The Rest Is Entertainment - Why Kids Must Watch More TV

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Should new parents let their children watch TV? Richard and Marina's answer may surprise you. Plus: we tell you how much it costs to get Snoop Dogg to feature on your song and Amanda Holden spills the beans on her epic new renovation programme with Alan Carr Join The Rest Is Entertainment Club for ad free listening and access to bonus episodes: www.therestisentertainment.com Sign up to our newsletter: www.therestisentertainment.com Twitter: @‌restisents Instagram: @‌restisentertainment YouTube: @‌therestisentertainment Email: [e-mail] Producers: Neil Fearn + Joey McCarthy Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport 🌏 Get our exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/trie It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✅ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest as Entertainment questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. Hello Marina. How are you, Richard? Yes, very, very well. Are you well? I'm very well, thank you.

Yeah. It's been a long time since I last saw you. It's been an age. Yeah. Too long. Too long. Things change. Shall we go into a series of questions from our wonderful listeners?

Let's break them all and do it. Yeah, let's do it. I'm going to start. This is a question from our wonderful listeners. Let's break them all and do it. Yeah, let's do it. I'm going to start this as a question from Tom Brownlee, Tom Brownlee, the least talented of the Brownlee brothers. He's the Brownlee brother who can't do the triathlon at the Olympics. He's sitting at home with his mum and they're watching Alistair and Johnny and his mum's going no, I love you too, Tom. I do love it. Make us a cup of tea. Will you?

I think his question will be able to compete at international level. Well, let's find out. He's like, who the other Garaga brother, Paul Garaga? Do you remember when Oasis came up? Yeah. Listen Tom you may not be related at all to the Brownlee brothers but what if you are? It's a bit of fun. There's a film, The Third Brownlee Brother. Should we do the question or should I pitch that? First of all I don't think that is a film but I don't want to get sidetracked even further. The third Brownlee brother isn't a film. No. Oh, hi, you're Greenlit. Oh, I've accidentally won an Oscar, Marina. Let's play back last year's question and answer

thing where you said it wasn't a movie. Shall I tell you who I'm voting to the Oscars? Linneca, Peston, McGovern, rest is history guys, not Marina because she didn't believe in me. Tom, here's your question, I'm so sorry. He says, watching the Bourne Ultimatum and there's a scene, oh that won't work, Bourne Ultimatum, will it Marina? Bourne as a film? No, shouldn't have thought so. Well you don't think that's a good idea for a film compared to like what if there were some triathletes brothers who we didn't know about? No it's just...

Yeah no it is quite a good film Richard and that's why when they got to the third one they knew it was really quite good. It did very well as a trilogy but..., but I bet somebody very early on was like no that's all that was a naysayer I'm sure yeah to that story there would have been a sir Tom Tom What have you done watching the Bourne Ultimatum and there's a scene in a crowded Waterloo station? How do they film things like that? Is it expensive to get such locations? Yes now that is actually done in Waterloo station and they couldn't shut it down and You will actually see some people stop and point at the cameras in that

Transport London are very fussy about all types of how all the stations and things like that are used even their logo If you want to use their brand and logo in a movie, there were 35 pages of guidance as to how that has to happen It's like buying a return to York. Yeah pages of guidance as to how that has to happen. Oh my god, it's like buying a return to York. Yeah, that's the only thing that takes longer. In terms of the tube, Aldwych and Charing Cross have full or partial closures, meaning that you can film within those stations and you can have a working tube carriage coming into a station at Bank at the weekends.

Oh can you? And there's all sorts of ghost tube stations as well. Yeah, there are loads of those ones in there, but then the whole of shows made about things like that. One just around the corner from here. Yeah. I'm surprised they did that in The Bourne Ultimatum in a way because Slow Horses, the books, Mick Heron's books opens with a big sort of set piece, supposedly a following a terrorist attack at King's Cross. When they tried to do it, obviously when they, Will, who was it, Will Smith, who adapted the books and James Hawes, the director of the first series.

