The Rewatchables - 'A Time to Kill' With Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

"All rise!" as The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Wesley Morris revisit the 1996 legal drama 'A Time to Kill,' starring Matthew McConaughey, Samuel L. Jackson, and Sandra Bullock. Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. The rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where you cannot find Wesley Morris because he works for the New York Times. But every once in a while we bring them in, and for a gimmickly court room month, had to fly you across country to be in this. coming up we're going to talk about a time to kill just a fascinating mid-90s pop culture time capsule I can't wait a time to kill is next an innocent child now one may have to protect an outraged father

he's taking justice out of your hand two lawyers fighting for justice do you think he was crazy one you did it from the author of the firm and the client comes a time audiences will always remember A riveting thriller. The best Brisham yet. Go ahead and all this for nothing. Sandra Bullock. Samuel L. Jackson. Matthew McConaughey.

Kevin Stacy. A time to kill. All right. So we're doing courtroom month. Before we talk about a time to kill. Wesley, you've won two poetsers. You've written an incredible amount about movies. You're working on a book called I'm almost done with my book about movies.

The court movie we talked about in the primal fear pod we did. that this was an actual era in the 90s. So a time to kill came out, 96, same year as, as primal fear. And you have all the Grisham books. You have the OJ trial. And we just have this moment with court movies. But they also, we go back to the 60s and the 50s. Yeah, yeah.

But now we don't have them as much. So what happened, in your opinion? Okay. So I think that court TV, we had this era where there was court TV. We had, you know, murder, death, law and order, but the more order, the law part of the order was a part of our lives in this different way. I think that the podcast did not help. I think, you know, true crime documentaries. I also think that there's something about nobody's, who's writing these things now, right?

like what any courtroom thing you'd get now would be ripped from the headlines like it would be something based on a thing that we all needed adjudicated in some way yeah right like the o j simpson trial um became the ryan murphy show and then the edra edelman documentary yeah um i think the other thing that happened i mean this is just i'm just spitballing off the top of my head i also think that this era at the end of the Clinton administration. Oh. 9-11 happened. Just all this real world adjudication, right? Like, in some ways, it was the beginning of our loss of interest in trashy entertainment that we can't also just get on our phones. I think there's, like, a way in which all our social, justice, civic duty, moral outrage. just kind of overwhelmed our ability to just like want entertainment in some way.

So nobody wanted to be entertained in a courtroom that was over to the side. The stakes seemed too high, right? I'm just thinking about all the movies from the 90s that were set in courtrooms. I mean, this would include things like the Rainmaker and Aaron Brockovich. Yeah. You know. Sleepers. Sleepers.

Oh, my God, sleepers. Yeah. But, you know, you couldn't really do those movies now. There's something about the way that the journalist movie has kind of overtaken the courtroom drama. So what's the time to kill in 2003? Other than definitely does not have a white director. What other? That movie doesn't even get made in 2023.

You don't even think it gets made. No, I don't think so. I think because you would have to change, I mean, I guess if you changed the race of most of the people in the movie, Like Matthew McConaughey would have to be Michael B. Jordan. Right. Or someone of that ilk. And you couldn't, I don't know. There's something about the blatancy of this movie.

There's so many things that just wouldn't happen now, right? It couldn't be trashy the way this movie is. It couldn't be as interested in the KKK as this movie is. Even in Roger Ebert's review, he kind of mentions that. like, man, they're kind of, in a weird way, glamorizing this side, like, in a way that I'm a little uncomfortable with. They got a Woody for the KKK. I'm just like, I mean, they're just really into it. And the fact of the matter is there's no Joel Schumacher of, you know, 20, 23.

There's never just like, Joel Schumacher basically made everything from, I think it did the costumes of the sets for the whiz. and, you know, had the lost boys, the St. Elmo's Fire, flatliners. I mean, we'll talk about it. But, like, he was the right director to make a movie that really had no idea what it meant to go to the deep south and investigate the murder, the rape of a black girl by what we, I mean, I guess, clan seedlings. Two redneck scumbags, we could say. murder of the redneck scumbags by the father of that black girl. Well, the Schumacher piece of this, sent him as fire, lost boys,

he's doing music videos, there's an eye candy element to it. But he always, like, gravitated to stars. Yes. To his credit, yes. And to his detriment in some way. And by the way, Atomico was a huge movie.

Yes. That is still on a lot. It's always on streaming services. It used to always be on cable. It turned McConaughey into an A-lister immediately, maybe even like a borderline A-plus Lister. This was the machine. This is one of the last machine-oriented star-making phenomenon. And it's got Sam two years after Pulp Fiction, who is, and I think Leith Weapon 3 is right in between there.

And he's now also a star. Wait, wait. Die hard, right? A die-hard, yeah, yeah. And he's a real star in this movie. And I think both of them are excellent in this movie. I have a really complicated... Tim Jackson is really...

I have a really complicated relationship with this movie because I thought it was awesome in the theater. I didn't know any better. Then as the years passed, like, hey, wait a second. And then by the time you get to, like, the 2010's like, wow, they wouldn't make this movie now. But why is it so compelling still? And why is McConae is so good?

And oh, my God, Sandra Bullock's in this. Yes. At, like, the peak of her powers. And Ashley Judd's in it at the peak of her powers. Listen, I wrote... And evil Kiefer Sutherland at the peak of his powers. Just like, let's just talk about who is in this movie, even briefly. Brenda Fricker.

Brenda Fricker with a Southern accent. Terrible. Yeah, Southern accent. Nobody's got a good Southern accent in this movie. Our guy Oliver Platt. Octavia Spencer. Charles Dutton. Both Sutherlands, actually.

You get a rare double Sutherland. Double Sutherland. Yeah. Donald and Kiefer. Chris Cooper. Kevin Space. Kevin Spacey, Chris Cooper, Kurtwood Smith, not Kurtwood Smith as the head of the KKK. But yes. Oh, I have a lot of thoughts on that.

Well, the big thing with this movie and the reason that I think it hit like it did, other than the Grisham books, we were kind of waiting for, I still really like the firm. As a movie? As a movie. We did. That was one of the first rewatchables. I think we did. But I think people, there was too much crews, people nitpicked a little. I think it's age really nicely.

But this one, I think people are like, this is finally the big Grisham movie with all the right stars told the right way. But the McConaughey piece was, that was the walk away from the theater. Like, whoa, that guy, him crying in the final scene. Oh, yeah. The final courtroom scene was like a real moment. It was a real moment for the 90s. That speech.

It's incredible. So I don't know how we're taxonomizing these movies because it's a courtroom month. and we have to sort of acknowledge that there are tropes in these films, right? There are things they all have to do. In primal fear, we did like nine of them. We have a couple good ones here that we'll get to. They all kind of have this one thing in common,

which is that it always comes down to either one or two things. Sometimes both those things. Like, somebody on the stand flipping the fuck out and then the closing statement. I had the trope in this. a lawyer egging the person on with Spacey and Sam Jackson here. She just keeps nudging, nudging, and then Family Sam gives it to us. The other trope that's in here is the prosecutor finding out who the defendant's attorney

is and doing the evil laugh. Oh, yeah. He got Jake Briggs. It's always good. You always know it's not great for the defense attorney that's happening. But yeah, the speech, how many times have people tried to nail the speech? speech in these movies. The verdict has Newman. That's one of the more interesting things of his

crib, but it's not like this awesome bombastic speech, right? No, no. It's very subtle. He comes, he sits back down. Jack Warden kind of rubs his shoulder. And it's kind of a moment. But for the most part, the speech was what in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, the speech was always the moment. We're going to spoiler their due injustice for all as part of courtroom month. And Pacino, I mean, that's probably the pinnacle. That's like top three of all time.

Is it fair to say this is the best moment of McConaughey's career? As an actor? Yeah. I got to tell you, I remain partial, and I know this is not high praise, but from me to him, it is, the Wolf of Wall Street. I thought you to say how to lose a guy in 10 days. No, but I do love that. The Knicks scene. I love him and Kate Hudson.

They were great together. I mean, come on. Yeah, great together. My favorite McConaughey moment is Wolf of Wall Street. It is the perfect use of him. It's great. He kind of the funny. He's super skinny in it, though.

He's like disorientingly skinny because he just came up Dallas Bires Club. Yeah. But I think that there's something, okay, here's what I'm going to say this. And it's not going to be popular, but I don't care. That's why you're here. I think he is better in small doses. Oh, it's like a supporting actor. If you think about, I mean, at least if I'm laying out my.

my favorite Matthew McConaughey performances. They're all brief. Many of them. Like dazed and confused, Witterson. Yeah. Like, or what's the Christian Bale movie?

Ring of Fire. Hellfire. Rain of Fire. That's what it is. Yeah. How long is he in that movie? Magic Mike. Same thing.

I mean, he is a person who is really good at a, at a walk-on designated hitter. That's his job. The idea that he's like the team captain, I'm less I'm less So you didn't like him in this movie?

He's good He's good It's definitely the kind of performance I remember Okay Can we go back to 1996 for a second? It's time

I was exactly the right age For the introduction Of this person You weren't working yet As a critic or anything No I was like 17 years old And or 18 years old

And wait no I was like 20 19 So you're in college at this point And he was on so many magazine covers before the movie came out. The whole, I really want to talk about this, the mechanism was in full blast. By 96, they knew, they was like, here's this guy's a star, he's coming.

And it wasn't like Julia Roberts, right? That was organic. Right. That was America saying, nope, we vote for this person. And we vote again for this person. This was more like Hollywood saying, listen, I think. We smell a crisis. And no men.

We're running out of men. We've got to start manufacturing something. Cruz's getting a little gamey. Yeah. We don't know what's going to happen with that guy. Not sure about that Brad Pitt guy yet. Yeah. And Brad Pitt wasn't the star yet.

