The Rest Is History - 12 Days: The Battle of Wakefield and Emperor Karl I

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

Tom dissects the Battle of Wakefield and the subsequent fall of Richard, Duke of York, while Dominic talks us through the last ‘great’ Habsburg emperor, Karl I of Austria. *The Rest Is History Live Tour 2023*: Tom and Dominic are back on tour this autumn! See them live in London, New Zealand, and Australia! Buy your tickets here: restishistorypod.com Twitter:  @TheRestHistory @holland_tom @dcsandbrook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you for listening to The Rest Is History. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, and membership of our much-loved chat community, go to therestishistory.com and join the club. That is therestishistory.com. Hello, welcome to The Rest Is History. We are going through the 12 or 13 days of Christmas, if you like. And today, of course, is the 30th of December. And Dominic, we have two new anniversaries. I have chosen the Battle of Wakefield. So this is a good one. I like the Battle of Wakefield. Why do you like the Battle of Wakefield So this is a good one

I like the Battle of Wakefield Why do you like the Battle of Wakefield? Do you want to tell people when it is? Yeah, it's a Wars of the Roses battle isn't it? It's the Do you know the date? It's the 30th of December 1460 Very good

What I knew was the 30th of December So it's Richard of York's last hurrah isn't it? Not much of a hurrah Richard of York gave battle in vain Which is the way you remember the colours of the rainbow. Oh, yes. Very good. I like that.

Yeah. So I used to love the Wars of the Roses when I was a child, when I was about 11. Do you not any longer? I do, but I suppose I... You've grown out of it. I wouldn't say I've grown out of it. You've moved on to Jim Callaghan.

The trouble is that now I think of the Wars of the Roses, I struggle to see what it means beyond the kind of dynastic feuding. Just people killing each other. Yeah. See, I think it's pure Game of Thrones, sort of families feuding for the crown, but without any, there's no religious dimension, there's no, I find it hard to see any deeper kind of political significance

other than, you know, cousin A wants to kill to kill Cousin B and get the throne. Well, I mean, there's further complication that that is how Shakespeare frames it. And Shakespeare's plays, Henry VI, part one, part two, part three, a crucial part, you know, I mean, crucially influence that sense of it. And then, of course, Richard III. But it's Shakespeare who creates the idea of the roses, isn't it? They pluck roses in the garden in Henry VI.

No, I think that's... Is that Holland's head? It's one of the chroniclers, I think. Yeah, so it's not contemporary. But Shakespeare's reworking of it is obviously being very influential. And you're right. I mean, it is basically dynastic politics, but it's also a blowback from the defeat of France.

Yeah, yeah. right i mean it is basically dynastic politics but it's also blowback from the defeat of france yeah yeah so it's it's um noblemen who've uh you know been doing well in france who suddenly lost all their territory and have to come back and throw their weight around in england there are lots of men at arms who uh you know seasoned fighters who are looking for basically a job and so it's a kind of you know it's just waiting to explode but it's also there's been a complete breakdown of central authority hasn't it because henry the sixth is too it's too godly all he cares about is praying and thinking about educational establishments he has a complete mental breakdown so 1453 absolute mental breakdown and so the kingdom needs a regent it needs a lord protector yeah and a further complication to this,

and this is certainly something that for Shakespeare is very important, I think possibly less so actually in the 15th century, is the fact that the House of Lancaster, of which Henry is the third king, so the previous ones, Henry V and Henry IV, are usurpers. That probably wouldn't be so much of an issue Tom if you've been sane right I mean no absolutely got on with that absolutely but but um so uh Henry the

fourth had deposed Richard the second uh and seized the throne but there are various other descendants of um Edward the third and there's an awful lot of kings in this episode, I mean, per force, floating around. And one of them is Richard of York. So the family of York, they also can lay claim to a descent from Edward III, just as Henry VI can. And so the question starts to bubble up, well, if Henry's can be king, why can't I? Yeah.

And if Henry's mad, then why shouldn't we have Richard as our king when he's an able administrator and a proven soldier and yeah all these kinds of things yeah so um when Henry VI has his breakdown Richard is uh appointed law protector um but and this is kind of interesting um and I'd I'd be interested to kind of check the exact monthly cycles around this. During Henry's breakdown, Margaret of Anjou has a son. So until that point, Henry hadn't had an heir.

