The Rest Is Entertainment - Typecasting, Typefaces & Greatest Hits

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

In Race Across The World they font used gets a credit... why? This question was sent in by a big name in TV so we hunted down an answer. Is it beneficial when actors are typecast? What are Marina and Richard's top 3 Britpop bands (that aren't Oasis)? Just a few of the questions answered in this episode of The Rest Is Entertainment with Richard Osman and Marina Hyde. Newsletter: www.therestisentertainment.com Twitter: @‌restisents Instagram: @‌restisentertainment YouTube: @‌therestisentertainment Email: [e-mail] Producer: Neil Fearn + Joey McCarthy Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport 🌏 Get our exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/trie  It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✅ Redeem data in 1GB increments. Save by mixing to lower cost plan and supplementing with rolled data. Downgrades effective following month. Full terms at Sky.com/mobile. Fastest growing 2021 to 2023. Verify at sky.com/mobileclaims. For more information about how you can use Snapchat Family Centre to help your teenagers stay safe online visit https://parents.snapchat.com/en-GB/parental-controls Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit mx.ca slash business platinum. Hello and welcome to this edition of the Restors Entertainment questions and answers episode. I'm Marina Huyge. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hi Marina.

How are you? Yeah, I'm very well. We've got lots of lovely questions from our listeners today. Also, I should say we have our most famous questioner ever. An absolute hero has a question for us, which we're going to do everything we can to answer. Should we just kick straight off? Please do. I have a question from Richard Gosler. Dicky G asks this, who said, I've watched Wild Oats

on Netflix. Oh, I haven't. Which has a quite frankly ridiculous number of producers and exec producers. So my question is, how many of those actual producers and how many are just on a percentage? Richard, both Richards. I have, unbelievably, I have seen this movie. And by the way, about five people have, which is part of the problem here. And we'll come to that. There are 72 producers, executive producers and associate producers listed on Wild Oats's IMDB. By the way, if you haven't seen it, don't. Shirley McClain and Jessica Lang, Demi Moore's got a bit in it, Alan Arkin, they get more money in some form of legacy than they are. By the way, I haven't watched it for a while, and they end up going to Tenerife to sow their wild oats, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I think

that took 40K in the opening box office, which bear in mind, it took about four years to get to screen. This tells you all the stories. You're asking me if some of them are on a percentage. They are on a percentage of the loss. Some people are being paid on those producer credits and some people are paying to be a part of a film that is losing a lot of money. I think the production of it took a long time. You've got actors coming on and off the project, but all of that period costs money. What would have happened here, it's not some big studio film, it needs constant little cash injections all the time. And probably what they did was say, you know, you'll have a credit, you'll be an executive

producer. I mean, when you got that many, you can see that's been quite a problem. I think this, it was supposed to be in Vegas and it ended up in the Canary Islands for tax reasons. Yeah, that tells a story. So that would have been another few writers. You're pretty sure that any WGA writers would be like, okay, I've done an entire movie about Las Vegas and people going to Vegas. I can't really repurpose it immediately for Gran Canaria.

I'm sorry. Probably it would have been negotiated that their name remained on the project. So this is how it builds up. 72 is some kind of a record. I don't want to say that that is the record, but it will be close to the record because you would never get that on any big studio thing because they don't have to have that. As things go wrong, you will find that more and more producers may come on. And what it often means is that they are bringing money and their credit as an executive producer or an associate producer or whatever is purely vanity and

it might be, you know, it will probably be related the rank of it to how much they put in. So ironically, a film about making more money than you think you're going to make made an awful lot less money than people thought it was going to make. Had so many more producers than they thought they were going to include. So yes. Oh, here's a good one for you, Richard. Greatest Hits.

Kevin Hamilton would like to know what makes an artist release a Greatest Hits compilation? There are some notable artists like Iron Maiden who've never done a Greatest Hits or Best Of. I've always imagined the reason for this is some notion of not wanting to sell out. Is there a negative connotation with releasing an album like this? And why do some bands not do it?