I mean, DiCaprio, yeah. I mean, he was, that hadn't really cracked yet because Titanic hadn't happened. And neither had, I think Romeo and Juliet had come out. He's too young. Like, he never could have been Jake. So they needed somebody who was fully formed as a masculine, virile present, who also hearkened in some way back to Old Hollywood. And he had the legitimate Southern accent, which helped him.

He had a real Southern accent. Sleepers comes out the same year, and they're still trying to make Jason Patrick happen. Yeah, well, poor guy. And it just, he never totally got there. But Jason Patrick had 10 years of not happening. Right. But got a few big at bats. But the thing about McConaughey is he seemed like Paul Newman again, right?

And I remember one of the cracks was, well, I mean, it wasn't a crack. Everybody compared him to Paul Newman. He had the eyes. He had the kind of, he's not as beautiful as Paul Newman, not as perplexingly handsome as Paul Newman. But he was hot in a similar way, right? But the question was, because nobody knew. Yeah. Could this, what, like, he's on all the magazine covers, but nobody's seen him do anything.

And they're like, not to spoil, but the last scene in the courtroom is, but they're very careful. It's like, almost like, like, there's a twist in the crying game. It was like one of those. And the spoiler is that he breaks down during the scene in a really authentic way that, like, you get choked up watching it. It's really a great moment. I saw in the theater. I was with my buddy Hopper in San Francisco. We're about to go to Vegas.

We want to see a movie. We went to go see it together at like four o'clock on a Thursday. And all of a sudden that scene happens. And we're like trying not to look at each other because I'm like, I'm kind of choked up right now. Oh, yeah. But kind of is going there. But to watch somebody get organically choked up like that in a movie, it's pretty rare. We see people try to do it.

But like he almost like breaks down. Like it almost seems like he's got to like stop the filming for a second. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you read something about how that scene happened. But it seemed, it just seemed to. come out of him in this very credible way. And it was the whole movie, I think one of the problems with the movie is that it either,

it's simultaneously too much of him and not enough. Yeah. You know, it's one of those, I mean, I wrote this in my notebook. Like, this is a big blockbuster drama. We don't make those anymore. This movie was not out there trying to win a bunch of Oscars because they gave it to show Joel Schumacher. And they all, I mean, at that point by 1996,

we all know this is not going to be a cat. This is a race car. It's a Grisha movie. It comes out at the height of summer. Loaded cast. And it just is meant to make the person at its center a star and to maybe bolster the credibility and popularity of the two people on its sides. Right? Like Sandra Bullock, who this is post speed.

I think while you were sleeping had come out, but she maybe already filmed this. I don't know. but because while you were sleeping is 95 right yeah um so we've all we all we all with we've begun to vote for her but she's still to me in this movie has that Julia Roberts obviously said no vibe right oh interesting like it wasn't quite a big enough part for Julia right I mean I felt like everything that Sandra Bullock did from you know while you were sleeping to I mean when's the moment when I kind of like stopped thinking this.

I don't remember what the what the, Sandra Blocke. I'll tell you this. Forces in nature. Like Julia Roberts said no. Like all those movies. Like she was the, not market correction, but something else. This is good.

This is like a new theory for me. Who said no? Well, who said no? It's like the, it's like substitute teacher. Like, Jillie can't make it today. Here's Sandra Bullock. I had this as a backup hottest take ever.

Because we have the hottest take segment later. I think this is the best, this is the hottest Sandra Bullock's ever been in movie for me. I think she looks great. I was thinking about that. She's just throwing a hundred miles an hour on this movie. Well, you know what I love about it is everybody looks like themselves still. But sweaty. But sweaty. And solving racism. Yes. And then we solve racism at the end with the barbecue. We're going to get to that. The kids are going to play together. We're going to get to great. We're going to get to it. But I love how fleshy everybody is. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Like nobody seems anorexic. Everybody's got like just juicy skin. It's all you want to put some salt, take a bite. Just, mm, Ashley Judd looks great. Ashley Judd looks great. I mean, the idea that you've got a movie where Matthew McConaughey has to choose between Sandra Bulla at the peak of her sexiness. Yeah.

And Ashley Judd. Who's also thrown at. the high nine is, is like about that, like, crack open, you know, stardom-wise. What a choice. Right. I feel like Ashley Jedd had already kind of happened

because he came out the previous year. Right. Ruby and Paradise had already happened. Wait, had it? Yes, Ruby and Paradise had happened. It was, it was full bloom for her. But this is before double jeopardy and before what's the obvious thing that I just went out of my brain? Double jeopardy? No, before double jeopardy.

There's another one that had this. couple Morgan Freeman once. Kissed the girls. Anyway, she had not become a movie star. She was for me. Right. Well, the one, the Sam piece of this can't be understated because we're two years off with Pulp Fiction, which is a legendary nine-year's performance.

And this is a guy that's been in our lives for a while. And he's really good in this movie. What happened between Pulp Fiction and this, though? I can't remember. I thought it was Die Hard 3, wasn't it? Yeah, probably. All right, that's the thing I'm not remembering. He...

But this is before, by the late 90s, once he gets killed in Deep Blue Sea, we move to a different version of Sam Jackson. Yes. He becomes a little more popcorny. He becomes a little more... Wait, you're paying me in cash, right? He starts doing comic book movies eventually.

He goes Michael Kane. We're still in serious actor, Sam Jackson era. Yeah. Ninety-six. Yeah. And he's really good in this, despite a lot of things, which I guess we're going to talk about.

And then Spacey Yeah Who at this point in 96 He hasn't won the best actor yet That's still three years away But I think But he's got the He's got the usual suspects Oscar

He's got the oh that's right He's got usual suspects He would have just won that too Right Yeah And Kana was in the discussion For best like over Best like adult actor

Yes At least in the conversation now for that Although you watch that You watch this movie And you're like wait This guy's just pure For him. Right.

He doesn't, he's not trying to be serious. Well, with his little, yeah, he's got his little southern accent. Hold on. I'm looking up to Sam. Sam had, God damn, his IMDB might be the longest. Oh, for sure. Pulp Fiction. Oh, kiss of death.

Oh, yes. Wiping his eye. Still haven't done that. I'm rewatched. Dired with a vengeance. Did long kiss good night happen yet? Hard eight, a time to kill, and long kiss good night. Oh.

He did five movies in 19. 96. I would pay a lot of money to hear you and Chris Ryan talk about Long Kiss Goodnight, which I think is one of the best action movies I've ever seen. So, let's hear it. Oh, by the way, this film had two Academy Award winners when they made it. But now it has six because it's Spacey and Brenda Fricker, then McConaughey, Bullock, Chris Cooper, and Octavia Spencer. So six Oscar winners. And then from a McConaughey's standpoint, he doesn't get nominated for this.

Nobody does. Nobody gets nominated for this. But best supporting actor, that was Cuba Gooding wins. We did this during the Ed Norton Primal Fear one. I don't know, Sam. This is Jeffrey Rush. This theater, Jeffrey Rush.

He might have bumped out James Wood. and ghosts of Mississippi if we redid that, I don't know. Oh, we sure. I mean, but that, at the time, that was a talking, that was the thing people were talking about. Yeah. Was like, he was, he was one of the snubbies. And it was like, really?

I believe that was a Jesse Jackson year where Jesse was just like, oh, so we're doing this movie about Megger Ever's assassin, but nothing about the fight for justice of a man who actually was doing something to, like, protect the lives of black people. Let's talk about the, the race. Just go. I'm going to give me you the four. 1996 to now.

27 years have passed. There's just things that this movie does that just would not happen in 2023. Does it almost nullify the movie for you? Or are you able to watch it with like understanding that this was 1996? Sure. But I want to say one thing about, because you know, there's a way that you and I talk about things that would never happen now.

Yeah. And often it's a lament, right? Like, you know, you just, you couldn't make this. There are no stars to make a version of this movie now, right? Like, you wouldn't have, how would you fill this out? Right. Well, the biggest lament is why isn't, like, Carl Lee's family, how are they not bigger characters in this movie?

Well, exactly. And also, Sam Jackson's wife is playing his wife in the movie. And it's like, just there's some meat on that bone over there. and instead we're going in this Donald Sutherland Brenda Fricker direction? We'd rather hang out with all these... All the white people. KKK members.

Yeah. It is like... But I was just saying that this movie is an example of something that would not happen now that I don't think should happen now, right? Yeah. And the problem with this movie... I mean, there's a lot of problems with it.

The thing, number one, who's the screenwriter again? This is a guy who wrote... I never saw his name again. I don't remember having seen it before that, before this movie. I don't, you know, the book is way more complicated. It says it's John Grisham and Akiva Goldsman. Oh, Akiva Goldsman, right. I'm thinking of a different movie.

Akiva did other stuff. Yeah. Akiva Goldsman, you know, he's been around. He's written a lot of things. There's a kind of, you know, formulaic aspect of this movie. The reason to think about it, you know, fondly. as a big blockbuster drama is that it's one of these movies

like now you would, it would be so narrow it would just be about the court case you would never leave. It would be way more self-conscious. Right. I love that like, okay, you're going to make a full, big, you know, chunky, heavy movie

and nobody's going to tell you what you can and cannot do. You have a whole book to play with. Let's see what kind of imagination you demonstrate in terms of where your screenwriterly interests take you. And I kind of love that when we're not

in the courtroom, we're in a house, we're in a bar, we're in, you know, somebody else's bar. There's some like plot shenanigans to like move the mystery of the plot forward. Every 10 minutes, McConaughey's getting tormented by somebody or his house is about to get blown up. Right. He's house almost...

He's in danger constantly. Constant danger. But the problem is my human curiosity, like if you want me to care about these people, the only people in this movie I care about live in Sam Jackson's house. Yeah. The worst thing that could happen to a family that doesn't result in an actual death happens.