And it's a son. So it looks as though the line of descent for the House of Lancaster is secure. Yeah. Which is bad news for Richard of York, you know, if he wants to become king. So after 18 months, Henry VI recovers his sanity. York is basically cross about this. And there are various other noblemen, chief among them the Neville's. So that's the Earl of Salisbury and his son, the Earl of Warwick, who will become famous as Warwick the Kingmaker,

subject of a Ladybird book, no less. I loved that book. So that's the real measure of his... That to me was the acme of the Ladybird books. It was just pure, nothing but fighting. Loads of people in armour, kind of wrestling in autumn, mud and things.

So, there's a big battle at St Albans. Henry VI is taken prisoner, and York gets himself reappointed as Lord Protector. I like that battle, Tom, because it's an unusual medieval battle because it happens in the city, doesn't it? It does, yes.

They're running through the streets fighting, which you don't normally have in a medieval battle. Very exciting. Up from the river. Make a great HBO series. I think The Wars of the Roses. I think it already has done, hasn't it? Well, with dragons in there.

Yeah. So that's an attempt to draw up a kind of truce. But again, it falls to pieces because obviously Margaret of Anjou, people backing the Lancastrians, the enemies of Richard the York, enemy of Warwick, not happy with that. And 1459, the war breaks out again.

And it catches York and the Neville slightly by surprise they flee to Ludlow you must know well very good castle, Ludlow Castle so they hang out in the castle, they get cornered there there's a battle, they all flee in all directions so York flees to Ireland

the Neville's and Richard York's son Edward big strapping young lad. Yeah. Future Edward IV. He's sort of young Elvis isn't he? And he later will become fat Elvis in Las Vegas. Yeah. They flee to Calais and the Yorkists

are declared traitors. But they're still on the loose. 1460 Edward, the future Edward IV and Warwick land from calais yeah um they attack the uh lycastrians at northampton once again they they capture henry the sixth he's absolutely useless and all he does is kind of wander around getting captured saying prayers and things um and duke of york rushes back goes to london he enters london and he he lays claim to the throne he says i should be

king and this goes down tremendously badly even even with his allies they they think this is a you know you can't just go around opposing kings like this that's strange isn't it that's a reminder of one of your favourite themes, which is the sacronator of kingship. It is. That they don't want to, they really believe in those kind of coronation oaths and all that anointing.

Not all the waters in the rough-rood sea can wash the balm off an anointed king. Is that Shakespeare? It's Rich II saying that, which of course, you know, it actually turns out that they can. But he was quite wrong so that's the kind of but in this case um i i mean i richard is richard is toppled because

he's a nightmare people stay loyal to henry because he's inoffensive yeah he's a nice guy he's completely out of his depth yeah his trees so so they they um so they they kind of draw up a compromise which is that henry will stay king but edward the prince of wales so the son that margaret fongue had had when he'd been mad will be dispossessed and um edward richard york's son there are a lot of edwards and richards and things i hope people are keeping up with the world there'll be a test um he he will he'll become the heir so basically richard york and his sons will will will be the heirs so that's going to be the yorkists and the new line of succession um and margaret

obviously is livid absolutely livid about this um all the lancastrians um and they go on the attack in the north which of course is where York's heartlands are so they kind of zoom in on all his lands around York and the whole point of being a feudal lord is that you protect your lands your bannermen so York goes rushing up

to take on this threat and he takes his son Edmund, the second son, the Earl of Rutland with him. And they get bottled up in a castle called Sandal outside Wakefield. And they're outnumbered. They know that reinforcements are coming.

But for some reason, Richard launches a sally out from York. No one knows why this happens, do they? It's a complete shambles, isn't it? Because it's not... The Battle of Waveville is not really like a pitched battle isn't it's like a sort of punch up in a wood or something he kind of staggers out into a yeah it kind of gets mugged yeah uh and various series as to what might have happened you know did he not realize what was happening he was he told that people were coming uh was it braggadaccio? Was he furious at being taunted by Margaret? Don't know. But anyway, he so he and Edmund are both killed.

The Earl of Rutland and they get decapitated and their heads get put over the gates of York and the head of Richard has a paper crown put on it. Yeah. And he becomes the object of great mockery. And in Shakespeare's play, this is famously a scene of great pathos. And Richard confronts Margaret of Anjou with the famous line, Oh, tiger's heart wrapped in a woman's hide, which is one of Shakespeare's most famous lines among his contemporaries. And people kind of you know they parody it and quote it and over and over again um which is uh a kind of measure of the impact that the play had and his portrayal of this dramatic scene and I think it's I think

it's the idea of you know this famous warrior being humbled at the feet of a French woman but the interesting thing with Shakespeare though is that Shakespeare is quite ambivalent, isn't he? Because ultimately his sympathies are with the Lancastrians, aren't they? Because in Richard III, obviously the York, the final Yorkist is a horrendous villain. And Henry VII, Henry Tudor is going to come along. And obviously Shakespeare wants to celebrate the Tudors for obvious reasons because of the sort of status quo. So Margaret, so women are soft, mild, pitiful, inflexible,

