The Rest Is Entertainment - What's Next For Jimmy Kimmel?

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

**RECORDED ON MONDAY MORNING, BEFORE NEWS OF JIMMY KIMMEL'S RETURN** How can Jimmy Kimmel survive his MAGA-fuelled suspension from late night TV? Will Taylor Swift star in the reboot of The Bodyguard? And if so, who will play Kevin Costner?! Richard and Marina take a look at the state of American legacy media after Jimmy Kimmel's shocking suspension from ABC, will Kimmel's return to late night last or has Trump burned it all down? Taylor Swift *might* be starring in a reboot of The Bodyguard, can she fill the enormous boots that Whitney Houston left behind? Recommendations: Marina: The Covid Contracts: Follow the Money (ITV) Richard: Brighton & Hove Albion's Mental Health Project (https://x.com/OfficialBHAFC/status/1969311063997894742) Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus content, ad-free listening, early access to Q&A episodes, access to our newsletter archive, discounted book prices with our partners at Coles Books, early ticket access to live events, and access to our chat community. Sign up directly at therestisentertainment.com The Rest Is Entertainment is proudly presented by Sky. Sky is home to award-winning shows such as The White Lotus, Gangs of London and The Last of Us. Requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscription(s). Broadband recommended min speed: 30 mbps. 18+. UK, CI, IoM only. To find out more and for full terms and conditions please visit Sky.com For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com Assistant Producer: Aaliyah Akude Video Editor: Kieron Leslie, Charlie Rodwell, Adam Thornton, Harry Swan Producer: Joey McCarthy Senior Producer: Neil Fearn Head of Content: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit bemo.com slash V-I-Porter to learn more. Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osmond. Now, people watching on YouTube will know this already. People listening might have picked it up, but we're not together. We're apart, Richard, and it's all my fault because they have the coronavirus. Yeah. Is that your fault? Yeah. Well, it's not, no, it's not technically my fault. It has forced us apart.

And I am at home and I can apologise for any interruptions from my many, many, many deliveries. Also, for anyone watching on YouTube, Marina is sitting in front of her famous bookshelves as well. So they are all the way through. They're not looking at you. They're literally looking behind you and seeing the absurd higgledy-piggledy nature of your bookshelf. Oh, my God. Don't say that where Kieran can hear it because he's actually downstairs. And I mean, this is meticulously. organised. I mean, if we panned out, you would see it's going all the way around and it is in a system which some of it's rational and some of it is quite idiosyncratic. I'm going to say, like the world, which brings us on to what we're talking about this week, does it not? It does. We are talking about, inevitably, we are talking about, I've seen some odd words used for this, the preempting, the, the suspension temporary or otherwise of Jimmy Kimmel. the fact that he's been taken off the air in direct response to a sort of something said by a Trump minion. And we're going to talk about that. Also going to talk, on a lighter note, going to talk about Taylor Swift and the possibility that she may be about to star in a bodyguard remake.

That is our pudding. But should we get stuck into our main course? Let's get stuck into this serious main, Richard. Now, we're recording this on Monday morning and honestly the best situation is for ABC to get him back on air as soon as possible. That might even happen before this podcast goes out. That would definitely be best for Disney, best for democracy, although a significant amount of damage has already been done.

So not to sort of overly rehash the story because I know our listeners will be familiar with it, but what happened is that last week in one of his opening monologues, Jimmy Kimmel made comments about the Charlie Kirk murder suspect. He said that Trump supporters had tried to characterize this kid as anything other than one of them. It does make a bit more sense in context what he was saying. My view, and I think the view of pretty much everyone, is that there was enough ambiguity and lack of clarity in a very sense of situation that the monologue should have been re-recorded.

They're all pre-recorded the monologues at the top of these shows. A lot of people will have seen that, and I'm quite surprised it wasn't. However, worse has been said many times every week for years and years and years. He's talking about, you know, the murder suspect and a whole movement. I think it began to be clipped pretty quickly. Remember, Trump has said following the cancellation of Stephen Colbert's show, which is still on the air, but it's going to end, Jimmy Kimmel was the one that Trump singled out most frequently saying, you know, he's terrible, he's awful, he should be off air. So he's someone who's he's certainly focused on.

