The Rest Is History - 12 Days: Port wine and Darwin sets sail

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

How the English's fondness for Portuguese fortified wine began, and the unlikely story of the voyage which inspired Charles Darwin's natural philosophy. *The Rest Is History Live Tour 2023*: Tom and Dominic are back on tour this autumn! See them live in London, New Zealand, and Australia! Buy your tickets here: restishistorypod.com Twitter:  @TheRestHistory @holland_tom @dcsandbrook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you for listening to The Rest Is History. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, and membership of our much-loved chat community, go to therestishistory.com and join the club. That is therestishistory.com. Hello, welcome to The Rest Is History. It's the 27th of December, and so we continue with our 12 or maybe even 13 days of Christmas. And Dominic, your choice of an anniversary for the 27th of December, I think it's a very seasonally appropriate one, isn't it? Because it's themed around port. It is is themed around port so lots of people like port

for christmas and well hangovers doesn't it no i think that's quite wrong i just smell port and i get a hangover so i think you can drink a lot of port and not get my brother once drank an entire bottle of port while having a bath did he well he presumably didn't drown in his bath no he i think it was a bottle of white port he told me and he said he got out of the bath and he felt great and then dr johnson say the port was the drink for heroes or something something like well we're going to come on to drinkers uh i've got some good facts about port drinkers later on so port very popular in england of course in britain uh not so popular elsewhere not so popular in the states and whatnot although i think it's taking off a little bit but why why

is it so popular in britain england do you know tom is it our old alliance with portugal it kind of is so it comes back to something that happened on the 27th of december 18 18 1703 um which is called the methuen treaty so we're in the war of spanish succession so one of the kind of endless wars that we fought between the sort of mid-17th century and the late 18th century well waterloo with france basically war for you know it's like a colossal world war isn't it i suppose um and portugal has actually been allied with the french believe it or not what so yes i know i thought they were allies this is we i know we have some portuguese listeners and perhaps they can explain themselves it's shocking behavior if they're members of the rest is history club they should declare

themselves on the discord chat and explain their conducts because at the beginning of this war portugal is allied with France. Now. That's ruined my Christmas. England gets most of its wine, obviously, from France. So it's sort of shipped over the channel and stuff. But obviously, because we're at war with the French, we're not getting so much wine and so on. So people are looking for alternative suppliers.

Is that because there's an official state boycott from France? No, I don't think so. Or is it because we're patriotically refusing to drink it? I think it's just more, yeah, I think it's sort of... Hassle. Hassle, patriotism. I don't think you could even enforce, I mean, there's obviously lots of, most of the hate is smuggling. So whether a boycott could even be that strictly enforced.

And Dominic, we have an episode on smuggling coming up. We do, very exciting. So we'll be discovering the answer to that question in the New Year and our smuggling coming up we do very exciting so we'll be discovering the answer to that question in the new year in our smuggling episode but um english travelers have already been to portugal to suss out the wine trade there so in 1678 a liverpool wine merchant sent two representatives to a place called viana del castello which is just north of oporto or porto and um they went to a this would please you tom they went to an abbey yeah called lamego which is in the um the sort of port valleys the great valleys of the kind of duro um and the abbot there gave them what they called a very agreeable sweetish and

extremely smooth wine which they have fortified with grape spirit so so it's a fortified wine so it's port and they say oh this is very nice and they buy the whole lot of the abbey's stocks wow that is enthusiasm isn't it yeah and bring it home so there's already they already know that there's some good stuff out there and because it's fortified it will last longer and survive the sea voyage better so it's also better for taking to the colonies of course, of course. Interestingly. So 1703, the Portuguese don't like being allied to the French. This shows them in a very good light. Yeah, they shouldn't. And they're keen to change sides.

And the guy who is Britain's ambassador to Portugal is a man called Sir John Methuen, who is also who combines this job, interestingly, with being Lord Chancellor of Ireland. Oh, that's an obvious job pairing. Well, a sort of boris johnson cabinet pairing isn't it yeah you're minister for equalities and also minister trade minister yeah exactly it's very much a kind of 21st century kind of appointment but i mean possibly easier to do in the 21st century than the early 18th century yes i should imagine saying i mean the bay of biscay i mean it's a rough sea yeah you're not going to be wanting to be sailing between like as we will find out when we come to my choice on a regular basis in the second half of this podcast you know

why i think you would like this tom do you know where sir john methi when he was from uh wilshire he was from wilshire he was from bradford-on-avon oh was he yeah wonderful but do you know what jonathan swift said about him? Something rude, I imagine. A profligate rogue. Possibly involving poo. A profligate rogue without religion or morals, cunning enough, but without abilities of any kind. Swift would be so good to have around at the moment. He'd be a great guest for this podcast.