vows, stern, obdurate, flinty, rough, remorseless. And Margaret, historically in Shakespeare, she survives into the reign of Richard III and she's this kind of chorus stroke fury that kind of glides onto the action of the play with her luck operations

moaning. But she's a tremendous character anyway, Shakespeare or no Shakespeare she's one of medieval history's great impressive women isn't she? She's basically lumbered with this dead loss of a husband yeah and she fought and she and well and she does fight fight like a tiger for her son yeah yeah absolutely absolutely well I think that's a so paper crown on head that's a no way to go but it's a good story Richard of York gave battle in vain we shall return after the break uh with another well another slightly useless ruler, actually.

But we shall be heading into the 20th century. But a saintly ruler, right? I mean, literally a saintly ruler. Well, we shall discuss this. OK, so we'll see you back. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. And together we host The Rest Is Entertainment.

It's your weekly fix of entertainment news, reviews, splash of showbiz gossip. And on our Q&A, we pull back the curtain on entertainment and we tell you how it all works. We have just launched our Members Club. If you want ad-free listening, bonus episodes, and early access to live tickets, head to therestisentertainment.com. That's therestisentertainment.com.

Welcome back to The Rest Is History. Tom has given us the Battle of Wakefield and the end of Richard, Duke of York. I am going to give us the coronation of the last Habsburg emperor, Karl I, or Charles I, on the 30th of December 1916 in Buda, Budapest. So we're in the First World War.

And Austria or Austria-Hungary has basically, for as long as anyone can remember, been in the sort of shadow of this extraordinary figure, the Emperor Franz Joseph, who is this... Mutton chops. This mutton chop whiskered, absolute symbol of army discipline, of sobriety of austerity of service he's he's sort of that in some ways he's the sort of 19th century equivalent of edisabeth ii so

everybody kind of he never says anything that's a great comparison i'd never thought of that yeah um he never he's he's just by sheer longevity he has sort of worked his way into the affections of his people. He absolutely incarnates kind of conservatism, service, patriotism, all these kinds of things. But by now he's about 140. And the First World War has broken out in 1914. The Austro-Hungarians have started, of course, by declaring war on Serbia to punish them for the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. It hasn't necessarily developed to their advantage. It has not developed to their advantage at all.

So they've been humiliated in Serbia. They've just, in 1916, been on the receiving end of the Brusilov Offensive by the Russians, this colossal offensive that has killed hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Austro-Hungarians and almost swept the empire away. So they've been generally very, you know, it hasn't gone well. I should say in German, it's Franz Josef. He has had an incredibly unlucky time with his family.

So his wife, Sisi Elizabeth, who's this very romantic sort of Diana figure of the 19th century. Who, Dominic, if you had not been felled by COVID and you'd come to the Corfu Literary Festival, you would have heard all about her. Because we did, I did it with Michael Taylor, who stepped in to your shoes very admirably. We did an event at the house, the extraordinary house on Corfu that was built for her. Oh my word. And I missed out on this. You did miss out. So in the reporting generally of the pandemic,

I think this, my suffering has not been sufficiently, has not been given. Well, a chance now for you to. Yeah. To milk it. Yeah. Well, anyway, she's been,

she was stabbed by an Italian anarchist. So she was murdered. His son, Rudolf, Franz Josef's son, Rudolf, an extraordinary incident at the hunting lodge at Meierling, kills himself in a sort of strange murder-suicide pact with his mistress. So he's dead, his only son. So then the successor is going to be Franz Ferdinand.

He and his wife, sophie are murdered by like a wrong turning gavrilo princip because their car stalls at the wrong moment going after a wrong turning exactly in sarajevo so now the person who is going to succeed franz joseph is a it's a completely useless i mean i hate to say this i know we've got hapsburg's coming on the program um in the new year he's useless we said, in a saintly way, reminiscent of Henry VI. Right, of Henry VI. So here's our parallel.

So he was previously the Archduke Karl, and he is basically the great nephew of Franz Joseph I. So the nephew of Franz Ferdinand. And he is, what is he? He's 29 when he succeeds. He's never really done anything very much. He hasn't even been, because no one expected him to succeed.