But they're assuming. Which, by the way, to put in context, is like if everyday Kirstama is sending tweets about Michael McIntyre's The Big Show, saying, this is run out of steam. Come on, BBC, we've got to replace this. That's where we are with that. That's what's happening. The leader of the country is commenting on a very mainstream television program. I think it's more sinister than that, though, because say what you like about big show,

it doesn't open up. on that. And that's probably why it does so well on a Saturday night in its particular time slot. It doesn't open up with a monologue about recent political tragedies and hot button issues. When there's such a sort of direct link, it's very difficult. Now, I think there are so many telling details about this. The FCC, which is the Federal Communications Commission, is run by a guy called Brendan Carr, who is a complete sort of Trump minion, basically. They didn't issue a statement. What Brendan Carr did is that he went on a right way. podcast, the Benny Johnson podcast. And he said, he quite literally said, we can do things

the easy way or the hard way, effectively told the companies to pull it. Now, when I say the companies, I'm talking about the affiliates. So we might need a little quick explanation on what the affiliates are. Yeah. So if you have ABC, which is what Kimmel is on, which is essentially owned by Disney, in every territory in America, as we know how America is put together, historically it's come to pass that different commercial companies carry the different networks into their territory so ABC NBC and what have you come via a local affiliate into say Kansas or Kentucky or a part of California and there are three or four very big companies one is called Next Star one is called Sinclair and over the years they built up a whole series of these affiliates in different

areas of the country so they are not ABC but Next Star for example carries probably three 30% of ABC goes through Next Star and Sinclair. So if Next Star, who are not ABC, say, we want Kimmel off the air, or we're not going to show Kimmel in our territory, suddenly you're losing a third of your audience overnight. And that's what happened here. Next Star came out and said, we are no longer going to show Jimmy Kimmel,

and that forces the hand of ABC. Forces the hand of ABC, which is obviously owned by the Disney company. Now, the affiliates have always traditionally, in American broadcasting, always been more conservative in general than where these places are HQed, which tend to be sort of coastal, and it's either New York or L.A. And so you often find that throughout the course of TV history, there have been people saying, oh, we don't like this, we're not going to carry this, we think it's outrageous, we think whatever it is.

So there is a sort of precedent to that. And all of them now, most of them now, have deals that all of the companies that we're talking about have deals that they want to get across the line. Well, next star, for example, are in talks to buy the third biggest company who essentially have affiliate. So they're about to buy this third biggest company and they need to have that signed off, not by the FCC funding off, but by the Department of Justice. So they need it signed off by the government. That's one of the big things. And even Disney, they have a big ESPN deal.

They're trying to get over the line. They're trying to buy into the NFL, actually trying to literally buy into the NFL and they will need FCC approval. And so all of these companies in the next three to six months have an awful lot of money on the line, which is going to be dependent on government approval. So that's the kind of, that's the environment in which all these decisions are being made. And Bob Iger, who runs Disney and Dana Walden, who runs the TV side of Disney and is maybe in pole position to take over after Iger. There's a sort of succession battle between about four of them. And she's widely thought probably to be in the lead of that. Jimmy Kimmel is a huge thing for ABC

He not only does he do Jimmy Kimmel live He does the Oscars He does celebrity millionaire He does lots of specials for them He always presents the upfront When they present their new slates to the advertisers He's a sort of mega good servant to the company And they all like him

This funny enough is why I mentioned Michael McIntyre Because that is sort of who he is in that ecosystem You know every single ABC and Disney program Their stars come through the Jimmy Kimmel show Jimmy Kimmel has always gone above and beyond to be a cheerleader for the company and to be incredibly useful to that company. So he is a big, big, big part of that ABC ecosystem. And that's, you know, he's not some maverick on a tiny channel. He is Michael McIntyre over there. He's a huge, big mainstream presence right at the heart of America and right at the heart of ABC.

What happened was that Dana Walden and Bob Iger decided, he obviously refused to apologize and said, no, I want to do another monologue. I'll contextualise further what I was saying. And they thought that would make matters worse. And so before he could do that, they have pulled him off the air. They're continuing to pay everyone. I personally now believe they have to get it back on the air. And we'll come to that in a minute. They have to find a way back. But it is very, very difficult to find a way back because Sinclair was saying, we're going to air a Charlie Kirk special. So Sinclair, by the way, are the other, the next star and Sinclair. So they're, they're, They're the people who run the affiliates.

One of the two, yeah. And they said, oh, we want to wear a Charlie Kirk special in the Jimmy Kimmel slot. In the end, I think they've been talked out of that and the aired like everybody keeps airing these old editions of family feud in this slot. But now they're still saying the only way he could go back on air is if he personally gives money, Jimmy Kimmel personally gives money to Turning Point USA, a really extreme sort of ask. And of course, it's all a bargaining position and maybe they'll find. They sort of have to find a way. back now. This is just a theory and this is my speculation.