Yeah, I mean, almost all bands do do it. And if the bands don't do it, then the record company who owns the rights to the bands do do it and if the bands don't do it then the record company who owns the rights to the songs will do it instead. Bands I think, you know albums were so fetishized weren't they in the 60s 70s and 80s that this idea that a band would be on an odyssey and come into the studio and create like the perfect work of art and this is how they want to be judged. But I'm afraid I'm with Adam Partridge on this when they said what's the best ever Beatles album and And he says the best of the Beatles. Because of

course it is because that's all their best songs. And listen, it's lovely the idea that, you know, people went in and, you know, created some extraordinary thing, but they were all on drugs at the time. And no, come on, it's the singles. That's the stuff that we want to hear. So I love a great hits album. Doesn't it make you slightly feel it's like lifetime achievement though, but you know, but we're still going to do more Well, no, because it's just a way of repackaging the songs you've already got now Of course, okay greatest hits are very much out of favor now because you don't need them because you know the Spotify's of this world

you know you get these you know, you don't need to tell this with greatest hits because It's all there for you in various playlists. But if you're a record company, it's just an easy way just to get a little bit of an extra boost for one of your artists. So if they're slightly flagging or as often happens with bands, and this is when greatest hits usually come out, a band has said, yeah, we'll give you an album in two years time. And three years later, there's still nothing and you know they're on mystique in some you know studio and you've heard the demos of the kind of songs and you know they're

no good so you know you're not getting anything for another three years you know you're not making another penny out of this act and that's the point where a record company go why don't we do our greatest hits certain bands would of course say we'll never do a greatest hits and they go why don't we do a live album and maybe they'll do that but greatest hits are other things that make money Some bands haven't done them Metallica didn't do greatest. It's AC DC So it like with Iron Maiden there's a kind of a heavy metal thing of saying we're not gonna do it Coldplay I've never done it funnily enough fans like Radiohead. You wouldn't think to have a greatest hits

They did have a greatest hits. But again, that was the record company So the record company they were with for their first six albums they left when they you know became this sort of Rock group and the record company said well, we're gonna do the radiohead the singles and radiohead were Furious about it. All you have to do is look at the top hundred albums in the charts at the moment You'll know why people release greatest hits because don't forget by and large This is not costing the record company very much money it costs them distribution money packaging money marketing money stuff like that but the stuff has already been recorded it's already there

and it's the most popular songs by that particular group and in the top 100 at the moment and you'll hear how many heritage acts there are in this we have greatest hits from Elton John Queen Abba Fleetwood Mac Eminem Michael Jackson Oasis Lincoln Park Bob Marley Maroon 5 Elvis Green Day The Beatles Red Hot Chili Peppers 50 cent George Michael David Bowie Pitbull Billy Joel Whitney Houston Foo Fighters Britney Spears The Killers The Rolling Stones blink 182 Phil Collins Celine Dion the Weekend and the Smiths Are all in the charts at the moment. There's albums there that came out 10, 20, 25 years ago that are still making money for record companies. They're still making money for the artists as well. So it's one of those things where it's just, it's sort of a no brainer unless you have

an act who is absolutely strongly against it, which I would say is just for cultural reasons these days. That's an old thing, not wanting your stuff repackaged in that way. There is absolutely no argument about releasing the greatest hits. And also if you want to find an old band, listen to the greatest hits first, right? If you want to say, I tell you, if you wanted to say to somebody, I tell you who you'd love, Billy Joel, playing on the greatest hits, they can do the deep dive into, you know, all the albums and stuff like that. But there's an introduction to a band's back catalog.

The greatest hits is of course the way to go. So it's just one of those things that makes such utter financial, creative commercial sense that people have done it forever. As I say, I think now it's glory time has passed because there's a million different ways to kind of launch different bits of different acts careers And you know Spotify has really taken over all of that, but for a certain generation of bands the greatest hits are just Kind of the perfect marketing tool so interesting Marina John Saunders has a question for you Well, I guess for both of us, but um John is going to Marina. I hope that's okay

I think you know what I think John would be okay with that. If we'd given John the choice of who to answer, I bet he'd go, do you know what, Richard? I like you. Let's have Marina. John asks, why do some actors suffer from typecasting while others do not? Is it even a real thing or just something that agents say to actors to be kinder to them when they're not getting the roles? to actors to be kinder to them when they're not getting the roles. I mean, in some ways, I sort of feel that typecasting is almost when movie acting is working perfectly. This is why the studios, when they were great big factories right back in the day when they owned all the stars, again and again, and they always played versions of their personas.