He's just a sort of, you know, attendant Habsburg aristocrat. Yeah. So he succeeds to this empire that is in this colossal clash of kind of modern, you know, sort of leviathans. And he doesn't really know what he's doing. So he's crowned in the Matthias church in Buda

in a ritual, Tom, that you will enjoy that goes back to the year 1000. I love that. And the coronation of the first Hungarian king, Stephen I. I think they would call him Istvan I. And he's crowned in this very... He got sent a replica of the Holy Spear.

Well, this is what we're going to discuss because Karl, so in 1916, in this world of kind of tanks, the Battle of the Somme, all this stuff, and he is crowned with a crown that is largely Byzantine. So this extraordinary thing, you can Google it if you haven't seen it, the Holy Crown of Hungary, which is much more than just a crown

because some people say it kind of is Hungary, that it is the symbol, it's the sort of legal personification of Hungary itself. But Dominic, a while back we said we should try and get Otto the Great, friend of the show, into every episode, which we failed to do. But there is an opportunity here because, of course, it's the Hungarians who get defeated by Otto the Great. And then they not only submit to German power, but also to the Christian faith and become devoted servants of the church. And this is why, one of the reasons I think they've been given this crown, because the crown has been given some, there's some disagreement about exactly where they get the crown. But some people think the crown itself is given by the Byzantine Emperor Michael VII.

Now, we will be referring to him in a later podcast in this 12 Days of Christmas. So it's all, it's amazing the intricacy. It all joins together, doesn't it? Yeah. It's a fabric. It's a tapestry. Historical tapestry historical tapestry there were these

fantastic enamels beautiful illustrations on the crown which had been made in Constantinople the crown is given to the Hungarians

it's all written in Greek and stuff so it's still in Budapest today you can still see it I think in Budapest today and now the most famous thing about it

is that the cross on the top is crooked so if you look at it it looks very peculiar because the cross is all like the leaning tower of pisa and it has been i think since the 17th century when it was knocked and they've never tried to mend it so it's become a kind of tradition but people think that there's all kinds of stuff with is there a bit of the thorn what the crown of thorns um from the crucifixion contained in the crown i think

what we can safely say is it's very sacral it's very sacral you're absolutely right so carl who is this sort of slightly chinless nothing of a person without being mean to him um he is crowned in budapest with this he's already been in vienna now because it's of course the dual monarchy of austria-hungary so he's come to the hungarian bit he's crowned there's a big banquet afterwards but they cut cut that short it's much the celebrations are quite muted compared with normal because of course they're in the first world war and austria is really struggling you know the country that started it all is doing very badly but also of course he's got this huge multi-ethnic empire people don't speak the same language the army is split apart it's all falling apart so carl is quite a decent sort of fellow he um is a very devout catholic he takes his responsibilities as

emperor terribly seriously and he has various ideas for how austria can survive the first world war go into the the future so he thinks you, we need to have a federal sort of state in Austria with all states, a bit like Franz Ferdinand had wanted to do before he was killed. He thinks the Croats should be given more of a say, so it should have a sort of South Slav element to it, so it's no longer just a dual monarchy.

But all of this is just kind of fantastical because it's quite obvious that the Austrians are not going to win and the empire's probably not going to survive and so he opens peace feelers he's always out opening peace feelers yeah I think he's basically spends most of his time sending messages via sort of intermediaries to the allies particularly to the Americans uh after 1917 and sort of saying yeah can we do some kind of a deal? But by this point, he's such a junior partner to the, to the, to the, well,

to Hindenburg and Ludendorff, the military kind of dictators of Germany that, you know, Austrians have so little freedom and maneuver. Really. The Germans basically calling the shots on the, on the battlefield. And,

and it's irrelevant what he's doing. Interesting thing about him, Tom, his wife was called. No princess Zita of Bourbon Palmer. Great name. I love what he's doing. Interesting thing about him, Tom, do you know what his wife was called? No. Princess Zita of Bourbon Palmer. Great name.

Crazy name, crazy girl. Well, do you know how many, she's one of how many daughters, how many sisters? 12. 17. 17. 17, look at that, 17. Guess when she died?

1982. 1989. Not bad. I'm not bad I'm in kind of the right ballpark you're in the right ballpark but she was a tremendously long-lived so she and Carl where did she end up well they went to Madeira eventually

as you'll soon discover but they were Carl was ineffective in the he was ineffective in the conference chamber, Tom, but very effective in the bedroom because they had eight children in 10 years. Wow. I mean, that's very Catholic behavior.

Yes, it is. So anyway, poor old Carl. He's utterly swept away in November 1918. No one gives a damn what he thinks about anything. After his father, who had been such a great figurehead, I mean, this is a bit ominous, really, the comparison with our current queen, for poor old Charles.

