The Rewatchables - ‘A League of Their Own’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin try to lay off the high ones as they revisit the 1992 classic ‘A League of Their Own’, starring Geena Davis, Tom Hanks, and Madonna. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Save at Whole Foods Market. The rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer podcast network where you can find the ringerverse with Mallory Rubin and a cast of others. You can hear Mallor and the Ringer NFL show when football comes back this fall. You can hear me on the Bill Simmons podcast. You know what you can't hear crying?

Because there's no crying in baseball. A league of their own is next. This summer, Tom Hanks is managing the Rockford beaches. Are you crying? There's no crying. In baseball? Or are they managing him? Let's get something started.

Oh, now, hey, on the field. Tom Hanks. Gina Davis. Madonna. A league of their own. Directed by Penny Marshall, rated PG. Hey, who's the manager? I am.

Special sneak preview Saturday at Select Theater. All right, Mallory, it's time. I'm going to start here. This movie is going to be 30 years old. I think beginning of June, better baseball movie or better sister movie? You love baseball. Oh, wow. And you have a sister, I think.

That's true. I do. I do. Better baseball movie, I think. But why pick? You know, it's an old why not both. I mean, not mutually exclusive. Part of the enduring charm and legacy of a league of their own, a wonderful movie is that it's so many things at once.

as all of the best sports movies are. They're not just about the pursuit of some sort of sporting achievement, right? It's all of the other relationships and pursuits and hopes and dreams and goals and dashed dreams that mesh together to form this specific brew. And all of that is present here. You know what's amazing to me about this movie? Now, I've aged with it. I'm 30 years older than it was when I saw it.

I think I saw it right after college. As I get older, I like this movie. movie more. And I don't know why that is. I think some of the sentimental stuff, especially like starting with everybody now and Dotty now and it's like, let's go. And now all of a sudden we're going back to the 40s and then we end. And it's like, oh, now they're in the Hall of Fame. I think I was just predisposed to thinking stuff like that was corny. But now some of that stuff really hits me. Like, Telegram guy coming in, I didn't really care about Telegram guy when I was 20. Now I'm like, oh my God, can you imagine

telegram guys showing up? So I think this movie has aged in a lot of ways like a fine line. It also has, you know, catches Hank's in 92 right before he goes on one of the legendary, probably the greatest run of movie starting with this movie

that anyone's ever been on. It might even be number one. It is way, way ahead of its time and this whole woman's sports kind of boom, rebirth, whatever you want to call it, that's happened this century. It catches Madonna

at a really fun point of her career. Penny Marshall coming off big and then this movie, this is about as good as it gets for her. But just in general, there's a lot going on that as this movie gets older, it's just fun to go back to the world.

And the best thing about it, which happens with some sports movies, it's timeless because we're in the 40s. There's no way, like blue chips I watch now, and it's like, oh, they never do this now or that feels really 94 or whatever. This is like, we're in World War II. Like, this is it.

This is what it was like, back then. It's never going to change. And there's a timeless as this movie will be passed on for generations. I completely agree. I have to say it's all right there in the premise of

rewatchables, right? Movies that are fun to rewatch. I understand the concept of the podcast. It's always fun to rewatch a movie for rewatchables. Always. This is, I was shocked by how quickly this shot up the

list of like most truly fun times I've had rewatching a movie for rewatchable. I've always loved the movie. It had been a while since I'd seen it. Maybe that's part of it. But I had a similar experience to what you're describing where I was really floored by how perfectly preserved it feels as this like lasting and eternal document, something that I will never tire of rewatching myself, but also like we'll look forward to sharing with future generations of the, the Rubin.

Levine Klan, should there be any? And it's just... Source subject. And it's just, as you said, like, I think it's a really key point. Because it came out July 1st, 1992, and is looking backwards so far into the history

of baseball, of American life, the things that in other films would feel would be like prime pickings for what's age the worst are embedded into the commentary of the film itself, right? And so that really helps.

Also, just the cast is so sublime, and the performances are amazing. And one of the things I'm most excited, I will just tease for you, one of the things I'm most excited to hear from you about today, Bill Simmons, is the quality of the play inside of the movie, because I know that this is a passion point of yours across sports films, assessing the actual athletic achievement on display. Now, is it perfect moment to moment? Seen to see? No, but I think it's shockingly high.

across the board. And the fact that they largely cast with that in mind, needing people to actually be able to play baseball really helps in terms of thinking about why the film holds up so well. I mean, of course,

most of it is about the story and the thematic resonance, the humor, the quotable moments. But the fact that the baseball scenes are convincing is a big part of it. Well, and I don't want to spoil it now, but when we're in casting what ifs, we'll talk about how lucky they got

with the Gina Davis piece of this. because she is completely authentic. I'm with you. If you're just talking, if you're grading this on the, how realistic did the sports scenes seem compared to real sports scenes? This is really high.

Like, even for love of the game, which I think has some really good baseball stuff, and that's seven, eight years later, we did this for the rewatchables 99 pod. Like, John C. Riley, they got to cut around him. Like, he's just not a baseball player

and they're able to cheat it and they're able to use a double for some of the catching scenes. but there's no cheating around anyone in this movie, except Madonna. I think they were really careful with what they did with Madonna. But other than that,

I think everybody, you know, everybody's believable. Rosie looks like she played like in college. Like she was about as realistic as, Lori Patty's really good. Gina's really good. One of the things that struck me watching this again was just how absolutely gorgeous

and charismatic and unbelievable Gina Davis was. And you think, like, why wasn't this one of the five biggest actresses we've had of the last 30 years? Did Nicole kid been market corrector? What did people not seeing her? Like, we saw it in Thelma Louise. She's in Fletch, which we did on the rewatchables, but she has a bit part instead of the main

part. Long Kiss Goodnight, I think, was supposed to be her big action one that made her the main. And it didn't do as well as people thought. But there's this whole, because she was tall. She's, like, physical. And there was, like, this angel. Lena Jolie-S type of thing that I think she had that I just don't know if her career was as big as it should have been.

In this movie, I think, is one of the legacies. She's just fucking awesome in this movie. She's so charismatic. She's so in control. You have to believe the whole time that she is the best player. She knows it. She's quiet. She's the big sister.

She's really in love with her husband, which you just totally believe. Like the moment he shows back up, she's like, I'm out. I'm out of all this. I love this guy. everything about her is just perfect. I think it's an amazing performance. Yeah, she's incredible. It won't shock you to hear.

I had the same takeaway about how unbelievably stunning she has. Actually paused the movie mere moments into her first appearance to chat about it with Adam with my husband for a minute. I was just like, she is one of the most beautiful people. She really is. She really is. It's striking. I don't know if it's something about like rewatching the movie on, you know, a 75-inch 4K TV or

something. She's just absolutely resplendent. I don't get it. And I think there's this, who knows? I'm sure if we dove through her IMDB trivia section, I'm sure there's a couple parts maybe she didn't get or whatever. Maybe she didn't want it. But that one jumped out to me. And then catching Hanks in this really fun performance, this age of his career where he's a little young to be playing the guy that he's playing, but that's fine. He's about to rip off Philadelphia of Forrest Kump, saving Private Ryan, two iconic rom-coms, Apollo 13. It's all ahead of them. And you can see it because this is like, all right, he's just the token drunk guy who's

not going to become as drunk by the end of the movie. It's not like it's the most complicated part. But he crushes it. And it's so much fun to hang out with this guy who's basically a drunk asshole. Yeah, I mean, as you said, it's one of the greatest runs of all time. I think that the point about him seeming a little young to play Jimmy Duggan is interesting. And I, in the, you know, half-ass internet. research stretch of it. Like, that definitely comes up a lot that he actually thought that too.

But ultimately, it really works because part of what you really have to believe, especially for like the emotional payoff of Jimmy trying to convince Dottie to stay, you know, and he can't, he can't believe in that moment that she's leaving, the way that not just the pursuit of something, but regret kind of shapes these characters' lives. And it's like a pretty joyful, cheerful, light and breezy movie. But part of what makes it so lasting is that, there are those moments of real, like, thematic heft and oomph. And one of them is that Jimmy's team where he's talking about how he lost those five years. And, like, there's nothing he wouldn't give to just get one day back.

And so that's one of the moments where I think that his, him being a little younger actually really, like, helps cement his arc because you really have to believe that, like, he blew it at the end. And yes, he's still got the 487 home runs and the 58 homer season that he's got the, the poster for in Cooperstown, right? but he didn't actually finish his career the way that he should have with the drinking and the knees and he's got no cartilage in his knees. So I think that that ultimately just felt like exactly the right age. And there's also all of the like Jimmy, Doddy, will they won't they?

I think what you said about Doddy and her husband, Bob, is right. You never really doubt that she loves this guy and can't wait for him to get back and is very worried and wants to spend her life with with him. and that's that's completely fine right but jean davis and tom hanks have such unbelievable chemistry that when they're in these scenes together you and i feel like this is not just my personal response watching the movie i feel like this is pretty universal or at least widely shared and in fact there's a deleted scene of them kissing and it opens with shocking i did not know that until this rewatch yeah that fucks up the whole movie they can't have I've seen that, especially in the 40s.

No, they can't act on that. That would have been such a mistake. I'm glad they cut that. Yeah, I had never seen that before this rewatch until just like this week. And you don't need it in the movie. It would have changed the movie. You're right. But because you just feel this kind of pull, this magnetism toward each other.

And you can interpret that in any number of ways, right? But it's just so compelling when, you know, the scene on the on the bus where they're sharing a seat talking about life and regret, all of it. It's just, it's perfect. They're magnetic together. Well, you know why I believe it because she's one of the most beautiful people who's been in a movie the last 30 years. It's like, of course he's going to be enchanted with her. How can you not?

You're sitting on a bus next to her. You're just going to be in love. Explain as somebody who has loved baseball your entire life. Not a massive female major league baseball fan demo. It exists. I wouldn't say it's as big as the male demo. But then this movie pops up and then it's in most of your life. do you have your one movie with women playing baseball and the whole thing?

