The Rest Is History - 388. The Fall of the Aztecs: The Festival of Blood (Part 5)

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

“The blood flowed like water…” It is 1520 and word has reached Hernán Cortés in Tenochtitlan that another group of Spaniards led by the ferocious Pánfilo de Narváez, have landed on the coast to hunt him down. Taking drastic action, he decides to leave the city with his wily mistress Malinche to pursue the newcomers, but not before taking the Emperor of the Aztecs, Montezuma, as his hostage.  But can Cortés really overcome a much larger force commanded by such a formidable rival? And can his lieutenant, the dashing, violent and reckless Pedro de Alvarado, keep his cool in the heart of the capital? For one of the most hallowed Aztec festivals is fast approaching. The tension is mounting, and the Spaniards’ swords are thirsty for blood … In today’s episode in this unmissable series, Dominic and Tom lead us deeper into the heart of darkness, as the story of the Fall of the Aztecs takes a shocking and nightmarish turn … *Dominic’s book The Fall of the Aztecs is available now from bookshops across the UK - the perfect Christmas present!* *The Rest Is History Live Tour 2023*: Tom and Dominic are back on tour this autumn! See them live in New Zealand and Australia! Buy your tickets here: restishistorypod.com Twitter:  @TheRestHistory @holland_tom @dcsandbrook Producer: Theo Young-Smith Executive Producers: Jack Davenport + Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you for listening to The Rest Is History. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, and membership of our much-loved chat community, go to therestishistory.com and join the club. That is therestishistory.com. In the temple square, the drummers struck up a pounding rhythm. The dancers joined hands once again. 400 of the bravest and strongest young men in the city. The crowds began to chant and clap. Hundreds and hundreds of men, women and children, their faces shining with religious excitement.

None of them, of course, had brought weapons. Round and round the dancers whirled faster and faster. The drummers hammered louder and louder. The sun beat down hotter and hotter. In their excitement, nobody noticed the Spaniards closing the gates leading out of the temple precinct and taking up their positions around the edge of the square. Round and round went the dancers in wave after wave of joy and passion, louder and louder, hotter and hotter, faster and faster. Alvarado drew his sword. His eyes were burning. For just a fraction of a second, the drummers faltered. Meran! he screamed. Let them die! So began the carnage. Thrilling prose there, Dominic, from a top historian of

the fall of the Aztecs, namely yourself, your latest volume in your Adventures of Time series. And listeners who have made it this far with us will know that we are now embarking on something unprecedented in The Rest is History, which is our first part five in a series. So over the course of this podcast, we did The French Revolution in 50 minutes, and we've been slowly expanding. So then we did two, then we've done four episode series, and now we're embarking on an eight part series. And we've had a week, haven't we, where we did the first part of this incredible story, and now we're into our second week. So Dominic, could you just give us a recap? Yes. For people who may have completely forgotten what's going on.

Of course. I find this hard to believe, of course, but... Where we are. So that scene that you were just describing is in the center of Tenochtitlan, now Mexico City, in 1520. And that scene is to come in today's podcast. But last week, we started with Hernan Cortes, born in around 1485 in Medellin in Spain, how Cortes traveled to seek his fortune in the Caribbean, first on the island of Hispaniola and then on Cuba, how he was given the job of leading a sort of scouting expedition up the coast of what we know as Mexico. But what the Spanish, and particularly Cortes' boss, the governor of Cuba, a guy called Diego Velazquez, what they thought could be a continent, could be a very large island, they didn't know, but they knew

it probably had gold. Cortes went up the coast. He disobeyed his orders. He had been specifically told not to try and conquer that land, but he turned in land in the company of a slave girl that he had acquired called Malinche, who was translating for him, and some people now believe was partly calling the shots in what happened. He went in land, he made a deal with a city-state called Tlaxcala, the sworn enemies of the Mexica, the great power brokers of the Mexican world, the Mesoamerican world, in the city of Tenochtitlan in the center of Lake Texcoco. Cortes arrived in the capital, spent a few months with Montezuma, the emperor.

Then he heard that more Spaniards had arrived on the coast, probably hunting for him because he disobeyed his orders. So as we discussed last time, it's probably at that moment, Tom, that he arrested Montezuma, that Montezuma became the Spaniards' hostage. In the meantime, Cortes divided his forces. He took 80 men himself, and he and Malinche left for the coast, leaving the remaining 120 or so men in the Aztec capital, Tenochtitlan, under the command of his ally, Pedro de Alvarado. And Tom, it seems extraordinary that I've just done that in about 90 seconds. I know. That's mistaken as well.

About kind of four hours. Yes. However, as you rightly said last time, although many aspects of Cortes' character are obscure and we will never know them, it is quite clear that he is a man who continually takes gambles. He's a risk taker, and this is a colossal risk to divide your forces and to head back to the coast. And also to take prisoner, the leader of the greatest empire in America. Yes. When you're surrounded by millions of people who are loyal to him.

Yeah. And of course, I mean, most people who listen to this podcast might not know the details of the story, but they will have a strong suspicion that this gamble is going to work. But Cortes can't know that as he is marching back east. No. So the sense of jeopardy is enormous. Yeah. And the almost lunatic quality of his courage.

Yes. So the interesting thing with Hernan Cortes, as I said, so much of his personality is lost to us. And the most brilliant recent book, which we talked about last time by a historian called Matthew Restle. Matthew Restle, like most modern historians, absolutely despises Cortes. And Cortes' reputation in Mexico, if you see paintings and murals and things, he's shown as an utter villain, a man of the absolutely worst kind. And Matthew Restle sees him as a mediocrity, doesn't he? A total mediocrity.