I think loads of people in Hollywood voted for Trump in 2016 and I certainly think they did in 2024. And I'll tell you why, and it's because all of them are in various forms of crisis and they knew that various forms of consolidation were needed and they voted

on the M&A basis, on the fact that they need to be mergers and acquisitions to kind of keep Hollywood, to kind of save the ecosystem. So the high ups in Hollywood, the executives and people like that were voting out of self-interest. Well, here we are. It does make you think that it is all about money. What can happen?

Okay, there are different forms of pressure. There's the audience pressure. Subscriptions. People are canceling their Disney, the Hulu subscriptions. We're not going to know to what extent they have been cancelled because, actually genuinely coincidentally, in their very last earnings call, Disney said they were no longer going to report on subscriber numbers in earnings. calls so when it gets to keep it's genuinely handy yeah it's how handy richard how very handy so they said it's

less meaningful to evaluating the performance of our businesses what would really affect disney's earning calls though is is is not so much the subs it's more if people start canceling their cruises and visits to Disneyland and Disney world and you know that that's where the money is and that's I think the thing if that starts becoming attacked then Disney are in a very difficult position and and would have to fight back that they do have to talk about in earnings calls clearly everybody is talking about it and thinks it's bad. Not that many have put their heads up above the parapet. Damon Lindelof, who did Lost for ABC, said, oh, I won't make a show with them while they do something like this. Probably the most significant that I've seen in some ways because it's such a

detailed thing to say is Michael Eisner coming out. Michael Eisner, who is of course the legendary kind of 90s, 2000s Disney executive who Bob Iger replaced. I mean, sort of kind of came out of nowhere to say, where has all the leadership gone? You know, talking about the aggressive yet hollow threatening of the Disney company, yet an example of another, of out of control intimidation. Jimmy Kimmel is very talented and very funny. That's quite significant that side of, he's a significant voice in it all. Can I give an angle I haven't quite seen written recently, but a lot of this relies, and as you say, an awful lot of this is to do with legacy media companies who are consolidating with other legacy media companies because being a legacy

media company is very difficult these days. And the generation of Jimmy Kimmel's and Jimmy Fallons and Stephen Colbert's grew up in that environment, legacy media, as my generation grew up over here, legacy media. If you're Jimmy Kimmel now and it's like, oh, ABC, I've got to try and get him back. We've got to try and get him back on late night and do this or the other. If I'm him, I'm finally going to take a look in the mirror and go, why have I stuck around here for so long? Why have I stuck around on legacy media where I am constrained an awful lot in what I can do? Why have I done that for such a long time? We have so many years where the right worked out that they weren't really on legacy media as much as they would like to be, the big networks. And so they were forced

online. And actually, that's how they got a jump on the progressives in American politics and in UK politics in that they developed this online ecosystem where they could say anything they wanted, do anything they wanted without constraint, without off-com, without FCC in the States, all of that, whereas the progressive side of things still had that legacy media. So Colbert and John Oliver and Kim and Fanon were still absolutely able to have these big mouthpiece late-night TV shows for years and years and years. Now we know that the ratings for those are going down and this, that or the other. The ecosystem of online and of YouTube and podcast and things like that is so enormous now that Jimmy Fallon could immediately make what he's making from ABC outside of that

system. He can make exactly what he's making in terms of his money. He would have far fewer constraints on him. He would be his own brand rather than an ABC company man, which is what he absolutely is. In some ways, it's going to force this generation of progressive talent to go where the right went 10 years ago, which is online and untrammeled, the intimacy of being, you know, directly in people's homes and through people's headphones. So it might be one of those things where the beast now becomes unleashed. If you've got Colbert and John Oliver and Jimmy Kimmel unable to work on mainstream television, then they'll just go to the other ecosystem and talk directly to people, which actually is where culture is now. And it's certainly where political

culture is. I mean, look at Conan O'Brien. He left legacy media and his podcast is now getting a hundred million downloads a year. His profile hasn't dropped in any way whatsoever. He hasn't become less famous. He hasn't become less rich. But what he has become is someone who's got more freedom to do the things that he wants, who can wake up in the morning and be a little bit happier. You know, Trump is also saying cancel Jimmy Fallon, cancel Seth Myers. They've gotten no ratings and they're hopeless. You think, well, I mean, we can find if people are commercially viable. We can find if people are funny because they just go out there by themselves and find an audience. And I suspect those are people that could. So it might be one of

those things that enables a free-for-all and enables this whole new media culture to get started. I think in the end is very bad news for legacy media. And they're being complicit, I think, in their own downfall. And not for the first time, as we've discussed before. But perhaps now's the time. And perhaps we see that this group of people can be much more effective and much more useful and get their message across and their personality across far more by being themselves than by being themselves within that old legacy media system. Okay, I really think that is a very good point and I think that might occur and I definitely think that could happen.