But what did that mean to you when you were a kid and what does it mean now? So it's a good question. I anticipated that you might ask this and I was trying to think about like when I first saw this movie and what kind of impact it had on me. And I have to be honest, I can't really remember. I remember how I felt about it, but I can't remember exactly when I saw it for the first time. Like normally I have a pretty precise memory of when I saw Kramer versus Kramer for the first time. I can tell everything about the weekend that I watched Boulder on like six times in a row the first time I saw it.

I don't remember how old I was when I saw this. I don't remember if my mom or dad showed us me. I have like a vague memory of maybe watching it at school, but that might be like apocryful inside of my own reflection on my life. I honestly don't know. Well, you were pretty young when it came out. So at some point it's just probably present in your life and you don't remember when you saw it. Something that I, yes, definitely caught up on later. I was always very fond of it.

Again, I think the part of the reason that, like, it works so well and it's so lasting and just stays with us is like, it's just a great baseball movie. It's a great sports movie. It's a great movie about friendship. It's a great movie about family. And I think it has what all great sports movies have, which is like this, and baseball movies in particular, I love a baseball movie, as you know, like, that feel for kind of the, like, religious quality of the game, the majesty of baseball, the way that the stitches get their, get their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the. sewing needle if the stitches gets its hooks in you, right? Like the indelible characters, the hero's journey, the rival slash villain, the obstacles to overcome, the heartbreak, all of it.

And when I was a kid to get back to your question, what I can, what I do remember quite clearly is that I didn't want to play softball. I wanted to play baseball. And that I say that with like just nothing but sincere respect for everyone who loves playing softball. That's like, I'm not throwing shade. It's just personally as a kid, I had fallen so deeply in love with baseball. The Orioles and learning about Oriole history was such a huge part of my relationship with my dad.

We spent so much time watching games together. We spent so much time with him teaching me about baseball history. You know, when I graduated high school, among the gifts that he got me was a giant tomb of Shakespeare and Ken Burns' baseball documentary, right? Wow. Which I think sums up probably quite a lot. And I wanted to just go play baseball. And so seeing the women in this movie, which is, of course, I don't know if we've said this yet,

But based on real life, right? And based on an actual league, the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League is a real league. And seeing a documentary about the league actually is part of what inspired based on all the reports and articles you can read about the film and Doddy Collins' career in particular, part of what inspired Penny Marshall want to make this. And so it was just so cool. I was like, man, I wish I could do that. How amazing is that? right? And I never really felt like I had to like measure it against, you know, my love for Bull Durham. It always just felt totally of a piece with Bull Durham and Field of Dreams and the

natural and, you know, later on in the baseball canon, you could add like Moneyball and others to the pantheon of great baseball films. It just feels inextricable from from assessing the most meaningful baseball movies we've ever seen. It's a, it's a top tier sports film. In the sports movie, the eras of sports movies, where it basically starts, I've done this before, but I'll just do it again quickly, like that 74 rollerball, longest yard, and then we go through to Rocky, and then it's just like all these different Rocky type of movies for the next 10 years. Then we move into the late 80s, and it's like the evolution of, all right, we've done all these different versions of the underdog, the underdog team, the underdog player, we've done every sport, we've done different variations

of each sport. Now let's get a little smarter. Let's dive. into let's get a little characters, we'll get better actors. Bull Durham leads the way. Wetman can't jump. This movie. I think Blue Chips is in there, but, and some movies fail. Like the program tried. I love the program, but it's not a great movie, you know, all the way through to when we hit Jerry McGuire, 96, which really puts all this stuff together, I think probably in the best possible way, just in terms of like kind of the ceiling of the movie, the stars, the people who made it, all that stuff. This is right in the middle of it. And I think it's one of the most important ones. It's like this is the 2.0 sports movie. And really one of the only ones with lead females and lead

female athletes. And there's a really good one from, man, like 82, I think. It's called Personal Best. It's with Merrill Hemingway. She's an Olympic high jumper. And she ends up having an affair. I mean, this movie would be canceled now, but she has an affair with her car. coach. Robert Towne wrote and directed it. She's in this love triangle with another athlete on the team and her coach. But I'm selling it wrong. It's really good. It's a really good movie. But that was the kind of movie they started making in a much better way, I think, in the late 80s. And more of a big market way, too, because a league of their own did well. It was like, I wouldn't do in the research. I'm always like, I wonder how this one did. You go on like box office

Mojo, at a $40 million budget, made $132 million. It was one of seven movies in 1992 that made domestically over $100 million. This movie was a huge success. It really mattered. And I think for Hanks, it was a huge comeback movie for him because he had had a couple whiffs, you know, and I think he had lost a little momentum. So it was directed by Penny Marshall. Screenplay was written by Lowell, Bob Blue Mandel, Chris Ryan's guys. He loves their census story.

and they were off and that was it. There's really like there's no drama, conflict, anything. This was just a really well done, well cast, well acted, well directed movie that did really well and 30 years later lives on. Agreed. Let's go to the categories. We'll go to the categories. We'll take quick break. Go to the categories.

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Most rewatchable scene. I can't wait for this. Loaded field. Man. Stacked lineup. The first two doughty kit scenes are, really good, just establishing the sisters and the relationship.

It's a little too country bumpkin not to pick nits right away, but it's you're wondering like, are they really this remote? I guess 1940s, we can't judge. But just in general, it's in that dynamic of them. And immediately you understand, like, oh, here's the bright shining star. Here's the one who's the little spunky kid is in the shadow. And we're off. That last pitch was right down the middle.

If I just wanted that, I'd be the big hero. She got me so crazy. All I said was lay off the high ones. Good thing your sister bailed you out, Kit. Yeah, yeah. Kit, why don't you get your sister to teach you how to hit? Kid, why can't you be beautiful like that sister? Yours dog.

What idiot said that. No one. Yeah, and I think part of what makes that whole, like, Oregon recruitment, Ernie's Oregon recruitment sequence so memorable is that it's not just the Doddy Kit dynamic. You have this injection. of Ernie's caustic approach, right? It's setting the tone for the time. Yeah. And especially because, and I don't know, like,

I just think about this as the beginning of the movie. I always forget how the movie actually opens. And it's like, oh, yeah, right, of course. We've got to watch the youngsters double dribble in the driveway first. Yeah. And, boy, got some notes on that, man. Yeah. This is a movie.

about women, but the patriarchy is very real, right? You've got to establish that from the jump, and Ernie's character does that just so, so, so effectively. Like, you can not only play ball, but you're kind of a dolly, and that's what we're looking for. Like, you've got to have that right there at the start. Look, your country needs you, and you can not only play ball, but you're kind of a dolly.

That's what we're looking for. Oh, now I did it. Listen, Mr. I'm a married woman. My husband's overseas. Oh, relax. I'm talking looking. No touch. She just that we want girls

We're easy on the eye Well, I'll go I'm ready, I'm ready right now I gotta sign something I don't want you I want her The one who hit the ball You can climb back under the cow

And that's meshed in With the setting of the cow Malking and everything And the contrast of what that dairy farm life is And against the promise Of the $75 a week But the kit Dottie dynamically You said it's just so effectively

foreshadows Everything that's going to calm When Ernie says like I don't want you. I want her and this insecurity the kit is going to carry throughout the entire movie. The guy in the crowd, like, booing her. Good thing your sister bailed you out. But even just the specific foreshadowing of, like, you know, don't lay off the high fastball, which is, of course, she can't, right?

And then the walk home, like, you can't even let me walk faster than you. Like, the way that Kit's resentment has manifested is just actually, like, kind of shocking to watch when you return to these scenes. So it's a, it's a really incredible stretch. that's why I think it's a sister movie as much as a baseball movie because as I've said this before but I think the relationship between sisters is not tapped into enough in movies and TV shows there's even been TV shows called sisters but you know there's rivalry stuff there's history there's skeletons there's all kinds of things you can go into but fundamentally somebody's in the driver's seat and somebody's not and the one who's not in the driver's seat resents the other

one and it's just there's just but everyone's trying you know ultimately they're going to be loyal to each other over any other human being. But then there's all this baggage that comes with it, too. And you could feel it just in those two scenes. It's like, oh, these guys, they have some shit to work out. And that's it. That's where we do the next two hours. Next one is the tryouts.

We get to meet Rosie O'Donnell. We get to meet Madonna. What are you looking at? Yeah, what are you looking at? Nothing? Right? All these girls are going to be in the league? You wish.

You do wish. They're going to have 14, 16 girls to a team. That's right. 64 girls. Yeah, what are you a genius? You know, they got over 100 girls here, so some of you are going to have to go home. Yeah, sorry about that. Come on, Doris.

What do you mean some of us? I just want to say, not to step on what stage is the best, but it was a really big deal that Madonna was in this movie. Yeah. And it's funny because there's some casting what ifs that were as other people did not think it was a big deal. Yeah. But Madonna was one of the biggest things. as we have. The only way I could compare it to is if you made a baseball movie now and Taylor Swift was the center fielder. I really think that's a fair analogy. She was that famous and that

important. And the fact that she was in this with black hair and chewing gum and playing all the way May was like a big part. So we get to meet her. We get a montage. You know, I love sports movie montage. It's a tryout montage. Really good montage. Really like everybody looks completely legitimate and Penny Marshall really cared about that. All leading to one of my favorite moments, the girl staring at the lineup to see if she made one of the teams being unable to read and then somebody realizing it, walking over and saying, can you read? Really tugs at the heart there for a minute.

It's a little emotional. It is. And it's like, oh, I know what's going to happen here. We're going to teach this girl how to read on the bus. It's got to happen. Oh, man. And what a way to teach her to read, man. man.

Just a lot of milky white breasts in everybody's future. Yeah. That seems really good. The tri-out seat is, you know what else I'd love about the montage? It's a great snapshot of the, and the costume design across the film is incredible. But the May jersey,

this like punk rock chic, and then you see all of the different baseball uniforms. Like, I've got my thoughts, I know again, historically accurate on the actual like skirt uniforms that they ultimately played in. But the outfits, they all were to tryouts.