One of the kids gets beaten and raped and the patriarch gets sent to prison for murdering in her defense. Yeah. Like, why are we spending time again for an hour and a half? Who cares about the fucking lawyer? Yeah. I don't want to spend time with. But this man, I mean, he is played by Matthew McConaughey, which really matters. But morally, emotionally, dramatically, you only want to be with the family who's living with

this tragedy. And every minute you do not spend with them, it just feels, it feels like a crime is being committed. And to have to spend that time with Kiefer Sutherland. Or how about resolving the McConaughey, Ashley Judd Barrage? I mean. But, you know, I think it's important to point out that this is kind of how Hollywood. would work in the 90s where it's like do we have an awesome part for our lead person that when we can blow out and put on posters and put on talk shows and do the whole thing and that was what they cared

about the most for a movie like this now is why they like these Christian books yeah because they moved along a certain way they were smart you felt like you left each I read all those books in the 90s and you felt you finished a book you're like oh the legal process I feel like I understand a little more I'm really interested in this this and this but when you read the books you always thought of like I remember reading the firm, whatever summer that came out and being like, man, this is such an obvious movie. I wonder who would play Mitch McDeer. You just started thinking about that as you read the book. Tom Cruise.

It was clearly going to be Tom Cruise. And then you read this, you read a time to kill and you're like, oh, that would also be Tom Cruise. It was just Tom Cruise went to your head for each part. Yeah. I mean, I don't think Tom Cruise would have worked. He would not. He was too old. Also, Tom Cruise of the Southern accent.

Yeah. Which to his credit. I don't think he's ever done. So, McConnell. It feels right for the part. I can't think of anybody else who could do it this. Any, any future or current star, I can't think of anybody who would be as convincing in this party.

You can imagine them giving it to Christian Bale or somebody like that. But that also would not work. I got a great casting with it for you later. Oh, boy. But I think the, you know, the thing about this movie is it takes too long to get real. about what's happening. Because for a lot of it, you know, I'm sitting there watching this thinking, okay, these are, these strike me as some very credible southern legal courtroom machinations, right? Like Kevin Spacey seems like a perfectly plausible district attorney.

Yeah. Running for office. Rufus. Yeah. I mean, you know, it makes perfect sense for the judge to operate the way the judge operates. I believe the jury is all weight. And they, you know, everything about the mechanics of the case makes sense. But there's a point at which the movie has clearly chosen. And you can tell because Latanya Richardson Jackson, we don't know who she is. We've never seen this woman before.

We've seen her hug her kid a couple times and look sad in the courtroom. But there's enough closeups there to tell me. that they filmed probably some stuff that just didn't make it into the movie. Because it's over two hours. It's so long that you got to believe it was at least three hours. And that a lot of the stuff that did, there's a phone call that I'm sure Ashley Judd makes after the house gets blown up. Why doesn't she call?

I'm sure she made that call and was like, what the fuck is going on over there? Yeah. And there's got to be a lot of scenes between that community where the Jackson, where Jackson's family lives, Carl Lee and his family, you know, that's a big community. When you see them all come out

and hang out at the barbecue, like, why are they just a bunch of extras? I think it's more likely they didn't film any of those scenes. It's possible. I am giving these people the benefit of the doubt. I think this is just the way movies work back then. I know, I know, but... They're like, how are we going to get people to come see this?

Well, we'll build it around the white lawyer and he's going to love triangle with Sandra Bulk and Ashley Judd. And then at the end, he's going to take his kid to a barbecue. We're going to solve racism. It's just so bad. But I think even at the time, though, that seemed unacceptable to me. As a teenager, I was just like, this is not great.

There's one other piece that I think this movie, at a $40 million budget, made $152 million, which is a decent chunk of coin for 1996. We're coming off the OJ verdict in 1995, which was the first time for a lot of people where we were like, wait, there were. You know, I was in Boston. It's like, wait, there's people that are celebrating that OJ got off. What's going on here? Listen. Yeah. Listen.

I mean, that's basically what Ezra's doc is about. And then this comes a year later. And it's kind of tapping into something. It's this scab on the arm that you're kind of still like, is that a scab? What's going on? And then this movie and it just, we kind of keep going from a pop culture standpoint where people are. Did that work for you? No, but you felt it.

the mid-90s, especially the scenes where it's like all the whites on one side, all the blacks in the other side, and they're screaming at each other. And you're like, oh, it just was very close to the OJ trial, which was really an open wound. You know, one thing to just like stay in the sort of production aspect of this part of what the way we're thinking about this movie, one of the things I hate about movies, especially bad ones. Says someone who loves movies. Says a person who loves movies. I hate crowd sequences.

I hate them. They're always bad. They have to hire extras because you can't. I mean... Right. 300 people. But I don't know what the first or second assistant director is responsible for doing in these sequences, but I'm sure they're involved. But I just never, I rarely believe them.

Where there's just like, okay, you guys over here are just going to shout whatever comes to mind. And you guys over here are going to shout whatever comes to mind. okay action and then you just you don't believe it like they're shouting the same thing for free Carly free Carly and then I don't know what the KKK

white supremacist white racist townspeople are shouting but I the stakes seem simultaneously appropriately high but also hard to believe given

how rigid and generic both sides look Everybody just looked like an extra. And at the same time, because it comes out in the middle of summer, there is this action movie element to the stakes where you know something's going to pop off in the crowd and that violence is going to ensue. And I just feel like the movie was more interested

in the sort of physicalization of the racial tension than in the sort of dramatic explication or exploration of that tension. Well, especially as I've gotten older, now I have kids, and you're watching it from a different lens. You're like, well, you know, this is a what would I do movie.

You watch Carl Lee, it's like, whoa, whoa. Whoa, right. He's, okay, he's getting justice for his daughter. What would I do? Most people are like, if anyone did anything to my kids, I would kill them? But it's like, would you? And then you watch him doing it,

and you're completely on his side. He's about to commit a double murder. but becoming a dad watching that part I just thought way more about putting myself in that shoes versus like when I was in my mid-20s I'm just in McConaughey's shoes right it's like oh there's the lawyer I'm just thinking like him I mean this becomes the point of the movie but it's kind of too late right

because nobody's been thoughtful about this at all except the guy whose life is on the line in terms of coming out with some kind of defense to get him to get him free. Roger Ebert, three stars. Oh, Roger. I remember this review, actually.

I was absorbed by a time to kill and found the performances strong and convincing, especially the work by Samuel Jackson and Matthew McConaughey. This is the best of the film version of the Grisham novels, I think, and it's been directed with skill by Joel Schumacher. Roger. That is maybe the, I'm sure Joel Schumacher framed that. She was like, thanks. Oh, my God.

A nice review. I mean, San Elmo's Fire was a fucking banger. I'll still defend Joel to the death on that one. You can do it. Go on. Listen. You break my heart, Billy. When you're in our age area, that man is responsible for a lot of popcorn movies.

A lot of pleasure. The Lost Boys doesn't really hold up as a movie. But if you were there at the time, it was really exciting. What were the vampires going to do? His interest in movie stars. Well, you know I love 8mmeter. Right. Oh, no.

Come on. We already did that. I'm rewatchable. I'm not going to apologize either. Well, okay. 8mmeter's great. We're going to take a break and come back to the categories. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

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Most rewatchable scene. Okay. Charles S. Dutton, we didn't mention. We did not talk about Charles who was like hot at that moment. He was on, I think Rock, Rock was over at that point, the most underrated TV show.

Yeah. Rock. I like when he arrests the two guys. And then it goes to Jake finding out from Chris Cooper what happened. It's just a, it's a good setup. Yeah.

But I like, that's happened a few times where somebody does something horrible at the being in the movie and then they end up at some bar in the South and the sheriff shows up. It's a little bit of a truth. Yeah, I like that.

But the guys don't know what's going on. Nikki Kat is one of the racists. Oh, yeah. And the other one was that, that, Doug, what's his name? The, hold on, I have it written down. Doug. Doug Hutchinson. He was the guy, he was like in his 50s and he married the 18-year-old actress.

Remember this all? No. I don't remember. I'm going on a tangent. Next rewatchable scene. I mean, Sam shoots everybody. I just wrote down. It's pretty watchable.

Yeah. As for an action scene, it's pretty good. It's a little shameless. Well, I mean, he comes out of the shadows. I actually think this movie... I like when people go in the night before. Oh, yeah. We're like, oh, boy, this isn't going to be good.

This movie probably has more in common with JFK than I think anybody would be able to talk about at the time. Yeah. But it's just as trashy. It is... It's not as sophisticated, ideologically, as JFK. Like, there's all this talk about the New South, but nobody in the movie seems to really know what that means. But that basically means is, we have other ways of humiliating black people.

And y'all out here rape it and beating up black girls. That's the Old South. The New South works in this other way. Right. And Kevin Spacey and, you know, that part of the system is the face of the so-called New South in this movie. I have the first trial scene before they picked the jury when, St. J. Jeter Bull comes in

with her motion. Kiefer side-eyes her with the evil Kiefer look. She's like, oh, this is good. This is going to right direction. Carl Lee going to see Chris Cooper after he shot him. It's good stuff.

It's always going to get me. Carl Lee turned into the table on the Reverend in the ASAP. Yes. Whereas like, I always like that. The second, the McConae Bullock scenes

are good in this movie, but the second scene when they're at lunch and it gets a little flirty and she walks off and I just think they do good work together. Just that one scene. They're going back to the hotel. Well, I'm not talking about that.

I'm just talking about the courtship of getting her in the case. Right. That was good. That's good. I just wrote down, I always love jury selection in any movie or TV show.

Give me a jury selection. Should that just be a show, jury selection? I mean, you know, are you crossing out four, 18? 25. That guy's wearing a jet shirt. He's out. Cross him off.

I mean, I, did you, are you watching jury duty the show? I haven't watched it, but my wife and daughter loved it. It's really good. Yeah. And part of what's so good about it is the thing about the reason you love jury selection is that it's like speed dating for people you don't want in your life. Right. But mixed in with some real terrible morality.