Having said that, I do think that late night has had a problem. Late night has become something that is entirely perceived to be for one side in the whole of American politics. There is no suggestion that people who don't agree with the point of view with the liberal point of view, with the sort of anti-Trump view, point of view, even watch those shows anymore. You know, I've said this before, but if you look back to those golden days and the big late-night wars, really, and there was, you know, Jay Leno, Letterman, the whole of America watched those shows, as in people on both sides of the divide watched the shows. They weren't

perceived to be so completely. And of course you had jokes about the president. You have jokes of, and I, to some extent, I sympathize with these guys because people are saying, oh, all you do is, you know, joke about the president. It's like, yeah, because he's the president. president. When I used to sort of write about the Tories, where the Tories are in power, people would say, you don't write very much about Labor. It's like, yeah, because they're not doing anything. I mean, you know, sometimes I will write about them, but you've really got to mostly write about the people who are in power. I don't really write anything about the Tories now because they're not doing anything. Exactly. It's nothing to do. It's like, have I got

news for you. It would always be, oh, another, you're bashing Boris again or bashing the government. You think, yeah, they've been in power for 14 years. That's sort of, he's the prime minister. I'm so sorry. Honestly, give us another prime minister and we'll have a, you know, we'll have a go at them. We'll have fun with that. But that's what you do. If those are the people in power, that's the job. You do jokes about them. And so there is a little bit of that, but I do think, Richard,

that there is a perceived problem, which is that these shows are quite obviously designed for one side so completely. And maybe that's because American culture has fractured so completely and it's so siloed and it's sort of so polarised that that's all they can be. But there has been a perceived problem. So the idea of slightly saying like, oh, wow, you could go to YouTube and find your voice. You've had your voice. They've all had their voice.

They've had the run of network television. But, but, but, because the rights have been unconstrained because they've been in this environment, which has not been controlled, the Overton window of what is acceptable and what is mainstream has shifted because of the enormous amount of commentary from the right that we've had in the last 10 years.

In arenas where at the beginning, people were thinking, this doesn't matter quite so much, this is quite niche, but you look back on the last, last 10 years ago, no, that's where everything was happening. That's where our culture was. We still thought our culture was these, you know, late night television programs that made people feel safe and comfortable, but it wasn't. It was elsewhere. And so the window has shifted entirely. So the politics of those late night shows have not shifted at all, but they've been seen to be increasingly progressive and increasingly left wing, which is the situation we find

ourselves in. I agree with your basic point, which is they do come from a particular, a particular particular political standpoint, but to that political standpoint has been seen as far more extreme over the years without actually moving anywhere. I would say that the political pressure is building and it's coming from quite interesting places. Did you see Ted Cruz saying, oh, this is right out of Goodfellas. I mean, Jimmy Kimmel once called Ted Cruz a moist gelatinous tubeworm whose elastic band pants are filled with an inky discharge every time he speaks. So maybe that happened when Ted Cruz spoke out in his defense. But he is actually quite significant in this because he's chair of the Senate committee that has oversight over the FCC. And this is a huge test of the

right and free speech and the First Amendment, which is... Yeah, I'm getting very tired of the woke right, Richard. I'm getting very, very tired of the woke right and their cancel culture. But it absolutely is the wot right. There's no point pointing out this hypocrisy because they know it is, they do it. It's not, that's that's the, that's the playbook and it always has been. There's no point ever crying hypocrisy. But there are some people on the right who do actually very strongly and fervently believe in free speech rather than just as something to say to own the lips. They actually do believe in it. And they have been energized by this. I think I think there's probably a feeling abroad in

Hollywood that if you don't stand up now, when do you stand up? Because this is such a clear example of political interference. Colbert, you can maybe sort of think, oh, look, it was failing anyway. And I get it was time. And I mean, I don't think it's quite right. But I can see what that has happened. This, we can all see what's happened. And everyone on the right and left absolutely understands what's happened. But also wake up. It's appeasement.

It doesn't work. You've seen what happens with this guy. It never works. You've seen what happens with Trump. You know, no sooner has this happened than he's saying, well, maybe other people's license should be taken away. Also, I don't like the view. It's like, wow, you've come for big show.