That's the really fascinating thing is that I've read accounts in which Cortez is the hero, and I've read accounts in which he is a satanic, malign figure, equivalent of Milton Satan. Restle's is the first that I've read in which he is neither a hero nor a supervillain, but faintly dull, a kind of flashman who is in the right place at the right time and able to claim credit for things that he doesn't actually do. Well, Matthew Restle wants you to believe that he's basically the assistant manager of a leisure centre. Yes. That he's a man with no qualities of any kind. Well, his only quality is an ability to manipulate and lie. Yeah.

And I think at the end of this series, we should look again at Cortez's character, see what conclusions we've come to about what was motivating him, what qualities or vices he may embody, and why historians have cast him in the way that they do. So I think that'd be a very interesting theme. But for now, I think that we should hold to, I think, the sense that both of us have that he's certainly not a mediocrity. He's a man capable of extraordinary gambles and extraordinary feats of courage. I mean, whatever else you think of him. Yeah. You use the word courage,

and that's what made me think of it, actually, because I think you're right. It does take extraordinary courage to do this. I mean, he's in for a penny, in for a pound, and to some extent, I suppose you could argue he has to do it. But he's marching to the coast. He doesn't really know who is waiting for him. Now, the man who is waiting for him on the coast, we met back in the very first episode, and I said to people then, don't forget this bloke. So here he is again, and he is a guy called Panfilo de Narbaez. It's probably about this point, Tom, that I should remind our listeners that we are a very inclusive podcast. The rest is history.

So we will be doing a range of different pronunciations of the Spanish names. We're not being inconsistent, are we, Tom? No, we're not. We're celebrating diversity. We are. So sometimes we'll pronounce them in a Castilian way. Sometimes, to please our American listeners, we'll be pronouncing them in the way that one would if one were a patron of a Hooters in North Dakota. And sometimes, because we are also a very patriotic podcast, in a defiantly English way.

Exactly. That's a deliberate choice, isn't it? It's an important choice born of inclusivity. And sometimes with just a hint of naruata. Right. So, Panfilo de Narbaez is on the coast. Now, who is he? He is this gigantic, red-bearded Castilian veteran who had waded through blood on Jamaica and on Cuba, who was well known for his extraordinary ferocity to the Tainos villages on those islands. And he is working for the governor of Cuba, Diego Velazquez. Who's fat and jolly, isn't he? Well, fat and jolly-ish by Spanish. I mean, he still kills a lot of people. Theo, our producer, is asking the key question.

He says, why are all the Spaniards apparently ginger? I don't know why that is, because people say Hernan Cortes is slightly red-bearded as well. I think it must be just in contrast to the Mesoamericans. They're from the Northwest, aren't they? I think so. The Celtic. The Celtiberians. The Celtiberian heritage.

Well, Cortes isn't from the Northwest. Cortes is from Extremadura. Yeah, but that's kind of just down from Galicia. For a hundred miles. Yeah, well, passing Tinker or something at some point. Just imagine the Spanish as being red bearded. This guy is like, there's a big red bearded guy, isn't there, in Game of Thrones. He's one of the wildlings.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Is that what he is? Yeah. Now, Earth is like him. There is much killing to be had here. Yes. He's like a Viking. That's exactly... I know the guy you mean.

Yeah. He's a sort of Icelandic or Norwegian actor. Unleash the dogs of hell. Kind of Brian Blessed. Right. But psychotic. That is absolutely... Tom, that becomes...

I know you just want to do the whole thing in the voice of Brian Blessed, but you see, I want to do the whole thing in the voice of Manuel from Fawlty Towers. Anyway, that's by the by. So what had happened is this. You may remember, if you were listening closely last week, that when Cortes turned in land,

he sent some of the gold back to Spain. He sent it under a guy called Montero and told him, take it back to the King of Spain. This will butter him up and this will basically buy me credit for when everyone says I've disobeyed my orders. But what Cortes did not know was that Montero would stop on the way on Cuba, that the gold would be spotted, which is exactly what happened, and that this would be reported to Velázquez in the capital, Santiago. So Cortes is off messing around with indigenous peoples in Mexico. Meanwhile, on Cuba, Velazquez is going absolutely

mental with rage. Again, he can't go himself because of the massive smallpox epidemic on Cuba, which is killing all, as he sees it, all his workforce, the indigenous people. So he contracts Narbaez and says, go to Mexico, deal with Cortes, bring him back dead or alive. He can't be off stealing what I see as my own lands, this frontier that I want to explore myself. So Narbaez has pitched up with a thousand men. Now, luckily for Cortes, he had left some people on the coast under the command of his friend, Gonzalo de Sandoval. And they are loyal to him. They're still loyal. They defend Veracruz. They hold out against Narbaez. So Narbaez falls back to the nearby Tottenham town of Zempoala, and he is based there.

So he's there with his thousand men. Cortes, Malinche, and their 80 men are kind of trudging across the landscape. By the way, we are massively simplifying this story. I mean, if you read Bernal Diaz or something. Because it's a long way. Yeah. It's a long way. So we're actually, you think this is a long series. We're skipping loads of interactions with towns, negotiations with chiefs.

Terrifying wildlife. Exchanges of feathers, all this kind of, we're skipping all that, aren't we, Tom? We are. Because we're very much a highlights... Highlights package. I was going to say we're the match of the day of History Podcast, but actually we're... I don't know if it's that comparison we should... Yeah, I think that's legitimate.