That'd be wonderful. He'd be rude about us. He's dead, so he can't come on. So anyway, Sir John negotiates this treaty with the portuguese called the port wine treaty where they basically say they'll switch sides uh british the english will sell wool and cloth to the portuguese tax very medieval very medieval and we will uh buy wine from portugal and we'll put less duty on it than wine that comes from France, a third less duty. So this is tremendously good news for people who like port.

And then the next few years, you get the establishment of so many of these kind of classic English port houses. You see them in Villanova da Gaia on the other side of the river from Porto. So Taylor's, Graham's, Coburn's, Sand Sandymans all these kind of great houses yeah yeah um have you ever been to Porto Tom no I haven't I'd love to go I've actually only been to Portugal once it's number one on my list of places I want to go to Portugal is a very fine country I think stopped off in Lisbon this one is a fantastic which I thought was beautiful. And the whole of Portugal, it's just waiting to go. Yeah. So there's a place in Lisbon called the Port Wine Institute.

And it's basically like a gentleman's club. A little nod back to our gentleman's clubs episode. And you can go in there and they've got like a huge wine list, which is just ports. Well, I imagine as a member of Brookses. It's very good. They welcome you with open arms. It's very good. Yeah, they'll love you, Tom.

Especially if you go in your nice suit that you wore to Brooks's, which I think is a bespoke suit, isn't it? It is, yeah. Yeah, if you go in your bespoke suit, I think they'll be very impressed. I think they've got your books in Portugal, don't they?

Are they translated into Portuguese? Yeah, some of them. I remember going into... That must have made your day. So not long after I'd first met you, we went to Lisbon on holiday and we went into this gorgeous bookshop you know old-fashioned bookshop and my heart apps sank like a stone because they had almost like a whole wall of rubicon or persian fire it's not enough that you succeed your friends will fail it was awful. Ruined the holiday. Anyway, back to the Methuen Treaty.

It's very successful. So by 1717, Portuguese wines account for two-thirds of all the wines imported into England. And do you know how many wines in England were French? Five percent. Four percent, Tom. Four percent. Four percent.

Very poor. How patriotic is that? Very patriotic. Very impressive. So poor became, in the 18th century, it was known as the Englishman's drink. And was this good for Portugal as well? Very good, because they're making loads of money.

Yeah, they're giving lots of people employment and they're very happy. So 18th century, Britain is kind of booming, becoming the economic superpower. Yeah. So yes, I guess it's good. Spending all our money on Port. So social clubs, obviously we've talked a lot about clubs

in recent episodes because, of course, our own club. But the clubs, I don't know, I think this is an innovation that we should introduce in the Rest Is History Club because clubs would tout their membership of what we'll call three-bottle men. So a three-bottle man, unlike my brother, was a man who could drink three bottles of port in one sitting without disgracing himself.

So the playwright Sheridan, he was a three-bottle man. He was a member of Brookses. As was, well, as was Pitt the Younger. So it was Pitt the Younger. Yeah. So they were all in Brookses, necking three bottles of port. Three bottles of port. And how does, do you know how Sherry ties in with this?

Well, Sherry's from Spain. It's not from Portugal. Yeah, it is. Jerez. Jerez, exactly, yeah. But I wondered, was it a kind of similar thing maybe we can investigate that well it's a similarly fortified wine isn't it but it is and there's a kind of similar close link between english traders and yeah the suppliers in in spain maybe they're we could we should definitely do a podcast it's been said to us several times by people on twitter and so on that we should do a podcast on drinks

yeah on wine on tea on yeah okay well let a podcast on drinks. Yeah. On wine, on tea. Yeah. Okay. Because they have fascinating histories. So there you go. As a listener will be able to tell, we probably need to do some research before we actually embark on that. That's true. But I agree.

I mean, that is a fascinating theme. Good. And I mean, as I've said, I basically, I can, a sip of port and I get. Yeah. You're not a three bottle. I'm not. So while you while you were giving this wonderful disposition on port, I was actually checking the Dr. Johnson quote.