Now you're going to do loose women. You know, I mean, it's obviously ridiculous. it's so pathetic anybody who thinks that he won't keep going anybody he is like us he is of a generation where he still thinks that these big networks are important and he still thinks that the view and late night TV that's that's what he grew up with that's what he understands so that's what he goes for and attacks the second you're outside of that ecosystem his power is gone his power completely goes all he can do is control you if you're on one of these big legacy media companies that's that's the only leverage I feel like he controls quite a

a few of the podcasters too. You know, he can't take them off air. There's no button that can be pressed that takes him off air. When this story first broke, and for the first couple of days, I thought, well, I can't see the way back, but they're going to now have, they are going to have to find a way to put him back on air. I totally agree with you that he may say, you know what? I don't even want to.

It's hard to set yourself up immediately, and it will take a while in a different format and he might decide to go to YouTube or something like that, but he, it's hard to do that immediately. You don't want to look like you've been run out of town by Donald Trump. Well, I think you could say if you immediately launch with something massive and there'll be plenty of money out there for Kimmel and Colbert and all of those writers, you know, there'll be money out there to create something in this new ecosystem that we live in and there'll be plenty of venture capitalist money out there. You know, there's cash out there and there are there are audiences out there. If he was a young comedian now, Jimmy Kimmel,

and someone said to him, would you like to host Jimmy Kimmel, a late-night TV show, he would say, no, I would not like to do that. I can build my own brand. I can build my own thing. That's what he would be doing. Maybe this is the end of the old ways and the start of new ways for that side of the political argument, which, as you say, has had access to legacy media in a way that the other side has not.

On the political side, the other side has definitely had access to traditional legacy media, news and what have you. But on the entertainment side, less so. And I think maybe now everything becomes, everything becomes the same. Everything's up for grabs. And nobody wants to be constrained. No one wants to sit in that ecosystem anymore. There's no, there's no fun there.

And people like Jimmy Kim will want to have fun. What Trump is doing just so increasingly, I've always felt that Putin did everything before him. And this reminds me so much of that. Did you ever read that great book by Peter Pomerantsef? Nothing is true and everything is possible. It's absolutely brilliant. really like it because Peter Pomerantus was young. His parents were sort of Russian dissidents,

but he went back to Moscow and he worked as a reality TV producer in the 2000s. And it's so fascinating and, you know, how Russian media just became completely subsumed and how the TV stations that disagreed were silenced. You know, it's very, you know, he always says, there's a good line in it where he says, regime can feel like an oligarchy in the morning, democracy in the afternoon, monarchy for dinner and a totalitarian state by bedtime. There is that sense of complete kind of discombobulation at the moment with what Trump is trying to do. And I would, you know, it's impossible now not to say that he is moving towards trying to silence anything that disagrees. Now, talking of creative freedom, shall we go to some adverts? Yes,

please, Richard. And afterwards, we can talk about Taylor Swift and the bodyguard. Your pudding's coming, everyone. This episode is brought to you by Sky, where you can watch unmissable shows, including the final farewell of the award-winning Sky original comedy, Brassick. Seven series later, the gang from Hawley, are bowing out, still chasing schemes with full conviction. Brassick charges through its biggest challenge yet,

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Watch the final farewell of Brassick from the 25th of September on Sky, with new episodes weekly requires Relevant Sky TV subscription. Welcome back, everybody. Now, Taylor Swift has unleashed, I mean, it must be a Monday of Taylor Swift has unleashed another surprise upon the world. We know her new albums coming out, Life of a Showgirl. And she announced this weekend that the official release party of a showgirl is happening, which is a cinematic experience.

It's a movie experience that she is once again selling direct to movie theatres. Do you remember just as she did with the ERA's tour? Remember, that's the highest grossing concert film all time. It made like 260, 270 million dollars or something. It's almost like legacy media doesn't work anymore. It's almost as if. People can take their own careers into their own hands. Shockingly, she has bypassed studios such as Disney and is selling this director,

AMC theatres who will manage to distribute it via other places as well. and it's going to be a one weekend play and it's the third to the 5th of October as soon as it was announced in 24 hours it had already sold $15 million of pre-sale tickets and it'll probably make I would thought well over $50 million in that I've seen lower estimates

but I think it will make a huge amount in that opening weekend this is like the Thursday murder club at the upfield picture house all over again yeah I mean didn't want to say it but yes Richard I do think reminds us right It reminds us a lot of it. As for what it is, what we know about it is, is that it's essentially, I mean, I want to say it nicely, an advert for the album.

Sorry, can I just say, I understand all the context, but I just want to reassure people, we are going to start talking about the bodyguard at some point. Oh, yeah. Oh, great. But it's, but it's, we're leading in. We're leading in. Just making sure. But anyway, she's going to have all this behind the seeds footage. She's going to, it's going to have the new video, the fate of Ophelia and interview stuff.