Maybe it is. I mean, it's presented by one of the owners of Goldhanger, so I think that's very much on brand. It is. Yeah. Presented by a great man, of course. Not that we'd be biased at all. Right.

So Cortez is going to the coast. It's now raining. It's the rainy season. So he and his men are trudging through. Do you think there are leeches? I think there are undoubtedly leeches, mosquitoes. Great predatory sucking leeches. You name it.

They're probably in terrible health. And this again is a sign to me that he's not a mediocrity, actually, that he doesn't lose the support of his men. They must be absolutely terrified against massive odds, but we're told that he's constantly quite cheerful and upbeat and he's inspiring them and stuff. He's also clever because he is exchanging messages with Narbayeth's camp and he is sending messengers with secret letters for some of Narbayath's lieutenants and little gifts of gold and jewels from Tenochtitlan. And Cortes is saying, look at all this. Because Dominic, I mean, just to recap something we said at some point last week,

I can't remember when exactly, but that this is not an army, is it? These are a consortia of often family-based groups of men who therefore are very subornable, bribe-able even one might say. Yeah. Think of the Sopranos. Exactly. Yes. I mean, these are gangs is one way of thinking about it. I mean, it's not quite fair, but it's probably more accurate than an army. So at the end of May anyway, he's met up with Gonzalo de Sandoval, who was with the other men from the coast, his own men. They've linked up and they're outside Sempoala, where Narbaez is based. Now, Narbaez is very complacent because he has so many men. They're all sleeping up on the temples, up in the pyramids in Sempoala. I mean, this entire story is a gift to some Netflix producer. I will, however, say

that if you do produce this, Tom and I will expect considerable involvement and royalties. They don't believe for a minute that Cortez is going to attack them. Cortez assembles his men in the forests outside the town. And in true Hollywood spirit, Tom, he reminds them of a line from the Song of Roland, Chanson de Roland, which is one of the most loved of all chivalric romances. Where is one of the most loved of all kind of chivalric romances. Where Roland is defending the past against overwhelming odds, isn't he? Against the Moors. It is, exactly. And they would all know this story. And Cortez says to them, remember, it is better to die for a good cause than to live with dishonor. That's so true.

But at the same time, Tom, the funny thing is, it's not really that good a cause. No, of course not. It's a terrible cause. Their cause is basically making money. Yes. But it's not really that good a cause no of course not it's a terrible cause their cause is basically making money yes but it's still true yes and then they strike and they strike in the dead of night when narvaez's men are all asleep but also of course when the darkness means that narvaez's advantage of numbers is much reduced and they're shouting long live the king obviously claiming that they are the loyalists here for for Cortes and the Holy Spirit, they supposedly- Because again, just to reiterate, because this is very important, the whole point of saying why Moxizuma has supposedly surrendered

the Aztec empire to the Spanish king is that this is key in allowing Cortes to present himself and his men as defenders of legitimacy and legality, rather than being a bunch of gangsters. Exactly. Exactly. And everything goes perfectly for Cortez. So some of Narbaez's men surrender straight away. They've probably been suborned beforehand.

Some of them are just overpowered. They're shocked. They've been asleep. It's dark. Narbaez himself, this massive Game of Thrones-like character, he fights on in very Game of Thrones style. He's cornered at the top of the pyramid by some pikemen, and they are sort of jabbing at him with their pikes, and they manage to gouge out his eye, Tom,

at which point he shouts, in very Shakespearean fashion, he claims that he shouted, Holy Mary, protect me, they have torn out my eye. Holy Mary, protect me, they've torn out my eye. Tom, did we need that that yeah clearly you think people did but i don't i felt that there was a lack of a lack of pizzazz in your impersonation of him that i like to think i've provided well okay so all right so cortez wins for the loss of two men now barith has led to cortez now barith is very sullen a very poor loser well you would be

you've lost your eye and you've lost the battle it's embarrassing sullen, a very poor loser. Well, you would be, wouldn't you? You've lost your eye and you've lost the battle. It's embarrassing all around. He's a very poor loser, I think, Tom. He says, well, Captain Cortez,

you should be proud of yourself to have beaten me and taken me prisoner. And Cortez says, that's not my victory, but God's. And then he says, is that what he said?

He's like Terry Thomas. He says, I can assure you, this victory is the least brilliant I have yet gained in New Spain. You and your man, total shower. Yes, which is very, I think that's a bit ungracious. So everything has worked out for Cortez.

So Naves, he goes off to govern Florida, doesn't he, I think? Well, he goes off to try and explore Florida, and it all ends very badly for him, Tom. But we'll maybe leave that to the very last episode when we tell you what happened to all the characters. Yeah. So Cortes has won a tremendous win. His gamble has worked. He has now more than a thousand men because basically all the other Spaniards agreed to

join his company. He has 80 gunners. He has 80 crossbowmen. And so Dominic, as a result of this, he can now sit back, breathe a deep sigh of relief. Everything's going brilliantly, isn't it? Nothing could possibly go wrong. Nothing could go wrong. So he's in Veracruz, sorting everything out. Everything's great. And their messengers come from Tenochtitlan, Tom. Oh no. What are they saying? Yes. And they're Tlaxcalans. And they say,

it's all falling apart. It's all going on in Tenochtitlan. What are you doing here on the coast? We're kicking off. It's all kicked off. The people of Tenochtitlan have turned on your Spanish friends. The capital is in flames, total chaos. Some of the Spaniards are dead. The rest of them are now besieged in the palace. They can't hold out much longer. The jeopardy is absolutely intense. And not that I'm going to quote from my own book, Tom, but I now will. Go on. There was no time to lose. They must ride for Tenochtitlan and war. Very Lord of the Rings. It is very.