But even since that's been broken out of, all the big stars play, I think, a version of their persona. So in a way, you're always being typecast. Your agent is doing a good job if there's a specific type that you play and they're getting you those roles. And the audience then turns out because they like seeing that thing. You know, you've got someone like Julia Roberts, where you know there's going to be humor, but there's going to be lots of plot, but there's also going to be vulnerability. She's always going to be a sort of contemporary woman. Yeah, Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks.

You know, there's going to be a fundamental decency, whatever situation he's in, whatever stress he's under is what happens to a man like Tom Hanks in this situation. Yeah, he's getting you back from the moon or he's that pilot who has to land on the Hudson Sully, who's a real life story. He's a real jinx, Tom Hanks, isn't he? Yeah, just don't have him on your aircraft, on your craft. Captain Phillips, my God, don't literally, yeah, listen. I'll tell you what, he'll get you out of it too, so that's the point.

Yeah, that's true. This idea of the persona, I think, is so important because even when, even though you see it, obviously today, you see someone like Jenna Ortega. Obviously she's played that type in Wednesday. She's now playing it in Beetlejuice with Winona Ryder, who's her sort of ancestor in that type of gothic persona. She'll have to deviate it from a bit, Jenna Ortega, or else she really will be just playing these kind of weird little gothic princesses.

All of these people are playing versions of the same character. So I think that typecasting is actually a good thing when it works. Different for character actors, where you feel that you could see them play anything and you kind of want to know. But for leading actors and actresses, you want to see them in these same situations. Then there's a wonderful writer about movies called Janine Basinger. I urge you to seek out her books, but she's, she wrote a really great oral history of Hollywood recently, and she said something about Nicole Kidman, for instance.

She said that Nicole Kidman and Robert Redford both play similar characters in that their characters never reveal all their secrets. And there's just little things like that that you think, yes, there is always something sort of kept back about her and there's something kept back about Robert Redford. You want to go out and see those things. So in some ways, it's working best when you feel typecast. As I say, if Jenna Ortega then plays another Gothic princess after this, then I think we're getting, you're getting too tight into it.

But she will take that energy and she'll do something slightly different. She'll maybe do some sort of, some kind of more updated modern thing, but she will still indisputably be Jenna Ortega. That's such an interesting question. And it's not something I've thought of before. In terms of where it comes from, if you're casting a movie or if you've written a script

and you're casting it, now what are you thinking? You're thinking, okay, is the person the correct age for this character? Is it within the realms of possibility that physically they might resemble this character in some way? But what you're mainly thinking is what is the energy of this actor? Because I know what the energy of the character is. And I know I want it to be a decent, you know, stand up human being, whatever happens. So let's go to Tom Hanks, because that's a decent stand up human being. There are archetypes and that's

how you cast a movie, you put them in and then of course, you know, you can cast against type. So Anthony Hopkins is Hannah Warlector coming off the back of various things where he was in very posh English films, sort of casting against type, but you can't cast against type if you don't have a type. What you'd have been saying nonetheless with Anthony Hopkins is, oh, he's got that precision. He's got that sense of total self-control. So that's what the casting agent is saying. You're using those kind of abstract nouns, but you're saying he's got that x or y or whatever, and you will find that they run like a sort of golden thread through these people's careers,

and it makes you think of them when those roles come up. But also, say with Hanks being likeable, one of the hardest things to do is cast likeability. So if you write a character and you want people to feel warm towards that character, and you want them to bring a certain sort of sense of serenity to a role, then that's quite hard to act. You know for a fact that if Tom Hanks does it, you're going to get it. And so of course you go to Tom Hanks before you go to anyone else. And then you go to a sort of a second rate Tom Hanks. But yeah, to bringing something that the audience already knows does a lot of the writers job for them. And the writer, by the way, has already done that job, but to hammer at home having an actor you

