The Rest Is History - 468. The Murder of Franz Ferdinand: The Crime (Part 4)

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Archduke Franz Ferdinand has arrived in Sarajevo for a military inspection, alongside his wife, Sophie, on the 28th of June 1914. Unbeknownst to them, six assassins, including Gavrilo Princip, line th...e route of the motorcade, from Sarajevo train station to the town hall. Having completed the inspection, the Archduke faces a first assassination attempt on the way to the town hall, as a bomb, thrown at his car by one of the conspirators, narrowly misses, wounding more than 15 people. Although clearly perturbed by the assassination attempt, Franz Ferdinand decides to continue with his day as planned, thus sealing his fate… Join Tom and Dominic in the final instalment of our series on the murder of the Franz Ferdinand, as they delve into the finals hours of his life, and look at the series of poor decisions that would lead to Gavrilo Princip completing his mission, and going down in infamy… _______ *The Rest Is History LIVE in the U.S.A.* If you live in the States, we've got some great news: Tom and Dominic will be performing throughout America in November, with shows in San Francisco, L.A., Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Boston and New York. *The Rest Is History LIVE at the Royal Albert Hall* Tom and Dominic, accompanied by a live orchestra, take a deep dive into the lives and times of two of history’s greatest composers: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Ludwig van Beethoven. Tickets on sale now at TheRestIsHistory.com _______ Twitter: @TheRestHistory @holland_tom @dcsandbrook Producer: Theo Young-Smith Assistant Producer: Tabby Syrett Executive Producers: Jack Davenport + Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Thank you for listening to The Rest Is History. For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, and membership of our much-loved chat community, go to therestishistory.com and join the club. That is therestishistory.com. The day was mild. A cloudless sky lay over the broad chestnut trees. It was a day made to be happy. The vacation days would soon set in for the people and children, and on this holiday they anticipated the entire summer with its fresh air, its lush green, and the forgetting of all daily cares. I was sitting at some distance from the crowd in the park reading a book. Nevertheless, I was simultaneously aware of the wind in the trees, the chirping of the birds, and the music which was wafted toward me from the park. And so it was that I suddenly stopped reading when the music broke off abruptly.
Starting point is 00:01:06 I did not know what piece the band was playing. I noticed only that the music had broken off. Instinctively, I looked up from my book. The crowd which strolled through the trees as a single light-moving mass also seemed to have undergone a change. It too had suddenly come to a halt. Something must have happened. So that was Stefan Zweig in The World of Yesterday, and he is describing the afternoon of Sunday, the 28th of June, 1914. He was reading in a park in Baden, just outside Vienna. And of course course the something that has happened is the news arriving of the assassination of archduke franz ferdinand in sarajevo and he posted this manuscript just before he committed suicide in 1942 at the height of the Second World War, the Nazi tyranny.
Starting point is 00:02:12 And so he is writing about that moment as the great hinge in recent history, the moment that opens up the horrors not just of the trenches and the collapse of the Habsburg Empire, but also the coming of the Nazis and the seeming destruction of European civilization. So, Dominic, the day that we are about to describe is a day that matters as much, perhaps, as any day in the whole course of history. Absolutely. Do you think that's going too far?
Starting point is 00:02:37 No, I don't think it's going too far at all, Tom. Lots of people will say, oh, of course, the First World War would have happened anyway, or a war would have happened anyway. Zweig in his wonderful book, which gives a portrait of the world that was destroyed, the pre-1914 world, he obviously takes this moment in the park, as you said, as the dividing line between civilization and barbarism. And for people of his generation, of course, he's Jewish. It was. yeah afterwards nothing would be the same again the the world the civilization that the common society of central europe was destroyed that afternoon
Starting point is 00:03:13 i mean there's also another great writer who's a citizen of the hapsburg empire and jewish which is franz kafka yes great short story writer in his diary, there is no mention of it at all. And in a way that I find just as moving that he is carrying on his life. He's not noticing it. Right. He's unaware. I mean, if he is aware, it's not important to him to note it down. But of course, that will overwhelm him just as much. Yeah. Whether you notice it or not, it makes no difference. It doesn't make any difference, exactly. And I think you're absolutely right. It's a day that deserves real consideration.
Starting point is 00:03:49 So we should give it the detail it deserves. Even before Franz Ferdinand set foot in Sarajevo, the 28th of June was a special day. It's a special day for him and Sophie, his wife, who is, of course, also killed that day. It's the anniversary of the day on which he swore the oath of renunciation in which he basically gave up the throne for his future children
Starting point is 00:04:10 and made this morganatic marriage with sophie it's not his wedding anniversary which some historians say was but it is an important date for an incredibly important day a really poignant day actually isn't it it's the day of his humiliation but it's also the day that made it impossible for him to have happiness with his wife yeah but also for a lot of people in sarajevo it's a very important day because it's saint vitus's day vidovdan as they call it it is the anniversary of the battle of kosovo in 1389 when when Serbia was overwhelmed by the Ottomans. And on that day, a Serbian knight called Miloš Oblič assassinated the sultan, Murad I.
Starting point is 00:04:54 And that moment becomes one of almost mystical significance to Serbs. It has significance, of course, to this day, Tom, which is why Kosovo is still such a live issue right now in the 21st century. Right. So it's potentially incredibly inflammatory. Has anyone kind of advised the Archduke that maybe it's not the best day to be driving in an open car through the streets of Sarajevo? People have discussed it. They have talked about it. They know that, for example, there's going to be a big service at the Orthodox Church in Sarajevo. There's always an annual remembrance service for Serbian patriots
Starting point is 00:05:29 who fell at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. And because this year, St. Vitus' Day, is a Sunday and a holiday, obviously, people aren't at work, there will be more people than ever before. The Austrians know this. The authorities know it. But the army maneuvers that he's coming to watch have been scheduled for a couple of days beforehand. They can't be shifted.
Starting point is 00:05:52 Plus, if it goes well, which they think it will, it's a great symbol of how settled and stable things are under the Habsburg Empire. The secret police, by the way, had said it's a bad idea. But of course, as we talked about last time, Franz Ferdinand is a very stubborn man. And he has specifically said, I do not want to live under a glass jar. I, you know, will not be followed by security all my life. I want to live freely and just take the risk and trust in God. Yeah. He's kind of upholding the idea of the continuity and stability of the empire in Sarajevo.