I tell you who, though. of aphelia. The fate of a failure is probably the lead single on this fourth coming album. The fate of a failure. Yeah. Oh, I've got a, I'm going to do a song called The Feet of a Failure. Not such great visuals, but it's, anyhow. Yes, it's set in a Caropodice office.

Therewith. Sorry, please go on. No, no. Because, you know, he's not going to be absolutely ruddy thrilled about this, Richard. Have you heard of The Rock? The Rock. little movie out called the The Smashing Machine.

Oh, the Oscar guy. You know, the Oscar guy. Yeah. It's the opening weekend of the Smashing Machine. Yeah, can you imagine how angry he is about this now? Oh, my goodness.

So, as I said to you, the Roggs' Oscar campaign is going to have many twists and turns. Here's the first one, which even I didn't predict. So I guess they could try and get a Barbenheimer vibe going and call it something like show machine or

smash life, something like that. Once you've seen the Taylor Swift life of a showgirl, why not go and see the rock get beaten up straight off? I don't know if that's going to work. The Venn diagram looks very thin. Yes, now let's land this plane.

Is this the only cinematic outing for Taylor Swift in coming times? Because last week we talked about Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi who the Warner's executives who everyone thought should be fired and in fact have suddenly done very well. And as we said, they'd taken risks on quite a few originals. They are also sort of mining the IP and doing various remakes.

So you've got a new Matrix remake coming, practical magic, gremlins, goonies. All of these things are going to be rebooted. And one of the things that they've said they're going to reboot is the bodyguard. The 1992, maybe not critical darling, but certainly mega-grossing movie, starring Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner. Now, who has been announced as the director of this, the reboot of the bodyguard, but a guy called Sam Wrench, who's a British guy, and if you're thinking who's he, well, let me tell you.

Sam Wrench, he was, he can absolutely go in with Chaconadimus implies and MC Hammer. It's great. And if I, if I'm, if I work on Only Connect, I'm, I'm seeing a wall. In the toolbox of celebrity names, yeah, he glitters. But he also is the director of the Taylor Swift Erez tour, which as we've just said was the highest grossing concert movie of all time. He's done other things. He did that nonsense Christmas with Sabrina Carpenter. He's done concert films for BTS, Billy Arlish, various things like that. But surely the most significant aspect of this is that they've announced

that he is going to be the director of the new bodyguard. Now, I wonder, what does that lead us to believe? Huh? Well, I mean, I surely Taylor Swift has to be the Whitney Houston character. I mean, I'm actually shocked Richard because you told me, you have not seen the bodyguard no no never seen it never will see it okay well what about you will see it if taylor's listening it i will personally frog march you down i just don't know why i would why i would have done i get it and i've seen lots and lots and lots of clips from it i mean i feel like it's like one of those movies i feel like i've seen i mean it actually had it was written by laurence casdan bizarrely because it's it isn't very good in lots of different

ways but laurence casin's obviously amazing made to the lost dark empire strikes back and it was a huge thing with Whitney Houston and Kevin Costner though and I think it was maybe the second highest-grossing film of that year but it sort of cemented Whitney Houston as kind of queen of all she surveyed and it's one of those films that as the tide of culture goes out has remained like it's got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and become more and more mountainous over the years just one of those films that people absolutely love and one of those films that people are fetishized well in some ways we've never had bigger female artists have we right so I mean even if Taylor Swift doesn't do it

maybe Sabrina Carpenter would like to do it maybe you know the sort of premise is the person who the bodyguard has to look after who's a sort of former presidential bodyguard you know is a diva is a once once their own independence is moving into acting in the original now listen to me I mean surely

why would Taylor Swift not do it can you imagine what this would be like if Taylor Swift was in an actual fictional movie get the rating of it right it's obviously going to have to be a 12 can you imagine what I think that would do unbelievable theatrical business

maybe this is what you do before you have a baby with Travis Kelsey maybe this is just like I can do literally anything I'm the queen of everything and I can do this and if so can we just cast

some of the rest of the movie please oh by the way the thing that cemented the bodyguard as that incredibly famous film is the song is I will always love you which is Whitney doing Dolly Parton and made a huge amount of money so Taylor understands that if she does

this film not only does it introduce her to the world as an actor but also there are absolutely enormous spin-offs here Yeah but also there were two other singles It's like I have run to you I have nothing They're all in you know so she You can get a lot out of it

I mean Taylor's Swift can certainly get an album out of it So yeah listen let's cast it Bear in mind I have never seen this film So all I know is that Kevin Costner is in it and Whitney Houston is in it. And I've already cast Taylor Swift as Whitney Houston is my casting job here is fairly limited. Well, there's one role that is relevant, I suppose, other than the obvious. There's a treacherous sister. Could it be plate lively?