Like the Oregon jerseys that Dottie and Kit bring with them and wear, it's like people will pay a pretty penny for a romper like that on Madewell.com right now, you know? It just looks great. And is this where we talk for just a moment or maybe it's better save for later, but about David Stratherin as Ira? Because obviously he's the one who comes in and tells them that they have to wear the skirts and everything, but he's, first of all, I love him, personal favorite. What a run for him. He's coming up later in Apex Mountain.

Oh, my God. Incredible stretch from him. And the tryout scene is so crucial because it establishes that like all of these characters have some sort of awakening, right? And he's just there saying to them like all of these outmoded norms that everyone's going to have to abide by. But he's going to be the one advocating for the existence of the league by the end. And so you get all these great little establishments of all of the. the respective journeys. I also just thought he looked incredible. I was going to do this later in Apex Mountain, but Apex Mountain for a guy's name Ira? Or would you go somebody else? Oh, boy.

Is there been a better Ira in a movie? I'm incredibly fond of Aira from billions. I was going to throw when Harry met Sally the next thing you know, you're singing, Siri of the fringe on top in front of Ira. It's a great IRA though. I also love David Strait Tharn. Eight Men Out, he's the pitcher, the conflicted pitcher. He's in the firm, which he absolutely crushes as Cruz's brother. He's got a nice friend. He was originally that guy and then became not of that guy. Next rewatchable, it's short, but the newsreel of the team.

Yeah. Showing each one, kind of showing the sexism at the time, but we get to meet all the players. It's really fun. And then ending with Marla from 75 feet away. Oh, my God. What a player! So mean, but so, it's just incredible. And the whole payoff of that after like the Hooch recruitment and Bernie, like when she looks up for the first time, I mean.

Oh, hooch. What an icon. Then there's no crying in baseball scene. Are you crying? Are you crying? There's no crying. There's no crying in baseball. Why don't you leave her alone, Jimmy?

Oh, you zip it, Doris. Rogers Hornsby was my manager. And he called me a talking. pile of pig shit. And that was when my parents drove all the way down from Michigan to see me play the game. And did I cry? No, no. And you know why? No. Because there's no crying in baseball. There's no crying in baseball. No crying. So how did Jimmy? She's crying, sir. I didn't need to do that. Which is probably the most famous scene from this movie.

Wow. You skipped a big one. Are you going in chronological order? Jimmy's managerial debut managerial and air quotes Oh the minute long pee I had that in what stage is the best Did you time it? It's 53 seconds, right?

I had that in what stage the best Because it's short Another montage That with the Dottie does the split Teams doing well montage Penny Marshall owning the sports movie montage Where Rosie says Think there's men that ain't seen your bosoms

They have that line We have the Not a baseball player But the black lady who picks up the ball And it's like I like how they don't beat you over the head with it It's there you have to think about it's like Oh

And that's it But I thought that part was really well handled Then Marla getting married What a turnaround for Marla Oh my God She's married, she's off I have some thoughts about that later And pick a nits

I've got some notes On Marla's exit The telegram scene is great. Oh, yeah. Do you think Jimmy hoped it was Dottie's husband, like deep down? He's like, please let it be Mr. Dottie. I'm stepping in at the moment. I bet you the thought crossed his mind.

Oh, he definitely did. No question. The thought crossed his mind. Dottie quits. Great one. One of my favorite quotes in any sports movie ever. Oh. Chicken shit, Dottie.

You want to go back home to Oregon and make 100 babies. Great. I'm in no position to tell anyone how to live. But sneaking out like this, quitting. You regretted for the rest of your life. Baseball is what gets inside you. It's what lights you up. You can't deny that.

It just got too hard. It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. Alzheimer.

We should have said that to everybody who joined the ringer just as an inspiration or sent that in a play card or whatever. But that scene, Hank's so good in that scene, it's like, I could see this guy winning a couple Oscars. Yeah, that scene is phenomenal. This is, man, this is a loaded field. I know, I try to narrow it down. I only have two more. I have the game seven. Okay.

Which includes that whole section with, you're still missing the cutoff man. You're still missing the cutoff man. That's something that I would like you to work on before next season. Oh, poor Evelyn. That's something I'd like you to work on for next season. Something we could maybe. We have that. We have Bill Pullman watching his wife doing the That's My Wife,

which would easily have been my reaction coming back from war with my blown off foot. They're like, my God, my wife's awesome. Who knew? What a catcher. She's like Bill Dickie out there. And then all laid into the close. collision, which I'll just do this now. Okay.

I think that collision is one of the most brilliant moments ever in a sports movie. Wow. It's so good. It's so good. The whole movie's literally leading up to a collision. They set it up perfectly. She runs around third base. There's no way she should be coming around, right?

And she's just like, fuck this. The stop sign. She's like, fuck this. I hate my sister. I am barreling into her. And the sister, Gina knows it's coming with about 10 feet to go. Like, oh, this is not about baseball anymore. This, my own sister is going to try to murder me.

And then we have the collision, the fallback, and the shot of the hand on the ball. And she lets the ball go leading to the whole unanswerable question of, did she intentionally let the ball? A 30-year debate at this point. Oh, my God. And then kick gets carried off. She gets what she wanted. the hero and then it cuts to Hanks and Gina Davis just kind of watching and she has that small

smile on her face. I just think it is executed start to finish masterfully. That is one of the best scenes in a sports movie. I love this take. I largely agree. I was prepared to spend a good like 15 minutes of this podcast talking about how every single cut that we get of the different angles of the collision are completely different positions around the plate. I have that in picking nets. Yeah, that is tough. Yeah, that is tough. You're right.

I've seen this movie enough times that I try to overlook that. You're right. It's the one. It's the one to merit. Assistant director really screwed that one up. Do you want to do the, did she drop it on purpose now or save it for unanswered questions. Let's save it for unanswerable questions. Okay. It's a fervent debate. I'm looking forward to circling back to that. Wow. Okay. My last one is the sister saying goodbye to each other I thought

was perfect. I really like it. Bill, you're being such a sweetheart in this pod. You're so moved. You're just so moved by the siblings. Don't worry. Don't worry. I have some kit thoughts later. I'm just I'm riding a high now. I'll save my crick curses for later. I'll save my crick criticism for later, but I like, I like, I like, I like, I really, you really feel like they're sisters. Yes. I mean, the, the resentment that Kit carries, I think it's like incredibly relatable, not just inside of a sister or sibling dynamic, but just in like any sort of relationship, someone who is just like basically perfect, right? The model of excellence in every respect, you would always feel inadequate, especially if everybody is always telling you, hey, this other person is so great.

We're not really paying attention to you. you were not really interested in you. Yeah. One of the things that I think is really crucial is that Dottie doesn't ever actually do anything intentionally to make Kit feel bad. Like she can't help that she's good at these things. And in fact, goes out of her way to say, I don't really want this. Ira, please trade me, et cetera, and really wants Kit to succeed.

But goes out there. I mean, I just love the walk to the mound. High fastballs. She can't hit him. Can't lay off. All right. Call on time, walking out to the mound, and calling for the high heat that she knows it. That's why she's such a great character.

She's a fucking badass. That is an unbelievable movie moment. It's incredible. It elevates the character, their relationship, all of it. Because, and you know, again, we'll get back to the day. Did she drop it on purpose thing later? But, like, Doddy wants Kit to be happy and wants her to succeed. But Doddy wants her to learn as well.

And she wants to prove a point. And she wants to continue to achieve, even though she doesn't, her entire existence doesn't orient around that outcome of that game. But, like, all of those different elements just help make it feel like so, it's true to life. It really does. You know, it's like never one note. It's great.

Well, she doesn't want to give her sister. there's an F-this piece to her where she's like, you know what, pat it with this lady. That's in the fun. I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to, and even like when she walks to the mound, she's like, you know what,

I'm not giving this to her, she's going to have to earn it, which is what makes the drop so interesting. Okay. When they go to the baseball hall of fame, that might be rewatchable. So it's a tad corny for me. I don't really like seeing

grown-up spillman and stuff like that, but whatever. Some people do. Any other rewatchable scenes for you? Oh, man. I have a few other ones that I'll hit very quickly. I love, again,

in the Jimmy managerial debut with dug out a conversation with Ira afterwards. I especially like the move in the fifth inning where you scratched your balls for an hour. And Jimmy says,

anything worth doing is worth doing right. That's so funny. I love the whole suds bucket sequence, like everything in that entire, just the elite dancing for Madonna. It's like, let's really showcase that we have Madonna in this movie, but also the Yeah, that was good.

You're right. That part's great. Like Madonna in sliding shorts. I had that in what stage the best? Just like they clearly said, let's let Madonna cook here for a couple minutes. Clear out. Clear out. Madele's got control of the movie now.

The, you mentioned the hooch nuptials already, but the hooch Nelson meat cute, Marla singing it had to be you as Nelson. in swoons and creams and khakis. It's just unbelievable. I would throw out, I guess, there are two nighttime bus rides. All of the bus scenes are good. You're right.

That one bus ride should be on there. So good. With though Gina and Tom Hanks when it seems like, oh man, there's something here with these two. That one, and also the one before it,

also at night where you get the little, like, vignettes of the bonding across the teammates. Like the May teaching Shirley to read the sex scene. Alice is super. as they pass the graveyard, Betty and Kit talking to Doris about her lame boyfriend. The bus scenes are just so, so, so, so good.

I'm going to say, like, I'm torn between my actual two picks. I have two that I can't decide. I can't decide between Jimmy trying to stop Doddy from leaving, which I think is an all-time where it's just great. I guess it's, like, hard not to go with. There's no crying in baseball. It's one of the most iconic scenes in movie history. I'm actually this is the category is most rewatchable.

Yeah. I really like Game 7. I just enjoy the whole game. I think they do a good job with it. If I'm flicking channels and I know it's about to come on, I'm sticking with it. I'm like, all right, you know what? I'm going to watch Game 7 and try to sort out my feelings on the drop again. So that that would be my pick.

All right. All right. I'll formally cast my vote for there's no crying in baseball. I have to. I have to do it. especially because we get the bonus of him telling the auntie looks like a penis and then getting the boot. Great stuff. Perhaps you chastised her too vehemently. What's age the best?