Starting point is 00:06:25 On that note, we should just mention that we are in a symbol of Habsburg civilization in Sarajevo, namely a Viennese cafe. We are indeed. The heart of the city. At the Hotel Europa, exactly. Where we were for our last episode. Tom, you finished your cake? I have finished my cake. I'm feeling a bit ill.
Starting point is 00:06:42 I'm not going to lie. Stupidly wolfed the whole lot down. But if you hear the steaming of coffee machines in the background, the chinking of plates, that's what's going on. So Franz Ferdinand is well aware that he may not get a universally ecstatic reception. And actually on his journey down the coast, which we talked about at the end of the last episode, he has actually tried to learn some Serbo-Croat.
Starting point is 00:07:05 He has learned some sentences. And actually, when he comes inland through Herzegovina and then into Bosnia proper, he smiles and he waves at people and he uses the phrases he's learned. Like you, Dominic. Just like me, Tom. Yeah, the parallels are uncanny.
Starting point is 00:07:17 He says to people, you know, how do you do? I'm very pleased to be here. What a lovely day it is. And actually, of course, a lot of people are really surprised that he's bothered and he is delighted by his reception he was reportedly exhilarated by the time on the 25th of june he arrives in the spa town of elidja above where we are now in the hills and he arrives and there's a crowd there it's pouring with rain
Starting point is 00:07:39 that he's in very good spirits people are waving umbrellas and cheering. They're shouting zivio, which is kind of long life, long may you live. And he uses all his phrases again. Yeah, like you. And Sophie is there. She's already arrived by train. They stay in the best hotel, probably the best hotel in Bosnia, frankly. And they've built him a private chapel, haven't they? They have done.
Starting point is 00:08:01 So the Hotel Bosna had been built as a spa resort by the austrians in elidja it has been refurbished they have built him a special apartment so you can go for a massage and have a mass massage and a mass very nice everything happens very good one everything happens very good once so the next day is the first day of the military maneuvers and that goes really really well they have 22 000. That's about half the total Austrian troop strength in Bosnia. It's raining, but it all goes really well. Franz Ferdinand has lightened the packs. He's given the orders, actually, that the backpacks of all the soldiers
Starting point is 00:08:36 should be lighter than they otherwise would be because he wants them to have a good time. And that all goes well. He's very impressed. He's a party animal beneath the walrus exterior. He's making great jokes. So there's a man lurking in the bushes who leaps out of the bushes holding what looks like a gun.
Starting point is 00:08:52 And the bodyguards rush to intercept this bloke. And Franz Fenner says, no, look at him. He's a photographer. Let him shoot me. Yeah. That's his job. He's a cult photographer. Everybody thinks, what a japester what a great joke at the end of
Starting point is 00:09:09 the first day he and sophie do something very sweet actually they get a car and they make an impromptu visit they drive down the hill into the city because she wants to go and buy a carpet she has heard about the bazaar some we were So we've been walking through the bazaar quarter, which is probably pretty unchanged. I mean, obviously now it's full of souvenir shops, but there's mosques, there's an old caravanserai. It feels like a little bit of Turkey. And they had gone with no security and it had been great.
Starting point is 00:09:43 The crowds, people had rushed around them been delighted to see them you know people are very excited uh that the archduke the heir to the throne his wife have come they'd had an absolutely brilliant time the next day is the second day of the maneuvers saturday the 27th of june that day goes really well as as well and franz ferdinand actually sends a telegram to the emperor he says my journey has been excellent the reception very gratifying and patriotic the condition of the soldiers and their performance were outstanding and really beyond praise because he's genuinely quite impressed isn't he by their performance he thinks everybody says our army is
Starting point is 00:10:21 terrible actually they've done pretty well now to, to be honest, Tom, when the First World War starts, the Austrians do not cover themselves with glory, no. But he says, you know, all is good. Tomorrow I'm going to go to Sarajevo. In the evening, I'll come back. Everything's been great. I'll see you when I get back. And he has his words of commendation.
Starting point is 00:10:40 You said in the previous podcast, he's regarded as a very rude man, which often he is. But he has this read by every regimental commander in the previous podcast he's regarded as a very rude man which often he is but he has this read by every regimental commander in the language of each regiment to be read out to the soldiers and they're delighted the governor of bosnia general potty orick he is delighted everything is they have a banquet that evening strauss waltz's fine wines all of this stuff it's great it's everything that um the hapsburg Empire should be at its best. Now, that evening, some people say,
Starting point is 00:11:09 listen, this has been great. Let's not push our luck. One of his flunkies is a guy called Baron von Rummerskirch, says to him, why don't we just bin the rest of the trip? Go back to the coast. The Dreadnought is still there. Why don't you go up to Trieste with Sophie? You can have your wedding anniversary there on the first of july it'll be brilliant and one reason he says that
Starting point is 00:11:28 is a bosnian croat leader dr sunaric has been talking to sophie the night before and sophie had said we've been to the bazaar and we had great fun you know everyone was really nice they were really kind to us and there's no problems here at all and dr sunarich had said to sophie listen i pray to god that you say that tomorrow evening because i'm being really worried about it when i see you go safe and sound a great burden will be lifted from me and all this so when they have this conversation the governor's adjutant who's a guy called lieutenant colonel von merizzi we'll hear about him a little bit later he says what you can't scrap the plan you know that would look really bad there are loads of
Starting point is 00:12:11 hapsburg loyalists in the city who cannot wait to see you tomorrow it would be insulting for the governor just go through the plan and there won't be any problems at all it'll be fine it'll be fine nothing will happen and as the historian thomas otty says with that decision began the end of austria hungary so it's the 28th of june this is sunday yes it's the anniversary of the battle of kosovo and it's the anniversary of franz ferdinand making the decision renunciation all that kind of thing yeah and sun rises over the hills that surrounds sarajevo yeah and the arch the Archduke and the Duchess are in their private chapel, aren't they? They do. They start the day with Mass,
Starting point is 00:12:50 and then they go back to their apartment, to the room. Franz Ferdinand is practicing again his phrases. He has a paragraph at the end of the speech he's going to give. He's going to go to the city hall and make a speech, and he wants to end it with his phrases. With his phrases and a little serbo-croate. A double room with a shower three beers please exactly help i've been mugged here is my travel insurance number oh dear my cart has fallen to its doom he's got this paragraph and he's going to end and he's practicing and practicing and practicing when he's finished doing this he comes
Starting point is 00:13:21 out and sophie says i've had brilliant news we've just had a message from vienna max their oldest son who is i think about 11 he's just had his exam results from the shotten academy and he's done really really well it's all too poignant so they send max a telegram then and there well done son we'll see you tomorrow can't wait to see you we can celebrate properly so it is very sad tom actually isn't it so by then it's about um about nine o'clock nine o'clock they're going to take the train it's only going to be a 20 minute ride or so the train a special court train again very like kennedy going from um fort worth to dallas yeah exactly just a short hop and almost unnecessarily short hop so they get the train down to the station in Sarajevo now to remind people Sarajevo runs from west to east along a
Starting point is 00:14:13 sort of very narrow valley with a river in the middle the Milyatska and that river has been straightened out by Habsburg engineers it has indeed there's a road running alongside it and the station is at the left-hand end, so the west end, and they're going to be heading to the right, to the east. They're in all their fineries, so anybody who has ever seen the photos will know what I'm talking about.