So I think he'd already sent a party, hadn't he? Before this news reaches him to go back to Tenochtitlan. And they are, I think, cornered in a mountain pass and wiped out to a man and a beast. That's right. Yes. But presumably. Yes. But presumably. Yes. With all these extra men, extra horses, crossbowmen and things,

effectively they're invincible, are they? Against kind of Bronze Age weaponry. Yes. I think they're not totally invincible, but it would take a pretty significant army to overpower them. If you think that swords are the key weapons, if you have a sword and you're fighting blokes with clubs, you can kill quite a few of them before they overpower you probably. I mean, you might be unlucky and killed

by an arrow or spear or something, but you have horses, you have crossbows, you have some guns, you are quite a formidable prospect. Anyone who has played the game Civilization, in which you play various groups of people and you have to get them to the space age, and sometimes you will have entered the Renaissance and have cannon and horses and things. And you'll come up with an opponent who's still, you know, armed with clubs. Yeah, you're laughing. And you almost invariably win. So that is the parallel to bear in mind.

That is the parallel. So Cortes sets off once again. It takes him three weeks to get back to the capital. He knows the route by now. But as they go over the mountains and they go down into the hidden garden of the Valley of Mexico towards the lake, Bernal Diaz says in his recollection, this great memoirist of respect was shown us here, nor did any of the chiefs call upon us. And that is a complete contrast with their first journey when people had turned out to see them very excited. Now the doors are closed. The glances are sullen and hostile.

There's a kind of scary silence. But they advance unchallenged, Tom, which is remarkable. They go across the causeway, back into the city. It seems nobody is around. There's just this kind of deathly silence. They managed to get to the palace where they had left, where Pedro de Alvarado is holed up. They're not attacked, which seems to me slightly mysterious. I don't actually understand, to be completely honest, why people don't organize some kind of ambush against them. Maybe they just too intimidated i don't know yeah i mean would the news have reached them i i mean if moctezuma is a prisoner perhaps the chain of command has been so fractured that

it's broken down it's broken down in some way yes you know it's been decapitated the spy network or something i mean who who knows i don't Yes. But Cortez gets to the palace and there Pedro de Alvarado is waiting. And Cortez says, what has happened? What on earth is going on? And we'll find out, Tom, after the break.

Brilliant. Very exciting. Huge more excitements to come. We'll see you back in a few minutes. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. And together we host The Rest Is Entertainment

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therestisentertainment.com that's the rest is entertainment.com hello and welcome back to the rest is history and things are really kicking off in the great capital of the mexica cortez has returned triumphant from his venture to the coast he comes bringing all kinds of reinforcements and weaponry. He has reached Tenochtitlan, and there he's met with Pedro de Alvarado, who he had left in command in the capital. And Dominic, you left us on this cliffhanger, Cortés asking Alvarado, what has been happening while I've been away? So what has been happening while Cortés was away? So let's start with Alvarado himself. It's important to understand Alvarado's personality. He cheats at games.

He does cheat at games. We discussed that last time. Alvarado is a direct contemporary of Cortes, born in the same year, probably 1485, born in Extremadura. He'd been probably more successful than Cortes in his kind of Caribbean enterprises. He owned a big hacienda on Cuba.

Everybody says of Pedro de Alvarado, he's a great swashbuckler. He's a lad, isn't he? He's a lad. He owned a big hacienda on Cuba. Everybody says of Pedro de Alvarado, he's a great swashbuckler. He's a lad, isn't he? He's a lad. He's a Flashman-type character, actually, but not with Flashman's cowardice. He is a big man. He's handsome.

He has golden hair. He is charming. Slaps his thigh. Ha, ha, ha, ha. He is always very well-dressed. He's incredibly brave. It was always said of him that he had climbed the Giralda as a young man or as a boy in Seville, and people had watched in terror as he showed his courage in climbing this great tower.

He's very affable. He's very flamboyant. He has gold chains and all this. He'd be a terrible man to go on a stag party with, wouldn't he? He would, actually. He'd get you into terrible trouble. It would be exhausting, and you'd end up arrested. Yeah.

He's like the young Henry VIII or something. Yeah. He's a man who today would be wearing a gilet. I think it's fair to say. He would. Yeah. He would be wearing a kind of, I don't know, a Hackett branded gilet or something like that.

Anyway, that's by the by. He'd have loads of great girlfriends. He'd all be very posh. He would. They'd all be called Minty, his girlfriend, or something like that. Anyway, that's by the by. He'd have loads of great girlfriends who'd all be very posh. He would. They'd all be called Minty, his girlfriend, or something like that. Oh, Pedro. He'd go on yachting holidays. Put it away.

Yes. Yeah. So the Aztecs call him the son, Tonatia, because of his blonde hair and his sort of demeanor. So again, this weird lack of anyone with black hair in the Spanish ranks. Yes. Okay. They're all blonde or ginger. Very odd. Yeah. This is an aspect. So again, this weird lack of anyone with black hair in the Spanish ranks. Yes, okay. They're all blonde or ginger. Very odd.