Oh my God. Mention Gina Davis. Yep. Yep. Gina and Lori Petty as baseball players. Both super believable. They had to be. Madonna dance who we mentioned.

All the way May is a nickname I thought was just really funny and clever and kind of 40s-ish, too. It didn't feel like two over the top. And the fact that it was Madonna playing all the way May, who was... Yes. I just have Madonna as May as like the number one bullet point here. It's amazing. It should be absurd. But it works.

And I think you're doing about the actual play, quality of play is right. But other than that, it's just like incredible. Hi, my name's May. And that's more than a name. That's an attitude. Right. You get that one moment where it feels like she's like she's, like really going for the egot, you know, tell old Mr. Rich Chocolate Man.

Yeah, that's tough. But other than that, it's so good. It's amazing her performance. Yeah, believe me, that's coming back up in the Vincent Hanna overacting awards. But yeah, super charismatic. Same thing for Rosie. Rosie's great. Rosie and this and beautiful girls.

If you just watch those two things, you'd be like, and then you told somebody who knew nothing, watch these two movies. This person had a TV show. Do you think it was on for a long time? They would have been like, oh, yeah, I'm sure that was a huge hit. Which, by the way, her show was a hit for at least a little while. But this is probably the peak of her likability, I think.

Gina Davis said Rosie O'Donnell was no doubt the best baseball player out of all of them. Wow. Lori Petty, this was her wed stage the best. She said, until the day I die, I'll be kit, and that's great. Because she's just accepted. That's who everybody comes in. Oh, you're kit. Not point break, apparently.

The Dottie kid arguments, I think, have aged perfectly. The stuff like the Jimmyisms, don't get the clap. The waitress in South Bend, you know who she is? All that little Jimmy stuff. Right. All that stuff. I think. So good.

I think that stuff fades really well I thought the actual baseball backdrop like the stands and the way the vendors were dressed and the clothes and just they really nailed it I think every time I watch that I'm always impressed by that Anything else for you for what's the best?

I think you covered most of them I mean I already mentioned just the costume design shout out Cynthia Flint's costume design in this movie which is really incredible start to finish you know you mentioned May Madonna as May and Rosie as Doris. I would say, especially in the context of talking about like the sibling bond, the sister bond,

their friendship. Like May and Doris as a duo in this movie. It's so organic the way that their backstory is incorporated, like learning, oh, the dance hall and she was a dancer and I was a bouncer. And then the moment with the dad later, like the way that they, they're not trying to tear each other down. They're always actually trying to prop each other up. Like, that dynamic is just so great.

I think, like, again. And the ball busting, I think is. Yes. Very essential to if you're doing the sports movie correctly and you're having a whole ensemble ass. You have to have people busting each other's chops. It has to be in there. Have to have it. I think just in general, like, again, the bulk of the cast is convincing ballplayers. Like, we can't really overstate how, uh, how much that helps the movie. Like, when Hooch's dad says she's got an eye like DiMaggio and then we watch Hooch hit fucking frozen rope after frozen rope shattering the glass of the gym. It's like pretty amazing.

And switch hitter. Switch hit her. Both sides. She's like, wow, now I'm going to go to the other side. Who do you think Hooch's like real-life MLB comp is given the switch hitting part? I mean,

she's hitting lasers from both ends. All right, I got it. You would say, I mean, you would say Pete Rose, but I think she might have had even a little more power than Pete Rose, right? Oh, wow.

Okay, I wasn't going to go quite to that caliber. I was going to, what do you think about, I was thinking Miggie at first, but then because of the switch hitting, what about Lance Hitting has to be in there? Lance Berkman. Yeah, Lance Berkman's a good one. Yeah.

Yeah, I like that one. Pretty good stuff. All right, we're taking a break. Then we got some What's Age the Worst, included the Most, included the Most Controversial part of this podcast. All right, what's age the worst? They made a TV series. This was during this weird era.

We covered it with when we did the Parenthood Pod. They couldn't help themselves in the late 80s, early 90s. If a movie did well, they would option the rights and try to make a TV series. And then the TV series would bomb. every time. They made a TV series. Gary Marshall, Megan Cabinow, Tracy Ranner, and John Lovitz reprised their roles. Carrie Lowell took over Gina Davis's role. She eventually

became Mrs. Richard Gear. Only five of the six episodes made were broadcast, and it died a quick death, which it should have, because I don't know why they would have even done that. Yeah. She still didn't have a lot of ideas. Not a lot of ideas in the early 90s. It's difficult. I mean, I get it, you know. IP. You always want to return to right by P when you can. And it's, you know, it's hard not to think about how you could reposition Ernie, he of the, well, it would bruise the hell out of me line delivery after seeing them milk a cow, you know? If you get him in more scenes, you've got to try. How do you feel, though, about the fact that they're making another version of the show now?

Amazon is making a league of their own again. Are we talking about this later and could this be a 10 episode Netflix show? Is it actually, yeah, I was going to save it for that. Let's save it for that. More wood sage the worst. Madonna. Now, here's why. I don't, like my daughter, who watched this movie six years ago, really enjoyed it, watched it. I made her watch it on the airplane come back from Boston on Monday night. I'll give you her thoughts when we get to the crucial part of this what's age of worst.

Okay. But she doesn't really know anything about Madonna. It meant nothing to her that she was in the movie. And I was thinking, as this movie gets passed down, the Madonna impact erodes by year. Wow. And that's just the reality of the situation. Okay. By the time, 20 years from now,

to people be like, Madonna, I think she was a singer. It will mean nothing. I think we're like halfway there already. Okay. Boy, that's upsetting to hear. Do kids not spend the bulk of high school anymore parsing the lyrics of like a prayer to learn how it's really about a blowjob?

No. Is that not a thing that happens anymore? They don't know that she bought by Cindy Lopper was about masturbation. They don't know any of this stuff. opening song of the movie, a little corny. Little early 90s corny. I think they would have a redo on that one.

You mentioned the deleted scene. Doddy watches Jimmy hit batting practice. He goes in for a kiss. And that moment is the real reason she decides to quit the team. Thank God they took this out. That was more so than even the kiss itself and the deleted scene. That was the true shock because it goes right into her marching into the clubhouse, packing up and asking Ira to trade her. It's the preceding scene.

It completely changes the end of the movie. So Megan Kavanaugh, who's in the movie, said it was very upsetting to the real women players, apparently. Davis's character was married. It upset the former players that she would kiss another man while her husband was at war. I would hope so. I would hope it would upset the former players. Thank God. I mean, man, that could have been one of the all-time dumb decisions in a really good movie. Thank God they did do that. All right. Two more and then we'll get to the big one.

Okay. Old Daddy, the actress. Just not quite bringing it. Yeah. Pretty TV movie-ish. I just want a little more, which leads me to my second Woods, age the worst. Just use the real actresses that you already had in the movie and how. them put aging makeup on? Why are we using totally different people? How hard is this? If the movie were made today, that wouldn't even be a thought, right? You would just do the aging

tag. Why not? Just do the aging stuff. Put some makeup on them. That was stupid. All right, here's the big Woods Age the Wars for me, unless you have any more. I have one other one. All right. Give me your one. You teased it earlier. I think you indicated you were going to have this coming up and picking Nets, but I have it here. Hooch quitting the team after marrying Nelson is it all time what's age the worst for me. It's a big out. It's a big out for the female gender. Yeah. You're Pete Rose. There would be

characters who it would have been totally believable and fine for but not Hooch. Huch loved the game. I know. Huch is dead. There's that incredibly touching scene between Huch

and her dad at the train station when like he talks about how nothing happens there and she's got to go somewhere where things happen. And I guess like falling in love and finding your life partner

is a thing happening. And I say this to cast no aspersions on somebody who chooses to go get married and have kids. That's fine. Ultimately, that's the decision Dottie makes, right? It's to not return to the league. That's great.

Wonderful. Huch would have seen out the season. I just cannot accept that Huch would not have seen out the season. Totally agree. I don't understand why her teammates I guess that spoke to women's, the role of women in the 1940s is that your goal back then was to find a husband and marry kids or have some kids apparently.

And the fact that who found a guy, it's like, okay, see you later. That's it. So much for the pennant race and the fact that you have 120 RBI and 80 games. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. And like especially because in the earlier tryout scene, which was so great as we talked about, you have that really fascinating cut to the Miss Gillespie, like the masculization of women and careers in higher education

and the most disgusting example of this sexual confusion. And it's like these characters are supposed to be rebelling against that or at least challenging that. I just, I think also like Nelson, you know, Nelson was supportive, supported, which is athletic pursuits. I think Nelson would have been happy to sit and watch. happily whipped husband who would have sat in the stands

and rooted for her to go three for four every game. All right, here's my What Stage is the Worst? Okay. We're walking off the plane Monday night, coming back from Boston. And Zoe says, I watch the League of Their Own. I was like, you've seen it before, right? She's like, yeah, I saw it.

The second time I've seen it. What'd you think? She goes, it's really good. Kit just really bothers me. Yeah. I just don't like her. She's not a good character. It really makes me mad that they let her win at the end.

She's a bad sister and super resentful. And I don't think it's like a good life lesson that you could just be a bitch the whole time and then you get to win. And I was like, you know what, Zoe Simmons? This is why you'll probably have your own podcast someday. This A1 observations like that, because you're right. And I didn't want to deep down admit it that kit was super annoying and maybe not that awesome. And I think it's a little sacrilegious to even go there, but we're going to have to go there. Kit kind of sucks.

Yeah. Yes. I agree. Okay. Do we need to go any further? Like, can we just leave it there? So here's, I think it's a great and telling observation from Zoe. No surprise.