Not that Will Smith. Not that Will Smith. They thought, okay, well, let's try and do it as the books say, but it was just too difficult. And funny enough, lots of train stations don't really like the thought that terrorism could happen there. So they weren't thrilled about that. And then I remember Will going off on doing a big Heathrow, a really nice, and they did a big sort of scout at terminal two, which was under reconstruction at the time and they were going to do it there. That you couldn't have the crew and access because that will take about three days to

shoot just one of those things, even if you're really efficient. There's a lot going on in that scene. So much is going on. And then lockdown happened because of the pandemic and then they started looking up again and their brilliant locations manager, Ian Polington and the incredible producer, Jane Robertson, Will said they worked out a way to use Stansted and Wembley stadium. So Stansted was the departure gate and the runway and the baggage carousels. Wembley was some of the corridors and escalators.

And then the climax is on the platform at the Stansted express and Stansted wasn't operating at full capacity. So this is one of the only times a pandemic ever helped anything, especially a TV and film production. And they took over a wing of the departure gates and they sort of had the run of the Wembley Stadium because I don't think much was happening there then. But everyone on camera is an actor or an extra, except the director, James Hall, said that police and the airport security teams are the real ones. And so, lots of the people, they were saying, well, this is what you do in that situation. This is how I'd react. So they're reacting in

a really authentic way. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it? Yeah, it's really worth rewatching, which I went and did after. So Wilson, we would never have been able to do that opening under normal circumstances, but it was amazing. It took us three days and it got off because it's such a spectacular opening to a series and it got them off to a really great start. So that was a rare incident of the pandemic helping. The airports were more relaxed about being used for this sort of thing because they said, okay okay but this shows that we have processes and we stop terrorism. But the train station is just recoiled in

lots of ways. A lot of things, if they are somewhere public then they are shot very early in the morning but if you can do it first thing in the morning, which is why lots of things are shot in the summer as well, so you can shoot at 4.30am sometimes, or lots are shot in the city because you know on a Saturday morning because no one's really around. Yeah you can shoot sunrise for sunset and the other way around and also if you look up in the sky and it's got a funny sort of peachy filter or something on it then it's just a totally different time of day and they've made it look that way and they've because things take so long to shoot they have to do that

to kind of homogenize a changing sky To homogenize the changing sky the new prize-winning novel are Richard This is about one of your recommendations last week Amanda and Alan's Italian job Rebecca Sinnott asks Please can you tell me how long it takes to film Amanda and Alan's Italian job? Do they just fly back and forth to the UK doing a couple of days filming or do they stay there for the whole process? Also, how much input do they actually have in the design? That was one of my recommendations I'll say in fact Amanda an Italian Spanish job which is the the third series of it's been to in Italy. I thought that rather than answer this question myself I just get someone involved in

that show and so we have this from Amanda Holden. Well we started the Spanish job in March and we finished it in September and I think we made a total of 28 flights in total so we were absolutely shattered and I broke at least four cents of names. We fly out backwards and forwards so obviously I've got other jobs that I do so does Alan so we'll fly out for three days, come back and do the other work, and then maybe fly out 10 days later so that the plumbers and the people that actually need to do with the electrics and stuff, because obviously we cannot be trusted with that, can get on with that and then we'll come back out. And also there's times when me and Alan can't be there together. So you might see

me relaxing on the beach or going to a spa like, you know, Alan takes the mickey out of me. And then Alan might be bashing down a wall and that's because our schedules weren't able to work together. And yeah, as for input, oh my god, we get all the input in the world for decoration and stuff. I make mood boards, I go on Pinterest, I found the wallpaper for the Up Todays Bathroom, it was my idea, I I go Pinterest. I found the wallpaper for the up to this bar through It was my ideas, but the tiled wallpaper on the wall in the bar. Yeah, our input is Genuine, I'm there and with passionate and we absolutely love it and it's knackering and we moan a lot But as long as we've got a glass of wine in our hand at the end of the day

We're available for DIY. Oh, thank you so much, Amanda. I love that. You can tell on that show that they are putting the work in. You can tell also that the drink in the evening would be an absolute scream. I would very much like to be there for that glass of wine. But 28 flights. Wow, that's a lot. I literally, very few things I like more than hearing how other people put their shows together because shows always seem simple. And when you hear what other people have to do you think of course it's unbelievably complicated and every show has its own unique differences and unique problems.