But you weren't listening. No, I was. I was multitasking. And the actual quote is Claret is a liquor for boys, port for men. But he who aspires to be a hero must drink brandy. Oh, so you should maybe include one brandy as well. We yes on our future subject okay well that was fascinating dominic and um i mentioned uh the bay of biscay um and how violent the waves can be there um how bad the seasickness that you get sailing in a ship across the bay of biscay and that ties in with um my choice of an anniversary, which is 1831.

And it's Charles Darwin setting off from Plymouth Sound out into the Atlantic, down through the Bay of Biscay on the Beagle. So we'll come to Darwin setting sail on the Beagle after the break. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. And together we host The Rest Is Entertainment. to Darwin setting sail on the Beagle after the break. Want ad-free listening, bonus episodes and early access to live tickets? Head to therestisentertainment.com. That's therestisentertainment.com. Welcome back to The Rest Is History. Tom Holland has set the scene very nicely for the voyage of Charles Darwin on the Beagle. Now, of course, Tom, you know that Charles Darwin was a great Salopian, like me, a son of Shropshire. Yes, I do. So I think Shropshire, I think there are the big four.

There are the big four that people talk about. There's Charles Darwin. There's Robert. There's Clive, Clive of India. There's Carol Decker. There's Carol Decker of Tapao. Yeah. Okay.

And Sam Rook. And there's me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And Sam Brook. And there's me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no offense to, no offense to Clive, fans of T'Pau or you, but I think of those four, I think of those four,

Charles Darwin is probably top, top Serapion. Top Serapion. I mean, Charles Darwin is a massive, massive figure. And he's a massive figure obviously because of um theory of evolution all that kind of stuff origin of species everything and i absolutely think that we should do a podcast um on darwin and perhaps specifically on the

voyage of the beagle because um it darwin went on darwin said by far it was that the Voyage of the Beagle was by far the most important event in his life. Because before he left on the Beagle, he was basically a man who was in training to become a clergyman. So he was from a kind of prosperous background, wasn't entirely sure what to do. So I suppose a bit like today, kind of posh people with good educational backgrounds who don't quite know what to do. I mean, what do they do? They go to the way it's all management consultants or something. Back then, basically, you become a clergyman. So because a clergyman was kind of it was it was a nice job.

You'd have a nice rectory. You'd have time to follow your pursuits and in darwin's case those pursuits basically revolved around first of all natural history so he was a great enthusiast for beetles he loved kind of you know collecting beetles um he uh great botanist i mean he loved it all i thought somebody else who came from shrewsbury who was uh dominic wilfredo he was very interested in beetles, in fossils, in collecting things. Anyway, there you go.

He probably comes second to Darwin. That's a complete sidetrack. Yeah, okay. So, Darwin's very interested in natural history, but he's also very recently become interested in geology. And this is a time

where the study of geology is kind of explosive infancy. People are going out into the wilds of Devon or Wales or Scotland, and they're mapping out the history of rock. And Darwin is obsessed by this. And really, that's what he wants to devote his life to. But the kind of the academic posts, the careers that would enable him to follow a career in natural history or in geology aren't open. So essentially clergy is the only way in.

So he's feeling kind of a bit depressed about that. Ideally, he'd like not to become a clergyman. He'd like to devote his life to studying the called the Beagle as basically a kind of gentleman's companion. Who's the gentleman is a man called Robert Fitzroy, who is the captain of the Beagle. And he is he's very he's of impeccable background. He is he's a stern Tory. And this is a time of great political convulsion because the massive debate about the Reform Act that's going, you know, roiling Parliament all through 1831. He is the nephew of Lord Castlereagh who was the foreign secretary um negotiated with the congress of vienna not popular with byron yeah um and who notoriously committed suicide so slit his throat and fitzroy is nervous

about this because he's worried that you know does is depression something that runs in the family and the reason he's particularly worried about this is that the um the captain of the Beagle who had gone on the previous voyage down to South America which is where the Beagle is planning to go um he'd got to the McGillen States and he'd he'd found it so depressing and boring that he'd shot himself. Oh, God. That's not really a recommendation. So Fitzroy is nervous about this. He doesn't want to be the only gentleman on the boat because as a gentleman, he can't invite people who aren't gentlemen to dine with him.