Starting point is 00:14:34 The Archduke is wearing this sort of sky blue military uniform, into which he's sort of been crammed, hasn't he? Yeah, stuffed. Stuffed. Yeah. Like a kind of sausage. Yeah, absolutely. He's got a gold crammed, hasn't he? Yes, stuffed. Yeah, like a kind of sausage. Yeah, absolutely.
Starting point is 00:14:47 He's got a gold collar, very tight collar. He's got his hat with his green ostrich feathers. An absolutely magnificent hat with these green sort of feathers. I don't know if he'd shot the bird himself. I imagine not. There aren't many ostriches in Vienna, are there? No. And Sophie is wearing all white.
Starting point is 00:15:02 She has the most enormous hat, doesn't she? She's got a splendid hat with a white veil. If you think Edwardian summer, what was it like in June 1914? That's the image that comes into my mind. Shimmering, upper-class woman in white dress. Exactly. So they get into their car. So the motorcade has six cars.
Starting point is 00:15:23 It's often thought they're in the first car they are not they're in actually depending which account you read either the second or the third i think it's pretty clear they're in the third the first car is a car for plainclothes detectives and police some of whom have already been left behind in a kind of confusion there's an air of slight confusion and shambles about this which I think actually probably is standard and not very surprising. It's an age, you know, when communications are difficult. Yeah, no one's got texts. No, they can't text each other and say when they're setting off.
Starting point is 00:15:52 So they have to leave some people behind. The second car has the mayor of Sarajevo, who is a Bosnian Muslim. He is called Fehim Efendi Čurčić. He's got his fez on and his official sash. And the chief of police, who is called Dr. Gerda. And then you've got the third car, the Archdukel car that you can see right to this day in the museum in Vienna, made by Griff and Stift.
Starting point is 00:16:16 And this is flying the imperial flag, yellow and black Habsburg flag. The chauffeur is a Czech. He's called Leopold Sojka. And also with him in the front is the guy who owns the car who is count franz harak i get the impression he's a kind of friend of franz fernand or kind of general hanger on in that kind of world then you have behind them in the jump seat governor potty orick now regular listeners will know there's only one context in which you ever
Starting point is 00:16:45 mention a jump seat in a car and that is somebody is being assassinated assassinated so in 1963 it was governor john connolly of texas and on this occasion it is uh it's a lesson of history isn't it if you're a governor yeah and you're going on an open motorcade through a city. Don't sit in the jump seat. Jump seat spells doom, Tom. And on that note, did you see the number plate of the car? Go on. So it's A111118. Right.
Starting point is 00:17:16 The war finished on the 11th of the 11th 18. What are the chances? What are the chances? It's all part of the conspiracy, right? Very eerie. Yeah. So then you've got the Archduke and Sophieie in the back of this eerily number plated car so remember there is very little security and that is by design general pottyorek has given explicit instructions the army must not enter the city and they've been told it doesn't want to look like an occupying
Starting point is 00:17:43 power no if they enter the city they'll be in been told... Because it doesn't want to look like an occupying power. No. If they enter the city, they'll be in the deepest of trouble. Police only. And there's only 120 police in Sarajevo. And we must keep security as light as possible so that people can see the royal couple. So they set off. Then a bit which has actually left out of most accounts.
Starting point is 00:18:02 But it's very touching. They stop at the military barracks first it has been raining but the sun has come out and sophie has this big parasol he carries it for her doesn't he he does so he's like her servitor her her knight and this is against all protocol in all the court protocol of course remember she was not allowed to be next to him. She had to be way behind him. On this occasion, they walk together to inspect the troops. He holds her parasol for her. And as one of the writers, I can't remember which one it is, says, today, instead of denying her existence, he celebrated it.
Starting point is 00:18:38 He exalted it. He, crown prince of the realm, was her servitor. He carried her parasol at the most public occasion so it's quite a poignant so he had that moment of happiness exactly they get back in their cars cannons are now booming um in honor of the visit from the kind of the fortress above the city they set off along the apple key along the river embankment so this is the broad road yes built by the engineers along the straightened river. They are driving deliberately slowly
Starting point is 00:19:07 because they want people to see them and because they want to see the city. They want to look. Sarajevo is famous within the Habsburg Empire. It has mosques. It has Catholic churches. It has Orthodox churches. Virtually nowhere else has this mix has this mix and they
Starting point is 00:19:26 want to see it so they're going very slowly along the river there are quite big crowds people are flying imperial flags in the windows there are shops have been told to put pictures of the archduke up in the shops there are lots of flowers and as far as we know there was no reason to doubt it the reaction is very warm people are shouting jivio hurrah long live the archduke great stuff love it all seems to be going brilliantly what could possibly go wrong well we said the cannons were booming the cannons are booming booming booming and then there's another boom that is not a cannon and everybody is horrified well some of them think it's a kind of tire blowing, don't they? Or the engine backfiring or something like that.
Starting point is 00:20:09 And there's suddenly a sense of confusion for the people watching. Something is happening around the Archduke's car. Sophie is reaching to the back of her neck. She's felt a kind of little sting like an insect or something has bitten her. And suddenly people are running along the quayside. The Archduke's car stops. Count von Harrach, who is in the front, jumps out. And what has happened is somebody has thrown a bomb. It has almost certainly hit the back of their car, hit the kind of canopy which has been lowered,
Starting point is 00:20:42 bounced off and exploded under the car behind them. Now, in the car behind them was that guy, Lieutenant Colonel von Maritzi, who had had said you cannot cancel under any circumstances he has been wounded he has been hit in the head and blood is pouring out of his head sophie says oh it must have been a splinter or a bit of shrapnel or something that just nicked me on the back of my neck franz ferninand looks at the back of her neck. It was just a little scratch. And, you know, the smoke from the car behind. And the amazing thing about this is a bomb has been thrown at them. It has hit the car behind them out of six cars.