There is, okay, but who for the Costner role? Is there romance in it as well? Yes. Yeah, that's the whole point. Yeah, he's very, very professional, except he's not that professional because they sleep together. Where's his gun? Well, they're doing that. Probably like on the nightstand, I imagine. Why am I even saying nightstand like I'm American? On the bedside table, Richard. On the bedside table.

Next to his peptobismal. Yeah. Who for the cost of roll? Like I said to you, Richard, I know someone who could do it. Glenn Powell could do it. Your friend could do it. Do you think he would? Yeah, I think he would, but I'm not sure that they would go for him, actually.

I think that she would want someone sort of of a particular type you know because I don't think she you know she wants someone who can sort of deal with her as it were so for me there are three okay I'll give you my view this is a meeting this is a pitch meeting now Michael B Jordan Michael B Jordan could do that role

he would be very very good in that I have to say I think Michael B Jordan is definitely and your other two options are Michael A Jordan and Michael C Jordan all the Michael Jordan's yeah no Austin Butler why not okay not with a quiff

give him a buzz cut and a scar he's 34 he could do this okay he's but i can believe him get him to change his name from austin butler to austin bodyguard but my number one choice come on mescal poor mescal poor mescal could look after you yeah poor mescal could love you too much that he couldn't protect you i suppose he could yeah okay poor mescal i can see that because i read someone tyra banks was saying it should be idris elbert and you think he's like about 30 years older than her yeah and i understand that like like you know, Jen Z have a number of views on that level of age gap, and I can rest absolutely assured that someone much, much older

will not be in the role of the bodyguard. Paul Meskell. Oh, come on. Messel is perfect for it. Well, sort of. Although I'm trying to think of him in Gladiator 2, where he's sort of beefed up. Well, that's what you want. Yeah, but I'm not sure Taylor would like that version of him.

Well, she would if she's a diva who's under threat from a stalker who's trying to kill her. She doesn't want Timothy Shalamee doing it for her, does she, if that's the case. If that's the plot, I'm just saying, Shalamay's not going to protect you in that situation. By the way, I love him. But let's be honest on the screen persona. Mescal could do it for you. I love him, but not as a bodyguard.

No, who's your bodyguard? Timothy Shalamee. Okay. But when you see a bodyguard who is short and slim, you know they're incredibly hard. Have you got a suggestion then? Well, Timothy Shanamee. Who would I, who would I have stated,

I haven't given it an awful lot of thought. Who was your first one? Michael B. Jordan. That seems best to me. Michael B. Jordan be very good. Oh, I know who I'd have. I love David Johnson. Oh, yeah.

He's my new favourite actor. But he might be a bit too quirky. I think he might be too quirky. And I do probably think he could be six inches shorter than her in real life. I mean, you know, she's going to have to have the high heel boots on. So I guess, you know, they can just do what Hollywood's always done and put someone on a box. Is Paul Meskow not tied up in the Beatles movie for the next four years?

Yes, he's one of the four actors that will be unable to play any other roles because they're tied up in four films that bleed into each other and film all around each other. I'm joking, of course. But yeah, it's quite a project. And I think that lots of people do feel that people are less available who they might want to put in their films as a result of it. Do you know what I would do if I was Taylor?

I'm not Taylor for lots of people. of reasons. But I would do an open casting. I would TikTok it. Imagine that. Imagine tick-tocking being Taylor's bodyguards. You need some bodyguards for that, wouldn't you? You need some bodyguards for the open casting. I, yeah, I'm not sure she can do open castings. Also, because she hasn't acted particularly. She probably will want, and Michael B. Jordan, someone there who absolutely is solid as a rock. She can work around. Are you saying that Paul Mescar can't act and Austin Butler can't act? Oh, Austin Butler, do you know what? I don't really.

I mean, I know he did Elvis and I saw him in that motorbike gang movie, but other than that, he hasn't left a big impression on me. But, so Meskow, 100% I think he's great, but the trouble is you led with Michael B. Jordan. Yeah. Who is so perfect.

Yeah, he is perfect. I personally would love to watch it, but I really want this movie to happen. And I don't believe it's beyond the realms. Otherwise, no offense to Sam Wrencho, I think, what he's done with concert films is beyond and it's amazing. It's amazing. So I'd love to see him do a feature. But as I say, you know, you could always put Sabrina Carpenter it.

You could put somebody else in it. But I do think you need to do a, it's great if you use a real-life start. And we live in an era as we've obviously talked about it so often is when women, individual women artists completely dominate the charts and sales and streaming and everything. So there is actually quite a good choice of people who it could be if they want to stick their tone to act. What are the odds that this is going to happen with Taylor Swift? God, I don't know what the actual odds are.