Yeah, this is an aspect. I know you've been roaming the land giving talks about Roman hairstyles, haven't you, Tom? Yeah, I have. So surely the conquistador's hair is something that's been unexplored. It's an aspect that has grown over the course of these episodes. And Theo points out, he says, this is after Al-Andalus. It's after the Moorish influence on Spain. So what on earth is going on? Why don't they all have dark hair? Well points out, he says, this is after Al-Andalus. It's after the Moorish influence on Spain. So what on earth is going on?

Why don't they all have dark hair? Well, anyway, he doesn't. Cortes has left him in charge and he is a very bad man to have left in charge because he's unreliable. Yeah. You know.

A bloody top laugh. Let's massacre everyone in the temple. Because, of course, also the context, Tom, is that everything is incredibly uncertain because Montezuma is a prisoner. I mean, he is the center of the Aztec world. He is the guy that does all the sacrifices.

And they're having to kind of disguise it, that he's a prisoner. They are. And there's a growing sense, one chronicler, Nahuatl chronicler says, fear reigned as if everyone had lost heart. Even before it grew dark, everyone huddled and frightened groups everybody slept in terror so presumably that's the reason why people in the capital haven't taken full advantage of cortez's departure and tried to block his return i would guess yes because there's a tremendous uncertainty the people of the city are confused the emperor is not dead is he a prisoner is he a hostage is he a guest they don't know well also am i not right that there are rival factions within the court of course that there are people who identify with

opponents to the spaniards and then there are others often moctezuma's own sons who identify with the policy of trying to arrive at an accommodation with them yes all courts are prone to factionalism there's no reason to believe that the courts in Tenochtitlan would be any different. As you said before, Tom, last week, they don't have primogeniture. No. So it's up for grabs, isn't it? Succession is up for grabs. There must always have been people who had hoped that the succession would one day pass to them, or maybe resented the fact that Montezuma had got it in the first place 18 years earlier. So we have no insight into those kind of deliberations. What we do know is that over time, Alvarado and the Spaniards become incredibly jittery,

and they start to tell stories about the servants are no longer turning up, their supplies of food. They can't go and get their own food from the market because they're worried they'll be set upon. They require people to bring them food from the market. They are not getting food from the market. The story goes that one of the girls, the young women who washes their laundry, is found hanged outside the palace. Now, maybe this is one of those kind of stories that is told afterwards, but isn't really true. But it gives you a sense into their mentality. And again, this is a kind of primal colonial narrative, isn't it? The European adventurers who have gone too far, too deep. Yes.

And find themselves surrounded. And the question then becomes, should you stick or should you get out? Yes. It's so true, Tom. Yeah. You know, you get it in Kabul and in a sense, you get it with the American embassy in Saigon. I mean, this is a very long story. It is.

And this is the first iteration of it, really. It is the first iteration of it. Yeah, I'm just thinking about it now. We did the podcast about General Gordon in Khartoum. Yeah, General Gordon, of course, another classic example. Yeah. Surrounded, you know. But this is the first and most striking version of those stories about the European colonizers

who are trapped in a world they don't understand. Because now the city is gearing up for another of these big religious festivals this is the feast of tosh cattle when warriors will dance before a huge effigy of the god witsilaposhli the most beloved of all the aztecs gods the patron of the mexica and alvarado according to later accounts is starting to get warnings from informants particularly from tlaxcala. So there are still clearly some Tlaxcalans there. Some say, at this festival, you and the other leaders of the Spaniards are going to be tied up and people are going to tear your hearts out.

Others say, that's probably not going to happen. What's actually going to happen is people are planning to break into the palace and rescue Montezuma and kill you all. Some people say they're tunneling under the walls. There's one Spaniards account, which is that the Aztecs are preparing to cook them in giant pots with garlic, which fills the Spaniards with horror. Of course, this might be the Tlaxcalans causing trouble. Of course it might be. As they did in Cholula.

Yes. They're worried the Spaniards are too close to the Aztecs and they want to turn them against them. But presumably also that the Spaniards aren't speaking N Now what? I mean, they don't really know. No. It's a projection of their worst nightmares. And Melinche is off with Cortes, so she's not translating for them. Yes, exactly. And so the notion that the people around them are cannibals and

sacrifices and everything, if that's what you think, then your nightmares are going to breed all kinds of terrifying fantasies. So none of them might be true, but it doesn't mean that they're not in terrible danger, of course. No, of course. I think that's exactly it. Even if these stories are totally untrue, A, it gives you a clue into what the specters that are haunting the imagination of the Spaniards, and B, it doesn't mean that they're safe. They are in terrible danger. The festival begins in mid-May, and there's all kinds you described in that beautiful beautifully written passage that you read at the beginning of the episode yeah there's

all kinds of drumming and dancing and all of this kind of business the end of the festival will be that a sacrificial victim will go up to the temple that he will turn to face the lake he will be carrying a flute he will break it in two and then he will be killed and his heart will be taken out. That is how it is meant to end. But before that can happen, Pedro de Alvarado, Mr. Gile, he completely loses his cool. And he says to his men, this is it, we're all going to be killed. We must act first as we did in Cholula. A very good indigenous account of this comes from something called the Florentine Codex, which was told by indigenous people to, I think, Franciscan friars. So there is an element of cross-cultural contamination. There is.