Here's the thing. Kit is supposed to be a brat, right? Like that's embedded into the character. She's an ingrate. She doesn't appreciate the way that Dottie has actually helped her because she's just so threatened by Dottie's success. And again, as we talked about earlier,

there are things about that that are really compelling and relatable. I do actually really agree with Zoe. I was thinking about this rewatching it that there's something about the end that feels a little off. As amazingly rewatchable as you laid out as the ending is,

because it's like, kids should feel a little bit ashamed, I think. of the way that she's behaved. Or Dottie should call her out on it and be like, hey, Kit. Yeah, but Dottie's too gracious for that. That's the thing. But maybe she has to have the big sister mom and like, hey, Kit. But I think that came earlier in the, in the boarding house, getting breakfasts.

Oh, in the bedroom, yeah, when she screams at her. Yeah. And she's like, and Dottie, it's important in that moment for Dottie to challenge Kit and call her out, as she does really effectively, pointing out how she's blaming her for things that are not in any way Dottie's fault. But like, I don't know, on the one hand, I really like the ending because Doddy should win. And many sports movies, Doddy and the Peaches would win. And I think it's kind of amazing that they don't, right? They flipped it.

That's like a bold decision, actually. Oh, yeah. I love that. But it's not like I was rooting for them to part on sour terms and not maintain their relationship. I think the fact that Dodie is able to balance a lot of the different aspects of that dynamic is part of what makes her such a memorable and lasting character. But yeah, Kit's just like a jerk. There are plenty of people who have been the beleaguered little sister, but there aren't too many moments where Kit, like at the end really wins you back.

She does have that sweet moment where she says like, you know, she basically tries to convince Doddy to stay. And it's like, well, just when I want you to stay, you're leaving. Yeah, I don't believe her. So we get that resolution. No, you're a bad person, Kit. Yeah, deep down you might be a bad person. We don't have the scene on the bus.

that wins us over with Kit. They're missing the late-night scene where she's like sitting next to Tom Hanks or whoever. And she's talking about her sister and she says, you know what? My entire life, she's been better at everything than me. She always got the guys.

She always everyone gravitated to her. She was better at sports. And I've never had that one thing. And it's like, and she's been awesome to me, whatever. Like, however you want to lay it out, where at least like I'm listening going like, at least she understands that she's consumed by this irrational resentment of her sister.

I don't feel like she ever even understood that, even in that last scene where she's like, oh, now you're leaving. It's like, oh, yeah. So you're okay with your sister? Because now you beat her in a game. Now your relationship's okay. That's not what should have made the relationship okay.

Yeah. You got to win? Right. No, it's a good point. I think there are the moments where she expresses things like that, but it's purely through, like the life magazine sequence is a great,

example, right? Where it's like, did you tell them about me? Yeah. It's just like annoying. It's honestly, she's like a 14 year old. They're like a 12 year old. She's not like an adult woman the way she handles it. You know where they could have done it?

Because one of the things that actually is really great about that final conversation is that we see that kid has just found her own life, right? She talks about how she's not going to move back. She might not even come home for the holiday. She really likes it there. She has friends. She wants to get a job there. And that's actually really cool.

It's like she has found her own thing. And that specifically was always what was missing, that she couldn't find her own thing. So she should have thanked Dottie for that. Yeah. Hey, Dottie. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have blamed you for the trade. It was the best thing you ever could have done for me.

What I realized is I needed my own thing. Some sort of realization that you might be a good person deep down. You add one line of dialogue there and you remove one minute of the absolute sob fest in the dugout after she blows it on the mound. And the balance is probably, probably something that works better for Zoe at the end there. It's a good note. Listen, unfortunately, the truth is the truth. And Kit kind of sucks. There's nobody who's like, you know who side I was on during that movie? Kitts. No. That person does not exist. And if you do exist, you're a sociopath. Okay. Casting, what ifs. Some fascinating

ones. So Penny Marshall said Demi Moore was originally in line for one of the parts, but by the time we came around, she was pregnant. So Bruce Willis literally screwed her out of the part. That was a Penny Marshall quote. Yes. Deborah Winger was originally cast as Dottie and left the film because she was outraged that they cast Madonna. This is an all-timer. I was stunned. I remember finding we had another Debra Winger movie where this. popped up and being like, whoa, really? She thought it would turn the film into a quote-unquote Elvis Presley musical. She stood by her assertion years later saying, quote, look at how Madonna's acting careers

turned out. So not only does she stand by her decision, she's defying about it. Yeah. Well, guess what? 30 years later here on the rewatchables, all the way May just took what is aged the best as a category crown. Yeah, that's an L for Deborah Winger. Also, Deborah Winger kind of needed this part.

She had such a good run in the 80s. It had tailed off. I think she made Black Widow with Teresa Russell in the late 80s somewhere. She made Legal Eagles or one of those. But her star was starting to fade a little bit. I think Dottie, if she had pulled that character off, could have been an awesome, awesome character for her.

I also don't think she would have been the right pick. I think Gina Davis was 10 out of 10, perfect. In every respect is Dottie. Debra Winger's daddy, no. Throw that to the side. It's impossible to think of anybody else's dotty. Yeah. Genuinely impossible.

Great job, Gina Davis. Penny said that Tom Hanks came to me and wanted to be in it because he had some movies that didn't do so hot. Bonfire of the vanities, Joe versus the volcano. So I don't. It felt like a slight dig at Tom Hacks. I didn't like that, Penny Marshall. She cast her daughter, Tracy Reiner as Betty Spaghetti.

Yep. She cast her brother, Gary Marshall, the famous TV producer, as Walter Harvey. Right. He was cast at the last minute because they couldn't afford the original choice. Christopher Walken. This one floored me. Can you imagine? This was like Pete Christopher Walken. Like he's hosting SNL at this point. He's about to be in Pulp Fiction. This was when he had turned as like a real character that people like love. Man, how did they not have enough money for Christopher Walken? The movie made like $135 million. I don't know. But also like, I I adore watching Christopher Walken, but like, and most recently in Severance, I won't miss an opportunity to try to sell you on Severance, Bill.

He was phenomenal as Bert in Severance. Fair. But like, do you need Christopher Walken as Harvey in this movie? He's like barely in the movie. That would have been so strange. Gary Marshall's perfect. Best that guy, I kid the Joey Pants Award. So this movie's old.

It's a little tougher to pick that guys. But there's two. There's two great ones. One is the guy who played Squiggy on Laverne and Sherry. which was a huge, huge, huge 70s sitcom was number one. It was the happy day spin-off. I think it was actually number one year in the late 70s. And it was, Squiggy was one of the sidekicks that Laverne and Shirley had.

He played the baseball announcer. This one's better, though. Grown up still well. Yeah. Was played by Chubby from Teen Wolf. Who was Teen Wolf, one of his teammates. He was the fat guy in Teen Wolf, who made the... hook shot and he's setting picks for Michael J. Fox.

And then that guy wasn't seen for a while and then showed up his grown-up still well. Talk about, you mentioned the realization that Shirley couldn't read earlier. Talk about a surprisingly like tugs on your heartstrings moment. I was not expecting Stillwell to make me emotional on a rewatch. Oh, about his mom? Yeah. It's really touching when he's talking about how these were the best years of her life.

It's really sweet. It's really sweet. He didn't expect to get. choked up from Chubby from Teen Wolf? Was it under your list? I have one more that guy. Okay. Joey Slotnick credited as Doris fan number two.

He's, you know, in Twister, Boston Public, the good wife. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. He's one of the two guys from the Suds bucket of seeing who keeps showing up for Doris. I literally was like that guy. That's a good that guy. You're right. Vincent Anna, give me all he got acting word. for overacting.

The finalists are the Madonna scene you already mentioned. And Marla's singing. Oh, wow. Talk about dialing it up. I don't know who the winner is. We might have to have co-winners. I think it's got to be the Madonna moment.

Because if anything you could argue that the hooch serenade is almost like understated. It has to be over the top. Yeah, okay. All right. Oh, boy. Dionne Waiter's a word for best he check.

It's got to be John Lovitz. He's in the movie for 12 minutes. Easiest ones ever. Comes up with phrases like, it's been a thin slice of heaven and pickle tickle. The pickle tickle was shocking stuff. Pickle-pickle-a-boat. He's so funny in this.

Oh, my God. He has just unbelievable, unbelievable lines. Recasting couch. Just a little thought experiment. Okay. All due respect to Lori Petty. I know she's kid for the rest of her life. Maybe we work in a little 1992 Sandra Bullock in here, his kid?

Oh, my God. Now we have a movie with Gina Davis and young Sandra Bullock. This is Love Potion No. 9-era Sandra Bullock. We know she's a good athlete because we saw her drive the bus and speed. I was impressed by some of her bus driving. I have no idea if she could play baseball. They probably could have taught her. Oh, my God.

But yeah, Sandra Bullock, because then maybe she leans into the likability of Kit a tiny bit more so we don't leave the movie thinking Kit's just an entitled Brett. I feel like we would almost swing too far in the opposite direction, though. Like you can't not root for her. No, you don't know who to root for? Okay. Like, she couldn't be bratty enough. Yeah, like you can't not root for Sandra Bullock, right? Anybody else from that era you would put his kit? It's tough.

I went through everybody. It's tough. And even though we're critiquing, you know, kids' like ability as a character, obviously the performance is really strong and great. And it's difficult to think of the movie without Laurie Penny. I thought about Courtney Cox was another one right in this range.

But she's, I mean, I can't imagine her as a baseball player. She's like 5'4 skinny, like just her like bowling over Gina Davis. I'm not sure. One of the casting what ifs that I saw that I couldn't shake was that Marissa Tomei had like reportedly filmed an audition tape and really wanted to be in the movie, but I guess Penny Marshall

didn't think that she was a good enough player. Yeah. I feel like Marissa Tomey fits in the movie. Like you could just imagine her on that team. Can't you imagine her as a peach? Totally agree. She would have been, she honestly could have been all the way made if Madonna didn't do it. Yeah.

I mean, I would have wanted to take Madonna out of this movie. Also, it's amazing. This is not a recasting, but just like, it's amazing to remember that Taya Leone is in this movie. Looks great. I almost didn't recognize her. Yeah, Tia Leone is on the other team. We should have mentioned that earlier. Yeah, she's a bell.