You'd have to tell me that. But I really want it to happen. But it seems likely. People seem to be saying this is actually going to happen. Well, it's not definitively not happening yet, is it? Because they haven't cast anybody else. And it would, for me, make perfect sense. And what a sort of great.

It's a risk, but it's a huge thing that you do. I think it would be unbelievable the box office for it. Remember, it's not an expensive movie. I've got my choice for the bodyguard. I finally found someone better than Michael B. See, it took me a while because it's such a good suggestion. But I think I have a better, just look at the poster now. Taylor Swift, Ross Kemp.

You don't think that's an age gap. Yeah, but Ross Kemp, he can, you know, he's sort of, the years melt away. Well, I think that I'm sure, obviously, if offered the chance to work with Kemp, she might just say, I don't want to even hear these other ones. Forget it. Oh, well, that's fun.

I genuinely, that feels like something that would land in the middle of culture with just a joyful splash and the music from it would be incredible you would hope that maybe she would find an old Dolly Parton B-side to do a Taylor cover version of you know just to pay homage to the original movie that, you know, in a tricky week

that would bring us all such joy. It would. It would be such an event and I, it's not, as I say, it's not not happening yet. Joey, our producer just said in my ear, this is a great suggestion. This might be, I'm not saying it is, it might be better than Ross Kemp.

Adam Richardson, Reacher. It could be great. And in lots of ways, he's got elements of Travis Kelsey, Tim, because he's such a kind of big, all-American guy. I have to, yeah, does it matter?

She's a pop star. He's not a movie star. But, I mean, you don't need anyone if Taylor's opening the movie. Exactly. Whoever you put in that instantly becomes a movie star. You're right.

Okay, Reacher is a great suggestion. Alan Richardson is a great suggestion. suggestion. I take my hat off to it. Jack Reacher, looking after Taylor Swift. Oh, my God, it's too much. Yes, yes, please. Yeah, you're right. That is brilliant. All right. I mean, we've got, you know, we've done we've done a number of pieces of good work there. Lots of that is something that we should

make following calls. If any listens have a better combination, do please send them in. We'll read some of those out next week. Very good. Any recommendations, Richard? I wanted to recommend a really, really simple thing that a sort of friend of mine sent me the other day who was a Brighton fan and Brighton Helvalbian teamed up with the Samaritans. They've done a little two-minute video about mental health. We'll put that link in the episode notes

and also in the Friday email, which you can sign up to at the restorsentertainment.com. And it's so beautifully done. It's so brilliantly done about men going to the football and not talking to each other, which is a narrative we've heard before, but they'd absolutely nail it. It is two, three minutes long.

It's really beautiful. really, really important. So my recommendation this week is you can watch within three minutes, which might be a first. How about you? I would like to do recommend a documentary that I thought I knew the whole story of, but the way it's put together is really quite jaw-dropping. And it's on ITV, and it's called the COVID contracts,

follow the money. If you thought you knew everything about what actually seems to be like one of the most enormous financial scandals in government, ever. It's just so well done and I really thought it's brilliant and an amazing focus on the story that you sort of can't quite believe we've moved on from when you see the scale of it. God, I haven't even heard of it. Remind us what it's called. It's called the COVID contracts follow the money and it's on ITV. Marina, thank you ever so much. Thank you so much. I'm so sorry we're parted. I love the fact that you've recommended something about the COVID contracts

when you've got COVID. You're such a professional. Yeah, I haven't. I haven't. I've actually thought of that. I've thought of that, but I will continue trying not to give you COVID ahead of your book launch on Thursday. In the business, we call that a button. You tie it. You've absolutely sewn a button on the end of this whole thing. Yeah, book launch on Thursday, Impossible Fortune. People would be very welcome to buy it. We have to see if we can outsell Dan Brown in a victory for Britain. Oh, come on everybody. Okay, Richard. We will see all of our listeners for a Q&A on Thursday. And we also have a fun bonus this week on the whole business of script doctoring. What is it? Some amazing sort of historical examples of it. And just to sort of deep dive into that, which is a really interesting part of the business.

That thing of famous writers who, without you knowing, have written some large parts of some fairly extraordinary films that you wouldn't expect them to be writing. It's a hell of an industry. So we'll see everyone on Thursday. See you on Thursday. This episode is brought to you by the TV from Sky, Skyglass. Think of Skyglass as the pit crew Ferrari didn't know it had. Fine-tuning every detail for the perfect lap. It keeps the drama where it belongs on screen, never in your setup,

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