We so often say you can really tell when a presenter has been parachuted into a format and just done a bit because it's cheaper that way and when someone is like as heavily involved as like we are doing this with the uplighting and we are putting this tile wallpaper on. Yeah exactly that and that show is an example of that. I recommended it last week, I recommend it again, it's the Spanish version at the moment but it's a real joy and thank you so much to Amanda Holden. Thank you Amanda. This is a nice one from David Johnston, I'm having a baby, congratulations David.

Oh congratulations David. As technically geriatric parents, my partner and I, is that like post 32 or something? Yeah, something like that. You're technically geriatric, aren't you? My partner and I are getting all hand-ringy about the role that technology will play in our daughter's life. What are your thoughts on TV as a third parent and what were your favourite shows for yourselves and your kids? I literally love TV almost more than the other parent in my life. When I was growing up, and we tell our children this, we lived in a wasteland, you know what

it was like, there was 20 minutes on after lunch after Pebble Mill, and then you had to wait till the evening programming, there was very, very little, so there was nothing. You can obviously now watch it 24 hours a day, but I would say anything on CBeebies, CBeebies is the most amazing channel, people absolutely, you can't say enough about CBeebies from the bedtime story to everything. With my children, you know, I mean I hate Teletubbies but they loved it so we did that but also that's half an hour where you're not having to be the parent that you will take those four lunatics being the parent at that point for Daffinette. I would have thought Teddy Taboos was after your kids time because my kids are now in

their mid twenties and Teddy Taboos is absolutely the big show. Teddy Taboos and Tweenies were the shows then. I brought my kids up really before streaming and the internet and these 24 hour things just in that sort of interregnum where there was a bit more going on but not like it is today. So sometimes I do think comparing it would have been so much easier if we'd had the internet. It was brilliant. And well, I mean, the internet is more, you know, you're going to have all the advertising and we would schedule like the bath to be around certain times. Abney

and Teal I absolutely love. That's by the people who did in the night garden. I absolutely loved Abney and Teal completely. The night garden liked it a lot. Hey Dougie, brilliant, totally brilliant. Pepperpig is obviously, they become obsessed with Pepperpig for a certain time and you're only watching episodes of Pepperpig. Now My Children watch really horrible sort of, you know, swearing parodies of it all, which I'm not so keen on. And what else? Bluey, obviously brilliant.

And Bluey is the most streamed show in the world. In terms of television, I was always, honestly, I tried to teach them to say the phrase high production values and really quite early because I would say, look at this, someone's made this lovely thing. And you know, I know you just want to watch someone draw some pictures on their face on YouTube and it's all just nonsense, but I really tried to put them in front of good television and for there to be things that you could watch as a family. That's why I sometimes say things that you can continue watching as a family. I mean, better I think that they watch some unsuitable stuff,

but you're all watching it together than they just have a certain point. They just retreat into their rooms and watch their own things, whatever. So I, you know, I mean, I've seen some terribly unsuitable things, I must say, but I love television as a third parent. And I know, I mean, I've seen some terribly unsuitable things I must say, but I love television as a third parent and I know, I mean, what does it mean to you? Yeah, to speak to David's broader point, anyone who's got young kids, but you know, as Adam, it's just really, really, really difficult. You know, anything that can give you half an hour off every now and again, people feel terribly guilty, I think about putting their kids on an iPad or something like that. And you just mustn't. So long as you, as you say,

you're supervising what it is they're watching and there's something interesting that they're watching. But how much should you learn from television? I mean, I learn almost everything I know from television. I mean, even now, you know, I think I probably know more about Rent a Ghost than I know about what I did for my degree. And, you know, I loved television. Television opened up a whole world to me. And I think it still does. I think so long as you have some sort of quality control and when your kids are very young, you can have quality control. They'll literally do what they're told.