Right. I mean, the rationale for getting rid of the people on the jury is like a separate apparatus that also seems to me to be very American. Yeah. Right? Like, what is the basis upon which we can rig this thing to go our way? But we're each going to take turns trying to rig it? Yeah.

It's just, it's so wild that that's how we do it. Nobody gets to protect anyone. No. No. I'm going to keep four, like an expansion draft. Number four is on my team. You can't touch. But it's the best game of humanity that you're ever going to play. Yeah.

because it's real and there are stakes. Chris Cooper, a.k. Deputy Looney on the stand. I got a little girl. Somebody rapes her. He's a dead dog. I blow him away just like Carly did. Objection, Your Honor.

Do you think the jury should convict Carl Lee Haley? Don't answer that question, Deputy. He's a hero. You turn him loose. Jury will disregard. You turn him loose. Your Honor, you silence the witness. Turn him loose.

It's a great scene. You turn them loose. I mean, the key with court removes is you need like three scenes like that. Where it's like, oh, this is happening. Yeah, if you can come up with, this movie has one, two. It's got two plus, I mean, it's just got two really good ones, right? I think it has three because we didn't talk about Carl Lee on the stand. Yes, they deserve to die and hope to burn it out.

Right. Everyone goes nuts. But that's the classic Sam Jackson. And then the McCannie's speech. Right. But that's not a witness stand. True, good point. Good point.

Carly's speech to Jake in the jail, just good, Sam Jackson. How a black man ever going to get a fair trial with the enemy on the bench in the jury box? My life in white hands. You, Jake, that's how. You my secret weapon because you won the bad guys. Jake's final summation, which we talked about in the verdict. the verdict itself for most rewatchable.

I think the McCona... For me, it's the McConaughey final summation. It's just really good. I think it's the best moment in his career. I think I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think the scene

with Samuel L. Jackson and Matthew McConaughey in the cell... When he gives him this speech. Where, you know, in all of these movies, well, a lot of these movies, there is a kind of pre-chorus to the big moment.

Yeah. A few good men. It's the scene where they sit around and strategize about what they're going to do to Jack Nicholson when they get him in the courtroom. And it's kind of a daring thing because you're kind of telling the audience what you're going to do, then you've got to deliver. It's the rehearsal almost. Right. Yeah. And so, I mean, but do we need to see a training sequence in a courtroom movie?

I guess maybe we do because then it pays off. Because we're dumb. We need to kind of know what's happening. We don't fully understand it. But that scene between McConaughey and Jackson in the jail cell. is surprising because it's the only moment in the movie where you hear a black person express their understanding of what the stakes are. Right?

The idea that you've got this black guy basically saying, I know you think you're a good white person. You might even be a good liberal white person, although, you know, the scenes between him and Sarah Bollock, who's conveniently from Massachusetts. Growler. drives her car down there, by the way. What a wonderful white lady thing to be able to do, huh?

She's basically like that, Will Spins. She's like bagger vance for courtroom dramas. She just kind of pops in. She shows up. In her 63 portion. Here I am. It's kind of wild. I'll work for free.

I'm hot. You know, I take back when I said about the, you know, the privilege of white ladies. Because, again, at some point, she pays for it and gets beat up. Yeah. But the idea that this is a movie that you got to watch. watching thinking the whole time if you were so inclined that Matthew McCann, Jake Briggins, is a, he's a good white person because we have shown you all these shitty white people. And he's a good guy. He is actually risking his family and it's like, you heard Brenda Fricker.

You put it all in the line. Yeah, he killed Brenner Fricker's husband. I mean, got my, got your house burned down. Ruining your marriage. But Sam Jackson's like, okay, you might have done all that. Yeah. But you ain't no different from Kiefer Sutherland. Right. you're no different from the dudes that did all that shitty stuff to my daughter. I think that Matthew McConaughey receiving that information

and the clarity and like conviction of Sam Jackson's giving it to him. Yeah. He like McConaughey hears that and I think the thing that makes your voted, the thing you're voting for is being like the most rewatchable scene. What makes it so good

is the scene before it. You're right. Packaged them together. I think you're right. Put them together. What's age the best? Sweaty, Mississippi. We don't get to go to the South enough in movies like this. And the right kind of,

if they're done correctly, you feel sweaty during certain scenes. And I thought they did a good job of that. I miss reality. We mentioned Ashley Judd and Sandra Boeck. Kiefer's just an incredible bad guy. Yeah. He's always going forward.

He's basically Lieutenant Kendrick, but he's Lieutenant KK. Kendrick. In this. How about our guy Oliver Platt? Oh, yeah. You want to have the Oliver Platt conversation now? Where are we ever going to have it again?

It's hot on the bear right now. I mean, Oliver Platt, this will tell you maybe more than you need to know about me. Oliver Platt of all the flatliners was my favorite. Oh. I loved. Of the five of them, he was, there's just something about his like

physical stature. He just seems, he's just big and an imposing but sweet. He's never played, I mean, I don't recall him ever playing a true villain. And there's something kind of... Can I give you a market correction with him?

Oh, yes. Alfred Molina. Oh! If Oliver Platt's the Boogie Nights kind of drug deal guy, instead of Alfred Molina, is his career any different? That's a great question.

That's a great question. they were on each other's corner there for a few years. Yeah, that's a good one. He's one of those, like he's in Chef, which we did in the rewatchables. He's just great in chef. He's great in the bear. He is one of those people. The IMDB doesn't match up my excitement when he pops into something I'm watching.

I'm like, oh, Oliver Platt's in this. I love Oliver Platt. I don't know what his training is, but he definitely has something. He's got it in this movie too. We're like, you can tell, I mean, I'm going to, it'll probably wrong about this. But, like, there's something kind of trained about him where that he has done. all his homework before he gets to the set and can just like inhabit a character

he knows his lines and he's just so spontaneous with Sandra Bullock that scene. Yeah, there's a horniness that he brings to the table that I think he doesn't seem like a sex or something. No. But he has a way of like vibing with yeah. I would definitely get what Oliver Platt.

Morewood's age the best. You're just going to let it go. You're not going to touch it. Moving on. Hot female characters going by their last name. Oh, that seems like a real Bill turn on. Roark. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I dated somebody once who her last name was what everybody called there and I was, I didn't kind of like it. I don't know what that says about me. Anybody in my life where that's true? It's more approachable. How about this for what's age the best?

Anthony healed as the doctor. Oh, yes. We left him out. Running it back from Sonson-Lams. I mean, in the same part, basically. Basically the same part. Everybody, this is the great thing about old Holly. Right. Like, I mean, old Hollywood meaning like 25 years ago. Yeah. Everybody who watched that movie would have known when that guy showed up that he was no good. Right. Oh, he's the Smarmy doctor. Smarmy doctor.

Everybody saw him in Silence of the Lambs. They would have known. This guy, it's going to be bad. John Deal from Miami Vice. Oh. One of my favorite TV shows ever. Yeah. Yeah.

As one of the good KKK guys. He's in the KKK. but he's got a heart of gold. Well, they keep... He's looking out for Sandra Bullock. He doesn't want her to die. He's making the calls, telling everybody like, yeah.

It's like the good Nazi and victory, Max von Saito. I think when they have the one good guy who's like, also, but you weren't in the KKK. You can't really be a good guy. You put that bed sheet on. But I will say, they also, they cast a sexy person to also be the good K, this is how

the movies fuck you up. Yeah. You are watching all these, like, sexy racists for two hours, and you don't know what to do. Well, this I did not know. And it came up in the research. And I'm putting in what's age the best

because it's too good for half-fessional research. McConae is dating Ashley Judd when they start filming the movie. What? As the movie goes along, he falls for Sandra Bullock and dumps Ashley Judd for Sandra Bullock. Yeah. What? Yeah.

No. And then they date for the next two years. Stop it. The sparks were flying on the set. Wait. So the movie mirrors what actually happened in real life. Yeah. This is the thing that happened.

Wait, Bill, what? Yeah. I was kind of paying attention to this stuff at the time. I did not know this. I didn't know it either. Really? Really? Yeah.

Ashley out. Sandra Bullkin and they dated, they kept it really stealth because she's very stealth. She's good. She's good. Yeah, we have no idea how many people. But yeah, Herman McConae and still buddies. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. Any other, what's age of best for you? I got to say there's something about the lawyers who just sit in the office and just wait for somebody to come in.

Right? Like, it's an anticipation or like they come in and there's a secretary who's like, this is what we got going on. This is the oldest trick in the movie book. So you don't think this exists in real life anymore? I don't, I'm not a lawyer.

I don't know what those offices are like, God forbid, I should ever personally find out. But in the movies, there's always a, like, a woman to be the welcome met. You know, like, here's what we got going on when you come into this office. Or I'm going to barge in and tell you who's ready to get you a cup of coffee? That is a timeless gig or timeless gimmick, and I will watch it till the end of the movies. Big Gahuna Burger Award, best use of food and drink. Barbecue at the end.

I could have spent like two more minutes there. What are you guys making? The Crodats. Oh, the Crodads are good, too. The giant bowl of untouched Crawdats. Yeah. Dennett Thieves, Benihano, where it's scene stealing location. The courtroom in this is great.

The two-deck courtroom. I'm a big two-deck courtroom courtroom for courtroom movie month and just court movies in general. I like when you have the audience in the top. But Bill, here's my thing about the double-decker courtroom in the South. All it says to me is, Y'all know who's supposed to be up there. Oh, I didn't even think of that. Oh, yeah.

See, now I'm recanting. Super segregation. It looks good, though. But, I mean, it looks good. They've been around for a while. They, listen, they're in New England. I just thought they're trying to create more people in there. But it always, like, typically the black people would have sat up there if they were even allowed in the court.