It's not entirely reliable, I think it's fair to say. But it's more reliable in giving the Mexica perspective. It is. Than Diaz's accounts. and so this goes as follows the festivity was being observed and there was dancing and singing with voices raised in song the singing was like the noise of waves breaking against the rocks when the moment had come for the spaniards to do their killing they came out equipped for battle they came and closed off each of the places where people went in and out when they'd closed those exits they stationed themselves

in each and no one could come out. And when this had been done, they went into the temple courtyard to kill people. Those whose assignment it was to do the killing just went on foot, each with his metal sword and leather shield. Then they surrounded those who were dancing, going among the cylindrical drums. They struck a drummer's arms.

Both of his hands were severed. Then they struck his neck. His head landed far away. Then they stabbed everyone with iron lances and struck them with iron lances and struck them with iron swords they struck some in the belly and their entrails came spilling out those who tried to escape could go nowhere when anyone tried to go out they struck and stabbed him the blood flowed like water and gathered into pools the pools began to grow and the stench of blood

and guts filled the air so the thing that immediately strikes you about that is that from the spanish perspective the idea of sacrificing to a god at a festival is hideous it's what demons demand and yet they are spilling more blood at this festival now than the mashika would ever have done yes because they're killing hundreds of people and there's a kind of grim irony there isn't there yeah there is absolutely they're killing hundreds of people. And there's a kind of grim irony there, isn't there? Yeah, there is absolutely. They're killing hundreds of people, men, women, and children, totally unarmed. And taking them by surprise at a festival. So it's kind of like a terrorist attack at a Christmas fair or something. To the Mexica, and indeed to the modern reader, this is utterly appalling behavior.

I mean, it is monstrous behavior. They are striking civilians. I mean, they're doing it out of terror. They're doing it because they think they have no choice, of course, but they're also doing it in order to terrify, I think, aren't they? They're laying down a marker. As they did in Cholula. Yes, as they did in Cholula. Now, the difference with Cholula is Tenochtitlan is too big. So they've closed the gates of the square and started to kill everybody inside the square,

hundreds of people. But beyond the gates, people are shouting, supposedly, lords of the Mexica, hasten, hurry, prepare your weapons, hasten, hurry. We are betrayed. Our warriors are being slaughtered. And people are trying to burst to get into the square. The gates give way. Hundreds of people who have armed themselves with clubs and obsidian, black volcanic glass, knives and things, come storming into the square. The Spanish now fall back. They are under attack. Alvarado is hit by a stone on the head which he greatly resents.

Bloody hell. Yeah. It's not sporting behaviour. Yeah. But he manages to gather his men, form them up, lead them back to the palace of Axeacatl in a sort of fighting retreat. They get back to the palace. Now meanwhile, while he's been out, the rest of his men who were left in the palace, he had ordered them to start killing the prisoners. So they must have had more prisoners. They must have had some

other hostages, members of Montezuma's family, noblemen, advisors of Montezuma's. They've killed some of them, so there are bodies in the palace. And Dominic, what is the timeframe with this in relation to Cortes? Cortes is rushing back to Tenerife land with his reinforcements. Does Alvarado know that Cortez is imminent? I mean, when will Cortez get back? I don't think Cortez is on the scene yet. I'm not certain because we can't be sure exactly when this happened, I think. Historians guess, but I'm not sure we exactly know. And we also don't know exactly what Alvarado knows. I think he's not thinking about it that coolly, actually,

in such a calculated way. He's just lashing out. I think he's lashing out and thinking, hoping that Cortes will get back and bail him out. Because otherwise they're completely screwed either way. Because otherwise, yes. Yeah. So he gets back. Montezuma is still alive.

Montezuma is now, without any shadow of a doubt, their hostage, their prisoner. By nightfall, they're all back in the palace again with Montezuma is now without any shadow of a doubt they're hostage they're prisoner by nightfall they're all back in the palace again with montezuma there is a huge crowd outside hammering on the gates there are spanish kind of firing crossbows at the people i'm outside they bring montezuma out onto the roof it's extraordinary scene alvarado is there with a knife. Montezuma is there. And there's another guy called Itzcoatzin, who is the lord of Tlatelolco, which is the market, the suburb that's the market. And Itzcoatzin says to the crowd, people of the Mexica, put down your weapons. Montezuma asks you to put your weapons down. We can't win. Return to your homes. You know, all this.

So can I just ask, though? Yeah. I mean, again, where are we getting this from? Well, here you go, Tom. Here you go. Every single detail of this story, we are taking on trust, either from Spanish sources like Bernal Diaz or Gomara, who was later Cortez's secretary. Hagiographer, one might say.

Bernard Diaz said, don't believe a word Gomara says is making it all up. Bernard Diaz is saying that then. Yeah. Or we're getting it from the so-called indigenous accounts. But quite a lot of those indigenous accounts are being written down by Spaniards, by Franciscans and so on. But also some of these accounts are coming from members of Moctezuma's family. Yes.

And they are concerned to preserve their lands, aren't they? Exactly. So if they can cast Moctezuma as pliant and submissive to the Spanish king. Exactly right. Then that's good for them. Everybody has an agenda. Which in turn isn't to say that it's completely implausible, because it could well be. I mean, I think that this is what makes best sense of Moctezuma's behavior, is that he has arrived at the conclusion that there is no prospect of stopping the Spaniards. He's turned into Denethor in Lord of the Rings.