Then two years later, she gets bad boys. Half Faster Internet Research. The lady who played Helen, her name is Zane Ramsey, broke her nose trying to catch a ball. So that happened. There are so many injury stories from this movie. Yeah, the huge bruise. Yeah.

So the huge bruise was real. Tough one. Jeannie Davis said, the cast was all banged up, skin ripped off their legs. Rosie O'Donnell had broken fingers. Lori Petty said she had a broken foot. Basically for half of the filming, that she had like some prosthetic, something like put in there so she could run on the foot.

But that's why she didn't look maybe as athletic in the last part of the movie. She did in the first. So that's not true. They filmed the tryout scene at Wrigley Field. That was where the Harvey Field was based. They filmed the Rockford Peach's home games at league's stadium in Huntingberg in Indiana. The championship game was filmed in Evansville.

Madonna contributed, this used to be my playground to the movie, but it was not included in the soundtrack for contractual reasons because she was the Taylor Swiftor for her time. Interesting. Lori Petty on those period costumes that they played in in one of the oral history, she said, it was horrible. The wig, the hat, the wool socks, the creepy spike shoes. I slid to home once by Cooke got caught in the rim of the plate

so on and so on. I guess not fun to play in that clothing. There's a couple oral histories that have some of this about this. She also said in one of them, six of them, including her, rented a house of the pool. Francis Ford Coppola sent cases of his wine. We all hung out.

We would go to Denny's. It sounded like they all had a good time. And then the home run scene, I guess she actually hit the home run. She ran the bases three times and then puked the last time. Oh, no. From all the running. In real life,

Candy Bar King, Walter Harvey, in the movie, decides to start the league because of World War II. In actual real life, it was Philip Wrigley who started a woman's softball league for the same reason. So it was softball instead of baseball. We agree with that decision. and do baseball, not softball. Yeah.

Seeing, you know, you mentioned Wrigley Field, which is obviously very instantly recognizable. And it was fun given the Philip Wrigley real world history. Is this a spot to talk for a second about the, I don't even know if this counts as half-ass internet research because it's pretty widely out there, but that who Jimmy Dugan is loosely based on? Oh, yeah.

Let's do it now. Jimmy Fox. Jimmy Fox. And a little Hack Wilson. You see Hag Wilson come up every now and then, but Jimmy Fox is the bigger one. he hit 58 homers in 1932 in the movie they said

Jimmy did that in 1936 the homers were around the same I think Jimmy Fox had more both first baseman Yeah Fox had 534 and Jimmy had a 487 right Both known to have a couple pops Time to time

The um And Fox was a manager in the in the AGPBL Right Yeah The um The women softball thing was apparently a real thing In the 40s They would have big crowds for the games

and all that stuff. There was a stunt double for Gina Davis's split catch. If you watch, you could see the back of the person and they cheated. The peeing was also Penny Marshall with a hose in a bucket. That wasn't Tom Hanks actually peeing. That's like one of my favorite bits of half-ass internet research ever. That's incredible. Tom Hanks put on 30 pounds.

He said he gained all the weight at a nearby dairy queen. And Penny Marshall encouraged him to keep eating. and then she said she also told Rosie O'Donnell to eat as little as possible because they were trying to make her see more baseball. And then it said Madonna, they had to move her from third base to the outfield because she couldn't figure out ground balls.

Key point. I think they would have made her the shortstop. Interesting. Yeah. Fly ball is a little easier. They didn't like stick her in left field or anything. You never see her sprinting a while and making like some catch in the outfield, anything like that.

So the only other one was Brenda Feigen, who helped establish Miss Magazine. She wrote in her autobiography that Penny Marshall stole the movie from her. Quote, the world may think Penny Marshall is thoughtful on women's issues, but in reality, she screwed another woman just the way the worst male directors do. That's from the book. What? Yeah. So a little credit stealing accusations.

Any other, that's all I had for half-asses. I think covered it. All right. We'll go to Apex Mountain. Boy, okay. I'm excited to see what you have here. Gina Davis, Thelma Louise, Delma Louise, then this.

Back to back years, 91 and 92. What a fucking run. Apex literally. Maybe of beauty, humanity, acting. You pick a noun. She might have been the Apex. Great job by Gina Davis. Amazing.

Penny Marshall, I would say yes. She dined off this movie and big and really never really hit these heights again. This is the most successful movie she made. Lory Petty definitely. She even said like I'm Kit. That's how people know me. Cow milking?

Seen a better cow milking scene in a movie? Oh boy. Wow. Witness? A lot of good cow milking witness. I love witnesses you know. What are your top five? Oh my God.

I can't believe how in love I am with Harrison Forrest. movies. Witnesses one? Witness is number one. I know that's like a slightly unconventional opinion and most people would say, you know, Han Solo or indie. And obviously he looks fucking incredible in those roles

too, but him, the singing Sam cook and drumming on the top of the car in witness, that's like sex boiled down into one image. Oh my God. There you go. Incredible. Regarding Henry probably finishing less.

Long long movie piece. I think this, it's either this or Austin Powers in the finals. I don't know who wins. Austin Powers, it's kind of funnier. I don't know. Maybe Austin Powers is still the winner. Oh, boy.

That's a great one. You know, 53 seconds, I guess, is a long time. But I actually was disappointed when I timed it. Especially because they're talking about, like, let's time it. How long should it be in the movie? You think it's going to be like two and a half minutes. And then it's not. Doesn't watch the hands.

Same puzzling hygiene that we talked about in Kramer versus Kramer. Very tough. That's what, when you do a long YouTube clip for The Ringer about something, when you have Dylan Berkey making, it's going to be all the time somebody didn't wash their hands after they peed in a famous movie. It's like 19 minutes of non-hand washing. That's distressing. Madonna, no.

John Lovitz, I'm going to say no, because I still feel like when he was at his peak on SNL, that show was being watched by 15 million people and was pretty culturally big. straight-harn, straight-hawn. I have no chance to say in this correctly. You could tell me it's pronounced nine different ways. Straight-Haron? I'm going with the firm. He got nominated for an Oscar for the firm,

which was a year after this. He is just an incredibly robust IMDB. Great job. It's always a pleasure to see him in any sort of IP. TV, movies, play, pick it. Bill Pullman, no. Independence Day. O'Donnell.

Probably not. I mean, she didn't have her own talk show and was pretty famous with talk show. Hank's, no. Women's baseball. Women's sports movies. Women's sports movies. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't you think? Let me think about this. Love and basketball is bigger than that. Love and basketball is 2000, right? And I guess... This movie did way better budget box office-wise, I think. Early 2000s, though, is a strong...

Like there's a good amount in the early 2000s. No, you're right. Women's sports movies, yes. Yeah, I think so. Baseball movies, yes. What about sister movies, Apex Mountain? The answer is no, but I don't know what the answer is for the yes. Yeah, I don't think it can be.

I don't think it can be. But I don't know what it is either. Sister movies. Somebody who have to tell us. All right, let's take one more break and then we'll do Pickin' Nets. Pickin' Nets. I'm so excited for this, Valerie. I have some really hardcore just, I'm just picking nits.

I can't wait. Just picking them. Okay. So Jimmy's not a chain smoker? No smoking sags with Jimmy. It's an era where everyone smokes cigarettes. He's dipping, but he's not smoking some cancer sticks in the bus. There's no cigarette smoke in this movie anywhere.

It's 1945. Cigrate ads galore. Everyone's smoking. That one person's having a sig. Nobody. I mean, maybe they got their like discovered time travel and heard CR's, you know, smoking hottest take episode and really just found some new perspective on life way ahead of schedule.

Kit. They do say that they can't smoke in the league. Now that I think about it, like that is one of the stands you would be smoking. And you'd be smoking on the bus. Come on. Kit, Kit gets traded before the playoffs. What kind of league is this? The regular season just ended.

You can make trades? You can't even, what league can you make trades? I would have loved some more details about the actual like workings of the league, given how few teams there are. Other teams didn't have a pitcher? Why not show the semifinals win setting up the seven game series? Why do we just skip over? Just give me the montage. We've already three montages.

Guess what? I like seeing montages. I like seeing winning. Well, you know what you got instead. One of my favorites, a newspaper headline montage. Yeah, fine. What was Kit's pitch count in the World Series? Oh, man.

Yeah. Has fan graphs trying to figure this out? About kids pitch count. And also, I want to know more about Kids Arsenal overall. You know, we know that she lost the curve ball early in some of these outings. Yeah. So just 162 pitches per game for the seven game series? Probably.

That Doddy leaves and that teams just, just fine. Team eeks out the three, the three, they get to a game seven without their best player, who's their catcher, they have like,

without their two best players because who's also gone by this point. And, and kits gone. They just sold her to the other three of their best players. A little weird.

All right. Game seven. Okay. Peaches are down one. Second and third. Two outs. Oh my God. Dottie comes to the plate,

best player in the, the league. What are we doing? We're not intentionally walking, Dottie. We have first base is open. It's right there. There's nobody standing on first base. There are two things here. That's one of them. Baffling, befuddling. Why is Dottie hitting fifth? This drives me crazy. Why is she hitting fifth in the clinching World Series game? Now, granted, she missed the first six games. She could have missed 60 games and she should have been hitting second, third, or fourth. The lineup is May, who I'm assuming is still leading off because that's established earlier in the movie that she's leading off. Doris, Evelyn, Helen, and then Doddy.

Now, we're not in the Sabre metrics era here where you know to hit your best hit or second, but why is Doddy not at least hitting third or fourth in this lineup? That was absolutely, baffling. That has to hit third. Yeah. But the intentional walk thing is, it's astounding. It's, I had it on the list too. it's shocking.

Penny Marshall, kudos to you. Incredibly realistic movie. You nailed it with all the athletic performances. Nobody on the set mentioned this to you. And most,

again, there's like a lot of moments throughout the movie where like there's the earlier sequence where Dottie's really reading the defense talking about how kids got to pull. Like I feel like

most of these players would have been ready for the shift era, knowing to go the other way when the defense tells you to. But the intentional walk, baffling, really is.