Great shot order award for most cinematic shot. Hmm. Mm-hmm. In a Joel Schumacher movie, a little less. Well, the two guys, he kills the two dudes. Mm-hmm. And they go overhead shot. but they're on the seal, the patriotic seal?

Yes. It's good. It's well done. You got me. I'll take it. What's age the worst? Brenda Fricker's southern accent. Wow. Why? Why did we do this? Why do we do it? Why did we do it? So many actresses.

For people listening who don't know, she's Irish? She's Irish. She's from Ireland. She's from Ireland. Has a kick-ass Irish accent? Yes, great Irish accent. And now we're in Mississippi with Brenda? I don't know.

Nobody asked for. Didn't understand that at all. This was before the big boom of people doing that too. So she probably was doing work that like was, wasn't not being frequently done by, by our friends from the UK. What's age to worst? I just wrote more black characters,

question mark. Yeah. White director doing this movie, question mark. Not this white director for sure. Kevin Spacey, I would say he's aged pretty poorly. I'm not blaming him for the movie.

I've learned how to watch movies and not think about current stuff, but just in general, the Kevin Spacey experience. He's also not even good at it. Like, he's satisfyingly, like, you know, mustache twirling. He's no James Mason. Jesus, no. How about drunk Donald Sutherland? What's he trying to do in this movie?

Talk about it. We're going to beat a Brenda Fricker's southern accent and not his. I'm pro Donald Sutherland. This is not like the best version of Donald Sutherland. And I wish there were other directions I think they could have gone. There are so many other people. I don't know who they offered this part to. Like, just like Richard Harris, Peter O'Toole, you know, Anthony Hopkins.

Oh, go in that direction. Right. Yeah, just like get a great British actor to just like really slouch his way through the part and be drunk. Or get an awesome Southern actor who's actually from somewhere down there. I mean, I'm just trying to think who that could have been. Because you need like an emiridist, you need an actor emeritus for that. I think they were excited that Kiefer and Donald were in the same movie. That was a piece ofless.

What's age the worst. The dynamite diffusing scene is just ridiculous. It's just throws it up toward the tree and it blows up. It's like, what is this, McGuiver? If only. And then this is just the what's age the best for me or what's age the worst. Drunk Jake is with drunk Sandra Bullock and his wife's away. Now they are, they are, I don't know if they're on a break, but there's clearly tension.

I'm sorry, something's going down at some point. They're at least going out on the couch for like 20 minutes. Before he's a stop, stop, stop, we have to stop. He sits next to her on the bed. They're just ready to do it. They're just ready to do it. You're not going to stay with your wife. Just go. Go throw work.

But, you know, classic Hollywood, he cannot, he could not have done it. Because then it's a different movie. And you're not rooting for him. Well, not only that, but it's just a different movie because people's moral right. Radars would have just flipped out. Here's how I look at this stuff, though. It's like he didn't cheat, but he cheated.

Yeah, but for a... It's he basically, my wife calls this mental cheating. Not with me, but just been a couple, like, maybe friends in the periphery. Sure, sure. I don't think they cheated, but there was some definitely mental adultery happening. And I was like, how mental adultery is a good way to put it. I just wish the movies in some way, well, I mean, this was made in 96. We are not having the conversations.

We weren't having the conversations then we were having now about. you know, the parameters of what a marriage is. Yeah. But I don't know. This just seems like it was like I felt that tension and was just like, y'all need to just do it. The Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character was actually good at his job. A little bonus a word named after Adrian Grenier and Entourage. Let's go.

Lucian, so you're his mentor. You've been kicked out of the courtroom. You give terrible advice. And you're one way you're going to help is you're going to bring this doctor in who's got a statutory rape charge for the early 60s. Thanks for the help, Lucian.

This is the worst mentor of all time. We need to talk about Lucian. He's just a bad character. We know what was going on between the DA and Lucian. Oh, what was going on? He's too handsome. Lucian is the young guy with the glasses, right?

No, Lucian is Donald Sutherland. Oh, my God, Lucian. Oh, I like where you're going to be. you were going with that though. That guy, there's Kevin Spacey's character has an intern who's working with him. He doesn't know anything about anything. Just pretty for no reason, except, you know. I like where

you went there. No, I'm talking about Lucian. It's the worst. Also, he's the least sort of supposed to be the lynchpin of McConaughey's sense of how to be a lawyer. They make him seem like he's Phil Jackson and he's like just drunk idiot Phil Jackson. This is not good. Bad job. The Butch's girlfriend

Award, weak link of the film. I mean, so many ways to go here. but, uh, lots. Poor Roark. So what's, what's the point of her in this movie? She comes in,

drives in on her, on her Dylan McKay Porsche, um, just floating around town, hot shit, pissing off the KKK, everybody else, working for zero money on this court case,

goes down the road with this married guy, that's going badly. And then for all her troubles, gets tied to a tree and basically left to die, but doesn't die. And what happens? We see her one more time at the end where it's like, he got off

and she's got like a bruised face in the hospital. Octavia Spencer's like, hey, aren't you happy that this exciting thing happened to car? Yeah. And our last side of Roark is just her like, she seems kind of happy, but then also like, man, my whole life has been ruined

and I'm going to be in therapy for 20 years. But cool, he got off? Yeah. Very odd. Strange. I bet you anything. I don't know. There's like three scenes missing with her.

I was going to say, I think this was audience tested in some way. They were like, get Rorocker out here. And they just like, no, she's a homewrecker. Right. Get her out. Nope, can't do it. It's tough. Ron Burgundy flew to wear best time for a pee break.

Basically any Lucian scene. And he's talking to Donald Sutherland and just go get some coffee. Do you like the title for this movie? Was there a better title? a time to kill. I feel like this should probably have been named after the town, right? The better movie would have really been about what life was like in this town. Because if you think about it, this is one of the rare movies where something happens in a place.

And the people tasked with fixing it, solving it, everything, they all live there, except one character who's not a major character. Right. Right. Everybody lives in this town. Everybody knows everybody. That's the power of Matthew of Samuel Jackson's speech to him before the closing statement. Right. Which is you've been in this town all this time. Yeah. And you've never once come to see me. You don't even know where I live. Right. I feel like the movie is about the town. Kyle says that to me all the time. But does. Have you been to Kyle's house? No, Kyle's like you don't come to the frolic room. You don't come to my side of town and have drinks with me. Kyle's pretty. I mean, you need to fix that bill. Best quote, yes, they deserve to die and I hope they're burning hell. Do you think they deserve to die, Mr. Heddy? Answer the question. Collie, don't deserve to die.

Yes, they deserve to die and I hope they burn in hell. Pretty tough to top. Can't beat that. Hottest take a word, I kind of gave it already. I think it's really interesting that my two favorite McConaughey performances ever both happened before he was famous. Days are confused in this. because he's filming this, he's not famous yet.

Right, right. And if you just said coming out of this movie, and I feel the same way about Ed Norton and Primal Fear, which is so interesting, they came out the same year, two really hard parts, everybody wanted them, and they both get them, and they both knock them out of the park. And you just said, oh, my God, what's McConae's next 10 years going to look like?

Yeah. And you go to IMDB, and you look at it. It's not great. It turns into EdTV in like three years. Oh, God, that's three years. And then we're in a rom-coms. Wow, that's three years later. We have contact when he has less chemistry with Jody Foster than maybe anyone's ever had with Jody Foster.

It's true. And I'll give you the list. But I do like contact is growing up. I know. I know you like it. He shows up. Contact's bad. This is a bad take from you.

It takes a nosed-dye. It's a bad movie. Another movie when he's got a small part. He's in contact. He's in Amistad. he's in Ed TV he's in U-571 whatever that one was

the beginning of the I don't know what was wasn't that didn't he get arrested for the naked bongo playing around there might have been some naked bongos he never has the payoff from this movie I guess it was contact but contact whatever

all of a sudden he's in the wedding planner frailty how to lose a guy in 10 days Sahara and by 05 is in two for the money a movie that Chris Ryan and I love and he's then all of a sudden we have the failure

Is that the Pacino movie? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Then we're in the mid-2000s with Philadelphia launch and we are Marshall and it's just kind of the moment's gone. It's 10 years. Yeah. I mean, that, what does that say to you about this person?

I think luck is so important. But what it really says to me is we had, you know, like we always lived to shoehorn NBA references into this podcast. Yes. To the chagrin of at least some people listen to it. Sometimes there's just so much talent. I think this is like the absolute A-PRA. for just like young,

good-looking white actors who had good careers. He's, think of all the people who's competing, all the parts he didn't get. Plus, Will Smith. Well, plus, but I'm saying he's going against Damon Affleck. Yep. For how many parts?

Damon Affleck. All of them. Decaprio. Decaprio. Mark Wahlberg starts creeping in there. Yep. River, not River Phoenix. Keanu Reeves is in there.

Spacey's grabbing some older parts, but the young up-and-comer guys, he also This was the era He's Have you read Green Lights What's that

His memoir? No Should I It's great I mean he's a It was the bestseller For a reason Like it is

It is one of the best Examples Of that sort of thing That I've ever read I think that There's something About McConaughey He just wasn't hungry

Right His hungers He was like An athlete He just didn't won it the way those other people won it. He didn't want to be finals MVP. He didn't. He's Vince Carter. You know, I think a lot about, do you know, Guy al-Monfee,

the tennis player? Yeah. The Guy on Monfeet is famous for just saying, like, things like, I'm happy to be number five in the world. Venus Gerolitis was like that. Right. I just want to have a great life and party and have sex with a little bit. I don't need the pressure. Curios. Nick Curios is a little bit like this. He's like, I already have proven to myself that I am great. I don't need these titles. Namedis talk. Well, but that's different. Right.

Osaka has never made a claim to not wanting to be ambitious. It's that's, she's complicated. But these other guys are pretty simple. She doesn't want to be famous, but she also has a sweet green salad. Which I tried two years, three years ago. It was pretty good. Pretty good. I don't know.