Starting point is 00:21:19 And Franz Ferdinand says, that fellow must have been mad. Let's carry on. It's a tremendous sans-foi. And this always amazes me throughout this whole story a bomb has been thrown at them and it's gone off and hit the car behind and one of the party has been injured and there was smoke and there was chaos and he just says well we'll carry on with the day that's not you know a lot of people i mean frankly tom would you and i if the rest is history tour if a bomb was thrown oh i'd be a gibbering wreck would we continue no i'd be an absolute gibbering wreck i mean i wouldn't have done it in the first place i'm not gonna lie if you heard that there was there was
Starting point is 00:21:53 possibility of bombings yeah i would have said that's the difference but then i lacked i lack a sense of duty right well anyway they continue on count von Harach does not get into the front. He stands on the kind of running board of the car to shield the Archduke if there are more assassins. So they continue. Now, there's somebody we have not mentioned at all who sees this happening or realizes that something has happened. And is that Gavrilo?
Starting point is 00:22:19 And that is Gavrilo Princip. So people may remember that we left him on the night before the assassination. He's gone to the grave of this guy who had attempted to assassinate the governor. He'd had five shots, missed all of them, and then shot himself. That's right. And he's a kind of great inspiration to Princip and to the other five assassins who are part of these cells that are ready to do the assassination.
Starting point is 00:22:44 And they had agreed, we'll meet at the pastry shop tomorrow at eight. We'll split up and we'll assassins who are part of these these cells that are yeah ready to do the assassination and they had agreed we'll meet at the pastry shop tomorrow eight we'll split up and we'll take positions along the street and this is exactly what they had done so gavrilo princip had been waiting there in position since nine o'clock he'd waited in the crowd he had his bomb in his pocket he had his capsule of cyanide he had his pistol just after 10 o'clock he had heard the crowd cheering he had heard the sound of the car engines he had seen in the distance the car advancing then he'd heard the bomb explosion like so many other people he runs towards the scene and actually what he sees is the guy who was the blabbermouth the guy he'd always doubted yeah so the guy who was sending um
Starting point is 00:23:23 inappropriate postcards into the uh austro-hungarian empire nedeliko chabrinovich he has thrown his bomb now the first two people the first two assassins totally bottled it muhammad mehmed bazich and vaso chabrinovich they did nothing and afterwards at the trial they said oh i uh the time wasn't quite right i actually didn't feel like you know they just flunked it i mean it's a big deal isn't it because basically you you may well be killing yourself yeah well you are but the plan is you will kill yourself chabrinovich did throw his bomb as we said it hit the back of the car exploded onto the car behind there are some accounts there are some um televised versions of which the archery
Starting point is 00:24:04 catches it and throws it it's kind of cricketer like a cricketer there's a brilliant christopher plumber film which is like a slip fielder kind of taking a catch or something this did not happen i think i think what happened is it bounced off but what had happened then was that chabrinovich took his cyanide well no he and he jumped over there so a twin attempt to commit suicide yes and they're both disastrous yes because actually when i read about this i thought i imagined the the drop being quite extensive into the river into the river but it's not it's it's not very far and the river is very shallow yeah the prospect of killing yourself by throwing yourself into the river is is minimal yeah but he does have his cyanide doesn't he and he bites on that yeah but it the power has faded and it just kind of gives him a sore throat yeah never put
Starting point is 00:24:49 your trust in serbian cyanide tom is the lesson of this podcast because the cyanide is degraded it just basically burns his throat incredibly badly but does not kill him okay so a bit more than a sore throat i'm being unfair he falls into this river but doesn't you know he's up to his kind of his knees or something then he's sort of wading and trying to get out loads of men pile drag him onto the bank a barber almost has to be restrained from shooting him you know it's just general chaos and whatnot and princip his initial reaction was i will go and kill him you know i stop him talking and then he think he gets there and he thinks that's mad actually you know there's a huge crowd i can't shoot him and then he looks for his fellow assassins and in the chaos they've vanished they've all scarpered they've all lost their nerve and he alone is
Starting point is 00:25:37 standing there he's got his bomb he's got his pistol and meanwhile of course in the distance the archduke has driven off towards city hall the archduke has said let's continue the visit so princip is just standing there he does not know what to do he thinks well it's all failed it's failed but maybe the only thing i can hope is that um maybe they'll come back the same way maybe they'll come back and he goes he crosses the road and he goes to the corner of a delicatessen run by a guy called Moritz Schiller. And there he just stands there at a loss, waiting, hoping against hope
Starting point is 00:26:11 that he will get another chance. And when we come back, we will find out if he does get that chance. But meanwhile, the Archduke and Sophie are heading off towards the City Hall. And Dominic, in the interval, I think that's where we should head. So we should leave our Viennese cafe and go to the City Hall
Starting point is 00:26:30 and see what happened there when the Archduke arrives. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. And together we host The Rest Is Entertainment. It's your weekly fix of entertainment news, reviews, splash of showbiz gossip. And on our Q&A, we pull back the curtain on entertainment and we tell you how it all works. We have just launched our Members Club.
Starting point is 00:26:50 If you want ad-free listening, bonus episodes and early access to live tickets, head to therestisentertainment.com. That's therestisentertainment.com. Hello, welcome back to The Rest is History. We are in Sarajevo, and Dominic, we've now for the first time come out on the streets. And on one side of us, we have the city hall of Sarajevo, where around 10.15 on the morning of the 28th of June 1914, the Archduke of Motocade arrived. It's described in the notes that you've written up as a massive pseudo-Moorish monstrosity.
Starting point is 00:27:31 And that is exactly what it is. It's an extraordinary building. So it's got the kind of the color scheme that you get in the court of a mosque. It's got lots of kind of lattice work. It's got a few kind of Corinthian pillars as well. It's a very odd building, but definitely kind of Austro- It's got a few kind of Corinthian pillars as well. It's a very odd building, but definitely kind of Austro-Hungarian. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely got that kind of vibe. But what's amazing is you look down on the right-hand side where we're sitting, back into
Starting point is 00:27:54 the bazaar, and you've got those two extraordinary domes of the mosques that Arthur Evans described as being a cause of wonder to peasants coming in from the Bosnian hills. And talking of Bosnian hills, I mean, you can see them right in front of us, the extent to which Sarajevo is at the bottom of a great bowl. And although we're not talking about the civil war in the 90s, I mean, it's kind of chilling to imagine guns up there and firing down. But we're looking at another tragedy today. And Dominic, that, of course, is the shooting that starts effectively the First World War. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:28:30 In the first half, we heard about a bomb attack on the procession of cars. The Archduke and his wife have survived the attack. But obviously, I mean, it creates enormous sense of panic, doesn't it? And they arrive at the town hall, which is part of the plan. But obviously the schedule is, you'd think, going to be rearranged. Or is it? And you'd think that the talks that are due to be given to the Archduke also are going to be slightly rewritten.