Jimmy, We see Jimmy that we see the plaque for him in the Women's Hall of Fame. And says he made it to 1987. I was also shocked by this. How about 1954? He made it to his 70s? 1987. So he's 81 when he died?

The guy was virulent alcoholic. I mean, I'm thrilled to know that he had such a healthy and vibrant second half of his life. There's absolutely no chance zero that that guy hits it to 1987. Those are my biggest nitpicks. I have some unanswerable questions too, but what do you have for nitpicks? I have a few other ones. Just to, you know, just one more moment on hygiene corner drives me absolutely crazy when they did the opening the daughter and then daddy herself putting the filthy catcher's mitt on top of the cream and white blouses in the suitcase. Inane, the sequence with the grandkids in the driveway.

Hmm. Tough. Doddy, there's something there nice to parse about the, again, the sibling relationship with the like, oh, he's younger than you and then kill him. But you're trying to impart wisdom to your grandchildren. You can't let Bobby get away with three double dribbles on one play. Right. You're an athlete.

You've got to teach them the game. You're a former athlete. Terrible. You probably passed your athletic jeans down to your grandkids. Terrible. I know they're getting in the car. They've got to travel. it's awful.

I hope someone sat Bobby down at some point, maybe even older brother Jeffrey and taught him the fundamentals of the game. That was appalling. It's not like he's four. He's like eight. I had this in unanswerable questions, but let's do it here.

Could we just get rid of the start of the movie and go right to the 40s? And then when we finally meet grown up, older Gina Davis, whatever, like that's the first time we see all those characters. Do we need the first four minutes? My answer is no. We do not.

Yeah, I don't think we really need it either. I mean, I guess it establishes that baseline. We get it later. Yeah. What do we care? No, you're right. Yeah, I think we would be fine without it, ultimately. You're right.

What else do you have? Any other, any other nits? Why does Doddy catching a baseball while May and Doris so fully? I get it. It was a, it was a beam, and she bare handed it, and that's impressive. But they switch from trash talking to being absolutely awed by her, because she caught a baseball at baseball tryouts. How'd you do that?

That drives me crazy. I'll tell you why they did it because they really wanted every guy I watched that movie to fall in love with Gina Davis even more. I mean, it's a great moment, but like. It's so impressive. May and Darce should just be like, yeah, cool. I could do that too. Because I'm here to try out for a professional baseball league.

Right. And then I already mentioned the different angles of the home plate on the crucial moment. But we talk about that more and unanswerable questions. Could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix show? We're about to find out. Right, Amazon. I mean, it's been 30 years since this movie. I'm not against it.

I'm against... I'm against doing this in 1993. I do worry that they're going to try to retroactively shoehorn some current stuff into the 1940s instead of just letting the 1940s exist for whatever it was. I also wonder, how do you obey... How do you stay true to the movie without... You know, we've seen Cobra Kai do it. We saw Friday Nightly.

It's a TV show managed to feel different than the movie. It's tough to feel different than the movie, but this movie is also 30 years old. So I don't know. What are your concerns? I'm excited about it. I think that Abby Jacobson, who's the co-creator and the star from Broad City fame,

is just such a delight. I love her. So I'm really, really, really excited to see it. And I think that trying to maintain and tap into the things that people love about the story and that they hold really dear about the story, but explore it over just more time. I think that the movie

is really well-paced. It was shocking to see that there were 36 minutes of deleted scenes, and I love a long movie, but I was really glad that 36 minutes of extra movie was not in here. That was kind of amazing. But, like, I do think that the movie could have a, like, a harder rating

and more time and then be a really compelling 10 episode or eight-episode TV show, like just spending time with the characters would be so interesting. Who's your audience for it? Is it everybody or is it adults? It's probably more fun if it's a little more like veering toward like the rated R range. Yeah, I would like it to have like more of a hard R or an R or at least hard hard PG-13 energy to it.

I think that's probably- Sasha Gray is all the way May or Chloe Cherry. Let's go all in. I'll watch the first one. As you know, I'll always give you a test drive. Yeah. I'm a little nervous that it's going to be a bad idea. You do one whole episode.

She's smart. Yeah, she's awesome. You do one whole episode of Stilwell with his therapist talking about all the times that he was supposed to have his eyes covered in the dugout and instead watched his mother's teammates pull up their panty hose and their stockings, you know? Think of all of the possibilities. 60 minutes of 60 minutes. I'll go the other way.

Maybe still will, not in this. Did still well work as a character? Are we sure? All sorts of possibilities for new characters with this. It's exciting. Okay. Probably in answerable questions. This is a great category for this movie.

There are so many. I can't wait for this. I have some appetizers. Okay. What kind of halacious sex did Bob and Dottie have on his first night back do you think? Is it just a rambunctious all-nighter? She's got a little pen up from all the flirting with Jimmy. He just got back from the war.

What's going on? I go the other way. I think this is some of the, it's sweet and tender, but some of the teamest and quickest sex. And that's part of why they turned right back around. I love Bill Pullman and he looks great as Bob, but I do not feel the crackling spark between, between Dottie and Bob.

I just don't. Great take. What MLB catcher current or past is Dottie? I was trying to think. It's got to be somebody really good with some size.

Yeah, Johnny Bench is a good one. Big power hitter. Some kind of charisma to him. Like a real star of a dynasty. If she had played, if she had continued to play, I think she would have been the Johnny Bench of her time.

I was thinking, I didn't know if this made me a homer, but I was thinking Pudge Fisk. Tall, right-handed, little statuesque, a gamer, soldier out there. I like that one. 157 games on the 78 Red Sox because Don Zimmer never took them out for reasons that remained unqueer as his body broke down. But I thought he was a little Doddy-esque. Let's just do it now. Did Doddy drop the ball on purpose?

Okay. Here's what Gina Davis said. this is in one of the oral histories, the ESPNW oral history, that now is no longer available online. I'll say two things about that. Number one, I know the answer, because it was me, of course, I know the answer.

And number two, no, I am not going to answer that question. I never have, and I never will. We've already established Gina Davis is one of the greatest rays of sunshine that God's produced in the last 30 years. Hey, Gina, fuck off. Give us the answer. That's it?

That's it? What is this? The JFK assassination? At least can you put in your will when you die? You'll tell us the answer. Like, what are, since when did this become this secret that she's going to, she's going to die with the secret? It's a fucking sports movie.

I mean, it's generated almost as much online conversation and chatter as the JFK assassination. This is like, if you Google this, I mean, it is a robust treasure. It really is. Robust is a good word. It really is. with this debate. So our colleague and pal, Katie Baker, wrote a great piece in 2017 on The Ringer.com. What a great

website for the 25th anniversary of the movie. She asked Laurie Petty about this, and Petty denied it. Most of the people, I think the Gina Davis response is actually pretty rare. I think most people in the movie when they're asked about this say, absolutely not. She did not drop it on purpose. They reject that possibility. Well, why would Gina Davis

seemed to think that only she can unlock this secret. She wasn't the director and she didn't write the movie. So why is she the one that knows? What did she audible? And if she audibled, wouldn't everybody on the set have seen that she was audiblying? Or I don't know. My take is I think she dropped it unintentionally. Yeah, me too.

Ultimately, that's where I land. I think she got absolutely trucked by her little sister and she knew it was coming but didn't know was going to be as violent as it was, and the collision knocked her back, and she dropped it. I think that there are a couple compelling counterpoints that are at least worth mentioning. Well, it does seem like she lets it go versus dropping it. We also see like a, and now every collision is different, right? Every baseball play is going to be different. You could do something successfully 99 times out of 100 and then still have that one mistake.

But we do see another home play collision with Doddy earlier in the film, and she has no problem holding on to the ball. Now, I think whether she did it intentionally or not, there could still be some sort of subconscious element to this, given the relationship between her, between Doddy and Kit. I also think, you know, she does repeatedly kind of say,

like she doesn't care and she doesn't need this. That doesn't mean she doesn't want to win and doesn't want to try, but it's not like the defining, orienting moment of her life like it is for some of the other characters. However, and it does just say, yes, as you just said, it does just seem quite literally like she lets go in the ball. But ultimately, I think, one, Daddy's a good teammate, and she wouldn't do that to her teammates. I just don't believe that she would do that to her fellow Rockford Peaches who worked so hard and cared so much about that moment.

Counterpoint, she did ditch him for six games. That's true. But go ahead. But go ahead. By husband's home, I'll see all later. She had learned something from the kid resentment and wanted them to have their moment. I think the fact, the most compelling argument in favor of this. not being intentional is what we already talked about, which is going out to the mound and ordering the high heat. Like, she wants to beat Kit. That doesn't mean she can't be happy that Kit has achieved

something great. I think both of those things can be true at once, but I don't think she dropped the ball on purpose. I have gone back and forth on this a lot over the years, though. It's a tough one. Our beloved Katie Banks said, quote, many of arts finest works revolve around lasting ambiguity Did someone kill Tony Soprano? Is this an old lady or a young lass? Our Beatles songs really just hidden vehicles for satanic credits? And then she felt like this was up there. I think you have the correct point.

We already established that she wanted to win the game from the pitchers' mound visit. And nothing would have changed over the course of, what, a minute and a half? And I also think she got trucked by her sister. And she just didn't know her sister had it in. Right? Yeah. It's just weird. I think it was more bad editing than anything.

I think ultimately what should have happened, and again, this is a movie that we love, is Daddy should hold on to the ball, but Kit should just beat the throw by half a step. Oh, I disagree. You like the drop? You like the ambiguity? No, I like the collision. I think she should have, the hit, I think she should have dropped it as she was sprawling backwards versus landing and like the...

letting the ball go. I think that's what throws people off because it seems like she's like, eh, I'm letting it go. I guess, too, it is nice to like kind of solidify the idea that like even the best player can can make a mistake in such a pivotal moment, right? That's baseball. That gets back to the Jimmy quote about it being hard. Right. Well, this leads to my other in answerable question. If women's baseball in the 40s was being covered like we cover pro sports now, what does Stephen A's take on first take the next morning after this game? Is it like,

what was Doddy's last day? I'm so glad you brought this up. What was Doddy, Doddy Henson, you've got to hold on to that ball. I don't care if it's your sister. He's doing, I think Daddy's just getting destroyed.