Oh, crikey, Tom. That's a good comparison. He's in despair. Yeah. You know, he's gazed into the mirror and he has seen the seas teeming with mighty ships with iron and horses. So, I mean, the simple answer is we don't know. I mean, we will never have a conclusive answer to it. No. But, I mean, by the way, one other aspect of the indigenous sources, some of them are written

by the Mexica's enemies, so by the Tlaxcalans and so on. That's yet another dimension. I think it's plausible, it's absolutely plausible that they would bring him out onto the roof and that he would say, go back to your homes. Lay down your arms. Because he's got a knife at his throat, for one thing. What I also think is plausible is another detail that we have, which is that somebody in the crowd shouts, and this in such a regimented world as that of the Aztecs would be a remarkable moment, that somebody shouts, who is Montezuma now to give us orders?

Why should we listen to Montezuma? He has lost his authority. I think there's no doubt that he must have lost a lot of his authority at this point. Because the image that is often there in the sort of orthodox European histories is of the Aztecs as this uniquely passive, superstitious, childish people. Their emperor has been taken prisoner and they just don't know what to do and they are so confused and bewildered and all of this. I think that's... I mean, lots of people are confused and bewildered, but that doesn't mean they don't have agency and it doesn't mean they don't have agendas of their own. No, well, they don't. But also,

Moctezuma is very, very experienced. He's had what? He's 18 years, is it? He's been ruler. He's very proficient. He's a very hard man, but he has had time to talk to Malinche, to talk to Cortes. So his perspective may be that of the sober elder, but presumably the guys who are howling for blood at the base of the palace are warriors for whom none of these considerations matter. Yeah, it's a very good point. They're probably young. They're probably guys in their late teens, early twenties, fired up. By the way, there's just been a huge massacre and they are out for blood. So the attack redoubles, they ignore Montezuma. And it's sometime after this, some days after this, that Cortes had arrived. So this is the story that Alvarado tells to Cortes. And now, of course, Cortes has walked into the trap too. But all that background makes it even weirder that Cortvarado tells to Cortez. And now, of course, Cortez has walked into the trap too. But all that background makes it even weirder that Cortez is able to get in. I know.

I agree with you. I totally agree with you. Sense of something not quite right there, perhaps? Well, is there a lacuna in the story? Or is it a trap? Yeah, maybe. Did the Mexica say, this other guy's pitching up. Let's let him walk straight in.

And then he'll be bottled up too. I mean, that's possible. Okay. Yes, I can see that. Yes. But you're right, Tom. I do feel like there's something missing there. Why didn't they attack Cortez? Why did they let him walk across the causeway? Anyway, he has come across the causeway and now he has this dilemma. What on earth is he going to do? Montezuma is his hostage. He could do a deal with Montezuma, but actually Cortez seems to have given up on Montezuma is his hostage. He could do a deal with Montezuma, but actually Cortes seems to have given up on Montezuma at this point. He says, Montezuma was talking to Narbiath behind my back. I don't trust him. He's lost his power. Forget about him. They have one of Montezuma's

brothers, a guy called Cuitlahuaq. They say to him, will you go and get us supplies from the market? This is very, do you know what this reminds me of? It's when Julius Caesar was holed up in Alexandria and he kept releasing Cleopatra's brothers who then went and betrayed him. And this is that again. He releases this guy's brother, off he goes, and he immediately incites the crowd and says, you know, we shouldn't do any deal with the Spaniards. They're terrible people and all this. And don't they start pulling up the causeways at this point? Yes, exactly. The Nesica start to demolish and block the causeways. They don't want the Spaniards to get out. They've got them where they want them. Cortes knows that the western

causeway is still open. He sends his friend Diego de Odaf to go and try and investigate. He only gets a short way, a few streets, and then has to retreat under a hail of stones and arrows. So now it's very clear the Spaniards are trapped. They have very little food, very little fresh water. We don't know how many of them there are. We do know that Cortes came with a thousand men. So that's a lot of people to feed. Yeah, right.

They're raging. Come and get the gold and find yourself holed up in a palace. They're furious. Absolutely furious. This is not what they'd sign up for at all. The worst holiday ever. There must be some Tlaxcalans and maybe Totonacs, we don't know,

lurking around as well. How many of them? It's impossible to say. Among the Spaniards, you can imagine them kind of there, camped in corridors and chambers and bedrooms and whatever of this palace, crammed in, sweaty,

bloodstained, hungry, wet. It's a classic science fiction thing, isn't it? Yeah. You're stuck in the spaceship. Yeah. You've run out of ammunition. It's the plot of Aliens or something. Yes. The aliens are outside and they're all waiting to come and lay their eggs in your stomach. It is. I mean, Bernal Diaz says, we were to be sacrificed to their gods. Our hearts were to be torn from our bodies. The blood was to be drawn from our veins, and our arms and legs were to be eaten at their festivals. Our other body parts would be thrown to the tigers, lions, and serpents, which hadn't been fed for days, so they would devour our flesh with real enthusiasm. I mean, this is obviously pure projection. He doesn't know any of this.

Well, there are no tigers or lions, are there? You already pointed this out. But this is probably exactly what they're thinking. Of course. That nothing good is coming. There are stories that they start seeing omens, headless men. One man says he'd seen a head walking around outside attached only to a foot. Imagine that with kind of hopping. Yeah, exactly.

That probably didn't happen to him, I think. That's the kind of thing you take if you go into the depths of Mexico and take certain substances. Exactly. That's what you'd see. At some point, obviously, Cortés decides, okay, we're in desperation now. We'll bring Montezuma out. We'll give it one more go. And they take him out onto the roof again.