By the way, they do know how to work it quicker than you. Real fast. Certainly, if you give them something that they can't swipe, they look at you like you've gone mad. But so I would say, David, there will be times, there'll be long evenings, there'll be nights when the child is up at 2 in the morning or 3 in the morning or 4 in the morning Where it's incredibly useful to have something on in the background There'll be times where you'll have to do something very important in a given time And a child watching Peppa Pig is not going to do them any harm whatsoever we're aware that you could put a kid in front of an iPad for 24 hours a day and they would not get bored in the

same way that a 70 year old can sit in front of a slot machine in Vegas and not get bored all day because it's constant, you know Attention grabbing so maybe don't do that But no guilt, please about the fact that people around the world have made extraordinary things for you to watch and it will hold And they're making them still and they're just incredible. It's such a, the form is constantly moving on with the same values. I find it brilliant. Yeah, anything you can do to support those industries.

I mean, Bluey is something that didn't used to exist. Now it does. It's probably one of the great works of art of the 21st century. And so of course it's okay for your kid to watch that. In fact, it should be compulsory for your kid to watch that. And we all went to school with people whose parents didn't

allow them to have televisions. Or watch ITV. That was a thing in the old days. They did not turn out to have better paying, more interesting jobs than everybody else. Because I can absolutely guarantee you that you're, honestly, I'd rather stick my kid in front of a TV than send him to piano lessons.

You know what I mean? I'd have to say likewise. Sorry. But I love the piano. Please don't write it. But they are not going to become professional pianists, whereas they are still going to watch TV for the rest of their lives. So actually, piano lessons is a bad example because I think they're quite good. French. French I'll take. I love children's television and I loved sitting there watching it, just honestly propping a baby up and watching the I mean, no I don't want to watch the Teletubbies where everything happens twice in the same episode It's I mean it Rosie and Jim. I remember that been around when my kids

Really terror terrifying but yet no no no hand-wringing no hand-wringing you trust yourself, you know You'll know when it's too much But yeah, you are not doing anyone any harm, just to let them watch some, make sure they're watching good stuff. Make sure you're supporting those industries, make sure those things are being made for your grandchildren in 30 years time. Shall we go into a break now, Richard? This episode is brought to you by NordVPN. Now it might be a new year, Richard, but online fraudsters continue with their same old tricks.

I feel you're about to help me avoid some online disasters. I'm always here to help. I live to serve. And with that in mind, I want to tell you about NordVPN's threat protection. Threat protection? It's the first Steven Seagal movie. Threat protection 2. That could be his comeback. He doesn't necessarily need a comeback. But yes, once again, we are claiming copyright here on this podcast. Anyway, many ransomware attacks start with phishing emails or malicious websites.

By encrypting your data, NordVPN can protect against certain types of attacks. Threat protection reduces the risks of accidentally downloading ransomware from malicious links or even from ads. As does threat protection too. I think I speak for everyone when I want to thank you Marina and NordVPN for keeping our data safe online. Yes, I am a huge part of it, but you can keep your family's data safe too as one NordVPN account can be used across 10 devices. To get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go NordVPN.com slash TRIE and our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year

plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee and it only costs the price of a cup of coffee a month. The link is in the episode notes. Welcome back everybody. Marina we have a question from Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankapan, who host Goalhanger and Wander East podcast Legacy, which has a new season all about Mary Antoinette and they ask, Marina, a few weeks ago, you said that you hate biopics of musicians, but what about historical figures? Do you have a top three biopics or biopics on figures in history? Right. First of all, thank you, Arthur and Peter. By the way, Richard, their podcast