You're six inches taller than your sister. She can knock you over. Backwards, you drop the ball. Why are you holding the ball with your right hand? isn't in your mitt with the with the ball like you should be cradling it what was the tag everything about it it's like i thought you were the best catcher in the league well there would be a couple cycles you would have the initial how could doddy hinson how could daddy hinson not be

ready for this moment the clinching decisive play of yeah maybe she would have been ready if she if she had been there the whole time for for the first six games you hadn't quit on the team daddy so there would be that and then there would have course be the backlash to the backlash. A whole wave of coverage about how we need to find empathy and support Dottie, who tried her best. The media cycle around that moment would have been extraordinary. I mentioned the newspaper montages. Oh, I thought you were going to throw in the, did she drop it intentionally? I mean, there's really like four waves to it. Because I think did she drop it intentionally is a whole second day. That becomes like a scandal. Yeah. Yeah. Did she drop it? Was she

trying to set up her sister. She knew she was leaving the league. She wanted to set up her sister for glory. I mean, maybe it becomes a sequel to the Black Sox scandal, you know? That's true. Wasn't that far away. It could be. Can I read you some, uh... The last piece of it is what you said about the last piece is known. We should feel bad for Dottie. She's a victim. Her mental health is being endangered by all this abuse she's taking for dropping the ball. And then people feel bad. The newspaper headlines, Can I read you some fake ones? You know, this is one of my favorite bits in sports movies when we get some newspaper montages. Here's some, here's ones that I think, you know, we can put them in on an interval of questions.

Why didn't we see these headlines? You know, if the press was doing its job bill, I think we would have seen these. Here's just a few. Rockford manager urinates in front of all girls baseball team before season opener. Next. Next on Daily Beast. Top hitter, retired. from girls baseball league after falling in love and marrying first man whoever showed interest

she does she was hitting 410 for the season does this count as a 400 season or does she quit the league that would do the sub article oh my god huge chocolate magnet threatens to pull plug on fledgling girls baseball league is world war near zen um rockford catcher abandon's team to drive hubby home instead of playing in first ever women's World Series. We've got to go. I got to start my life with Bob. Oh, God. Okay, two more.

Rockford manager assaults small child on a field before start of World Series Glensure. And then, of course, catcher drops ball on World Series deciding throw home. League to investigate suspicious circumstance of pivotal play. Were Gambors involved? Kid sister. They could have had more fun with the headlines. They really could have.

Boy. Well, they could have even had more for when Doddy leaves the team. We could have had a whole newspaper montage about that. Where's Doddy? Like, I want to know more about how did the other catcher do? Like, she was basically a basket case. Oh, poor, that shot to Alice in the dugout. And she's like quivering.

Boy, she did her best. She did her best. Next category is what piece of... Wait. I have to ask you this one. I have to. Unanswerable? Yeah.

Okay. What did May say to the priest? We get that amazing confessional scene where... Doris says, we hear a bang and Doris says that's the second time he's dropped the Bible since she's been in there. And then she comes out of the confessional. And he opens the door and is sweating and looks after her. What do we think all the way May said? Real like flea bag, hot priest energy.

in that moment. Oh, interesting. Maybe that's when they came up with the idea for Fleaback. I mean, she probably just listed all of our escapades of the last couple months, right? Yeah. I wish we got that as a deleted scene. It's a long list. We'll get that in our R-rated 10-episode show.

I'm ready for NC-17. Let's take it up a notch. This is such a heartwarming, nice movie. Let's go gritty. Let's do, like, what they did with the Wilson. Smith with the Fresh Prince remake where they just went like super bizarre dark version of Fresh Prince. I'm ready

for a darker league of their own. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? So you would immediately gravitate to like the Doddy jersey, but I actually think there's only one answer. It's got to be the ball that Doddy drops, right? Oh, that's a great one.

That's almost like the Bill Buckner ball that Charlie Sheen bought. Yeah, you're right. Where it's like this is the actual ball, dotty drops at the end of League of own. It's got to be one of the best sports movie props. Oh, man. Might want to tie the mid in. Maybe it's the catcher's mitt with the ball, a little combo. Do you think you could get Jimmy to write, avoid the clap,

Jimmy Dugan on it? Yeah, you get Tom Hanks to write, avoid the clap, Jimmy Duggan on the ball. That's another great on answer to a question. What other wisdom did Jimmy impart to young children in his autographs? It should have been a coffee table book. But I think the ball is the answer to that, right? That's, yeah, I think that's the pick. I would say runner up. the torn up Jimmy baseball card. The Betty Spaghetti George Spaghetti card.

That would be fun to have. That's a great one. I like it. All right. Who won the movie? I have Gina Davis. Yeah. I mean,

it's gotta be, right? It just has to be. I mean, it is an incredible Tom Hanks' Jimmy performance, but you can't.

It's got to be, it's got to be Gina Davis's Dattie. I do. I think you can make a case from Madonna and Rosie as that duo. They're amazing.

It's a combo. Yeah. You can make a case, maybe. I met like if fantasy was here, he'd go movie nerd on us. And we'd talk about Penny Marshall, female director, all-female sports movie. The casting in this movie is perfect. It becomes this number, you know, one of the top seven domestic box office movies

of that year. And you could say Penny Marshall, but Gina Davis, this, Thelma Louise, back to back. Yeah. Just two of the most important mainstream pop culture movies. of that decade for different reasons. And if you're just talking about from a female empowerment standpoint, I think two of the movies

from that whole generation. Like, Thelman Louise, I was at a movie criticism class day here at Holy Cross, and that was when all those movies are coming out. I remember writing an essay about Thelman Louise. Like, that movie, we haven't done it yet

on the rewatchables, we will at some point. But that movie tapped into a lot of shit that was going on in the country. It became narratives were coming out of that for weeks and weeks and weeks after that. Yeah, that's a classic. Yeah, I think it has to be, it has to be Gina Davis as well.

It is really like an indelible character and an indelible performance. It's an all-timer. Before we go, producer Craig, had not seen this movie. That's right. One of the rare movies that Liz had seen and I hadn't seen going in.

Okay. What were your thoughts? I fucking loved this movie. That's great. It's so good. I have no qualms. It's perfect. I love everything about it.

it's like immediately up there. This movie's so great. I also, you guys didn't even probably think to say this, but like I had no idea this was a true story, you know, half true, but like I didn't know the AAGPBL was real. Yeah. Right.

I bet you a lot of people my age had no idea. We used to go to the National Card Collector Convention a lot. I haven't been in a couple years, but we went out. We did those Grantland photo essays. And one of the years we went, two of the stars from, that league were there with a booth where you could take pictures for them and stuff.

And it was cool. They had all the memorabilia. People, there was like a pretty hot booth. People were going over there and checking it out. And it was a real thing. It's like a real triumph for humanity back in the day that like this worked for a while. It's great that the movie inspires people to like learn more about that, that actual history. Yeah.

I went and read the whole Wikipedia page about it. It was awesome. I also think this is my favorite Tom Hanks character ever. You know, Jimmy's an icon. We did. I should have mentioned. this earlier, when I did the pod with him, he said this was his favorite movie. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Right. That's actually like an amazing statement. That's incredible. Yeah, I think the whole experience with it and the whole thing. So yeah. Wow. And it certainly had an impact. It paved the way for everything that was about to happen for it. Can I ask one question, or not really, it's just a thought I had. And Liz and I both talked about this after the movie end. This is perhaps just times have changed. It was the 40s. Things are different now, but I couldn't get over both of us how when the movie ends, she basically has this, Dottie has this goodbye conversation with Jimmy, extremely brief goodbye. They barely say anything to one another, and they leave. They clearly have a relationship. Then she says goodbye to her sister, and she, like, mentions like Christmas, maybe not, who knows when we see each other again.

And then it cuts to modern day, and she's going to the Hall of Fame thing, and she sees that Jimmy died, oh, okay. And Liz and I were both just shocked at how comfortable and okay. And Liz and I were both just shocked at how comfortable and okay people were back then with just like, all right, see you when I see you. There's no communication. Like, you just leave. And it's like, whatever nowadays. They didn't have find my friends.

They weren't sending each other TikToks. I know. That's my point. I'm like, I can't believe how comfortable people were just like, all right, Jimmy, I'll see you. I'll see you when I see you. And 40 years went by and he died. And she's just like, oh, never talk to him again. Oh, my sister, I may not see her for 10 years.

I like to think they kept in touch, honestly. Yeah, I don't think. I don't know. It blows my mind that that was a time. Or do the head tilt and go, wow, Jimmy made it to 1987? She's like, well, also, I will say, I didn't quite understand why Dottie still didn't give a shit about the league in her older age. Like, I don't know why she was still, like, reluctant to go to this event. Yeah, but that's why they probably should have gotten rid of the first four minutes of the movie.

We didn't even need to know she was reluctant. Like, she should have shown up. We didn't need a backstory. We needed no conflict. with that. She just arrives at the event. We could start. Do you agree that they should have just used the actresses with age makeup? Yeah, I did think she looked good as a cast. She looked like old Gina Davis to me. But yeah, maybe they didn't have the makeup back there. Or they just couldn't pull it off. I don't know.

What a great movie. I forget, was this available for free on streaming? I can't remember. It's on Amazon for free with ads. Right. Okay. There you go. This podcast was produced by Craig Horlebeck. You can hear Mallory. Rubin on the Ringervor's Pod and many of our other stuff. And if you want to read more about the movie, Mal mentioned we did the 25th anniversary about this movie. It's an excellent piece from Katie Baker who loves this movie. But there's a couple good oral histories.

I don't know how to find that ESPNW oral history. I was able to find pieces, but maybe there's some, I'm not smart enough to go. For some reason, it's off ESPN now, but there's a lot of good stuff about this movie. And you can watch some of the deleted scenes, too. some of those on YouTube. All right, Craig, thanks, Mallory. Great to see you as always, and we'll see you next week. So long, milkmeads.

Nag. Mule.