And this is this very, very, very famous scene. There are people throwing stones, arrows all this whenever they see a spaniard so as soon as cortez goes out onto the roof this hail of missiles some of the spaniards use their shields to protect montezuma and they bring him out and when the crowd sees the emperor they stop and there's this sort of hush and montezuma god knows how is he imposing is he exhausted and terrified is he in in despair? Is he begging? But he says to them, hear me, people of the Mexica or something like this. And then, as if it's a signal, though probably it wasn't a signal, but as if it's a signal,

the crowd start throwing more stuff at him. They just drown him out with jeers. And as one Spaniard says, it was as if the heavens were raining stones, arrows, darts, and bricks. And Montezuma is hit by a stone. Or is he? Well, I think it's plausible that he could be hit. The Spaniards claim he's hit. This feels like it could happen. It could easily happen that the people down below are hotheads. There may well be people in the crowd saying, he sold us out to the strangers from the sea.

So Matthew Restle in his book suggests there are five theories as to how he might have died. So projectiles and it's manslaughter, or that the people down there are deliberately trying to kill Moctezuma, in which case it's murder. That Moctezuma kind of kills himself, that he's deliberately exposing himself because he's in despair. The fourth one is that Cuauhtemoc, who we haven't mentioned yet, who is kind of the hot-headed relative who is keen to succeed him, that he's responsible. And then the fifth is that the Spaniards kill him, that they're stabbed to death. So there's an odd detail in one of the accounts written by a Jesuit who says that there were those who said that in order for the wound, i.e. the stab, not to be seen, they put a sword into his nether regions.

Yes. In other words, the Spanish stab him up his ass. It's so Tom Holland to go for the nether regions story. And there's another weird story that his body gets kind of lifted up. His sword's been run up through his ass and they're kind of lifting him up on the sword and waving him around on the roof, which seems very improbable. I think that's very improbable. Yes. So I'll give you my accounts in just a second, but here is the absolute standard accounts

from Bernal Diaz. Bernal Diaz says he was hit by these missiles on the roof. The Spaniards took him downstairs. They bandaged his wounds and they asked him to take something that would strengthen him, but he refused as though he'd lost the will to live. Bernard Diaz says, contrary to all expectation, we soon heard that he had expired. Cortes, his officers and all of us shed tears for this unfortunate monarch. Indeed, many of our men who had been in constant attendance upon him mourned for him as if they had lost a parent. Right. So throughout this series and just recently, you've been comparing

Cortes and the Spaniards to Caesar and his legions. And the scene of Caesar weeping over the death of Pompey, his rival and his friend, this is the kind of the language that you would expect from a classically educated historian who is trying to elevate the stature of Cortes, which man who has proved himself so cold-blooded, ruthless and opportunistic, standing there with tears rolling down his cheeks at the death of his great friend. I mean, against that, the Spanish have killed a lot of kings before. I mean, then Queens, they killed Queen on Hispaniola. They've killed Hachuey in Cuba. I mean, they're not exactly reticent about it. But don't forget it's important to them to claim that he had surrendered to them. Yeah. He can't be their enemy. Yeah. So that's the explanation, isn't it? I think.

Now there is a hint in an indigenous source of a very different version. This is a book called The History of the Indies of New Spain, which was published in 1581 by a guy called Diego Duran, who was a Dominican. He is not obviously indigenous, but he based it on Nahuatl sources. So it's not just indigenous. It has a hint of Spanish in it as well. He says that after the Spanish had left Tenochtitlan, which we'll come to tomorrow, the Mexica burst into the building. They found Montezuma with a chain about his feet and five dagger wounds in his chest.

And nearby lay the nobles and great lords that had been held prisoner with him. And you mentioned the Jesuit source that say that the Spaniards shoved the sword in his nether regions. I think the nether regions thing to me smacks too much of what happens to kings. You know, Edward II, all these kinds of things, that it's too much of a standard device. But is it plausible that they would have had him chained and that they would have stabbed him in the chest?

I think absolutely it is because he clearly is no longer useful to them. If his own people won't listen to him, what is the point? What is the point of keeping him alive? He's just a focus for rebellion and resistance because we know they killed other people, his advisors and other nobles. It's also a very brutally decisive statement of the resolution that Cortez presumably by this point has taken, which is they have no choice but to get out. Negotiations are not going to work. And in a way, it's kind of, again, a crossing of the Rubicon. If you kill your hostage, then that leaves you with no option but to try and make your escape. And that, Dominic, is the story for tomorrow.

It is. So I think exactly that, Tom. I think they've killed Montezuma because they don't want to take him with them. Because at this point, they have decided somehow, Tom, they have to get out of this city. And the story of how they do it is the most extraordinary kind of... It's like something from an action movie times a hundred. The Noce Triste, it's called, isn't it? The sad night. Yeah. We'll come to that tomorrow.

Yes. So that will be tomorrow's episode. But if you just can't wait, you know the form. I've been repeating this at the end of every episode, but I'm contractually obliged to do this because if I don't, Theo will shout at me. So you can find out if the Spaniards make their escape, if they do, how they do it, by signing up to the Restless History Club

and you will get access to it straight away. But if you want to wait, then do by all means wait. Yeah, what you've done there, which is very nice, is you've cast yourself as Montezuma, Theo as Hernan Cortes, and that makes me Pedro de Alvarado. So I'm going to be keeping my legs crossed before we get on to the next episode. Very nice.

So we'll see you either in a few minutes or tomorrow. Hasta luego. Bye bye. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman and together we host The Rest Is Entertainment it's your weekly fix

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