legacy is excellent. It spans the whole of Marie Antoinette's life from her Dutch Duchess in Austria, all the way to becoming Queen and one of the most divisive figures in all of French history. So, you know what? I would, I would, I would hope that it would cover her whole life. If you're doing a podcast about Marie Antoinette, I would hope that it would cover her whole life if you're doing a podcast about Maya Antoinette. I don't want to go, you know what, we'll skip this, we're going to skip loads of this. It's just, it's going to, this is going to be one Tuesday. Here we come to the old biopic question. Oh yeah, wait, wait. Or biopic, whichever you wish to say. Everything tries to make art out of quite a messy human

experience and which often doesn't fit into a film. So all of my favourite ones, it won't surprise you, are not quite what you'd call a biopic. So they might not tell the exact historical truth but they tell a deeper truth I think which makes them better movies. You mean they lie? Well, no. You've got to take artistic liberties. Are you telling me that Robbie Williams is not a monkey? Wow. I'm not actually saying that. I'm not actually

saying that. What I'm saying to you, okay, at number three, because I know I'm going to have to do it in the right order. Oh, do you know what? Are you okay? I mean, what? Yeah, okay. Listen, I just think that's probably a good lesson. At number three, Raging Bull, uh, Jake Nommota, um, obviously Martin Scorsese now that right from the very start of that with the titles that are like ballet, by the way, Scorsese wasn't even interested in boxing. It was Robert De Niro who read the book and didn't particularly like the writing style, but loved the character. And Jake Lamotta said to someone who knew him, God, I really liked that. He didn't like it at all when he first saw it.

And she said, you were so much worse. So it told us a deeper psychological truth. Okay. At number two, again, Amadeus. Now again, I love Amadeus. I think it told us a deeper psychological truth. Okay, at number two, again, Amadeus. Now, again, I love Amadeus. I think it's such a clever conceit, but it was based on a play by Peter Schaffer. And what Peter Schaffer said, it is a sort of fantasia on the life of Mozart. And it's that brilliant device of Salieri, the other sort of, you know, the rival composer of the age, and just sort of tracking you know, the rival composer of the age and just sort of tracking this genius who's a, who's boorish and disgusting or whatever and Salieri does everything right, but isn't a genius. And that line, you know, I speak for all the mediocrities

in the world, but again, this is a sort of fantasy. This is not exactly historical truth. So that's my number two. And at number one, and I know you're probably going to have a, again, it is about William Randolph Hearst, but Citizen Kane. Because I absolutely love it. Again, just even thinking about this, I thought I'm going to treat myself. I'm going to watch the first three minutes of that movie. Watch the first three minutes of that movie on YouTube. It's only lightly fictionalized really, but it's so much, it tells, it awesome worlds, obviously.

The first three minutes of that are so beautiful. The sort of deep focus technique, it's absolutely stunning. It's black and white and it's absolutely stunning. The snow globe and later how he tries to tie it all up in a big bow with the rosebud conceit. Again, it's not an exact historical record, but it was so, obviously it drove William Randolph-Hurst completely mad and everyone knew it was really about him And so in a way, I think it counts and that is my number one I can't watch a biopic if it doesn't have a line like Ray Charles is sitting there and There'll be like someone they'll have a chauffeur called Jack and he'll go hit the road Jack and then go hold on a minute

That's what I'm looking for in a biopic. I'm going to go for straight out of Compton, the NWA biopic. But it's sort of his history. There's so many people listening to this podcast. That's a long, long time before their time. I don't know if that counts. Oh, I think it's history. Of course it is. Yeah, of course it's history. Easy was very much the Marianne Twinnett of his day. Makes you think, doesn't it? You always make me think, Richard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. And Dr. Dre, sort of the Louis Coteurs.

Love it. Yeah. Okay. Now- We should do like a legacy type podcast. Oh, yes. Well, in a way, our club thing is bits of entertainment history. Yes, that's true. Because they're all out of time, those episodes. They're not related to things in the week. They're just sort of things from the past that have taken our fancy.