know has already done this and already has that energy is incredibly useful. I guess that's why people get typecast because they do things incredibly well and audiences like them doing it. And it's why a lot of writers might write with someone, a fantasy star, in mind that they feel for the role because they've so successfully communicated that persona to you. You feel so well as you know them in that role that it really helps when you're trying to conceive of the characters to help them to hear to think of someone who you probably will never be able to cast playing them. But this is why I'm always

interested who they get to narrate those big IMAX movies and they'll have Tom Cruise will do the International Space Station. If there's some story about America and how they'll have Tom Cruise will do the International Space Station. If there's some story about America and how you'll want Tom Hanks to do it because he says certain things, just the mere sound of his voice after a while, it's almost Pavlovian. You're already associating those qualities from their screen persona with what they're about to say. There's a sort of flywheel effect to it anyway, which is that those roles start coming to them anyway. Morgan Freeman, the wisdom of the ages.

I mean, he said that that voiceover in Shawshank just gave him an entire career suddenly. Okay, let's go for a break. And after the break, the question from our most famous EverQuestioner. Looking for a path to accelerate your career? Clear direction for next level success? In a place that is innovative and practical? A path to stay current and connected to industry? A place where you can be yourself? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca visit continue.yorku.ca

Welcome back everybody. Now Marina, a person we're both huge fans of, has a question for us. Marina, Richard, Paris. I'm Russell T Davison. I've worked in television for 500 years and I need your help. At the end of celebrity race across the world they've started to credit the typeface. What? Is that a thing? Since when did we credit the typeface? We've got to do that now. Go and have a look. It says graphic typeface inverted commas, by Tup Wanders, CC-BY 4.0. In the credits, scrolling into credits, is that a thing? What's happened? Why has that happened? How has that happened? Help me, you're my only hope. Muscle T. Davis. This truly is a genuine, massive honour. He's given me more delight than almost anyone working in television. What a star. The T stands for trivia. Yeah. Listen, I'm a huge fan of Russell's work and just when you think of the worlds that he creates and these extraordinary characters and the

extraordinary emotions and the broad sweeps of history that he's able to sort of just conjure up in just a line and he's asking us a question about a font. Come on, man. Listen, we're gonna answer it. Cause it most of we say to Russell T. Davis, no, do you know what? Do you know what it's not? This is beneath us, but it isn't

because very, very little is beneath us. Very important that nothing's beneath us. By the way, loving celebrity race across the world if you're not watching it. It's one of those shows that it can really handle a celeb edition and people really open up on it because it's fascinating that thing of people tend to get much more honest when they've just got off a 16 hour bus, you know, and

there's a camera on them and they can just go, do you know what about my husband? He's an idiot, but it's lovely. And there's lots of, and the beautiful relationship between Jeff Brazier and his son, and there's lots of and the beautiful relationship between Jeff Brazier and his son And there's lots of really really lovely things But what there also is is an amazing font sort of like a Wild West type font And I yeah, I spoke to one of the gang behind celebrities across the world and I have an answer I'm gonna tell you now it is not an exciting answer

This is and this is a direct quote, Russell, don't shoot the messenger. It is a rather prosaic term of the license for the font we use all over the show. The font is free, so this is for us to save money because credits are free. So the font is free, but you have to essentially credit it if you want to use it. And it's a great advert for the font because it looks amazing. So hopefully Evil Empire is going to make a bit of money off getting that credit. Do you think Russell T. Davis will be happy with that answer, Marina? I think he will, but I have to say that first of all, other designers like it because they say, what is that?

I want to use that. And I think he makes this font available for free as well, which is what a lot of typeface designers do because it's quite hard in the days of computers now to stop everything. But it's really interesting. In books, they often tell you the typeface and there's a whole sort of little bit on it and it says, this book has been created with this and that. It's called the colophon, that's C-O-L-O-P-H-O-N, the colophon. Colophon?