So that would be miserable. And the plan is that this is going to be a two year voyage to kind of map out out the coastline of south america perhaps even longer perhaps go around the world which in in the in the event is what they do in the event it's a five-year voyage um he is uh so he he wants a companion and that's basically the prime consideration but on top of that because they're going to these um strange lands with strange flora strange fauna strange geology um the ideal is someone who could um tick all those boxes and basically darwin is the most perfect person imaginable he's of the right social standing and he's of um you know he's got the right kind of scientific expertise and is he quite a gregarious person though tom he is quite a

gregarious person but he's a wig right so um so they can have arguments about politics well this is this is a time of heated political debate so that's that's a shadow but that there are all kinds of shadows that hang over um before darwin gets signed up the first problem is that his father doesn't approve his father thinks that this is equivalent of you know going off on a gap year or something um you know don't go off you know don't go off to thailand or something to smoke pot on a beach you know get a decent job get a haircut it's that kind of attitude and it's um it's darwin's uncle who recognizes the opportunity that this you know that this presents and how perfect it is and how absolutely wonderfully it maps onto all Darwin's interests.

And so he basically kind of pushes it and Darwin's dad is one round. The next problem is Darwin goes rushing down to London to meet Fitzroy, who says, oh, I've offered it to a friend of mine. Sorry, but you're next in line. And Darwin is thrown into despair, absolute misery. He'd kind of completely committed himself to going. And then the next day, Fitzroy comes around and says, my friend doesn't want to do it. And this is and this is all this is all in London. It's all against the backdrop of the coronation of William IV. And this kind of great convulsive political debate about should reform go through so it's a time of immense excitement and it's a time where uh disagreements between Whigs and Tories would be at their most electric

so it's you know it's kind of like a Brexit a Brexiteer and a and a Remainer having to go on a ship for five years together Nigel Farage and AC Grayley yes exactly it's a great TV show that but um I I think maybe because because Darwin is so desperate to go, maybe because Fitzroy is so desperate to have, you know, someone go with him who wants to go, they basically, they kind of agree to get on with each other. And it's agreed that Darwin will go. So that's all very exciting.

So Darwin now has to get ready. He has to ready himself. So he hares around England saying goodbye to all his friends, talking to various scholars who can kind of provide him with expertise. So he buys the most up to date microscope. He buys the best shotguns because, of course, a crucial part of natural history is shooting animals, skinning them and then stuffing them. So taxidermy is a vital part of of natural history at this point um he invests in a copy of the principles of geology which is the first volume um by um charles lyell uh which is this kind of groundbreaking text which argues

that uh rather than the earth having been shaped by you know floods and apocalypses as the bible suggests that actually the processes of geological change are incredibly incredibly slow incredibly incredibly profound and this will be very very important for darwin over the course of the five-year voyage because he will be reflecting on just how profound the processes of change can be and obviously he starts applying these principles from the field of geology to that of natural history and that's kind of a crucial part of what will inform his theory of evolution um so he's getting all his stuff together um and uh he he gets taken by um by Fitzroy then to go and look at the Beagle so they go from London they go on a kind of steam packet around Kent along the south coast and they arrive at Devonport and this is where the kind of the next blow to

Darwin's confidence comes because the Beagle turns out to be really tiny so how big how big is the beagle uh it is i've noted it down here let me see it's 90 feet by 24 and there are there are two cap two tiny cabins one of which you know which they will have to share and basically darwin's quite a big man so he's difficult to get cram himself into the hammock so he's kind of thinking oh you know two years three years do i really want to do this and he kind of havers for a couple of days and he thinks oh no damn it of course i do and then he becomes as enthusiastic as ever um and uh the months go by he's been rushing around sourcing all his gear he's got to arrive um uh in uh in plymouth which the ship is going to sail from um and they're due to sail on the 5th of november so uh guy fawkes day um the domino

arrives there on the 24th of october absolutely terrible storms they just kind of blow and blow and blow and the the leaving date has to be cancelled um and they just blow all the way through november and then on the 21st of november one of the sailors so there are there are um 73 people in all are going and one of them gets blown overboard and drowns and darwin has kind of massive panic attack and you know later know, later, all through his life, Darwin will be prone to panic attacks, these kind of strange stomach complaints that grip him all the way through his life. And this is kind of early onset of his panic attacks.

And he's like, oh, should I do it? Should I do it? But again, he thinks, yeah, of course I've got to do it. I've got to do it. Finally, the 10th of December, there's a clear day, and Fitzroy says, okay, we're going to, let's go, let's go, boys.