Starting point is 00:28:58 But again, are they? Very good questions, Tom. Just to give people a sense, Sarajevo is very small by the standards of european capitals so you know we have walked pretty much the route that franz ferdinand and sophie took the entire route would probably take you what half an hour 40 minutes maybe if you're walking quite slowly so as you say you know they've they've come up the road which we're looking at to the right. The motorcade has stopped. Outside the city hall,
Starting point is 00:29:28 so outside this extraordinary sort of multicoloured building, at the top of a sort of white marble staircase, there are all the bigwigs of the city. Well, it's a very multicultural building, isn't it? Kind of hints of the classical Victorian architecture and Moorish. Yeah. And I suppose there's a kind of quality of that in the dignitaries who are waiting to meet him
Starting point is 00:29:48 because you've got mullers in turbans, you've got bishops, you've got rabbis, you've got kind of town functionaries in sashes. Yes. Kind of melange. It is a melange. Franz Ferdinand and Sophie get out of the car. So you were saying, you know,
Starting point is 00:30:02 is the visit going to continue as planned? Apparently, yes. They've arrived where they're meant to be. Sophie get out of the car. So you were saying, you know, is the visit going to continue as planned? Apparently, yes. They've arrived where they're meant to be. They get out of the car. Now, the mayor, who was in the car ahead of them, Fehm Effendi Csircic, he's wearing this costume that is very much a blend of East and West. So he's wearing a fez, but also a kind of tailcoat.
Starting point is 00:30:21 Now, he has heard a bang from behind. He's aware something has gone wrong. He doesn't know what it is. But he does know he's got to deliver the welcome he's got to deliver the welcome speech he's obviously nervous so he steps forward he's described by christopher clark in the sleepwalkers as in a state of high agitation and perspiring heavily and he's too nervous to change his speech so So he says, Your Imperial and Royal Highness, our exalted Crown Prince, Your Serene Highness,
Starting point is 00:30:51 our Crown Prince's most esteemed wife, at this very happy moment, all our hearts, as you can see, are overflowing with happiness and gratitude. And the Archduke, Franz Ferdinand, who's always a hot-tempered man. He loses it. He says like,
Starting point is 00:31:02 What? I've just been attacked he says what's outrageous he says somebody's just thrown a bomb at us what are you wittering about like we're all happy i mean you can see why he's crossed tom if we were doing one of our rest is history live shows or tours or something and somebody threw a bomb at you and then i went on stage and said thank you for this lovely reception yeah i would be cross you'd be You'd be cross. I'd be upset, I think. So the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. But I love this moment because he's losing it.
Starting point is 00:31:32 Yes. He's threatening a diplomatic incident. And then Sophie calms him down. And it's a wonderful demonstration of the role that she has played in his life. Yeah, because she steps forward and whispers something in his ear. We don't know what it is. And he says, OK, very well, Mr. Mayor,
Starting point is 00:31:49 continue with your speech. And the mayor very nervously gets through the rest of his speech. It's expected that Franz Ferdinand will reply. And of course, he's been practicing his Serbian, hasn't he? He has indeed.
Starting point is 00:32:01 The text of his response was in the car behind somebody has has followed and hasn't quite yet arrived with the speech finally this bloke arrives the speech has got blood on it from the people wounded in the car which has to be wiped off and at first franz fernand seems very agitated at the sight of the speech once again sophie puts a finger on his arm you know calm down and he's like yeah fine he wipes the blood away and he actually is capable unlike the mayor of improvising he says i consider that this welcome that you've given me is an expression of joy that that terrible attempt on our lives has been foiled and everybody claps
Starting point is 00:32:42 and then comes the great moment where he delivers his Serbo-Croat peroration. Yes. And it's absolutely banger, isn't it? Oh, it's brilliant. Standing in this beautiful capital city, I assure you our Slav and Mohammedan citizens of our august emperor's continued interest
Starting point is 00:33:00 in your well-being and of my own enduring friendship. And everybody again claps and thinks, brilliant brilliant and i think everybody at this point is think is genuinely thinking do you know what he is kind of scary with his hot temper and his walrus and his enormous ambiance and i hope he doesn't mistake me for a pheasant but he and sophie have shown the most unbelievable song that their bomb has been thrown at them the people behind them have been injured and yet they are keeping it together and continuing the visit and now they continue with the rest of the plan so sophie goes upstairs tom in that building to our left so that's the town hall the city hall she goes upstairs and the wives of the muslim dignitaries are going to
Starting point is 00:33:46 meet her and they want to remove their veils you see they they don't want to do that in public they want to do it in private that's her role as the female representative of the empire exactly she goes upstairs and it is clear that the attack is weighing on her mind the accounts we have of her is that she keeps mentioning to them her children and their family. She says of a little girl, she says, oh, look at her. She looks, she's the same height as my Sophie back at home. And then she says, oh, I can't wait to see our children. We have actually never left them for so long on their own and very soon we'll be reunited and I can't wait for it. Now, meanwhile, Franz Ferdinand, sean of sophie is back to his old tricks barking at people making inappropriate sarcastic banter so he says to one of his aides did you hear the bloke who
Starting point is 00:34:34 threw that bomb tried to swallow cyanide what a fool he is doesn't he know that our criminal justice system is so lax they'll probably give him a medal and everybody kind of smiles weekly at this sort of daily express daily telegraph banter and then he says um maybe they'll have to give up lots of medals maybe when we drive back we'll have some more cougarin coming our way cougarin is a viennese dialect word that means little bullets maybe we'll have more and again lots of everyone again ha ha very good sir and then he actually turns to the governor oscar potiorek and he says well what do you think do you think people are going to shoot at me on the way back and potiorek says who is the guy who has said no security it's going to be fine potiorek says your highness i am sure this guy was an isolated lunatic
Starting point is 00:35:22 that said i can't be certain even the best security in the world, which I provided for you, cannot prevent more attacks. Maybe we should ditch the original plan. Now, the original plan was to go back down that street that we're looking at, Tom, going along the river, the Apple Quay, and to turn off to see the new museum, the first in the city that the Austrians had built. Because I have to say, once you've seen the streets that stretch to the right of this main road, you'd think, I mean, that is a death trap. It's an absolute tangle.