Yeah, in some ways we are great historians, you're right. Yeah, oh god, where's my fellowship of the Royal Society? Yeah, actually, where's mine? Before we get there, you can listen to the new series of Legacy now with Peter Frankopan and Afua Hirsch wherever you get your podcasts, or listen to episodes early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Question for you, Richard, on buying a feature in music. Raphael Brianne says, Dear Thelma and Louise, love it. Oh, I love it.

Which one's which? I think I'm Thelma because you look after me. Which one's Susan Sarandon? Yeah, you're her. Okay, well, Susan Sarandon feels the older one, so I'll be Susan Sarandon. Yes, but she is tries to get Thelma out of the stupid scrape she's got herself into. Oh my god, that's just like us. Oh my god, that's just like us. Yeah, that's so like us. I've heard that record labels of up and coming rappers, or in some cases the rappers themselves,

will sometimes pay huge amounts of money to feature or be featured by higher profile artists. How much does it cost to buy a feature with a major artist, and to what extent can they choose their collaborations for artistic reasons? I mean, it's an interesting question and it's slightly that is slightly not what happens doesn't really happen that way around. It used to happen way back when that you two would go on tour, whoever was supporting them would have bought their way onto the tour. So you can be a small band and buy your way onto a tour of a big act or something like that to give you recognition. But this way around actually, it's more that smaller acts by rappers to be on their songs, if that makes

sense. Half the top 40 is someone featuring someone else. You know, an example would be Estelle when she came out with American Boy Estelle was much loved and, you know, very credible as an artist, hadn't completely broken through to the mainstream. And they managed to get Kanye to do his verses on that and turn it into one of the biggest songs in the world made her an absolutely massive star. So there is a lot to be gained by getting a big rapper onto your song as a featured artist. So that's the way around it really, really works. And rappers will charge an awful lot of money for it. Little baby will charge you $350,000. Nicki Minaj, if you want to have some bars from Nicki Minaj,

there'll be half a million dollars to do that. And again, because it means you might already have a following, but she's got such a huge following, it's worth spending that money. That money is almost like marketing money to get your record on the radio and get your record heard all sorts of places. Snoop Dogg, who does all get your record heard all sorts of places. Snoop Dogg who does all sorts of work with all sorts of people, he will charge you a quarter of a million for 16 bars.

That's quite cool, isn't it? So specific. Yeah. But you have to give him another quarter of a million dollars to be in the video. J. Cole. J. Cole charges $2,000 a word. I like that. That's a very specific way of doing it.

Wow. Yeah. So it's a huge business. Drake will cost you like a million or something like that. That's a very specific way of doing it. Yeah, so it's a huge business Drake will cost you like a million or something like that, but you know, it'll get cheap. It's sort of worth doing it It'll get cheaper. Trust me, but Alright, but they're coming down. So yeah, the question itself is can you pay to be on a big artist track? Almost always no is a question for that Obviously if you share a management label with someone there's all sorts of collaborations that are when no money ever changes hands, it's just people who want to work with each other or have the same management and you know, work

together or who are recording at the same time somewhere and help each other out. There's loads and loads of examples of that. And you know, share the publishing and share the royalties and all that kind of stuff. But yes, there is a very, very healthy market in getting a very well known rapper onto a less well known singer or acts song, and you have to pay them an awful lot of money to do that. So that that's the way around that works. As I say, in the kind of 90s and noughties, it worked that you would buy yourself onto a tour. But in terms of the rap business, it is very much the the big name rappers who are getting paid to do that. big name rappers who are getting paid to do that. Here's a question for you Marina from Alan Middleton. When you identify one of the Middletons, Kate and Pippa, maybe Alan is the third sitting on the sofa. Surely after James.

James Middleton. Is he a brother? Yeah, there was a point where he had a business which was photographing things and sending them into marshmallows that came through your letterbox called Bumpf. Sorry, you were photocrossing? Yeah you could get an image photographed this was his business you could get an image photographed onto some photocross put on some marshmallows that came through your letterbox and they were called bump. Okay.