I think there's something about him, McConaughey, that just, he simultaneously seems embarrassed to me by what. what fame can do and entails. Yeah. I think whatever happened with him. Or he was just stoned all the time. Or I think, you know, his default nature is maybe being stoned, wanting to be naked, you know, hanging out. Look at what a fixture he is in Austin and the weight in which he is a fixture.

He's a little bit of a kook in a good way. Also, we didn't mention in that boom, Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt. We didn't mention. Mm-hmm. And there was one other, and now I forgot. But it was just for whatever reason, in the mid-late 90s, we just had a shitload of them. And then you'd look at people like, oh, Brennan Frazier?

Travolta comes back? Yeah. But I'm saying people, they're like between the age of like 28 and 36. Brandon Frazier's another one. But we talked to when we did the school test pod about like Randall Battenkoff. Oh, Randall Battenkoff. Who was just like, that's it. He just didn't make it because he's competing against all these other people.

So I wonder if that's a piece of this with McCona. Casting what ifs, we're going to do right after this break. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viori, I got to say, total game changer, been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Viori. Sunday performance joggers that they have, it's made with four-way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own.

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Let's hear it. It's not the hottest take, but it's important to bring this up because you can see it. and you can see it in the... Hair. I'm so glad you brought this up. Hair. It seems wild to bring this up now, given all the ways in which we'll never know

when people are losing hair, when people are like dealing with skin problems. We'll never know that anymore. But in 1996, you could know because you could see it. And one of the conversations around Matthew McConaughey at the time was, what are we going to do about this guy's hair? is a real question. I think this is a hottest take.

And I think in a way... This was a John Cusack issue, too. This person's natural personality, not really wanting to do all of that grueling work to stay famous, and actually having this thing that was beyond his control with his hair line, which is insane to say,

but is actually true. I truly believe... It's a real thing. I'm with you. If he was not losing his hair, I actually think his career would have been, it would have been different. John Cusack.

In some way. All of a sudden, he showed up for Con Harry. It had a hair. Yeah. I mean, these people, I mean, I would love to hear a conversation among these guys if they could, if they could have it.

You know, Nicholas Cage, John Cusack. Nick Cage, another one. All of a sudden. Yeah. That's good. That's good one. I like that.

Casting what ifs. Joel Schumacher. Schumacher. Joel Schumacher, can't speak anymore, originally offered the lead role to Val Kilmer. Not surprised. Because they were doing Batman Forever and Kilmer declined. Huh.

Why do you say no? Because he's fucking weirdo. I think this is... I can totally see him doing it. And he would have been pretty good. I don't... I think we have too much Val Kilmer. I think one of the reasons this movie worked is I have no McConae history

when I'm watching Southern Days to Confused. That's true. He also could have good taste, Bill. And just would have thought this movie was just... Add. Possible. You know what else turned it down? Paul Newman.

They wanted to play Lucy in this Donald Southern character and he found the film's message distaste. Good taste. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. It's good taste. This movie, we have not talked enough about how trashy this movie is. We hit it. Kevin Kostern.

Kevin Koster was considered for Jake. I can see it. And he wanted complete control of the project. And John Grisham is like, fucking. I'm John Grisham. Speaking of hair. Yeah, another hair guy. Another hair guy. Woody Harrison wanted to play Jake.

Oh my God, another one. Another hair guy. But at least, you know, Woody Harrelson was, he, he has owned it in a way. Grisham vetoed that one. Hmm. Oh, really? Yeah. Huh.

Okay. And then the only other one was Bruce Stern was the original choice for the judge. Oh, I can, Judge News? Yeah. Judge News. Judge News. Played by Patrick McGuhan, who's one of our candidates. for Best That Guy, a.k. the Joey Pants Award.

We also have John Deal, who we mentioned. We have Anthony Heald, who I think is Anthony Heald. There's that guy from the verdict who's either the NAAC guy or the Reverend. Joe Seneca. Who was in the verdict. He was the guy they brought in who just kept testifying. Yes. So we know his name?

Joe Seneca. All right. So he doesn't count. He does count because I'm probably the only person who knows. Okay, fair. I was going to say Patrick McGu-Guhan. I didn't know what his name. For sure.

And then, I'm sorry, Sam Jackson's wife, Latanya. I don't think people even knew that was Sam Jackson's wife back then, right? I don't, I definitely didn't know. And then she, she's also not in any movies, really. Well, she just crushed it in to kill the, what was the? Oh, to kill him, the Arrynneux. The Sorkman. The Sorkin-Mockenberg.

Yeah, yeah. She's a wonderful actress. This is a good theater director, too. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubeneck Partridge overacting Award. Oh, where do we even start? I just put question marks. Usually I have a favorite. Everybody's kind of going for it.

I'm going to go with Donald Sutherland, though, if I had to guess. I'm not sure what he's doing. I'm going to go with Kiefer. Okay, great. Kiefer. So both Sutherland. We'll give it to the Sutherland family. We don't give this award out very much.

The Judd Nelson, New Jack City, I'm in the wrong movie award, goes to Sandra Bullock. Yes, yes! She's like, was this a rom-com? Like, no, actually, you're going to get tied to a trade in. almost killed. Wait, what? I thought.

It's definitely her. Dan Waiter's a word, Sam's not eligible, Kiefer's not eligible. Best he check. Chris Cooper. He's in like three scenes. He's fucking great.

Easy. This is the easiest. This is a relief actually. You turn this man loose. But also, you know, he's one of those people. He, Lone Star was 96. He had great.

I mean, this was the beginning of like the Chris Cooper. Peking with American Beauty. And I feel like there's an intensity that he's got that you don't really know is in him. So that when he has a moment like that, you're just like, okay. Yeah, there we go. Listen to what this man has to say. Recasting couch.

Throwing Nicholson in the Donald Southernland part just for fun. Okay. Drunk Southern Jack Nicholson, just being weird. Having a history with Brenda Fricker, three scenes. Here's five million bucks. But you make Brenda Fricker Sally Field. Oh, see, now we're talking. This is, there's so many other directions this movie could have gone on.

Yeah, where's Sally Field? She's two years off a gump. You throw her in there. That's great. It's a richer movie in a lot of ways. Or Shirley McLean? Shirley McLean, but she wouldn't have done it. Half-ass internet research.

Matthew McConae auditioned for Freddie Lee Cobb, one of the guys who gets killed. Wanted to be Jake and, lobbied hard with Joel Schumacher and the rest was history. The movie plot came from 1984. John Grisham had said he witnessed the harrowing testimony of a 12-year-old rape victim and kind of went down the road

of what would happen if the girl's father killed the assailants and that was how he ended up doing it time to kill, which was, I think, the first book he wrote. And then he ended up, I think he did that. And then all of a sudden it was like Pelican Brief, the firm. I mean, one thing about John Grisham, great ideas. Like Pelican Brief is like an incredible idea for a movie and a book. Great idea.

I mean, the thing to me is this, I hate for our conversation to once again take the turn into like how we know the movies are in trouble. Yeah. But there's so many more John Grisham books. Right. Why have we just given up or just adapt to the John Grisham books? Great. There's so many. I think he might be a pain in the ass with the adaptations.

I think that's part of it. Well, I mean, oh, well. Yeah. They're there. Y'all can figure it out. Those are rich movie books. Apparently Sutherland wanted Lucian to be way more of a drunk and Schumacher vetoed it, which is why we ended up in No Man's Land.

Oh, boy. And then McConaughey and Nikki Kat, who was one of the two rapists slash got killed guys, both in dazed and confused. Yeah. I love Nikki Cat. Apex Mountain. What is it for McConae, in your opinion? Is it winning the Oscar for Dallas Byers Club and then heading toward the true detective Wolfel Wall Street kind of part of his career? I think it is. You know, the Magic Mike Wolfel Wall Street. hanging out with Lance Armstrong. True detective. Yep. Yep. Sam Jackson. It's not this, but we're kind of in the general vicinity of it. It's probably Jackie Brown.

Yeah. Yeah, it's... Jackie Brown's 97. It's a year later. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's probably... Great run by him. Yep.

Grisham... I mean... It's around here. Like, think about this. 93 to 97? Yeah, he's got like five film adaptations and he's just... No, 96. When is Pelican Brief?

Isn't that 96, too? That was earlier. That was like 90. I think that was senior as the firm. That was 93. 93. Okay. Yeah. So he's got a good.

three years. Nice one name. This is him. Sandra Bullock. Not yet. No. Because what's after this? Honestly, she wins the Oscar for the blind side.

That's quite an apex. That is testament to a great career. She wins the Oscar for a TV movie. From your mouth to my ears, Bill. Is that the first time that's ever happened? No. Come on. You know what?

So many Oscar-winning TV movies. Shockingly affected. movie. Yeah, it works for some people. It just makes me mad. I'm aware. We've talked about it. We haven't done it in the rewatchables yet, but I'm going to make you do it with me when we do it. I love her. I've come to

also a testament to her too. I did not believe her. I didn't believe in her. She didn't she annoyed me. All I saw when I saw her was what I said before is that Julia Roberts just said no. And Julia Roberts couldn't do everything.

thing and there was so much for so many people wanted Julia Roberts to be doing things and so that was a really great time of like you can't get into it you can't get into this movie because all the tickets are sold out. Yeah. You don't see this other movie. That was Sandra Bullock. She was she got all the Julia Roberts

spillover. I'm speculating. I could be wrong. I don't know. At some point they flip though. At some point I wrote a thing I remember for I think it was for Grantland where I was talking about how crazy her career is because she made rom-coms like 20 years apart. I was like she's Nolan Ryan. Yeah. Yeah.