Starting point is 00:35:55 Yeah, the Tangler Valley is around there, exactly. The governor says, we'll go along the road, but we'll go straight back to the station. We won't turn off. We'll go along the Appalachee, keep going, and the station is at the end, and we can get the train. And Franz Ferdinand says, fine, we'll go straight back to the station we won't turn off go along the apple key keep going and the station is at the end and we can get the train and franz ferner says fine we'll do that the one thing i do want to do though the man who was injured in the car behind your adjutant
Starting point is 00:36:15 von merizzi i would really like to visit him in the hospital before we leave sarajevo the governor hesitates at that point like i'm not sure that's a good idea. And then Franz Ferdinand gets very cross, and he says, that man is my fellow officer. He is bleeding for me. You will have the goodness to understand that. You will have the further goodness to order a second car to take my wife
Starting point is 00:36:39 back to the hotel straight away. But Sophie's not having that. Sophie has come downstairs while he's been talking, and she hears him say that, she says no no way yeah i will come with you i am not going back to the hotel i'm not going to be separated i will stay by your side france fernand says fine so be it of course he's never going to argue with her we don't need the other car and this is the thing isn't it they're coming out from the relative protection of the city hall out into the sunlight into the open yeah street and i'm guessing they're kind of thinking is the description of the attacker as an isolated lunatic
Starting point is 00:37:18 correct or was it part of a consortium of assassins and if it was part of a consortium of assassins then this will be their chance. We'll be completely exposed. So it must have been an absolutely terrifying moment for them. And they come out onto the steps and there is no... There's just a crowd cheering them and clapping them. He takes her hand. There's a very famous photo of them coming out.
Starting point is 00:37:40 He takes her hand and helps her down the steps. The car, the same car, is sitting there waiting for them. The Archduke gets in the car. Franz Ferdinand is on the left-hand side, the river side, if you like. Sophia sits next to him on the right. Governor Potiorek is in the jump seat. Ominous sign, Tom. Count von Harrach stands on the running board again now of course the attack had come from the
Starting point is 00:38:07 side nearest the river count von harak stands on the running board on the side nearest the river i the left hand side of the car had he stood on the other side of the car this whole story might be very different but he's on the river side they set off they set off and they're going to go down this road in front of us down the apple key all the way out of the city outskirts the city they're going to visit the hospital and then they're going to go to the railway station and then home and there is another photo that is taken of them after they've left the city hall going down this main road approaching the moritz schiller cafe which is what i, about five minutes walk from here.
Starting point is 00:38:46 Yeah, I mean, if that. And it is there that the shot heard around the world will ring out. And I think that we should finish off the coffee we've been having as we sit outside the city hall and go to that very place.
Starting point is 00:39:01 Let's go. Right, so we've come to the Latinin bridge and dominic that i mean that took us less than five minutes so i'm guessing a car i mean no time at all they pull out of the city hall and in no time they are passing the moritz chiller cafe and delicatessen um it's now the museum but back then it would have been adorned with window stencils, adverts for wine and cigarettes and all the other stuff that you buy in an Austro-Hungarian Delicatessen. And it has German wording, doesn't it? And so that's made it a target for angry nationalists. That's right. Student activists. There was a big cutout on the
Starting point is 00:39:43 day of a champagne bottle, a Hungarian champagne. It was attached to the facade of the cafe, kind of in celebration. The car, as you said, Tom, it must have taken a minute, absolute maximum. I mean, no matter how slowly they're going. Yeah. They roll up the street. They're probably now the second car in the motorcade. Again, you'll hear different accounts.
Starting point is 00:40:06 Now, what's not clear, the instruction was definitely given. We're not going to turn off at this point. We're going to keep on going towards the edge of the city to the hospital and the railway station. But there must have been some communication breakdown because nobody has told the driver of the lead car. He, at this point, right by the delicatessen, goes to turn right on Latina Strasse.
Starting point is 00:40:29 And as he goes to turn right, he is going past not only the delicatessen, but Gavrilo Princip, who is standing outside. He has been waiting all this time. So this wrong turning that they are making they're making it past the one guy who is armed and ready to shoot exactly the first car turns right and that's got the mayor in it and the chief of police behind them governor potty oric sees it's turning right and he shouts out stop you're going the wrong way you're going the wrong way now there are different
Starting point is 00:41:04 accounts depending which book you read and to be honest with you i haven't really got to the bottom of this it's a rare thing where we confess total failure and powerlessness on the rest is history some accounts say the cars stop and reverse others say the cars actually have no reverse gear at all yes i've read that so they have to be pushed back. What is certain is that Franz Ferdinand's car has actually followed the first car, has turned to the right, has only just turned to the right, turned off the apple key, going down by what is now the museum. And you were saying how Count Harak was on the side. Nearest the river. Nearest the river. So he is now on the side away from where princip is standing
Starting point is 00:41:46 exactly so if you can picture the scene there is princip standing on the pavement then you have nothing between him and the car for just that split second where the car has stopped there is sophie on the right nearest to him and then there is the archduke franz ferdinand on the right, nearest to him, and then there is the Archduke Franz Ferdinand on the left. And in that split second, Princip realizes he is maybe too close or it's too much of a rush to throw the bomb. So he reaches into his pocket. He takes out that Browning semi-automatic pistol.
Starting point is 00:42:23 He levels it at the car and he fires two shots. Almost at once, the car begins to move. The car pulls away. Princip can't see what has happened. As it's moving, the Archduke and Sophie are still sitting upright in the back of the car. He puts the pistol to his own head. It's part of the plan to kill himself. The crowd are on him, and someone grabs the pistol from his hand. And they also pull the cyanide capsule out, don't they?
