and say, this is now dangerous and you are going They had to say, you have got to speak to her and say, this is now dangerous and you are going to be caught and therefore you slightly have to lay down your weapon. Were you in there while? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very exciting. Oh my God. Because they said what I do. You were there in history. I was there in history. Because that is

a particular episode of that show. But as a producer, genuinely it is fascinating because everyone has pitched that show for ever and ever and ever. And in fact, Wanted was a very early version of it in the early 90s with Oleg Gordievsky was one of the hunters on that. So it's a show that's been pitched an awful lot. On that show, you had to perform a task each day, which gave hunters a clue as to where you might be.

But to actually make that show and to understand, as I say, it's got a logic thing in the middle of it, which is, of course, these people do not have access to all this stuff. But there is a producer that tells them anytime. So if they ring home or something and they're ringing a number, which the authorities would have bugged if you were really on the run, they are able to report that. If they ring a random number, they can't. I mean, there's little things where they might ring someone who is sort of two steps removed and you can fire Facebook, you can find out who they are. There's a little gray area there as to how they catch people. But it is essentially a producer saying, oh, they did this, they did that. Is there something that in the normal course of a hunt

that would have triggered an alarm there? And if there is, the producers are allowed to say to the hunters, this is what we have. And it will come through to them in real time and the hunters will read it in real time. And so when they sort of shout out to everyone, we've seen him on the A4, that has literally just come through to them in the way that it would do if they were genuinely the authorities. So it's a really, really, really neatly produced bit of tellyy really interestingly produced bit of telly and I can absolute mind scramble But as I say that when I was there in that in the Kay Burley thing No one is reconstructing anything there. There is panic there is you know, if I scared get a get a get a you know The adrenaline is real her adrenaline is real

The adrenaline of the hunters is real the terror of the producers because I'm sitting with the producers was real the adrenaline of the hunters is real, the terror of the producers, because I'm sitting with the producers, was real. The contempt of Mercer. Yeah, the contempt of Mercer. And so Matt Bennett, who's the exec producer of The Hunted, he's written all sorts of interesting stuff for us here and the producers' role on that show is fascinating. The producers' role really is to stay out of the way as much as they possibly can and to let the purity of the format sing out. There are interventions like with the Kay Burley thing, but really it's a real art of the producer bit of telly that which is how do we tell this story? How do we make sure that we are being fair

to the contestants? How do we make sure we're being fair to the hunters? How do we make sure this is this is compelling TV? And they do it amazingly. And when they edit it, they edit it quite artfully sometimes. It's always you think the hunters are just around the corner and sometimes they're not, but then sometimes they are. People always say, well, surely they don't have access to automatic number plate recognition. And no, they don't.

But they do have access to someone telling them they would have tripped it here. And that, I think, is an absolutely acceptable bit of chicanery and makes for a fascinating TV show. And if you can get through and not trip anything, you will win that show, is the truth. And if you do trip something, you will not win that show. Marina Rebecca Fiore has a question. I've always wondered how actors' theatre performers called in sick. Does the whole day ground to a halt? Well, I mean, obviously, talking about primary creed, the primary creed of the theatre is the show must go on. And let us introduce you to a little someone called Dr Theatre.

Now all performers, not just actors, they'll say Dr Theatre will see you through. And it is amazing, like actors perform with serious, like nausea, actual vomiting, migraines, advanced syphilis. I mean really, pretty much... Most of them. Most of them. A few of them go on without syphilis. A very few of them will go on without syphilis, but I'll tell you who will take you through it is Dr. Theata. And you get the adrenaline from the performance and what the adrenaline

does, first of all it's a painkiller. It raises your body temperature and increases the heart rate. And so you just get this sort of endorphin loop. I mean, how many times have you said it to me when you go on and you're thinking, Oh my God, I've got to record many House of Games today and I feel terrible. But there's something weird happens. Yeah, it just happens. In the telly, we call it Dr. Showbiz. Yeah. Which I think whenever you talk about Dr. Showbiz, people think you mean cocaine.