Like this is like her. Now you would say LeBron James because LeBron's now in year 21. But like what she was doing where in an industry where you're kind of out after six, seven years or you're like Julia Roberts where going to your second decade, now you have to audible to this different thing. And she was basically making the same movies that she had made in the 90s. It didn't matter. You never got a sense with her. trying to remember what the moment was for me where I was like, you know what, Uncle. Right. You win.

Yeah, you win. I can't. I can't, this cannot be denied. Even when I hate the movie, I kind of see, it was, it was, uh, Miss Congenia. Hmm. Good movie. Not a Julia Roberts movie at all. There's something about her to find, she, she figured out a way to be not a cute little girl next door who's got a couple lines and a badly

written screenplay that really make you you know like this person she figured out how to be a movie star while also being a movie star which you don't nobody's ever going to get a chance to do that again right you got all this um

tailwind from another person's discards right yeah and it's an opportunity and people like you people are paying money to watch you not be Julia Roberts I And I just, like, I just feel like she really.

I had season tickets from, I barely seduced. I had season tickets from Love Potion number nine on. Oh, boy. Oh, then you were in, you were in early. I was in early when she was in, she's in the vanishing. Yo, she's good in that. She's in speed. Okay.

People are like, I'm in on St. Your Book. I'm like, welcome. You can go in the back row. I'm in the front row here. Yeah. I love her forever. I'm a Julia Roberts lifer and the idea that somebody was trying to like,

that we needed another one of those was just too much. I wish we had more. Counter. I agree. I wish we had five more of them. But who worked out? Like, Julia Ormond, with all due respect to Julia Ormond, that was not a thing, but they wanted it to be.

It's funny how many people, like Catherine Hegel is a good one. Oh, yeah. They're like, all right, you're next. They are still looking for the next Julia Roberts, Bill. Reese was the other one who was kind of groomed lottery pick style to like someday. you will walk this hallowed ground of Julia and Sandra. And then she did it. Yeah.

Well, but she figured out a way, there's a problem is that, and Sandra Bullock, the reason that, that she won me over was that she couldn't keep doing these kind of like mildly salty, cutesy things.

She had to figure out a way to be dourer. Her comedic persona was really interesting, right? And really, worked, I would say even better for rom-coms than Julia. Yes. Because Julia, once she got too famous, I felt like she lost that a tiny bit.

Well, once she's playing a movie star in a romantic comedy, she just became too famous. Notting Hill was the beginning of that. And American's sweethearts did not help. Sandra Bullock was very approachably hot. Like you feel like, I always felt like if I met, like in the 90s, it was like, if I met Sandra Bullock, I would take my shot. Julia had no chance. Who's talking to her?

But the thing about, the other thing about Sandra Bullock was she figured out a way to take not wanting to seem like she wanted it and turn that and to use that in the movies. Like this congeniality is about a person who does not like being

congenial. Right. Right. It is anti-romantic comedy energy that creates the tension in the genre itself. Well, you know what she also did? What? This is how we know she was a special actor. She pulled off, I'm in this movie by myself for large periods of time. Yes.

It's like kind of the last part of the video game. But that comes, like, that's an end. That's like, I mean, not at the end. She's not at the end of her career, but like, third decade. That was, she had been around for so long and yet found this other thing to do. She's in that fucking weird Netflix movie. What's the movie where nobody can talk?

Birdbox. Yeah. That was like the fourth decade. Listen. She's, she's good. Yep. I'm glad you finally relented. I, you can't, like. I'm glad you gave in.

I can't, I gave in. She won me over. I'm rarely, I'm rarely, I'd, I'm just. so happy I had season tickets for the whole ride. Me and Sandy. Just taking a ride through the 90s and 2000s. She also just seems like a decent person. 100%.

And I think that is the other thing that comes through. And she's just also the other thing, just last thing. She is really good with other people. Yeah. Her and Clooney at the beginning of gravity. She and Melissa McCarthy in the heat. Like, I would watch the two of them do... The heat's a good movie.

Yeah. They are so good to be. together. We had this photographer that we used when our kids were little in the late 2000s. And the photographer, like a couple years later, just started dating Sandra Bullock. And he was like a non-famous person. And my wife was like, you're not going to believe who, I forget his name is dating. I'm like, who? She's like, Sandra Bullock. I'm like, what? But it was like that goes back to the Sandra Bullock thing. She just found this normal dude who but it was a photographer.

They started dating. She just, she's really... Great job. We did a great job. Sandra, I hope you enjoyed it. Ashley Judd, I'm going to say no on Apex Mountain. I have to go Double Jeopardy. No, yeah, double Jeopardy.

I love Double Jeopardy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, she's an interesting person. Do you think Double Jeopardy is a rewatchable's movie? Oh, 100%. Okay, good. It's got the blood boil. It's anything with a plot that boils that makes you mad on behalf of the star?

I can watch that. With the writer strike, when they're like, we're worried about AI, it's like, you should be worried because they can just take double jeopardy and have to spit into the AI engine and make that movie 20 different times, right? A person, betrayed by somebody, rock bottom,

fights back. Now at the end, they're going to get their revenge on the person. Can I just say one thing before we go back to this AI because I'm with you? The problem with this movie, a time to kill, is that my blood, is never boiling on behalf of the Samuel L. Jackson character.

Right. Right. It's not the plot that's making me mad. It's the movie's in attention to his plight that is upsetting me. That's a good call. Right? It's just as the movie doesn't know what it's actually about. Or what it's actually about is a problem for me.

Maybe it does know. It's about Matthew McConae and not Sam Jackson. Apex Mountain for Nikki Cat villains. Would you go with this or dazed and confused? when he beats the shit out of Adam Goldberg. It's probably this. What are you looking at? You can't do better than a redneck racist

who only has five minutes of screen time. Yeah, fine. Apex Mountain for green early 1960s porches. I'm still going Dillon McKay. I mean, that thing was in like five seasons in 902 and O. I got some news for you, though. What? I'm a sob person.

Yeah? And you give me a sob and a movie. You like cars that just break down? I was a sob owner. for five, six years. So you knew all the sob shops of the area after I kept breaking it down. Derek on Atlanta Avenue fixed my sob until I had to give it away. Do they even make sobs anymore?

No, they don't. Yeah, because they kept fucking breaking down. I don't think that's the reason they don't exist, Bill. They're terrible cars. RIP, my sob. SE 9,000. Best racehorse name. I don't have one from this movie.

I think it would be weird to have a racehorse named after anything from this movie. Picky Nets. Judge Noose? Judge News is a good horse, isn't Judge News not winning the Belmont Stakes? Judge News is good. Picking Nits.

I can't believe we didn't get to this yet. So he's innocent? Wouldn't it be guilty by or... How do we get innocent out of this? No, because I don't understand. It's funny, I almost called a lawyer friend of mine on the way over here to just run this plot.

You can't be innocent. Right. I don't know what John Grisham would say about the jurist, the sort of legal explanation for how this happens. But as a testament to how satisfying it is that he does get off. Yeah. You don't really think about it unless you're probably a lawyer, right? I didn't think about it until I read the Roger Eber review. Right.

Ebert mentions it. I'm like, oh shit, yeah. That is weird. It seems impossible. Yeah. Like as an adult watching this movie, I'm like, what is the defense here? That just, hey, jury, imagine, just forget that this is a black person who did this. Yeah.

Just imagine your white ass. So basically saying, the jury's basically saying, you know what, we're not going to judge here. He's innocent. It's just, it's such a weird. It's so weird. But also, but, you know, morally, I wrote in my notebook actually, I wrote in all caps, we need these mutants. We need these courtroom movies

in part because they're the only they're one of the only ways to really understand who we are and how we are and who we aspire to be. 100% agree. And for everything that I hate about this movie,

it is such a useful window into the ways that a lot of American people think about empathy and how empathy works, right? Of course the verdict ultimately makes no sense. But it is a verdict on a particular kind of...

We know the jury is racist, right? Because we see them go to dinner a couple of times. And they're all... The foreman... The foreman guy is just super racist. Straight up in-word, right? And, you know, I don't think everybody else is that far away from him. He's just the most extreme.

Yeah. But the idea, the thing that's supposed to move a white audience, and maybe some other people were convinced by this too, the idea that just being able to imagine a black person doing anything. I never thought of this way. I just never thought about myself as identifying in any way with a situation involving a black person. But here I am, thanks to Jake Brighan.

And he's a great lawyer. And Jake's crying? Yeah, oh yeah. More picky nits. I still don't know where Roar came from and why she chose this case. to drive to Mississippi or green Porsche, which probably broke down seven times. Bagger bands is really funny, Bill.

Thank you. How about this? A white guy named Rufus? I'm not buying it. Although Rufus has ever been a white Rufus? There's Rufus Chaka Kana Rufi. I mean, like, the band, I mean, look, the band, whatever.

I'm going to get into Shok Kana Rufus. But like, there can be, there are white people around Rufus Nish. It's not like, it can't happen. Well, as you know, I named my dog. my golden retriever, Rufus, my favorite dog I've ever had. And part of the reason was it was so funny that it would be a gold retriever named Rufus. And we called him Roo, and it became, he had nine nicknames off of it.

I got to actually look up and see all the people in Rufus the band. But anyway, like Rufus, yes, nobody, I don't, I'm trying to think of a white Rufus. And I'm sure there's one out there. I don't know who he is. Another picking it. No opening trial remarks. Well, I like my courtroom movies. I like when the lawyers set the stage in 90 seconds.

We did just jump in there. Yeah, we're just standing. I just like, ladies gentlemen of the jury, we're here today. Just give me that. Instead of like the seventh Donaldson. But you know, I think it's so obvious. Like one thing about screenwriting here, I think it's pretty obvious what the stakes are. Like, you don't need anything laid out for us, right?