Yeah, that dates all the way back to classical antiquity when people used to have to write everything out by hand, scribes, and you'd have your own personalized sign-off and it would say something like, finished, thank God my weary hand is done, or whatever it was. And it was a way of getting your name out there. And obviously it's being given a credit, it's a form of credit. But it's part of the furniture of the show. And I do think when you see those things, there's lots of little below the line jobs that lots of people might say, well, who cares who did the hair? Well, a lot of people care who did the hair and it's part of the craft and it's part of all those people below the line that, you know, obviously Russell knows who

make the television show. So I slightly feel that the way they do it in the books, when it becomes quite indivisible from the way you perceive the show and the furniture and where they're telling you where they're getting to, I personally think it deserves its credit. I mean, it's interesting. I think that Russell will be less impressed with me saying it's a rather prosaic term of the license for the font and more impressed by you talking about colophons. I think we, do you know what? I think we really pulled that back from the brink.

Well, I don't, but there are other iconic fonts and there are other ones that we love to hate as well. I've got, I've read a really interesting interview not that long ago, and it's an old interview with someone like the New York Times or the Washington Post or something about the guy who created comics and he'd just been working at Microsoft and he had to sort of come up with some sort of basic version of the font that had been in comic bubbles basically when people were talking or whatever and he thought I can't copy it exactly so he did a version of it and he's seen as it kind of progressed and

you now see sort of people being given their bowel cancer announcement in it and they're this and he's like, what the hell? He truly believes he created a monster and you know, he didn't mean to at all. He was just trying to sort of create a sort of generic jolly font and he just didn't realize how ubiquitous and how inappropriately it would end up being used in multiple examples every day and it sort of became the world's most detested typeface. So I'm very glad that Evil Empire is not the world's most detested typeface, but I'm sorry for the Comic Sounds guy because I don't think he meant to do what he did. Ingrid was once flying to Germany and got talking to the guy next to her who turned

out to be a guy called Eric Spiekermann, who's one of the greatest font designers of all time. And we used one of his unique fonts for our wedding invite in the end, because they got along famously. We went and met up with him in Berlin recently. So that was lovely. He doesn't credit his entire workshop is like just covered in these extraordinary fonts. So listen, I know font people. I got font friends. Yeah, Typefaces. And that guy's name is Vincent Canaire and comic sounds actually teachers use it all the time because apparently it's the most easy font for dyslexic children to read.

So even though people think he created a monster, he did something great in lots of other ways, but you know, it has rather run away from him. Marina, one for you. Sean Flanagan asks, oh, do you know what? I just looked at the question. He is so right about this. Sean asks, why, oh, why, when all episodes are available for a series, do you know what? I just looked at the question. He is so right about this. Sean asks, why oh why, when all episodes are available for a series, do they have a thumbnail of that episode

next to the synopsis? It is especially infuriating when the previous episode is left on a cliffhanger, say a death or disappearance, only for them to be in there for you to see before the start of the next one. Yes, Sean. Sean, I couldn't agree more with you. I'm delighted, I'm't agree more with you.

I'm surprised to tell you I've made a reference to service journalism and I'm delighted to be able to give you some information and then some good news. Okay, we're talking about Netflix here and Netflix's thumbnails are all AI generated. They've got this incredibly sophisticated tool which is called something Aesthetic Visual Analysis. Now, all of the thumbnails you see on Netflix by the way are tailored to you individually. They've got many many different ways of showing you a show. So say it's like a stranger things, the thumbnail for you if they see that you watch a lot of romantic

comedies that have a picture of like Grace and Hopper you know Winona Ryder and David Harbour so it will look like it's that sort of show. If you like comedies, then they'll have all the kids dressed up in their Ghostbusters Halloween costumes. Every single person is getting a tailored version of thumbnails. Now what you're talking about is the episodic thumbnails, which I so agree are driving you absolutely mad. I saw one, for example, on Prime Suspect the other day, we were re-watching Prime Suspect and at the end of one is is this guy gonna get arrested and the thumbnail for the second episode was the guy in court and you're like come on