And that's the sound they made when it hit the floor. I mean I'm a specialist in people's businesses that for whatever reason didn't work out and I'm afraid I don't think bump is trading any longer. If I'm wrong I'm so sorry just send me a few on some marshmallows and I'll eat them and I will. Oh my God, they got squashed. I'll eat it in every sense. So perhaps Alan is the fourth Middleton. I think although if you'd called your other kids Kate, Pippa and James, you probably wouldn't call your fourth child Alan. I could be wrong.

When you see a character on screen using email or social media, why is it a made up version and not the real thing like Gmail or Facebook? Would it not be easy just to pay these firms to use their name? Most people's experience of these things, if you don't have to pay someone some money, it's always good not to have to pay them some money. That is money you don't need to spend. In general, it's expensive to pay people for the use of their names. In general, people do it because, I mean, I was watching that apple cider vinegar thing, which is one of the many, many dramas and documentaries in the scammer vertical, I would call it, about this woman who lied about, which is on Netflix,

and she lied about having brain cancer and became a sort of influencer. And that was all via Instagram, but you can see already the difficulty you're getting into, which is you're saying the story context of all these things can make it actionable. So if you're saying, oh, Instagram is the sort of place where these charlatans can ruin the lives of real cancer patients, which I'm not saying it is.

And the fact that she did do it via Instagram, that's not the point. It just, once it's in the context of those stories, it can make it more legally actionable, increasingly because it's such a big part of our lives. And it's difficult always, this is a bit of a sidebar, to know how to put that in a story because people use social media a lot and it is a big part of our lives, but it's kind of annoying on television. Sometimes you can just do a quick scene of it. Like I remember in I May Destroy You, where there's that sort of Twitter psychosis scene where all of these bubbles are sort

of going off her head and Michaela Cole's walking through the streets, she's in a Halloween costume as I remember it, but it's not clear at all what platform that's happening on. Again, because you're not quite sure that you would have to pay. There's another reason, which is that even the interface that they use can be dating. Those interfaces can sort of change anything Oh Facebook doesn't look like that anymore again. You always have to pay so why would you? And it's just much much easier not to I mean that yes in general They they do it because it can it changes the story changes the contents of everything and it makes it

heightens that sense that like huh Why did the platform even though you might see things happening on a platform every day in real life? Once you see in a drama something bad happening on a platform, it's sort of like, oh, why doesn't the platform take responsibility for that? Now we might all be asking ourselves these kind of questions, but they are for something to be explored somewhere other than a drama. So that's why it's much easier to just create an interview. And people spend a lot of time creating sort of off the peg basic things you can use for the social media in your show.

In general, I feel like it's, writers struggle with this all the time. It's a bit of a cop out having it because you're basically, people are reading something from a different medium on screen and it's a bit- And that's saying, but you sort of can't avoid it sometimes. But you equally, you can't avoid it.

You wanna do it as little as possible. It's a bit like being on the phone. You want to do it as little as possible. And this is why people being on the phone. You want to do it as little as possible. And this is why people don't say hello, goodbye and things on the phone. You don't want to make it so it's rather difficult in the case of an Instagram scam documentary to not have a social media platform.

So you have to. But also in documentaries is that it's fair use as well because it did happen on Instagram. So there's this stuff you're allowed to show. The other- The drama of it, they do know it. Oh, the drama of it, yeah, yeah, no. It's a nameless, you can't quite see the name of the platform. But the other reason of course is in the same way that if someone ever reads out

their phone number on a television program, it's a fake phone number which doesn't exist. The second you had a real Facebook account or anything like that and it had someone's name, it would just, just people would endlessly go into it and so then you've suddenly got a neg check that no one's got exactly that name or anything Like that. Yeah, it is usually easier and cleaner just to do your own version of everything Well, I think that is about us not for this week because we are going to do a bonus episode on shows that were cancelled After one episode that's coming out tomorrow. That's coming out tomorrow From our member tier.

If you want to sign up to that, go to therestisentertainment.com. Other than that, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.