Charles, at least, has been trained for... So he's swept away in November 1918. The Austro-Hungarian Empire falls apart. All the constituent bits declare independence. And he basically is kind of kicked out and he goes off to switzerland but what a lot of people don't know is that he never properly abdicated so he sort of thinks well i'm kind of still the emperor so i can still try and come back right and in the chaos after the first world war

um so in 1921 he basically decides the future is hungarian i will come back to hungary so on easter saturday 1921 he just suddenly pitches up back in hungary and is he greeted with open arms he's not i'd like to take over now now the fellow who's running hungary is a man called admiral horty who's a who's a former naval commander in the well the clue's in the name well it is in there but a lot of people wouldn't know that austria-hungary had a navy tom out of trieste based out of trieste and all that sort of area well admiral haughty he's technically the regent so he's you would expect yeah he'd be delighted the king says yeah but no it's like richard of york he says this is a terrible idea

it's astonishing parallels. The Allies will invade again, which they will, because Romania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary's neighbours have basically said, if the Habsburgs ever come back, we will attack you. We hate the Habsburgs. We hate you. We will attack you if the Habsburgs come back. I hope Edouard Habsburg isn't listening to this. So poor old Karl,

he's very disappointed. He said he has... There's some strange business. He's come with no coat. So, I think because he was expecting to be installed kind of straight away in the warmth of the Hungarian people's hearts.

So, he catches a dreadful cold. Anyway, he has to go back to Switzerland. But undeterred, Tom. He has another crack. He waits a few months till the autumn and then he flies back in. This time he's a bit more prepared and he has armoured trains.

And the armoured trains kind of shoot along. Where did he get the armoured train from? I think he just arrived at a station. And some people commandeered trains or something. To be honest, I haven't looked into the details of this. It's a great adventure story. Second coup as much as I should have done. But then he's foolish.

Instead of going straight to the capital and killing all his enemies, he's not a violent man. So he proceeds slowly, stopping at every kind of village in Hamlet to receive the acclamation of the peasants yeah the peasants wave and he you know they kiss his hand and give him flowers and stuff uh so that's he's too slow so basically they arrive and the hungarian government again have again neighbors basically say if you install him we will attack you and kill you all so the hungarian government raises troops sees off his small ragtag army and they kick him out and off he goes to madeira where he dies of a broken heart

a year later very sad very sad story very young man but 34 with how many kids eight kids he's had eight kids in 10 years imagine being 34 and having eight children yeah god almighty I can't cope with one well anyway but you you've got I mean you've got plenty of you've got staff haven't you well he's got stuff yeah no I'm not saying you but you haven't you've only had one no exactly so

anyway so that's the end of him but everybody says he's the most tremendous chap and he's on his way to sainthood I believe he's a venerable yeah I looked him up so he's the most tremendous chap. And he's on his way to sainthood, I believe. He's a venerable. Yeah. I looked him up. So he's like Bede.

Well, I'm not going to lie. Bede never launched a coup. If I was Bede, I'd be cross at that. You'd feel devalued. You're like one of these people who... Bede, one of the great scholars of the church. You know, he spent his life as a monk shivering up in Jonathan Wilson land. He never led a country in a world war, though.

No. And this guy, I mean, he's having children left, right and centre, launching coups. Yeah, but uselessly. But uselessly, to be fair. So the question, therefore, comes, Tom, who is better, Richard of York or Karl I of Austria? Well, I think Karl, because he didn't, I mean, he didn't launch a civil war. And because he did actually get his hands on the crown.

I mean, he wore his crown with a crooked crown, not a paper crown. Whereas Richard of York never became king and caused the civil war. So I think he was a bit of a nightmare. Okay. So for once, this is probably the only podcast in which the Emperor Karl of Austria-Hungary

has emerged as a victor. Yeah, I'm glad for him. I'm happy for the lad. So, yeah, 100 years after his failure to secure the crown of Hungary in a coup. He secures the crown of the rest is history, listeners' hearts. The king of hearts.

The king of people's hearts. you know who we're doing tomorrow emperor bakasa the first i love emperors i'm all about emperors on this podcast in the emperor bakasa of the central african empire it's laugh a minute with us he was a naughty boy he was a bad boy he was a very bad boy more on on him tomorrow. We'll see you there. And just to compliment him, we've got the coronavirus. Oh, what a festive celebration. I know. Ho, ho, ho. We'll see you tomorrow.

Bye. Thanks for listening to The Rest Is History. For bonus episodes, early access, ad-free listening, and access to our chat community, please sign up at restishistorypod.com. That's restishistorypod.com.