There is something you can do about this in your settings you can first of all you can turn off autoplay previews so you don't see those things if they're coming up some what have you that you I mean we scream in our house the whole time, don't watch the coming up, don't watch the coming up. Not next time we say in my house, not next time. So you can turn off that, but most crucially, you can use the no spoilers extension, which covers up all episodic thumbnails. So actually, Sean, you never need to see them again. And I didn't know this. And I'm very glad you asked this question because I've now found this out because it drives me absolutely mad. So thank you for asking that. Please expect sort of normal no-service journalism

to resume very shortly. Where do you get that? Where in your settings is that? You can do it in your account settings. And, you know, I recommend everyone does it. By the way, can I also say, please for the love of God, when I start a new show, tell me how many episodes there are. Don't make me Google how many, just say episode one of six. I cannot stand watching the first episode of something not knowing if it's a two-part or a three-part or a six-part. I couldn't agree more. It's much like what we were saying the other week about books and you obviously want to know where you are in the book. Otherwise, it Otherwise, lots of things don't make sense to you. Thank you, Sean. Thank you very much for that. Now, Richard, I don't want you to mess this one up because it's a top three. Oh, fine. We haven't

done the top three for ages. We haven't. I think they pretty much retired the shirt up when I stopped doing it, but okay, fine. You think you can step into the issues. Christopher Green would like to ask you what are your top three Britpop bands that are not Oasis? Well, listen, you don't need that Oasis because they would not be in my top three Brit pop pants so number seven No, I'd I jest number three Should I be controversial? I Probably should shouldn't I? so I was really around right in the middle of

Brit pop because of my brother and I lived in Camden and you know it was all happening at that time and it was such a it was such a great laugh and I knew lots of the people that asked yeah listen this is this is difficult this is a this is a tricky one can I right so forget Oasis because I'm wasn't gonna have them in the top three anyway so from that statement we get rid of except suede because of course they're my number one by a million billion miles no Have you just said you're number one now? No, no, no Marina. You have something, honestly, just occasionally, just listen. I was saying, can we sub out Swade? Okay. Because there's no, because I can't do a top three.

They were of course going to be my number one because they've been the huge part of my, my life. Or we'll assume this is a top four, but yes. And they were, and they were also the best band in Brit pop So it's like it's sort of it's sort of moot. Anyway, so okay top three. Let's do it number three I am gonna say shed seven Love shed seven love shed seven so much Again we talked about greatest hits shed sevens greatest hits. Yes, please

I mean that's a that's that's a record that keeps on giving and they're still going now They're on radio to in the park this weekend. She's seven them the sugar babes It all comes around Yeah, number three. I will say shed seven number two. I'm gonna say elastica Absolutely love Elastica Yeah, and I love everyone in Alaska. They were so cool I mean insanely cool that first album was just like nothing that had come before Apart from the theme tune to are you being served which is very similar to

But listen, that's a it's good to theme tune to are you being served? So number two Elastica. So we're not having suede. So number one, it has to be you know, the answer to the question, who do you prefer? Blur or Oasis is always the same, which is pulp. I mean, this I mean, how could you not? So I'm going to go shed seven, three Elastica to and pulp number one, again, a band that started such a long time before Britpop. That's what people forget about pulp. They were around in 85, a sort of slightly difficult arty studenty band from Sheffield. And Britpop came along at a time when really they should have just been sort of giving up and thinking, oh, this is never going to work for us. And just something about their

incredible songwriting, something about Jarvis's personality and the incredibly tight band and something about the songs just all coalesced and suddenly if we have Britpop to thank for anything, it's that this band who might have just absolutely disappeared became one of the biggest bands in Britain and certainly one of the best bands in Britain. So with Swade Disqualified, my number one Britpop band is Pulp. Well, I very much approve those choices. Would you have a view on that? You haven't thought it through, you're not going to know your colors to the Britpop mast. I would have definitely had Pulp and Elastica in there. I'll come back to you next week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen. Well actually I would have put Swade in there. So there we go, we've covered everything. I also wouldn't have put Oasis in. That's us done I think. I think it is, regrettably, but we will definitely be back on Tuesday. Definitely. Well, listen, you never say definitely, can you? No, of course not. Everything, God willing.

Everything points to the fact that we will. Yes, predictably. We'll see you next Tuesday. The End