Starting point is 00:42:53 They do. He puts it into his mouth, but then a policeman hits him. The crowd are grabbing at him. He is being beaten up by the crowd, and he can't finish the job and take his own life. And then he's dragged away. And the photo that is right now, as we said in the very first episode,
Starting point is 00:43:08 the photo that is on the wall just there facing us of a man being dragged away, that is not Gavrilo Princip. Lots of people in the chaos are being dragged away because the police don't know what is going on. And in the chaos, Princip can't see what happened after he's shot, except that his last glimpse would presumably have been
Starting point is 00:43:24 that the Archduke and his wife are both sitting upright. And so therefore he must have thought that he his last glimpse would presumably have been that the arch duke and his wife are both sitting upright and so therefore he must have thought that he had missed or he he'd failed yeah and this is what camp potty aura also thinks to begin with isn't it as they drive away that everything's okay that they're they're all right but probably the first four or five seconds after they've turned off it seems like everything is okay and then then the account that we have from which all other accounts derive so this is by um harak who's standing on the right and he writes as the car quickly reversed a thin stream of blood spurted from his highness's mouth onto
Starting point is 00:43:57 my right cheek as i was pulling out my handkerchief to wipe the blood away from his mouth the duchess cried out to him for god's sake what has happened to you and at that she slid off the seat and lay on the floor of the car with her face between his knees so i'll tell you what's so moving about that she has actually been hit in the abdomen herself but what she says is not i've been hit but what's happened to you yeah i find that really moving actually well and likewise the archduke similarly when he sees her lying at his feet he says so full so full sophie sophie don't die stay alive for our children but she's do you think already dead by this point i mean she dies yeah very quickly i think she's probably already dead or dying when the archduke says that incredibly
Starting point is 00:44:45 moving line actually yeah and so continuing harak's account at that i seized the archduke by the collar of his uniform to stop his head dropping forward and asked him if he was in great pain he answered me quite distinctly it is nothing his face began to twist somewhat but he went on repeating six or seven times ever more faintly as he gradually lost consciousness it's nothing it's nothing it's nothing but it is something because he has been hit in the neck yeah and it severed his jugular vein tom i mean we were talking about this the other day whether or not you know did he really say this he has been brought up in that world of total duty and not giving anything away you know the rigid world of the hapsburg court i absolutely believe
Starting point is 00:45:34 that he would say it is nothing even if he's been hit and it's the most agonizing pain well i think his training is to deny any you of weakness, of human veeling. But against that, you also have the sentiment that husband and wife delivers to each other, which I guess, by the rigid standards of the Habsburg court, is a sign of weakness. But I mean, it has the absolute ring of truth, doesn't it? That they would each think about the other. Yeah. That line, stay alive for our
Starting point is 00:46:05 children i mean it's it's so moving actually yeah so the car now turns off so that's a tram going past memorial to the uh introduction of it by the hapsburgs yeah the car turns off comes across the river it's the governor's, the Konak. People immediately lift the two bodies out of the car. Their blood is all over the seat. Franz Ferdinand's valet, Count Morsi, was behind in the car. He has run all the way across the river, across the bridge to the governor's mansion to catch up with him. He cuts his uniform open because the uniform is so tight basically been sewn in exactly and there's blood pouring out of the uniform they put him on a bed inside the governor's mansion and mostly the valet says do you have any message do you have anything to tell your children but it's
Starting point is 00:46:57 too late franz ferdinand a moment later he breathes his last. He dies. And pretty much at the moment that he is pronounced dead, the bells are ringing 11 o'clock. So the whole business has taken less than two hours from the moment they got on the train to the moment of his death. It's been less than two hours. They lie out the bodies in the banqueting hall of the governor's mansion,
Starting point is 00:47:22 and they start to gather flowers. Frederick Mortonon in his book thunder at twilight says franz ferdinand and sophie died as they had lived in unison as we will see there is a there is a twist to that story and of course the other thing is they'd left three children whom no historian ever mentions actually their story i mean just to look ahead is remarkable yeah so next week we will get into what this means for europe because of course the question really with which we began this series was what was it about this assassination that made it different you know there have been lots of
Starting point is 00:47:56 murders of royal figures uh their wives as well but something about this is different and next week we will be exploring what it is that's different but before we do that um and ending today's episode and this um period that we've been uh in sarajevo recording these past four episodes um should we just look and see you know what happens to the various participants in this story both princip but also what happens to the various participants in this story, both Princip, but also what happens to the bodies of Franz Ferdinand and Sophie, because actually there is one final awful twist. There is indeed. So let's start with Princip. Princip, he did bite on the cyanide capsule,
Starting point is 00:48:35 but the cyanide, as we know, was degraded and useless. He was beaten and kicked and dragged off to prison. He's there by about 11 o'clock. He's covered in blood. He's bruised. He's being sick vomiting from the from the poison degraded as it is his associates were rounded up pretty quickly only
Starting point is 00:48:51 one of them got away the bosnian muslim Mehmet Basic he escaped into Montenegro the rest of them are rounded up within hours or days they all confessed quite quickly but they all told slightly different stories probably reflecting their different understandings yeah of the of the plot the one thing that princip always said to the austro-hungarian investigators was that he felt bad about sophie well because he says doesn't he that that he had paused fleetingly when he saw that she was in the car he said he had meant to shoot franz ferdant and Potti Urek and he didn't mean to shoot her. Of course, not much consolation. The police in total rounded up 25
Starting point is 00:49:30 people. When the trial opened, it was here in Sarajevo on the 12th of October. By which time the world was at war. Europe was in flames. Princip at the trial never recanted, never, you know, he had obviously been caught red-handed. He was very upfront about his political motives. He explained precisely why he had wanted to kill Franz Ferdinand, because he was a threat to the ambition of a Serb-dominated Yugoslavia. He mentioned his reform plans and so on. On the 28th of October, Princip was found guilty of murder and high treason. But Princip was 19 years old.
Starting point is 00:50:03 He had not yet turned 20. And there are kind of confusions, aren't there, with the various dating systems. And so the prosecution tried to prove that actually he's 20, but he isn't. So he can't be sentenced to death. And so they sentenced him instead to 20 years in prison under pretty brutal conditions. So he's to be denied food one day each month. And on the anniversary of his crime, he's to be put into a cell without any light. Yeah. He has to wear shackles all the time. Yeah. And I think worse of all for him, because he's such a bookish boy. Yeah. He's denied anything to read. Yeah. He's not actually a boy, though, is he, at this point? We always... I mean, I've said it many times.
Starting point is 00:50:46 The boy's arrived in Sarajevo. He turns 20 shortly after the assassination. He is a bad man, Tom. That's what he is. I don't feel sorry for him being denied anything to read. He had shot two people in cold blood. He died of tuberculosis in Theresienstadt Prison. Which will become a...
Starting point is 00:51:04 Later a concentration camp. He died in tuberculosis in Theresienstadt prison. So which will become a... Later a concentration camp. He died in April 1918. It is said that on the wall of his cell, he had written, our ghosts will walk through Vienna and roam through the palace, frightening the lords. It's a great line.