Yeah. But you don't. There's that thing. I never missed an episode of Pointless, the 2000 episodes episodes and there were definitely days when I wasn't well. Yeah. But you go on and there's something about the adrenaline of the thing that absolutely sees you through. To stop a show, particularly in the theatre, is a huge... First of all, if you're lucky and you've

got understudies and you should do, but people get really angry. Audiences are very unforgiving if you say so-and-so won't be performing tonight. And if there are small theatres and they, you know, they desperately need, all theatres always need the money, to stop a show and say, you see how angry people get when a singer says, I've had to cancel the show in, you know, Philadelphia tonight because I literally can't speak. And you can see they can't. Fans go absolutely nuts because they've been looking forward to it for months. Most performers will do anything not to do that. Yeah, you look at stand-ups who have to cancel shows and sometimes it's a personal thing,

it has to be a big personal thing or you literally can't speak. And it is the worst nightmare of any performer to do that. And they will do pretty, occasionally you'll see a West End show and someone doesn't appear to be turning up and maybe there's a different story behind that. But by and large, 99% of performers at any given time will do anything to not have to cancel. As you say, in theatre, most West End shows you would have understudies and it's very rare that understudies go on because people will literally do anything. In fact, most of the time you see an understudy is because if you're booked for a six month run or a 12 month run, you will have designated days off.

You will have, you will say in your contract, I've got five days or six days where I'm not doing this show. And the understudy knows they are doing the show and when they're doing the show. But it's quite rare that someone is actually ill and the understudy comes on and does it. Because actors, as you say, performers, musicians, will do pretty much anything to make sure the show goes on. Particularly music artists, managers will find all sorts of injections that you can be given to gain.

Oh, in music, yeah. In music, slap you awake on the tour bus and give you some special, some magic drugs. I mean, Dr. Music is a very different person. Dr. Music is actually sometimes cocaine. Yes, that is actually a person. Or someone with a big syringe and then you can stumble on stage and say, hello Philadelphia and New York or whatever it is. But again, cancelling is such a big and awful deal that nobody ever wants to do it.

And it's such an expression amongst performers that they just, they feel that the adrenaline will carry them through. And on TV and things like that, you'll have insurance, which means that if a presenter is not available that day, and big actors might have this as well on theater things, although the big actors tend to have understudies, but if you cannot make it, then the program is compensated for that.

I've turned up to do a quiz before, someone else's quiz, and one of the hosts couldn't do it, so the whole day had been written off, and they're insured for that you know they've got their days worth of insurance. Did you get your fee? I mean do you know I actually didn't I actually didn't but listen that's a whole different story but certainly if it had been our show if it'd been a show that I was producing everyone would have got their fee. But no we we did not get our fee. But they would have been compensated for it.

They would have been insured for it. So everyone's, you know, you have a medical and you sign a thing and you know, you do self declaration and things. But I've- But the cost of one person being ill on something like a big TV production, where you've got a crew of 200 or something is insane.

It is so unbelievably expensive. So you have to be insured. And in those situations, they desperately try to move the schedule around. But it is so rare, it's vanishingly rare that you have to call off a day's production, vanishingly rare, because people will go through hell or high water to make sure the thing gets on screen. Yeah. Did you see that thing this week, by the way, that 40% of Britons hadn't, didn't read a book last year? Yeah, I honestly, I thought it would be a lot more than that. Yeah, me too.

Because I thought that's good. At least 60% of people are reading books, which is a real deal. But so on our bonus episode this week, we're talking about short books. So if you haven't read a book this year and you fancy a short one, I'm going to talk about my three favorite short books of all time. That's for bonus members. If you want to be a bonus member, restisentertainment.com. You get ad free access, all sorts of things as well. But as we always say, you really, really, really do not have to.

And if you don't, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. This episode was presented by Sky, proud partners of The Rest is Entertainment. Sky has a huge 2025 planned and they're excited to share their unrivaled range of entertainment which has never been easier to discover. And there is no better way to enjoy their selection of new shows and films than by using Sky TV. Sky OS powers the Sky TV experience and it lets you control your Sky TV with your voice so you can find your favourite shows and movies from Sky and the other apps without lifting a finger.

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