They all board, sail out into the channel. Terrible, terrible weather. And Darwin discovers that he can't cope with storms. God. And it's projectile vomiting all across his cabin.

If I was Fitzroy, I'd have got rid of him. I mean, it's awful. They've only got two cabins, a 90-foot ship. I mean, the last person you want is like a big man who doesn't fit in the hammock. Yeah, who doesn't fit in the hammock. And also banging on about Brexit.

Yes. Well, he's not banging on about it, because it's the other way around, isn't it? He's the Remainer. Right. He's banging on about the Great Reform Act. Yes. Well, he's not. He's banging on about geology and's the other way around isn't it he's the remainer he's right he's banging on about the great reform act yes well he's not he's banging on about geology and stuff which which fitzroy is interested in anyway so the next day it's the weather's so bad that fitzroy turns around and they go back and darwin has his clothes washed you know the cabin is scrubbed and um they all agree to forget about the seasickness. 21st, another clear day. So Fitzroy says, okay, let's go.

Let's set off. They set off. The weather is calm. Darwin goes to bed. He fits himself, squeezes himself arse first into his hammock. He has a good night's sleep. He wakes up. He reaches for his compass, studies it,

and to his consternation realises that they're sailing back to England. And the reason for this is that a terrible new storm is approaching and sweeping down the channel. So they dock in Plymouth, the storm comes in, and all over they have a miserable Christmas because it looks like they're never going to set sail. And then finally, on the 27th, off they set and they they head out and they they get into the bay of biscay and in the bay of biscay it's terrible terrible weather darwin is just kind

of sick day after day after day but they keep heading southwards and then they cross the equator they reach south america they reach tierra del fuego they reach the Galapagos Islands they cross the Pacific they had five year voyage they come back to England and Darwin comes back loaded down

with all kinds of specimens of butterflies and the skeletons of giant ground sloths that he's picked up in South America and

beautiful feathers and all kinds of things. But above all, he's come back with the thoughts and theories that will come with an idea that will change the world. Very good. Tom, I cannot believe that what this confirms to me is how foolish you are and not reading those Aubrey,

Maturin novels of Patrick O'Brien. Well, I, so you tell that story and it's pure Patrick O'Brien. Well, I... Because you tell that story and it's pure Patrick O'Brien. Well, so the film which I saw, what's it, Master and Commander? Yeah.

The guy, the one played by... Paul Bettany. Russell Crowe, by Paul Bettany, it seemed to me pretty clearly modelled on Darwin. Because they go to the Galapagos Islands, don't they? Yes, they do. And the relationship, I think, I imagine, I mean, because The Voyage of the Beagle is a great book.

You know, he writes it up. Fitzroy writes an account as well. I imagine that that must perhaps be lurking in the background of those novels. I mean, they're set a bit later, but not that long. I mean, it's... Well, it's sort of 30, 40 years between the two events, I suppose, isn't it?

Yeah. And, you know, there's kind of... They get fired at, I think, in the River Plate. The Royal Navy is there, kind of keep an eye on British commercial interests there, and they get shot at. You know, Darwin, I think there's kind of possibility there. I think you should make it one of your New Year's resolutions to have another stab. Well, maybe. I mean, the relationship ultimately between Fitzroy and Darwin

does become quite combustible because actually the first huge row that they have is about slavery. Fitzroy is a defender of slavery. Right. Darwin, of course, who comes from a family of abolitionists, is appalled by that. So there's all kinds of kind of fascinating dynamics fascinating kind of aspects to that we should we should definitely yeah it's a really and and the book to read on it uh which

i got all the information from this um is uh biography of darwin by adrian desmond and james moore which is not just the best biography of darwin it's one of the great you know all-time biographies it's wonderful book um so i think we should definitely look to do that very good all right okay well that's a jolly note on which to end um lots of reading and yeah and i hope that that's the kind of episode that makes you glad that you're not on a a crowd in a tiny cabin in the bay of biscay because of course by the time this goes out we may be in some form of lockdown. Yeah, we may be.

So, you know, no matter how grim it is, you're not on the Beagle with Darwin being sick in your face. Projectile vomiting. Right. We will see you tomorrow for more exciting anniversaries in the 12 days or 13 days of Christmas. Goodbye. Bye-bye.

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