We know that Carly killed these two men. I don't think there's anything really you need to do in terms of framing. I still like it. last one I have is Sandra Bullock smoking We're in an incredible run We're in an incredible run of Because we did Laura Linney and Pram O'Ferrars another one She just had the cigarette out

Yeah And they just throw this in to make the The female character seem kind of like a badass Like oh she's smoking Yeah I think Are men supposed to find that sexy? Not if they're not smoking Or no how to smoke

You know who finds it sexy is Chris Ryan He's a fucking pervert about it I don't know if you knew this. Even when they can't smoke. No, he likes when they can smoke. Like Edy Falco and Copeland. Oh, yes. He's like still talking about it.

Yeah, I mean, there are some people. I don't like when they can't smoke when it's just obvious. Nobody takes a drag. Somebody was smoking. I saw some good smoking in a movie really recently. And I was just like, that person's a smoker. This would have been the blog I had if I was just like a, like just doing a blog that was never going to make money.

Who's a good smoker? No, just smoking in movies. Just like with a rating system. I mean, toothbrushing. De Niro's like a tan and goodfellas. Like, that's everything. Everything ends with De Niro. He's the highest you can go.

You know, secretly a good smoker. John Chavolton. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if he was actually a smoker. No, he's a good one. He smokes like a smoker. I also like, I've talked about this before,

but when people don't know how to drink beer in movies is my other favorite. Vin Diesel with the. cranks it, he drinks beer like this, like he tilts it to 6 o'clock, and Cruz is the other one. Cruz, Cruz handles a beer like it's like a nuclear weapon. He smokes in the color of money and you don't believe it. No.

Toothrushing is another interesting one. Nobody in the movies knows how to brush teeth. Because often when you're brushing teeth, you're also doing dialogue so you can't have the toothpaste. Right. It's just then don't have the toothbrushing scene. but so many people are brushing their teeth in the movies and I just never believe it ever

I was with some friends this week and somebody was saying how their sister doesn't like seeing somebody else brushed her teeth and in life just in life it's like fucking grosses her out she hates it she's disgusted by it don't brush her teeth around her and I was like

this is the most fascinating thing I've ever heard can we go to therapy together because I really want to hear. Oh, interesting. That's a Hitchcock. That's a Hitchcock for sure. Any picking nits for you? Oh, my God.

I mean... Did we hit everything? I mean, probably, but I just want to say like, okay, let's say that you are defending me for murder. Yeah. And while I'm sitting in prison and you're defending me, I don't know why it's the other way around, but you're married and I'm not.

So this is where this is going. And, you know, some, you know, your, you're, your sexy assistant in town. Yeah. You all go out and not eat craw dads together. Yeah. Then you drive drunk back to her motel.

Oh, I forgot about that picking, yeah. The drunk driving. Back to her motel, y'all sit on the bed together. All, the only reason y'all are doing this from a screenplay standpoint is so somebody can blow up your house.

Yeah. The house blows up, but at no point in the middle of your, like, collapsed marriage. This isn't some like crappy little house. This is a grand southern manse just about.

It's gone. Is Ashley Judd not just the least little bit like what did you do? Why are you doing this? I'm pretty sure she comes back that day. She just shows up in a dream like it's a dream in his office.

It doesn't make any sense. You need the scene where she's like, okay. She's walking around the record. You got to tell me what's going on right now. Yeah. Because now we're homeless. Also, would he drunk drive if he got arrested,

they would have thrown him in jail for like five years to fuck up the case, right? Yeah. And all Sandra Bullock does is drive while being female when she gets beat up. Right. Right? It's whatever. All right. Sequel prequel prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

Prestige is interesting. But apparently there's a sequel in the research. Oh. What? There was a book published in 2020. 20. Like a fan? A Grisham book called A Time for Mercy.

Oh, yeah. About Jake Brighance. And McConaughey signed on. And it's in development at HBO. And that's all I know. But he's playing Jake now. Isn't that like... The big twist is Jake has more hair now.

That's what the movie's about. It happens to the best of this. It's not even a case. But yeah, I don't know how that's going. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trao, Catherine Hans, Steve Bouchemy, Sam Jackson, J.T. Walsh. or Philip Baker Hall.

Sam Jackson's in the movie. How is J.T. Walsh not in this movie. Yeah, he could, he was probably runner up for Judge News. Yeah. If they wanted to get younger. Yeah, I mean,

how is he not in this movie? Probably in answerable questions. Is Kiefer Sutheran a better bad guy or a better good guy? When was he ever a good guy? Jack Bauer, 24. Iconic 2000s TV show. Does he not count as an anti-hero in some way? Nothing anti-heroic about him?

Kiefer Sutherland, better bad guy or better anti-hero? He's better anti-hero. He's not, he doesn't, the thing about Kiefer Sutherland is you just want to punch him as a bad guy. You're not scared of him. He just seems like a, like a, like a brat. I love him as Kendrick. Yeah, that's fair. When Jessup makes the joke about, about how he, how nothing's better than being blown by your superior problem for me.

They have to elect some girl president. And you just hear Kendrick going, he's just an evil laugh. I love Kendrick. Oh, here's a great unanswerable question. Most loathsome, despicable Kurtwood Smith character ever. The head of the KKK in this movie, or Neil's dad in Dead Poets Society.

Ooh. Neil! My son! Neil! Oh my God. There is a worse part than him as the Grand Wizard Dragon. I think Neil's dad is a worst person. Although, I got to tell you,

my least favorite Kurt Wood Smith performance is not in the time to kill and it's not in school ties or dead poet society. What is it? It's a robocop. Another good one. There's something about

that head and that diction. He's trying to like punch up. You just really want to, I mean, he makes you so mad. Just let Neil act. He loves acting. He just, he's the perfect bad everything. make him the Grand Wizard,

make him the like... It's great. Yeah. Be a good commissioner. Good sports commissioner. Good, good... Oh. Just one Oscar.

Who gets it? McConaughey. Probably. Would you go Sam Jackson? Sam Jackson. Like, best supporting for Sam? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's like a no-brainer. You wouldn't even have to win. Yeah. Best double feature choice with this movie. Oh, I mean... Green Book? Ooh. You know, you know,

I thought about Green Book. That's a good one. What was that three Mississippi? What was that Francis McDormor movie? Oh, three billboards outside? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was actually thinking to kill a mockingbird. Oh, okay. That's good. I like that. You do that first on this. Yeah.

The Indian Red Soot-Nay Award for what happened the next day. Do Jake and Carl ever see each other again after the barbecue? You think they're just hanging out watching football on a Sunday? Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's it. Jake made his one tour. He drove that sob up to that house. That was it. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

Clearly, the green Porsche. The sob. I want the sob. You like the sob. I want the sob. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. I just wrote white people in exclamation points. I don't know what the life lesson was of this movie.

That's just it. It's okay to kill your family's rapist? I mean, white people's a great one because, I mean, as I said, the point, this movie it's not the thing about this movie that's kind of exasperating because it is entertaining it is very watchable it is very rewatchable

is that it's hard to watch it as a black person and be like I'm glad they did that right but there's so many white people who could leave this movie and be like yes that's it that is what justice looks like that's what it should look like

there's no there's no happy ending for any black person It ends at a barbecue and everybody's celebrating, but what do they really celebrate, right? This guy isn't going to prison somehow because he figured out that the best way to beat racism is to use racism to your advantage, right?

It's just a wild, kind of depressing lesson to learn. I forgot to do this in picking Nits when he gets Carl off. Carl's super happy, and he says to Jake, thanks. And Jake gets kind of pissy, And he's like, well, I'm just one of the bad people. And he walks off. It's like, what the fuck? Yeah.

Huge problem. Because you just gave one of the most moving, convincing, like, emotionally transparent. So now it's just like, I got it. I had to do what I did to win the trial. I'm just one of the bad people. The thing you say when somebody says that to you, Jake Brants, is, you know what, Carl? I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry this happened to you.

You were right. I was one of the bad guys. I'm just living it day by day, Carl. That's it. I'm living it day by day. Thank you for making me think. No, he doesn't do any of that. No. Who won the movie for you?

It's got to be McConaughey, right? It's Matthew McConaughey. I mean, where do he come from? He came from nowhere. Yeah. I mean, nobody had ever seen him before. That's what's crazy about this era where we have that. We have Primal Fair, which we just did.

We had the Goodwill Hunting guys the next year. Ben Affleck are coming. Decaprey. come out of nowhere. Decaprio, who we knew, but there's a lot of either come out of nowhere or elevate to some level that, whoa, that happened. And that's kind of the mid-90s. But that did not happen. Oh, Vince Vaughn was another one from the young white guys group that we forgot about. Who really would have been like in the, I mean, but they would have been like, if we can't get these other four people, we'll call Vince Vaughn. Don't you wish we could time

machine like three of those people to now? Oh my God. I think about this all the time. From that whole class. We wait. There's so much waste. Randall Battencuff. Come on.

Oh, come on. Come on to 2023. Yeah, I mean, I have a prestige TV show for you. I mean, Brendan Fraser, Chris O'Donnell. Chris O'Donnell's another one we didn't mention. I mean, there's so many. I should have written that list down.

I mean, I mean, I, you know, I mean, there's so many people who would do well now who they just, there was just no room, right? Like, I mean, if you want to think about... On the flip side, the non-white, like that group has gotten way bigger and is way more involved than it was in the 90s. Now they don't have the parts, right? The problem with the 80s and 90s was that there were too many people and there were a ton of parts.

But at least they'll throw them into parts that would have gone to the white people before. Now it's the opposite where there are all these great actors. Yeah. And there are nothing to nothing from there to do. All these great actors from Britain. All right, this podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Kyle. Who, I hope you enjoyed your little tour in the place of Craig, who's getting married.

Oh, my God. It's just the season. Yeah, it's married season. We're going to be back on courtroom. Wesley's going to join us for two more. I won't say what they are, although we kind of spoiled one of them. You don't have to say it. You're out of order.

Soul court's out of order. We'll be doing that one. Wesley, good to see you. Nice to see you.