Starting point is 00:51:19 I actually, I'm skeptical. Where does that come from? So you often see it. I think it was written in accounts, when those accounts were compiled under Yugoslavia after the Second World War, 1960s, when people started to compile kind of folk tales about Princip that turned him into a hero of Yugoslav nationalism.
Starting point is 00:51:38 Very like the murderer of the Ottoman Sultan at Kosovo. Right, like Miloš Ovelic. Part of the continuum. Exactly, exactly. So that's what happened to him. Nothing good. He died before the end of the First Sultan at Kosovo. Right, like Miloš Jović. Part of the continuum. Exactly, exactly. So that's what happened to him. Nothing good. He died before the end of the First World War. Franz Ferdinand and Sophie,
Starting point is 00:51:51 their bodies were taken by train to the coast and then on that ship that the guy had suggested they take up to Trieste and then by train to Vienna. They arrived there on the 2nd of July, the day after their wedding anniversary. Nobody from the dynasty was there to meet the funeral train, except for one person who we've actually talked about before on our podcast. This was the Archduke Karl, who would now become the
Starting point is 00:52:16 new crown prince and would in due course succeed Franz Joseph. So Karl, who's that, we talked about him with Eduard Habsburg. He's a very serious, dutiful, pious young man. And he is there to meet his relative's body. And so he's Franz Ferdinand's cousin, right? He is indeed. Franz Joseph, the emperor, was shocked by the assassination, but he wasn't sad. His daughter Valerie recorded in her diary, I found Papa amazingly fresh. He was shocked when he spoke of the children he had tears in his eyes but he wasn't personally stricken and when she said oh
Starting point is 00:52:50 i think carl will do very well as the new heir he said very solemnly and emphatically for me it is a great worry less right in other words thank god that guy's out the equation yeah the funeral is unbelievable they lay in state for four hours. Thousands of people turned up in Vienna, but at midday sharp, the doors were shut and they were turned away. The two coffins were side by side, but in death as in life, Sophie was treated as a second-class citizen. Her coffin was placed 20 inches lower
Starting point is 00:53:19 than Franz Ferdinand's. Because she is being buried as a lady in waiting. As a lady, yeah. Franz Ferdinand on his coffin,, had the Archduke of Crown. It had helmets, swords, all of his medals. Hers, just a pair of gloves and a fan. The marker of her status. The marker of her status.
Starting point is 00:53:35 The emperor didn't send a wreath. No, Habsburg sent a wreath. I mean, President Wilson of America sent a wreath. Loads of ordinary people sent wreaths. No one from the dynasty sent a wreath. The funeral takes place at four o'clock that day. The children were not allowed. The reason was because they were more ganatic. They had been disbarred. They are not Habsburgs. It's Habsburgs only. So the children are not allowed at the funeral. The Kaiser, Franz Ferdinand's great
Starting point is 00:54:01 friend. So he's coming out of this very well so far. He really wanted to come. And he was told, as were all other royals and dignitaries, do not come. They were given two reasons. One, security is too tight, security problems. But two, the emperor's health is not great. Actually, I think the real reason is that the Austrians are already debating what to do.
Starting point is 00:54:27 And they don't want other bigwigs there to muddy the waters while they get there. Do you think there's ever been a British podcast series or indeed any kind of series on the outbreak of the First World War from which the Kaiser so far has come out so well? I think it's unlikely. Yeah, I think it's very unlikely. The funeral service took less than 15 minutes they rattled through it the bodies were then locked away and the bodies were then moved out of vienna by train in the dead of night uh so basically to make sure there were no crowds and all of this they were taken across the daniel but midnight to franz ferdinand's family seat archstetten which is um in the vacau and so the whole reason for this is that in death as in life court protocol and the demands of
Starting point is 00:55:11 hierarchy must prevail exactly there's no relenting it's staggering actually how even in this they will not give franz ferdinand sophie an inch it puts the refusal to lower the flag over Buckingham Palace half-mast when Diana died into perspective, as to be said. Now, there's a twist. They were buried at Archstetten, and they're still there. Sophie, because of her status, the children, as we said, are not Habsburgs. They are Hohenbergs. And in 1918 and 1919, when the empire collapsed and Austria became a republic, there was a Habsburg confiscation law. The Habsburgs were kicked out and their property was taken. The very rules that had hidebound their parents in life, they benefited from at this point. Their property was not confiscated and they were exempt from the law so uniquely archdetton castle is still in the family
Starting point is 00:56:07 so i looked this up tom it belongs to princess anita of hohenberg who is the great granddaughter of franz fernand and sophie the tombs are still there today and you can go and visit that castle right now if you wanted to and the two boys i mean they grow up in austria through the 20s into the 30s and we've already mentioned therese and stat which becomes a concentration camp yeah and after the they actually get put in a concentration camp don't they they go to dachau i think one of them's there for six months one of them's for a bit longer than a year and they're put to cleaning toilets which obviously causes much hilarity to their guards. But they come out of it very well.
Starting point is 00:56:50 They're much liked. Yeah, they were regarded as good chaps by the other prisoners. And they survive it. They do indeed. They're released. They survived the war. And I think they die in the 50s, don't they? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:56:59 So that is the end of the Franz Ferdinand and Sophie story. Great friends of the rest of history, I think it's fair to say, Tom. I think so. I'm surprised. I mean, I always had him down as a baddie. Gavrilo Princip, on the other hand, not a man who I would welcome meeting in the afterlife. He's very much not a Sandbrook man. Not a Sandbrook man at all.
Starting point is 00:57:15 It has to be said. But let's leave them in their unequal coffins. Because, Dominic, as they're being laid to rest, I think it is fair to say that the storm clouds of war are indeed gathering. They are. And our next episodes, we will be looking to explore this great issue. How is it that this assassination leads to such catastrophic consequences? And that will be the story we will be teasing out in our next series.
Starting point is 00:57:45 Okay. So on that bombshell, Auf Wieder will be teasing out in our next series. Okay. So on that bombshell, Auf Wiedersehen everybody and Dove Virginia. Goodbye. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. And together we host The Rest Is Entertainment. It's your weekly fix of entertainment news, reviews, splash of showbiz gossip and on our Q&A we pull back the curtain on entertainment and we tell you how it all works. We have just launched our Members Club. If you want ad-free listening, bonus episodes and early access to live tickets,
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